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05/31	i think your web site is pertty cool. its got good pictuers an archives but you should put a subject for employees of state or federal who have problems with other employees or management. I work for state as a wildland firefighter. this is my second season or was. so that would be cool if you have a subject for that. if not thats cool ADL (initials provided by Ab if you don't supply a moniker) ADL-- Here's what Ab sez... The way this site works is that fire people (state, fed, interface city, volunteer, contractor, cooperator, foreign, US, employee, management, etc) write in with gripes about management, coworkers, "the system". They write in with questions, heads-up, safety alerts, information, a story about a close call, taking issue with a story about a close call, tributes to friends who died, interesting links and topics, fire news, training guidelines, computer programs, and sometimes to share a bit of themselves in other ways. Sometimes they "vent" a little... or a lot... or repeatedly. Occasionally parents of firefighters or firefighter's spouses seek info about their loved ones. Firefighting and our jobs are stressful. Having us away from home on fire assignment is stressful for our families. Ab sez, who ya gonna talk to? Us, of course. (We only ask that you are 'somewhat civil' because our kids may read the site and sometimes use it for research.) The "subject" of the threads that interweave here to form theysaid's ppe is entirely up to those who post at theysaid. OK, occasionally an Ab has a button pushed and may go off on a rant. I have. The point is, anyone can start a new thread or comment on an existing one. Some who post here are experts in one area, some in another. Some are wise, retired armchair commentators. Many who are not an Ab contribute in their own ways with acronyms, jobs research, computer info, legal info, lists of links, teaching materials or a question that calls forth new development on the links page. A big THANK YOU to all of you who make this site what it is by sharing yourselves. Ab would never ask for help, but contributions are appreciated. Hopefully ADL, you will share your beef, your info, your celebration, your story, your photo, or something of yourself in a way that no one has done before. We are a fire community... a family or network of individuals having varied perspectives, each of which is important. We also provide a voice for those who might not otherwise have one. We "Abs" (short for "Abercrombie" our "original Ab") provide the forum. You posters and contributors do most of the work and create the community. Lurkers get to share in that as well... Hats off to you all. So you see, ADL, you have contributed already by writing in your question/suggestion/comment. We hope you do it again... And choose a moni'ker, puh'leeeez! Ab. (but... not the "original" main-man kick-a** Ab, premier groundpound'r and still firefight'r, our general and mentor and certainly wise, but not in an armchair yet!)
05/31	For Firepup21 Attached are two data dictionaries that we use in all of our Trimble GPS units. Fireinv.ddf is used in fire investigations and fire.ddf is the main one used to map fires. It is being used nationally and fits all of the data requirements for NIFC reports and for GIS attributing. rm Firepup21, check your e-mail. Ab.
05/31	Ab, I have read the various diatribes by one of the Minnesota posters below and feel compelled to reply to some of his charges. I happen to work for the MN DNR as a field forester. In USFS lingo, I would be an FMO. Fire season in Minnesota is in the spring, usually just April and May. The firefighting force is comprised of full time Forestry employees (that number has been dwindling for the past 15 years) augmented by Smokechasers (casuals or AD's in USFS lingo). Smokechasers are hired and paid to attend S-130, S-190, and I-100 before they can even smell a smoke. To work suppression for the state of MN, they have to meet the Moderate physical standard (score of 40). Smokechaser ranks are filled with people just who happen to have spring time available. They tend to spend the rest of the year as truckers, construction workers, farmers, resorters, etc. They also tend to like a little adrenaline. A MN Smokechaser has at best a two month job. Its an interlude, not a living. Agency sponsored fire training in MN has been a little like a snake swallowing a very large egg the past few years. Since 1993, the system has been choked with people working their way through various training classes to meet the requirements for various ICS task books. And yes, full time agency people usually get preference in that system. You know the odds are good that they will be available next fire season, the Smokechasers may not be. MN trains its Smokechasers for local use first, in state off unit assignments second, and out of state assignments last. That said, the ratio of smokechasers to agency folks being sent to Fire classes from my agency office is currently about 2:1. People can work their way into nearly any ICS jobs they want to (as long as the training MN is paying for is of benefit to MN). Besides crew and engine jobs, MN has Smokechasers qualified for a variety of overhead positions. I'll send people to as much training as they can stand, it only makes them more talented and valuable to me. If they jump ship and go to work for another fire agency that offers a longer season, higher pay, and bennies, good for them. I wish them well. After the MN fire season ends, Smokechasers can spend as much time as they want on out of state assignments. Only about 1/3 of the smokechasers that work in this area are interested in out of state fire assignments. Those people are Red Carded (after meeting all requirements of the 310-1). When these folks leave the state, they become USFS AD employees. The folks that aren't interested in out of state work don't get Red Cards. I have no doubt that Mr. Linscott is correct that there are 800 smokechasers on the MN rolls considered active. I have 30+ people on my list locally. Most are firefighters, the balance work in dispatch, detection, and support functions. Several of these people only work a few days a year. Of these 30, I would be hard pressed to come up with more than a handful for a fall fire, they are busy with other jobs then. The fire he mentioned that was a problem staffing was in late October of last year. It happened just before the MN deer season (nearly a sacred event for most MN outdoorsy types). The Smokechasers that weren't working at other jobs has spent much of the summer working on fires in the west. I suspect they were ready for a break and wanted to be sure to bw ome before opening day of deer season. I spent a week on that fire myself and I know it interfered with my preseason scouting and plans....... Regarding contractors operating out of state, my info (from annual fire planning meeting notes) is that effective this year, agencies won't red card contractors. Contractors wishing to be available for out of state use will need to contract with the USFS. They won't be issued a Red Card, but will need to meet Red Card standards for the positions (ENGB, FFT2, etc) by presenting evidence of required training and completed task books, etc. There, I feel better now.................... One of those "horrible" Minnesota DNR guys
05/31	Ab and All Did you ever have one of those weeks? Our engine boss just decided that he wanted out of the business. Would have helped if he had decided that a few months ago. If there are any qualified and carded people out there who are still looking for the right place to be this season, give us a call. Specialized Transport and Fire Services 208-924-7388 trenner@cybrquest.com
05/25	G'day Mates- I was going to suggest these two links from downunder to add to your worldwide collection and Byron's post goosed me into action: Here's FireBreak on bushfire with some nice photos of Aussie fires and some good links. Also FireNet, another good fire website from Australia. For Byron- A list of links of organizations that research Bushfires: www.ffp.csiro.au/nfm/fbm/bf_links.html There may be other good worldwide links that Australian readers could suggest. With the way things are burning already in the States, maybe some of us will be over to help out soon. Cheers and good luck Byron- Sid They look good. Thanks. I'll put them on the links page this morning (morning for us anyway). Ab.
05/31	Had a start at 8:30 am yesterday (5/30/01) went to 75 - 100 acres quick, looks like it is contained now. Had several smaller fires in the county. Lots of action and things kinda got strapped in the afternoon, some people were stressing (guys with all the do hickes on their collars, mainly). Looks like another hot dry day in Northern California. Kinda reminds me of the end of the 1987 summer, only thing is this isn't even summer yet. All you folks in the east, if you haven't been to California this could be your chance. Keep Hydrated. L.A.V.E.
05/31	Readers, we usually don't post messages from kids, but I'm hoping at least one firefigher from Australia is reading and might have some info for young Byron. Ab. Hi my name is Byron and I am in year 6 and live in Australia. I am doing a project on bushfires and was hoping that you could help me by suggesting some other web sites that I could find some more information about bushfires. I was also hoping you could find out how bushfires are created, what conditions are best suited for bushfires, how they are trigged and grow so large and for you have lots of stories which are in America states I was wondering if you could find some stories which involve Australia. THANK YOU VERY MUCH !! Byron
05/31	Hey gang, I am looking for anyone out there who might be using Trimble GeoExplorer 3 GPS units for mapping fires. I work on a helitack crew in Utah and we just acquired one to use this season on our helicopter. If you are familiar with these units, it is necessary to use a "data dictionary" when logging data. I am wondering if anyone out there has created a wildfire related data dictionary that you would be willing to share. Our ship comes on contract June 1 and I am a little crunched for time at the moment for creating my own. I also want to comment on how cool I think the "current wildlandfire news" link is. I've been checking it out regularly since you put it up and it has been kinda fun to come home in the evening and read up on what's going on in other regions etc. Also getting a chuckle at the media hype on how this year "may potentially be the most disasterous fire season yet." Compared to what, I ask? In acres burned, structures lost, dollars spent?? Isn't the fact that we have created our own mess over the past 100 years the real disaster? I say bring it on, set the woods aflame, we can't seem to get the acres lit that are really screaming for it, so let mother nature do her job when the lightning strikes. God knows we've got the manpower and equipment to protect the structures. At last count there will be 9 exclusive use helicopters in Utah alone, that's up from 3 last year! I think us folks out here in the west need to take note of the prescribed burn acreages in the southeast this year. (yes, I realize you may think I am comparing apples and oranges), but it is interesting nonetheless. I'd like to hear some discussion on what different regions have in place for Fire Use plans this season, if any. (You know the Wildfire for Resource Benefit deal, or whatever they are calling it nowadays, PNF) Anyone? Anyone? As of todays sit report for prescribed fire acres the southern area = 769466 acres, with eastern in second with 87291 acres and the Western great basin bringing up the rear with a whopping 786 acres. Thanks Ab, you (you guys) are the best, Firepup21
05/31	here I am reading the front page of the Progressive this morning and to read this B.S. from B.J. Pearson regarding how he thinks that all the private property owners and the county sups should be told about the the Forest Service plans on Fuel Suppression by June 5th. Hasn't anybody slapped him upside his head yet? There is a fire burning you jerk!! It goes on to say and a quote by him stating that "We need a firmer stand, We know that the FOrest Service --- if left to their own devices--- will do nothing." It says that in his ideal situation, the supervisors would emulate the New Mexico legislature and take over the Forest Service lands because of the threat of catastrophic wildfires.. It seems as if Dave is right, BJ is a Real Estate agent first and a politician second and doesn't give a rat's behind who he hurts to get what he wants. He is only looking at the potential for a money maker golf course and isn't looking at the whole picture. Obivously, Mr. Pearson has got a bug up his butt about some of the U.S. Forest Service folks he may have known in the past and has drawn an overall opinion about them all.. I think if this fight continues and BJ gets what he wants, the fires are going to go to hell, they'll call the USFS and CDF and BLM to come put out the flames and then he'll stand back and say we did it all wrong again... And then the people who's homes have burned up, will have to blame somebody too and he will just point them the way he wants... Sorry to go on a rant, but BJ is full of B.S. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Clear cutting the forest is not the answer.. He needs to shut up and let the folks who know what they are doing continue to do what they are doing. It takes years for a Forest to become safe from wildland fires. It doesn't happen overnight... Roses
05/30	Hi Ab, and all. I'm having a problem with the hiring process. (Join the club) I'm over 40 with many years of prior service in primary fire positions (federal). Enough years in fact that counting my ACTUAL time on the job, I come in under 35. However, I just got off the phone with a USFS personnel officer. She told me that If a person applied by the end of the first round, January 19, 2001, that ALL prior service counts towards MEA. However, If one applied after that, only service prior to 1986 counts towards retirement. Ever hear of anything so crazy? This isn't the first time I've run up against this. You can talk to 100 personnel officers and never get the same answers. Now I'm not condemning all personnel people. As I'm sure there are many that work their tails off and are very diligent. Although I have a problem with the accepted incompetence of this system. For example, any applicant over 35 must prove where and when they worked for the federal government. Doesn't the dang government keep records? I guess that means I should print up a couple of bogus personel action statements and nobody would be any the wiser. I'm not advocating this, Just pointing out that it would be easy to do. We've all got jobs to do and they aren't always easy. But the people running this hiring system aren't doing their jobs. They work for the people of the united states. If they aren't performing, they need to be replaced. "That's the way it is" Doesn't cut it anymore. We don't have to put up with it. They are also opening themselves up to a ton of legal action. Thank you for allowing me to vent. Now, Does anyone out there know where I might get a straight answer on this? I didn't find anything on it on the FAQ page. OPM website doesn't address it, and forget about calling. Nobody ever answers the phone. Thank you -Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore-
05/30	Hey Fire Academy Guy: Here's the url for the engine requirements that Hickman listed. I found them in the National Interagency Mobilization Guide (pdf), April 2001, page 307. The guide is in pdf format (about 2000K large!), requires Adobe Acrobat and took about 8-10 min to download on my computer. In my opinion, it's logical to have this long and complex a book in pdf. (Can't say the same for the sit report. Thanks for the html archive link, Ab.) Anyway, it's great NIFC has the mob guide online! OBTW, you can search on a keyword(s) within the document. Simply hold down the control key on your computer and hit the F (for find). Type in the keyword. The word "engines" occurs almost every page so the table of contents is better for finding this, but for finding other things, it works great. No "Type 4 Brush Units" in there though... Please take care, Everyone - Mellie
05/30	Ab, here are some photos from the Bulger Cr Incident here on the Burns Interagency Fire Zone. 93 acres in the trees, pretty early. Be safe firefighters, dispatcher Nice evening/night fire photos. I put them on the Fire 5 Page. Ab.
05/30	Ab, I recently received a question regarding information on a post to "They Said It" regarding the possability that a MN contractor had been using firefighters with no red cards on federal fires. I would really like to know which contractor this was so I can investigate further. Can anyone help me? Below is my response to the question regarding uncarded firefighters from MN. Nationally, red card verification has been very lax for as long as I can remember. Red cards can be made up from "whole cloth" by the issuing authority with no substance behind them whatsoever. Simply put no one checks to verify that red cards are legitimate of that the info on them is correct after they have been issued. For several years the MN DNR was so desperately short of legitimately carded engine personnel that they could not send the millions of dollars of interface engines to federal fires and so recoup much of the tax dollars spent on them. Since they had represented to the legislatures of MN that they would be able to recoup a substantial amount of the funds appropriated to purchase them originally, the MN DNR was in an embarrassing position. They had for years neglected to provide enough opportunities for firefighters to actually get the required classes and training to legitimately red card those qualifications to the folks that manned their engines. Most of these folks were casual firefighters or in MN DNR lingo "emergency firefighters/intermittent" as the MN DNR had/has been downsizing for the past 15-20 years and, in doing so, had laid off most of the full time employees who were qualified to fight fire... technicians mostly. The classes that were offered in MN were mostly filled with full time employees of the DNR since they were trying to fill this gap. Unfortunately, these full time employees were unable to take the time off from their regular duties for out of state fire duty since their work load had increased substantially when the technicians were laid off. Red cards are only required for MN casuals in MN when on federal fires after the initial 24 hours. If they were required for all MN firefighters MN would essentially be without adequate wildfire suppression capabilities this year. The proper solution would have been to provide classes to the "emergency firefighters/intermittent" that they wanted to run the equipment on out of state fires. These "casuals" had been begging for classes for years so that they could "advance" in Fire but the DNR was fearful that with legitimate qualifications these properly trained "casuals" (who, by the way did have lots of practical experience running this equipment) would leave the intermittent employ of the MN DNR for "blacker pastures" due to the horrible manner in which they were treated by the DNR on a regular basis. They were, of course, quite correct, as the mass exodus of MN firefighters has proved over the past few years. The short term solution was to issue red cards to technically unqualified casuals with qualifications printed on them for which there had been none of the required classes or training. The short term solution, of course, became the long term solution as it was cheap and easy. I was one of the "instant engine bosses" about 6 years ago... and despite my best efforts could not get the classes or task book to actually qualify as an engine boss. The DNR did not want to admit this fraud and so would not help me or any of the others in my situation get class time. It is one of the dangerous and wrong things that happen when you have someone who has absolutely no fire experience running a state fire suppression program. I was eventually able to get the classes on my own. I postulate that the MN contractor (and I really would like to know which one) hired these casuals based on the fact that they had the proper qualifications on their red cards the previous year... and they don't normally disappear once you have them. The DNR was then faced with either owning up to their fraud and facing the consequences, or not. They chose not to issue red cards for those individuals who decided to work for private contractors and, thereby at least temporarily, escape culpability for their previous actions. Of course since in MN there is no other issuing authority, those firefighters were screwed, since without a red card they could not work as firefighters and the contractor was screwed as well. They both probably would have a very good chance of winning a suit if it were ever brought. They should not have to since it is a safety issue and the Feds should investigate and prosecute such fraud. Some ass needs kicking at the state level to prevent this from becomming more widespread. The feds might also want to be more vigilent although in all fairness when there is a fire, it is not the time to be checking red cards and once the fire is out no one cares anymore. In any case State "cooperators" should not be scamming the feds and getting away with it. I don't know why they were allowed to work on federal fires.. it would seem that there is a failure to verify not only that an individuals red card qualifications are legitimate but that an individual has a red card at all. In all fairness the Minnesota DNR may have been "shmoozing" any official that contacted them to check red card status for individuals on a fire by saying something to the effect that "they are in the mail". Dana Linscott
05/30	Enlighthend, It's easier, and it's harder than you think. Surveying is a measure of land on a horizontal plane and does not consider surface area. Visualize a square mile of flat land with a large peak centered in it. The land base is still 640 acres by surveyed measure.....yet the surface area is significantly larger. Got that? Now, compound your problem by trying to use that surveyed measure to determine how much retardent or foam you need to apply......and oops! You are back to being concerned about surface area rather than surveyed area. Are we having fun yet? Cool question. Old Fire Guy
05/30	In Response to Hickman's Engine Type descriptions, He is correct in the Engine Type Profile that is used today, except to say that in California only Types 1-4 are used. But I want to share a argument that occured during a recent conference in Sacramento regarding engine typing. A discussion was held regarding engine typing at an interface fire in Region 5 that resulted in a low structure loss but a high dollar loss (Three structures with more than $1 Million in damages). During the discussion questions were asked what is the differences between a Type 1 Structure Engine and a Type 2 Structure engine. First, Type 1 and 2 are the only designators for structural fire apparatus. Types 3-7 are exclusively wildland engines, but there are a few what are considered Type 1/Type 3 Interface engines that have the manpower and pumping capacity of a structure engine but the off-road and pump-&-roll capacity of a wildland engine (For further info on these engines look at the Pierce Fire Apparatus Company's CDF Model 25 Engine). Second, when you compare the written engine type classifications to what almost all Type 2 engine are built up to, you'll find that the only true difference between Type 1 and 2 engine are four firefighters vs. three firefighters. Type 2 engines are generally built with 1000GPM+ pumps, 500+Gallon Tanks, and carry the same or more hose than Type 1 Engine listings. Third, the only real difference is that the Type 1 engine has one more firefighter, and the reason for that is solely the number of firefighters that fit in the cab. Most Type 1 engines have a custom cab that can hold 4-8 firefighters, whereas most Type 2 engines have a commercial cab that can only hold three firefighters. Fourth, most Type 2s can go off road with the commercial chassis, but Type 1 engines with custom chassis's are too heavy or bulky to go off road. CDF experimented with a wildland engine body on a Spartan Chassis and the firefighters found that the thing sucked when leaving the pavement. The nickname for these engines were "Battlestar: Galactica". Fifth, many Type 2 engines, in California, are equipped with almost the same amount of wildland hose that a Type 3 engine carries. Many volunteers in the state use the Type 2 engines when they don't have the luxury of having a very expensive Type 1 or a secondary Type 3 engine. In remote areas may need to be self-sufficient for 30 minutes or more before the next in resources arrive. I can only speak for myself and volunteers in my area, but volunteer engines in my old county fire department wanted to be better prepared to handle a wildland fire, so they loaded up on 1-1/2" and 1", more so than what the career Type 2 engines did. This met with a lot of resistance from the paid battalion chiefs, but in one summer where for a solid month volunteer engines provided most of the suppression forces in 1992, attitudes changed. Type 2 engines with the properly trained and experienced people, and proper equipment can do the jobs of structural, interface, and wildland operations. Most Type 2s can get back in the areas that a Type 3 can, and are great for pumping those long and/or uphill hoselays. MOC4546
05/30	Perhaps you can help me. I have a question. The other day I was web surfing, helping my nephew with a school project designed to introduce kids to searching the internet. He wanted firefighter that fights forest fires. I'm not the sharpest at this stuff. But I did find the National Geographic Firecall site. He watched and listened to the fire fighter and got excited to search further. He hit some links including "they said it". (This is a very neat site!) Then he tried the link to the Daily Fire Report http://www.nifc.gov/news/sitreprt.html. There was an error message 404 on a white page. Do you know where he can get the Daily Fire Report so he can finish his assignment? They say it's not put up until fire season. Is it not fire season yet? It is definitely fire season. NIFC no longer does the national fire situation report (Daily Fire Report) in html form. Evidently they do not provide a forwarding link to their pdf version sitreport, either. Your nephew can find the Daily Fire Report in html by about 0845 every morning on our links page under "news". NIFC archives it early (don't ask me why) and that's how we get it. You can get the report earlier in pdf format but need adobe acrobat to download that. The archived report is up now -- 0645. That's early. (To get the archived report, click the fire "Link" bar at the top of the page. It is the second link on the page. The pdf version is the third link.) Good luck. Ab.
05/29	This evening's Devil Fire stats update (Susanville CA) from CDF: www.fire.ca.gov/cdf_incidents/devil/incident.htm Firescribe
05/29	Okay, this question involves both the Planning and Operational lurkers out there. As an operational type myself, I had always held that 4840 square yards of surface area constituted an acre of land. Enter the Situation Unit Leader world (trained this year in R-5) and I find that this number has to be adjusted for slope. In other words, on near vertical topography, even though 4840 square yards have burned on the slope, the true acreage would only be that of the perimeter on a flat map, This would mean that the fire could be much less than an acre. If you find the confusing, think of a fire spreading up the face of Yosemite's Half Dome (yea I know, no vegetation and its in a National Park). The surface area of the vertical face equals thousands of square yards yet the fire would only map out to a couple acres once it reaches the top and goes out. Is it just me looking like an idiot, or are there other ICs or Ops folks who have made the mistake I have and thought that a flaming square mile of canyon wall equaled 640 acres. Based on this I've spent the better part a day walking around a 100 acre fire that had 2000' of altitude gain. Enlightened!
05/29	Found it once, but lost it, that link to different engine types. However, for Fire Academy Curriculum Coordinator, here's a kind of a short discription of each class of engines which the Forest Service Recgonizes: Minimum Standard for Types: Type 1 - (Usually a Class A engine in Structural Fire Fighting) Pump 1000 gpm, 400 gal/tank, 1200 ft. 2 1/2" hose, 400 ft. 1 1/2 " hose, 200 ft. 1" hose, 20 feet of ladder, 500 gpm Master Stream, and Minimum 4 people. Type 2 - 500 gpm, 400 gal/tank, 1000 ft. 2 1/2", 500 ft. 1 1/2", 300 ft. 1", 20 feet of ladder, and Min. 3 people. Type 3 - 120 gpm, 500 gal/tank, 1000 ft. 1 1/2" hose, 800 ft. 1", and Min. 3 people. Type 4 - 70 gpm, 750 gal/tank, 300 ft. 1 1/2", 300 ft. 1", and Min. 3 people. Type 5 - 50 gpm, 500 gal/tank, 300 ft. 1 1/2", 300 ft 1", and Min. 3 people. Type 6 - 50 gpm, 200 gal/tank, 300 ft 1 1/2", 300 ft 1 ", and Min. 2 people. Type 7 - 20 gpm, 125 gal/tank, 200 ft 1 1/2", 200 ft 1", and Min. 2 people. by adding an "x" to the type indicates all-wheel drive engines. (Type 6x, etc.) Other equipment is also listed as largest to smallest; Tractors/Dozers Types 1-6, Water Tenders (mobil water supply units), Helicopters, and Air Tankers, are typed 1-4 Be Safe Hickman PS. OOPs, I may have messed up on the required ladders. If someone had a fireline handbook. Check ladders required on Type 1 and 2's may require 48 feet of ladders. (Another difference between Structural and Wildland requirments. NFPA 1901 Standards for Structural only require a 24' extension and a 12' to 16' roof ladder. I think an attic ladder is optional, just another sign of getting old....I furget!) I know, Ab, I'm suppost to be out of town....I'm out-a-here.. Thanks for taking the time. Type 1 and 2 Engines require only 20 feet of ladder according to the NWCG Fireline Handbook. Have a good one Hickman. You be safe. Ab.
05/29	Hate to bother, Can you tell me where a list of all the equipment designations would be on the web, example "what is a type 4 brush unit". We are doing some research and haven't been able to locate such an animal. Thanks, Fire Academy Curriculum Coordinator
05/29	Here's a great job post from the BLM down Bakersfield CA way. I just had to cross-post it! Jobs, Series 462 and 455 are up. Ab. ------------------------- Now this is an opportunity you don't run across all the time. Are you a heavy equipment operator that wants to get more involved in fire management? Take a look at this: Engineering Equipment Operator Leader (Fire Dozer) Open Period: 05/22/2001 - 06/19/2001 Series/Grade: WL-5716-10/10, $18.12 to $21.15 per hour. Announcement Number: CA-01-150SM-DEU BLM, BAKERSFIELD, CA REMARKS: Position requires prior wildland fire bulldozer experience. Here is the link to USAJOBS: www.usajobs.opm.gov/wfjic/jobs/IU2202.HTM All you Bakersfield alumni out there, know anyone that can try to fill Carl's shoes?
05/29	Ab, The National Fire Academy (NFA) is currently seeking individuals to serve as contract instructors for three, 2-day courses: "Introduction to Wildland and Wildland/Urban Interface Firefighting for the Structural Company Officer" "Command and Control of Wildland/Urban Interface Fire Operations for the Structural Chief Officer" "Cooperative Leadership Issues in Wildland/Urban Interface" The webpage is as follows: USFA -- NFA Issues In-Service Training Program Hunter
05/29	Sit report for yesterday and today are up. Click on the top archived NICC Incident Management Report. Check out the WLF news page. In addition to the US fire news, there's a report that 1200 were evacuated yesterday in Alberta (Alta), Canada. Ab.
05/29	Dear Disgusted in R3, The ASAP process has been a trial and error situation this year. Maybe even a Watch Out situation? On Round 3 I was rated by Boise as a GS-5 Dispatcher. Last week someone from Colorado called to offer me an 18/8 position as a 5. Well, I'm currently a GS-9, Permanent Full Time, with the FS so I declined. He said they had been finding that a lot when calling the folks on their list. Then on Friday I got a letter from the NPS saying that I had qualified and made the cert. for a GS-11/12 Fire Communications and Education Specialist. That was through an individual announcement, not the ASAP process. So go figure. Good luck all. W-O-F
05/29	WOW, fire season is upon us... nv and ca fires Reno kolo.com news NorCal Tom
05/29	Hey, NV FIRE ANIMIAL, How in the heck did you guys bend the hose box on the front of the engine? Please tell me that you didnt let Dave drivre it! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its started here in northern nevada...the winds went crazy here and the Warrior fire went to 6k... woohoo! looks like I will be able to afford the toys that my wife so desperately wants.... Be safe out there, all! Beigefoot
05/28	greetings all. i am a dept of the army firefighter. last year i was in new mexico and came across some folks that were working for a pvt contractor out of minn. i was asking them about minn and they told me none of them had red cards on them due to the state dnr not issuing them out. now, i do know that you are not able to be on fires with out having a red card on you.. how did they get on any fires?.. they where on many different fires in new mex and in mt.. can anyone explain this?.. thanks engine 88
05/28	Hey all, I know that this is probably old news to most folks, but check out what is going on down in Fla. Last estimate I heard was around 15,000 acres. With only 35% containment. Got several friends from here in Texas that are down there already. NOAA imagery shows just what is going on. www.osei.noaa.gov/iod.html Stay safe, Keith
05/28	Ab --- Another fire in Canada, Quebec this time: http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/05/28/nemaska_fire010528 More on the Alberta fire: http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/05/28/altafire_010528 We lost two good people on Fri. when a light plane helping in the firefighting effort went down. Our prayers are with the families. http://www.edmontonjournal.com/stories1/010527/5061841.html Dan
05/28	Please explain the ASAP process to me...... I have been told that the ranking as eligible and highly qualified are done at the individual forest level. I have also been told that these rankings come from Boise and the individual forests have no role whatsoever. Does it not make sense if statement # 2 is correct that an individual should be on ever forest she/he selected at the same level of "eligibility/highly qualifiedness"? Why are individuals who were offered and accepted positions in round 1 and 2, being offered positions in rouond 3 and on forests they did not select. How can certain positions remain vacant for all three rounds? Are Forests Holding jobs for individuals who don't rate out yet, ie apprentices who have yet to convert? wasn't there a law suit several years ago that ended in an upgrade academy? How can an individual who does not meet the minimum quals for a position be offered a job? Do they not have to meet the quals lined out in the position description, or does time in grade cut it? Disgusted in R-3
05/28	The last two days I have had difficulty loading the pdf file for the National Fire Report. I usually use a T1 line at work and it pops up real fast but over the weekend I use my home machine and man is it slow loading that pdf file. After reading the fire report I noticed that they don't have the Mendocino Forest latest burn on the report, news last night had it at 150 acres. Well, got to go and finish up the clearing and prep around the old home stead, man I would hate to hear from the other guys that I didn't have my house fire safe. Thanks to all those that have given in defense of our great nation, both foreign and domestic in all kinds of uniforms. Go with God. L.A.V.E.
05/28	hey marie, yes we men do love our toys !!!! bigger the better. my wife cringes every time fire season comes around. during the winter, i go through all my catalogs with a gleam in my eyes. my wife will say " what in the hell are you going to get this year?? " . its great, i give her all these reasons for wanting a certain thing and she tries to talk me out of it. she will say," cant you do without that??? it cost so much !! " but in the end, i usually get what i want ! i do love the conversations about it. its better then pillow talk !! on a serious note, i hope we all take a minute to think about all of our brother and sister fire fighters who have fallen. not just wildland fire fighters but all fire fighters, we all face the red devil in our own special arena and when one of us falls it effects everyone. a friend of mine in nj lost a friend to a heart attack while at a structural fire. it can happen to anyone of us. be safe out there. BC Davis
05/28	hey bc, i know what you mean. ever since the klamath fire in northern california, my husband has been asking "where's the money?".. you know men.. ain't they all like that? he wants some new tool.. <:-) yep, i think all firefighter spouses are feeling another summer of separation coming on and are trying to look at whatever they can call the bright side.. marie from r4
05/28	Ab, You should add the Canadian Forest Service sit report to your list of links under worldwide. It will be a useful link this fire season. Canadian Sit Report Dan Thanks. I did. Readers, If you look under Alberta and then for wildfires in the news, you find this page http://envweb.env.gov.ab.ca/env/forests/fpd/ about the big one near Chisholm. Interesting reading. An interesting site overall. Ab.
05/27	hey cdf cap ! i am a ndf crew sup myself. the packs we use are pretty much the same as everyone elses. i believe the material is the same from pack to pack. i bought my own pack because i didnt like how the ndf pack felt on me. its a personel choice. as far as ppe, i wear what everyone else wears. that crap that my crew wears leaves something to be desired. its from you folks. some of it is in good shape but most of it is the pits and i wouldnt wear it if my life depended on it. i can see why you got rid of it. but then again we dont have the budget that you folks do. one of these days, the ppe my crew uses will bite ndf in the ass. i hope i dont go down with the ship too. well i have been on 2 fires and my wife is wondering where the money is ( aint all women like that ??? just kidding ladies :) everyone be safe. it could be a busy season here in nevada. and ec, got you figured out buddy !!! got to go water the grass !!! BC Davis
05/27	Canada is very dry for this early in the season. Big fire burning north of Idaho and Montana in Alberta, Canada. One story here in the CBC News. and another from the Red Deer Acvocate. Firescribe
05/27	AB, As far as I'm concerned the FS outta give Plumas County the Federal land within it's boundaries. Then they wouldn't have to put up with the -ologists and NEPA , then they outta put ol' BJ Pearson in charge of it. I'm sure he could develop a plan to subdivide and build golf courses, after all he is a real estate agent. And believe me he is a real estate agent first and a real politician second. Beer in hand and tongue in cheek, Dave

05/27	hey ab, looks like fire season is definately here! here's some new pictures for your site: this engine one, and brush one, operated by Nevada Division of Forestry station one on Mt. Charleston nv. later nv. fire animal Tim Thanks, I posted them on the engines2 page along with some engines on the Franklin Fire. With all that's burning in NV, got any with flames behind them? Also put up a photo on the crew3 page. Ab.
05/27	Do you ever have support dispatching jobs listed on this site? can you recommend a good site to find dispatching jobs? Muchas Gracias! Marilyn
05/27	Why Does R-8 Still Have The Good Mud (ie, F, The True F). Also Why Did The Feds Drop It?. Sounds Like A Political Nightmare Where They Drop The Red! I Hope The Law Suits Dont Make My Taxes Go Up!!!!!!!!! tb
05/27	CDF has banned all line gear with the exception of the yellow GSA stuff. This includes gear like Eagle Gear, etc... I would like to start a serious debate here among fire professionals as to why a decision like this might be unwise. The basic premise of the CDF management is that the GSA yellow line packs performed better under some kind of a flame impingement test. I was under the impression that all of the line gear, regardless of manufacturer, was constructed of basically the same material? Is this the case? I would like to see a dialog started here on this subject. If further info is needed, please advise. What are the pros and cons of this gear compared to other privately manufactured products? What do most hot shots use for line gear and why? Thanks! CDF Crew Cap
05/27	Here's the most recent Safety Advisory from NWCG - FROM : National Wildfire Coordinating Group REPLY TO : NWCG@nifc.gov DATE : 05/24/2001 SUBJECT : SAFETY ADVISORY : Firefighter Personal Hygiene Last year on a single wildland fire incident, 200 firefighters were exposed to a viral agent, which resulted in the hospitalization of many for severe dehydration. The state Health Department report concluded "that due to the lack of available and consistent handwashing, it is probable that large tubs containing an ice slurry to hold bottled water, sports drinks, juice and canned sodas became contaminated by the unwashed hands of ill people." This outbreak of illness occurred prior to the takeover by an incident management team. Thus it is a reminder for firefighters to wash their hands before eating or drinking at all stages of an incident. Firefighters are also encouraged to carry instant hand sanitizers since soap and water are not always available.
05/26	Ab, I read your message about the upcoming deadline for CA temporary firefighter positions. I really HATE to disagree with you, Ab because you are always so profound in your research. But, I want to correct you one this one little thing... The vacancy announcement for ALL temporary fire positions does not expire until 11/30/2001. This is a NATIONAL vacancy announcement, therefore, it's not supposed to expire until the end of November, and will expire NATIONWIDE, not just in California. I looked at the "jobs" page, and it looks to me like my understanding of the closing date for temporary jobs is accurate. Forests may have filled all their temporary positions (at this point in time), but I guarantee that jobs will open up during the summer that will need to be filled. So KEEP THOSE APPLICATIONS COMING IN. Don't give up! Thanks for allowing me to disagree with you this one time, Ab... @ You're right of course, @. Thanks for the clarification. We've been getting a lot of questions from students who want summer jobs only. They were the ones I was thinking of. I'll go back and correct my post. I agree: everyone who can, keep those applications coming in. Ab.
05/26	Goldilocks, I never put anything together in PPT for unit 10 (haz-mat), 12 (fire investigation), 13 (cultural resources) or unit 0. When I (and I use the I term loosely) put this together it was intended as something of a starter set. That is, something that would cover most aspects of 130 & 190 but was left generic enough for people to amend to their styles and geographic specifics. I dont know what to say about the double units 5 & 6. I dont think I submitted it that way, but its possible I guess. The origional versions are long since morphed into what I use now, which is tailored greatly toward my geogarphic area. Sorry I couldnt be of more help. Pulaski
05/26	Re Dispatcher Training If you go to the Western Great Basin site they have the new aviation dispatcher training at the site. We will shortly be posting a variety of programs on the California training web site. seldom seen
05/26	People were called out yesterday to fight fire in NV. Here's one story: http://www.rgj.com/news2/stories/news/990952491.html NorCal Tom
05/26	Thank you for providing a "readable" and reliable link to NIFC sit reports. Wildland firefighter mom You're very welcome. Ab.
05/26	Dana -- You may not remember me; but a few years ago I came to you and was pissed off at MN because we weren't getting released. Told you I wanted to get on a shot crew, and the MN thing wasn't happening. Well, I left. And my fire career couldn't be better! Oh yeah, I return to MN in the winter (still haven't figured out why yet) and love it. But MN-DNR-Forestry -- they spend 90% of their damn training on the perm foresters who don't want anytihng to do with fires -- they like planting Aspens. Anyway, I work the spring (if needed) and fall (if needed) on a casual basis but I would like to offer this... IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT FIRE, AND LIVE IN MINNESOTA, AND HAVE THE MEANS ----- LEAVE THE STATE......MOVE....FAST.... If anyone needs a place to stay, or help with the job process, let me know. I've been there, and am more than willing to help anyone out. -sec
05/26	Ab, I downloaded powerpoint S130 from the Programs Page. It didn't have units 10, 12 and if we don't count U0 - I don't have U13. There were two units 5 and two units 6. Does anyone have the missing units? Thanks for your help. Any dispatcher training info links you know of - I'd appreciate those too. Goldilocks We only have what is there. (I do have some other programs on CD.) Pulaski, do you have any others? Hickman? Anyone have any dispatcher training units or know of any links? (I do have some other programs not yet on the site but none are dispatcher training.) Ab.
05/25	I added photos of the Grand Ronde engine, engine crew, and Hawaii logos to Engines2, Crew3 and Logo4 pages. Click the captions under the pics to get the descriptive details on the images. Thanks for the photos. (I still have more to do.) Have a safe weekend. Ab.
05/25	Ab, Thanks for the copies of the articles. Gosh, maybe the FS should consider this option. Let Plumas County pick up the tab for the EA and all the rest of the paper work that goes along with any Forest project! Stu (ex-Plumas County resident)
05/25	Dear AB, I totally agree 100% with what Bear is saying. He hit that one right on the head. It took me a day to get the dates and articles I am talking about and even a couple Letters to the editor in this week's edition. Here it goes: the first article I read that set me seeking some responses was printed in the Chester Progressive May 16, 2001 edition. On the Front page, page 8B editorial and if you look, u will see one of their results of a Public Poll on 9B. Also there was another article printed in the Chester Progressive in this week's paper May 23, 2001 page 9B there is a Letter to the Editor or two that is kind of disgusting if you ask me. I couldn't have put it better Bear for my same feelings towards Supervisor BJ Pearson. Wonder who he will call when his forest starts burning and wonder if he will be willing to foot the bill. I strongly urge ppl to speak up and write a Letter to the Editor. Roses Got a mailing address? Hey Bear! Ab.
05/25	The jobs, series 462 and 455 pages are updated. Today is the last day to apply for seasonal firefighter positions on the Los Padres National Forest (CA) (see jobs page toward the middle). Students who want summer work only, May 31 is going to be the last day to apply for many seasonal temp ff positions this current go-round. Students, if you want a temp firefighting job, best get on it! The rest of you wannabees, keep on applying. Fed hiring will go on through November. Heck, it's already been burning in norCal, Nevada, elsewhere in the west and we're still hiring and training! Also updated the links page. To the state section I added Arizona, Alaska, one-o-the Carolinas and Georgia. Thanks adftr, cowboy-bob, and longtorch for the links. I added the new Canadian link to the worldwide section. Good un. Any others? Don't forget to check out the National Fire Situation Report or sit report in html. Thanks to all for the great input. Send in any more state and worldwide links if you have them. Ab.
05/25	Stuck in MN. The reason that "the powers that be" in MN Forestry are not allowing "regular employees" to go on out of state fires is that they have lost their "casuals" and are covering their ass. Due to their mismanagement and abuse of their casual firefighters they have placed MN at a high risk of catastrophic wildfires. The Minnesota Wildland Firefighters' Association for years tried to warn "the powers that be" that this was going to happen unless they stopped treating their casuals like linemeat. We got very little support from most of the regular employees while we were doing this. Three years ago we testified before the MN legislature that a severe shortage of casuals was developing due to mismanagement by "the powers that be" and suggested altering legislation to limit or reverse the damage. This year we testified that the damage was done and a program needed to be implemented to rebuild MNs wildfire fighting capability. We also put in place a paper trail to all those responsible for ignoring our warnings from the Legislature to the Governors Office so that when/if the catastrophic fires occur they can be held responsible. Currently although MN is spending more than it ever has on its fire budget, it has never had so few wildfire fighters available to fight fires. Last year the DNR had to request firefighters from other states when we had a medium fire because although their records showed over 800 casuals were available to fight fire less than 80 actually were. Rural fire departments already stretched to their limits have indicated that they are very dissatisfied with the DNRs dumping of wildfire suppression on them and that they do not have the resources to control major wildfires either. You are not alone "Stuck", as casuals are also being held back "unofficially" in MN as they have been for nearly a decade.... Fortunately for them the MN DNR cannot order them to standby and we have our own system in place to find out of state employment for our members and so no longer rely solely upon the DNR and MIFC for our livelihood or fire assignments. Many of our most experienced members also took advantage of the new opportunities presented by the new Federal positions. Most of those who have work elsewhere are still listed as "available for duty" by the MN DNR due to a lack of accurrate records in Human resources and an unwillingness to corrrect them as an accurrate record would immediately cost "the powers that be" their jobs. It makes you wonder though. If MN is withholding firefighters from other states yet at the same time is extremely dependent on those same other states for "troops", if we have a bad fire season, will other states will be willing to supply them? If not, "what goes around comes around" will "quid pro quo" MNs top fire officials into another line of work in the near future? I am sure that neither the MN Legislature or the Governor will be willing to share the responsibility that is rightly theirs if they have fire officials in the DNR to take the blame. Hey, maybe what goes around does come around! Dana Linscott Vice Chair MWFA
05/25	new pup (douglas) out west huh? well to tell you the truth; you better come prepared. "especially" in the in-shape department! iv'e had many southern crews on my divisions over the years, and they are good hands; However..... they are never ready for the topography in the west. the mountains are steep and expect elevations to go from 3500 to 8000 ft. straight up. the weather is hot and very dry, we might get lucky if the rh- reaches 30% in the middle of the season depending where your'e at in the west. all i can realy tell you is to put a lot of running in your pt. program and even power hikes; it will make life more bearable for you if you get out here. be safe and have a great career! L.C.E.S. bro! nv. fire animal TIM
05/25	I am really pleased to announce that GEORGE JACKSON has been selected as my replacement as the Fire, Aviation & Residues Program Leader at the U.S. Forest Service Technology & Development Center in Missoula, Montana. George brings a wealth of practical wildfire experience and equipment development expertise to the job: he had more than 15 years as a Smokejumper, working his way up to a Foreman; he's also Division Sup and Air Attack qualified. He worked winters at MTDC until 1990, when he came on board full time. George has had the responsibilities for the saw chaps program, helicopter rappeling and much of the software such as 5 and 55 gallon water bag systems. George has participated in many Fire entrapment investigations across the U.S., including South Canyon. He is also the Chair of the NFPA Technical Committee on Wildland PPE (NFPA 1977). I sure George will bring his own unique style to the job (when he's not throwing flies at trout from his raft or drift boat), and I encourage you to give him the same full support I enjoyed from all of you. You can wish him well at gjackson@fs.fed.us Dick Mangan
05/25	Hey guys, been reading the post for some time now and this is first time I have sent something in. I have just been Red Carded and I am super excited, since 16 years old I have wanted to do this, and now 18, I can and will. I am with/on North Carolina's "2nd" out Western Fire Crew, pumped up for this season. We have only had a few meetings so far, and I am full of questions cause going out west will be new for me. I hope to meet some of you guys out there (maybe). Being that I have never been out west to work a fire, how do these "fire camps" work? If I should wear out my boots/pack/helmet can I buy new stuff at a camp or can that stuff be repaired at the camps? If so how much will it cost me? OR do I need to venture into a town to get that stuff fixed? THANKS, Douglas Another pup, eh? I remember my first fire camp experience, but maybe I'll let the *Just One More Time* crew chime in here - or whoever else wants to. I assume you've seen the list of things to take on the FAQ page. Ab
05/24	Well Roses, I'll tell ya what's going on, at least how I see it. BJ Pearson was elected by the members of a small town in the middle of a national forest and the only thing keeping it alive is it's natural beauty (that's not what BJ cares about), the income from Forest Service employees, and the lonesome timber mill in Quincy. Now that's what BJ cares about. It's what the QLG cares about. Everything else they say and do is shrouded behind their ever salacious desire to get more logs into the mill. What the heck! Let's provide a 1000 acre clear cut around every town, better yet, let's make a huge safety zone around every structure. Them damn catastrophic fires are the result of that damn forest circus promoting 100 years of bad decision making. They put all the fires out and now we're left with the results. Well, kiss my fuzzy b**t again. The Forest Service only did what Congress told them to do. The screwed up forest only reflects what the timber barons wanted for the last hundred years. Cut the trees, leave the slash, clear-cuts, plant more higher priced, merchantable seed trees, never mind that they aren't fire resistant, never mind that future bug-kill is going to produce a stink'in forest of matches. Don't blame it on the folks who own the mills who gave thousands of dollars to elect the people who insured they got their way! Golly no, blame it on the piss-fers who are so bound by the beuracratic tape that they can't take a dump without some OIG representative examining for excessive use of toilet paper. I say, let the county take over the care of the forest around the private lands within the forest. Hee, hee. DO IT! Let them do their thinning, harvesting, and maintenance. Then, when fire spreads from THEIR lands into the remaining forest, let's have the Forest Service send 'em an invoice. Let's also begin charging the county for federal response into this new county maintained "buffer zone". Course, we won't be responding to any initial attack until officially requested through the appropriate channels, so there may be some delay. We would, of course expect to be compensated at a rate equal to the OES rates established by the state of California when utilizing "county engines" for "extended" support. That would raise the pay of the individual GS-4 or GS-5 engine crewmembers to around $300-$350 per day. After all, that's what the current rate for OES delivered engine crewmembers is. Sounds good to me! Was it just 4 or 5 years ago that there were 124 active fires on the Plumas within 48 hours? Course, probably only 20 or 30 of them would have fallen in the buffer zone. I'm sure the existing county engines could handle that without too many heart attacks. Go get 'em Plumas County Board of Supervisors. Do you have any clue how much 1 airtanker costs? Just to take off from the runway? Nah, didn't think so. Do it BJ! Go for it! We can't predict where the lightning is going to strike, but we got's the documentation on where the big old human caused fires start. I guess a new 4-party agreement would need to be signed. Yes, the state would probably be more than happy to step in and help some. But have ya ever seen a daily invoice for a state engine crew compared to a federal engine crew? Didn't think so. How much timber stock do you own BJ? Bear really doesn't care. I just wanted to provide another perspective and defend our guys in green. Thanks Ab, for the opportunity to blow off some steam. Ab sez, "OK Fuzz Face, blow away!"
05/24	Hi All, I found a link to that story Roses was talking about: Plumasnews.com Couldn't find the whole story here. Newspaper hasn't archived the may 16 2001 edition yet. I'm not familair with the situation. -Lucky- Thanks Lucky. Readers, I have a faxed version of the two articles and will send them to whoever wants to read them (unless there are way too many of you). Drop me an e-mail. Ab.
05/25	Ab, In response to Roses posting, I would sure like to see that article. If nothing else, perhaps at least the Newspaper and date. Having not seen the article, I'm only guessing, but I can't help think that QLG (Quincy Library Group) money is at stake. And yes, currently there are private contractors out there that are doing prescribe burning and timber thinning in Roses area. And yes, these types of activities sometimes generate wildfires. But Forest require all operation plans to include fire suppression resources at site and when conditions dictate, patrols and even shut-down of activities. One question for Roses. Concerning prescribed burning and timber thinning, you make the statement . . . "is it not true that if we allow county workers and private industry to come into our forests and do these projects that the risk of a possible wildfire is even more so??" How could this be? Every prescribed burn on NF has a Burn Plan approved by the Forest! If the Forest does not think the resorces on the Burn Plan are adequate, the Plan is not approved and the burn does not happen! Even when approved, the Forest has the final say when it's time to light. (Like 30 day moratoriums during prime burn windows.) Also, I doubt there is a private contractor out there who would like to see his profits eaten up by an escape prescribed burn. Roses, don't fear the private contractors abilities or presence. You might be surprised at their backgrounds and by taking on prescribed burning, they are freeing up agency resources for other missions and activities! Stu PS: Plumas County taking over burning, that's one I'd have to think about!
05/25	To "Roses" re: Plumas County and the news: "I have been reading this one-sided story, but yet there has not been any comment from the USFS regarding any of this." Dear Roses, try to get used to it. This is what USFS public affairs (even in F&AM) is all about. They don't like to comment officially or unofficially on stuff that looks like this. Take a look at the lead plane issue over the last 9 months for a clue. If you are a FS employee and you get hung out to dry by the media, do not expect any help from the agency, because it likely won't happen. Quite a few people (on the ground, with the media, and in the WO) have tried for the last few years to change this unfortunate and archaic situation, but ----- well, don't hold your breath. kelly.
05/24	Dear AB, It has been ages since I have been here and visited. Due to poor health, I was forced to turn down my job with USFS this year. I've been reading my local newspaper only to find that the USFS is yet or still under attack.. I have been reading some disturbing news the past few weeks in regards to one of the district supervisors in Plumas Co., BJ Pearson, saying that the USFS has not been performing to the standards expected of them. And more of this story goes on to say that there is some discussion and possibilities right now of the county workers taking over to do the prescribed burning and timber thinning on the LNF and the PNF. This really disturbs me. As I know up until this year, we have been short on resources to do some of these projects that are on the blotter for the "things to do" list, but is it not true that if we allow county workers and private industry to come into our forests and do these projects that the risk of a possible wildfire is even more so?? Please tell me that somebody is going to respond to these stories in the newspaper.. I have been reading this one-sided story, but yet there has not been any comment from the USFS regarding any of this. Has anybody even contacted either Forest Supervisor for a comment on the matter? If BJ Pearson is allowed to go forth with this plan and do these things, I strongly suggest to all of the firefighters out there to gather up their gear and keep it at arms length at all times because our conditions are very dry and the forests are just waiting for something like this to happen. Although I am not with the USFS this year, you are all in my heart and it is obvious by reading these articles that the person who submitted this article does not have all the facts nor have they talked to the people who really know, to get the facts. Why havn't the Forest Supervisors or the Public Information Officers responded on this total attack on the USFS? I have been hearing a lot of people in town talking down about the USFS right now and that worries me. These people have no idea what kind of crap you guys go through to get anything done, let alone to put out a fire. A lot of folks are talking about the poor response on the Warner Fire that happened a couple of weeks ago and are saying that you guys just let it burn, but they are not aware of the fact that there were no resources available yet because the fire crews weren't even on yet. If it had not been for some fast thinking by some folks to open up the Chester Air Base and get some mud flowing and gather up a couple of tankers, that fire could have been a whole lot worse. I'm just slayed at the people in my area as I have lived here for almost 10 years and they are always quick to dis the government without looking at the whole picture or seeking to get more information on the facts. If you want Ab, I'll fax you a copy of these articles as I'm not too sure your paper has them.. Good luck to you guys this season it's gonna be a good one. My heart goes out there with you all Remember Stay Safe and Keep Smiling!! Roses Anyone know about this? Hope you're feeling better. Ab.
05/24	Ab, I'd like to know if there are other Canadian firefighters reading theysaid or browsing the website. Could you please add this link to your international section on the links page? The Canadian link you have there is no longer being maintained. www.ciffc.ca/cif.shtml One issue we have in Canada that I don't think you have in the US is two languages. We have both French and English speaking firefighters. It can make for some interesting situations that shout watchout. Does anyone know what kinds of training US firefighters are offering abroad? Last summer I heard something about chainsaw training in the South Pacific. Are there any other ways US firefighters are sharing their expertise? Anything between the US and Canada? Thanks for the site. I'm a pretty regular reader. I may be back in the US this summer. I like the sense of a global community of wildland firefighters. Canadian firefighter We appreciate the heads up on links that no longer work. We'll add your link soon and take down the old one. We do have other Canadian readers and posters here. Ab.
05/24	Ab, I came across this and thought it useful as a review and focus on safety. NorCal Tom firefighter safety in the wildland/urban interface
05/24	Where is best place to get all the gear? We have started the training for wildland fire at Fultondale Fire Dep. and we need to buy some gear to train with. Thank You Ken What part of the US are you in? Ab.
05/24	Jim on assignment in Florida- Most in the Fire World know that Minnesota has a large cadre of aviation folks. These include ATGS, ASGS, HEMG, and HEBM. What most don't know is that the "powers to be" in MN DNR Forestry have declared a moratorium on assignments for regular employees based on workload here. I think that you would see a fair number of the above mentioned positions, plus many others on the SACC list filled by MN folks if it wasn't for this moratorium. As long as the National Planning Level remains at 1 MN won't be sending any regulars. What I heard is that it will have to move up to 3 before they will lift the restrictions on assignments. The right people need to write some letters for this to change. Stuck in Minnesota
05/24	Hey -- can anyone tell me what's up with the Helishot programs? There's one in Apple Valley, CA (I think). Are there any others? I thought a few more were starting up, just never heard of the status. Also, I'm curious on what the typical experience level is for new-hires on a helishot crew. Any help from anyone with expereince or knowlege would be greatful. -sec
05/24	Seldom Seen, Good to hear you have a type I this year and the helishots are back. Have a safe year and fly straight. Ex-LP dispatcher AKA "Los Padrrrres"
05/23	Ab and All I'm down in Florida and there is already a REAL shortage of ATGS, ASGS, Helicopter Managers, and Helibase Managers. What is going to happen later in the year when things go Tango Uniform? Anyone available for details to FL should let their dispatchers know. Lets play the "Price is Right" and COME ON DOWN. Jim

05/23	-- To Purple: Yes, NICC and the GACCs are hiring their own fire mets, paid for with DOI funding this year. The story you read on wildfirenews.com is three years old; an update on the fire weather issue ran in the January 2001 issue of Wildland Firefighter Magazine. kelly.
05/23	I just updated the jobs page and added the alternative html sit report to the links page under news and reports. The pdf version is still available there for those who need crack'o'dawn information. We will provide a link to the NIFC sitrep when they get the crack'o'dawn html version online again. Ab.
05/23	Ab - Could you pass this message along? We're trying to find former members for the Bushmen IR and Entiat IHC who might like to attend the 35th Anniversary of the Bushmen/Entiat Hotshot crew Spring, 2002. We plan to tour the Entiat Valley, IHC facilities, followed by social hour, dinner and presentation/speakers. Knowing how many people are coming would help. If you are a former crewmember and/or have stayed in touch with others, please contact us and let us know your and their names, addresses, and phone numbers so we can keep track of those who have been contacted. I'm sending our logo also. Some additional info - Location: Wenatchee Convention Center Date: April 6, 2002 Accommodations: West Coast Center Hotel Dinner: Dinner Buffet for $25.00 per person Contact person: Kyle Cannon, Entiat IHC PO Box 476, Entiat, WA 98822 e-mail: klcannon@fs.fed.us
05/23	Hi there -- I am among the throngs that can't read the sit report either, so I went in person straight to one of the head gurus, along with the address for this website -- and because this un-named person is very "rooted" among all of us field folks, they will be reading -- probably posting and HELPING. Here's what I gathered: Evidently someone (that MUST) have more time than the rest of us, and knows what they're doing in cyberworld, downloaded the .rtf version of the sit report, then imbedded a virus and sent it back, where it crashed the entire NIFC web site. SOOO, that is the reason for the "unavailable until further notice" posting. What they are in the middle of doing, is working on the problem, trying to see if some other easy way to read files will work -- (ASCII??) -- for the computer literate. The problem has been personally taken to the folks there, and after getting ahold of this bulletin board address, I think they will get some very valuable feedback, that otherwise they might not have gotten!! Let's keep our fingers crossed. Cache Queen ASCII? How about HTML? Do it simple. Do it not so pretty, if necessary. Use the same minimalist codes that are used to archive. Here's that archive url again. www.cidi.org/wildfire/index.html The archive for today's sitrep should be up at 0830 or 0845 PDT if they do it the same as in past days. Thanks for the legwork, Cache Queen. Ab.
05/23	Here's the web site for the 5th Wildfire Safety Summit; a joint effort of lots of groups (International Association of Wildland Fire, Interior West Fire Council, NWCG, etc). Missoula offers lots to do, and the University of Montana always puts on a great Conference, so plan on coming! www.umt.edu/ccesp/wfs/ And, we're still looking for a few good papers, so send your abstract in as soon as you can. Topic areas are on the web site! Dick Mangan Thanks for the update, Dick. Here are some of the topics: Staying Safe on the Fireline (LCES, Fire Shelters, Avoidance, etc.); Safety in the Interface for Homeowners and Firefighters; Health and Fitness in the Firefighter Workforce; Making Firefighters Safer (training, lessons learned, human factors). Check out the website. Should be an interesting conference. Ab.
05/23	R8 Fireguy, Have an opening on the Type 1 Helicopter at Arroyo Grande, Pacific Southwest Region for at least one Apprentice at this time. They will get both Helitack & Helishot experience in one year. We pay Salary & you pay perdiem. If you have any questions call Ted Mathiesen at 805.481.1280. Thanks seldom seen
05/23	Hi Ab. I just read the article titled 'Fireweather Controversy' on wildlandnews.com and it certainly made me stop in my tracks to think. The NWS has consistently slashed meteorologist positions that are dedicated to fire weather forecasting. Instead they are making everyone into general forecasters with 'training' in fire weather. If we get an old fire weather forecaster putting out reports, all well and good, but what happens when a general forecaster with 'fire training' is doing the job? The article indicates that the training course ciriculum is put together by NWS, and is not acredited by fire agencies. Now I don't know about the rest of you folks out there, but this doesn't sound too good to me. I have no problem with fire weather forecasters mentoring new people into their specialized field but where does that expertise come from if everyone is just a general forecaster? Mr. Stokols' comments in regard to these changes within the NWS sound like bureaucratic double-talk. I would like to see some thoughts from the rest of you out there on this topic and on IMET availability. Also, I have it on good authority that NICC has hired their own fire weather forecaster away from NWS because of previous problems with them (NWS). I am unsure how far this new arm of NICC will extend but perhaps it is an indicator that fire agencies will hire their own fire weather specialists in the future because NWS can't meet fire needs with their reduced budget. Purple
05/23	Pulaski, thank you for the advice. It worked. True story, I hit 40 last year and within a week my vision changed. I swear I'm not making this up. Anyway,thanks again, Biz.
05/23	Well, I haven't posted in awhile but I got the call yesterday that I am heading to Florida. I am going to be running an engine down the in the Ocala district around Lake George. Anyway, if I don't see everyone before the full swing of the season, everyone stay safe... Darren R-1
05/22	New State Agency Links are up. Some interesting browsing here. Thanks adftr, fireronin, Todd, AL, onea you PA guys, someone from WA, the Hawaiian fire woman, JK, TR and probably some others ... Anyone have any more, send em in. Ab.
05/22	Well, Washington state is dry and has had a few fires so far, today it is headed up to the high 80,s and getting real dry .. anyone working on the west side here, the local fire depts are not up to par yet .. the state is getting there. and me, i am all set to go.. stay safe Engine 88
05/22	R8 Fireguy: Check with R9 fire staff. The Midewin Tallgrass Prairie in Illinois is going to host a new future hotshot crew. Their target date is July 1 to have people on board. Hiring a crew supt., assistant supt., 2 formen and 3 squad leaders plus the 13 firefighters......They are hoping to get some of these folks from the round 3 hiring, but hey, give them a call and maybe there's another avenue open. Old Fire Guy
05/22	Everyone, I know this stuff about the SIT Report is getting to be old, but the lack of a SIT report in html seems so silly to me. Look, wildfire.com is doing a sit report modified to html from somewhere. I appreciate their efforts, but am concerned regarding safety. We really need an alternative to the current NIFC pdf version. However, in retreiving, converting, then posting the SIT report, transpositional mistakes can be made. Suppose one made a simple mistake in the conversion and left out information on a new large fire. What impact might that have on readers or citizens living in the area of the missing fire? The SIT is and will be large enough to make side-by-side comparison very difficult and that would probably be what one would need to do before posting, just to make sure there were no mistakes. Even a single typo in the fires/acres portion might have serious consequences. Readers, I invite you all to check this out - yesterday's sit report that I did as an exercise for Ab to see how difficult the process is. Even working backwards, it's not hard. I did it by cutting and pasting from the nicc archives which were posted yesterday morning: www.wildlandfire.com/docs/sit.htm here are the SIT report archives put up about 0830 daily: www.cidi.org/wildfire/index.html and more specifically, the first one, which is yesterday's, posted in the morning: www.cidi.org/wildfire/ixl20.html It's quite simply amazing that the archive contains the SIT rep in a wonderfully easy content which can be read by ANY browser without the use of a sub-program crutch, yet NIFC still insists on pdf'ing it. What an ass-backwards process. (Scuse my language Ab, but it is!!!) Without checking too closely, it also appears the archive would be 508 compliant and be able to be read by txt readers. Ab, at least we should link to the archived SIT so that readers can have access to it. Wildfirenews.com I appreciate your efforts in providing a html version, but think mistakes could be made. Boise should be doing this job. They make the big bucks (yeah, right). Boise, please just make the SIT report available to folks in quickly-readable html. I know ya'll are probably doing the best you can as quickly as you can, but we need it in html. This is all really silly and potentially compromises safety. Mellie
05/22	Northern CA fire conditions: Yesterday we had a 25 acre fire in the morning and 1 acre of timber in the afternoon. This is quite unusual in MAY. A number of fire folks are shaking their heads and hoping it does not get as bad as it looks. Having a small heat way right now, the grass is cured and fuel is ready to burn. Keep your gear handy and by all means be safe. Heard a rumor that a CDF crew was burned over up north, no details just a "rumor report". If anyone know more... I just hope the crew is O.K. L.A.V.E.
05/22	Pulaski, We are using the Wick 250 currently to meet our contract specs. Having used Mark 3's for years, I personally would pick a Wick 250 anyday! Near equal performance with a much lighter package. Two minor problems that I have found with the Wick are, like the Mark 3, when shutting down but leaving the the pump connected to the hoselay, disconnect the fuel line during cool-down to allow for ALL the fuel in the system to be burned. Leave the fuel line disconnected until ready to restart. This prevents liquid fuel from being forced into the crankcase by siphon or expanding pressure in the fuel tank during non-operational periods. This also prevents fuel residue deposits in the fuel system. (I don't know how it gets through the carburetor, but I have poured fuel out of more than one pump engine!) The second problem is the high-speed cut-out switch. Our switch was really tempermental. I DON'T recommend our solution, de-activating the switch, unless your operators KNOW how to operate pumps and you are pumping from an endless supply! Forget the Mark 3, go for the Wick! Stu
05/22	Ab and All, I have been dubbed Supervisor of Apprentices for Region 8's first two apprentices. They have just completed the basic academy 16 and I want to get them on an organized handcrew. I know this is a little late since most crews have completed hiring, but we selected our second apprentice only 5 days before the last academy started. I have some R5 contacts but I need to expand my possibilities. Region 8 is new to this whole program and we want to provide our apprentices with the best possible training opportunites. If anyone out there knows of any openings (before or after round 3 hiring) I would appreciate their assistance. Thanks R8 Fireguy
05/22	Lo AB, et al. Congrats Tiny. sounds like you have a lot going on. If you want to work an engine this summer (after your 18th) call me and well make some arrangements. Pulaski. I used the wick 250 a few times last summer. They dont have the gusto of the mark 3, but are immensly easier on the ears. I found them easier starting, and less tempermental than the MK3. price wise looks like to me that they are more money. (the wick versions) The wick 375 looks like the same 4 stage head as the MK3 just a different power plant driving it. Never used that one so cant say. If I was looking for another portable. Id buy a MK3. then silence it with a bigger muffler. doesnt take much of a muffler and any home hobbiest should be able to do it. You might lose a little performance, but it would be worth it. there are a million of these things out there, almost every cache has repair parts for them, everyone knows how to operate them, and they are a powerhouse. heres the site I got for the dollar comparison: www.onestopfire.com/pumps.htm. never heard of em till I ran a search. some company out there sells a silenced MK3. ive seen their site. later eric pw
05/22	Regarding the posts from Tired of it in Pa and FD15: Both of these writers have some valid points but this topic has to be put into perspective in light of PA's conservation and fire history. PA was a forerunner of forest conservation as it began buying cut over forests before 1900. Fires were raging and out of control. That current State forest fire laws were begun. It a short time, the State was given the charge of protecting all forests from fire. A fire warden system was passed by law. It established a State Fire Warden, District Fire Warden, and local fire warden. We have a long and proud history of volunteers. The payment schedule still is not minimum wage because it is not a wage or salary. The system worked. Local fire wardens gathered up their crews and reported to the fires. Railroads also supplied labor. Fire companies stayed home to protect the towns. Today, we still have the fire warden system. However, the independent warden's role has decreased over time and the volunteer fire company's role has increased. A fire warden is a legal state officer who can investigate, suppress and train. The DCNR appoints a fire warden in each fire department, provides equipment, training, and handles the various federal grants to rural companies. The fire departments, fire wardens, and firefighters are covered by the State's workmen's compensation. I now offer the following opinions/comments as an individual who is a state employee and a past member of a volunteer fire company and a volunteer ambulance association, I intend no disrespect to the volunteer companies. The staff of the Bureau of Forestry cannot possibly respond to each and every wildfire in one the most populated but yet blessed with wild forested states. Praise be to the VFD. Their service to the people and protection of our natural resources is not appreciated enough. Most wildfires are grass and brush fires. People now call 911 and bazillions of firemen respond. With small fires, no one worries too much about who is the boss. The fires get put out. When the fires get into the woods and one cannot see all of the fire, communication and safety are # one. Thank goodness our fires on the average stay small but once in a while they get big. like they used to. The Camp Fire was one of those. I was not there but this information comes first hand. The fire was remote in steep country and included the west rim in our PA Grand Canyon. The flames were higher than the trees. It crept, it crowned, it was a monster. It was a time for the incident management system. People were put in charge who have vast fire experience including fire boss ratings, strike team leaders, etc. They combine for decades of experience. It was not time for our usual and get away with it clusters. Safety was paramount. It took a plan, it took air resources, it took backfiring, it took firefighters trained for this. Many of the volunteers just showed up were toned out by fire companies on their own. People showed up and were not used to this type of emergency and were naturally agitated if not used or included in the planning. Those who wish to be included should check out a relatively new in-state fire warden specialized crew program. These were used on the fire by folks, mostly VFD members who have trained hard and with many members experienced on western details. If PA ever gets a rash of big fires or urban rural interface fires, we will relearn what we helped the nation learn a long time ago. It will be time when the fire department will be so busy protecting structures, that who is charge of the firestorm will not be an issue. If I am assigned to help protect structures, I will take my orders from the fire chief. The reverse was necessary in the Camp Fire. The recommendation to talk to the District Forester (also the District Fire Warden) is what should be done. Everyone have a safe fire season from one too old to go out west but who is, never-the-less, a proud PA fire eater, both with the State and the VFD. BH
05/21	Reposting my question...someone has to have used these. Im looking for someone who has used a wick-250 or wick-375 portable pump that is willing to pass on a review on its performance/reliability. ..on the sit report issue, I have found that in the pdf version if I click on the little enlarge thingy once, It brings it to an acceptable size to read ok. Thanks Pulaski
05/21	RE: whether the sit report in PDF is hard to read --- It's not you, Ab and Biz, nor your eyes, nor your computer. I have a spiffy computer and 20/15 vision and extremely good light. And that thing is a bitch to read. A PDF will crash some browsers (or even an OS) but it's not hard to read BECAUSE it's PDF. It's hard to read because the person who builds the sit report either doesn't know how to or doesn't care to build a file that's easy to read. I'm not trying to be mean here, just stating fact. ~webgoddess
05/21	There is an html sit report online here: http://wildfirenews.com/fire/sitreport.html It's not there on weekends, but they usually have it up by mid-morning M-F anyway. Firescribe
05/21	GEEEZ, it just gets weirder. For a while there NIFC was posting the sit report in PDF and then adding an RTF version (which they called a text version but which was not a text version). Now the RTF isn't there anymore. Their page says "Current report (in text file format) Unavailable until further notice." What is UP with those people???????????? -disgusted-
05/21	Is it just me or are others having trouble reading the first part of the sit report? I don't know if I need new glasses or a new computer. Thanks, Biz. It is hard to read, isn't it? Eyes aren't as young as they used to be and even with good light. Maybe they could do a darker print even in pdf. I changed the link to the sit report on the links page on Saturday because a slew of readers had e-mailed that the old link address that warns of the upcoming pdf file disappeared and the new arrangement was crashing their computers. Wonder how many people around the fire world are experiencing that phenomenon? Well, our link now goes directly to the pdf sit report. Not the best situation fer sure. Compromising safety? Hope they're working on providing a html version. Ab.
05/21	23, Just to set the record straight, I was not referring to myself in regard to the PT program. There are other reasons as to why I believe that the retirement age should be left alone, but this is not where I choose to discuss them. I have however let my elected representatives in the House and Senate know my position on this issue as I would hope you have. So enough on this subject ..... have a safe, productive summer! Killer
05/20	Ab... Sorry to get ya the information through back channels but you have a pretty good crew that posts here and they tend to pass on all the important stuff. Thanks to all for your congrats for my Eagle and FF1, but strangely I have a suspicion that the real work lies ahead. Maybe I'll meet up with a few of yas as I get signed up for more training and red cards and stuff like that, of course maybe a few of you I've already met... hard to say... Mellie - In my experience, being modest is a good way to go about doing things, but thanks for your enthusiasim all the same. Shyness is not something I'm known for.. modesty is. If you think I'm shy ask me what I think of politics some time <grin>. Here's to all for a safe season. Tiny, the R-6 Fire Pup PS "Pup" ain't no misnomer... I am and still will be a young kid, thanks to one very good man who served as my Admin Chief throughout my Firefighter 1 Academy and who said, "It takes a boy or a girl to be a firefighter, not a lady or a gentleman.. Why you ask? Becasue no true adult would ever want to do what we do."
05/20	its nice to see some of the younger folks that know what and how to get what they want out of life. tiny you are now a eagle scout, a firefighter, and an adult, go out and show the other younger folks what they can do to get somewhere in life, you will go far .. god bless ..
05/20	Mellie, Thanks for giving us a heads up on "PUP" It is refreshing to hear of a young man who is taking great steps to succeed in life. Congratulations on achieving Eagle, "Tiny", it is an honor that few earn. I know how hard it is to obtain. You serve as an inspiration to the many younger Scouts that are hoping to someday be there. I have a 12 year old that is already working on his first class. Keep up the great work!!!! On another note, east Texas is very quickly losing the edge that we had with a wet winter and now all of the sudden all of that rain has brought on a very heavy fuel load looks like its going to be another hot summer. Stay safe, Keith
05/20	For years we had a tiny guy leading our crews. He was so great with the big chainsaw we took to calling him "Small Bunyan." The stature of a firefighter has more to do with character than size. Congratulations to Tiny for his recent accomplishments. BTW, a New York publisher has asked to see my book, Woman on Fire, so I'm sending off the proposal this week. Maybe you'll be able to feature it in your "books" section next year? W-O-F Good luck. Ab.
05/20	congrats tiny, gonna be running with the big dogs real soon!!!!!!!! :-) donna~doser op~support
05/20	Everyone, As regards fed wildland firefighter age, there are two issues here. Manditory Retirement Age (MRA) and Manditory Entry Age (MEA). Senate Bill 3178 introduced by Senator Diane Feinstein would increase the manditory retirement age to 57. (A similar bill HR 460 has already been passed in the House.) Passage of the Senate bill would not only increase the retirement age to 57 but could also increase the MEA to 37, as ff need 20 years of payment into a federal retirement fund. Why shouldn't qualified and experienced firefighters who are somewhat older than 35 be considered for permanent jobs if there is need? Many of the shortages in qualified applicants under the current MEL and counter-attrition hiring are at the DIVS level. We do have more qualified temp people out there who would have applied for such positions if they had had the opportunity. As most of you know, with downsizing and ceilings on permanent positions, there have been minimal permanent and seasonal job opportunities. A bit more info: The MEA is set by agency heads, in the FS case, the Dept of Ag head. It is not fixed by law. Agency heads can grant waivers. Perhaps we need another summer of burning before she decides that the MEA for experienced fireline firefighters can be waived. MEA is waived for pilots when it can be documented that applicants will not be available under current the MEA of 35, why not firefighters? AL
05/20	Killer: I don't know what to tell ya - I can't do P.T. for you, so that part is truly your call. The point is, an arbitrarily determined mandatory retirement age from anything is probably a little more intrusion than most of us need in our lives. As stated before, your ability to successfully perform the duties of your Position Description should be the determining factor in whether or not you retain that position. If you want to retire at 50 or 55, retire - that's cool, nobody's tryin' to rain on your parade; but, keep in mind, one size rarely fits all. What works for you in your world may not necessarily work that well for others. Something wrong with giving the individual & the agency a collective choice in these kinds of decisions? As far as "mentoring" goes, as long as the organizations continue to hire brand new people, you'll never run out of folks to mentor (many of them appreciate the help). I salute you for what you've given the people in the fire world & wish you well in retirement (if that's looming); but, retirement should be your choice if you're acquitting yourself well on the job. 23
05/20	Ab and All, Great site. Have been a firefighter in a small rural town in north western Pa for twenty two years and it is nice to see such a site as yours. Great job and job well done - keep up the good work. Dennis Welcome, Dennis. We have had comments from posters out your way. You could say that we provide the site and the posters provide the trappings that make this a community. Ab.
05/19	Congrats to Tiny, I know how hard it is to attain the rank of Eagle Scout. This accomplishment is one that will be with you for the rest of your life. I'm almost 36 and I still am reaping the benefits!!! So congrats to Tiny. A fellow Eagle Scout, and professional firefighter.
05/19	Everyone, This last year our TINY has been doing the high school thing, SATs, Junior ROTC, applying to universities and racking up the achievements. While he may shy at sharing them, I'm not! Most of us have known him here on theysaid for the last year and a half. (Remember, at first he bent the truth about his age, implying he was 2 yr older than he was! He still won't be 18 until August.) Please join me in offering him BIG congratulations on his good work! Here are a few exerps from some recent e-mails I've received. From Tinypup's Scoutmaster: "Congratulations" to <Tiny>, our newest Eagle Scout! He passed his Board of Review this evening (5/16) with flying colors, and was deemed an Eagle Scout at 1923 by the <snip> District Board members. Our thanks go to them for selecting such a fine example of today's youth for Eagle Scout. Very well done, <Pup>! This is most deserved and I know how hard you've worked to get to this point. Well done <parents>! You've a fine young man in <TinyPup>. And from Tiny: Effective 18 May 2001 at 2052 hours, I was promoted to the rank of Firefighter in <snip> County, Washington and have recieved Firefighter 1 Certification in the State of Washington. Pretty cool huh? Man it's been a busy year.. and in 18 days I Graduate from High School.. Man.. I'm one tired Pup! Ab, I know we don't put up much personal info about people, but I want to say that "Tiny" or "TinyPup" is something of a misnomer. You know those dogs that are born small but within moments have REALLY BIG feet that they then proceed to grow into? Well this TinyPup is one'athem! and lets hope he doesn't get much bigger! or, as my mom used to say, "we'll have to find a place for that 'pup' outside!" CONGRATS, Tiny, for multiple jobs well done. May you continue to DO US PROUD! Mellie
05/19	Hi everyone -- Just another heads up before anyone gets too involved in going out and purchasing BDUs from private vendors.....I realize GSA is behind in production, but there are some rumors lurking out there, that if anyone purchases the BDU style nomex pants from other than required sources, they may have to pay for it out of their own pockets (if you want to and it's NFPA approved -- that's your choice -- although spendy!).....just be aware, and maybe check with your units on the policy in place before making any purchases. Cache Queen
05/18	Ash There are a few vendors selling "BDU style brush pants" or variations thereof. Heres a partial list and personal thoughts: National Fire Fighter Corp., Eugene OR -- 6.0 oz. nomex; sized S M L XL etc., standard inseam sizes; cheesy metal zipper Cascade Fire Equipment Co., Medford OR -- 7.5 oz. nomex; custom sewn to your size; good heavy nylon zipper Wildfire Pacific -- Portland OR -- 6.0 oz. nomex; S M L XL etc., standard inseam sizes; the metal waist tabs dig into your waist Supply Cache, Ft. Collins CO -- 6.0 oz. nomex; custom sewn to your size; suspender buttons; sized smaller than usual JG Enterprises, Mayaquez Puerto Rico -- 7.0 oz. Advance (kevlar/nomex blend); S M L XL etc., button fly; reinforced crotch; best pants on the market and the price reminds you of it National, Cascade, and Supply Cache will make their pants in Advance if you want to pay $50 more. Advance looks nice but is thick material can get your "black leg" itching if its hot outside. Advance also deteriorates due to UV faster than nomex. My personal choice is the Cascade pants cause of the zipper and heavier nomex. They will do custom work also. I had some Nomex IIIA material shipped from Southern Mills in a **different color**, sent to Medord, and requested some knee reinforcements added onto their standard design. We'll be "stylin' and profilin'" this season. Blue Light
05/18	Series 462 and 455 are updated. Ab.
05/18	23, While you may have some valid points in your mind......get a clue...the youth needs room to grow and our mentoring should be DONE prior to reaching 55 (or 50 depending the retiree's viewpoint). Wishfully thinking, a vigorous PT program is part of ALL of our daily regimes. You are absolutely correct in the statement that there are still some very sharp minds out there past 55.....duh. Obviously there are two sides to every position and mine happens to be that if you have info worth passing on then you have already passed it on and are probably past due for a well deserved retirement at 50 with the option being 55. Are two more years going to provide you the perceived time you need to pass on the experience you haven't already passed to the youth?? I think not. I respect your position but think you need to take another look at "your agencies" youth and mentoring program.. Killer
05/18	Recently, Stephen Pyne wrote a book called "Year of the Fires". Here, he attempts to give sufficient detail in order to help the reader arrive at his/her own conclusions. His book was reviewed for the New York Times. The NYT reviewer summed up this way: "The problem...., is that ..Fire suppression is bad and does not work. Prescribed burning is good but does not work either.... However, (Pyne's) implied conclusion is obvious. Government has to give up fighting fires in the wild and allow the normal cycle of growth, fire and regrowth to be restored, after which controlled burning may be safely used. Given his obvious desire to contribute to the policy debate over forest management, Pyne would have done better to shrink his narrative and expand his thesis." In other words, the reviewer isn't convinced Pyne has the answer. John

05/18	Re: Killer & Old Boy & the 55 retirement age: Hey, guys, we've got P.T. thresholds that were not in place when 55 was designated the mandatory retirement age. Theoretically, these thresholds should prevent the old, sick, infirmed, & out of shape folks from being on the fireline. Check out the airline pilots - there's a bill in congress that will eliminate their mandatory retirement age. There's lots of folks out there in the fire world who are approaching 55 who have lots left in the tank. Why not lift the mandatory retirement age & allow folks to make their own choice, providing they can maintain the P.T. thresholds. Think about it - what do suggest the mandatory retirement age for a brain surgeon should be? A lawyer? A baker? A candlestick maker? A pool boy? Some federal firefighting organizations might not be as "deep" as you seem to think yours is. &, BTW, you might be missing out on some pretty good people who want to give to the fire mission who happen to be over 35. "Can you still perform the duties of your position" should be the sole criteria of whether you are retained in that position - not an arbitrary age affixed to that position over 30 years ago. Experienced, creative thinkers & doers are welcome in my fire camp anytime. 23
05/18	Tired of it in PA, I understand how you feel about the Camp Kline Fire. I had two crews, brush unit and tanker there 3 days. and the crews from Lycoming and Clinton County's told me that DCNR would not let them put the fire out and kicked them off the fire every day in the afternoon but called them back every morning to just stand around. Being in Forest District 10 this is not how we fight fires, we have a great working relationship with DNCR District 10 personnel and they are helpful in obtain equipment, reimbursement, and working with us. In District 12 rumor has it the they don't want volunteer fire department on wildfires. Hang in there don't let them push you out. Suggestion to you is to have the county fire chief meet with DCNR and iron things out. My district forestry were upset at what I told them about the fire management. FD10
05/18	engine 88, I am familiar with the MN problem. Resources are "held back" from availability to cover the DNRs' ass. Due to mismanagement of human resources the MN DNR is very uncertain how many firefighters will actually show up to fight fires. Last fall although their official list indicated they had 800 available firefighters they had to call in out of state resources because less than 80 firefighters were willing to show up at a major fire. This cost the state half a million dollars additional just for the out of state personnel alone and they were embarrassed when I brought it to the attention of the legislature this winter at a series of hearings I was asked to testify at. The DNR officials responsible sent an employee to each hearing that was unable to answer the questions posed about the fast deteriorating situation in MN...which really pissed off the legislators after the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hearings. It is likely that as a private contractor you are running into the same problem that MN "casuals" have had for a long time. You are being held in reserve to cover a probable shortage of experienced firefighters that is so severe that there are not enough to man the engines and other equipment the MN DNR has invested millions in over the past decade. They don't seem to care that by holding you in "unpaid standby" they may be ruining your business any more than they cared that they were screwing their firefighters out of valuable experience and paychecks they could have gotten elsewhere. Priority number one for MN Fire Management is CYOA at all costs. Contact me...I may be able to help. Dana Linscott Vice Chair Minnesota Wildland Firefighters Association