These photos are from Marcia Shorter, a recreational boater on Roosevelt Lake who was in the right place at the right time. PBY is a belly-scoop air tanker on contract with the Washington State DNR.

I hope to have some killer shots of the Chelan fire coming you way soon.

J.Foster, Highlands 26.

Nice action shots. I put them on AirTankers 6 photo page. Ab.

I found these pictures of PB4Y-2 Tanker 123 and thought you would like to add them to your other photos of Air Tankers and list them as In Memory of PB4Y-2 T-123 as you did with the C-130A T-130.

Jerry, an Air Tanker Buff.

Thanks Jerry. I put them on the bottom of AirTankers 5 photo page. Ab.

If you really want to get into it, you can go to our Links page under News and look at situation reports by Geographic Area (GACC). If you go on down to Weather, you can check NOAA Satellite images for infrared and smoke patterns. If you go to Geographic, you can check the GeoMac site for topography and fire perimeter. Sometimes you can luck into extra photos of large fires on the Incident Management Team websites. The list of Team sites are linked under Federal Pages on the Links page.

Just a few ideas for people lookin' and hopefully save answerin' a lot of e-mails. Ab.

COMMON DENOMINATORS OF FIRE BEHAVIOR ON TRAGEDY FIRES

Five common denominators that contribute to accidents/incidents have been identified through studies
of tragedy fires. It is important for firefighters to readily recognize the following common denominators so that future
tragedies can be prevented:

• Most incidents happen on smaller fires or on isolated portions of larger fires.
• Most fires are innocent in appearance before unexpected shifts in wind direction and/or speed results in flare-ups or extreme fire behavior. In some cases, tragedies occur in the mopup stage.
• Flare-ups generally occur in deceptively light fuels, such as grass and light brush.
• Fires run uphill surprisingly fast in chimneys, saddles, gullies, and on steep slopes.
• Some suppression tools, such as helicopters or airtankers, can adversely affect fire behavior.
The blasts of air from low-flying helicopters and airtankers have been known to cause flare-ups.

Ab,
Sorry I struck a nerve. In retrospect I see how it appears to be tossing rocks. I am sure lots of federal fire professionals have worked long and hard to provide the fire protection plan we now have. >From the outside looking in it still appears to be patched together and far less integrated than such a vital service should be. The efficiency of multiple bureaucracies attempting to coordinate with each other while each ones' bean counters attempt to shift "fire dollars" into non fire related programs as much as possible appears, from the outside, wasteful and dangerous. For Gods sake, most fedfire agencies don't even recognize experienced firefighters as professionals. It appears from the outside that a lot of thought has gone into a long series of mitigating programs rather than an integrated fire suppression effort. Having said that.. what exists now does pretty well with the resources they have. My main issue with the age thing is that there appears to be at least a "decade" of experience being wasted by the current age restrictions. If they are being recruited as ADs successfully and integrated into the fire management effort then that issue is moot. Regardless I don't advocate 50 year old FFs being "recruited" for permanent positions.

I think the "news agencies" including CBS have discovered that they get much more interesting stories if they look further than the "media handlers" provided by federal agencies in response to requests for interviews and information. The "pertinent information" they receive from those sources tends to be pretty "dry" and is often provided simultaneously to all the media. For better or worse as wildfire has become a "better story" they are going further and further beyond the "normal channels" for their stories. I think if you look closely you will see that they often feature some of the same issues discussed on this forum shortly after they are posted. Hmmm.

Fireronin

Keep safe and remember that a house is only a material thing.

Red Army Wife

"Meanwhile, in the Almanor Ranger District of the Lassen National Forest,
where Engine 11 was based, friends and colleagues of the trio killed made
plans to attend a memorial service for Self tonight.

The service will be held at 7 p.m. in the Westwood High School Gym, said
Rebeca Franco, a National Forest spokeswoman.

Thanks DG. Ab.

----------------------
any stats on the percentage of contract aircraft that have gone down this year? contract vs agency
owned/maintained/operated?

re Fireronin ronin is an ancient term Japanese for an outcast Samurai is this guy just a pot stirrer, an ex FF, or
some wannabe?

on a diff note: a 1st yr ground pounder is asking me for advice about how to avoid FLEAS in fire camp.......... sounds like a wonderful topic to introduce to They Said as a defuser, or maybe it would just open up a new can of worms. (*L* I read the info on my dog's monthly flea stuff, not for human use!)

Northzone5

Damian

www.nifc.gov/news/nicc.html at bottom. Ab.

Jack V

Sign on SanDiego News is reporting:

After dispatching a force of 450 firefighters by Monday night, the force was
augmented to nearly 1,400 on Tuesday. Firefighters attacked the fire this morning
with 85 engines, 11 helicopters, nine air tankers, six bulldozers, and 31 fire crews.

CDF Engineer

That one is up on the current FIRES 2002 list. Link at the top of theysaid. Ab.

M

Been working hard here of late and have'nt had time to check the postings, but I'll throw my hat into the ring on Inmate Crew usage. I have worked with inmate Crews in the State of Utah and I have to agree with BC Davis posting of 7/28. The "Fellas" as we called them were some of the best Type 2 Crews I've had the privilege to work with. Skilled in the Art of WF, in great shape to do the job, did'nt bitch and not one discipline problem. Perhaps some of the other postings were correct in their assessment as well, but speaking from experience, I agree with BC. I say "Right On" to the inmate crews out there and the personnel who are in charge of the Crews. Keep up the good work and hold your heads up high !!! Perhaps some of the "naysayers" lack the experience of working on fires with these Crews, but if you get the chance, talk to some of these guys and gals and you'll find out their human beings just like you and me." Paying their debt to society" ? I think so !!

Themac

Granted, we have deficits in staffing of STL and other mid- to upper- level supervisors. On a whole, our work force is somewhat less experienced. Ten years ago we could call on our captains whenever we needed division group supervisors. Now we're lucky if captains are STL trainees. It's the Bat Chiefs that are division group sup qualified.

If we changed the mea, would we pick up many more that are division group supervisor qualified? I wonder. Let me point out that even if people in current positions are not as qualified as in the past, the way the system is set up, they still work within their capabilities and redcard quals. If we're short sups, we pull crews off and let it burn.

As Ab said, we're doing our best to get folks trained both in the classroom and on the job. Many (in R5) who retire continue to serve the agencies as trainers and mentors and fill-in in other ways. It is my opinion that we do not need to change retirement or MEA rules, simply fight fire safely, continue to train and mentor those less experienced and let the experience level rise. It may or may not take 10 years. Experience depends on where you are, what's going on, who's sponsoring you and supporting you. Some people see more fire and gain leadership skills faster than others. (Some few never learn even with the classroom and OJT we're dishing out.)

In my opinion, it would be beneficial if there were a few more bucks in the budget to allow each of our upper level FMO type folks to have a "shadow" so that when they retire there is someone to step into their shoes. Don't know if that will happen, though.

Regarding this summer and shortages. I would venture to say that if we had the same staffing levels as in the late 70s or early 80s, we would still be short this summer. This summer fire is different, vegetation is different, climate is different. Fire season started early and with a vengeance. Already I see people stressed, stretched and tired and we still have 2 months to go. Yup, this would have been a marathon year regardless, even if staffing was at pre-RIF levels. Generally I feel that on the fires I've been on we're doing our best to put safety first.

NorCal Tom

Here's a report: www.abcnews.go.com Condolences. Ab.

As far as the media goes, if CBS news is really interested, they should contact the people that can answer their questions directly.

Ab.

Reading Cache Queen's comments as well as DW's, I have a few of my own. Removing just the "small brush, slash and understory" will help to keep fires from crowning when the ignition source is nearby but not from a rapidly moving fire front. 90 plus years of fire suppression has contributed to millions of acres of forested lands that are choked with vegetation, heavy down material and dead and dying stands. This is the reality of today. Debates may be conducted that seek to blame this or that for the situation we find ourselves in. However, we must deal with reality and not blame.

Removing only "small brush, slash and understory" does not go far enough to treat the problem. Thinning needs to include removal of larger understory trees than just those less than 10-12 inches dbh. Turn of the century photos portray open forests with little to no fuel ladders. Most small trees and brush were killed through frequent light intensity fires. 90 years of fire suppression has permitted numerous trees to grow into the mid to upper canopy levels. Today, we are faced with many forested areas that are dying from competition between trees, insect attacks and shading out. As these trees die, they create snags, a dangerous hazard to firefighters, and eventually increased down fuels. Research has shown that the past 100 years has been wetter than normal. It is being suggested that we are returning to a more normal, possibly below normal, rainfall pattern. Our forests are too densely stocked to support this over abundance of trees. Thinning is the most realistic method of reducing stocking while reducing fuel ladders and fuel loadings. This is not to suggest that thinning should remove the larger trees. Thinning should concentrate on removing the smaller trees sizes; but, were needed, some larger trees should also be removed until the desired stocking is reached.

Commercial thinning combined with precommercial thinning and down fuels cleanup would help to return forests to the more open conditions pictured in the late 1800s to early 1900s. It would reduce our reliance on imported timber, provide jobs, and reduce the cost of treatments. Lower treatment costs would permit more acres to be treated each year with the limited funds available. If any real headway is to be made in correcting this problem, commercial thinning (logging) needs to be an integral part of the mix.

As a long term R5 employee, I have prescribed, within numerous constraints, thousands of acres of this treatment method. Fuel ladders and down fuels were removed while the bigger trees were retained. It has been tested by fire and works. I sincerely hope that we are provided the opportunity to practice forestry that has been proven to work.

DAS

Another good page Thinning project shows how little damage was done by the fire in areas that were thinned. I wish we had the freedom to do this without so many roadblocks to the process. It makes sense.

I wish there were more websites for California fires. If anyone knows of other photos of how fire acted in thinned areas, please let me know. I saw the link that k or kelly provided.
DV

The R5 web is not quite up to par this fire season, but you could check the Wild Fires 2002 list which is up to date. Ab.

Nancy, we can't publish it because of copyright laws, but the thoughts are nice. Ab.

More details on the rollover
www.redding.com

News release of condolences regarding the loss of firefighters on the Lassen engine
Lassen National Park website. The file is in pdf, but is small. Memorial information
will be coming out of this website we have been told.

Good job, Abs. We appreciate your efforts at keeping the wildland fire community
appraised of what is happening.

Remain vigilant.
Original Firescribe

r-6 here. we got our buts kicked yesterday. evacs of 5,000 people and loss of two homes. more winds expected today

hope we can hold our own
r-6

NO firefighter clothing is meant to prevent injuries from "direct contact" with flame. Your injury is an example. Protective clothing is only meant to protect you from radiant heat and metabolic heat, and in cases of structural clothing, exposure to conductive heat through the fire atmosphere and through thermal barriers. Even ARFF proximity suits are just that....PROXIMITY SUITS.... protection from the radiant heat and not the actual flames.

Yes, you will counter....... but if I had a second layer?.... I wouldn't have gotten the burn.

Maybe if you were a little closer with that second layer... it may have gotten your airway singed and not just your arm. Thanks for us, you didn't.

I love your posts even though I don't always agree with you (actually, I agree with you alot of the time). It is nice to come here and just discuss the issues that affect all of us firefighters. Its great when we finally find the middle ground.

SoCalCapt

Please be safe out there my friends!!

Mellie, I await your arrival with bated (or baited) breath.

Firehorse

Here is something else to consider. Why did Sen. Daschle need to have legislation to eliminate these projects from NEPA when he had already cut a deal with the Sierra Club? Because other environmental groups would have tied up these project in appeals and litigation. If the compromise had been as good as everyone said it was it should be able to stand up to the NEPA process without undue delay. This just verifies that the process has become corrupted.

It is also enlightening to note that the Black Hills portion of the legislation was passed by slipping it into a unrelated bill, that Sen. Daschle did not want debate on the subject.

Here is the Sierra Club trying to back-pedal after getting caught with their pant down. www.sierraclub.org/logging/fires_july26.asp

Sen. Daschle's website is strangely silent on the subject. http://daschle.senate.gov/
6

CDF Mike from Arroyo Grande

The engine that rolled over was from the Lassen National Forest, based out of Chester.
Those who perished were
Steven Oustad, 51 of Westwood CA
Heather DePaolo, 29 of Redding
John Self, 19 of Susanville

The two who were injured and are at Mercy Medical in Redding are
Alex Glover, 19 of Susanville
Ryan Smith, 20 of Susanville

The unofficial prognosis for the survivors looks good. We will post memorial service info when it becomes available. It is unknown right now exactly what happened. The Fire News articles have some information from the PIOs.

Ab.

WOW!! that's about all I can say after the Tanker 123 crash and now the news this morning regarding one our own Engines going down in a rollover on the Klamath... It's never easy when you hear about people you know or had the pleasure of knowing... I have a few good trinkets from the crew of Tanker 123 and even have a few pics of the pilot with his Tanker.. I will send the pic once I get it scanned..

To those who died on the Engine this morning, My heart and Prayers go out to those on the other crews and to their families and children, etc... MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL and May God help those 2 others survive. Please keep us posted on when the services for those folks will be held...

To all of you out there involved in the firefighting whether red, green, white, etc it doesn't matter whether you fight from the ground, the air, up in the lookouts, or behind the consoles, you all have hearts and souls of Gold and you all are truly UNSUNG HEROES.. You never get the credit that all you deserve... I do hope that the tragedies that have occurred recently begin to dwindle down soon.. Is it me or has there been a lot of fatalities this fire season?

My condolences to the families, friends, coworkers, etc... of those who died this morning and to those who have died giving it their all and fighting the fight...

May you all Stay Safe and GOD BLESS,

C'More Illusions

My problem with inmate crews has nothing to do with cost, or with how well an inmate crew does/doesen't perform. Furthermore, I treat all humans I meet with respect until they prove otherwise. As for your treatment when in fire camp, how to you expect free people who you are taking assignments and jobs from to treat you? (You in general referring to the entire crew.)

My problem is this: I am a free citizen, I've invested the time and money to get trained and prepared myself for a job that I am waiting to be called on to perform. The fact that incarcerated individuals are out there right now performing that job angers me greatly. As meko9 said "aced out of work by criminals". I don't believe it could be said in a better way. Try this in most other professions and see what would happen! LOL! Why should it be any different with wildland fire? I truly can't understand why this is allowed to go on. Free citizens that contribute to society (again see mako9's posting) should, without a question, be given preference over incarcerated individuals. It's a moral question, and hits home especially hard when you are not working. They should do their time, in jail, until their debt to society is paid.

firewhirl

Forest management has been hamstrung from abuse of NEPA by preservationists and Daschle's bill is a backdoor acknowledgement of that. An unintended consequence of this is a backlash from the motorized recreational use organizations. One organization in my state has a bumper sticker which states "Wilderness, land of NO uses!"

Multiple use may be a hard pill to swallow for some, but that is what enabling legislation intended.

Right on Cache Queen!
6

I’d like to throw my 2 cents worth into the question you asked Cache Queen about what "Reasonable Logging" is. A couple of opening statements about my perspective for the sake of clarity and so you don’t over-do free speech with the "maybe" word to take a shot at my integrity. I’ve been in the wood products business for awhile ( I’m one of those guys that used to fight fire for USFS and wore jeans and a khaki shirt that SoCalCapt talked about) That said, I’m not speaking for forest products companies, just my own experience and observations as a life long resident of rural America, a wildland firefighter, and a logger of one sort or another over the years

I’m not sure what your historical research has been on these topics but both thinning and logging on the same operation was common at one time. At the same time it reduced much of the brush as fuel load as a normal part of the logging operation. This defrayed the cost of thinning, brushing and fuel load reduction to the USFS as they were generating revenue rather than spending tax payer money for the same end result. If you want to do your home work go back to the RARE 1 and RARE 2 reports (1970s I think), and the SNEP (Sierra Nevada Ecological Report), mid 1990s. When you study these works and what they advocate, and think about what was implemented, then consider the HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS today as compared to when we scraped tried and proven techniques of forest management for unknown ideas and lesser known agendas.

The Honorable Mouse

In that writeup, they find that 2/3 of the heat that firefighters are subjected to is metabolically generated, and only 1/3 comes from the fire. Their advice is that fire PPE should "let heat out, not keep heat out"! Most Aussies fight fire with a single layer jump suit, no gloves and sleeves rolled up.

The USFS-designed shirts and trousers are designed to allow air flow, which is critical for cooling; the Nomex material will give a fire fighter 20-30 seconds of protection from burns, enough time to get away from the heat source, or deploy a shelter. Another important body cooling factor is the head: ever hear the old saying that "if your feet are cold, put on a hat"?? Some studies show that 20-30% of heat loss occurs through the head. Cover it up, either with a knit hat, or with a face/neck shroud, and you reduce the amount of heat loss that can occur. Great in Winter, bad in fire season!

Structural firefighters go for complete body coverage, because of the needs of their job, but only have to work for a max of 20 minutes before their air supply runs out. Wildfire/Bushfire folks have to look at a much longer work period, with the cumulative heat stress effects mounting up over several days.

There are a growing number of reports of heat stress injuries and also a fatality among firefighters going with double-layers and full-time use of the face/neck shroud.

Looks like an area that needs some more study......?
Mollysboy

DG

I just spoke with the Information Officer on that fire who confirms that there was a single vehicle rollover at about 0200 and that 3 firefighters have died. Two more are injured and have been transported to the hospital. Condolences. I have great sadness at this news. The roads in northern California around Happy Camp are small with many treacherous curves. The terrain is very steep. Smoke is thick.

To all who are fighting fire, BE SAFE!

Ab.

is your only experience with inmate fire fighters just with cdf? i run a con crew with ndf and we do one hell of a job on fires. yes, the cost is less then a free crew but the tax payers are getting more for their money then you think.

i have been on free, type 2 crews for years. i would put the crews i have run the last 2 seasons against any free crew i have been on. why do i say this? my crew is disciplined, my crew is loyal, my crew is in excellent shape and trained to do the job. yes my crew is full of bad boys. but when you can take hard asses from prison and turn them into a effective fire tool then you really have something. their motivation is the attitude that they receive from folks like you. they want to prove to everyone that even though they screwed up in life, they can make a difference on a fire. i was at the martis fire outside of reno nv last year. it was my first major fire with ndf. i was totally disgusted on how we were looked upon. it was like we were the red headed step children. but ya know what? on the fire line, we did our job. we were effective, safe and had no injuries. we did just as much work ( if not more ) then other crews. we make a difference. we are around when the kids go back to school. we are around for floods, truck wrecks, or any other incident that occurs.

dont sell con crews short. when you run into one, at least try to give the crewboss some respect because he/she has a tough job. not dealing with his or her crew but dealing with the attitudes of others.

BC Davis

ps, ab i need glasses and am too stupid right now to get them so excuse the spelling

Get a grip! I'll visit next time already.

Mellie

Dear Editors:

Every year over 100,000 wildfires break out across the U.S., and this summer has seen the most destructive wildfires in Colorado and Arizona history, consuming acres by the hundreds of thousands.

But have you ever considered who the men and women that battle these fires are, what keeps them motivated against such formidable foes and why they respond to the Fire Call?

Log onto NationalGeographic.com’s Fire Call as Idaho wildland firefighter Norbert Schuster explains how beating back wildfires has impacted his life. Listen as he reveals why he continues to fight these life-threatening behemoths up to 14 hours a day, several months out of every year. Poignantly, the squad boss recounts one of the most harrowing days of his career.

For the entire full story, please visit: www.nationalgeographic.com/firecall.

Maxine Broderick
On Behalf of NationalGeographic.com

DW

A couple of other ideas to enhance the nostalgic nature of this post. For breakfast, make up a bunch of scrambled eggs, dye the eggs green and gray (not sure how to get that gray effect), put 'em in the fridge several hours, then remove and let stand in the sun in an area with plenty 'o flies prior to eating. Don't forget to make your lunch the day before and freeze it overnight. Remove early the next morning, put it in a plastic sack and tie it to your belt behind you, so's you have the opportunity to sit on it frequently before enjoying at lunch time. Ab.

I'm think'in I'd enjoy miss'in a few fires, rather than be behind bars 'n fences between times. Though I'm pleased to have missed fire whirl's experiences also. Ab.

Wow! Such bitterness! I never considered politics as being a factor. Though there might be
something to that, I strongly suspect that economics is a more likely reason. A 17-man or
woman Inmate-Firefighter Crew costs $17.00 per hour for the whole Crew, plus wages for
the Crew Captain and Corrections Personnel. Much cheaper than a a Crew staffed by free
people. What part of your agency's budget are you willing to cut in order to pay for the huge
increase in funds needed to provide the equivalent firefighting power with free staff, firewhirl?
And I am sure that "firewhirl" has absolutely no conception of the conditions these Inmate
Firefighters work under. Though it has its moments, few would describe their experience at
the end of the season as "enjoying the backcountry".

BTW - I haven't had a traffic ticket in nearly 10 years myself, and I have to do very nearly
the same damned difficult dirty and dangerous duty myself. Shoulda stayed in school. Maybe
it's not too late for you, firewhirl.

CDF Mike from Arroyo Grande

I must bow before one much wiser and astute in the ways of the political world than this lowly retired groundpounder. I am humbled in your presence, although be it in my computer. I feel I have brought shame to our friendship (even though you drove by my humble community on your vacation last year and did not grace me with an audience!) and I beg forgiveness. Because I am suffering such humiliation, I will report to the nearest ICP morning briefing, at which time I will, before national TV, throw myself upon my chrome-plated retirement pulaski. I beg your forgiveness Mellie and can only hope and pray that I have not cast an unpenetrable cloud over our relationship!

You have brought up some points that I had not considered. Well done as usual Mellie.

Your humble servant, footstool and fan,
Firehorse

6: From 18-34 was a ski bum (and still am!) and worked nights as a line cook, saute and grill work. Didn't get introduced to wildland fire till this year.

andy s, david g, jessica a : start sending applications out. check the jobs links here at wildlandfire.com. send out more applications. hope and pray. then send out more applications. make sure you're around your phone or pager. then send out more applications.

I understand we have lots of groundpounder rookie crew available, but there are two points that bother me as a trained and tested rookie who hasn't yet been called out:

1. See the posting below by IvansGirl on 7/23.

2. I'm sure it's been said before by many, but why the hell are there inmate crews on duty when a law abiding citizen like me who hasn't even had a traffic ticket in 10 years is working some crappy fill-in job? They screwed up, why should they enjoy our backcountry and fighting fire? Let's keep them in the can where they were sentenced to be, good behavior or not. I know that sounds harsh, but it's their problem. Ah politics.

Thanks all for the recent great postings.
firewhirl

P.S. It's logical: if the rookies don't get out there will continue to be a lack of experienced firefighters and leaders out there in the future.

RE: Daschle language.....things are heating up! Arizona is upset and which state will be next? Oregon, Montana, and oh my goodness....could California want their piece of the action too!

Politically someone had to take the first step in doing the right thing! The swirl of emotions, comments, bashing...etc is just part of the process that will take place over the next couple of weeks. Those (extreme environmentalist) who are apposed to proper management of forest and rangelands are in a frenzy to stop any additional states from joining in. Long term of this means "Jobs in the Woods".

If you ask the people of Deadwood SD how they feel right now, they would say that this should have been done a long time ago. They are now faced with the second part of fire and thats the potential of flooding. Their properties are even at greater risk now than ever before. The next couple of weeks should be interesting on the political front.

r3firetaz

Hey, I think Daschle did something, started something with his rider that
needed to get started.

I take it you're viewing his action as a way he could support his constituency
while sneaking out of having to deal with the issue. Maybe... Instead, I think
he couldn't see any action coming from the Congress going the usual routes,
and decided to put a "foot in the door" to crack the impasse. The fact that he's
the majority leader of the Senate makes his foot even larger. As far as party
goes, I can use the fact that he's a Democrat when I talk with environmentalists
(extreme and otherwise) who need to be educated. If a Republican had done
this, it wouldn't carry the potential for changing the minds of Democratic
environmentalists, in my estimation.

I guess I still wish change in this country could occur more reasonably and
gracefully with all people playing by the rules. The "pork" stuff pisses me off...
as well as fire money designated by congress for FIRE going to other FS
areas and exorbitant cost pools. Oh well. Politics.

Hug to you, my friend!
Mellie

Several with more details on the deployment:
www.bendbulletin.com
www.oregonlive.com/newsflash

Daschle perspective:
www.arizonarepublic.com

I am a New Zealand base Wildland Fire Fighter. Currently doing a study course on fire. investigation. I would welcome corresponding with other fire fighters in the field on any fire related subjects. I also would like to hear from HotShot teams. One of my hobbies is collecting Patches from different fire departments.

Our brigade is situated in central north island, Rangitikei Rural Fire Service - our crew (15) members Our district is quite large and we work with our sister station Kiotatia and urban brigade's Marton & Bulls. We train weekly throughout the summer from October to April and then fortnightly in the Winter April/October. During the winter months we have theory exams and NZQA qualifications adding to our Red card qualifications.

We have two engines, one turns into a Command Unit at and the other a four wheel drive Hilux.

Currently, it is winter in NZ, but as August nears, so does our Spring arrive. This year, our winter has not really been cold, more wet than anything. The heavy laden moisture content will be a great start to our fire season no doubt.

If anyone would like to correspond with me, it would be much appreciated

Kind regards
Dianne

I just stopped laughing my ass off for about an hour. I never was a wildlands FF, but your ryhme hit home because I used to be an Infantry squadleader. Thanks for the laugh, you brought back some good memories.

Riley

Think about this everyone! Here we have a Senate Majority Leader and a Democrat on charge to run a road block for appeals and litigation, basically giving way to to federal land managers in his state to conduct business in a reasonable and responsible fashion.

The last administration with Democrat VP Gore at the helm almost brought conservation to its knee's. Lets look at this, conservation = wise use of resource (a republican stand point) and preservation = no use of resources (historically a democratic veiw point). The last administration created many new monuments with the end goal of preservation in mind.

Forest and rangeland health depends on conservation practices to prevent large dangerous wildfires. This language is going to the president for signature. This clears the way for South Dakota. The balance of the remaining states can then worked out in the near future! Someone should send Daschle a thankyou for setting the stage and tackling this issue.

r3firetaz

I strongly encourage each of you reading this website to bring up and read the article mentioned in a 7/24 post from CI concerning Senator Tom Daschle. I hope it will piss off each of you as much as it did me. To think that this man, who is the majority leader of the Senate, would try to slide thru a rider hidden in a defense bill that exempts his home state from any and all environmental challenges to logging on federal lands is a travesty. In my opinion it is a slap in the face to every person in the remaining 49 states, every wildland firefighter that has to face down the "Dragon", and every homeowner that has lost or had a home threatened.

I hope it makes you angry enough that you will take the time to fire off a message to Daschle and your own politicians in the House and Senate. If this had been a republican (No, I am not a Republican) you can bet Daschle and his cronies would have been all over this one like stink on a turd!

Read the posting and get angry enough to fire off those e-mails folks and send the article to your local newspapers and television stations.

Firehorse

so they are activating the military! ah, that takes me back to 2000...when i was sentenced to be an mcad (military crew advisor) 30 days later, and after wasting a perfectly good fire season, a few of us mcads came up with some stuff to make us laugh about our situation. ala. jeff foxworthy, we called it ...you just might be an mcad.

...YOU JUST MIGHT BE AN MCAD.
1. If your crew digs only 5 chains of practice line, and 0 chains of fire line, you just might be an mcad.
2. If you breathe more 2nd hand cig smoke than fire smoke, you just...
3. If you never hear the word "superior" after the word "mother" you just...
4. If your crew refers to their tool, pack and the hill as bitch, you just...
5. If your crew refers to push-ups, scissor kicks and front leaning rest as "gettin' smoked" you just...
6. If your SFC maxes out the 300 lb scale at helibase, you just...
7. If your same SFC uses his inhaler 12 times while ascending "casualty hill", you just...
8. If at every sit-down break a "spades" game breaks out, you just...
9. If you are referred to as "sir" the first two weeks of your assignment, you just...
10. If one of your crew members get severely beaten on his birthday, you just...
11. If the only smokes on your division are Marlborough, you just...
12. If your shift, minus briefing and travel is only 3 hrs, you just...
13. If your crew cold trails with their lips and nose, you just...
14. If your crew asks for a smoke break "in order to inflate their lungs" be for climbing a big hill, you just...
15. If you deploy 0 ft of hose, but pull and butterfly 10,000 ft, you just...
16. If your crew championship wrestles deep into the night at spike camp, you just...
17. If the same ff that had to get jungle penetrator sling medivaced is in the chow line before you, you just...
18. If you plumb a mile of hose in the same division you pull hose from the week before, you just...
19. If your IAP instructs you to patrol and mop up 18 days in a row, you just...
20. If your crew can perfectly impersonate, Eddie Murphy, Michael Jackson, and all rappers, you just...
21. If one of your crew members loses his bad feet profile because he was hip-hoppin' to karokee during R&R, you just...
22. If one of your crew members suffers dt's from a lack of "church's fried chicken" you just...
23. If the highlight of the day is learning how to play dominos, you just...
24. If the only bars your crew sees are "water", you just...

all in fun, but i did make lots of money. everyone should try it once!
JR

Wildland Firefighter Job Series 0462 and Series 0455 Pages are updated. No new jobs on the Jobs Page.

CAFSman

www.thedailycamera.com

Ancient sequoias threatened by fire -- Blaze in southern Sierra out of control

Firescribe

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The whole article can be read here:

Daschle seeks environmental exemption for his state

CI

Brutus,
God protect me from those who feel they need to protect me from myself.

That would be my "stupid" idea you are talking about. We are not talking about "wannabes" with no experience or ability to think for themselves . These are mature adults with a minimum required number of seasons experience and a needed skill. By age 37 no one should need "big brother" protecting you from yourself.

Tony,
I agree that we don't need a "geriatric" workforce. We also don't need a workforce composed of "young" folks just working to get enough experience to find a better job elsewhere. We need a workforce composed of "young vigorous" firefighters who are paid well enough to stick with the job till they get old and "old experienced" firefighters who know that more fires are extinguished by folks using their heads than folks using their backs. Right now we are having trouble attracting (and hanging on to) enough of the first group to even replace the folks in the second that are retiring. And the firefighting force needs to grow substantially in the next decade.

Similarly there is the safety issue of having enough experienced folks on the line to say "time to run for the black" so we have fewer inexperienced firefighters saying "OH S**T...TIME TO POP MY SHELTER".

Considering that wildfire is projected to continue to be a growing problem for the foreseeable future we need a counter force that is growing proportionately. That is not the case currently. In fact many of the available "young and vigorous" cannot be put on the line due to the current shortage of overhead (read as: "old and experienced"). This bottleneck not only cripples the country's ability to suppress wildfires SAFELY, it affects the yearly income of "young and vigorous" firefighters. This is not a case of "if the old guys work the young will not"...it is more like "if there are not enough old guys available, the young sit on the sidelines and watch" collecting dust rather than paychecks.

Dana

Australian firefighters to help battle US wildfires
23 July, 2002

A senior firefighter from State Forests of NSW will today fly to the USA to determine how Australian firefighters can help to battle forest wildfires sweeping across 12 western American states, the NSW Minister for Forestry, Kim Yeadon, today said.

"For the second time in three years western USA is in the grip of major wildfire emergency and American fire authorities are asking Australia and New Zealand for help," Mr Yeadon said.

"Already, almost 1.5 million hectares of land across a dozen states has been ravaged by wildfire and local firefighters are currently battling more than 50 major fires.

"At this stage in the US fire season the total area of forest