Vehicle carrying hotshot crew and RV collide

Tahoe Terrie

I just heard about the Hotshot crew that was in the accident this morning coming off the Davenport fire.
My condolences to the family of the RV'er that was killed. Our prayers are with them. Hopes and
prayers are also with the rest of those that were involved, may their injuries be minimum and recovery
speedy.

ember and co-worker

"those of us stuck way up here in the nowhere'sville part of North Zone are
just stuck here until something happens in our neck of the woods" "Not only
is this breaking my bank account, I'm thinking that it's going to cause some
serious problems as far as retention & turnover for the crews in North Zone"

Reality check.
There are many contractors, crews and equipment, just over the border who
did not make a dime last year and nothing so far this year. When we are
sitting here maintaining our 2 million dollar insurance, equipment, crews,
training, truck inspections, licenses, medical cards, drug screenings, and
the list goes on, all of which is mandated, the feds do not pay us a dime.
We are relegated to just one forest and will not be dispatched to adjacent
forests until all of their resources have been dispatched. We like to eat
also. You on the other hand have a predictable paycheck and benefits that
just keep rolling on in. You have it good and just don't know it. If you
want to see just how tough it can be, try the private sector where
advancement only comes with skills upgrades and performance, not seniority
or screwing up.
Enough of my rant but this just pushed me over the edge.
Siskiyou

Hey folks - check out the list. For such a good cause, this page ought to
be flooded.

Remember, with over 25,000 of us alive and kicking during the summer months
of battle, it's these members of the 52 club who are going to help YOU when
and if something goes wrong. Let's grow this list. With only 192 people,
WE CAN DO MUCH BETTER. Please Help.

Friend of the 52's

Everyone, We do need to work on Wildland Firefighter Foundation donations. Think of it this way...

So far this program has netted $ 9,932 (today there are 191 members at $52 apiece). I know some have sent in more, but let's figure the "income" this way, using the "power of one" numbers...

OK how about "expenses"? When someone dies or is injured, how much money does the most rapid Wildland Firefighter Foundation response require? Well, I have heard that family members are often flown to the site, and motel, car rental, etc may be arranged. There's also $$ (often $2,500) for family members' immediate expenses to tide them over until insurance payments kick in... with injuries, some funds may be needed to fly the injured firefighter home on a plane with medical capabilities... Statues are another large expense and 14 just went out to the families of the Storm King fallen.

So our 52 Club with less than $10,000 so far, at most will help 3 or 4 wildland firefighters this year (or just about cover the statues that were shipped out). Unfortunately if history is our guide, it's not enough. We need to do better. Ideally, we need to do well enough that our director Vicki doesn't dip into her own bank account when the money runs out toward the middle or end of the season (as she's done since 1994 following Storm King!). Ideally, we need to get a cushion so that support for firefighter families is paid out of the fund's interest, not the principal. The Foundation needs to be self-sustaining. I hope that as you receive your first checks this fire season you remember to send some in our Foundation's direction. The Family you help is your own. Our Foundation is a funnel of our support!

Those of you who have been helped, please speak up. I have heard several say that to offer thanks or otherwise publicly endorse the Foundation would possibly be viewed as a conflict of interest by their (federal) employer. I say BS to that! As public citizens you can honestly say you were helped if you were. First Amendment rights! Let's get real here! We need to do better. Please tell your stories! We want to hear them. Tell your friends and family members. Say your thanks here or on the Foundation website. If anyone wants some editorial help, get in touch. The Abs will help you write your story.

We're pleased to see that the number of Organizations that have 75-100% of employees enrolled is growing. 52 Gold Club Firefighters, please suggest to your employers to encourage their employees to join... $52 a year out of the thousands earned is bootlace and incidentals money. Employers, we challenge you to donate some more on top of that. You make lots of money on the back of fire suppression. Please support the fire family. To those who do already, many thanks!!!

Let's make this 52 Club work for ALL our sakes.

Ab.

Lassen          NO-CA-PNF N/A C 6/27 AZ SEZ CNF Nuttall
Plumas          NO-CA-PNF N/A C 6/27 AZ SEZ CNF Nuttall
Idaho Panhandle NR-ID-IPF N/A C 6/27 AZ CWZ TNF Willow
Chief Mountain  NR-MT-BFA N/A C 6/26 NM ABZ N6S La Joya
Bitterroot      NR-MT-BRF N/A C 6/25 NM ABZ CIF Davenport
Helena          NR-MT-HNF N/A C 6/27 AZ CWZ TNF Willow
Lewis & Clark   NR-MT-LCF N/A C 6/27 AZ CWZ TNF Willow
Lolo            NR-MT-LNF N/A C 6/27 AZ CWZ TNF Willow
Bear Paw        NR-MT-RBA N/A C 6/27 AZ CWZ TNF Willow
La Grande       NW-OR-WWF N/A C 6/24 NM LNZ LNF Peppin
Pike            RM-CO-PSF N/A C 6/24 AZ WMZ ASF Bear
Augusta         SA-GA-SHD N/A C 6/27 AZ SEZ CNF Nuttall
Jackson         SA-MS-JAD N/A C 6/27 AZ SEZ CNF Nuttall
Dalton          SO-CA-ANF N/A C 6/22 AZ SEZ CNF Noon
Laguna          SO-CA-CNF N/A C 6/25 NM ABZ CIF Davenport
Sierra          SO-CA-SNF N/A C 6/22 AZ SEZ CNF Noon
Rincon          SO-CA-SQF N/A C 6/26 AZ CWZ TNF Willow
Ruby Mountain   WB-NV-EKD N/A C 6/24 AZ SEZ CNF Noon

There's a "Ring of Fire" pin in addition to the purple ribbon pin. There is also a new Ring of Fire pin representing 52 Weeks we Remember. That pin only comes with a 52 Club membership. (We don't have a picture yet.) To join the 52 Club, go to our website at www.wffoundation.org or call our office at (208) 336-2996.

Our office has just moved into a new building (2049 Airport Way, Boise, ID 83705) and we have been without phones and/or internet service for far too long. Our sincerest apologies for any inconvenience.

Burk Minor, Public Relations
Wildland Firefighter Foundation

Ab.

Alaska fires from space

Dana, thanks for the note. Glad you're using your substantial talents and experience for Homeland
Security. Please come back here and visit us from time to time!

Phew, I'm glad the shots are recovering. Any discussion of what to do as lightning approaches. I
remember a Flame 'n Go was killed several years ago in Utah (I think Utah) and we had the discussion.

Be safe all!

Mellie

HOTSHOT FIREFIGHTERS’ NAMES RELEASED

Injured by Lightning Fighting Mt. Graham’s Noon Fire TUCSON, AZ (June 25, 2004)

Coronado National Forest officials have released the names of the Forest Service firefighters injured by lightning while working on the Noon Fire on Mt. Graham yesterday.

Transported to the Mt. Graham Community Hospital in Safford yesterday were Scott Gorman and Jeff Every, both members of the Dalton Interagency Hotshot crew headquartered on the Angeles National Forest in southern California. Two additional firefighters from the same crew, Travis Anway and Brandon Burrill, also were transported later in the day and hospitalized overnight for observation. The most serious of the injuries appeared to be first-degree burns and numbness in the lower extremities. All the firefighters will remain at the hospital in Safford for a minimum of 48 hours under medical observation.

The lightning-caused Noon Fire started on the evening June 22 in rugged terrain in the Pinaleno Mountains (Mt. Graham), about 12 air miles southwest of Safford, Arizona. Five crews of hotshot firefighters were working on the fireline at the 7000’ elevation level when the fast-moving thunderstorm approached. The lightning strike thought to have been responsible for the firefighters’ injuries was probably the first or one of the first strikes. The injured firefighters were on or near a rocky slope at that time, and were likely victims of the electrical current traveling underground rather than a direct hit.

Two hotshot crews are working on the Noon Fire today, patrolling the fireline and conducting mop-up operations

Anybody know of any websites that update the fire situations seven days a week?

firewall

The Thunder Storm must have started 20+ fires all around me. I lost count after a while and DNR got stretched pretty thin along with BIA. Lots of sleepers to watch for today, high winds and more lightning forecasted. A couple burning in the Forested DNR Land I can see from my window still smoking this morning they did not get to last night. I was watching trees crowning in the dark. So I think our Fire Season has finely started up here in full force.

MH

There's a "Ring of Fire" pin from the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. There may be another pin coming out that I don't know about. Someone from the Foundation, could you please clarify? What pin comes with 52 Club membership? Ab.

Try here: www.wildlandfire.com/recipes/recipes.htm Yummmmm. Ab.

Mad River Ranger District in the Six Rivers National Forest needs Detailers:
1 GS-8 Engine Captain;
1 GS-7 Engine Operator, and
2 GS-6 Handcrew Squad Bosses.

Ab.

To those who have sent in engine and air tanker and fire photos recently, I am a bit behind on getting those up. I hope you'll bear with me. Ab.

Thanks, MH

RE: the Washington Post article on Indian firefighters:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001958090_wildfires17.html

Here are some outtakes from the article:

The federal government and western states have, in turn, become extraordinarily dependent on Indians as shock troops to contain forest fires. While Indians make up only about 1 percent of the country's population, they account for about half the firefighters on the front lines of wildfires in the United States, said Dale Glenmore, assistant fire manager in Billings, Mont., for the Rocky Mountain region of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

"It is the high unemployment," Glenmore said. "This is a population you can tap into fairly easily." These (the reservations) are among the poorest places in the United States, with four in 10 residents living below the poverty line and unemployment rarely falling below 40 percent.

Over the past century, firefighting has become a cultural and economic fixture of Indian life, like hunting and fishing. It is not uncommon on many reservations for young mothers and fathers, when the fire call comes, to leave their children with grandparents for the season. Grandparents tend to understand, because they were also firefighters or fire camp attendants.

Native GS-11

This Ab thinks all wildland firefighters need to spend one season on a hotshot crew to become "desensitized".

"The ones I want to hunt down and bludgeon with a dull pulaski are the ones who take credit for your work while don't little or none themselves." and then your statement of "They aren't afraid of the dark, actually they prefer the dark it makes it easier to sneak up on the fire and kill it!"

These statements are pretty troubling to me when it comes to workplace violence and prevention. Past federal employees have been fired for similar statements and others outside of the federal government have been prosecuted for such comments...... I know you didn't mean a threat by this, but realize that sometimes it could come across that way to people on the outside of your thoughts or organizational norms or by others who are just listening and contributing.......

singed... KC ... a full supporter of First Amendment Rights....BUT you still have to be careful that you don't offend or intimidate anyone in the workforce..... especially with bludgeoning.... Bludgeoning is kin to decapitation........

KC

The U.S. Forest Service's national fire plan coordinator told Western governors that the agency was prepared to consider returning a limited number of heavy air tankers to fire lines following a move to ground the aircraft over safety concerns. Corbin Newman, addressing the Western Governors Assn. in Santa Fe, N.M., said the Forest Service had agreed to a plan with federal transportation officials to review proposals from new contractors to fly the tankers. Officials will scrutinize maintenance information, previous inspections and other documents about the aircraft's flying life before considering its return to service, Newman said. (Los Angeles Times, 6/21/04)

www.latimes.com

DOC

"Will comply with all Federal statutes relating to nondiscrimination. These include but are not limited to: (a) Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (P.L. 88-352) which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color or national origin; (b) Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, as amended (20 U.S.C. §§1681- 1683, and 1685-1686), which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex; .....(i) any other nondiscrimination provisions in the specific statute(s) under which application for Federal assistance is being made; and, (j) the requirements of any other nondiscrimination statute(s) which may apply to the application."

I don't understand why folks who collect a federal paycheck (like EH and Startree) seem to think they should be exempt from federal law, or common decency for that matter? Is it because they are "leaders in all things fire" as the saying goes in R5? Or is the good ol' boy system just too firmly entrenched to abide by law?

vfd cap'n

"The Coordination Centers will not accept other Regions supplying AD's for these positions."

Aberdeen

Stay safe!
Kicks

also - Mellie, Thank you (just for being you)!

Drought map
www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

will post more info when its released KSL News: Pilot Crashes, Dies Fighting Wildfire

ScuffyJ

Condolences. Ab.

MSNBC - Wildfires 2004 - What homeowners are doing: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5114140/

Ab will pass the info on.

"If you are twenty and are not a liberal, you don't have a heart. If you are forty and not a conservative, you don't have a brain." Sir Winston Churchill

Ken

CDF does not participate in the WCT, but should. What
is the difference between the SRV, Southwest FFs.
NOTHING, we all deserve a higher degree of medical
screening. Thats just this guy's opinion.

But here is a question I will look into and ask you to
do the same. Of the 22 heart attack fatalities what
percentage from each agency were these? My guess is
State and local crews, are higher than federal, but
thats just a guess.

$$ should not be an issue here. If we could of saved
one of those 22 lives it's worth it to me.

Think Outside the Box

The Southwest FFs are BIA, hence still Federal, I think.

Concerning the fatalities that have occurred taking the Pack Test, there seems to be lots of folks that support full physical exams for everyone that takes the WCT, including a Stress EKG. Lots of folks want Paramedics, ALS, etc at every test site, too. Most of the comments seem top be coming from folks that are Feds with the USFS or USDI.

Another perspective: first, the knowledgeable Medical folks will tell you that for most folks, the physicals are unnecessary if the HSQ is filled out honestly. Also, most Docs will NOT give the Stress EKG except under medically necessary conditions: lots of folks die taking Stress EKG's, even in a Doctor's Office!

And then there is the $$ issue: for Feds, it's not a big item, but there are many wildland firefighters that aren't Feds. Take my home State for example: geographically large, with less than 1,000,000 people in 56 counties. More than 80% of our fire departments are volunteer/rural, and all have wildland suppression responsibilities, as well as working on Interagency fires around the West. We still have "bake sales" to buy equipment, and get our engines from the FEPP surplus program in many cases. Where will the $$ come from to pay for these costly, and may times medically unnecessary, exams and support folks at the WCT test site?

How about the California inmate crews? SRV Farm Laborers? Montana and Southwest Indian firefighters? Contractors? Even State crews? Do they all deserve this level of medical screening, and at what cost?

The WCT is the National Interagency standard for wildfire positions, agreed upon by all the NWCG players. Mandatory Medical screening as is being suggested should go through the same process, with all the cooperating Federal, State, Rural and Volunteers laying out the implications to their agencies/departments.

According to the MTDC study on Wildland firefighter fatalities, 28 heart attack fatalities occurred on wildland fire activities between 1990 - 1998; in the following 5 years (1999 - 2003), another 22 heart attack fatalities occurred, 5 of those from the WCT.

50 fatalities in 14 years: looks like there's a bigger problem than the WCT??

Aberdeen

PS.
Dick Mangan, Thanks for the info on NFPA 1977 Standards for wildland helmets.

Sorry, I missed this last PS first time around. Original Ab and I tipped one too many brewskies this evening and I was distracted by the excellent company. Ab.

S

Thanks, MH

Living on the edge in the wildland urban interface

All DOI employees [I believe] were hooked up to an electrocardiogram
this spring prior to being cleared for duty. The USDA is 1-2 years behind,
but on the same track.

I would love to see paramedics, ALS, and/or an AED at pack test sights.
In the mean time, I will continue to take the pack test, fill out the required
forms, and do the best job on earth.

JSJ

I have noticed that most people who complain about the arduous pack test fall into one of these categories
1. grossly out of shape for the job
2. lazy
3. those who have been told they were not fit to take the test by a doctor
4. those who have failed the pack test [see 1 and 2 for possible reasons]
5. those who feel ENTITLED to their jobs, regardless of fitness

Well, I am none of the above, thank you very much. My post was merely meant to make people think. Your tone/attitude is very much not appreciated. Why don’t you think about the point before attacking the one making it?

Concerned

For the kid wanting to know about heat stress, here's what Sharkey says.

www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm01512817/index.htm (use t-d on any query)

“Sincere condolences to Larry Hoffman’s family.
Another Pack Test death….
Hmmmm….
Heavy air tankers are gone because the program was deemed to be unsafe.
Food for thought.”

I was not aware that the NTSB was looking into the pack test, or that they or anyone else has yet to deem the pack test “unsafe”.

In all seriousness, my condolences to Mr. Hoffman's family.

I have noticed that most people who complain about the arduous pack test fall into one of these categories
1. grossly out of shape for the job
2. lazy
3. those who have been told they were not fit to take the test by a doctor
4. those who have failed the pack test [see 1 and 2 for possible reasons]
5. those who feel ENTITLED to their jobs, regardless of fitness

I sympathize with those who fall into # 3. I know that I will be devastated if a doctor ever tells me I can’t fight fire any more. As for the rest, GET OVER IT! The arduous pack test is the best measure of an individuals ability to do this job. It only takes 45 minutes, once a year, to pass. That gives you the rest of the year to stay in shape for it.

I welcome all debate on this subject. But you better have your ducks in a row.

JSJ

For Fiscal Year 2004 beginning June 1, fifteen (15) Type I and seventeen (17) type II helicopters will be added nationally at mostly USFS exclusive use bases and a few BLM bases nationwide to augment the aerial firefighting resources on hand in the wake of the heavy Air Tanker abatement. The majority of these helicopters will be staffed and managed by exclusive use crews with existing management staff and treated as simply an "exclusive use" contract with the potential for some training within these bases for HCWN and HELB positions. The document also mentions that some HECM single resource positions might be considered if there is any low staffing situations only on a case by case basis.

AC

Ab has just confirmed this.

in my pack that i'll have on the line w/ me, what do I have to buy for my own and what will/should be provided to me?

Don’t count on anything being provided for you. Your FD should get you a fire shelter, but everything else is going to be your problem. Make sure you have at least a gallon’s worth of water bottles, a “comfort care” first aid kit, an MRE, a rain poncho, extra socks, and treats. I like Nalgene water bottles; they’re expensive and over-hyped, but they are truly the only ones I’ve never had trouble with. I recommend the narrow mouth 1-liter style because you can drink out of them while on the road without looking like you’ve got a hole in your lip. The “comfort care kit” is kind of personal…don’t worry about big stuff (splints, etc), but I recommend an ace bandage or vetwrap, an assortment of bandaids, blister stuff (I love Second Skin), med tape, a knife (I like the one-piece neck knife style), a space blanket, extra chapstick, maybe some bug stuff, sunscreen, and a maxi pad or tampons if you’re female (and if you’re male, you could probably sell the aforementioned items for big money or big points in fire camp). The kit should be a bit bigger than your two fists together. Extra socks…spend the money. Good socks pay for themselves many times over. I recommend wool. Treats…power bars, pemmican, make sure it’s something nice. Something durable that you like and look forward to eating, something that brightens up your life when everything is cold and miserable and painful. Makes a huge difference. Oh, and have a cotton sweat shirt or other warm thing (natural fibers or nomex only) with you. Just ‘cuz you’re on a fire doesn’t guarantee it’ll be warm.

I see fuzees are a item to bring, do i just buy any old flares or do i need a special kind?

Pretty much basic flares will work, the longer the better (as long as you can carry them practically). I’ve never heard of a department not providing those.

My dept is pretty much making me get all my gear i need too: I have nomex but its the overcoat/pant type.. will that work or should i actually get the nomex green pants and nomex shirts?

Get the pants and shirts (one set of pants, two shirts). It’ll be a lot more comfortable. Are you looking at initial attack (first 24 hours) or extended attack (two weeks) assignments? Where are you geographically?

Also do i have to have all my personal clothes in a certain bag too since there's the 65 lb weight limit?

Most crews have a standard “red bag” for your EA stuff (tent, clothes, sleeping bag, etc.). You shouldn’t need much: a couple of clean T-shirts, some clean pants, underwear, personal hygiene stuff. I recommend a good paperback, maybe extra treats.

Please enlighten me more so that i wont be so "green".

Hey, I’m pretty green too, compared to most on this site, but everybody was green sometime.

Nerd on the Fireline

#1 what percentage of USFS districts are have trained personnel?

Some of the R5 forests have had ROSS training. A lot more is scheduled during the next 12 months. Most will be after fire season.

#2 ditto for CDF!

Same for CDF folks. Training will be done be ROSS team and will be interagency, just like MIRPS was.

#3 since major ragers in R5 are frequently a combination of federal, state & local gov't agencies' response because of WUI, will the CA OES co-ordinate mutual aid using MIRPS & ROSS?

OES is will be going on line with MIRPS shortly. They will be switching to ROSS like the rest of us.

#4 will CA local gov't continue to request mutual aid resources via their current Operational Area State system (SEMS & RIMS)?

Local area coordinators for fire and rescue do not use SEMS or RIMS to process requests for fires. SEMS and RIMS are used for everything but fire. The local operational areas use Resource Order Cards, expect for the ops areas that are CDF, then they use MIRPS. And all 6 OES regions are on MIRPS now.

#5 most R5 forests abut OR & NV, are those states onboard?

OR and NV will be using ROSS also

keestrokes

CDF Team 8 with Rick Henson as the IC has transitioned to take over management of the fire. 329 personnel are working on the fire with more coming.

So Cal FF

Here is a model of our standard bronze buckle, just picture it in silver and gold. Due to this being a fund raiser in support of Matt who is also a former Union Hotshot we are placing a reserve price of $75.00 as a minimum bid. All proceeds will be placed (in the purchasers name) into Matt's Bank of America donation account #2884010802 to help with his medical expenses and support of his family.

If you wish to bid on the buckle and help Matt Taylor in the fight of his life, contact the Union Hotshots at 541-962-8541, on our cell at 541-786-1358 or email me at dfiorito@fs.fed.us. Bids will be accepted through July 4, 2004. The winner will receive their buckle as soon as possible after that date and at least within 30 days.

Thanks for supporting one of our own.
DF

Details on Matt:
Matt Taylor is one of our senior fire fighters on the Prineville Hotshots.
About six weeks ago Matt underwent exploratory brain surgery and was found to have an aggressive cancerous tumor. His physician gave a prognosis of six months to one year to live. At present Matt is undergoing chemo therapy and doing what he can to fight the cancer. His chemotherapy costs $2,200 a month. His insurance company is only willing to cover half of that expense. In addition he has incurred further medical expenses that his GS-5 salary does not come close to covering. We are instituting a donation account with Bank of America to help allay the cost of his chemotherapy and the rest of his medical expenses. The account number with B of A is 2884010802, and if you are in another state you can go to your local B of A and use the following account number: OR2-134-01-01 to make your deposit. Matt has been married for less than two years and has one child, Jordan, one year old. Any amount no matter how small will be very helpful and appreciated very much. Here's a photo of Matt and Jordan.

Looks a little like a "CYA with the media" type message to me. It says
the feds "will contract with private companies for up to 36 single engine
airtankers (SEATS), 26 Type 1 (heavy) helicopters, 45 Type II (medium)
helicopters and two CL 215 airtankers. In addition, eight U.S. military
C-130 aircraft equipped with the Modular Airborne Firefighting System are
available". All this at a whopping cost of $66 million. My taxpayer
pocketbook just trembled.

So let's see....thats 117 aircraft to replace 33 heavy airtankers. Hmmmm.
Are these aircraft gonna be prepositioned somewhere, ready for the firebell
to ring on IA? Or could this just be a list of what is already on the
National CWN contracts, already at our disposal, with the normal delayed
response depending on location (like up to several States away)?

A few rumors going around in R5 about prepositioning a few Type 1
Helicopters, (mostly in South Zone) but what about the rest of it?
Interesting.

FirenWater

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Date: June 1, 2004
Contacts: Rose Davis (208) 387-5437
Anne Jeffery (208) 387-5458

FIREFIGHTING AGENCIES TO INCREASE
AERIAL RESOURCES FOR WILDLAND FIRE OPERATIONS

Boise, Idaho--U.S. Department of Agriculture Forest Service and U.S. Department of the Interior agencies will acquire more than 100 additional aircraft to aid in this year's wildland fire season.

"We are committed to using available resources to stop fires before they become unmanageable," said Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth. "These additional aircraft will enable fire managers to fully maintain their ability to stop nearly 99 percent of all fires on initial attack and continue to protect communities."

Federal agencies will contract with private companies for up to 36 single engine airtankers (SEATS), 26 Type 1 (heavy) helicopters, 45 Type II (medium) helicopters and two CL 215 airtankers. In addition, eight U.S. military C-130 aircraft equipped with the Modular Airborne Firefighting System are available. The additional aviation assets will cost approximately $66 million.

"The new contracts and additional aircrafts will ensure that we maintain a high degree of aerial support and effectiveness," Bureau of Land Management Director Kathleen Clarke said. "We are working to ensure that are our firefighters are safe and have the resources they need to defend communities against wildfires."

These newly contracted planes and military planes will be part of the existing fleet of more than 700 firefighting aircraft that drop fire suppressants.

Federal and state firefighting partners developed the plan based on an evaluation of existing resources, fire danger, efficiency and cost effectiveness as well as a recent investigative report issued by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). When NTSB found that the agencies could not ensure the continuing airworthiness of 33 large fixed-wing airtankers, federal agencies last month terminated contracts for the tankers due to concerns for the safety of their crews and the public. The airtankers were used in wildland firefighting primarily for initial attack and support.

Wildland fires are managed and suppressed on the ground. Aerial resources are one of the many tools that assist firefighters in meeting their goal of successfully suppressing nearly 99 percent of all fires on initial attack. Fire managers have gradually increased the use of smaller planes and helicopters in firefighting support because of their maneuverability compared to the larger airtankers.

Thousands of wildland fires each year are suppressed on initial attack without the benefit of air support since not every ignition needs aerial support.

PS: Ab, please add this good informational link.

"We're working overtime with the Federal Aviation Administration on both short- and long-term plans, but in the meantime we can still do our firefighting job. We have hundreds of aircraft providing water-, foam-, and retardant-dropping capability, including medium and large helicopters, smaller single-engine air tankers, and military air tankers. ..... Our objective is to continue our record of success, suppressing 98 percent of fires upon initial attack....... Safety is our core value in firefighting. There is nothing we do in fighting wildfires that is worth losing one life."

Objectives, Safety and Tools:

1) Totally agree with Fedfire -- let's get the rotorheads all in a dither and check out the statistics on helicopter mishaps -- probably hard to dig up as the dirt is buried so deep within the community. Gliding would be my choice of hitting the ground rather than dropping like a rock.

2) And how about those SEATS? Let's take a look back at the end of the season (or two or three) -- safety record on a single engine versus multi-engine.....hmmmmm.

3) MAFFS -- here's a real kicker. Combination of all sorts of political stuff -- including "Objectives" -- I honestly believe that some of the previous postings were right on -- take a look at the head of Aviation for the FS -- military guy through and through. So, the "real" objective has been met -- get rid of the private sector and go with the military. Well, folks, these guys are fighting a war -- do you think they'd rather sit around a tanker base picking their nose waiting for the action to start (which has been ingrained in OUR culture, NOT the military culture).

Enough said -- I am ABSOLUTELY NOT an aviation expert, nor do I wish to be, but as a friend recently said to me: "You are SO retired" -- which is is SO right, and I'm SO glad to be, just because of some of the politically asinine events, comments, etc. like these that continue to spew from the agencies to cover "whatever." Better to "look good" than "be good."

Cache Queen

There are lots of interesting documents out on their site you might want to look at if you haven't already.

www.fs.fed.us/eacc/

RAB

Thanks for the links and welcome to theysaid. Ab.