NorCal Tom

1. We were required to have our fire shelters on at all times when I was with El Cariso (So. Calif.) in 1972, so I suspect that that was the year they became required, possibly even a year or two prior to that. NOTE: The big push for testing and research for firefighting PPE (especially fire shelters and such) started after the tragedy of the Loop Fire on the Angeles N.F. where 12 firefighters from El Cariso died (several others severely injured).
2. I'm almost positive orange or yellow Nomex shirts came in 1969 or 1970. I remember I was fighting fires in regular clothing (khaki shirts and Levi's) in Region-4 during the summer of 1968.
3. El Cariso Hot Shots and the other R-5 crews were required to be wearing plastic hard hats during the summer of 1973. We used orange-colored metal ones the year before that. I remember thinking at the time that the bright yellow plastic ones were quite stylish compared to what we were used to.
4. We definitely used drip-torches in 1973 to light backfires on the Cougar Creek Fire (Nez Perce N.F. in Idaho), and I think I saw them in use on the Klamath N.F. the summer before that.

Ab.

MIRPS I have worked with in R5 in early stages and recently. Much better then before. SOPS thing of processing more orders? well maybe so BUT a large number of orders get cancelled within 10 min of ordering. I know, I worked there. ROSS is going to have problems, they know that, but it is the First nationwide agency wide program!!! First year or so will be great for availability, similar to "overstat" BUT better. Some GACCs are using it to send availability to NICC already. Very helpful and cut ordering time. ROSS will be a great system in every agency all across the nation that uses it, including R5.

WILDCAD is a great program, have used it in R5, but again it is only a tool --one that has yearly maintenance with updates. BLM is now suppose to be also using it. R3 in training this winter for use next summer. Problem with some areas -- in BLM they have no response plan!!!! (believe it or not) So WILDCAD will not be much good except as an incident reporting system.

All the programs are just "tools" to assist in getting resources to incidents as fast and safe as possible. They also rely on good dispatchers to operate the programs. Good dispatchers are getting hard to find these days, so if you have good ones on your forest or district feel yourself lucky!!!!

Aircraft Dispatcher (ex-R5, now R3)

I just need to vent a little about this continued heartburn with MIRPS. It WAS a horrible program when it first arrived (believe me, as one of the first sites to get MIRPS, I know what I'm talking about). It was buggy (read bonus features), it crashed frequently (usually at the very worst possible time), and it was incredibly difficult to navigate through (what do you expect from a product built by committee?). Over the last few years it has gotten more and more reliable, and has not had a "huge" crash since 2001. It is still incredibly difficult to navigate, but like any other program, can be learned. And it beats the heck out of hard cards, from my point of view, because I can at least read a MIRPS printout. I have spent many aggravating hours trying to decipher some dispatcher's "chicken scratch" in order to sign off on a billing issue... and that's only if the dispatcher bothered to fill out the pertinent information. It's not perfect, but how many of you want to go back to what we were doing before? (What's supposed to go in all those little boxes again?)

CDF BC, to address the problem with your airplane request, an hour is unacceptable in any realm and I strongly suspect that there were a whole bunch of other problems happening. It's always so much easier to blame the program and not the system. There is NO reason that aircraft could not have been ordered within the 5 minute time frame without it being in MIRPS, and the GACC will not withhold aircraft because it's NOT in MIRPS. We have a perfectly good intercom system and all dispatchers are supposed to know how to order aircraft on it.

ROSS isn't even close to being ready, and when it is, I want it to be perfect. I've already lived through one set of "beta-testing", I'm not ready to do it again. California will put a huge load on the system, and ROSS needs to be able to support our needs. For those of you dispatchers that haven't been to the site yet, you might want to visit http://ross.nwcg.gov and take a look at the product, it is very different from what you have become used to. ROSS isn't even out in production yet. I think three years is optimistic for roll-out to R-5. When it's ready, I think it will be wonderful, but don't call me till it's ready.

And on another note, where is the forest service support and input to the ECCO academy at Ione? At the present time it is the ONLY organized training class for wildland dispatchers, and there is almost no FS participation on the teaching Cadre or in sending adjunct instructors. I hear the same complaints over and over about how it is a "CDF" class and they teach only what's important to CDF, but that will never change if we don't get strong support from the FS dispatch community. At the present time, there is only one FS dispatcher on the cadre (that I know of). As few as three years ago, it was split almost 50/50 FS/CDF and there was a strong feeling of "interagency". If we want our folks to be given the best training possible, we need to support this class. Look at the curriculum and make suggestions, sign up to spend some time there as an adjunct or as an instructor.

I have more to say about the CAD systems, but I'll get off my soapbox for now,
SOCAL DISPATCHER

Remember, Keep it Simple and Keep it Safe
The old man of the Dept.

Honestly I have never dispatched before, and cannot relate to the programs issues, but did start my career in the aftermath of consent decree and do concur with leadership having suffered as a result.

Rocky Mtn

Thanks,
JWA

I'm feeling a little anger, some embarrassment, and feel the need to ask a couple of questions and comment on a couple of items. It's a multi-issue situation and deals mainly with dispatching, so those readers who don't work in a dispatch office may lose interest. However, if you are ever dispatched to fires in Region 5, you may just want to stick around. Those of you outside R5 can also leave now, or what the heck, stay to point your fingers and laugh. I don't have any say in R5 policies or procedures, so I won't feel too bad.

Number one question on my list: Why has R5 failed to promote or implement ROSS? I know some work is being done in the background to help us get ready, but WHY the 3-year foot-dragging? Other regions are so far ahead of R5 that R5 has had precious little input into how the program has been developed. Yeah, I know there are a couple retired R5 folks on the staff of ROSS, hopefully they will remember and help save us.

My answer to my own question is: The USFS in R5 is so far behind the rest of the nation because it is bound too tightly with the California Department of Forestry. That's CDF to most of you, the second largest firefighting department in the world. CDF wants MIRPS, CDF wants Alteris. Those of you who don't know what MIRPS is are fortunate. The frequency of MIRPS breakdowns are legend, the program functions are handicapped to anyone outside an inter-agency center and even the inter-agency centers have such simple problems as printing reports. Bugs (undocumented features) have existed since its beta tests and after repeated feedback remain uncorrected. R5 management, however, continues to support the shared cost of this abortion refugee and wants us to pretend all is copasetic.

Alteris is CDF's concept and promotion of a new computer aided dispatch program. This program, similar to the way MIRPS was hatched, is being rammed down R5 dispatch center managers' throats. The old CDF computer aided dispatch program (CALCAD) has met few of the R5 forests needs over the years but, being good partners, we tried to adapt. I hear rumor there is still one forest located within an inter-agency dispatch center in the region that uses an old tub-file dispatching system rather than use the CALCAD system. A major point in all this is that CDF isn't sure, but it may cost USFS centers who aren't co-located or inter-agency $750,000 per center to have the new Alteris system installed. Just in case any of our Washington based financial leaders are viewing this, you may want to stop nodding off and pay attention here! I said it MAY cost a three quarters of a million dollars per dispatch center! CDF isn't sure because stand alone centers weren't included in the original contract. It might be more! Nobody seems to know, so why don't we go ahead and do it, let's be good partners. It doesn't seem to matter that we already have a great new (USFS friendly) dispatching system in WildCAD already in use throughout the region which only costs a couple thousand dollars per center. BLM has already obtained a national site license, they know a good thing when they see it. But, how much influence does BLM have in an R5 "inter-agency" dispatch center? About as much as the USFS as I see it. Not much.

One last item on my list is the newest update to the MIRPS system. Now I log on to the handicapped, when it works, bug-infested program and get to view a nice little login screen shot of a CDF pickup sitting on a road with a flame front about to pass. Nice. The photo itself isn't a bad shot, it's much better than the old 8 bit image of a cartoonish, pixilated, anonymous gray airtanker. But. . .with an inter-agency, co-dependant system, wouldn't it be better to have a multi-agency representative photo? Way to go not-say-anything-USFS, way to not even ask, CDF. Actually, I have no idea if CDF asked the USFS what they wanted on the photo, I just guess they didn't. This is a small issue, but it supports my main concern.

It appears to me that CDF is dictating to the USFS in R5 about how the fire suppression game will be played and with what programs and communications systems they will participate. Past negotiations and concessions by weak USFS leaders and the willingness of current leaders to accept the status quo have reduced the effectiveness or obligated R5 dispatchers and firefighters to subjugate themselves to the whims of CDF. There was a parable I once read about putting too many of your eggs in one basket. . .the other person might just take possession. I believe the leadership of R5 must refocus on what is best for not only our region, but how they will integrate their responsibilities and obligations to the rest of the nation. R5, who so long appeared at the front for positive change and defined the cutting edge of wildland fire suppression, has become dulled. It's as if the Consent Decree of the eighties and the continuing litigation has taken the willingness to fight out of our regional leadership. Then again, maybe the reason R5 lacks aggressive leadership is due to the effects of the Consent Decree.

Regardless, the future is now being honed and shaped by other Regions across the land and we are being left behind. Being on the cutting edge of philosophy, technology, or strategy means to me that you may view your own blood occasionally. The only blood and sacrifice I see lately are at the middle or bottom of the organizational chart. While I don't necessarily want to see any of my leaders suffer or bleed, I would like to know they are as willing as I am to do so. But I don't think they are. I think their priorities are elsewhere. I wonder if they're too busy eye-balling some nice cushy job after retirement (OES comes to mind) and dislike being viewed as an agitator or malcontent.

My apologies to any of my CDF or other regional USFS brothers and sisters in arms who walk the fireline who take offense at this post, this is not an attack on you or your leaders, it's about my leaders. I merely state my personal views and voice my concerns in the hope that my leaders are made aware of just a few of the ramifications of their decisions, or lack thereof, affecting the women and men who work for them.

ECC1

Ab will add the description to the photo description page for future reference.

The pilot flying T-22 on the Missionary Ridge Fire was Doug Griffen. Great guy. We flew a lot together on that fire.

Nice drop. It shows how the head wall of the retardant gets sheared by the forward velocity and wind. Those small sheared layers show the end of the forward movement. The drop then starts to rain down in into the vegetation as it should. Good drop height.

The P3 (T-22) tank system is what is called a "constant flow" system. It maintains a constant flow rate and head pressure on the retardant as it leaves the tank. You want the retardant to come out at an even, constant flow so that it will be applied on the ground in a consistent coverage level. This then allows the vegetation to be coated in such a manner to help retard the fire. If the retardant comes out of the tank in an uneven manner, there could be gaps in the retardant line or weak spots at lower coverage levels requested and this too could allow the fire to burn through. There are tankers that have a variable flow system, but it acts in the same manner as the constant flow system. It is just designed different and uses a different gating system than the constant flow system. End result for both systems is that you get an even, constant and consistence coverage level of retardant on the ground.

On both systems when the gate or door firsts opens, there is a small amount of retardant that gets caught by the wind and air flow from the aircraft that is called feathering. It is the light mist of retardant that you see trailing the main body of retardant when it first comes out. It consists of about 3 gallons of retardant. It looks like more, but it is really very little. You can see the same feathering too as the last of the retardant comes out. This is because the retardant has lost it's head pressure suddenly and dribbles out. It again is a small amount of retardant.

All retardants as they come out of the aircraft get caught in the slip stream of the aircraft, outside air turbulence and the forward movement of the aircraft. This air breaks up the retardant and is called shearing. Depending on the type of retardant and how it was mixed will depend on how much the retardant is sheared. All in all though the retardant stays together and you will have a consistent drop. When the retardant hits the ground, that is called a footprint. The footprint can change due to wind speed and direction, aircraft speed, tank system, terrain, turbulence, drop height, bank angle of the aircraft and the type of retardant. All of these factors are taken into consideration with either the leadplane pilot, ATGS and the tanker crew. They then will adjust several factors with the aircraft and tank system to give the fire fighter the proper coverage level on the ground. The key being what the fire fighter wants on the ground. Those of us in the air are there for those folks on the ground.

Happy New Year,
Mike Lynn....

Just like I say....It's a beautiful day in the Ozarks....and it was today. Snow is starting to melt and temps were in the 40's and sun shined all day. Now next week could be something else.

Have a good'n
Hickman

TRULY - I WISH YOU ALL JOYOUS HOLIDAYS with a little prep spiel to get you all working on being prepared for new issues. Things that are going to slap us around as soon as the first smoke is spotted and "initial attack" is redefined as blind men walking to the heat of life. In this period of non-control and if you're young and ain't thinking no more fire ask yourself if a middle eastern beach is more your pyre. 'Nuff said. Be jolly. Run a mile for me (you old guys make it two!). Then send me a message. It's a good time to camp in your favorite tree - (even if it's raining.)

Mellie - you are such a dear. Regarding Dollboy aka the Jumper-ho - Nope, the doll is not real, too clean, too plastic, and when you drop it real hard the same dumb smile sticks to its face. Funny thing though, that the producer put a big USFS emblem on the box and touche I hear a square shuffle entering the wind! Alas, - There was a guy who wanted to do it right and we told him make them real - make them female - cause any dirt firefighter will take a firebabe anyday. Besides, anyone who has ever played with a smokejumper knows that long hair, burly beards, and big snuggily arms - are what they really have to offer. When Talking Barbie says "toga party!" bring that action super-hero! Wish I had one I'd make sure it got hung up in a moon tree!

Seriously now -- Anyone out there really believe the 2002 fire season was the record setter? I thought that was 2000? 1996? 1994? Yelled&stoned '88, Silverdated '87? Question: is an acre affected by fire really an acre destroyed? Think that one over if you're looking to lay down a homestead? Me - I'm gonna go look this spring for some over-cut, burned over blackline acres that have been destroyed to call my own; I can only imagine what the cost of one destroyed acre goes for these days, but I'll take 40 if the price is right! I'll cut up my escrow money like a puzzle and pay in the mosaic fits. Anyone out there know the going rate and appraised cost of an acre destoyed? If the price were right I'd choose a blackened clear-cut; doesn't everyone need a piece of fragmentation to humble occasionally about what really is out there. Dear friends of mine on the Oregon coast tell me the predominate color of ground is red but it fades fast in a flurry of repollination. Red. It's a color I hear from Rudolf's reindeer nose. And thinking of something read - what's with the sudden oak blight? Now there's a challenge on extended attack - a south facing old growth tan-oak stand with Redwood on the north and a biting wind of east. Beautiful sunsets over the ocean. Man I just love northern California! (Can we sign those wilderness fire plans now please!)

Well, I woke up the other day and couldn't remember if we were heading into 2004 or 2003! I had to really stop and think about that one. Whew. This getting older stuff is a ...... Okay, here's my point for writing. Have you seen the long green line of folks walking out the door? The tide is swiftly ebbing taking some of our best in the backwash. What are we going to do when we need to water down the poopdeck? Breach on the Beach? Paradigms? For twenty cents Pandora's box has already opened. News at five. Shift change at four. Are those people really leaving or are they just tired pogues with their heads slung down walking backwards? The role is on and it's really getting hard to watch the march of greenling into retirement. "The long green line." Some come back (long green slime) and then at year's end have to be told to go home - realizing that they have no place to go - almost a shame but true.

(I DO believe I'm gonna buy some destroyed acres? Then I can finally plan the best years of my life. People who look at the forest and can only see green trees and birds singing are like those that don't understand that because I can walk I am not hurting? HA! I remember the only time I ever stood on an unemployment line, an old jumper bud ran into me at the state office and said "gees, what a line!" When I said yeah, "haven't stood in a long line in a long time" he said that was something dragonslayer would say. And then many moons followed. Oh for the rush of sheer enjoyment from standing in a line....with both feet evenly.

Well I got lots to say but most of ya are probably too busy to read this sap and I have got to remind myself to keep it light so the spirits in the rear of the load keep smiling. But I really want to say - for those that come back - please come back healthy, come back clean, come back smarter, but don't come back mean. Come back wiser - and come back a little less green. We need you and maybe together we can resuscitate a destroyed acre or two million. Soon enough we will engage a teetering time inside the curl of a "tactical wave" hidden between the swells fire fighting and the wide, open hollers of fire management. Standing on the back deck, crossing the bar, watching PM10 shoot-up the sunrise like a black tar fire junkies basking in the paradise after another good day of line. The Gods ain't made but angry still, curling water spouts just like fire whorls, a thousand eyes watching the "sport" unfurl. Let's not this season let it angry be, just step away and reassess. Always ask: "Why am I here?" When you don't know - it's time to be gone.

The Dragon chooses carefully. So do we. Merry Christmas, Kwansa, Hannukah, Praise Allah. Shalom. Feliz Navidad.

The spirits are getting pithy, please hear our echos, we hear your shout in the wind and it is good, fly on!

ghostload.

Here are some more photos. I took these during the Hunter Fire, Mariposa County Aug-Sept 2000. No joke... it had drizzled on the way to this line assignment, cloud cover to the point the airtankers were grounded, copters were up though, RH 50%. We, the firefighters from ST, were about 2500-3000ft into a 5000ft hose lay. When we started, this column was very small, we didn't even think twice about it. Picture 4 is prior to the fire jumping the dozer line, Picture 5 is the fire after it crossed the line.

Brad

I put them on the Fire 15 photo page. Happy holidays to you, too. Ab.

Let me take a moment and thank everyone I can think of for the support you've given me! I know your thoughts and prayers contribute to my well being and healing. When I came out of surgery that midnight, I "awoke" to a vision of a circle of yellow-clad firefighters laying on hands in the midst of much light. It was comforting and welcoming. You just can't imagine how welcoming. Many of you I don't know in person, but your collective presence filled the room. Then I realized you were all in clean nomex and I wondered if I was in heaven! One of the recovery nurses who looked like a hotshot (but probably was just a buff SF gay guy) laid a hot flannel sheet over me and wrapped a folded section around my head, commenting that I looked like a nun. I told him, not so, never a nun, although sometimes I employed a <little madonna smile>. Rather I told him that the wrapped part was my firefighter's helmet, visor and shroud and that I would never "abandon the line". He thought that funny, but was kind in his laughter. He wanted to know what I did with my life and I had fun verbally sparring with him (not printable) and the others over the next 2 hours.

Thank you all so much for the thoughts.

backburnfs and firewolf thanks for the healing circles. Thank those who participated, please. I feel blessed. <smooch>

Hickman, thanks for the Firefighter Angels pin. I love it. You're a good friend. (I hope your tornadoes and snow have not been too taxing... Jeez, living in the armpit of the USA, and coming west each summer, what a life!)

An R5er, Fire'n'Water, Hornie, SoCal Capt, Ray, Pulaski, AL, John, Tahoe Terrie, Firehorse, WP, NorCal Tom, JW, ECC1, Curious, Renee and Vicki thanks for the good wishes, the words of encouragement, e-mails, phone calls. Oh my, I'm probably forgetting someone. If so, please forgive me. I tried to e-mail some of you with fs.fed addys from the hospital, but the system sent them back. Probably thought my messages were spam since I was using a remote server. What a day and age to have access to theysaid from a hospital room! (They banned my laptop but I snuck it in! Even now, the docs have limited my typing time. What's with that?? So I lurk...)

Terrie, the wildland firefighter doll is marvelous! Thank you! Do they all look a little cock-eyed, or just mine??? I like how the web gear/pack is dirty nomex and the shirt is clean. Fusee in the pack, a whistle! Amazing detail and larger than I thought it would be. My family got me the smokejumper, too for Christmas. Ghost Load, you'll need to tell us how authentic that one is. Face doesn't seem young enough or "academic" enough to me and he looks a little heavy to be a jumper.

Fire'n'Water, Hornie the flowers were lovely, lillies and hyacinths, beautiful. They smelled so much I immediately threw up in the trashcan. I don't mind a good hurl every once in a while. Sure had the nurses jumping! They took them away for 2 days. When I was finally up later and was doing my kicks around the hall I tracked them down by smell -- in the solarium overlooking SF. I really appreciated them there and so did everyone else. Brought them home with me too. I'm down to the last two lily buds with their whiff of aroma. Thanks! <hug> Fire'n'Water thanks for the call, too.

Many thanks to the two people (unknown) who called to ask if flowers were allowed before sending them. Of course the nurses said no after my first experience! <chortle>

Finally, I want to send a load of LOVE to Original and the other Abs. I love you m'dears! Can't imagine my life without you and this whole theysaid crew, lurkers and all.

May your Christmas be as blessed as mine.
Mellie

PS Nomad, I will mail the videotape in a few days when the mail settles down.

PSS For those of you who are looking for the donation to make before the New Year hits us, please consider the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. You can even donate by credit card and it's tax deductable. Foundation funds are low and a new season - with all its risk to life - will be upon us all too soon. Supporting our own is the right thing to do.

Welcome back Mellie. Rest up. Ab.

CDF MEMORANDUM
December 1st
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on December 23rd at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue. There will be lots of spiked eggnog and a small band playing traditional carols...feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if our Chief Deputy Director shows up dressed as Santa Claus to light the Christmas tree! Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time; however, no gift should be over $10. Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Patty <snip>
Human Resources Director

December 2nd
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Hanukkah is an important holiday that often coincides with Christmas (though unfortunately not this year). However, from now on we're calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy applies to employees who are celebrating Kwanzaa at this time. (CDF Mike from AG, you and your atheist buddies should party too.) There will be no Christmas tree and no Christmas carols sung. Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Patty <snip>
Human Resources Director

December 3rd
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
Regarding the anonymous note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table, I'm happy to accommodate this request but, don't forget, if I put a sign on the table that reads, "AA Only," you won't be anonymous anymore. In addition, forget about the gifts exchange -- no gifts will be allowed since the union members feel that $10 is too much money.
Patty <snip>
Human Researchers Director

December 7th
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
I've arranged for members of Overeaters Anonymous to sit farthest from the dessert buffet and pregnant women closest to the restrooms. Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with the gay men; each will have their table. Yes, there will be a flower arrangement for the gay men's table. Happy now?
Patty <snip>
Human Racehorses Director

December 9th
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
People, people -- nothing sinister was intended by wanting our Chief Deputy Director to play Santa Claus! Even if the anagram of "Santa" does happen to be "Satan," there is no evil connotation to our own "little man in a red suit."
Patty <snip>
Human Rat Races

December 10th
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
Vegetarians-I've had it with you people!! We're going to hold this party at Luigi's Open Pit whether you like it or not, you can just sit at the table farthest from the "grill of death," as you put it, and you'll get salad bar only, including hydroponic tomatoes. But, you know, tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them right now... Ha! I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and die, you hear me?
The Bitch from Hell

December 14th
TO: ALL EMPLOYEES
I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty <snip> a speedy recovery from her stress-related illness. I'll continue to forward your cards to her at the sanitarium. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay. Happy Holidays!
Terri <snip>
Acting Human Resources Director

HAW HAW. Ab.

NorCal Tom

Dear All,

Well this is a much better change from what happened last year in Sydney.
Weather has been cool with scattered showers since Sat. It seem that even West
Australia and Victoria might be getting a Christmas break with an easing of the weather.

To all that have helped by replying with advice to my questions and for all of those
who have unknowingly provided me with insight and knowledge in wildland interface
firefighting issues (I lurked a lot for the first 4 months), I would like to say
a VERY BIG thank you

I hope you all have a very Happy and Joyous Christmas and a great New Years
Eve. Please take care on the roads, watch out for the drunks and wildlife and for those in
snow country watch out for the black ice (I spent some of my early years in Montreal,
Quebec, Canada).

I have just finished our Christmas Dinner (Cold smoked ham and turkey and host
roast pork with crackling YUM YUM YUM. Pudding and custard later on).

Catch you all in the New Year.

To all of the AB’s.
Great Job and thanks for the help and advice. Keep up the great work.

For the Aussies that are reading this,
Thanks for all of the effort for so early on this season and as it has progressed into
the true fire season, please watch out on the fire line.

Best Wishes to All,
Aussie CFU

I helped deliver water to several shelters this week and they all averaged 30 families or more living there. Other folks were able to move in with family members that still had homes or roofs. Got to back to work now but Happy Holidays to all back on the mainland. Our 30 days will be up Jan 9.

The NUKE

Merry Christmas. Ab.

The big problem I have is this: The top of the map reads: "Approximate
location of resources as firing operation nears completion." This is
wrong as it relates to the location of B3512, he left that location
early on and went passed us (4465) to the crossroads intersection south
of the powerlines. It implies that 3512 was in that location during the
burnover, which he was not. I don't want anyone thinking that he was
that close to the burnover, and didn't do anything to help. Please don't
look too much into the small factual errors. A better title of the map
would have been "Approximate location of resources both immediately
before the burnover and immediately after the burnover."

B

Duke

It appears that in response to a DOE request the USFS did provide the requested crews as part of the "clean up" process in Bayo Canyon. Two 13 man crews supplied by the Santa Fe office of the USFS spent 3 weeks collecting debris in the area. Though the debris "was considered radioactively contaminated" the only protective gear supplied to the crews were film badges and gloves. The "tremendous amount" of contaminated debris was placed in burlap bags by the crews who walked "elbow to elbow" in the "heavily contaminated area". According to this memo the crews collected about " 90 truckloads" of debris from the Bayo Canyon test site (TA 10). Previously Indian Forest Fire Fighting crews had provided the service of searching for unexploded ordnance on military firing ranges. I wonder why the DoD did not want to use military personnel for this.

A LANL press release on the effort (falsely) indicated that no explosives were found on what was described as an "explosive impact area" and that only "one truckload" of scrap metal and harmless practice shells" were collected.

I found this info on the DOD/DOE site dealing with documents relating to "Human radiation experiments". The crews were from the Zia and Jemez Pueblos. I have a list of most of their names.

If these folks were exposed to radioactivity in 1963 and were unaware of it they should be contacted. I do not know how to do so but hope that you may. Given the tendency of LANL to withhold and cover-up information which could expose LANL to liability (which continues to the present) I suspect that they were not completely truthful with the crews that were employed in the TA 10 clean up effort.

To find the documents go to http://hrex.dis.anl.gov/ and type Bayo Canyon Cleanup in the search box. Although these are public documents use of the site is recorded and monitored.

Can anyone help me contact these firefighters? Upon request I can supply their names.

Dana
danalinscott@yahoo.com

The USFS is hiring, go to USA Jobs.com

JB

Sometimes my spam filter puts things in a junk folder that I later delete. If you did e-mail, it may have ended up there. I think I did pull your last message out of the junk mail... as I recall... Ab.

Merry Christmas to all you Aussies. Be Safe. Ab.

We have gotten no other e-mails from you. Are you a federal employee? Ab.

Here are some pics of various fires throughout the 2001/2002 fire seasons. My name is KC from the Prairie Band of Potawatomi Nation Type 6 Engine Crew in Kansas.

Thanks, great site.
KC

Some nice photos, KC. I put them on the Fire 15, Heli 8, Handcrew 7, and Engines 5 photo pages. While on those pages, look for the other really fine photo contributions from BWC and from "Just Another Driver". Check also AirTankers 6 for a great T-22 drop photo from BWC. Some terrific photos for sure. Christmas is coming. [Little Santa jig] Ab.

These are a couple of pics from the McNally Fire on the Sequoia. One is of the plume coming towards our structure group that we were protecting and successfully did so. The second was of our engine drafting from the Boy Scout camp pond when look who showed up to join us... quite windy for sure.

Have a good one,
Just a Driver

Nice photos, Just a Driver. Check my note on the post above for the links to the correct pages. Ab.

[Image] White House Shield
The White House
Washington DC
December 2002

To the Employees of the Federal Government

I send greetings to all Federal Employees and your families as you celebrate this holiday season.

The men and women who dedicate themselves to Federal Service help strengthen our Nation. Federal Employees carry out countless essential responsibilities that include maintaining critical government services, ensuring economic growth, and supporting efforts to extend peace and freedom around the world.

Laura joins me in thanking you and wishing you health and happiness in the year ahead. May God bless you and your families, and may God continue to bless America.

/s/ George Bush

Fire managers with too much OT getting billed by feds
www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1217Firepay18-ON.html

Thanks. Good one. Ab.

Single Engine Air Tankers, known here as 'fixed wing bombers' have been an integral part of Australian firefighting for a number of years now. We have never had successful use of multi engine bombers, but the likes of Air Tractors and Dromaders have been very successful when used in conjunction will our light and medium helicopters with buckets and bellytanks, and of course more recently the 3 Erickson AirCranes, "Elvis", "Georgia Peach" and "Incredible Hulk" who have excelled in doing the heavy stuff. Thinking back over the last 10 years or so I cannot recall any loss of life of pilots or aircrew or major accidents involving firefighting aircraft in Australia. I suspect that should the era of multi-engine airtankers come to a close in the US, in a few years time SEAT's and rotary wing aircraft will have more than competently filled the gap.

Regards - Peter T.

Thanks for your observations, Peter. However, our needs in the US differ somewhat from yours in Australia.

Readers, please read the beginning or all of John Watt's letter to the Blue Ribbon Panel regarding use of air resources on fires. There are reasons why we need all resources available and he spells them out quite well. Ab.

Remember use the "tools" you have on hand then order things you need, that is the dispatchers job to get the fire folks what they need and want.

Aircraft Dispatcher.

Great web site AB,
Nepper

RC

Paul, you may have more success asking the NIFC folks (phone-208-387-5457). Here's a link to the photo you referred to which is on the NIFC National Fire News page.

Every once in a while I stumble onto a software program that makes me sit up and take note. In this case, it was "why didn't I look for this before?". As I was sitting and talking with the Reno Nevada NOAA meteorologists last week preparing for our soon to become reality change in how we receive our fire weather forecasts, they mentioned that they provided updates through the day for any changes in their forecasts. Especially significant wind/thunderstorm events. They asked how I would like to receive the announcements. I mentioned email, but they said that there were those who already said they didn't want it because they didn't want any more out-dated email clogging their boxes during times they were absent.

They said it sounded like the dispatch centers they had already talked to preferred to have a fax sent. Well, I don't like faxes, I think they are way outdated and a waste of paper and ink. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy cutting down trees just to watch them fall. But when I get busy doing my little initial attack dispatching or MIRPS thing, I don't have time to, can't hear, nor do I have the luxury of getting up and checking the fax machine. I didn't mention the possibility of using the DMS system, wherein any dispatcher could be alerted and retrieve the updates, but I told them I had seen somewhere of a software program that can monitor websites for page updates.

You non-dispatchers stay with me here, I'm getting to the good part. So I went looking for the kind of program I had seen somewhere prior. Here's what I found after researching and trying quite a few different programs: WebMon

It's easy to configure, very small footprint (memory), and best of all, it's free! You tell it which specific web pages you want to watch for changes, which specific parts of the web pages you want to monitor, then it sits in your System Tray and lets you know by visual and/or audio alerts whenever it happens. You can have it check from every minute up to hourly time periods. It will watch different pages and allow different time settings.

Why am I telling you all this? Don't you want to know when They Said has been updated? We're using it in our shop now to let us know when the Redding Fire Weather Forecast is posted. It works like a charm. No more guessing and wasting our time.

The home website for the program has lots of info and examples on how to set it up. Here tis again:
http://www.markwell.btinternet.co.uk/webmon/index.html

If you still need help, ask Ab to forward a message to me and I'll try to help ya set it up.

ECC1

Thanks ECC1, I downloaded it and tried it for a couple days before posting your message. It seems to work as well as you said, and as they state on their website, there are no advertisements and it doesn't appear to have any "spyware" attached! I also like the ability to click on the "alert box" and have the monitored page open up automatically. Ab.