The last time it played out forests on the Salmon Challis merged, there was a
reduction in fire (and other) positions and a chronically unfilled Forest FMO position
that led to fire manager overload and contributed to deaths on the Cramer Fire. Fire
managers have too many expectations placed on them by people who don't
understand fire and who don't understand human factors in stressful situations like
IA --- like Manager Bosworth who could give a rip about firefighters. He's
not a leader, he's simply another appointed not-educated-in-fire MANAGER, playing
his role in setting up the next tragedy. Interesting how no one at his level is ever held
accountable for HIS HOLE in the swiss cheese.

Now we have criminal negligence insurance. Big WHUP, we can proceed as before.
Clearheaded and focused on the task of fighting fire knowing we have a stable of lawyers
backing us up. Will people die? Probably, specially if it's a bad W/U fire season and people
are stretched. How many times on the W/U interface do firefighters step back and say we're
going to let it burn because we're short on resources?. What can really be done to
mitigate the causes of fire manager overload and a lot of inexperienced firefighters on
the line?

You spout the party line. Give me a break.

NorCal Tom

Ab, please add. I think I'm more angry at acceptance of the status quo expressed by Cynic
than I am of Bosworth's letter. At least Bosworth has an excuse for not seeing the bigger
fire setup.

well folks, i'm on short final with flaps and wheels down and looking
forward to a loooooooong run out... it has been great and i wish you all
the best G Elton Thomas

End of the Line
By
G. Elton Thomas
April 1, 2005

It's the end of the line,
I can see it so clear!
I wasn't so sure that
I'd ever be here.

The journey just started,
So it seems to me.
And now it is over, but then
That's how it is supposed to be.

The Malheur National Forest
On Vinegar Hill spire.
Mom and dad
Spent the 1940 summer looking for fire.

After the war, dad
Began and ended his career
Wallowa-Whitman National Forest
LaGrande District Fire Control Officer.

I grew up in the Forest
Hiking, huntin' and fishin'.
Wanting to follow dad's footsteps
A second generation tradition.

My career has been awesome,
It was simply the best.
Covering much of Oregon and Washington
In the Pacific Northwest.

A precious wife, son and daughter
Joined me on the journey.
A grand adventure
Each with our own special memory.

The people we've met
And the places we've seen
Combine to fulfill
The most incredible dream.

Union, Baker City,
Lakeview and Toketee.
Portland, Winthrop, Portland again
And finally to Wenatchee!

Montana, California and New York City,
Forida, Nevada, South Dakota and New Dehli
Fire fighting and emergencies
Took me where I never expected to be.

42 years in the Service
I have been blessed beyond measure.
There are a few regrets
But lots of memories to treasure.

Each one of us is given
A few significant events
That intersect a life, where only
Divine intervention makes sense.

A day to live over,
July 10, 2001, for me.
Four young firefighters,
Never more to see.

Their lives speak to us!
Live each moment as though it's the last,
Appreciate the present, look to the future
And remember the past.

I've learned a few things
The most important I cheer.
It's relationships with people,
Cherish and hold them dear.

Well, the curtain is drawn
This act has come to a close.
With the help of family and friends,
I'm ready to face what only God knows.

It has been years since I have written but I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find 2005 predictions for the season or predicted weather patterns? I have checked out the NIFC site and also the Eastern Great Basin Dispatch webpage. I can't find what I am looking for, although I don't exactly know what I am looking for. I know in the past I have found "predictions" for the season but I can't find one for '05. An OT prediction would be perfect though....

Hoping for a hot season..
NP

FHS is a fine resource for those interested in such things, with a data base
that's become mind boggling in the past few years. www.lib.duke.edu/forest/

SITL

DF

So, a few suggested phrases to throw at him in an attempt to get his
attention: felony negligent homicide, involuntary manslaughter, personal
liability lawsuit.

Maybe that will start him thinking about the implications to him
personally when something goes wrong with the "good ole boys"
under his command and control?

Mollysboy

Scientist have discovered a new element - The Heaviest Element - Governmentium

A major research institution has recently announced the discovery of the heaviest chemical yet known to science. This new element has been tentatively named "Governmentium".

Governmentium has one neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy
neutrons, and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A tiny amount of Governmentium causes one reaction to take over four days to complete when it would normally take less than a second.

Governmentium has a normal half-life of four years; it does not decay but instead, it undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time since each reorganization will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes. This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientists to speculate that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypocritical quantity is referred to as "Critical Morass." You will know it when you see it. When catalyzed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium, an element which radiates just as much energy since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

Were they studying the R5 hiring process when they discovered this? Ab.

How do we get in touch with Doug Campbell?

R2 FF

Take a look on the Classifieds page for a link to his website and contact info. Ab.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, and Happy Retirement. Or am I a month early???

Thank you for your contributions.

Ab.

I did a paper last year and I'm pretty certain it was George McDougall an asst park naturalist NPS in 1943 (? probably Yellowstone?) who is credited with first publicly suggesting that fire burning in the environment was important part of ecosystem cycles. What guts! I looked in my notes. It wasn't until 1972 that Yellowstone began its Wildlife Project Management Policy -in which lightning caused fires were allowed to burn. I heard this created only 1 acre of burned area the first year and 2 acres the second year. Generally lightning busts are accompanied by rain to put fires out. It was explained to me that the combination of fuel loading due to bug kill, blowdown, drought etc and ignition without much rainfall to put it out (continued drought) only make for serious burn years like 1988 every 300-400 years. And that burning is critical for releasing nutrients back into the environment and releasing seeds. Things don't decompose there like they do here in coastal OR where I am, because it's too dry. They burn instead.

I've wondered if most of the firefighters who participated in that summer of Yellowstone fires have retired by now. I sure would like to hear some stories. I don't recall that anyone died even with all the extreme fire behavior craziness. Could that be right? I bet there were some close calls.

Beth

PS. missing the smoke.

Could you enlighten me as to why the USFS has an age limit to qualify for a permanent "FIRE" position. I came to wildland firefighting later in life, I truly love the work and am fully devoted to the cause. I have to say though I've never heard a good explanation as to why there is a magical 37 years old cut off. I have seen several very qualified folks go through a lot of grief and lose sleep over this. It seems to me we shouldn't penalize folks with experience who left for a few years or those who spent time in other fields and come to wildland firefighting later in life. I realize there are only so many permanent "FIRE" positions available but maybe the creation of a professional Federal wildland firefighting agency would create more positions.. just a thought…

forever a "seasonal"….
hotcut

Thinking is that to get in the 20 years before mandatory retirement at 57, firefighters must start before 37. Ab.

Dale

Does anyone know who was the first in land mgmt to suggest publicly that
fire was important in the natural scheme of things? this is following the 1910
fires and the "put 'em out by 10 AM policy"? Was it FS or NPS?

GGF

I bet NPS. FS had Smokey. Ab.

Region 5 is plowing ahead as fast as mud with hiring. At least we're hiring... However, the R5 Forester wants to see your app. No one gets hired 'til their application crosses his desk. It will help if you have a hispanic name or checked the right ethnicity box. Ab.

Welcome to the fray Bones. Don't hesitate to chime in here with info, questions, jokes or comments. We welcome you new folks. Come visit chat, too. You'll probably get swept away in the tidal wave of those who know each other, but folks are nice. You'll learn who's who over time. Ember, our moderator, is willing to answer questions and welcomes new folks. Ab.

Redline, or horizontal smile

The line you get from your fire back rubbing against your butt all season long as you hike*

*more of a shot or jumper thing

RR

Thanks, Ab added it to WLF Terms.

Here's my advice to Paul regarding hiring: Call all of the places you want to work and talk to the fire person in charge of hiring. If you're a returning student (going back in the fall) you can get hired with the FS through the STEP program with less paperwork than Avue.

Check out the USAJOBS site as Ab mentioned, and don't look in just the west unless that's the only place where you want to go. The eastern regions of the US Fish & Wildlife Service and USFS hire firefighters too. Also look at state agencies, as well as the BLM, USFS, and FWS.

One place to look that is exactly what you are looking for is the Great Northern Fire Crew in Missoula, MT. It's a training crew for people with no fire experience, and will get you on the right track. The crew supervisor is a great guy, and it would be a good idea to talk to him personally, because they will start looking at hiring soon.

www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire_r1/great-northern-crew/

As Ab said, many FS crews in the west are getting cut this year, so it might be a bit tough to get a job now. I know this from personal experience because my job (along with 3/4 of the other seasonal positions on my district) got cut, and the same scenario is being played out across Region One. But don't give up, because if we have the year it looks like we'll have, the FS might have to hit the panic button mid-summer and hire anyone with a red card. Try and get the basic wildland training if you can: S-130, S-190, I-100, the Standards for Survival/Annual Fire Safety class, etc.

Also, when you apply, be sure to highlight any skills you may have outside of fire. I know more than one person from the NE that got hired on fire crews out west because they were licensed EMTs or Paramedics.

Jump on it now, talk to people at the places you want to work, and be willing to go anywhere.

Best of luck.

Young and Dumb in Region One

I meant to include the Monterey County firefighters and public in my
post. I hit the send after adding the attachment. Please accept my apologies
for the oversight. Thank you for clarifying.

SoCal 0081 Firefighter
(! who is avoiding eating rocks and glass - is willing to apologize !)

i see we are all yelling about work and safety... please keep yelling, some folks just cant hear... i was on a  fire about 2 weeks ago and came across 3 vol ff that wearing  shorts and sandals out digging line... so i go to the chief in charge and point out what i have seen, he says dont worry about it, they have been firefighters a long time.... so i am now asking you all what steps do i need to take to get this point across to the local vfd.... ooo yes i did take a few pics......

thanks
ncbrush6

I wish we had the pics of the hotshot hand that got infected from the splinter on a fire in 2002. It was reported with slide presentation at the hotshot meeting in Feb 2003. Even small medical issues can turn into large ones. Nothing like a few graphic images to harden your resolve to seek help earlier. Serious lessons learned. Ab.

Is that the project for assessing the fire problems in
Monterey County / Fort Ord that's funded by a BLM
grant and directed by a Monterey County board of
directors (firefighters and citizens)? Thanks for sharing
that info. I heard about that from one of the planners.

Monterey Co F/F

Awesome site, been lurking for years, wondering if anyone out there
has S-211 (pumps) on a powerpoint presentation, or if its available
online somewhere. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for your time.

KF

"What everyone knows is what has already happened or become obvious.
What the aware individual knows is what had not yet taken shape, what has
not yet occurred. Everyone says victory in battle is good, but if you see the
subtle and notice the hidden so as to seize victory where there is no form,
this is really good."
-- Chapter 4: "Formation"

vfd cap'n

Doug Campbell's Fire Signature Method is being used to ground truth the
computer modeling output of Farsite. Some discussion of this went on just
last week between State and Federal firefighters. I find this an interesting
development. Attached please find a description of the fire signature portion
of that meeting that's circulating.

SoCal 0081 Firefighter

Marc Castellnou who had just participated in Doug's fire signature
prediction class (then called CPS) in Spain in 1998 as a novice sent
this message way back then. He told me please to send it to theysaid.

From Marc Castellnou,1998
An important thing is that CPS is saving lives in Europe.

We were just four days ago fighting in a long fireline. The fire was
going down in a very steep slope (SW). We started the work in the
morning at 0900 and were there working all day. Part of the fire in
front of us was 50 meters from the bottom of the valley at 1200 and about
200 meters down the valley from our position. It was dangerous because
there was fuel between this head of the fire and us. When the fire gets to
the bottom it will be in alignment with slope, aspect and wind to make a
run, and we were in the path of this run.

I told this to the boss of the fire. It took me a half hour to explain and
convince this guy, but at the end he agreed and called everybody out of the
area. The people start to leave at 1445 and the run starts at 1510. We
were safe at that time.

Campbell's method is changing the way to fight fire and be safe all
around the world.

Another new item is that Domingo Molina put CPS questions and Doug
Campbell's name in a University test for the ones who want the Forestry
degree and knowledge about fighting wildfire.

One more thing.
I just come from Portugal, where the third Forest Fire Research and the
14th Fire Meteorology Conference was conducted last week. I exposed
there some of our research work and also the software that makes the CPS
prediction, just the paper version. So its done, its running and the
people and experts of the world like it.

Today in Spain its common practice to have tracks, trigger points and time
tags marked on maps at the beginning of shift. Evaluation of changing fire
behavior and a heads up on reevaluating tactics have saved lives.

A *Fire Signature Prediction Method* Supporter

What's the P-38 you talk about? A gun or a can opener
or something different named after a fighter plane?

NewGuy

Read the clarification from Oliver below.

Paul, go to our FAQ page and read there. If you get a job working for the feds you will be trained. I don't know about private companies and their training procedures. To work for the feds this summer, you need to apply NOW for an OPM Series 0462, Series 0455 or Series 0401 job. (You probably should have started applying in early Feb.) These jobs do not say "firefighter", but the ones we've weeded out on the links to our Jobs page are firefighter positions (top right - Series 0462, Series 0455 or Series 0401). The thing is, you want a seasonal or temporary job, so it might be best to go to one of the fed pages that lead you through applying for those, like this FS page with a centralized listing. (Seems you need to be a rocket scientist these days to figure out the ropes.) Figure out where you might like to work. Some areas of the US are not hiring seasonal firefighters due to budget. You might call before you apply. Apply to as many as you can. I hope that's a start. Good luck. Ab.

Another casualty of the spam filter. Sorry for that Dan. I put 'em on the I remember page. Ab.

I remember when everyone carried a P-38 with them, just in case....
And for those that don't know what a P-38 is, it wasn't to ward off
hungry Bears. It was to ward off hungry F/F's.

I remember when Air Tankers were Borate Bombers.

danfromord

While I'm obviously not unbiased about the fire shelter and the training associated with its use because of my work at MTDC from 1989 - 2000 and participating in way too many entrapment investigations, I must still voice my disagreement with your comments about that practicing an organized shelter deployment is "farcical". I believe that there is merit in practicing shelter deployments, and using "visualization" to prepare yourself for the conditions that you may eventually encounter.

Need an example? I'd recommend reviewing the shelter training video "Your Fire Shelter - 2001" and listen closely to the comments of Dave LaTour, who went through the "Dude Fire" entrapment with the Perryville inmate crew. Dave's impressions and comment were the result of his near-death experience and were offered to help others survive a similar event.

I'm about one-third of the way through "Deep Survival" and haven't reached the same conclusions that you've drawn from it: maybe the rest of the book will change my mind? Or, maybe it won't?

Dick Mangan

DM

Bosworth's letter follows:

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I’m hearing a lot of buzz about the Forest Service budget for FY 2005 and the President’s  proposed budget for FY 2006. Let me give you my take on our budget situation …

This is without question a difficult budget year, and I expect the foreseeable future to be the same. When discretionary spending is tight -- in times of budget deficits and international challenges - - I accept that the Forest Service has a role in fiscal restraint.

I know that tough choices and tradeoffs will have to be made. In my discussions with Congress, the media, and others, I openly acknowledge such challenges, but I focus on what we can accomplish in spite of them. I’m confident that we will continue to make great progress in such high-priority areas as hazardous fuels reduction, where I expect we will again set records this year. The National Leadership Team will meet in early April to focus our programs on our top priorities and identify the needed tradeoffs.

I also tell people what we’re doing to increase program efficiencies so we can reduce our overhead costs and get more dollars to the ground. The efficiencies we’re gaining in Budget and Finance Management, and Information Resources Management once again demonstrate the “can do” character of the Forest Service. To go from just a concept on paper 18 months ago to a functioning national service center today with close to 200 employees is a phenomenal achievement. I’m confident that we’ll see similar successful changes as we restructure our Human Resources Organization and that substantial savings from all three of these efforts will be realized. We’ll also gain efficiencies from stewardship contracting and other tools under the Healthy Forests Initiative and Healthy Forests Restoration Act. All this will go a long way toward getting the on-the-ground results we need to accomplish our mission, as well as reducing our costs.

We should also be proud of our three clean audits in a row, and we’ve just been removed from the Government Accounting Office’s list of high-risk areas in government. The list identifies programs and agencies that need special attention from Congress and the Administration, and we’d been on that list since 1999. Being removed from the list can’t help but make us more competitive for federal dollars in these tight times.

I’ve probably heard the most concern expressed, both internally and externally, about whether we’ll have enough firefighting resources this year. Both Congress and the administration expect a level of preparedness comparable to last year, and I’m confident that we can provide that. We’ll also have enough money to fight fires without being anti-deficient. A bad fire year is predicted, especially for the Northwest and Northern Rockies, but if we exceed available suppression funds, we’ll simply adjust. We’ve done it in the past, and we can do it again if necessary.

In my 39 years with the Forest Service, I’ve found out the hard way that it doesn’t do much good to complain about budgets. It rarely results in additional funding, and it usually doesn’t resonate well with the public. Most people feel we have plenty of funding if only we’re efficient about how we use it.

In closing, let me just say again that I know we have a challenging future. But I also know we’re up to the task. By focusing on our top priorities, working with our partners, and finding ways to improve our efficiency, we can accomplish our mission, even in these tight times.

At least, that’s my take.
Dale

Your message is clear. Thanks for writing in. Ab.

• The number of (wildfire) disasters will increase proportionally to the number of safety plans, standard operating guidelines, high tech equipment and rules of engagement we are compelled to generate, memorize and maintain.
• Some of us will check out the view from inside a fire shelter again this season. Gladly we're getting (new) better ones.
• To practice "organized" shelter deployment (let alone how we intend to act once we're in there) is farcical. We may assume our leaders already experienced some sort of tactical short-circuit well before the fact. Survivors will abandon their leaders, their plans, and any operational loyalty. If it ever happens to me, I intend to pass my time (surviving in a fire shelter) deep within myself, not worrying about you. Whether I survive or not, I'm done with wildland fire.

Come to think of it, these three points have consistently proven true since I started in 1981.

Optimistically,
FS Capt

The burglar quietly jimmied the back door and entered the house he’d been watching for some time. He snickered to himself at how easy it was. The owner seemed to be absent a lot in the summer, sometimes 14 days or more. He crept through the kitchen and into the living room with an eye out for anything he could grab and sell easily. Suddenly, from across the room he heard a scratchy voice say, “Spotfires behind you”. He jerked his flashlight across the room searching for the person who spoke. The voice came again, a little louder in front of him, “Spotfires behind you”. This time his flashlight reflected off a bird cage, in which sat a parrot, calmly watching him.

He was very relieved to see it was just a dumb old bird. In jest he whispered back, “Well, hello parrot, what’s your name”? To his surprise, the parrot answered and said, “Sparky”. The burglar chuckled aloud, “That’s a silly name for a bird”, he said, “who’d name their parrot Sparky”? The bird cocked its head, then replied, “The same guy who named his rottweiler Spotfire”.

SteveM

Haw Haw. I added it to jokes. Ab.

Always remember to wear eyeglasses or clean out your eyes thoroughly after working outside if you feel there are intruders...... this is disgusting..... Yikes! Is there a market for RAID eyedrops!

Subject: Why do you wear PPE ? Good training issue.

Its just like from an alien movie, be very careful when you get caught with dust...
The following photos will show effects of bad dust to a person's eye.
While a firefighter was walking he felt an eye irritation. Thinking that it was just regular dust, he started to rub his eye, in an effort to remove the dust. Then his eyes got really red, and he went and bought some eye drops from a pharmacy.
A few days passed and his eyes were still red and seemed a little swollen.
Again he dismissed it thinking that the pain will go away.
As the days go by, the swelling of his eye got worse: redder and bigger.
He decided to go see a doctor for a check up.

The doctor immediately wanted an operation, being afraid of a tumor growth or cyst.
At the operation, what was thought to be a growth or cyst, actually turned out to be a live worm.
What was thought initially to be just mere dust actually was an insect's egg.
Because of that, my friends, if you do get caught in dust, and the pain persists, please go see a doctor immediately...

...and always wear your PPE.

See Redwings, SJs and ex SJs just have a lott'a bark. Ab.

Ab and all, thanks for your indulgence. This is another long one... As I pounded away it just turned into more of a "barracuda" piece than a "guppy guppy"! I call it An Argument for Training in Tactical Fire Behavior Prediction for Groundpounders - What are the "Barriers" to Such Training?

Mellie

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

It looks like Doug Campbell's tactical fire behavior prediction class (Fire Signature Prediction) might be taught to line officers in R3 so they can try and cover their legal posteriors. Helibase managers and others have also been worried they're at risk as a result of Cramer and OIG/DOJ. Of course, here on theysaid we've had a first-hand seat on the legal concerns of ICT3s and higher ICs. Legal concerns are mitigated to some degree if firefighters buy criminal/civil liability insurance. <hellof-a'note> However, problems that led to the concerns have not been mitigated. I do commend the good efforts underway to clarify Fire Doctrine, policies and practices. We need some real solutions.

There's growing momentum for tactical fire behavior training - Campbell's fire signature prediction - and it's my professional opinion that this method has real value. I know firefighters have lot on their plate, a lot to teach, a lot for new folks to learn, a lot of new folks. That said, in my opinion Campbell's method should be taught to all on the fireline so that Commanders Intent more easily and safely can be implemented as Doctrine.

For all you old fire dogs out there, I imagine you've heard about Doug's Fire Signature Prediction class, have taken it, have integrated parts of it into your S-190 class, and/or have focused on computer-oriented fire prediction route. All of you have fire behavior experience and at this point have a perspective, which is not a novice's perspective. While you don't necessarily need a tactical fire prediction course, the groundpounding novice does, especially as more of you retire. So how does this training impact a novice?

Here's my "take" on Fire Signature Prediction from the perspective of the novice and why I think it's important training. I also offer psychological insights as to why its not more universally required for novice firefighters.

Overview: When I took Doug's Fire Signature Prediction class in spring 2000 with the Ventura Co Fire Dept, I literally "felt" the cognitive shift ("blinding glimpse of the obvious": BGO) that many inexperienced participants report. It occurred in my brain when all the many possible fire factors got organized and prioritized and I realized you could ask and answer:

1. "what particular important fire factors made this fire do what it has done on this piece of ground" and

2.  "when and where might those factors change, changing the fire's behavior and putting me at risk?"

The logic to evaluating fire behavior change on the ground, so as to evaluate the 10 and 18 (or more simply LCES), dawned on me in a flash. In cognitive psychology, we'd say that Doug's teaching enhances the "chunking" process -- the process of ordering and prioritizing many complex bits of information at a higher level. Chunking information can be a meta-cognitive process that develops in people with years of experience who more automatically make sense of a situation involving complex inputs. Their mental organization is usually gained in small increments, like gathering a photographic slide here, a slide there, with relations between slides -- over years. Often experts in professions that deal with very complex phenomena can't tell you how they know what they know, but if you used a method of brain imaging - like a PET scan - their brain patterns would probably light up differently than a novice's brain would when confronted with the same task.

Interestingly enough, Campbell's method has met some resistance in fed fire circles outside of Southern California for a number of reasons that I can see. Here are some I've observed in the order they popped into mind.

1) Cognitive processes: First and foremost! Through fireline experience, advanced firefighters reviewing Doug's method have already achieved some level of "chunking" of the myriad predictive fire factors. They can't go back to having an inexperienced mind (for example, as when they had no "slides" in even one tray of their Recognition Primed Decision-making or RPD fire slidetrays). As a consequence, they may not see how Campbell's method can really help new folks get a handle on all the info that they themselves first recognized and then integrated, through experience and/or guidance under their fire mentors.

Most experienced fire minds already have the bigger fire behavior picture - in the RPD analogy - more slides and fire outcomes organized by category in multiple prioritized slidetrays. As a result of their developed brain organization, experienced firefighters are freed up to notice the nuance of little details that might still impact the fire's behavior. To the inexperienced all those details are simply a jumble of little details, each item having the same importance as every other, and lots of lists to memorize in training. Lists of disjointed items are not slides that inform behavior. Slides need slide trays to have coherence and logic and meaning.

You can think of chunking as placing the many details into categories or into a hierarchy of groupings of details with an emphasis on the hierarchy, i.e., training yourself to look for the most important combination of things first in answering the question "What made the head and heel and flanks of this fire burn as they did?". Novices pull on individual slides with little or no organization imposed. Masters pull on trays of slides with known relations to other trays. Having some way to facilitate chunking of the most important information is critical to move more quickly toward achieving a metacognitive structure.  You could say that Campbell's method experienced by the novice creates and orders the slide trays that form the logical structure that the slides will go in, and provides a number of illustrative slides as well. The feeling you get when you see the logic of the slidetray arrangement is profound. It's that "blinding glimpse of the obvious".

Continue HERE...

My name is Donovan, and I was recently hired by the USFS to work on a Type 3 Engine in Central OR. What are your thoughts on the type and manufacturer of boot that I should buy? I have large (Size 14 or 14 1/2), relatively narrow, low-volume feet. They're also flat, and I wear a custom orthotic footbed in my other shoes and boots. I've heard that White's makes an amazing boot, but is there anything comparable at a cheaper price? I realize that my foot is pretty unique, so I might have to spend the extra dough for a custom fit, but if you have any recommendations, I'd really appreciate it!!!

Donovan

p.s. What are some favorite socks out there? I can get Smartwool light hikers at a discount, I was thinking about a dozen pair or so. Are they worth a damn? Thanks again!!!

Donovan, welcome. Read back over the last month. There's been discussion of boots. If I get time today look back I'll point you to some dates. Readers, if anyone has really big feet and/or orthotics, please chime in here. Ab.

Our condolences for your loss. Ab.

NorCal Tom

Ab,

I didn't mean to offend anyone. It was just a joke. sry

Redwings741

Hey Redwings, this is not something to apologize over. Yer a newcomer and the smokejumper is just testing yer resolve. Stand up straight and look 'em in the eye! I thought it was pretty funny. Ab.

The photos for my presentation would not be for the purpose of getting people to stop and talk with me. I figure the free beer out in front of my stand ought to do that fairly well. Kidding aside, my hope is that the photos would embellish the written materials that I have, and make the whole presentation a little more interesting for those who are wandering by. Nor do I need photos to make specific points. Just pics of anything injury related: air or ground ambulances in action, evacuation, accident scenes, anything that is visually interesting and related to the topic. Thanks again for your help.

FirePsych

"Can wildland fire behavior really be predicted? That depends on how accurate you expect the answer to be. The minute-by-minute movement of a fire will probably never be predictable - certainly not from weather conditions forecasted many hours before the fire."

The rules of engagement are used to assure that the agency and OSHA and OIG follow the lead of the Forest Service and assign blame in fatalities to those found to be in VIOLATION of such rules.

This procedure deflects blame from the agencies training and qualification standards and assumes the folks they certify as competent are in fact never over their heads on any assignment. If firefighters run into situations that are beyond their capability to understand, whose fault is it?

1. You can't possibly have a burnover fatality and not be in violation of many of the rules of engagement.

2. To avoid burnover situations one must be able to predict the minute-by-minute changes in fire behavior and detect a hazardous situation before it occurs.

3. Now if the preferred fire behavior prediction method is based on Rothermel's work and BEHAVE, and the author said the models can't make these predictions, how can we fix the blame on folks who are doing the best they can but fall short of accurate fire behavior predictions? Experienced firefighters are able to utilize their acquired knowledge to fill the gaps in the fire behavior training. When it fails and burnovers happen the S-courses are not questioned to determine if the training would have prevented the accident if it had been followed as taught.

If the training is truly adequate for these classic fire scenarios then why not write solutions using the subject training and teach from the lessons learned?

4. I think it is time that we insist that our leaders who espouse the "We don't bend or break any of the rules" take a Division assignment on a complex fire. Why don't we ask them spend time on a few fires and demonstrate their capability to accomplish what they think is possible, and document it. Maybe they should join a Hotshot crew for a season.

5. In case they do not take the challenge and are too busy with more important things I would conclude that they are just spouting these phrases but are not willing to do what leadership requires and demonstrate their ability to make fire behavior predictions that are accurate and keep the tactics always within the rules of engagement. I think this would be a valuable lesson for all firefighters. Imagine the knowledge that could be imparted to a Hotshot Supt. or Ops. Chief. If they can truly show the way to better, superior situational awareness and compliance with the rules of engagement, what are they waiting for?

Leadership is demonstrated by another saying. "Do not ask of others what you are not willing or able to do."

White Tornado

Hello,

I am looking for the pale green paint code used on USFS fire vehicles,
and LEO vehicles. If you can provide any leads, I would really
appreciate it.

thanks much!

KW

I've updated the Jobs Page and Series 0462 (Forestry Technician) & Series 0455 (Range Technician) jobs pages and Series 0401 ("professional" Biologist).

We hope you and your families have a good day and weekend.

Ab.

• C-rations on Helitack in the 60's but I carried an old box Motorola which could 
  occasionally reach a tower from a ridgetop.
• No nomex (nor could we afford the fine boots worn by the regulars).
• Our first Hotshot buggie - a leased flatbed on which we built wooden toolboxes, 
  on which my crew sat, under a canvass top.
• I can't recall whether we installed seat belts.
• My Superintendent was an old gentleman in a uniform with disabilities that kept 
  him off the fireline and out of the woods.
• My crew had no prior experience at all.
• Morning football caused so many injuries we had to switch to jogging.
• Crew contest - see who could catch and eat a lizard first (wasn't my idea).
• My last bar fight - saved from personal injury by my loyal crew (the lady who 
  caused it was thrown out and the assailant and I bought each other a beer).
• Good morale but not enough fires.

"Foreman, 1971" 

Added it to the list... I Remember ... Ab.

Safety Nap: The "so called" 8 hrs. you get to sleep after your 16 hr shift.

CLJ

I was humbled and awed by the honor shown to my son, Matt Taylor, yesterday at the memorial service.

You guys just keep on blessing us!! At least a hundred hot shots from surrounding areas and long distances came for a parade, complete with banners and engines with lights on, coming through downtown Bend and to the Church. It was standing room only as we watched a power point with photos of Matt with his fire friends and listened to Lance remember Matt. The presence of all those friends meant more to the family than any of you can know...or maybe you do, and that's why you were there. The donated leave, the contributions, the cards, prayers and well wishes, certainly sustained us through this time.

As I and my other children remember Matt, we will hold a special place in our hearts for the folks who worked on fire with him. What a brotherhood.

Thank you, be safe, and God bless you and your families.

Nancy Larson

Nancy, you're fire family. Thanks for sharing with us. Sorry for the delay. Ab.

Lighter PBY-1 photo. Ab tweaked the brightness. Still hard to tell about helmets. Tim, you must'a been there! Ab.

I am putting together a poster presentation for the upcoming IAWF summit in Missoula. The title of it is “Wildland Firefighters and Injury Recovery.” I am in need of photos along this theme, e. g. treatment, evacuation, injury scene, etc. The taker of said photo(s) would be referenced if I use their pics, should he/she so desire. I can be reached at msocharlie@earthlink.net if anyone out there has something they want to share. Thanks!

FirePsych

Readers, you're also welcome to send photos here and Ab will pass 'em on.

Are the photos for getting people to stop at your poster and talk with you? Or are they to illustrate some points in your poster paper? If they are for making points, please let us know what points - if you can do that without giving away your message. (I'm thinking about a thorn in hotshot finger that got infected and led to loss of the finger... those photos were graphic but I don't remember where I saw them.) Ab.

Here's another one....if you haven't heard it a thousand times.

How can you tell smokejumper handline?
It's burnt on both sides.

Redwings741

OK, Here's a place for wildland firefighter jokes. Ab.

Ah…ex shot, you of all people should know that joke was made for
jumpers. Maybe you typed it wrong, should read:

What’s the difference between a jumper handline and a deer trail?
The deer trail will hold.

And because we are on jokes, well its not really a joking matter, why
is it when you order lunches and water though helislak they always
come up with the wrong number of lunches and water? Maybe its time
for a new S class SCB-101 (should count better)

RR

I can remember "K" rats my firefighting daddy brought home once (?1949).
We kids thought they were great.
And all the mystery meat variations of things we ate thru the years.
Some of them weren't so great and once you threw up on one of em you never wanted another...ever.

Yeah, engines were tankers.

Old Wolf (also a Forester)

OK, here's the list... I Remember ... Ab.

I am gonna call your bluff on the no hardhat part of your post, especially if you were
eating Vietnam date C Rats or Ocean Mice as we used to call them. And those Engines
were Tankers weren’t they? Otherwise I am there with you bro.

Backburnfs

Whats the difference between a shot handline and a deer trail?
The deer trail will hold.

ex shot

CLJ

Chico air tanker firm being sold --AeroUnion being sold to Lake Union Capital Partners

Portland OR City officials work to keep lid on tinderbox

Vision Emerges for Future of State Forest Martha's Vinyard

Martha's Vinyard,
...which fire experts say is sited on the third most flammable landscape in the nation, after the Oakland Hills of California and the pine barrens of New Jersey. Historically, wildfires have roared through the scrub oak and pitch pine at ferocious rates, crossing from West Tisbury to the edge of Edgartown in as few as five hours.

Low humidity, high winds lead to fire alert ... in Texas