|
"THEY SAID IT" ARCHIVES
OCT-DEC, 1998
| DATE |
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| 12/31 |
My apologies to those trying to download the Vale IHC bulletin, there
was an error in the link. It has been corrected. Ab |
| 12/31 |
I am wondering where I can find out about internships in forest
firefighting.
If you ahve any suggestions, please let me know. I am looking for my
cousin
who is really interested in this and would love to come out to Colorado
where
I live and see if that is what he would really want to do with the
rest of
his life. I would really appreciate the information.
Thanks,
Jennifer Roper
As far as I know, we don't have any in my part of the country
(R-5). Readers? Ab. |
| 12/31 |
one of the ways to fight these kinds of fires is to have a preplan. how
to start the ball rolling on this is the question.i know LA county uses
them.information on how to create a plan will help.if a format is
available please include it.i have some ideas but i dont like to reinvent
the wheel!
thanks WTFD
NJFFS |
| 12/31 |
AB,
ATTACHED YOU WILL FIND SEASONAL HIRING INFORMATION FOR THE VALE HOTSHOTS
.PLEASE POST THIS INFO WITHIN YOUR SITE.
THANKS,
LANCE
Done. Ab |
| 12/29 |
A new fire simulation program added to the Programs page and a new
training link. Ab |
| 12/29 |
right on, Grim
Fires, floods, & earthquakes. Excluding arson these three events
are normally natural occurances. We know they will happen, we know
sometimes there will be really bad ones, and we have the knowlege and
ability to either prevent many of them or at least minimize the loss of
life or property from them. Along with Ab, I used to think after
each fire that burned a lot of houses that next year there would be more
money to hire more crews and engines to help prevent the same thing over
again. Not any more. Cap'n |
| 12/29 |
Regarding Average Fire Seasons
Upon reflection, I find it astonishing to think a fire suppression budget
can be based on an
AVERAGE year. Can you imagine the indignation and outrage from
taxpayers living in flood
prone areas such as the Ohio or Sacramento Valleys were their dams and
levees built to
withstand AVERAGE rainfall years? Should we reduce earthquake
tolerance levels for
freeways and buildings constructed around the fault lines to merely
withstand an AVERAGE
earthquake? I don't think so. I like to think of properly
staffed, well equipped fire suppression
resources as insurance. You have to pay for it, then hope you never
need it!
Although, with fire, you very well may.
Grim |
| 12/29 |
Ab, & Kelly
cant agree more...BUT..in the wimpy years there would be a lot of folks
and equipment doing nothing..the biggest task, especially in the wimpy
years is burn, burn, burn! ..I also like the way at least some of the
canadian folks do it. They have their fire personnel work maint in
their parks. Seems like the NPS is always griping about how their
properties are withering on the vine because of no funds for maint.
This may be at least a partial answer. I know it wouldnt work
everywhere, and of course in the bad years nothin would get done but at
least its a start.
In the interface issue, we started a program locally a few years ago
that has helped somewhat in encouraging land owners to improve the
survivability of their property..or at least put a bigger impression in
their minds of the possible danger they are in. But the main reason and
most importantly its gives the F.D.s a little added safety feature.
What we did was mark each address at the entrance of the driveway (on
their adress sign) with a color code. Orange means there is a fuel
problem, yellow means poor access (narrow driveway or no turn around) and
white means the address means it was inspected and didnt warrant orange or
yellow. Its not a perfect system, and you still have to
base actions on a structure on where it is on the fire, what the fire is
doing and other variables but it does give the firefighter a head start.
Jim
Good thoughts Jim, thanks. Ab |
| 12/28 |
Hi Ab,
What's up with the FWFSA web page? Have they packed it in?
Nuthin's changed on it for months.
Bear
Search me, they've never answered any of my mail since they began
their page. Readers? Ab. |
| 12/28 |
Dec.28, 1998
Hello-
I am a photojournalist by trade and an American by birth but am
currently living in Budapest, Hungary. This christmas my sisters
came to visit and the eternal question was raised, "What would make a
good story?" Smokejumpers was the top choice.
I have the adresses of 6 USA bases, but no human contacts. I will
be writing in the next few days with a proposal to come and document the
training that occours in June and then staying on for a few weeks to shoot
a fire or two, if I can. I have a personal interest in the lives of
htese people as I use to work as a Mountaineer and was called in to help
mop up once,plus Idateda woman who went on to be in the fire fighting
scence. Anyway...
It will be a brilliant story that my agent in Paris thought would be a
hit also. If you have any imput or could recommend a person to
contact or point me in the right direction I would be ever so
grateful.
Thank you and happy new year,
mailto:fmattox@hotmail.com
Fielder Mattox
Hello Fielder,
Kellemes Karacsonyi unnepeket.
It's been done a few times already, (PBS tv,
National Geographic, etc.) but I suppose another smokejumper story
wouldn't hurt. For general public mass consumption there doesn't
seem to be anything more exciting than jumping out of an airplane into
raging inferno. However, reality (from my observations) dictates the
fires smokejumpers are selected for dispatch to are usually very high
elevation, roadless areas, and the fires are usually smoldering and
creeping instead of raging. I don't have a National Mob Guide here
with me, I'll get one and email some contacts direct. Ab's burning
up some annual leave so it will be about a week unless some of the readers
respond here. There is also a recruitment advertisement for the
Redding smokejumpers on the links page under JOBS on this site that has a
phone number and name.
If I possessed the time and talent, I would
find a very active, hot engine and follow them around for an entire
summer. I'd make sure there was at least one first year crewmember,
provide the background on where they are from, why they are there, what
they want to accomplish, etc. I'd love to see captured on film, the
wide-eyed wonder of a first year crewmember attacking their first escaping
fire. The first few moments of pure awe and panic as they totally
forget all their training and everything the've learned, then their sudden
confidence and determination as the captain barks commands and the good
training takes over. I don't know that you, or they, would be able
to communicate their emotions and how they feel after a successful attack
on a potential major rager, but it's an extreme emotional high. . . and
it's very addicting. It keeps 'em coming back year after year
for another dose, even though the pay and benefits are marginal and there
is little chance of advancement or career opportunities. You'd see
more action, flames, tension, and excitement in a couple of weeks than you
would following what is essentially a rapid response handcrew around for a
year. You'd also find access to the actual fire scenes more easily
obtainable.
No offense meant jumper dudes, Ab loves and
respects you all (and I know you remember your first hot initial attack
with a hose), but I think the limelight needs to be spread around a bit
more. Hope I didn't insult your mother or anything with that first
sentence Fielder, it's supposed to say Season's Greetings in
Hungarian! Ab |
| 12/27 |
Hey Ab,
I enjoyed your sermon about politics and the funding of fire. Very well
done, and right on.
A couple of years ago, Jack Ward Thomas was telling me about how the
budgets for fire are put together. Picture a bar chart for the last
couple-few decades. If you look at numbers of acres burned per year and
suppression costs per year, you'll see the really small years and the
really nastybad years (and as you pointed out, the nastybad years have
gotten bigger and more frequent). If you draw a line across that bar
chart that tracks the AVERAGE for suppression costs over time, you'll
find that it's real close to the budget. That's how fire's budgeted -
for the AVERAGE over time.
It's not rocket science to then conclude that we're dismally unprepared
for the nastybad years. If you then factor in the dramatic loss in the
last few years of many very well-trained and highly experienced longtime
fire dogs, you'll get that UH-OH feeling. Factor in the dramatic
increase in wildland/urban interface, and the UH-OH feeling turns into
the OH SHIT feeling.
Now here's a novel thought - Jack Thomas said he thought we ought to
budget differently for fire. He thought we ought to ratchet the budget
level up to that of the nastybad years, and call THAT the budget for
fire, rather than using the average.
And what would we do with all that extra money if it turned out to be a
slow year in fire? Spend it, that's what. Thinning, fuels reduction,
RxFire, training, brush piling, fire prevention projects, fuel breaks,
more seasonals hired on as perms - you get the idea. If we're not
spending it on suppression, but we are spending it on prevention and
fire MANAGEMENT, then over time we should have fewer disastrous fires
and a reduced cost for loss of life and property and natural
resources.
This is part of what Jack Thomas was talking about when he said we
should be moving the USFS from a fire SUPPRESSION agency toward a fire
MANAGEMENT agency.
Jack's not the chief anymore, but there *is* a movement afoot in R5
along these lines. It's going to take some major support, though, from
people like you who understand the realities of wildland fire. Stay
tuned ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kelly Andersson
Your first point is a good one I neglected to mention Kelly.
The budget options are developed by analyzing historical fire data
over a selected ten year period. With that said, I repeat, our
current allocated budget remains at -55% of the most effective level of
staffing and resources necessary to effectively suppress the determined
number and sizes of fires in an average year . Ab |
| 12/27 |
HA! aint the goverment grand! ..Im still waiting for that pendulum to
start swinging back the other way too. Heres another good one...
After our last major interface fire incident the state and several
individuals were sued by some landowners..the judge threw out the case
aginst the state and its employees because we had a "fire prone
property inspection program" and we documented that we had inspected
these individuals property and warned them of the fire problems and what
they could do to help(of course they had done nothing to improve their
property). ...Several years later guess what state program was
cut........yup!
Jim Gobel
This is one of several issues I skimmed over in my
diatribe yesterday. The urban-wildland interface problem is and will
continue to grow as a key development. The worst issue is that we
were better equipped to deal with the encroachment fifteen-twenty years
ago than we are now in both the prevention and suppression
departments. We've allowed this expansion which demands additional
not less protection.
Our prevention personnel used to make annual on-site
inspections of all private property dwellings within the forest.
Since they have also suffered radical cuts there aren't enough of them to
continue these inspections. Now there is an annual reminder
mailed each spring to the homeowners to conduct their own
inspections. This hardly promotes the same awareness or
effectiveness. In the past, citations were issued to homeowners who
were slow in complying with a the inspections. Now the first initial
attack engine responding up a one-way road to a reported fire may be the
first to discover they've wasted valuable time on a structure they will be
unable to save. Course the government is covered, after all, they
did mail out those reminders! Ab |
| 12/26 |
My son is almost 17. He is extremely interested in becoming a
forest
firefighter. His uncles used to do it every summer in the
mid-sixties
in Northern California. He has always been intrigued by their
stories,
which were never glamorous. He plans to enter Job Corps in the near
future and would like any input that the an experienced firefighter
could give. The focus on training that he plans to choose is WEMT/EMT
and firefighting. Do you know of the Job Corps programs? If
so, what
do you think of them? We live in Oregon, so the Job Corps camp he
would
be at is Wolf Creek, located in Glide, Oregon. We would appreciate
any
input that you or your buddies could give.
Thank you,
Regards,
Lloydene Hill
I know nothing about the Job Corps. . . readers? Ab. |
| 12/26 |
I am former Forestry Aid/firefighter, who got his start at Trapper CK
Job
Corps in the Bitterroot National Forest, where I got some forestry
training and served as a AD-2 firefighter and fought fires in Montana,
Utah
and Idaho, Then I moved on to the Ahraphoe National Forest,
Sulphur
Ranger District. That year (1997) the fire season in Colorado was
dead. I
went out on three fires on my district, none of them were more that 2
arces, nothing seem to burn that year. I took a year off (1998) and
did
other things. I moved down to florida and I am looking for something
for
the 1999 season with the FS, or NPS, or the FWS
PS What do think of the "Pack Test"? I have only
taken the Step Test, but
I think that the Pack test is better test of your fitiness.
Plus when is the goverment going to realize that if you keep cutting
the
budget and getting rid of us seasonals, you are not going to have anyone
left to fight the fires. Love you web page!!!!
Check our links page for agencies contact
points in your area. Check the archives for past comments on the
pack test. As for budgets being cut, that's a question previously
untouched here and I think you just pushed a button!
I remember after one year of dramatic cuts on
my forest in the mid eighties, there was a specific engine that was
cut. Later that year, virtually across the street from where the
engine had been based, a fire was started by a private wood-cutter.
Had the engine still been there it is a certainty the fire would have been
caught at less than a quarter acre. Without that engine, the first
arriving engine was thirty minutes away. End result? 650 acres
burned, 3.5 million $$ suppression cost, heavy timber loss, and extensive
watershed damage. The suppression cost alone would have funded that
missing engine for about 18 years (including inflation costs). I was
positive this example would have dynamic and far reaching effects, how
naive I was. End result? Two more engines and an initial
attack hand crew cut the next year.
Currently, the USFS budget is determined
through a complex analysis using historical fire occurrence data,
suppression costs, net value resource costs and how they are affected by
various budget levels. By applying computerized modeling, the most
effective level (amount/type) of suppression resources can be
(theoretically) determined. The resulting data is collected region
wide, nationally, and eventually is presented to Congress. In their
infinite wisdom, Congress selects the amount of money the Forest Service
will actually receive. My current forest's budget is approximately
55% UNDER the determined most effective level. What this seems to
mean is that Congress looks at the data showing how many acres will be
burned, what the costs will be under the various scenarios and determines
an arbitrary value of "acceptable loss".
The current budget at the aforementioned -55%
is hovering a mere few percentage points above a pure, consistent disaster
level. I live in a suburban-wildland fire interface within a Forest
boundary and get a little hot when I think of my home and family being
considered an "acceptable loss". Only God knows when or
what will make Congress blink as they continue to raise the stakes while
they gamble against the hot hand of disastrous fire occurrence.
Without taking a lot of time here to describe
the details, I will tell you that I have had the privilege to fight three
of the top ten disastrous fires in California history. On each of
these fires, along with several others, I was in a position to decide
which homes we would try and save and which homes would be ignored or
left to burn. I have been hugged, kissed, and given cards or
letters of appreciation. I have also been screamed at, cursed in
public, and vilified in the media. I have shouted at the gods with
victorious exhalation, but have had tears roll down my face from sadness,
anger, frustration, and waste.
To be fair, perhaps a couple of times it
wouldn't have mattered how many resources were instantly available. . .
we'll never know. However, more often than not, there just weren't
enough initial attack resources left to provide an appropriate response
necessary to protect against the tragic loss of human lives and
property. I ask you, why have over 70% of the most disastrous fires
(I'm talking life and property damage) in California history occurred in
the last fifteen years when we have made so much advancement in other
social and scientific areas? Is it really the suburban encroachment
into the wildland interface?
What a coincidence these monster, home
destroying fires frequency began rising at the same time the USFS budgets
began falling. When the District I was on back in 1978 was force to
cut an engine due to a budget deficit and I expressed my worry to my FMO
about the lack of reinforcements, he told me to relax. "Don't
worry", he said, "it's just politics. The pendulum is
swinging away from us now, in another year or so it will swing
back". How wrong he was. Our initial attack suppression
resources available at that time have been cut over 85%. Our militia
(non-initial attack fire personnel) upon whom we have been able to rely on
in the past to perform vital support and logistics functions have been cut
even more.
Perhaps Congress is convinced that these type
of disastrous fires are unavoidable, that they are as much a natural
occurrence as earthquakes, floods, and hurricanes. Statistics show
otherwise. An aggressive prevention program combined with
sufficient, well trained, well equipped suppression resources can have,
and historically have had a great impact preventing disaster fires
before they begin.
It's politics, pure and simple. Any more
questions? Abercrombie |
| 12/23 |
For folks looking for fire course training available nationwide.
This is another route to the link found yesterday.
http://fire.nifc.nps.gov/ go to
Fire Management on the left and then Training & Education on the
right. Ab |
| 12/23 |
To Stay at Home
Here's a couple more links with some addresses & phone numbers.
This is the BIA Home Page: http://fire.nifc.nps.gov/bia/default.htm
This is a list of Area Offices: http://www.doi.gov/bia/offices.html
Looks to me like they are just getting their web pages going.
Kurt
Thanks Kurt, these are much better than I was able to find last
night. I'll post them asap on the links page. Ab |
| 12/22 |
Hi Ab:
Trying to get information on
BIA FIRE, There is a posibility that I may be
working for them next Fire Season and I would like to know about there
Wildland Fire Program. I have searched the net and find nothing
relating
to fire, If any of your readers can forward me a net address of an E-Mail
address it would sure help.
Thanks
Stay at Home
I recall when I was trying to find a link to BIA firefighting I had
little luck, also had no luck tonight. However, since the BIA fire
dispatch is usually closely associated with the US Forest Service
dispatching offices I would look up the closest national forest to you and
give them a call. Good luck, and let us know if you find any good
links. Any help readers? Abercrombie |
| 12/22 |
Iam looking for any information on the CPS SYSTEM (Campbell Fire
Prediction System). Would like to find anyone
who has used the system in a wildland or prescribed fire. Interested on
the
results or failures. I recently completed the 40 hr Train the Trainer at
Asilomar and have began to research actual usage of the system. Any
information would be appreciated. I can be reached at DE4Fire@
AOL. Thank you
I wasn't able to find to much on the net cept for http://www.dougsfire.com/
you've probably found that already. Try MetaCrawler http://www.go2net.com/search.html
or Hotbot http://www.hotbot.com/
for some serious searching. Ab |
| 12/22 |
i work part time for the nj forestfire sevice. im also a battalion chief
for
the waterford twp fire dept.i think that theres not enough training in
interface training.where can i get more info other than the s-205 course?
any
help would be
great!
thank you bc gary davis
wtfd gary1130@aol.com
There aren't many there yet, but check our Link's page and try the
community colleges around your area. Also try the larger fire
departments in your area and the closest National Forest. I just
found this link while investigating another question, it's a big list of
Fire & Aviation Management Classes being held around the US http://fire.nifc.nps.gov/sacs/html/training.html
Ab |
| 12/15 |
Hi there,
I have a couple of engine pics I'm sending that are a little
out of
the ordinary as it were. One is a pair of brand new engines from the
Buffalo Creek Work Center in Buffalo Creek, Colorado. The other is an
Army Hummer from Fort Carson, CO. I'm a wildland firefighter for the
Pike National Forest and our local county crew. I also do freelance
photography for 4 local newspapers and 3 TV stations, I thought you
might like these pictures.
I have about 5000 pics in my personal library, so if you'd
like a few
of anything from range fires to whatever, give me a yell!
Dave LaForest
FireRidge Wildland Fire Resources
Pike National Forest HotShots (Type 1)
http://www.pcisys.net/~fireridge/index.htm
Thanks for the pics Dave, I appreciate them and have posted them on
the "Guest" page. Also checked your site and added a link
from our "Links" page. . . looking good, Ab PS: I'll
always take more photos of 100+ft flame lengths! |
| 12/15 |
Hello!
I am just beginning work on a master's thesis studying accuracy in
media
reporting on wildland fire issues. My focus is on the reporting of
the
1998 season in Florida, but I'd like to see what any of you think about
the
issue... I've already heard from a lot of people on this issue, but I'd
love to hear more.
I'm especially interested in whether the media accurately report the
impacts people have on the severity or behaviour of fires, such as fire
exclusion from an area, growing urban interface areas with no fire
prevention strategies, and so on... my theory is that if the media report
all fires as "acts of God" or events that we have no impact on,
then people
will not be encouraged to take fire prevention measures to to use tested
and researched fire management practices. Also, if anyone has any
research
or case studies that show the effects of fire exclusion or the use of
prescribed fire (or other strategies) for fire prevention (especially in
the South), I'd love to hear about it (I've already got a big stack of
research to go through, but I could always use some more).
You can post a note here, or write me at rochelle@iastate.edu
Thanks! |
| 12/15 |
To Matt Kelley--
For most fire jobs, there are three options for an application
format. The
SF 171 is a long and tortuous form and a major pain to fill out or make
changes to, although it is still widely used. The OF-612 is very
easy to
use, but might not be thorough enough to get a high rating if you've had a
wide variety of employment experiences (my opinion). The third
option is
to follow Optional Form 510. It is an outline of what should be
included
on your "resume", but it leaves the format up to you. The
advantage is
that you can do it on your computer with whatever word-processing software
you have (which is much easier and more trustworthy, in my opinion, than
using the government's online stuff), and update it and change it very
easily and often. Also, using this format makes it easy to add KSAs
or
KASOCs to your application when they are required.
You can get the OPM form 510 at federal employment centers and so on or by
calling the OPM. The requirements listed on form 510 though are also
often
in the job announcement itself... in the section that says "the
following
information must be included in your application..." Hope this
is helpful--
--rochelle@iastate.edu
And ya can get OF-162 & OF-510 from here http://www.opm.gov/forms/html/of.htm
Ab |
| 12/14 |
Dear MR or HIS .
I would like to know if you could help me to find some posters of
some
forest fire . the reason for me asking you to help me is because i
have
a friend that has been in firefighting for about 20 years and i
think
that he has every thing, but know pictures and i thougt that it would
be
nice to have some . thay do not have to be free i am will to buy but , i
need to be pointed in the right direction
thank you
kevin
ps. could you e-mail me back please
Ab's not sure who this is addressed to, but let's help him
out. What the hell is a HIS? His'honor? Must be Ab! |
| 12/14 |
I have been working on my application for the coming season and was
looking
for a good format or program for building my resume. I was using OPM's
program but didn't like it all that much. any ideas?
Thanks Matt Kelley
Have you checked out the Programs page? While the Forest
Service now accepts applications in a variety of formats, the people
rating your application are probably still most familiar with the
171 form. In other words, they are most likely to rate you against
other applicants according to the 171 format whether you use it or
not. Might as well use it, I still do. Ab |
| 12/14 |
Well abercrombie, I'll bet you are surprised to see an e-mail from
me. It's probably been long over due. The site looks to be in
good shape and a lot of interest from quite a diverse group of
people. I'm sending some photos that I have. You can post them
if you'd like. I also have a suggestion, why not have an area,
like the Photo area, where people can post their crew, forest or
organizational logos? I'd like to see what other Forests, Districts,
crews etc... logos look like. I'll bet there are other people out
there that would like the same thing. I know the military has quite
a history surrounding their insignia's. Just a thought.
Take care, Cricket
Thanks for the pics Cricket! From your photos you've been in some
exciting places! I placed all your new photos, including the logos,
on the guest page for now. I think your idea for a logo page is a
good one and will consider it if there is more interest. I've seen
some great ones over the years and wouldn't mind having them all
here!. Ab. |
| 12/13 |
Here's the link to the Feds 1999 salries http://www.opm.gov/oca/99tables/GSannual/fsc/rusgsf.htm
, this for the "rest of the United States", if you are in a
special locality adjusted rate area go here http://www.opm.gov/oca/99tables/GSannual/INDEX.HTM
to find your area. Abercrombie |
| 12/13 |
I need some better information on long-term fire retardants, as to how
they
are used, if it is a good idea to use them, the procedures for creating,
storing, handling, and drop planning of these, and any adverse
environmental
effects that they may have. Specifically I am looking for better
info on
Fire-trol 931, but any long-term info will do. I need this in a
hurry as my
project is due Dec.15/98. If you could e-mail me I
would be most
appreciative. Also any contacts you could give
me or this to would be super. Thank you very much, Keith Oftebro.
<kso128@mail.usask.ca>
Try this page for information on a research station near you: http://www.fs.fed.us/links/research.shtml
Ab. |
| 12/11 |
Notes from Abercrombie:
I'm beginning to get
several emails each day asking "How do I get a seasonal firefighting
job, where do I call" type of letters. I won't be posting any
of them here, but I want those of you who are gearing up for your next
fire season to be aware it is happening. If you have a web site for
a specific fire fighting resource, send it in and I will add it to
the Links section under the Jobs heading. I'll probably also add a
Jobs link to the main page to insure the casual reader can easily find the
Jobs section.
There have also been
requests for training in various locations around the states. I and the
readers looking for help thank those of you who have
responded. I will continue to post the requests here and will
add an Education heading on the Links page. If you are responsible
for or know of any sites for your area please continue to send them
in. Abercrombie |
| 12/11 |
Hey Ab,
Just thought I would let all your readers (and yourself) know that the
Boise Interagency Hotshot Crew has been officially reinstated. The
Boise IHC will remain in Garden Valley, ID and maintain the name
"Boise". Eventhough rumors came out in Oct., nothing official
took
place till last week.
Currently, I am recruiting for Temporary Seasonals and up to six
detailer positions for people with career appointments. We'll
probably have about 8 seasonal positions depending on how much
interest we have in the detailer program.
We don't have a website yet, so people can contact me w/the info
provided below.
Thanks, RS
Randy Skelton
Asst. Supt. Boise IHC
208-462-3241
That's good news for the entire IHC program Randy! For all you
wanna-be hotshot types, if you're good enough, give Randy a call!
Randy, if ya want some help with a web site, email me. Ab |
| 12/10 |
Most of the fires in Virginia are out or contained by now. It
seems we had
arsonists who used the hunting season to blend in, now that most of
the
hunters have left, the fire starts are down, I hope we catch him. We
just
had some steady rain so that should help. I will give you more updates
next
week.
Whit
Thanks much Whit, we'll look forward to it. Ab |
| 12/10 |
My name is Randy Price. I am seraching for information on any
upcoming basic
wildland fire training (rural) in the southeast. I am currently an
urban
firefighter in South Carolina. Any information would be
helpful. Thanks.
Randy Price
James Island Fire Department |
| 12/08 |
Oddly enough I just found your page. I'm the wildland fire
coordinator
for a local community college in Bend, Oregon. I have finally setup
a
web page, we handle S- course training for the "East Slope Training
Committee" which is under the PNWCG.
We open our classes to ALL firefighters, but seat east slope members
first. We have students coming from all of oregon, washington,
california, idaho and even occassionaly montana. I won't BS you, we
do
have good training, but also one of the best ski hills around. Take
a
look at our page and if you think it's worth while making a link, go for
it.
http://www.cocc.edu/djohnson
Thanks Dick, I will. Ab |
| 12/08 |
I am glad I found your site. I am 19 and a wildland fire fighter
in
Virginia with the Forest Service. We just dealt with the Stony Lick
fire,
it was on my home district. Right now we are on standby. I plan to
visit
this site more.
Thanks,Whit
You're most welcome Whit, keep us up to date on your area, I think you
are the first I've heard from VA, but I'm having a harder time keeping
up. Ab |
| 12/08 |
. . . here is a better Engine picture than the one's you have on
your
site... if I do say so myself. Of course, don't get me wrong, I'm
not
being gung ho, by any means. Randy
Nice shot Randy. I'll put it on the guest photo page for
now. If you complete the Hot Engine Entry Form I'll be happy to
enter it into the contest. As of right now, you'd be in first
place. I actually think your engine would have a good chance of
winning at any rate (and your stats would be easy to track) ;-)
Abercrombie |
| 12/08 |
Abercrombie...here is a pic of a WI DNR "heavy unit" (engine
and tractor plow unit) ..if the attachment doesent work you can go to:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/4754/NewFile.html
and save em as well as read a little more about it.
Thanks Jim, nice pic, I'll post it on the guest photo page. Ab |
| 12/08 |
Anyone have the latest info. on the wildfires burning in the mountains
of Pennsylvania? If you do , could you give a update... the latest I
heard was as of Dec. 3 and the fire in Huntington County was at 1500
acres but have been unable to find out anymore..
Thanks..Michael Nelson |
| 12/08 |
I've been chatting with some folks about the apparent training
bottleneck in some areas that's caused by the difficulty in qualifying
hand crew firefighters as strike team leaders. It seems that the lack of
training assignments at the level of Strike Team Leader-Crew / Task
Force Leader (STCR/TFLD) is reducing the number of candidates for
division/group supervisor positions.
The USFS used to regularly dispatch crews as strike teams, which
allowed
STCR trainees to complete task books and become qualified. It's become
less common now to dispatch crews in this configuration, though the USFS
routinely fills orders for strike team leaders for engines. CDF uses the
STCR position with inmate crews, but their STCR positions are usually
filled by CDF personnel.
Is this an issue where you are? If so, how many qualified strike team
leader (crew) positions do you have? How many trainees? How many
division supes (qualified and trainee) and how many crew bosses
(qualified and trainee) ??
There's a proposal afoot to solve this problem, and I'm looking for
info
from other sources and areas about this issue. (Kelly) |
| 12/08 |
My brother goes every where fighting these fires they ship him out a
couple of
times a year. he has a large photo gallery of his own,but for christmas i
was
looking for an address of news article archives from the montana and idaho
fires around1987or 1988. I am putting together a scrap book for him. His
name is
Dave Karpovage from warren grove new jersey .The last fire he was at was
Dayton 2weeks then to new mexico .if anyone has info please email
jinxies301@aol.com I'm his sister
Hopefully some of our readers from those states can help you,
Abercrombie |
| 12/08 |
Great site Keep up the good work I fought some brushfires on Long Island
but now since moving to Md. its a new ball
game.
TRK1
Tell us more about it, Ab |
| 12/04 |
I'm looking for a list of National Forest websites, does anyone
have a list of links to National Forests. Any information would be
helpful in my job hunt, thanks Matt
Go directly to our links page, then to the USDA Forest Service page,
then click on their "Links" page at the bottom of the screen.
Abercrombie |
| 11/28 |
I am with a new firefighter magazine that is just
getting started. One of our sections is on wildfires
and we are looking for photos and stories to use. If
you are interested or know of someone who might be,
let me know.
Thank you
Scott Fitzgerald
American Firefighters Magazine
scottfitz@rocketmail.com |
| 11/28 |
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes the Texas Forest Service does
assist volunteer fire departments all over Texas with training needs. We
put on basic training at local departments and at regional schools. Also
their is an Interagency Wildland Fire Academy held each year that VFD
and paid departments can attend. This years academy will be held in
Lufkin and be in the middle of May. Fore more information on the Academy
an other training needs they can contact me at fire2boo@inu.net.
Thanks,
"Boo" |
| 11/22 |
I tried for years to get into wildland firefighting. Then I joined
the
Navy because they have the best firefighting training in the world.
Of
course, you're on a ship in the middle of nowhere. I've tried to
find
openings in Government and civilian fire agencies. I think my
biggest
drawback is that I don't have EMT or Paramedic certification. I have
CPR, but everyone should have that. I did get alot of shiboard
qualifications while I was in the Navy. They thought I was crazy,
because I liked it so much. I have had experience with real fires.
It's like being scared to death but an adrenalin rush you can't
believe. I LOVE IT. I would just like some info on how to get
a better
grip on the firefighting jobs. Especially the wildfire jobs.
The best
of both worlds. Being outside, and putting out fires. I live
in Reno,
Nv. which no one ever leave fire service until they retire. Thank
You,
Skip Baltar
Skip@cv-2.reno.nv.us
Skip, I'm not sure where you looked, but you live in or near the areas
covered by some of the largest wildland fire fighting organizations in the
world. Get your phone book out and call some of these offices to
find out when they are taking applications.
US Bureau of Land Management: Carson City District, Susanville
District
US Forest Service: Inyo National Forest, Tahoe National Forest,
Lassen National Forest, Stanislaus National Forest.
Nevada Division of Forestry
California Department of Fire & Fire Protection
I guarantee you all these folks are preparing for next fire season's
employment. Typical dates for applications are from Feb-April so
don't wait too long before inquiring. Ab. |
| 11/22 |
Hi
I just found your web page and haven't yet read it all, but I
think you can probably help me - or at least point me in the right
direction.
I am the training/safety officer for a small, very inexperienced
volunteer fire department in Texas. We cover a huge amount of
acerage - very rough terrain, lots of cedar trees and some hardwood -
mostly oak. Fortunately we don't have alot of fires.
Our department has just undergone a total house cleaning and I have
just rejoined after being out for about 2 years. None of the fire
fighters have a great deal of experience and I have only been in the fire
service about three yearss. I have been to several schools and have
learned much about fighting structure fire, but very little about wildland
fire fighting. Since most of our calls are for brush fires and such,
I would like to start training my fire fighters in fighting wildland
fires, but I can't very well train them until I learn something myself!!
Can you recommend books, magazines, schools, videos, webpages etc. that
I can get to help me get started? There are so many places on the
Web catalogs for training materials and such, but having a full time
job I just do not have the to sort through all of them for the best of the
best. And since I am starting basically from scratch on a self
education program, I would like to make sure the information I am getting
is correct.
Any assistance you can give me would be greatly
appreciated.
Thank you
Llana Dyess
Medina Volunteer Fire Department
I don't have any specifics for you in your area Llana, but we have
quite a few readers here from Texas who can probably help. The first
place I would look is the Texas Forest Service. There may also be a
community college nearby which offers the basic 32 hour training each
Spring. The text books used in these courses are also available, let
me do some research and get some spec's on what's available. There
are quite a few, and the number is growing, private contractors in the
West who are providing their own training. Some of their web
addresses are on the links page. You can email them directly and ask
for help also. Abercrombie |
| 11/15 |
Ab, Just thought I would be the first to say hooooo-raaayyyy...
Nice job in putting togeather the contest. Beyond the contest is their
anyone who has the url's for shot crews? I am putting togeather a
wildland firefighters resource page on the net and I am not having alot
of success in finding the urls. Also if anyone has anything that they
would like linked from it, please check out the site and drop me a
message and I will see about adding a link.
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/5561/index.html
Also anything at all pertaining to wildfires I would be more than
glad
to take a look at and consider adding it as well.thanks.....Keep up the
good work AB!!............M C Nelson PA Bureau of Forestry |
| 11/14 |
OK, enough thought, let's get it on! Who indeed has the
"hottest" engine? (See prior message) Click the
following link for details on wildlandfire's first annual "Hottest
Engine Contest". If you're on, or know of a hot engine, click
here for entry and details! Hot
Engine Awards |
| 11/13 |
Hey Ab,
This is my first message to "they said", which I enjoy reading
very much. I like the entire site, especially the photo pages.
I used a couple of them in a few projects. Something I've been
wondering about for a log time is this: Who has, or where is the
hottest engine in the states? You know, what engine responds to the
most fires during their fire season? And, who has the coldest
engine? Most engine stations I've been to keep a roll chart or log
book of their responses, how about a contest?.
Al
Thanks for the input Al, glad you like and could use some of the pics.
I also think your idea for a contest is a great one! Let me give
some thought on setting it up. I'll post the details here very
soon. Abercrombie |
| 11/13 |
Hello folks:
First of all let me say that I have truly enjoyed your site and keep up to
date on it each day. I also like the idea that most of the people
writing in
are wildland firefighters and not having to deal with the hook and ladder
shit. I have took some time and read throughout the archives and
wanted to
bring up a few questions.
1. Really?? how bad was the pack test? I could not believe all the
complaints
from people about the pack test. I would like to hear from some of
the people
that took it and get there feeling as well. I have took it and found it to
be
no big deal. I also believe if you can't pass it or deal with it,
you have no
business being on the fire line! I also believe if you take pride in
your
work, yourself, and want to do this for your job and or career, take the
time
in the off season and work out. It does not take much time to train
for it,
and if you stay in shape you will not only feel better but perform a hell
of a
lot better on the line.
2. I also found a question from someone else regarding the Boise
Hotshot
Crew, about why there were disbanded. While looking through the
archives I
did not find much info on it. My understanding about the situation
was that
there was some hazing to the rookies. Now I don't know how true that is,
you
know how rumors can spread, but if anyone can fill me in, I would sure
appreciate it.
Again, Abercrombie, I would like to express how much I like your site and
to
keep up the good work
Take care,
Cody
Thanks Cody. I'll leave it to others to respond to the topics you
brought up. Abercrombie |
| 11/10 |
Boo, I thought that was you. Just for the record, i'm always ready
for
a fire assignment, it keeps me young and out of the poor house. Sooo
just name request ol' CB i'm ready. |
| 11/8 |
CB, good to hear you made it over here. Marty has been down on the coast
bailing water. That's one of the problems with a state the size of
Texas, one place is burning up and another is under water. It keeps us
busy. I just got back from a week on the Shenandoah NP. They are getting
a little rain now but are still behind. I look for fires in that part of
the country til about Thanksgiving. Just when you thought you were safe
from El Nino, La Nina kicks in. Take Care.
"Boo" |
| 11/6 |
Hey there, I'm new to this whole commo deal with computers, so please
forgive my lack of knowledge in this arena. I'm learning! I
was just
wondering what kind of information has been exchanged about the
disbandment of the Boise Hotshot Crew. What do other wildland FFT's
think about this situation? Right, wrong or indifferent, do ya think
the W.O. was thinking when they did this? I have heard a lot of
support for the crew. Personally, I think W.O. should own up to
their
mistake of disbanding a quality Type 1 crew. If there was any wrong
doing punish the people who were involved. As far as I know, the
people involved were not even part of the crew any longer. It was an
entirely new crew. Let me know what ya think.
See ya, RS
Not much was mentioned, but if you look in the archives around the
time it happend I recall a couple of comments. Abercrombie |
| 11/5 |
Hello, my name is David and I have always wanted to fight forest fires,
and
this summer I intend to. However, I do not know who to contact or
where to start,
I have searched the web but I think that it may be too early to
apply. I kept
running around in circles. Also, do you have any suggestions for me
to insure a temporary
summer job with the USDA in fighting forest fires, or where to
start? Oh, by the way
I live in Vancouver, Washington.
Thank you for your time and patience, David
I don't know about insuring a job David, there's some pretty stiff
competition in many areas, but keep an eye on this page: http://www.fs.fed.us/intro/directory/employ/index.html
and watch the Job Links area on this site. I'll keep it updated with
any exclusive job advertisements as the season approaches. In most
USDA areas applications are accepted from around Jan-Apr, but you'll want
to contact your nearest Forest Supervisor's Office for further
details. Try here for National Forests in your State: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/states/wa.shtml
Abercrombie |
| 11/3 |
Saints Be Praised fellow feds. I received my annual performance
rating last week, and yes, I'm "fully successful"! Imagine
my overwhelming sense of self satisfaction and pride upon receiving this
wonderful documentation. All those flame filled days and smoke
filled nights on the fireline away from my family for weeks at a time will
surely fade to insignificance upon acheiving this lofty goal.
Course, I heard that a mod leader on an adjoining District was "fully
successful" also. You know the person, he's the one who
repeatedly failed his engine inspection this last Spring, looks like they
slept in their uniform, and whose hand must be held in every initial
attack lest they endanger themselves or their crew. How
comforting to know that when applying for future jobs and submitting a
copy of my last performance rating that he may also apply and the review
committee will observe that we are both "fully successful"!
Sick-at-Heart |
| 11/3 |
Gentlemen: You have a great site for wildfire info, keep up the
good work.
The page to speak your mind, this is great. I now have a new
source to gain
other fire folks opinions. My 98 season is now done ( could have
been better
) and I'm closing the station down for the winter. Will try to
aquire some
BLM & FWS pictures for you in the future.
Have a good rest because soon it will fire up again.
Jensen. ( SFEO )
Thanks Jensen, & we'll hold ya to your offer of the pics.
Abercrombie |
| 10/30 |
Boo, I think we were in Mexico at the same time. I looked for ya,
but
was told you were in another country again. Looked for Marty too, no
luck though.....
CB. |
| 10/30 |
HEY FOLKS
I'm a forest ranger here in florida for about 20 years and this is the
first site I've seen that makes any sense. Hope you can keep it pure and
simple. I'm one of the editors of our district newspaper and have passed
your site on to others. I got your address from another ranger over in
Daytona fla., so you will be getting alot of sight seerers soon. Will send
you pictures of some of our fires as I get them.
Great site
Just another ranger
Thanks for the feedback ranger, "pure and simple" has
always been the goal. I look forward to your pic's and
hope you and others your way will help keep us abreast of the news from
your area. Haven't heard much since early summer, (see
archives). Abercrombie |
| 10/29 |
I'm glad to hear Charlie Bork had a good time down here in Texas. Just
for his info, we have been the Texas Forest Service since 1915 and we do
get our uniforms from the same place as USFS. However, we think your
light green pants are dorky and opted for the dark green.
Have fun with your OT and I'll be sure to check your CTR closely on your
next trip.
"Boo"
Thanks for the info Boo, good to hear from you again. I think
the light green pants are dorky too. . . and I've more than one pair in
the closet.
Abercrombie |
| 10/27 |
Try this web site www.primenet.com/~maricomm/themes.html
It's from Rural Metro Fire. They have two wildland themes one with sound
one without.
Let me know if this address is wrong.
Jeff Emerick.
The address is correct. This site leans towards the EMS &
structure side of fire, but has some great airtanker shots. Didn't
try the themes. Abercrombie |
| 10/25 |
I heard the Firefighter Pay Comparability Act passed as a rider to the
omnibus spending bill. Does anybody have the final version online?
How about posting it on this site if available?
Rurik
How about a cut and pasted portion from the omnibus plan instead. It
may be a little difficult to read and even harder to interpret. Any
opm or other pay experts feel free to explain it to the rest of us.
You can download the full text, 3.8 meg worth in Adobe Acrobat PDF
format here: http://www.c-span.org/guide/congress/hr4328.pdf
or read/download my excerpt here: firepay.htm
Thanks for the heads-up Rurik. I waxed up the 'ol surfboard
(Netscape) this morning and surfed through a whole lot of debris before
finding the document on C-SPAN. A note worthy site I happened on
while searching is Union Pride. This site appears to be a "pull
no punches & take no prisoners" kinda place and contains more
links to Federal sites than I've seen anywhere yet. I will add it to
the Federal Links area here, give it a try: http://www.unionpride.com/
Abercrombie
|
| 10/23 |
Hello! I am so glad that I found this link. My name is Mandy
Burgoon
and I am a Forestry major at Penn State. I am currently trying to
find
some basic information about forest fires, because I am giving a speech
and the audience knows nothing about forest fires. My goal in this
speech is give them the basic info about crown fires, ground fires, fire
storms and so on. The major difference about the fires
out West and
the fire we have here in Pennsylvania. It would be really neat if I
could get some info or quotes on what it like to fight a fire out west.
I kind of have an idea, but some info. from some one who has actually
has been there and fought a fire would be even better. So any
information is welcome. My e-mail address mjb223@psu.edu.
Thank you
very much!
Take about 10 minutes and reply to this request in full will ya.
Abercrombie |
| 10/23 |
Hello Abercrombie, keep up the good work. Even though this is my
first message, I've been following your site for a while now, especially
"they said it". It's great to see a place us common folks
can write to to ask questions or air our complaints.
I'd like to ask the fed readers if any of them have jumped from CSRS to
FERS? I won't be attending the training until next month, but have
been reading all I can find and running all the comparison computer
programs I can find. I think I'm very borderline will probably try
and find an accounting/consultant expert to tell me what to do. Any
comments? Also, where would I find such an expert? Certainly
not in my area! Boomer. |
| 10/23 |
"Noname" complained about the media dorks who say borate
bomber. Then
there's slurry bomber, or my favorite: firefighters who
"surround" a
fire. (gag) We won't even go into the retarded tendency to write in
nearly all fire stories: "No deaths were reported and no injuries
occurred." (DUH. There's some nice non-news for ya.)
"Noname" asks when will the media correct their terminology,
and he
wonders if it should be "airtanker." Answer: Sometimes writers
and
reporters get out-voted by their editors. I know it's airtanker, but
I've been outedited on that one more than once. So is it fire line or
fireline? How 'bout crew member and crewmember? Ground pounder, or
groundpounder? Some of these are trivial and don't matter, but others do
-- and the examples of borate bomber and slurry bomber are good
examples. I recently mentioned to the news team folks at
(www.channel2000.com) that they do a good job on fire reporting. They
say contained and controlled rather than surrounded and extinguished,
and their fire coverage is good. I also mentioned to them that the folks
at the L.A. Daily News (la.digitalcity.com/dailynews/main.dci) are still
using "surrounded" when they write of containment. And I told
them that
the folks in the fire community laugh their asses off when they read
junk like that. I dunno 'bout you all, but when I read
"surrounded," I
immediately distrust the whole rest of the report.
When will reporters change? When their editors tell them to. When will
their editors tell them to? When the editors get called on it by the
fire community. Pick up your phone, use your email, write letters to the
editor, send faxes, whatever --- but LET THEM KNOW. Bitching is
effective, complaining is effective, but a good word here and there
helps too.
Kelly Andersson, http://www.wildfirenews.com |
| 10/22 |
There is still a tendency to use the term "borate bomber"
within the media
profession. As a past federal firefighter but still very much
interested in wildland
fire suppression I find this term outdated and perhaps out of content when
it comes to fire
suppression activities. When will the news media begin to correct
their terminology
for this very important piece of wildland firefighting apparatus?
Your comments or
anybody else's input will be respected and listened to. Oh yes,
should'nt the term be
AIRTANKER. Noname |
| 10/17 |
Here's a link for Gary Wittwer: http://www.firetrolcanada.com/#FTProducts
The page provides information on the chemical makeup of most of their
retardant makeups. George |
| 10/17 |
I thought I would drop you a line and tel you how much I enjoy your
page. Had a good season as far as ot goes, I could have gone other places
but I thought might as well stay home and collect the same ot. We had one
type II team here this year so we got fed good for a week or so. Now we
are in the middle of or burn season whish you boys were here hanging out
it's a kick ass time, we ether heli-torch or primo mark-3 got some great
photo if I could ever firure out how to get them to ya . take care M.P.
washington state.
I'm glad you like the page M.P. & even happier that ya let me
know. Since establishing our new home and name server we have been
very aggressively marketing the site to search engines and asking other
wildland fire sites to add us to their links page. The wider
exposure should add a lot of new folks who will hopefully want to add
their thoughts or comments on this page. Abercrombie |
| 10/16 |
I'm surprised none of the aviation folks volunteered an answer.
First, even though the term 'borate bomber' is still in the lexicon sodium
borate has not been used in 30+ years. Although a good fire
retardant it
was toxic to plants, animals, firefighters, etc. Borate was replaced
with
diammonium phosphate or similar chemicals. It was a good retardant,
and
had the added advantage of being a fertilizer. Unfortunately it was
also
very corrosive to metal (aluminum airtankers especially). Diammonium
phosphate was eventually replaced with ammonium sulfate (or similar
chemicals). Less corrosive, still a fertilizer and good fire
retardant
properties. Less toxic to wildlife and people, but a direct drop in
a
waterway will still bring fish belly up.
The red color is just a dye for
visibility. Clay thickeners are added to
make it gooey and less watery. There are some additives to make it
store
well, corrosion inhibitors, antibacterials, etc.
There are a number of manufacturers, all with somewhat different
formulations. Some are a liquid concentrate, some are a powder,
etc. The
USDA Forest Service evaluates them and sets standards; all fire agencies
accept the Forest Service test results. Then the companies compete
to win
contracts at the various airtanker bases.
I would like to hear from one of the manufacturers to add some details
and
perhaps correct some of my misstatements.
Rurik |
| 10/16 |
Dear sirs:
What was the worst fire in the nation this year? How
did it start?
What was the magnitude of the destruction? We are doing a project and
any information that you could offer would be helpful.
Thanx,
Daryl and Sacha
I emailed Daryl & Sacha explaining that a "worst" fire
would be hard to judge unless you knew what criteria was being
examined. I.E., size, damage, injuries, accidents, loss of life,
etc. Any nominations? Abercrombie |
| 10/16 |
Gary Wittwer asks "what slurry is made of or consists of."
There's an extensive research program at the fire lab in Missoula that
evaluates the different recipes for retardant. I'd suggest you check
with them, or with the retardant companies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kelly Andersson
http://www.wildfirenews.com |
| 10/16 |
My name is Jonathan Brunt. I am a college
student at the University of Houston. I have been looking aroung for
help on a question, so I figured you might have the answer. I am
interested in a temporary job as a wildland firefighter for next
summer. I am a cerified Texas Wildland Firefighter, and am currently
a member of the League City Volunteer Fire Department. I make
excellent grades, and have great ambitions for what I enjoy doing. I
would appreciate any info you could give me on how to get this job.
I look forward to your response.
I've recently began adding links to employment information on the
Links page. There have been recruiting messages coming out over the
government internal system as some areas try to get an early jump for the
next fire season. When I find a way to correctly transform these IBM
formatted bulletins, I will post and maintain them on this server.
Keep checking the "Links" page under "Jobs" for the
latest info. Abercrombie |
| 10/14 |
Hello, I am a Brush hog with the Cortez Volunteer Fire Department.
Our
question for the week is to see what slurry is made of or consists
of.
Could you please help me out with this.
Thanks Gary Wittwer
Cortez Volunteer Fire Department
Any air tanker base types out there to provide a definitive answer
here? |
| 10/07 |
Just got back from Texas, did ya know those state guys there call them
selves the Forest Service, even wear our shirts and name tags, the
gall!! I was sent by the R.O just to keep an eye on things and
sample
some of that there TXOT. Pretty good show really, but we're lettin
those other Regions send all there Foresters and then send retired guys
too when they ran out of young'ens. Sure glad we're savin'
ours for
importin stuff like selling timber sales? There was a reincarnation list
there so I thought i'd best go again after their fire season starts.
By
then i'll have spent all the OT on wine/women and song, but most wine. .
Charlie Bork |
|
