Conair, a company based in Abbottsford B.C. Canada, has numerous Fire Cats on contract to the Canadian Government. They bought up excess US Navy S-2 Trackers and modified them as retardant ships. The modifications were so great that (or I am told) they are no longer considered the same ship as the Tracker. Last time I was at the airport they still had about 50 plus Trackers in a storage yard on the east side of the runway, near the retardant base, still in Navy gray and with wings folded up, just like they were parked on a Carrier.

When we order mud and the Fire Cats are sent, they come in groups of three, they do not hold as much as a DC 6-7-8 or P-3, but three ship have an equivalent amount of retardant as one of the big ships. The ship are amazing, they have so much power they can put mud in places where the big ship will not dare to go.

Hope this helps.
WP

If a person is open and honest in taking the health screening, it eliminates 90%+ of the risk. And staying/getting in shape for the test should eliminate most other risks. Yeah, there are folks that have a genetic inclination to a heart attack or other serious health risk, and (a) don't know it; and (b) wouldn't show up in most physical exams.

On the other hand, I hope that we can all support the concept of testing folks before we send us/them out on a wildfire assignment. And personally, if I'm gonna throw a heart attack, I'd rather it be in the controlled environment of a Pack Test site than on some of the God-awful places on the side of a mountain in the dark of night where I occasionally end up during a normal fire season.

So, what are the reasonable, practical, economic, and efficient alternatives to insuring that we have a fit firefighting force in the wildland.....?

Mollysboy

MB

Put it on the Miscellaneous 2 photo page. Ab.

Dear sir,
I am looking for informations about the gumman CS2F firecat and links with potential sellers

If you can help me I will realy appreciate

In the expectation of your reply,
best regards
Gabriel Kaeppelin

Ab would be happy to forward a message.

Idaho Department of Lands Type 6.
AS

Put it on Engines 5 photo page. Ab.

Put it on the Logo 8 page. Nice one. Ab.

But having the 10 "memorized" doesn't mean you understand and can use them. Ab.

haw haw. Ab.

I would ask the Head Park Ranger to give you a letter that says "Wildland Firefigter" or 025 series are in fact "Inherently governmental". Federal DOD Firefighters have tried to seek legislative action to include their positions. Military Base's across the nation downsized and gave their firefighters the boot. BRAC did a great job of pushing "outsourcing/contracting" to local Fire Departments. Some Feds ended up with jobs by their State legislators passing IAFF legislation to allow Federal Firefighters to fill jobs before the job was filled by recruitment. FWFSA has been looking for a Dept of Interior or Agriculture Fire position that is "Inherently governmental", NO SUCH beast exists! Contracting out is the Republican way, Forest Service employee's are the "low hanging fruits" that need to be picked? Interesting stuff if you're a Republican. OF COURSE........ "THEY SAID" is not a place you want to go into political party stuff? If you know of a position in the Park Service, (FIRE) that is inherent by position, please share. Only the Law Enforcement group is covered.

Niedermeyer

Any suggestions?
Thanks - Firetool

FWFSA rep's (or myself) will be on chat tonight Thursday after 7 pm
(Pacific) to answer questions and to garner support for Wildland Fire
Service Issues.

FWFSA_SoCal

r.e. Craig Goddel's " Better way, Fire orders"
We have already gone back to the Original 10 Standards. This is how we learned it when I started, I never bothered to "re-learn" the FIRE ORDERS version. The new way just didn't make sense. Funny how the pendulum swings. Attached is a copy of the poster that we have in our training room. Feel free to use it.

sting

Leo Jarzomb
San Gabriel Valley Newspaper Group
1210 Azusa Canyon Rd.
West Covina CA 91790
leo.jarzomb@sgvn.com
800-788-7578 ext 2121

He took it on Sept 4, '02 on the Curve Fire.

One who was there

Abs,

caught part of an interview on morning tv with a Hotshot by the name of
Beebee (?). They seem to have been sent to Victoria to help with the high
country fires there. With the forecast weather I'm sure they're going to be
in the very deep end first day.

For those that are thinking of coming, I suggest you have a read of the
report by one of the blokes that went with the first deployment from Oz to
US so you can get a look in to what differences there are. Download from
http://nrfa.fire.org.nz/publications/misc/ANZ_USA/.

cheers
OB

Need to ask Leo for permission to use his close-up of federal air tanker that's posted on airtanker 6 on wildlandfire.com.

We are a newly-formed non-profit group that's working to save the CDF Ukiah Air Attack base. Please contact me at sweeney@pacific.net or pager (707) 468 2223.

Mike Sweeney

Safety Gram, 2002

GW

Thanks. Ab.

Glad you like it. Nice work on the part of one of the Abs to get the new version of RALF up and running. Working on this site takes lots of time and it's nice to have help. Check out the new Smiley faces and experience the new RALF chat. www.wildlandfire.com/smiley_info.htm. Original Ab deserves a round of applause. clap clap Clap CLAP CLAP. Thanks Original! You're the BEST.

Not the Original.

Oh yeah the jobs page and Series 462 and 455 are updated.

Ab.

There's a picture of ordinance on the fireground on http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/misc/misc.htm. It's Stu's and it's called hazard. Some FF were talking about the dangers of firefighting near a "hot area" the other night on chat. Maybe one of them has a photo or two.

Todd

Todd and MG, someone wrot in that you really mean ordnance not ordinance. Har. Let's see if I get "corrected". Ab.

Childs gives "government" and G-dub a bad name. Well maybe having them spell it out is better than if they glossed over it. At least we know their true thinking. Doesn't bode well.

(Ab, this is a tame commentary, You should see the one I wrote the first time around.)

Tahoe Terrie

National Park Service, Office of the Director
To All Employees

Since April 2002, when plans were announced to begin cost-comparison studies associated with the Administration's competitive sourcing initiative, I have made it a priority to keep National Park Service employees informed about our agency's competitive sourcing plans.

National Park Service employees are very passionate about their jobs, and have a well-deserved reputation for providing outstanding public service. As director of this agency, I am confident the jobs being studied will continue to be performed by our employees. At every opportunity, I commend your outstanding work to Interior and White House officials.

Imagine my distress at reading an article with the headline "70% of Jobs in Park Service Marked Ripe for Privatizing" in the January 26 edition of the L.A. Times, which also appeared in many other newspapers across the country.

The article said that Interior Secretary Gale Norton has earmarked 11,807 full-time positions for privatization. That statement is not true. That number, which is now 11,524, comes from the FAIR (Federal Activities Inventory Reform) Act Inventory of 2002. The FAIR Act requires each agency to identify a list of commercial functions it performs that are not inherently governmental. The agency does not have to compete every function, however, and with the Secretary's approval, the National Park Service has identified 1,700 positions to be studied through FY 2003 and FY 2004. A figure of 70% has never been used as a measuring stick for privatizing National Park Service jobs or will it be. Nor will our ranger ranks, those in the 025 series, as implied in the article, be among the positions studied for competitive sourcing.

A letter to the editor is now being prepared to bring attention to the misleading information and factual errors in the article, and should be sent to the L.A. Times within the next couple of days.

Again, let me emphasize how much your dedication and outstanding public service is appreciated not only by me but also Secretary Norton and President Bush. I promise to keep you informed of any new developments in the competitive sourcing process, and urge you to check InsideNPS, our intranet website, under competitive sourcing for updates.

Fran Mainella
Director, National Park Service

I have my passport. Ab.

This paper was forwarded to us by TC and DF and posted with the permission of Craig Goddell, the author. Some good suggesting for maintaining situational awareness in a changing fire environment and good points regarding potential conflict between some of the fire orders and the "Situations That Shout Watch Out".

Craig's paper is presented as a 188K pdf file. There's a "dynamic model" of thinking through the fire orders on page 3. You all know how we rag on pdf format, not this time. If you need Adobe Acrobat Reader to access the pdf, you can get Acrobat Reader here. It's free.

Click here to download Craig's "Better Way" Fire Orders (pdf). We're also posting links to it on the Documents Worth Reading page and on the Site Map page, where you can also access Karl Brauneis' Original Intent Ten Standard Fire Orders. It's interesting to see how Craig built on those.

Happy reading.
Ab.

PS. K just sent in a photo (gif) of the page 3 model.

FW: RACE AGAINST TIME FOR THOUSANDS OF FIREFIGHTERS Volunteer firefighters from the NSW Rural Fire Service will be racing against time to build and consolidate containment lines around bushfires across the State before the onset of expected bad bushfire weather conditions on Wednesday and Thursday.

While we have taken the opportunity to stand down some of our firefighters for much needed rest, the more than one thousand firefighters who remain in the field, particularly in southern NSW, are racing to rebuild containment lines around bushfires, said NSW Rural Fire Service Assistant Commissioner Operations Shane Fitzsimmons.

While the weekend displayed how effectively our containment plans worked and the readiness and capability of our firefighters against tough fire weather conditions, we nevertheless witnessed the bushfires in the southern part of NSW break through many of our containment lines.

With close to half a million hectares (1,235,525 acres) having been burnt out in the area between the Yass district and through the Snowy Mountains to the Victorian border, our work is still cut out for us to contain these fires. The weather on Wednesday and Thursday is expected to be very hot, dry and windy and this will again see these fires flare up.

Our crews will be using the next 24 hours to backburn and we will also be deploying around 50 heavy bulldozers and graders to help cut new containment lines.

We must recognise the ongoing efforts of our volunteers. Today marks the 124th day of continuous declarations of "bushfire emergencies" under s44 of the Rural Fires Act. This has been our most protracted bush firefighting season on record and highlights the effect that the drought is having on fire behaviour. We should also applaud those employers who have continued to allow our volunteers leave from their jobs, as well as those self-employed volunteers who have put their businesses on hold to go off and fight fires across the State, said Asst. Commissioner Fitzsimmons.

We're keeping you all in mind. Remember that no property, forest or home is worth a life. Be Safe. Ab.

I just finished reading all the scuttle about pack tests, IHCs and the American Firefighting Crew on its way to Australia. The crew to Australia is not a rumor. My IHC Superintendent and the Assistant Superintendent from the Zuni IHC are amongst those fortunate enough to make this trip. There are also Smokejumpers in the mix and a few folks from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service fire management program as well. (Yes, fins and feathers has a well trained and highly qualified fire management program.) They will be broken up into four groups of five personnel and manning engines. I don't know about the other folks but the assistant superintendent from Zuni is also a former and still current Engine Boss or Captain of Foreman depending who or which agency you may work under. The superintendent is an ICT3. Who knows why the powers that be decided to send the people that were chosen instead of currently active engine crews. Personally I felt they should have sent hotshot crews and engine crews. The folks from "down under" came to our aide last summer and I would like to send them more than the people we are sending.

In any case, we are sending a good mix of professional wildland firefighters. Who knows, maybe this will serve to open the door for more of us to go help out. In case anyone is interested, the Zuni IHC Superintendent's name is Carl Crawford of the Blackfeet Nation and the Assistant Superintendent's name is Troy Cachini of the Zuni Tribe. Our prayers and hopes for a safe return goes with every member of the American Firefighting Crew and are extended to our friends from "down under" that they all weather out the fire storms safely.

I wanted to mention that the Southwest is in as bad if not worse shape right now as we were this time last year. The snow pack is non-existent and we are having mid to late spring like weather. I fear that the Rodeo-Chediski fire was just a warm-up for things to come. We are already experiencing moderate fire danger on the Zuni Reservation and the indices are moving up rapidly. The fire season is shaping up to be another long, tiring and dangerous one. Everyone be safe and remember, they haven't grown one tree that is worth singing the hair on our wildland firefighters.

Cheers,
They lite-em, We fight-em (alias, Zuni FMO)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comments on federal employees and the Competitive Sourcing Initiative

Excerpts from David C. Childs, Commercial Activities & Privatization Manager, Office of Management & Budget speeches, Jan. 17, 2002; Nov., 2002, Washington, DC, Reno, NV

• There is not a government employee performing at the industry standard rates.
• 850,000 government employees are doing work that could or should be done by the private sector.
• Expected only about 105,000 of these government jobs to be lost.
• We don't care who does the work.
• It is not going to be easy to retain in-house government services.
• We don't want to penalize federal employees for past inefficiencies.
• Federal employees will sell their souls.
• Forest Service employees are "LOW HANGING FRUIT" that need to be removed.
• If a Forest Service employee is working a couple months on fire, that means that his other Forest Service job is not needed.
• This is a reaction to chronic poor performance of government and continuing disclosure of intolerable waste.
• If there is a contractor somewhere, anywhere doing the work, it is not inherently governmental.
• This renewed emphasis [on Competitive Sourcing] is really nothing new.
• Due to the intensive downsizing of the previous administration, the workforce is aging and 50% of government employees will retire in 4-10 years. We have to do this competitive sourcing NOW or we may not be able to accomplish our goals due to the shrinking workforce.
• Determining what jobs are inherently governmental is not inherently governmental.
• Determining the Most Efficient Organization (MEO) is not inherently governmental.
• If federal agencies don't fully implement the administrations goals, we [OMB] will cut their budget accordingly. The Corp of Engineers is an example in how they didn't buy into the outsourcing last year so we [OMB] slashed their budget. [He neglected to say that Congress later restored all of their funding.]
• This is not about the reduction of federal jobs or budget cuts, nor about "privatization", but rather about finding the right kind of jobs.
• If government jobs were contracted out, that would not necessarily mean that government workers would lose their jobs.
• Competition is the best way to reduce government costs and improve accountability.

Try the old chat room - hit the chat button in the header. I can't get the link to the new one to work. Ab.

• The first picture was on the way into Oregon, but you can probably figure that out by looking at it. We took the scenic route from Medford, OR, to CA, and back to Gold Beach, OR.
• The second is our crew w/ STLs crossing the Chetco River near Wilderness Retreat.
• The third is of us putting up sprinklers on the Chetco River Inn. A beautiful place with great hosts, good snacks, and a Scottish terrier named Maggie!
• These next 3 photos give an idea of the topography (bloody steep in some places!) and fuels.
• Here's one that shows the smoke from the fire over the Pacific Ocean.
• A nice job with the Christmas lights above the Brookings camp!

GreatWhiteNorth

Thanks GreatWhiteNorth for being patient while we got these up. We have some more photos on a bit of a backlog but we are working on them. We put these up on the Biscuit Fire page at the bottom. Ab.

doc brown

5 saws for historical value, 3 saws for an easy read, avg it to 4 saws if you like.

Cap'n Kirk

Nice review, Cap'n. We put it up on the Book Reviews page. Ab.

The Meat

I believe the case you are referring to involved the British Columbia Forest Service. Fitness tests vary from province to province across the country. As I heard it, the 'old' test that she first passed _was_ the pack test. The test that the BCFS had switched to was the shuttle run or beep test. It was the new beep test that she was not able to pass. I'm not sure what the level for a 'pass' was, but for Alberta Type I-Helitack Support and Type I-Rapattack crews, you need a minimum of level 10. Ontario's minimum is level 6. So I've been led to believe that the BCFS has scrapped the beep test and gone back to the pack test.

In case some are not familiar with the beep test, here's a description of Alberta's fitness requirements (3 parts):

1 metre = 3.3 feet

Physical Fitness

Applicants selected must successfully complete a physical fitness test consisting of three phases. Applicants will be interviewed after the physical fitness test and if selected, will be sent to the training course and may be accepted to the program. Members of the HS are tested throughout the season and must be able to meet the following minimum physical fitness standards at all times. Failure to do so will result in the member being released from the program. A 20-minute rest is allowed between phases.

Shuttle Run: the runner completes a minimum of 90, 20-metre runs back and forth, or 1800 metres (1.1 miles) at pre-determined beeps starting at 8.2 seconds per 20 metres and progressing faster throughout the 1800 metres.

Upright Row: in a standing position, back against the wall, knees slightly bent, and hands placed shoulder width apart on the bar, lift a 23-kg (51 lb.) barbell to chest height. The metronome will be set at 40 beats per minute or 20 lifts per minute. The standard is 18 repetitions per minute.

Pump/Hose/Carry/Drag: which must be completed in under four minutes and ten seconds. The timer starts when the pump is placed on the ground. For safety purposes, this phase of the test must be performed wearing a hard hat, coveralls, and work boots.

Start by carrying 30-kg (65-lb) Mark III pump 100 metres without stopping - 50 metres out and back. Next pick up four 30-metre (100 ft) lengths of 1.5-inch hose, (31 kg/68 lbs.), putting it over the shoulders and carrying it a distance of 300 metres - 75 metres out and back twice. Upon completion of the above, pick up a charged length of 1.5-inch hose and drag it 50 metres out and back twice for a total of 200 metres. Hose lengths must be pulled over the shoulder with one hand and grasped behind the back with the opposite hand to pass this test.

cheers,
GreatWhiteNorth

Jr. here, I worked on Vandenberg's crew for several years, they do become unavailable during missile launches and other important military missions. All members of the crew are civilian, with an occasional airmen to supplement their numbers. They are under the 0081 series and are paid portal to portal when they leave for a fire. They have a mutual aid agreement with SBCO and Los Padres NF. for initial attack responses. You will only see them in South Zone though, the base commander would never let us leave for calls to other regions and North Zone. They have the same requirements as a IHC and have close ties with LP hotshots overhead. Let me know if you have any other questions I will be glad to answer them.

Jr. Vandenberg Fire

One of the Abs did a lot of research and created a new and updated chat. RALF chat did give some problems. We now have a new and updated version.

www.wildlandfire.com/cgi-bin/chat.cgi

We've been testing it out among ourselves and want to announce a community test of the new system after the Superbowl tonight, maybe about 2000 hours. If you can find someone to chat with before then, feel free to do so. You'll have to reenter your moniker and password. If you have any feedback for us on how it works or anything else, we'd appreciate hearing it.

It appears to this Ab that the system is much less jerky and has some other great new features. Of course it will be interesting to see how it "flows" with more people on it.

Be there or be square!

Ab.

-blackliner
Vandenberg has been around for a number of years, I'm not really sure how they fit into the larger picture, they do get made unavailable when Vandenberg starts firing rockets though and I believe they are restricted to the state of California, but as with my previous posting I don't know where the rumor begins and the truth ends. I've worked with them about 1/2 dozen times, and they seem to be a good crew, they've got a set of rather distinctive 4x4 navy blue buggys which makes them quite visible in camp or at the drop point if they are on your division.

Don't forget BIA either, I've worked with Geronimo and Fort Apache on numerous occasions and was quite pleased when I got them when I was IC, I found them to be the least whiny about their assignment of any IHC I've worked with. I don't know of any other BIA Hotshots though.

Pack test
I find it interesting that the Canadian Court thinks aerobic capacity can not be increased, I thought that was why we ran, I'm going to have to print out that finding and use it as proof that the chief needs to buy us donuts instead of sending us to the gym, the gym is just his little way of torturing us, I always knew I shouldn't trust health fanatics. I'll admit there are a handful of people who have been displaced by the pack test that can still perform their job but I have never found the pack test that difficult and am in pretty sorry shape for firefighting, My line pack ran around 35-40 lbs as do many, I don't see how the argument that carrying a pack roughly the same weight as gear carried in the job over flat ground discriminates, the ground on fires is rarely flat and the equipment does not carry its self, should we have to mark employees with weight restrictions so I don't accidentally hand a bladderbag to a crew person that only passed the 35lb pack test? The old test was a joke, I have never been able to do the 11 1/2 minute run but have out hiked those who can, and the step test was a bad joke, the best score I ever saw was a 40 year old fat smoker who was always the tail end charlie on PTs and fires.

Model 62
There are 3 types of 62, the 62A, which looks like the older model 61, it is a regular cab and the crew sits in the front of the build up, the model 62B came out in the late 1990's and is a crew cab with bat wing hose covers and a hose reel on each side. The 62C came out in 2001, it looks similar to the 62B but only has one hose reel in the rear behind a roll up door and lower hose covers. Some others you may run across are the Model 42, 51, 60, and 61 although these are being phased out, there are very few model 51 and 60's still in use by the USFS. These are all R5 engines, the other regions have their own models.

Not the best shots on some of these for recognition but it will have to do.

Note that the cabs vary depending on which batch they came from, you will find the same models built on Fords, Internationals, GMC etc, also may be 2 or 4 wheel drive.

Model 42 - recognition factors, much smaller than the others, 3 person crew. Hose reel mounted top center. PTO pump.
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng5/waters5.jpg

Model 51 - recognition factors, crew cab, build up sits on a flat bed, unlike the 60 which is built onto the vehicle chassis. Gasoline powered pump mounted in the rear, not PTO.
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng/fseng5.jpg

Model 60 - crew cab, build up part of the frame, 2 hose reels (one each side), looks very similar to the 62B but is older and does not have the aluminium batwing hose covers on top.
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng/fseng1.jpg

Model 61 - regular cab, crew sits in the front of the box like build up, two hose reels (1 each side mounted lower than the model 62A.Rear crew area is smaller than the 62A and has 1 1/2" intakes.
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng5/helitack.jpg

Model 62A - regular cab, looks very similar to the 6 but the hose reels are mounted higher, the crew area is larger and it has a 2 1/2" intake.
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng/guest3.jpg

Model 62B - crew cab, looks very much like the 60 but newer, large batwing aluminum hose covers, 2 hose reals, large square compartment doors instead of long rectangular doors. Rear compartment has a double door arrangement.
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng3/lpfeng.jpg

Model 62C - crew cab, looks similar to the 62B but only has one hose reel mounted in a roll up door at the rear, the aluminum hose covers are flat and lower, unlike the 62B's which rise up about 6-8".
http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng3/peppermintca01.jpg

Hope this helps.
Fedfire

I find it somewhat humorous that anyone would find the pack test to be an unfair assesment of physical ability for wildland firefighting. I, and many of my colleagues, do not feel that it adequately represents how truly arduous this job can be. On a crew, engine or ship, the only physical requirement for being a member is passing the pack test (yeah, thanks OPM- jerks). The daily fitness program for a Hotshot crew is usually much harder than the test required to be there. Consequently, many people who think this job is for them pass the pack test, but cannot meet the same fitness level of the crew. Red flag here- NO ONE wants a crew member who cannot pull their own weight. A bad situation gets much worse when someone can't keep up...

Ideally, IHCs would be able to adopt the same fitness requirements as the jumper program, but that ain't gonna' happen- OPM won't let it happen. This job isn't for everyone. Period. Fire isn't easy, and getting a job shouldn't be either.

-blackliner

i was wondering if you or any one out there in the fire world would have pics of some model 62 engines. i am curious on what they look like, what is on them and so forth. i am possibly gonna transition from a helitack crew to a engine crew and that is what they are running. so curious if some one could post something with that. thanks

also be safe it is a new year, and things can change in a hurry!!!
heads up you all and god bless ya...

FIREMAN T

another J.W.

Vandenberg Air Force Base near Santa Barbara, CA has a Hotshot Crew (Vandenberg Hotshots). I'm not sure if they are 0462 or 0081 I've heard rumors of both along with they are / are not paid portal to portal. Not sure what the truth is on those issues.

Also Kern County Fire Department has a Hot Shot crew (Rio Bravo Hot Shots I believe), they claim to be the only non federal hotshot crew and as far as I know they are. The overhead are full time Kern County firefighters and the bulk of the crew are temps paid at the same rate as the federal GS scale.

Fedfire

Backburnfs

Firescribe

I have already submitted a nomination for Paul Gleason for the Stihl award from several of us here locally in Carlsbad NM. After working through Stihl's nomination process, I must suggest similar action for those of us who feel strongly about Paul receiving this well-deserved award. We should do separate nominations from our separate and many quarters.

I will be attending my FMO conference next week and will be lobbying strongly for several more nominations. I urge all of you interested in honoring this wildland firefighting hero to do the same.

This is the most deserving guy ever to hump a hill, train a troop, and keep folks safe in our business. Let's make it happen!

NMAirBear

Undoubtedly different people/groups know different aspects of Paul's life. For the details of the award and the nomination process click the banner at the top of theysaid. Ab.

About a week and a half ago I was sitting around talking with people who had just seen The Lord of the Rings for the first time. One of them said aloud, "I wish you could do that in real life- Travel around and have adventures in crazy places with a group of people like that. You know, like a little family. It sucks that you can't actually do that." A big grin flashed across my face. Au contrair, I told them, this is doable, very doable. I went on to explain the whole fire business to them and how this happens every summer.

Ya see Chip, wildland fire fighting requires a lot of travel, typically. Especially if you are on a 20 person handcrew, or hotshot crew. You spend your summer crashing around the country, fighting fires wherever they pop up. You may wake up in some god forsaken part of the Nevada desert one day, then be on your way to Yellowstone the next. And this goes on for months. The only constant is the people. Now, when TheySaiders talk about feeling like they're in a family, they ain't kidding. Because for better or worse, you are stuck with the same group of people all season. You work long, draining shifts, you don't get enough sleep- you get excited together, you get bored together, you get pissed off together, and you get drunk together. So after a while, you have real sense of who these people are, of how they behave when the chips are down and when the chips are up. You develop an intuitive, gut sense of what motivates each individual. Whether you like 'em or not, you know 'em. Now, that is family, that is closeness.

And a consequence of that is a real sense of belonging to the group, of being part of something. But it's not just that you are part of something random- you gotta earn it. Real membership doesn't start until you've proven yourself, until you've gone out on a fire assignment and showed everybody what you're made of. I think that the feeling of exclusivity is a big part of why people like to hold their head so high in this profession. Not everyone can hack it on the fireline or on a hard PT. At some point, I think that deep down inside, everyone feels weak, feels like failure is just a footstep away. You feel maxed out and you don't know if you can keep going. But it's a silent struggle, one that you battle with in the solitude of your own mind, but you don't quit, you keep going. Why? Because no one else is stopping. The socializing force of not wanting to fall out is extremely powerful. And the beauty of it is that you do go farther, harder, and faster than you probably ever would on your own. At least that's how I feel.

So when you come back from a kickass fire assignment and you're dirty, smelly, tired, hungry, and sore- well, actually at that point you don't care, all you wanna do is eat and sleep, or maybe check up on the local population of females. But at some point later on, when it's over and you're rested and fed enough to think about such things, you feel alive inside. I think Mike 'n Terrie had it right about Adrenaline being that part that gets in your blood. You feel strong, you feel like you actually just did something that was challenging and worthwhile, and you had the fortune to share the experience with your little rag-tag, adventuring family. And on that day, you walk out of the bar holding your head up high, proud to be part of something so ballsy and genuine.

-The Nomad

Handcrew: www.wildlandfire.com/pics/hand5/shots.jpg
Engine Crew: www.wildlandfire.com/pics/eng3/orosco2.jpg

CFA = Country Fire Authority, Australia

I am a lady firefighter and I 've done it for 4 seasons going on my 5th . What motivates me about doing what I do is the adrenaline (sure) but, theres alot more to it then that, I get fulfillment out of knowing I helped save someones house, or someones life, and helping to preserve the forests for future generations to enjoy.

hope to see you out there this coming season and be safe out there.

-AK-

You hit on another very good reason, Family!! I do not care if you fight wild land fires or building fires. I do not care if you work for a Paid fire Department, or you are a volunteer, you are a part of my family. A good example of this was on Sept. 9/11. I was at work with family when I heard that the tower came down, I never thought about the policeman, or the civilians. My thought was oh my god, I just lost a lot of brothers, and sisters. There was no question in my mind that said they were outside. when the tower came down. My family (all of) would be in the middle of the danger.

Be safe always
Mike

Good history in the Classification issue.

FWFSA is seeking the assistance of our Congressional contacts regarding Classification. Congressman John Doolittle will be asked to "Direct OPM" to work on our classification issues. Basically, OPM is swamped with the Classification of all those Homeland Security Agency people. Unless a ranking member of Congress request OPM to give us time. We might just wait until the Agency, " Agriculture & Interior Heads" put together a National Fire Plan.

We know the issues of classification, retention and pay benefits will be included in this National Fire Plan. (Its called outsourcing - Contracting.)
FWFSA has been at the Classification talks, first on our legislation is the Portal to Portal, second is Hazard Pay calculated toward retirement. The 108th Congressional session does in fact present opportunity to resolve our classification issues. DOD Firefighters are just now getting their positions checked, not to be finished until 2004. Call me a Wildland Firefighter, Forestry Tech, Park Ranger or Range Tech. Pay me Portal to Portal alongside those City/Local/State getting the same. The agencies do not want to give up the work force as Firefighters. I think that OPM can come up with a classification. Accomplishment of Resource and Fire Management objectives in a Wildland fire series. The agencies will not change the system now.

Legislation or Congressional oversight is needed. Interesting "They Said" postings of the past, alot of people dont want to change their classification. They enjoy going to fires when they are needed. Yes.......... "They Said" is a great place to have discussions about the History of Wildland firefighters. Thanks for the posting.

Niedermeyer

Megan Smaker is a 22 year old seasonal firefighter with CDF (SCU).
She is one of the three people who are thought to be kidnapped in
Panama while on her 3 months off. Last year she spent her time off
working to find landmines in Afghanistan.

Here are some articles about the current situation.
SacBee Article: www.sacbee.com
CNN: www.cnn.com

Please keep her and the others in your prayers.

AL

www.plumasnews.com/
TC2

After my first summer of fighting fire to earn money for school, it got "in the blood" for me, too. I went back to school that fall, changed my major to natural resources and have continued on working with the Feds. There's something about working physically hard at something worthwhile, setting goals and attaining them even if the fire might cross the line later, feeling like you are "family" with your crew and others you work so hard with. Ab, I agree, there's nothing like feeling you're helping.

Yeah, adrenalin too, guess that's one way to put it, having to be alert and aware for hours and days on end and sometimes having to decide and act quickly because your life or your crews lives might depend on it. Walking the swordblade without falling off. There were times after that first summer when I thought I was addicted. Holy guacamole, it was a relief to find out that others felt the same way. Addicted together.

There was a Joseph Campbell quote I once heard that said something like every person is in search of the thing that makes them feel especially alive (or something like that). I wish I had written it down. If anyone knows it, please share.

What exactly motivates me? Hard to say, I can't imagine life without fire, really being alive without fire. More than a job, more than a career. More like a calling.

Tahoe Terrie

Chip, there was a thread on theysaid about a year and a half ago entitled "Just one more time". You could check the archives. Firefighters who were retiring wrote in with the things they would like to see or do or experience just one more time before they retired from fire. You see, often firefighters don't know exactly which fire season will be their last. Ab.

This year the National Fire Plan Award was given to Matt Reidy (USFS-Oregon), George Chesley (USFS), Doug Ledgerwood, and Jeff Pendleton (USFS-Oregon) last week in New Orleans at the National Fire Plan meeting.

Here's some info on the award.

Four offices in Oregon, led by these four fire management officers,
blazed a unique path to meet their most efficient level, or MEL, target
for suppression resources by focusing first on local communities. They
each hired local contractors as part of their MEL organization to fill
staff positions on staff engines.

By using contractors, these forests not only ensured adequate fire
staffing, they added jobs to the local economy.

These fire management officers worked closely with their zone
contracting officers to identify specifications for the contracts and
the opportunity to use indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity
contracts. One of the greatest benefits of the contracts was that they
actually increased the capability of the forests as they responded to
initial attack, and they blended contract resources into daily work
assignments alongside agency personnel.

K

Abs,

Here are some pics of fire approaching homes at Canberra.

A series of the Parliament House at 1000, 1400 and 1500. This
is the equivalent of your Congressional Building. It's located in Canberra.

Also have had some pics sent thru to me by some in my Communications
Group who had the forward comms van in the Snowy Mountains area.

Once again it's heating up this weekend with 39 deg C (102 F) for Sat,
& 42 (106 F) for Sunday. You don't have to be nuts to do this job but
jeez it helps!!!!

Cheers
OB

Thanks OB. I put them on the Fire 16 photo page. Amazing how dark the sky got at the Parliament House by 3PM. What time of day were the other dark shots taken? Ab.

"I am simply not prepared to risk the lives of volunteer firefighters to save a home where the owner has failed to take even the most basic bushfire precautionary measures."

"Bushfires are a natural part of the Australian landscape, and if people want to live in the semi-urban areas then they have to be accountable for their own safety."

"They need to have done prevention work before a crisis occurs and not sit back, do nothing and expect the cavalry to come to the rescue at the last minute."

"People often die in bushfires because they panic at the last minute, throw the family photos in the car and speed off as flames are licking at the back door. That is too late to act rationally."

Talk about a real fire leader for the 21st century, either in Australia, the US, or many other parts of our world................!

Dick Mangan

Good sense of humor in spite of the tough times. Be Safe. Ab.

Here's another photo of a 212 making a drop on the Sadler fire, ELKO BLM, Nevada 1999. The spots on the photo are bits of crud kicked up from the drop. The helo passed very close to my position on the hill top and blew a lot of stuff into the air.

FedFire

Put it on Helicopters 9. Ab.

Very nice website! Here is a few additional photos for your site. I hope you like them and will use them on your site.

Al Hymers

Thanks Al for the Superscooper and Martin Mars photos. That you in the Scooper cockpit? I put them on the Airtankers 6 photo page. Readers, if you want a few more details, go to the photo description page. For those interested, there are more photos of these two ships on the Airtankers 2 photo page. Ab.

It would be a different world if Sept 11 had not happened. Ab.

I ditto Stu. You've got the cart before the horse. Before you go to much further, check out the contracting primer in the FAQ section. It's not going to be easy to find a QUALIFIED engine boss. You'll learn fast enough that there is more to successful fire contracting than having an engine in your driveway and waiting for the phone to ring.

Word on the street is that everyone from your Aunt Bessie to your old high school English teacher have bought a wildland engine to contract with....Especially in Region 6. Could be a very interesting summer for dispatchers and contract officers. They may need bodyguards before this is all over...

Good luck with your new endeavor.
Snake River Sparky

Finding quality crew and keeping them is the harder part of running an engine operation. Pay will range greatly from company to company, we pay 180-250 a day per person in wages + expenses. dont forget uncle sam. You need to get licensed in your state, get a DOT number for interstate business. Tax identification Number. You're going to have to get set up with the regions on the EERA (emergency equipment rental agreement) this isnt a guarantee of work, just an agreement to work your engine that the gov has already inspected for an agreed upon price.

If you're in R6 - good luck, there are already over 600 pieces of apparatus available. Being a single engine company will be difficult. True there will be less employment hassles, less paperwork and worries, but you are trying to run a business. If your engine is not equipped with loose inventory - nozzles, nomex, hand tools, etc. It will cost just shy of 8,500.00 for the minimum engine inventory. Ab can give you my email address if you need more info (abs are good about that ;)

Good luck - read snake river sparkys letter on the FAQs page. he is a professional writer and makes it much more clearer than i can.

ericPW

Oddie

Just received several Emails from friends in the Victoria and Tasmania fire services in Australia: the Sunday afternoon temps in Adelaide (South Australia) were 113F (45C), and Monday's fire weather in Victoria (Melbourne area), New South Wales (Sydney and surrounding area) and Tasmania is forecasted as "extreme".

The Volunteers are getting run ragged, and all for no pay, too!
Dick Mangan

www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/19/1042911271082.html

Concerned Citizen

Check out the Australia Fires category on the News page for many articles on the fires. You Aussies, Be SAFE. Ab.

I basically agree with you but have a few points, Consider how often engine crews turn into handcrews on IA and how many times we are often called upon to perform assignments we are not "qualified" for so when we finally get that training assignment it is hardly our first exposure to the task, just the first time we have been allowed to get credit in our task book.

I agree it is unlikely that someone would get their initial single resource task book signed off in one assignment and not every assignment is going to offer enough exposure for even experienced people to get signed off in one time out. But sometimes the combination of prior experience and the quality of the assignment make that possible.

I have seen this requirement for two assignments pulled out on several occasions when a task book was completed and most have been less than concern for the quality of the job done, it is applied in an uneven fashion and not tied to experience or assignment quality. I saw highly experienced people with good 14-21 day assignments forced to take another assignment and other less experienced people who worked a shift of mop up allowed to pass with only one assignment. It was managements way of rewarding their buddies and keeping others out of the system.

In summery my complaint is not with the actual requirements as to pre reqs or a minimum number of assignments, I'm fine with either. My problem is with the people who don't follow the standards as written. If management wants CRWB to be a preq for all other Single resource bosses and a minimum number of assignments then do it, but come up with a standard and stick with it. In my experience these extra little requirements generally are management tools to control people.

When I was going for my ICT4 the FMO sat me down after a few assignments and had a little chat with me on issues unrelated to my job performance (I always received fully successful) or on my performance as an ICT4, then h