"THEY SAID IT" ARCHIVES
June, 2003
Home of the Wildland
FireFighter
| DATE |
|
| 06/30 |
Hey Gang,
Saw the post regarding the CDF hiring freeze and the RIF's paper's report.
Does anyone know if this is going to affect the current schedule
"A" contract counties, or more specifically, the current
firefighter/paramedic, fire apparatus engineer/paramedic list. I'm on the
list for several counties as fae/medic and on the rank 3 list. I know
there were some paperwork problems on the CDF side and have been told that
phone calls (offers of interviews) will be coming this week or next. Also,
I heard rumor that San Bernardino, San Diego, Riverside units came into
some FEMA $ to up-staff schedule B engines, and that one county's admin
chief was on the phone with Sacramento to find out how many personnel he
could hire.
Anyone out there in CDF land can confirm or deny the rumor or answer the
question about sched "A" fire personnel potentially losing their
positions??
AZ Trailblazer |
| 06/30 |
Re airtankers and the fire problem on the San Bernardino NF:
Good article SoCalCapt. I always understood that CDF got
planes from FEPP. They are flown by CDF contract pilots,
hence the need for the PSOB legislation in CA. Ownership
probably was an assumption the author made. I don't think
CDF would misrepresent itself intentionally.
We'll keep our fingers crossed that those beetle-killed trees in
San Bernardino don't torch off this summer.
Be safe, we have some flames and smoke up here in the north
part of the state.
NorCal Tom |
| 06/30 |
Been lookin' for a nail. Even an old rusty one will do. Gonna' drive it
in the wall to hang my spurs on. After near 40 years of resource
(read forest) protection and management, 34 years as a professional, I'm
hanging up my spurs today. Tomorrow is my first day of retirement.
Haven't done much fire in the past several years but still have it in my
blood. Guess I'll die with it there. A few observations, based on my
experience, for the pups wanting to get in:
The measure of a man (these days ff with my apology to the women) is not
his accent or looks but his performance on the line or at his job at camp.
Regionalism, racism, sexism, or any other ism has no place on the
fireline.
If you really want to LEARN firefighting, particularly with a view toward
supervision, go to work for a State forestry agency in a State where there
is still a fire problem (still a few left in the South and maybe Texas).
The training is pretty good and they fight 10 fires to a Fed agencies' 1.
They handle most fires on IA and will give you decision making
responsibility early on. Maybe the best in the world at mechanized attack
and suppression of small wildland fires. If you want to work on large
fires, especially in supervision, move on to a Fed agency in a few years.
The experience should help you get in though some Feds seem to have a bias
toward State people. Even with out-sourcing, I expect the Feds will retain
control of most upper level supervision in the large fire organization.
Wherever you start, go on every wildfire or Rx you can. Closely observe
how, where, and why a fire burns as it does. Try to make sense of training
you receive by seeing how fire behavior principles play out on the ground.
The extra two minutes you may gain by knowing what a fire is likely about
to do may someday save you or some fellow firefighters.
In my opinion, with no desire to belittle anyone, the overall pecking
order in wildland fire suppression expertise is:
- USFS - best large fire organizers and tactics appliers in the world,
in my opinion. Sometimes suffer from an exaggerated idea of how good
they are that creates an elitist attitude which is off-putting to
others.
- States - With CDF at the top of that list
- BLM and other Fed agencies
- Vollies - though the quality and training varies widely from
excellent to "shouldn't be on a fire"
Well, all THAT should generate some response. Before you start throwing
too many rocks, know I have worked for, or very closely with, three of the
four on the above list.
Anyway, while my knees and back are still in reasonably good shape it's
time for me to hang up the spurs. One of these days, if you look around in
a bar, roadside park, or other place where wildland firefighters may be
seen and some gray-headed, somewhat overweight, guy gives you the
thumbs-up or the overhead double-time fist pump, it just may be me.
Slay the dragon and remember the highest priority: everybody comes
back.
Mossback
Best to ya Mossback. Don't be a stranger just 'cause yer retirin'. Ab. |
| 06/30 |
The Friday Fire on the Six Rivers NF is 495 acres as of 0800 today,
evacuations
have been done, so far no structures lost, but there are a lot of houses
in the
area. The Team that assumed command is Wendt's Type 2 team. Still some
concern
about hot areas backing into Madden Creek drainage above Sandy Bar day use
area.
The rest of the Six Rivers is hot and dry, and there have been 3 fires in
the
past 2 days here. Fire Season on the SRF begins!
-MJ |
| 06/30 |
Re San Juan Islands fire:
DD,
Yeah that one was close. Melted the vinyl cover on the propane tanks on
one of the trailers.
BML |
| 06/30 |
Summary info on the Davis Fire 12 mi W of Lapine, Oregon
Size: 16,000 acres
doc
This just came in from the Information People on that fire. Ab.
Fire has been burning actively in lodgepole flats and mixed conifer
slopes, both with large component of dead. Cold Front passage yesterday
caused high wind condition leading to growth in fire size.
Resources: 20 crews, 3 of them hotshot crews, (10 more crews on order), 3
helos, 2 light, 1 heavy, 626 personnel fighting the fire. Central Oregon
IMT is in charge. (Type II Team). |
| 06/30 |
Ab-
I have a couple of questions to post....
1. Does anyone know where to get a good quality picture of the growling,
snarling Smokey swinging the pulaski like Wyoming IHC and other crews use?
2. Out of curiosity why did 2/3 of the crews demob from the Aspen Fire?
Were they that short on time? or did it slow down that much? Is Prineville
still there?
watch your LACES....
Pigpen
Here's the link to the ASPEN FIRE SUMMARY: www.fireteam-sw.com/humphrey/aspen.
We've also gotten an update this morning. I am not going to post the
whole thing, but here are some important parts for firefighters. Basic
story is that the worst is almost over. There are 4 hotshot crews left and
Prineville IHC is not one of them. Read the fire info summary below. Ab. |
| 06/30 |
ASPEN FIRE, CORONADO NATIONAL FOREST
Information Office: 520-749-6208
CONTAINED: 65%
FUELS: Aspen fire is burning in heavy brush, ponderosa pine and mixed
conifer and a mixture of ponderosa pine, oak woodland and chaparral.
SUMMARY: www.fireteam-sw.com/humphrey/aspen.
OBJECTIVES: Crews will continue to patrol and mop up along the north and
northwest flanks of the fire. Aircraft will monitor the fire movement on
Sameniego Ridge. Fire managers foresee reaching 80% containment in the
near future, however the remaining 20% on the south end of the fire will
be monitored and suppression action taken as necessary.
CONCERNS: There are concerns for a partially buried, but mostly above
ground wooden power line located along Cargodera Canyon, west of the
Wilderness of Rocks. Aircraft are attempting to check the fire as it
advances towards the line. The power line provides electricity to the Mt.
Lemmon communities. Three structures are threatened as the burnout
progresses to the west and south. Slopes are extremely steep and the
terrain is not suitable for safe firefighting. There are no natural safety
zones and no topographic features that could be utilized for line
construction.
RESOURCES: As areas on the southeast and northeast of the fire are
reaching an acceptable level of containment, resources are being released
for rest or reassignment on other fires. Currently four 20-person Hot Shot
Crews, four type II crews, four air tankers, seven helicopters,
twenty-eight engines and two dozers are assisting with suppression
efforts. There are thirty-eight tenders providing water to helicopters and
engines. Approximately 468 people are assigned. |
| 06/30 |
hey Nerd,
Thanks for the proper spelling for Sopapilla's. It was real late when I
posted and my spelling/typing wasn't up to par. Oh yes, fry bread. One of
the last great cardiac arrest causing foods one will ever enjoy eating.
Being a whiteboy firefighter working on a local Indian Reservation, fry
bread and pinto beans is one of our staples here at the fire station.
Can't get enough of it some days!! LOL. The pow wows are great for at
least a dozen or so fry bread stands. I have actually had fry bread or
Navajo Tacos fed to me on fires (Port a Pit caterers out of Tucson).
It goes with our saying, lets be real careful out there. 4th of July is
coming up, the kids are getting restless, and its really hot and dry. I
live in Northern Az at 5500' elevation and yesterday it was 109 w/ Rh 2%,
and no monsoon on the horizon for us......
AZ Trailblazer |
| 06/30 |
fires in oregon now include
1.skull creek (<100)
2.bear lake
3.sulfur creek
4.davis
5.juniper (<100)
6.willow (<100)
7. daisy hill
ab can you put a link to oregon fires like you did
the arizona and new mexico fires on the news page?
doc
I added that link to Oregon fires under "current events" on
the fire news page.
There may be other articles on the Oregon fires that come up under the
more general search categories. You might want to look beyond just one
current event category. Many articles out there. My, my, the Large
Fire Map looks different than it did yesterday. Ab. |
| 06/30 |
Hi Ab,
The photos I am sending are of a control burn the Forest Service did about
30 min. north of Charlotte NC. The Dozer is a D-5H with a trailer fire
plow. Hope you can use them.
Jonathan
Nice ones, dozer and flame. Put them on the Equipment
5 photo page. Ab. |
| 06/30 |
This is from GovExec:
“The Forest Service is weighing plans to let private contractors
compete for the jobs of more than 10,000 employees, including those in
its wildfire program, to meet White House competitive sourcing goals.”
The rest of this story is at www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0603/062903p1.htm.
I don’t want to hear “competition is good” from anyone unless
they've read the A-76 circular and really understand the process. It’s
at www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars/a076/a76_rev2003.pdf
. This isn’t competition where the best (or even the cheapest) man wins.
This is a mountain of paperwork and a bureaucrat somewhere looks it over
and decides whether or not you still have a job. This is forced
outsourcing, pure and simple.
They tell me initial attack is the most effective. So what are you
going to do about this?
- GT |
| 06/30 |
sorta chuckling as I read some not so recent posts
first, I heard about the so cal flash Thurs nite; looked at the NIC site,
and the CA OES/CDF sit report for Fri no mention. me thinks (KNOWS) news
is faster here than in gov't rpts.
second: yea, I've heard the complaints about ROSS; dealt with similar IT
programmers nightmares in the past; but that was before LIVES WERE IN
DANGER! don't blame the programmers, they can only work with the
information/needs parameters someone else provided. In the meantime, keep
a handy supply of card stock - no GACC should be foolish enuff to depend
on requests being guaranteed as filled until a confirmation is received!
if a server crashes no one knows what is lost or stuck in the pipeline; so
instead of losing your cool, keep the folk on the line safe!
third: CDF can't shut down, voters will revolt, heads will roll.
fourth: boys and girls, regardless your age; BE SMART, BE SAFE! nothing:
ego, reputation, fancy joint, etc. is worth risking your life!
BLM Bob, TY for the insight & chuckles you provide.
I think I can speak for many lurkers, when the wildland fires are out
because of winter rains or snows & the dragon dens up. Imagine this:
dead of winter, hot shower, sleep, and after a few brews and a full belly
sitting around a big log fire in home fireplace sharing FF "war
stories".
In the meantime, July is on the horizon; think smart and BE SAFE your
loved ones want you back after this summers adrenaline rush
NZ5
OES didn't post the info on the pipe bomb left near the fire, they
e-mailed it out perhaps so as to avoid giving anyone ideas... Ab. |
| 06/30 |
AZ Trailblazer:
EEesh, what a gabacho! You were eating sopapillas (ll pronounced like a
y)! Puff bread or fry bread is flatter and round instead of triangular.
And in my part of the world (far northern New Mexico) you want to be real
careful calling it Mexican food…it’s Spanish food, and don’t you
forget it. If you’re ever up in our neck of the woods, stop by the
Questa Café and have a Navajo taco for lunch with a sopapilla and honey
for desert. You can just feel your arteries clang (a Navajo taco is fry
bread topped with beans, “taco meat”, sour cream, guacamole, cheese,
salsa, tomato, and lettuce) but it’s so worth it. Besides, there’ll
almost certainly be a couple of firefighters in the place…just look for
the radios and introduce yourself.
Nerd on the Fireline |
| 06/29 |
Greetings Ab's and all,
Finally got in a new brush rig, we are all proud of it, me especially
'cause I designed it. We paid for it with funding from Tx Forest Service.
This is a good example of HB 2604 funding at work. I will post a pic just
as soon as I get back in the station with my camera. We have to baby it
for couple of weeks though because it supposed to be the centerpiece truck
at the vendor show at Texas A&M prior to the annual municipal school.
All of the torrential rains that slowed our fire season in May and June
are gone now. They have simply postponed our inevitable season that is now
about to get fired up. It really looks now that we will simply have a
later and more volatile season than ever.
Everyone stay safe,
Keith |
| 06/29 |
BML, checking through the fire news articles under Wildland Fire. Found
this one in the San Juans. This one yours?
www.sanjuanislander.com/groups/fire_san_juan/06-27-03.shtml
Nice photos.
DD |
| 06/29 |
We've got a fire on Friday Ridge Road, off Hwy 299 (some 30 mi East of
Eureka, CA, nearer Willow Creek); it's spotting and torching. Lots of
smoke. It was 120 acres when we drove past on 299 around 5:30 PM, said
they had more than 250 firefighters working. Don't know which AT is
dropping mud, but there is one. I could hear it. Also saw one Type 2 or 3
helo. It was really windy this afternoon. Not good news.
Lots of WUI residences up there on Friday Ridge. Wonder if they'll call it
Friday (even if it is Sunday!). Some homes being evacuated, I talked to
one of the residents while we were stopped. Hope everyone has good
defensible space. Lots of homes with lots of brush, everywhere. How soon
people forget the Big Bar Complex...
The CHP site (quick search FIRE) says
the Friday Ridge Fire was started by a car fire. Looks like there are
numerous fires in CA, check the Fort Tejon notes.
Wonder if they'll call up NorCal Team 2? Be safe.
Mellie
PS Tahoe Terrie, thanks for the monsoon links. Interesting stuff.
BLM Bob, neat map. Thanks. |
| 06/29 |
I don't think the WFU fires in NM will be going into suppression mode
any
time soon, other than the odd perimeter maintenance here and there. This
can always change, but for now it's continued WFU.
And the Southwest Area monsoons seem to be more or less on time, except
maybe to the west:
www.fs.fed.us/map_swa_monsoon.jpg
BLM Bob |
| 06/29 |
SoCal report at 1600
Fire at Fort Tejon on I-5 southbound which is closed.
1000 acres
0% contained
NorCal
The 97 Fire at the Mt. Shasta Vista Subdivision, a
rural subdivision in Siskiyou Co., near Yreka
400 acres, 20 mph winds, 40+ people evacuated.
CDF engines in route.
Starting to cook in CA. Be safe.
AL
PS, the Lake Isabella fire is contained. Brief summary
here: bakersfieldchannel.com |
| 06/29 |
The following link is to an article in Government Executive
Magazine that could be of major interest to lots of folks.
www.govexec.com
wes |
| 06/29 |
davis fire update (12 mi W of Lapine in central OR):
3,000 acres, 20% contained, 172 personnel, there
were strong southerly winds and a cold front came
through--> long range spotting, crowning, major runs.
some evacuations in the davis lake fire area, campers
along wickiup reservoir and several dwellings.
getting smoky here in the bend OR area.
sulpher creek fire update (5 mi SE of Mapleton on the
central OR coast):
650 acres, 30% contained, 160 personnel
doc |
| 06/29 |
Mellie,
Here are a few sites that have info about AZ monsoon.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/Flagstaff/science/monsoon.htm
http://ag.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/html/weather/monsoon.htm
http://nimbo.wrh.noaa.gov/Tucson/monsoon/monsoon.html
Test tomorrow.
AZ Trailblazer,
I don't know if those FUM fires will turn into suppression fires.
Someone out there must know.
Tahoe Terrie |
| 06/29 |
Hi All,
I have a question about the fire season winds of AZ and NM and the monsoon
winds and rain. Tahoe Terrie, I looked at the NOAA site and the smoke
columns in R3 move to the East. So prevailing winds in the fire season
must be from the West (or Northwest) bringing air from the hot dry deserts
of Southern CA and Southern NV.
The monsoon wet season must start when the system changes direction and
wind direction shifts. All I can think of is that the winds shift around
to come in from the S bringing Gulf of Mexico or Gulf of Cortez moisture
that feeds the thunderstorms. RH goes up, rains come. Why would that
happen? Why in July? Jet stream changes? Atmospheric pressure system
changes? I heard the monsoon change is predicted to be late this year,
maybe by several weeks in -- mid-July. Anyone know what makes the AZ and
NM seasons change? (I hope that S-130 in R3 covers all this stuff. In R5
we get info on Foehn winds, North winds, Santa Annas, Chinooks.)
Another random thought. With the fine fuels as tall and drying as they are
in Northern CA today, do mop up crews need to be extra careful? Seems like
tall grasses could burn fiercely and might throw off more spots that could
entrap unaware firefighters. Not fretting over it yet, just trying to
think ahead.
Thanks for any clarification on my wind and weather questions.
Watch out for your inexperienced Type II crews.
Be Safe All.
Mellie |
| 06/29 |
Dear Ab;
Here’s a new logo for your collection, from a brand new crew: the
Enchanted Circle Fire Chasers. We’re a vollie Handcrew based out of Red
River, New Mexico, and made up of nominees from structural departments in
Red River, Questa, Latir, Angel Fire, Taos, Taos Ski Valley, and Rio
Fernando. This is our first season in existence, but I think we’re going
to be something pretty special.
Your site is much appreciated, Ab; it’s good for getting all us newbies
up to speed on the fire world.
Jax
I finally got it resized and put it on the Logos
9 photo page. Ab. |
| 06/29 |
I just wanted to submit a pic of our type 6x Contract engine based in
R-6, has a 235 gallon tank with foam proportioner and 4 wheel drive. We
painted it bright purple because we were a new business durin' the 2002
season, and wanted to do something that would make it stand out on the
fireline, so people we worked for would recognize us if they liked our
work on previous assignments. (so far it's worked) lol
SM
Put it on the Engines
7 photo page.
Also got in another photo of from the Bomberos Forestales of Bolivia.
Posted that on the Handcrew
9 photo page. Ab. |
| 06/29 |
Hi Ab.... as you might know, California is in the middle of a budget
crisis (and who isnt). Rumors have been flying around that CDF (California
Dept Forestry) is in a hiring freeze. I have looked on the CDF homepage
and have found nothing. my question for you is if you know anything about
this and if they are going to do their mid summer (2nd phase) of hiring
that usually occurs in mid july?
Thanks
LS |
| 06/29 |
Yup, Initial attack is getting heavier in the Northwest. We've been
running one or more every day. It's shaping up to be our worst season in
20 years in NW Washington.
Watched an air show over a fire on Vancouver Island as we were mopping a
small one ourselves. A sizeable column, but I haven't found any news on
it. Anyone know a good BC sit report site?
BML
BML, Check the Links
page under "world". Under Canadian Interagency Forest Fire
Center, we have the best links for fire intelligence we could find for
different regions (provinces) in Canada. If anyone knows more, please let
us know. Ab. |
| 06/29 |
Report at 1030 last night was that the Davis Fire (Davis Lake, near
Lapine OR) was 1500 acres at that time and actively burning in lodgepole
pine. 19 engines and 6 private Type 2 crews were on it, 172 people total.
Hoff's Central Oregon Type 2 IMT was slated to transition in this morning.
Rudi
NIFC
Map of more large fires... Ab. |
| 06/29 |
several fires in oregon. now one near davis lake,
1200 acres and growing. several others as well.
time to get busy.
doc |
| 06/29 |
A noteworthy article about airtankers and the fire problem on the San
Bernardino NF...
www.sbsun.com
The article says CDF owns the airtankers. I always thought they were on
loan from the Federal Excess Property Program (FEPP) and flown by CDF
contract pilots.
As of last year, if my recollections are correct, the CDF helicopters,
OV-10's, and airtankers are all excess property on loan to the state for
firefighting purposes and not "owned".
Did something change?
SoCalCapt |
| 06/29 |
Anyone know the status and size of the fire in Oregon,
West of Lapine? Started about 5PM yesterday.
OR 'yote |
| 06/29 |
Re sweet tea:
we put about 1 cup of suger per gallon of tea to
make sooooooooo good.... NCBRUSH6 |
| 06/28 |
hey Gang,
Just back from a 10 day outer on the Cherry and Picture fires here in AZ
and taking a day off. This morning I was called up as MEDL somewhere on
Gila . A little moisture coming on to the White Mountains and Gila. LOTS
of DRY LIGHTNING in Eastern AZ/Western NM. I have been told from a rep
from th BIA that all the fire use fires on the Gila are going to turn into
suppression fires in the next 48 hours, due to the weather, lack of local
resources, and 4th of July......
Can anyone confirm or deny this??? (R3 Disp or Tahoe Terrie)
Y'all been tak'in bout language and accents an all, reminds me when I was
over in Texas '98 supporting their fire season. I was STLE to a bunch of
AZ engines and had an opportunity to work with a guy from TN. His big
thing was drinking sweet tea and that "puff bread".
I had no clue what the heck puff bread was, nor did our waitress. He went
on to say that he wanted some puff bread and that the locals called it
sophia's. You know, sophia, you eat it with butter or honey or add some
refired beans to it. Come to find out he wanted a SOPAPIA (Mexican desert
bread). I laugh my @ss off every time I think of it!
Lets be real carefull out there. The weather is getting weird again!
AZ Trailblazer
PS Just what do they put in sweet tea to make it so 'gash dern' terrible
to drink?? |
| 06/28 |
Adios, Cache Queen!
Sorry I missed your party last nite, but I raised
a cold one in your honor with Smokey's Balloon
crew!
Don't drop off the site, now that you're a "certified
ole fart retiree": we still need your valuable imput!
Mollysboy
Happy retirement, Cache Queen. Do stay tuned in. Glad to see you made
the tv screen on that CNN special. Ab. |
| 06/28 |
We Need Your Help Please!
Prior to the Aspen Fire the Mount Lemmon Fire District had ordered a new
fire engine to replace their 1960 Engine pumper. As a result of the fire,
the department will not financially be able to have the money to pay for
that engine when it arrives this weekend. In order to keep the engine, the
district needs to raise $40,000 by Monday 6/30/2003 at close of business.
The total cost of the engine is $240,000.00. The initial down payment on
delivery is the $40,000.00 with $16,000.00 per year for 12 years.
We are in need of financial donations to help us meet this deadline. We
ask for your generous support to help us accomplish this goal and to pass
this request on to friends and businesses in a timely fashion to meet our
deadline.
Donations can be sent to Mount Lemon Fire District at any Bank One Branch.
Account Number 648556090
Thank you for your continued support during this difficult time.
Mount Lemmon Fire District
Ab Note: More specific information...
*Make check payable to the Mount Lemmon Fire District.
*Mail to P.O. Box 759,
Mount Lemmon, AZ, 85619.
If you want to make a donation via Bank One, go in to your bank and ask
how you can do that most expeditiously. Bank One (AZ), Account No.
648556090. Donations are tax-deductible. |
| 06/28 |
Update: ASPEN FIRE, CORONADO NATIONAL FOREST
Information Office: 520-749-6208 Date: June 28, 2003, 9:00 a.m.
www.fireteam-sw.com/humphrey/aspen
LOCATION: The Aspen Fire is located in the Santa Catalina Mountains, 20
miles north of Tucson, AZ.
STARTED: June 17, 2003 ACRES: 34,000
CAUSE: Human caused
CONTAINED: 50%
NOTE: There are no evacuations planned for the communities of Oracle or
Catalina. The Fire Information Center at the Catalina Library is open to
answer resident’s questions. The Oracle Center will no longer be in
service beginning today.
FUELS: The Aspen Fire is burning in heavy brush, ponderosa pine, mixed
conifer and
a mixture of ponderosa pine, oak woodland and chaparral.
SUMMARY: It was another good day for firefighters on the Aspen Fire. Winds
were still moderate allowing firefighters to make good progress. Weather
conditions however, remained hot and dry. Crews on the north end of the
fire continued to burn off of constructed dozer lines and existing roads.
For a time, their advance was delayed when they encountered unknown
chemicals in the vicinity of a mine. Crews were pulled away from the site
until it was determined that the chemicals posed no danger. Firefighters
continued to be aided by helicopters dropping aerial ignition devices in
areas where access was difficult. This was done to further strengthen
control lines. The eastern flank of the fire held today. The fire
continues to back slowly against the wind on the west and south edges of
the fire. There was some damage sustained to the Trico Powerline that
services Mt. Lemon.
OBJECTIVES: Primary objectives include strengthening and holding the
fireline on the southeast and east sides of the fire, continuing to
strengthen and hold the north end of the fire, continue to monitor the
west side of the fire and prevent any threat to structures or the
community of Catalina, and minimizing damage to the Trico Powerline. The
structure group is still patrolling and mopping up remaining hot spots in
the Summerhaven community.
CONCERNS: The first concern is always to provide for firefighter and
public safety, then to protect homes and other structures. Other concerns
include protecting the remaining communication facilities on Radio Ridge,
determining the best way to control the very steep southwest corner of the
fire, determining the best way to mitigate concerns about the Trico power
line near the southwest edge of the fire and mitigating damage to
threatened and endangered species habitat of the Mexican spotted owl and
peregrine falcon.
RESOURCES: Currently, twenty-20 person Hot Shot Crews, twelve type II
crews, eight helicopters, 41 engines, one dozer, two air tankers and 1,269
personnel are assigned to the fire. Demobilization of some resources will
continue today. These resources will either be released to their home
units or reassigned to other fires.
RESTRICTIONS: The Mount Lemmon Highway is closed at the base of the
mountain at milepost 0. The Control Road from Oracle and the San Manuel
Road has been closed by Pinal County near Oracle Hill Mine. Sabino Basin
Trail above stop 9 is closed to entry. For safety, hikers are discouraged
from using upper elevation trails until further notice.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION CENTER: The Catalina Information Center is located
in the Catalina Library. All questions for Incident Command at Sabino High
School, please call 749-6207/8 or 760-9142.
INCIDENT COMMAND POST LOCATION: Sabino High School, 5000 N. Bowes Road,
and Tucson. |
| 06/28 |
From Firescribe:
Followup on the IA on the Aspen Fire article of a few days ago.
www.dailystar.com |
| 06/28 |
here in mid northzone CA yesterday it was 106+ in the valley, high 80s
in the high country (TG no more north winds). RH is low, no on-shore winds
thus no delta breeze in the valley nor the hills; no help from Mom Nature
anytime in the next few days
July 4 is on the horizon and the hills are already filled to capacity with
cityslickers.
HEADS UP!!!! BE SAFE!!!!! lurkers and FF alike!
NZ5 |
| 06/28 |
Another one for the lingo book-
In the time of no heavy air tankers…..
Washing Machine Charley-- Single Engine Air Tankers
(PC Disclaimer----since EVERYONE lately has a decidedly
lowered sense of humor, this term was made up without the
intent of disparaging, cutting down, or insulting anyone. Honest)
LCES and stay safe everyone….
Beigefoot |
| 06/28 |
Foxfire,
I wholeheartedly agree with you, It is not a sever problem, it is not a
wire problem it is a PROGRAMMING problem.
The more I look at ROSS I feel the program is report driven. Meaning that
the programmers, took a list of desired reports (from who I don't know)
and worked backwards to develop a program. Everything ROSS does is tied to
a report of some sort. Look at the travel screen. If a resource is
scheduled to leave for an incident the next day at 1500, the resource is
still shown on the home units resource list, at 1500 it is changed to
"inroute" and at the arrival time it is again changed to
"at the incident" and all tied to a report somehow. What was
wrong with just having a comment box on the "card" with
"DOT MOB" information? Once the resource is assigned it should
not be shown on the home units resource list but as assigned to the
incident with an ETA. Very simple, no travel legs to build, just a
statement in a documentation box. Also once a resource hits its ETA, it is
shown at the incident, what is the check to insure that the resource
arrived at the incident? With cards you got a call from the incident and
they told you who had arrived and you just marked in the little box. If
the box was not marked the dispatcher "went on a hunt" for the
resource if it had not shown up in a reasonable time. Keystroke how will
it work with ROSS?
And while I am on my soapbox, what was the reasoning behind the
"radio buttons?" I know that is the term in vogue with
programmers now. Untold dollars were spent training dispatcher how to
utilize the new screens, they even went so far as putting a color coded
card in the "tips" page. Why couldn't the program just have a
"card" as the main screen, that way a "block" could
have been selected and various dropdowns could have appeared -- the
dispatcher filling in the requested information and not getting lost-as
happens now!
I am not a fan of ROSS, the more I work with it, the more I feel it is a
crappy bit of programming. Don't tell me it is just new technology and I
will have to get used to it. When I buy software, I expect it to work as
advertised! How many millions has been spent on ROSS and what we got was a
BETA version at best!
Waiting imPatiently |
| 06/27 |
Here's what I could find out from the 209 about the Lake Isabella CA Sawmill
Fire.
As of 1810 this evening, this is the info on the Sawmill Fire at Dutch
Flat, N of Lake Isabella. It's 450 acres, 25% contained. Today there was
spotting due to erratic winds in and around structures.
12 hr projection is that Wofford Heights, Hungry Gulch, Dutch Flat,
Isabella Highlands are potentially at risk. 350 residences are threatened.
The Isabella Highlands evacuation is still in effect. Also evacuated
surrounding campgrounds due to spot fires. Closured Hwy 155 as the main
electrical distribution line runs through the middle of the fire. Adverse
winds, steep terrain, inaccessibility to structures are concerns.
Tomorrow's Forecasted Weather: Wind Speed: 8-12 mph; Temperature: 99-101;
Wind Direction: northwest; Relative Humidity: 6-12.
Resources on the fire: 3 SR Type 1 crews, 7 state ST Type 1 crews, 1 SR
Type 2 crews, 3 Type 2 helos, 1 Type 1 helo, 10 SR engines, 7 ST engines,
1 ST dozers, Overhead, etc to make up 438 personnel. 8 ATs
Be safe all,
SoCal CDF |
| 06/27 |
The LP sent an immediate need strike team of engines and our helicopter
out of Arroyo Grande to Lake Isabella. I thought I heard them call it the
Sawmill Fire on the Greenhorn District SNF. Correct me if I am wrong with
the District and fire name.
An-R5er
Name is right, not on the National Forest. If interested, check out the
location on Mapquest, Links page, geography. Enter "Lake Isabella and
CA" Ab. |
| 06/27 |
Got some starts in SoCal ...
brush fire at Lake Isabella, Kern Co.
brush fire at SR18 at Big Bear Dam, Arrowhead
SoCal FF |
| 06/27 |
Has anyone read John Macleans' new book "Fire and Ashes" ?
What a great perspective from the human factor viewpoint.
Ground Pig. |
| 06/27 |
Take a look at the lightning busts over eastern AZ and NM now!
www.lightningstorm.com
Terrie |
| 06/27 |
Keestroke
I really don't give a hoot how they fix the server problem, that's not my
concern, what is my concern is the safety and support of the firefighters
on the front lines.......A dispatcher's responsibility is to support the
firefighting community from the ICs and IMTs with resources to the
groundpounders' equipment in a quick, reliable, efficient manner. I will
concede that the card stock system has its flaws also, mainly human error,
however, that human error coupled with a program that is
non-user-friendly, and admittedly cumbersome, is detrimental.
You said it yourself .................."ROSS will work, but it will
take a couple of years, yes years, to work out the bugs."
............. "but someday soon it will get easier and things will
run smooth and those cards will be a thing of the past. Change comes hard
in public safety."
My concerns, exactly.....years to work out the bugs........public safety.
FoxFire |
| 06/27 |
I had to laugh at RWR's list and Ab's comments. It reminded of one time
at
a fire when I was a DIVS and there was this crew from Arkansas. After the
morning Division briefing, I was standing by and listening to the Arkansas
crew as they got lined out for the day. I was completely baffled by their
accents as they talked among themselves - I could barely follow what they
were saying to each other and it made me wonder how I sounded to them. So
I
leaned in and said to them, "Your accents are really something. Let
me ask
you, how do I sound to you guys, can you follow what I'm saying?" One
ol'
boy spit some snuff and said, "Aww hay-ull, we kin unnerstai-an yew a
LAWT
better 'an we kin unnerstai-an' each awther!"
Yers in universal understandin'
BLM Bob
I have sometimes wondered how people who write in here sound, what kind
of accents, how raspy, deep or high their voice. Ab. |
| 06/27 |
Ab, I have a contribution.
For those LURKERS with time to burn who would like to view the smoke
plumes from the R3 fires, check the Links
page under Weather. Go to the GOES 8 Interactive link. Read the
directions the Abs provide. If you click 1) 100% and 2) Animate
and then 3) click on the state of AZ on the map, you get a close up
animation of AZ and most of NM. The plumes are not as dramatic in the
morning as they are later. Interesting to check.
Also, lightning is predicted in the SW this afternoon. The weather sites
on the Links page that show lightning (Lightning Explorer, Accuweather)
are also interesting to check every so often.
Enuf,
Tahoe Terrie |
| 06/27 |
Another take on FF terms.
Communicating with the Red Team
Working with the Red Team, the Type 1 Fire Team from the Southern United
States can be a challenge. The task lies not in fire suppression, but in
actually communicating with team members. Many have heard terms and
expressions that are not used in the West, most believe, are not used in
the English language at all. But the Red Team's got em'. So for safety and
training purposes, here is a glossary of terms to help the rest of the
firefighters and support personnel communicate with the Red Team.
1) Yallerdup - refers to a person wearing Nomex (yellow) fire clothes.
"They're all yallerdup and ready to fight fire".
2) Stanchanicart - used by overhead at fire camp. An extension cord.
3) Directly - soon or right away
4) Purtnar - very close or similar. "I'm purtnar starvin' ".
5) Swuft - level of intelligence. "He's not too swuft is he?"
6) Frost on the grits bush - The weather is very cold.
7) Time to butcher the hogs - another phrase meaning the weather is cold.
8) Cheetyit? - this asks if you have dined recently.
9) Howzyomamanem? - (phonetically: howz/yo/mama/nem) - this asks you about
the health and general well being of your family.
10) Yontsum? - this asks you if you would like to partake of what the
asker has; i.e. "yontsum coffee?"
11) Youins - a reference to a group of people when the asker is not sure
of the number in the group. "I think we've got enough for
youins."
12) Yall - a direct address to a group of people. "See yall
later."
13) Allyall - plural of yall.
14) Coves, holler, run, and draw - these are all terms referring to a
piece of land, in most cases a canyon or gully.
15) Ridge - a more specific reference to any piece of land without
standing water.
16) Skunkin round - a fire that is not burning hot or spreading fast.
17) Narry - long "a" - a small or slim opening. "That's to
narry to get thru."
18) Narry - soft "a" - meaning without. "I ain't got narry
a thing."
19) Yamway - refers to a person going off in a certain direction.
"You go this way and we'll go yamway."
20) The following terms refer to a wildland fire burning actively:
" Woofin' "
" Hottern' a depo stove "
" Runnin' like a turpentine dog "
" Rompin' and stompin' "
" Diggin' taters "
" Runnin' right smartly "
" Snortin' "
" Walkin' the dog "
RMR
haw haw haw haw. I'm sure that Southern Area folks have some western
terms/ pronunciations of ours that they have trouble with. Communication
on a fire... Must speak the same language... Ab. |
| 06/27 |
Here's a scary prospect:
California Department Of Forestry Announces Layoffs
Cuts Would Not Take Effect Until After This Fire Season
www.kxtv10.com
AL |
| 06/27 |
RE: jersey boy & nerd on the fire lines posts on homes in the
interface
I certainly don’t have all the answers, but when the responsible
wildland agency runs into this situation (if there isn’t some law to
force the issue) they need to document- document- document. Many moons ago
we had a similar situation where one of the burned out homeowners filed a
lawsuit against the agency but the judge threw it out as the agency had
shown where we had informed the landowner of the problem, informed them on
what they could do to help protect their home etc and they had taken no
action.
I personally have no problem saying (and I have done this) to these types,
that if that’s the way they feel they shouldn’t expect suppression
personnel to risk their welfare trying to protect their property when they
haven’t lifted a finger to even take the simplest of precautions. And
(where other homes are adjacent) "when" their home burns if
there is a fire they are putting additional risk to their neighbors homes,
so if they burn they should be prepared for legal action against them from
their neighbors.
Although its hard for some of us to fathom, some people just don’t have
the faintest idea of wildfire at all, especially when life long "city
folk" purchase their dream home in the WUI. I have actually had
people tell me "those pine trees wont burn, they are green!"
Education is the key, if for nothing else to PYA
Pulaski |
| 06/27 |
Firefox
While that fixed that problem, it has always been known it will a pipe
issue since it is tied to the internet, not a local server. We in everyday
life use the internet to do everyday business, but they are usually spaced
out, even with all the people in the world. We all do not order 45 things
from eBay at the same time, so we really do not see the slow down. I know
the ROOS group promises it will not be a issue in public, but behind
closed doors, they admit they are having problems and need to keep working
on it. Look at cable modems, more people use it, it slows down. Just a
fact of life. I know, DSL doesn't do that. Sure.....
ROSS will work, but it will take a couple of years, yes years, to work out
the bugs. And the dispatch community will get frustrated, wanting to grab
them safe and easy cards, but someday soon it will get easier and things
will run smooth and those cards will be a thing of the past. Change comes
hard in public safety..
Just remember everyone it is not a CAD program. It is a resource ordering
tool. So we will be using 2 primary computer software programs to get
those resources to the incident. CAD for initial attack and ROSS for
tracking all those. Can you say Alt-Tab? But you will see how a little
mouse will make life easier once you get used to it.
People still hate MIRPS, but I bet they would tell you it sure is easier
and faster to UTF or cancel an order.
Keestrokes |
| 06/27 |
NorCal Tom,
Here's what I wrote in response to the author of the article on the AT
pilot's board:
There are many reasons why a fire might not be picked up on IA and they
usually relate to resources being available, but not always. Could also be
terrain, weather, safety issues, communication, etc etc.
ATs usually can't stop a fire on IA without backup. Groundpounder support
is needed. Read the post some sections down on this site about retardant
coverage and necessary groundpounder followup. And where were the
groundpounders when the Aspen Fire started? If none were available, seems
less likely tankers would be deployed alone. Money down the drain. All
this is really just speculation. I can tripple promise you that things are
never as simple as first thought. To the reporter of the article: Why
don't you go to the IMT and ask what the strategy was???
Groundpounder |
| 06/26 |
Were smokejumpers available? Hotshots? Groundpounders?
JGC |
| 06/26 |
Here's a new article on the Aspen Fire. A reporter looking to place
blame? second guessing Initial Attack failure?
As most wildland firefighters know, the 1-3% of fires that escape IA and
EA are the ones that can end up costing big bucks. Why are they not picked
up on IA? Why was the Aspen not picked up on IA?
Well, bring in the Monday morning quarterbacks. This reporter thinks it
might be how long it took the ATs to arrive. www.azstarnet.com.
On most fires it's a lack of resources... This year we have fewer ATs.
Sure. Why not pick on that resource? ATs are "sexy" but also not
effective unless backed up by groundpounders.
Comments?
NorCal Tom |
| 06/26 |
Keestrokes......
ROSS did have a system outage (read: crash) on the 23rd....just had an
update, a portion said..
"The system outage (of 6/23/2003) was directly caused by an
incorrect switch setting for the data base logging function known as
LOG_ CHECKPOINT_ TIMEOUT. ORACLE Corporation had initially suggested a
value of 900 seconds. This value was too small which caused transaction
posting to slow down. The value was changed to 10,000 seconds. This is
not a setting which is typically monitored. A monitoring process will
now be established to mitigate any future opportunity for this to occur.
The MTS_MAX_SERVERS setting on the database was raised from to 45 which
allows for more simultaneous server processes".
So there...business as usual....although rumor has it that the Southwest
threw in the towel and is using card stock.....
Foxfire |
| 06/26 |
This is the apprenticeship announcement that someone asked about
several weeks ago. We'll post it on the job page too, but wanted all who
are interested to see it here. This is an opportunity to forge a career in
wildland fire fighting. Ab.
For all those seasonals out there who are looking for a 13/13 with the FS
or a WAE with the BLM....
The following job announcement is listed on USAJOBS located at http://www.usajobs.opm.gov
WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM
Position: Student Trainee - Range or Forestry Technician
Series/Grade: GS-0499-04/05 Full Performance: GS-0455/0462-05
Announcement: BLM/FA-03-60
Closes: 09/30/03
Duty Location: Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New
Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Wyoming
This position is: Open to all qualified persons
Web Address: http://jsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/summary.asp?OPMControl=IO5938 |
| 06/26 |
JerseyBoy's law
Strikes me as just another blow against those of us who believe that
people living in the “Stupid zone” (great term, Mollysboy…can we
inaugurate that into the jargon page?) should fry, I mean pay for their
lack of foresight. I was driving through a community not far from my home
this past weekend and noticed a four-story, probably million-dollar “cabin”
with a cedar shake roof completely surrounded by very dense second-growth,
unthinned forest and backed up to unthinned forest service land completely
choked with 2-3 foot deep dead-and-down. This “cabin” had trees built
into it so that there was actually canopy under its eaves and growing up
through its deck. Then I was told that the home owners had refused the
municipal thinning crews’ offer to thin their land FREE OF CHARGE on the
basis that it would damage their privacy. And so if their home burns, this
would somehow be the Fed’s fault? I mean, shouldn’t there be a clause
in there about gross negligence?
Nerd on the Fireline
Nerd, the term Stupid Zone came from Ed Quillen in some articles that
vfd cap'n linked us to some months ago. If you haven't read the articles
they were good. Once again, here are the links from vfd cap'n's 4/11/03
post, worth a read:
The articles by Denver Post columnist Ed Quillen from
1998 ( www.custerguide.com/quillen/eqcols/19985313.htm
),
2001 ( www.custerguide.com/quillen/eqcols/20018074.htm
) and
2002 ( www.fs.fed.us/rm/main/pa/newsclips/02_05/0526_stupid.html
). |
| 06/26 |
Waiting Patiently,
This last Monday, they did their "all GACCs" test. It was not
good. They shut it down after a while. The problem is mainly the pipeline
according to those in the know. That's why the hour of death. IA is going
to be the problem. To many people on the system trying to get their data
out at the same time on a nationwide basis. Someone said MIRPS on it worst
day ever (not many of those anymore) was never this bad. Other problem:
everyone is going to see is so many layers. This was not supposed to
happen. It was going to take the best of MIRPS and streamline the product,
but leave government to it best and what do we get?
Again product is not the problem right now, it is too small an internet
connection. May have to place servers at all GACC's with T3' to speed up
process as a start.
Keestrokes |
| 06/26 |
Abercrombie,
Please find attached photo of - OLINDA HOTSHOTS 2003 (Victoria,
Australia), for inclusion in your fire crew photos.
Wol Worrell
Wildfire Management Officer
Dandenong Ranges National Park
Victoria, Australia
Fresh faces and some nice equipment, too, I cropped the dozer on the
thumbnail but left the photo complete on the larger version. I put the
photo on the Handcrews
9 photo page.
Readers, if you haven't had the pleasure, try our new dropdown photo menu
in its new location at the top of the page. Original Ab revamped the menu
because the old one was getting too unwieldy. Thanks Orig Ab. Ab. |
| 06/26 |
Hello,
I've been lurking and seeing the discussion on firefighter death benefits.
I'd suggest the family get a copy of the training course "Taking Care
of Our Own: A Guide for Preparing for Line of Duty Death". This is an
excellent course put on by the Bureau of Justice Assistance, and the
National Fallen Firefighters Foundation.
A careful review might provide definitions regarding the
"employee" status of ADs, and specific reference to the
application of benefits to ADs.
I don't know that this will resolve the issue......but it might provide
the family some information to argue their case.
Please sign me:
Concerned |
| 06/26 |
Anyone know anything about ROSS crashing or having a meltdown in the SW
over the weekend? I have heard several stories but the people at the GACCs
are holding to the party line that ROSS is great and this is no big deal.
Their words say one thing but their voices tend to not tell the same
story.
IMHO, ROSS was released too early with lots of bugs and way too slow. I
wonder if any one could calculate how much money it is costing the
government for a dispatcher to sit and watch the "dancing black
bar?"
Waiting Patiently |
| 06/26 |
Hey gang,
Just wanted to say thanks for all those who were able to make it out to
Whiteriver AZ for Rick Lupe's funeral yesterday. Very good representation
from all the fire management folks from the different entities and from
Larry Humphrey's Team. Let us not forget the ones we have lost over the
years and remember that safety starts with you.
the southwest is still the hot bed of activity. Things are starting to
slow down a 'bit', but the next 10 day outlook on weather/fire danger is
looking like more potential for large scale fire activity. Bring your
"boonie" hats and sun screen you come out for a 14 day visit,
it's hot and dry!
AZ Trailblazer |
| 06/26 |
Wolf Mountain/ Grass Valley CA lookout:
morning abes,
nice job at the top of the page with the links, jeeze, it just keeps
getting better !!!
is wolf mountain lookout in nevada county, calif. in service this year,
or was it a victim of the lookout closures?
i've not heard them in morning line up this year at all. or did they go
to another frequency other than "local" ?
donna, dozer support |
| 06/25 |
MOL
This is what we're hearing at CDF re the Riverside ECC via the IAP and
with regard to the HVAC (Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning see HVAC)
system:
Continual problems with the Perris ECC HVAC have created the need to close
the CDF/Riverside County Fire primary ECC and coordinate staffing of both
alternated ECCs until repairs are completed and the system is running
consistently without fail.
The major problems/concerns are to maintain staffing levels and means to
continue providing the high level of dispatch services to the Citizens and
Contracts in Riverside County. Staffing shortages are a concern as
dispatch and administrative staff have had days off cancelled and are
working 12+ hour shifts and working in alternate sites in support of the
HVAC repair project in the primary dispatch center.
Yesterday it was reported that the contracted HVAC repair crew has been on
scene at the Perris Command Center since the start of the incident on
6/19/03 and are continuing their repair work. The staffing levels will
remain in effect for the next 5 to 7 days. Fire primary ECC will
coordinate staffing of both alternated Emergency Command Centers until
repairs are completed and the HVAC system is running consistently without
fail.
CDF ECC |
| 06/25 |
emt_micah,
Thanks for the offer to instruct. One neat thing about the summit was the
attempt to open up dialogue and establish trust between the groups with
different perspectives. The speeches from the governors and Gale Norton,
along with the consensus recommendations, are on-line at www.westgov.org/wga/meetings/forest_health_summit.htm.
Oregon Gov. Kulongoski's gave the best speech, IMHO.
It's funny that just about everybody advocates local input and
collaborative for solving the wildfire problem, but OMB can dictate from
Washington that 850,000 jobs will go to the private sector. As Kulongoski
said:
"Again, we have to find a balance. We have to find policies that do
the most good and least harm. This is more difficult than choosing one
value and drawing a line in the sand against anything and everything
that compromises that value."
Privatization seems to be a line in the sand. For the sake of ideology,
the White House seems prepared to dismantle the land use agencies.
Oh, and just for the record, I don't recall posting to TheySaid about the
packtest. I do now, however, regret that I didn't press Bosworth about the
cement mixer idea when I had the chance -- on second thought, maybe it's
best that I didn't.
vfd cap'n
HAW, HAW. Ab. |
| 06/25 |
MB
The columns you saw from your airplane could have been some others than
the Helen 2 and the Aspen. Check the ones listed here
www.dailystar.com
or here:
www.nifc.gov/fireinfo/nfn.html
;D
Todd in AZ
PS Aspen Fire Progression Map on Humphrey's
IIMT site. Click on the small version to get the big one. |
| 06/25 |
Dana,
You've hit the nail on the head. Alan Wyatt's case (currently being
appealed to the U.S. Dept. of Justice with the support of Rep. Greg
Walden) is considered by many to be a sentinel case - a case which could
set precedent for Hazard Tree Fallers working on fires...and thereby could
affect the death benefits of others currently disqualified under the
agencies' contemporary definition of "firefighter." Where is the
line drawn? When is a person a firefighter and when are they "support
services"? We argue that when you put a yellow fire shirt on and cut
burning hazard snags, that pretty much qualifies as fighting fire.
Shining a glaring light on one loophole at a time does have an effect. Too
often, the status quo looms so big, sluggish and non-responsive it seems
futile to fight against it. After working as a reporter for 15 years -
most of that covering the Forest Service - I know change happens. Most
times it's not welcome or comfortable. I've been screamed at in the
hallowed halls of Forest Service SOs many times for "causing
trouble." But persistence is effective. Silence is NEVER acceptable
when there are honest, hard working people being treated unfairly.
Fire Momma |
| 06/25 |
Book Ratings and Reviews: I’ve been meaning to do this for along time
now so….
Fire
on the mountain
This book did a very good job of explaining to me what happened on the
South Canyon fire in 1994. The book has its critics regarding some of the
author’s conclusions but it has helped me put the lessons learned in
perspective and identify with the incident. Once I started reading it I
couldn’t put it down. I highly recommend it to anyone in the wildland
fire field. 4 Chainsaws
Fire
on the rim
I really enjoyed this book and identified with many of the situations
described. It follows the author on a fictional season of firefighting
based on his 15 years at the Grand Canyon. I would highly recommend this
book to anyone considering working for a Federal wildland agency to give
them some idea of what the job is about and how its different from working
for a city fire department. 4 Chainsaws.
Fireline:
Summer battles of the west
Another book I recommend to people looking to work in wildland fire. Great
photography and the author did his homework when researching the book. It
is a very good description of wildland firefighters. I wound up using it
to help answer some of my parents questions about what my job was. 4
Chainsaws.
Hotshot
This is sort of a memoir of a hotshot. I found this book annoying and
enjoyable at the same time. I identified with many of the situations but
the “Hotshot attitude” comes through very strongly. This is another
book on my recommended reading list for those seeking work in wildland
fire. 3 Chainsaws.
Young
men and fire
This book investigates the deaths of 13 firefighters on the 1949 Mann
Gulch fire which had a large impact on the way wildland fires are fought.
The book is written in an unusual style and is almost the same story
written 3 times from different perspectives, from the point of the author
who lived in the area during the fire, from the point of view of the
author as an investigator many years later and finally written from the
firefighters point of view (based on the investigation and from survivors
interviews). This style did not bother me and I found the book very
interesting but I know many who found it unreadable. 3 Chainsaws.
More coming...
FedFire
Thanks, Fedfire. You do have a glib "tongue". Thanks for
inserting some punctuation too. Haw, haw!
Readers, for a fairly exhaustive list of wildland fire books, visit our
Wildland Fire Books
page which is linked to the Wildland Firefighters Book
Review page. There is also a Child/Youth
Fire Books page and a Child/Youth
Book Review page. Some of these are very nice. We welcome reviews of
the child/youth books if any family members have these.
Please remember that one way you can support costs of running this website
is to order your books (or anything else that Amazon sells) after entering
through our "Amazon Association Portal". We get a small
"commission" from such sales. We Abs order most computer parts,
software, books, etc from Amazon and have never had a problem with their
billing or shipping procedures. They appear to be cost competitive and
quick.
Ab. |
| 06/25 |
Old Fire Guy,
Hazard Tree Fallers are hired as a hybrid between contract (EERA) and AD
(Employee). The EERA contract is for the equipment, i.e. saws, jacks,
truck, 4 wheeler, etc. The faller is picked up AD - usually around the AD5
rate. The system is inherently flawed because the contracting officer's
primary focus is "hiring equipment" and the faller comes along
to operate it -almost peripherally. The equipment gets more scrutiny than
the faller...a bazaar situation considering the skill it takes to fall
hazard snags.
Providing our fallers benefits, as well as a voice and representation with
the federal and state land management agencies in the fire suppression
arena, was one of the primary reasons Northwest Timber Fallers was formed.
With a contract in place, fallers would be hired as employees and deployed
with significant more personal death benefit coverage than they are under
the government's EERA system. But, the price of the faller's contract-hour
reflects that. And that's where the government balked.
It is no surprise fallers have no benefits. They've grown used to that
even when they're on a regular logging job. Like Wyatt's family, the
realization that there is little left in the financial pot for the family,
given the death of the faller, in most cases, the pain and difficulty of
dealing with that reality makes it easy to shove the issue of life
insurance/death benefits aside and not think about...until its too late.
Yes, Alan's family needs our prayers. Just as important, they deserve
those of us who can to demand the system be altered. I've heard it more
times than I can count from the major contractor players in the fire
suppression industry that the Forest Service (or any other federal or
state agency) takes about 25 years to incorporate meaningful change. For
the falling community, that's not good enough. Professional fallers put
their lives on the line just as much as a Hotshot crew member, a jumper,
an engine foreman, or an IC. Playing the game of semantics doesn't cut it.
Being ignored doesn't cut it. It's time to do something about it...which
is what we're trying very hard to do.
Thanks for your thoughts for Wyatt's family.
Fire Momma |
| 06/25 |
Old Fire Guy,
I noticed that you said:
"Seems to me that AD's are "employees", but that
"contractors" are not."
"employees"?
That best sums up what ADs are I guess. They are not employees in that
they have few of the basic benefits that real employees have. At least
contract workers are employees of the contractor...who must by law be
upfront with them about the benefits they have or do not have.
"Employees" such as ADs "employers" may pretty much
avoid any responsibility for failing to provide benefits required by the
Fair Labor Standards Act by declaring them "emergency workers"
whose pay and benefits have been "administratively
determined"...which is what AD stands for.
This provides a cheap labor force for state and federal agencys for use in
"emergency" situations...which are pretty well defined in the
"loophole laws". The MN DNR got in a bit of trouble a few years
back by using "ADs" for non emergency work, .ie gridding for
lost persons/bodies. Although they blustered a bit when caught doing this
they eventually had to provide regular OT pay and employment benefits for
those involved in this non-emergency work. I wonder if the feds made the
same mistake with using ADs for the shuttle debris search effort?
While it may seem like common sense that if you are being paid to fight
fire you are a firefighter...the definition of "firefighter" has
been legislatively determined...and common sense has nothing to do with
that! I wonder if in the "outsourcing" push anyone has
determined how much more it will cost to provide the basic benefits to
these tens of thousands of ADs when they are employed by contractors...or
if a "benefit loophole" will be provided fire contractors to
avoid this extra cost?
Dana
One group that is working to benefit AD Firefighters: The
AD Firefighter Association Check it out. Permanent link to them on the
Classifieds
page. Ab. |
| 06/25 |
AZ Mt Lemmon, wes, Firescribe, and anybody else
I might have missed,
Thanks for the info on the Aspen Fire. I did want to
know about it, I read it and then got very busy. We
evacuated for a while, but all turned out well. We had
a large defensible space. Fire still burns near us and
there was gigantic damage to our community. My
family is now out of danger.
Thanks to those who keep this board going. I have
read here for years but never thought I'd need to write
in.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
And thanks to all of you who risk your lives to save
our homes and forests. (Ab can you accentuate that
last part?)
RO
You're welcome. We try not to risk our lives. Ab. |
| 06/25 |
209 Report tonight (Tues) at 2030 that there's a wind driven brush fire
running through downtown Albuquerque at I-40 - along the Rio Grande. 700
acres were burned at that time, it was 10% contained, 3 miles of line to
build.
Residences, commercial buildings, infrastructure, state park are at risk.
Crowning, running, spotting were observed.
5 engines, 2 dozers and 3 helicopters - 400 people - were working the
wildfire from Forest Service and BIA to City of Albuquerque, City of
Grants, Torrance Co Fire, Office of Emergency Mgmt, NM State Parks and
multiple law enforcement agencies.
300 to 400 people were evacuated. Power was out for about an hour for
16,000 residents.
Within the next 12 hours, an I-40 bridge will be inspected by the NM State
Highway Department for Heat damage. Tomorrow's Forecasted Weather...Wind
Speed: 15-25 mph; Temperature: 93; Wind Direction: W-NW; Relative
Humidity: 9.
Estimated control: 06/29/2003 at 1800.
Fred |
| 06/25 |
From Firescribe:
Reminder that the Southwest area map of large fires is HERE.
Here's an unusual case of interface fire tonight, right in the heart of
Albuquerque NM.
Wildfire
in Downtown Albuquerque and another
Fear,
uncertainty for those evacuated in wake of bosque fire
And in Colorado, SEATS
Single-engine
tankers hit blazes quickly, precisely |
| 06/25 |
Anyone know the situation in ABQ, NM??? Heard there
is a fire on the river basically downtown, Pulled Helicopter
off fires in AZ to go to it, and declared state of emergency
in ABQ???
R-3 Dispatcher |
| 06/25 |
News from Washington, D.C.:
Idaho Congressman Craig and Simpson recently
introduced a bill holding the federal government
liable if fires from federal land damage private
property:
www.house.gov/apps/list/press/id02_simpson/buffer.html
I don't know the chances of this bill, but this raises
an awful lot of questions, especially in light of the
outsourcing movement.
Thoughts anyone?
JerseyBoy
Will never pass. Ab. |
| 06/25 |
VFD Cap'n:
I have to admit that over the past several months you've really raised a
ruckus here on TheySaid. I recall heated discussions about Tankers and
Tenders, packtests and more. Sometimes it has felt as if you were shootin
us Feds in the foot. But I've got to hand it to you, it sounds like you
were our soul voice at the Governors Conference. Thank you for making the
politicians think twice and even back-pedal when confronted with
competitive outsourcing.
Thanks,
emt_micah
BTW: I too was a volunteer for several years before getting a fed job.
I'll come teach at your academy. |
| 06/25 |
Good Morning All,
Home again home again riggety jig... for the moment. The columns from SW
fires are impressive from the air.
I have updated the the Jobs
Page, wildland firefighter Series
462 and Series 455,
also the FF Terms/Jargon/etc page.
Emails are coming in to FamilySaid.
Let your loved ones know about that page. Family supports family there.
I added Arizona Wildfires and New Mexico Wildfires to the current event
options of the Fire News
page. For those of you who don't use the Links
page to the max, you should check it out, especially under News and
Reports for the NIFC Fire News and Maps. The SW News link (GACCS section)
takes you to location and perimeter maps of some of the AZ and NM fires.
Ab. |
| 06/24 |
Anyone know what's going on with the CDF Riverside dispatch center?
MOL |
| 06/24 |
Fire Momma,
A great many fire fighters are considered ineligible for benefits of any
kind due to the loopholes the govt. employers provided for themselves.
Unfortunately the folks that hire/recruit these firefighters are often
unaware of the lack of benefits or simply fail to inform them that they do
not have the normally provided basic benefits nearly every other employee
in the USA takes for granted.
Thousands of firefighters have applied for unemployment benefits and/or
workmens comp only to discover that according to the Feds they were not
technically employed and so are ineligible for benefits even this basic.
If a private business failed to inform job applicants/employees that they
were forfeiting benefits they may have already earned by taking the job
they are being offered, that business would be liable for suit or criminal
charges. But since the employer is the Federal/State Gov.....you guessed
it...they are exempt in the case of "emergency personnel"
/firefighters due to loopholes they have given themselves. Few jobs hold
as many surprises as wildfire suppression...and I suppose no one should be
surprised at this one.
Dana |
| 06/24 |
The Today Show had a good interview with Larry Humphrey. You can watch
the
video free on MSNBC at www.msnbc.com/news/TODAY_Front.asp.
On the
right side they have 8 videos to scroll thru. Right now the interview is
the 2nd one, right after Demi Moore. That's pretty good when an IC rates
up there with movie stars.
Shep
I'd say it's pretty good when Demi Moore rates right up there with
wildland ICs. ;-) Ab. |
| 06/24 |
Re: Firefighter life insurance.
Could someone who knows please clarify? Was Mr. Wyatt hired as an AD
firefighter, or was this a "contract" hire (EERA)?
Seems to me that AD's are "employees", but that
"contractors" are not.
In these days of increasing interest in "outsourcing" that
should be a
critical consideration. Employees have benefits and coverage by their
employer (agency). Contractor employees are covered by their employer (the
contractor).
Prayers for Mr. Wyatt's family.
Old Fire Guy |
| 06/24 |
Firecookie's Line:
Believe it should be Lives, Homes, Forests. In that order. Or at least
that is what we're taught to see.
Bob G. |
| 06/24 |
re: competitive out-sourcing
I went to Missoula, Montana last week to attend the Forest Health Summit
sponsored by the Western Governors' Association. My reason for going was
to promote a non-profit wildland firefighting school I'm starting in
Colorado. In addition to offering single NWCG classes, I hope to start an
engine boss apprenticeship program for volunteer firefighters, that would
go beyond the 310-1 minimum ENGB standard with almost 270 hours of
instruction as required for USFS and BLM engine bosses. The courses would
be taught in 15 weekend sessions over 3 years, with agency mentoring
in-between to aid in lesson comprehension and taskbook completion.
Anyway, my reason for going to Missoula was to sell this idea. Most of the
other 400 attendees were agency folks from D.C. or regional offices, a
strong showing from the logging industry and a fair representation of
environmental groups. There was much agreement that our forests are in bad
shape and less consensus about how to fix the problem.
Because the meeting agenda was slanted toward a particular outcome, the
Bush plan was often touted as the best way - our forests will be safer and
healthier with less environmental review, fewer lawsuits, and more
commercial logging to thin the forests both near the interface and in the
backcountry.
I frequently heard the comment that heavy logging must be allowed soon
before more lumber mills shut down. People cited Arizona, New Mexico and
Colorado as places where so few mills are left in operation that the
infrastructure doesn't exist for much logging to resume.
I participated in the breakout session on improving wildfire suppression
and prevention. The session included about an hour of comments from
panelists including Jerry Williams, USFS director of fire and aviation,
and Mike Wheelock, owner of Grayback Forestry.
For the remaining hour, some 40 participants were allowed to offer their
recommendations to be given the Governors. Airtime was extremely limited,
with those who chose to speak only getting a few minutes. While I was
waiting to be called upon, I set aside my notes about the need to train
volunteer firefighters to play a more meaningful role.
It had dawned on me that I had heard almost nothing the previous 2 days
about competitive out-sourcing. I was less articulate than I had hoped to
be. Yet, I said that I couldn't see how the ideas floating around (i.e.
National Fire Plan, Implementation Strategy, the summit recommendations,
etc. ) to solve the wildfire problem could be enacted while agency
personnel were busy conducting studies to see if their jobs would be
privatized. Like with the lumber mills, we risk losing the infrastructure
of the agencies when we need it most.
When I finished, someone at the back of the room added, "Amen."
Still, the issue just about didn't make the list of 5 final
recommendations, until a BLM state director said they were overlooking
what I had mentioned. In the end, it was listed as: "Look critically
at fire workforce management -- out-sourcing and regulatory issues."
I was still fired up a while later, when the governors were concluding a
video conference with a Montana senator and asked if the audience had a
question or two to ask. Nobody else did, so I raised my hand.
I first tried to pose the question to Montana's Gov. Judy Martz, but I
stumbled on the wording so she had me come up to the microphone and
camera. It came out something like, "Mr. Senator, I was wondering
with all we're talking about here at the conference about improving forest
health, how can agency employees get this work done while they're studying
their jobs for competitive outsourcing?"
It must have thrown him off balance, because his first response was to
ask, "Now, just who is this person?" Both Martz and Idaho's Gov.
Kempthorne smiled and nodded in encouragement when I responded that I was
just a volunteer firefighter. The senator back-peddled quite a bit before
suggesting that I find USFS Chief Dale Bosworth at the conference and ask
him the question, because he would probably be more knowledgeable about
the subject. When I did ask Bosworth about it later, he only said that
outsourcing is getting a lot of attention in the agencies.
I guess I still don't have the answers. At least I've found my voice to
ask the questions.
vfd cap'n
p.s. Ab, please pass this posting along to Guy Pence, with my apologies
for not having a better understanding earlier. |
| 06/24 |
Nerd - no problem! I occasionally have that same nervous twitch that
hits the "send" button too quickly, and I haven't been able to
find the "recall" button yet!
Mollysboy
I think here we all tend to "excuse" that little reflex.
Sometimes makes life interesting. Ab. |
| 06/24 |
While Flying between Albuquerque and Los Angeles at 28,000 feet today I
saw two columns coming from the Tucson direction. (Must go look at the sit
reports and SW News and Notes, etc and see what else is burning besides
the Alpine and the Helen 2. Made a great grey/brown inversion at quite a
high altitude. I'm pretty sure I was too far west for the fires to be in
NM.
MB |
| 06/24 |
While all attention is on AZ, the Gila NF in NM has also had a couple of
large suppression fires develop very rapidly in the past few days.
The Jenny Fire in the northern Black Range will have a T2 team on it today
after taking a several mile run yesterday. Burnout operations were
commenced
ahead of the fire to protect private property. The fire was upwards of
1000
acres late yesterday.
The Seco Fire in the central Black Range (near Reed's Peak) blew up
yesterday
going out in all directions, particularly towards the east. Jumpers will
be
put in this morning, winds permitting, to try to check the fire spread at
the
crest. Other management actions will be discussed today. This fire is at
least several thousand acres in size and with Red Flag conditions today
will
likely go much larger.
The Dry Lakes and Moonshine WFU fires have become very active and both
have
and will require holding actions to keep them within the maximum
manageable
area. Total size of these two fires in the Gila Wilderness is about 30,000
acres.
NMAirBear |
| 06/24 |
Dear Ab,
This just in... "Family Fights for Tree Fallers' Death
Benefits"...written by Travis Seibert of the Denver Post (Denver West
Section 2B, published today. Seems Hazard Tree Fallers are not considered
firefighters, but "support resources" and Professional Timber
Faller Alan Wyatt, who was killed last year FIGHTING FIRE on the
Missionary Ridge fire in Colorado, doesn't qualify for firefighter death
benefits. For all those who have a question about whether Hazard Tree
Fallers are firefighters, check out Abs' photo gallery - Crews 8, where
you will see fire clothing clad fallers cutting down extremely large
BURNING TREES. These photos have been sent to Rep. Greg Walden's office to
support his fight for Wyatt's death benefits for his family - who
certainly believe their husband/father/son died fighting fire.
Unfortunately, the Dept. of Justice just doesn't believe it yet. Suppose
Alan's coroner's examination should have included checking for ash under
his finger nails too?
Also, after the R6 Forest Service pulled up short from awarding the Hazard
Tree Faller contracts for 2003, all contract bidders were directed back to
their home forests to attain/update their Faller EERA. Hey! You can even
apply for your EERA online now and you don't even have to look the
contracting officer in the eye! How easy is that?! Problem is, even
fallers who are actually QUALIFIED as a hazard tree faller will have
difficulty getting an EERA from the Siskiyou, Rogue River or Umpqua
forests. Seems the one contracting officer (the one and only....) assigned
to process EERAs on this tri-forest area will be gone for three
weeks...Where to?? one might ask ...when her job is far from complete?
Well, we'll be checking around the Arizona fire camps in procurement to
find her. As if there aren't enough agency procurement personnel to go
around in that region? Give us a break!
It's time hazard tree fallers were given the respect other firefighters
are awarded. Its hard, dangerous work. We all need to look out after one
another.
Fire Momma |
| 06/24 |
Hi,
Just curious to see whether they have filled the roster for the new all
indian hot shot crew in san diego, Sycaun was the site I believe, and the
announcement went out under BOR.
Please let me know
thanks, Nancy |
| 06/24 |
Ab Note:
An e-mail came in that indicates that the pipe bomb incident has been
broadcast far and wide. The memo sent out by the CA OES had pictures
attached. It is a pdf file. If anyone is interested, please e-mail and I
will forward it to you after tomorrow. Ab is on the road now and unable to
post the photos or reformat the message at this time.
The jobs pages will be updated on Wednesday.
Be safe all. |
| 06/24 |
Apology to Mollysboy:
On re-reading your post, Mollysboy, I get your sarcasm…but you had me
seriously scared for a bit. Sorry I snapped back so hard…
Nerd on the Fireline |
| 06/24 |
Not to toot our own horn... but we have some good pictures and
information on the Aspen Fire.
Just thought you guys might be interested....
www.azfamily.com |
| 06/24 |
oh well sorry you feel that way, but if you were counting, most hotshot
crews are at home, about 1/2 are there, so i guess that goes to show you
are not as up to date, as far as the weather goes, at least as a
contractor i try to save homes if mother nature blows too severe no force
on earth can stop it but if the resources are there when they can help,
let let them try instead of being so conscious of funds. instead of lives
i wish no lives lost but have gone to many funerals of forest service
employees who should have know better.
fire/rescue |
| 06/24 |
Regardless of weather you are a Fed Firefighter, or a private
contractor, You
all have the same goal ahead of you. Save the Forest, Save Lives, Save
Homes. It's sad to see so many with the same ideas and goals arguing over
juvenile BS. So stop pointing fingers and do the job. Nuff said.
Ab keep up the great work,
just sign me
Firecookie |
| 06/24 |
Mollysboy,
I was appalled by your last post…most of my training is in rescue, and
the very first thing I was taught was that no rescue, no property damage,
no other life was worth losing the life of a rescuer for. That goes double
in fire, and triple in wildland fire; no stretch of forest or uninhabited
home is worth a firefighter’s life. “Be Prepared to die up there if
that’s what it takes”? If a supe said that to me, I’d walk off the
line and take the first greyhound home, damn the consequences. We risk our
lives, yes. Even in “safe” situations, a fire can blow up and take a
firefighter, even a firefighter who is providing for safety first. (Don’t
dishonor the memory of Rick Lupe!)
Please don’t advocate putting engines or anyone else into unnecessarily
dangerous situations. I love my crewmates like brothers, and I’d hate to
lose one of them ‘cuz some supe had your attitude and decided to stick
us someplace where we didn’t belong just so’s he could “stick it to
the Feds”.
LCES, everybody,
Nerd on the Fireline
P.S. I’m totally in favor of people who build in the “Stupid Zone”,
especially people who build against the advice of their local fire
protection agency, getting exactly what’s coming to them. That includes
the property owner getting to sit there watching the firefighters watching
their house burn ‘cuz it ain’t safe to try putting the thing out. |
| 06/24 |
BendBulletin.com
these crews in route to aspen fire from oregon
doc |
| 06/24 |
If you ever felt like writing a letter after work, this might be the
time.
Legislation would put a lid on job competitions at Interior, Forest
Service
www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0603/062003p1.htm
The Anti-Outsource |
| 06/23 |
Re: Contract Engines on the Arizona Fires.
So, are we losing homes because we don't have enough engines.....or, just
maybe 'cause ole Ma Nature is kicking our collective butts, and no number
of engines will really make a difference?
Maybe we need to get that rural Fire Chief from Trunbull, CO into the
action: last year, he was quoted as telling a Strike Team of Engines that
they "need to be ready to die up there if that's what it
takes.....".
Maybe we can put the Contract Engines into spots that the
fuels/weather/topography and experience/training say that we shouldn't
be?? Super Engine Contractor: able to overcome Mother Nature where Feds
fear to tread!!
Maybe NCBrush6 should ponder what a WONDERFUL day it will be when people
who build structures in the "Stupid Zone" are held accountable
for their actions, and the rest of us US Taxpayers aren't expected to bail
their ignorant butts out of trouble with our $$, and by putting
firefighters lives at risk!
Just one person's opinion, who's seen this scenario played out too many
times over the past few decades!
Mollysboy |
| 06/23 |
r-6 fire/rescue,
Your comments are comical. What are you going to do when you get there
that is not already being done? There are thousands of of folks there
right now doing what they can, and almost every IHC Hotshot crew in the
nation.
It doesn't matter how many people are there, when the wind blows like it
has NO-ONE will stop or slow it down, but you probably already know that
since you are one of the elite contractors from R-6.
As far as your comments about us Federal Folks getting " bit in the
ass" because you're not there, who's being self-centered? I know on
the Forest that I work on, we don't wish that misfortune on anyone. That
is the difference between you and me.
An-R5er |
| 06/23 |
Hey Ab.
Its been awhile since I have posted here.
I am wondering why no one has come in here and posted info on the pipe
bomb that exploded near the origin of a roadside set out in California. (I
believe I heard it was up on the Plumas.) Anyways, I was just wondering if
I was the only one that heard about it. This is serious business. If there
is in fact some whacko out there setting a secondary device intended to
kill or maim firefighters in a wildland setting, we are in trouble. This
is the kind of thing you might expect at a "traditional large scale
terrorist event" but hard to anticipate while you're trying to catch
a typical roadside set veg fire. I guess we all need to keep this sort of
thing in the backs of our mind now and hope it doesnt become a habit.
XR5 Hotshot |
| 06/22 |
While talking with the local hotshot sup a while back, I asked him
his thoughts on the absence of candy bars/jerky/nutrition bars/etc in
fire camps. He sez, "oh, you mean lickies and chewies"?
So there you have it.
Lickies & Chewies: supplemental/snack/quick energy food products
offered in large fire camps from the mid-80's through 2002. A source of
heated debate among top level administrators without fireline experience
in the winter of 2002/2003. Identified as a major cause of large fire
costs and targeted for elimination.
ecc1 |
| 06/22 |
Last Tree Standing and the Raven
Concerning contract engines and crews. Like always, closest forces are
ALWAYS the first to go to an incident. Then agency folks. Sorry that is
just the way it is, it also the most cost effective at this point. Since
the AZ fires are the only real show in the nation right now, there is no
lack of resources. That is why contactors are not in high demand right
now.
Where I am dispatching right now, the rotation for engines is as follows:
Agency, State, Cooperators, neighboring centers, national contract
engines, then contract engines. So far in all the years they have
contracted equipment, this center has never had to go past the national
contact when they have needed engines.
R-3 Dispatcher |
| 06/22 |
Well we all ask the same thing.. in time they will call.. if they dont
it will be a sad day when homes burn due to the powers that be...
i do know that a state rep is burning mad that pvt engines are not
being used.. in time it will come out that land and homes burn due
to a agency trying to prove their worth......... ncbrush6 |
| 06/22 |
Ab,
Kudos to you again this year on your fantastic site- it just keeps gettin'
better. Your hard work is enjoyed by thousands- say again how many
unique visitors you have per month? Must be 95%+ lurkers.
For RO and others, a good portal for US fire maps and satellite images
is:
www.fs.fed.us/eng/rsac/fire_maps.html
FF's Dad
Nice website. Ab. |
| 06/22 |
RO
Check out www.azstarnet.com for
some maps (and other info)
showing the Aspen fire perimeter.
wes
With only a 56 K modem available tonight, this takes forrrrreeeverrrrr
to load. And then you have to click on maps and the slideshow page took 4
minutes to load! Once loaded, there are good perimeter maps there. Ab. |
| 06/22 |
contract:
its surprising to see that with all the loses there, the government is
being so
self-centered in their plans. i hope the get bit in the ass.
r-6 fire/rescue |
| 06/22 |
Hi Folks,
We've been watching the daily sit. report and GACC reports ( like the rest
of you) and have noticed that very few if any contract engines are
working. What's up with this? Are private contract crews working or are
they getting the run around also? How about the National Engine and Crew
contractors- any work yet?
The private sector has spent millions of dollars to comply with contract
requirements and it would be a shame if they were being shut-out by the
Powers That Control.
Rumor has it that there is a going to be an Agency Only push. Is this the
Government reaction to Outsourcing
?
Last Tree Standing and the Raven |
| 06/22 |
From Firescribe:
Arizona Forest Fire Destroys More Homes
http://abclocal.go.com
Airtankers Save Homes
www.azstarnet.com
More on Fire News via button at top of page. Ab. |
| 06/22 |
Thank you AZ - Mt Lemmon. I live just north of Tucson. We see
the flames at night, the huge smoke cloud by day. I wish the website
for the fire would be posted so we could see perimeter maps and
news releases. We thank all the firefighters for working so hard for
us.
RO |
| 06/22 |
Yo Ab(s)!
One of these might not be appropriate for your list, but here goes:
Test*cle - as in "Getting rather Test*cle" i.e. Testy, i.e.
"Teste".
So how does this fit into an acronym for CDF -Schedule B? (It helps
to know that the "B" stands for CDF's "Schedule B"
which is the wildland fire part of the organization). One of my Inmate
Firefighters was in that "T word" condition one night swearing
and muttering, and I asked him what the problem was. He replied "Jeez
Cap, you got us Crawling through this this Dam'
F*%@@# brush!. In one of my rare moments of wit it
occurred to me that that was the acronym for US! CDF - Schedule B.
Probably too lengthy for your list. But if you're as good an editor as I
think you are, it might work.....
I like this one: "Goathead", which the constant radio response
"Go ahead" occasionally devolves into.
CDFMike from Arroyo Grande |
| 06/21 |
RO,
As of 6PM, the Aspen Fire on Mt Lemmon was 7,534 acres. Since it's burning
hot and fast in very rugged terrain, it will be very difficult if not
impossible to contain. Fire conditions are extreme at times with HUGE
flame lengths. We may just have to herd it around by building containment
lines at a distance when we can and pulling even further far back for
safety sake at times. Natural safety zones don't exist with fire and
terrain like this. On the north side today the fire put up a humdinger of
a good column as it burned in the chaparral, manzanita, and brushy fuels.
891 people are working on the fire including 22 hotshot crews, 6 type 2
crews, 7 helicopters, 22 engines, and about 220 overhead, led by
Humphrey's team.
Over the next 12-24 hours they're predicting continued threat to some of
the remaining homes in the Summerhaven, Loma Linda, and Syke area. Intense
fire runs may threaten the observatory at Mt. Lemmon and there is a
continued threat to Bear Wallow.
Yesterday evening, the fire made a run at Syke knob and entered the Lower
Soldier area of houses. While 9 structures were probably lost in Lower
Soldier, many more were saved by the preparations firefighters made over
the last two days. While two towers were heavily damaged on Radio Ridge,
east of the observatory, several more towers were protected because
firefighters cleared brush and installed sprinklers. FEMA and local govt
are supposed to come in to begin assessment of losses tomorrow when hazard
trees are removed.
Is this the fire you wanted to know about?
AZ - Mt Lemmon |
| 06/21 |
Do you have information on the fires in Arizona? Last year you had a
list of fires. Are you doing that this year? I hope so.
RO
Yes we will be doing our Current
Fires on the Web '03 but there are not many fires with their own web
pages yet. I'll put that link at the top of this forum soon. Of course,
you can check in here to see what firefighters are talking about.
You can also visit the Fire
News page and click on different topics. This is a great search option
from google and we've configured the search to optimize finding pertinent
recent info on the topics. Click on wildland fire or wildfire for the most
recent articles on the web. There is a fine long list of articles with the
newest being only 17 minutes old.
You can also go to the Links
page and scroll down to NIFC Fire News or to the GACCs listing of fire
information - Situation Report (Sit) or News if it's available. The
Southwest has a good website for fire information in your area. Nice
southwest area map of large fires, too. Ab. |
| 06/21 |
Update on the Aspen Fire near Tucson:
www.tucsoncitizen.com
Firescribe |
| 06/21 |
Ab, < been reading occasionally, and when I did there is sooo much to
absorb I felt hardpressed to comment.
GOATS FOR FUEL REDUCTION: the dudes in the Bizzerkly hills
"deployed" goats expensively - after the rager took out so many
big fancy houses in the mid-90s. (near where I live now, Bureau of
Reclamation uses them along river banks)
LADIES LEFT: huh? what about mixed gender ground pounders or the old days'
spikes, aka coyote assignments back when a 21 was normal?
Message to the CDFers: state budget will not cut FIRE response $$$ sanity
isn't the factor, CA legislators' egos won't allow it! although you might
get an IOU instead of a pay check while elected officials collect per diem
for showing up for some boondoggle, again it's high time the urban
interface home owners get a clue about geography & weather!!!
To those kids who want to become FFs, there have been many posts to help
you on your way to realizing your goal - keep asking questions, and hone
your skills. best wishes to you.
To all: keep the sayings coming, it's great to remember the old ones and
see some new ones; some are regional or from a different era but always
worth a chuckle. (there are a few I'm still waiting to see someday I might
add to the mix)
THE DRAGON IS ON THE PROWL, SO BE SAFE OUT THERE!
Ab, this site has come a long way baby...... congrats! you done good.
Northzone5 |
| 06/20 |
From Firescribe:
Fires near
Tucson AZ, Mt Lemmon, burns 250+ homes. Humphrey's team is on it.
Check the News page
under wildfire for many articles on the AZ fires. Ab. |
| 06/20 |
The report from late yesterday on the Aspen Fire near Tucson AZ:
The fire became extremely active towards noon as red flag conditions
developed with winds in excess of 25 MPH and very low relative humidity.
Winds pushed intense upslope fire runs with flame lengths in excess of 200
ft. Extreme fire behavior, torching, and spotting over 1/4 mile were
observed. The fire area continues to expanded significantly.
Yesterday the wind driven fire jumped the line. Wind driven fire jumped
the line. Steep terrain and fire conditions call for Type 1 Crews. Glad to
see they're pulling crews off when it's just too dangerous. I hate to say
it, but most of the residences are not defensible.
There are red flag warnings up again again today. Wind Speed expected to
be 17-27 mph and from the WW. Temp predicted to be 78 and RH 15.
Another fire the Helen 2 burning east of Tucson in the Saguaro National
Park, East.
Be safe all,
R3 F/F |
| 06/20 |
Ab,
Once again Arizona is becoming the hotspot for wildfires. Aspen Fire on
Mount Lemon destroyed 100 plus homes yesterday. The drought stressed fuels
are really making things bad. Even the fuels in the lower desert regions
along the Colorado River (Hay Fire and River Fire (Laughlin, NV) are
burning hot. Lower Desert Temps are back above 100 during the day and we
had 15% RH on the River Fire at 2300 hours and we were with 1 mile of the
Colorado River.
Stay safe.
Desert Firefighter |
| 06/20 |
Outsourcer, you reminded me of a few more:
Hotshot Hacky Sack: Ten pushups every time the hack touches the ground,
gets caught, or somebody swears. One sadist on our mixed
wildland/structure crew suggested playing this in bunkers.
Ladies Left: When there ain’t no blue room handy and you’ve got a
mixed engine crew, ladies on the left side of the engine, gentlemen to the
right.
Pongee: When you’re doing a first pass line clearing with a machete or
brush hook and it leaves those thumb-thick sticks cut off at an angle,
about six inches off the ground…you get those ona sidehill and they’re
just sucking chest wounds waiting to happen.
Sidehilling: Following a contour around a hill, usually on a steep slope.
P.S. Everybody seems to have a favorite handtool…I’m interested in
what everybody’s preference is, and what people recommend and don’t
recommend in terms of tool customizations (mini-Moes, rhinos, super-pukes,
good or bad?)
Nerd on the Fireline |
| 06/19 |
May as well put a couple more up for your consternation, and addition to
the lingo list.
Helitack's LCES=Locate Cooler Establish Shade
Shuddering S- - - House=Helicopter
Gill-Poke= Bent over sapling that can spring on unsuspecting Ground
Pounders
Bell-Worm= A hot deep stump hole
FOOL= Food Unit Leader (FDUL)
Puma, The Eagle has Landed= Code words for Overhead passing through your
work area.
Westside/Wetside=Coast Ranges of Washington, Oregon and Northern
California.
Westsider/Wetsider= Someone who lives in above geographical areas.
Takin' a Rocket Ride= Going to the Blue Room.
Goin' into the Green=What you do when there is no Blue Room.
Hand Held=Portable Radio.
HT=Handy Talky (old term for the Portable Radio) see also Hand Held.
Brain Bucket=Hardhat.
14 Days= Current P.C. tour of duty for Wildland Firefighters.
21 Days= What we worked before the 14 | |
