Three years on the Cleveland NF (Trabuco District) then saw the light
and joined CDF (1949) Old Forestry District III. Worked up and down
the State until 1983. Retired and living in Sonora, CA. Would like to
hear about old times!

PaPete.

KD

P.S. Forest Service can't use ADs on RX but all the rest can.

http://photos.imageevent.com/willy/jeeptrailride/websize/Fire%20Warning.jpg

Reg #6 Willy-N

Ron Santi

A photo shoot. I put all of 'em on Airtankers 16. Thanks. Ab.

Ab.

JR

Thanks JR. I posted them on the Fire 27 photo page. More ATs and others coming sometime soon I hope. Ab.

"the state has developed a statewide, web-enabled database system"

Yeah, a web database system.

On a similar track, I want to know who had the vision to create the system for 209s? That name should go on the IMWTK page. It's a database, data entered by many, read by some at a distance. Most of it is inside the fsweb and protected. But it's also used for research. In one freely accessed part, anyone can download summaries of the fire incident data by year under "SIT FACs" in a green bubble in the middle (it downloads as an .exe file). Brilliant, visionary database, stuff of the future. Kudos to the creator!

The key for the future will be to develop an internet database system so each one can hold hands with all other emergency systems relating to homeland security. One of these days we will have an overarching, overriding system, similar to the system of interstate roads with interchanges, but it will be an internet system in which data is shared among databases that need to talk with each other. This will help efficiency and enhance safety.

Why should 211 have to create yet another wildfire News and Notes page? Why not just link over to some central news and notes database or to the NIFC Fire News site and import that information to as many different centralized locations that the public can find and tap efficiently?

Right now we have a lot of redundancy of data that doesn't link to other data. We have redundancy because my agency's database software doesn't communicate with your agency's database software - no agreed upon standards. Believe me, before all is said and done, eGOV will have all the different fire softwares speaking with and augmenting each other. It's the wave of the future. That kind of networking of data is ultimately what the web is all about. And it won't stop there but will include cell phones and blackberries and other text messaging and alerting systems. Fed Ex tracks packages all over the world on such systems. The military moves personnel, ordnance and supplies around on such a system, we'll do all that and more at some time...

Mellie

Arizona just opened its internet based 211 website to be followed by a 211 phone system. These include wildland fire information as mentioned in your post as useful to the public and managers as well as firefighters. Here is the link:
www.az211.gov/

Old Sawyer

smce

I had already spent all morning updating our Fire News page to incorporate the transitioning new GACC sites. I'm glad to see that happening. A number of regional GACC sites are still at their old addresses, but forwarding to old urls works. The only sites that have news are the Southwest and the Western Great Basin Under the new system. even the SoCal GACC News and Notes goes away. The Eastern Great Basin might have a site sometime soon. They look like they're playing with data entry. As for the rest, there's a place holder, but no news and notes. If someone would alert us if such sites are created, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the WildWeb sites. Original Ab just mapped and linked them, check News page under WildWeb. Good job. I also updated the Type I IMT and the Type II IMT pages and the GACC info on the Links page as well. If you find any errors, please let us know. Ab.

R4 firefighter

Maria

Jon

https://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/tux/jsp/explorer/explorer.jsp

R2 FF

Todd

BW

I worked for a contractor once that took over three weeks to pay. I told them if they don't start paying sooner, then I will not work for you next year. Things changed, and I received my wages two weeks after returning from the fire. I would ask your boss where is my pay, if he says that he doesn't have it yet, or the Forest Service has not sent them a check yet, that is a bunch of bull! If he says this, then look for a different contractor to work for. There are many out there that are great to work for. Something you might like to know. The new rule is, after you have been released from a fire, the Forest Service has two weeks to pay the contractor, an the contractor should pay you. I feel for you, hope things get better.

Seafire

Thanks
LH

No need to apologize. Permanent link on our Links page under Training/Education. Here's the direct link to their website. Apprenticeship Program. Thanks to those folks and the people who contribute time teaching for a JOB WELL DONE. It's always great to visit the Academy and feel the energy, excitement and passion for learning. Ab.

www.cbsnews.com

EJK

Denial? It's raining in Boise. Imagine what we'll be up against if/when NIFC moves to Washington DC. (tongue firmly in place) Ab.

Nice ones. I put them on Handcrews 17 and Engines 14. Ab.

It is my understanding that all who voluntarily separated are being tracked down and billed. The current budget situation doesn't allow for the alternative. Ab.

Impressive afternoon (now morning) smoke plume coming from Arizona, columns
from southern Utah are visible also. Found this on the GOES website at:
http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/goeseastconus.html

sting

-joatmon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
XIV. SERVICE AGREEMENT

The USFS apprentices will be required to sign a Service Agreement, under 5 U.S.C. Section 4108, that will stipulate he/she agrees to remain in federal service for a period three times the length of their training period. The term “training period” is defined as the term hours identified in their Department of Labor Agreement. If the apprentice fails to meet the requirements of the service agreement, he/she agrees to reimburse the agency for the tuition and related fees, travel and other special expenses (excluding their salary) paid in connection with their formal training. The estimated costs of the full program are approximately $7,000 per apprentice.

If the employee voluntarily separates from federal service while the agreement is in force they will be held liable for reimbursement to the agency.

Currently this is not a requirement for DOI apprentices.

A copy of the approved Service Agreement is found in Appendix F.

XV. MOBILITY AGREEMENT

During their apprenticeship training period, apprentices are expected to perform work processes such as engines, helitack, and hotshots which may require that they work at a variety of duty stations. Working on a variety of modules will help prepare the apprentice for placement in future fire and aviation management positions.

At time of program completion, and depending on the hiring authority, the agency may choose to place an employee at a unit other than the one in which he/she was initially selected.

Currently this is not a requirement for BLM apprentices.

Things will always be new when the old timers leave the the room. You have to live with it and move on, I was the old dog in the woods with old ways. It does not mean I was always right. But I always believed in letting my folks talk about the problem first and then I would make the Call on the outcome. Your time will come alot sooner than you think. Some day right down the road you will be that old Dog with young pups to train. Keep your head up NorthNight. You will train around 100 plus before your time is done. You will sometime feel like its a waste, BUT ITS NOT. All of you New Folks Must learn to be Better than I was and bring all your Firefighters Home every time, all the time. To all of you out there your first thing is to STAY SAFE and remember all the trees and brush in the world can burn and it will grow back again BUT YOU WILL NOT!!!!!!!! SO Keep your eyes on the Ball.

OLD Tmo/Spike

I put it on Engines 14 'cause looks like there's some engines around there somewhere and what else do you do with a Harley? Ab.

Just a photo I thought I would share... Martis Fire Truckee CA 2001

Esther M

Wow, look at that column. I put it on Fire 27. Thanks also to the Willow Fire photographer whose pic is posted on that same page. Ab.

T-26, a sad loss of good men. I put it on Airtankers 16 photo page. Ab.

Hi Ab, Here's Tanker 23 at Minden on 6-22-05. She was there in support of the "Badger" fire in Carson City.

and from Claude St-Pierre, Canada, a photo called "de yellowknife"

Nice ones. I put them on Airtankers 16 photo page. Ab.

From Burns B: North Fork of the Shoshone National Forest. Spring Burns

From Wayne P3: Eat fire LA County off I-5 freeway 2004 August... crew rescue (4) from heat exhaustion

Thanks, I put 'em on Helicopters 19, Engines 14, and Fire 27 photo pages . Ab.

Here are some air tanker pictures from the secret fire in arizona.
in one of the pictures is Kingman Engine 261;
the night pictures are from the shinner fire in arizona.
the BLM engine is our own Montana 264! GET SOME!

dan

I put them on Airtankers 16 and Fire 27 photo pages. Ab.

Abs,

Here is a once in a lifetime shot of what happens when a fire creates its own weather. On this day we had a lightning strike start a 800 acre fire on the Green River/Uintah River confluence in NE Utah on the Uintah and Ouray Indian Reservation (BIA UOA). A small thunder cell started to develop just south of this smoke column and eventually the columns sucked up the cell and when they merged we had a good little lightning event. Robert Lee (BIA Fire Mgmt.) took the picture as we (Blaine Tarbell- BIA Fuels, Chris Secakuku - BIA Forester, and Kirby Arrive - BIA FMO) collaborated our strategy. If anyone wants a better copy of this pic, email me at c1secakuku@yahoo.com.

Chris F-8
BIA UT-UOA

It is remarkable, I put it on Handcrews 17. Ab.

Yes, Ab has heard of a number of people who have been held financially accountable.

Thanks Casey, I wasn't aware of the Series 0081 rewrite. Ab.

• If so how did it affect the USFS and BLM firefighters?

4. Are wildland crews represented by a Union?

5. What is the typical starting GS level for the USFS and BLM?

6. What certifications are required for entry level wildland crews and what is required to reach the target GS level? Example: a 0081 firefighter at the GS 5 entry needs to at least have state certifications at FF1, HazMat Awareness and EMT and 1 full year of structural experience. To reach our target level of GS-7 we need to have FF1&2, HazMat Tech or NREMT-B plus Driver Operator Pumper/Aerial.

just need some info.

Readers, maybe someone can reply to his specific questions. As for rewrite, I don't know if you mean the new professional standards for non 0081 firefighters, but here is a little info and some resource links for IFPM standards (IFPM =Interagency Fire Program Management,). To advance up the career ladder in fire, you will have to meet IFPM standards.

The 14 positions that are affected by the IFPM Standards are:

* Interagency Hotshot Crew Superintendent (technical)
* Helicopter Manager (technical)
* Senior Firefighter (technical)
* Engine Module Supervisor (technical)
* Supervisory Fire Engine Operator (technical)
* Initial Attack Dispatcher (technical)
* Wildland Fire Operations Specialist (professional or technical)
* Prescribed Fire and Fuels Specialist (professional or technical)
* Prevention and Education Specialist (professional or technical)
* Initial Attack Lead Dispatcher/Assistant Center Manager (technical)
* Center Manager (professional or technical)
* Unit Fire Progam Manager (professional)
* Geographic Area Fire Program Manager (professional)
* National Fire Program Manager (professional)

(In answer to another question that came in recently about online courses for Fire Managers: List of IFPM Web-based Courses and Universities offering them from U Idaho; under "Courses", click the online Courses (download EXCEL Spreadsheet))

For those who have been commenting on the void at the South Ops website, there's
an internal FS outreach going on: GS-11, Series 460. Check the intranet. It's a good
opportunity to learn how management works.

Tahoe Terrie

NEWS RELEASE JUNE 24, 2005

The office of the Acting Director of the Office of Personnel Management, (OPM) Mr. Dan Blair, located in Washington D.C., today contacted Casey Judd, Business Manager for the Federal Wildland Fire Service Association (FWFSA) to seek a meeting between the two on HR 408, The Federal Wildland Firefighter Emergency Response Compensation Act.

As many know, the FWFSA is the primary sponsor of the legislation which would provide portal to portal pay for federal wildland firefighters (as defined) and include hazard pay in retirement calculations.

Recently, a copy of a draft letter from OPM opposing the legislation, made its way among federal wildland firefighters and ultimately to Mr. Judd's desk. As a result, the FWFSA launched what was a very successful campaign to seek names to be used in a petition seeking hearings on the legislation. A copy of the petition was also faxed to OPM Acting Director Blair, along with a scathing e-mail from the FWFSA to OPM personnel involved in the crafting of the draft letter, denouncing the inaccurate and misleading information in the OPM letter destined for the subcommittee chairman and suggesting that OPM and the FWFSA sit down to reach accord to benefit the Nation's federal wildland firefighters.

For more information, please contact Casey Judd at FWFSAlobby@aol.com or (916) 515-1224.

Resident

In my opinion the internet is vastly underutilized for providing information in emergency situations. This has been changing for the better and undoubtedly will continue to change. You might send your complaint to the webmaster of the CA state website. Often those non-emergency people in charge of larger websites don't see the need for easily accessible emergency information. Firefighters who read here have little to do with the state website. It is frustrating though, isn't it? Ab.

GW

I forwarded your email. Thanks for the response. Ab.

Sounds like a good idea to have a "Lessons Learned" section. Ab.

Thanks for the heads up, -AL. I'm glad someone rejected the weird bubble gum, glow-in-the-dark colors of the initial GACC map. The new colors are much more in keeping with the work. Ab.

Ab.

KW

Thanks K and welcome. Sorry for the delay on posting this. Your email got caught in the spam filter. Ab.

Fine Fuels, 2005

Ab.

Readers?

I added the info. Thanks. Ab.

New link to "official" website (Whitney's Team site is now up):

http://fireteam-sw.com/whitney/cavecreek/

Old Sawyer

Thanks to EVERYONE who sent links and messages and docs. It's great to see the info in one form or another come in from FS, BLM, CDF, and a vollie and from NV, CA, NM, AZ, UT, ID and WY! Ab.

FEMO (fire effects monitor)

HZ

Thanks, I added it. Ab.

At different times during the last few days, fire behavior has caused overhead to pull firefighters off the line on fires in AZ and NV. (I don't know about soCAL, maybe there, too.) Some fires have been active at night, in some cases more active than during the day. Fine fuel loading is VERY HIGH because of the wet winter/spring. Some rumors are filtering in but all firefighters are safe so far.

FIREFIGHTERS, PLEASE continue to BE SAFE, keep HEADS UP.

I've heard that NWCG recently put out an ALERT. If someone has it, please forward so we can share it widely and so those in firecamp can print it off and distribute it. Lots of firefighters are moving into areas with different terrain and vegetation than they're used to. Be aware.

I think the primary SAFETY message for this season is

• FUELS ARE VERY FLAMMABLE
• GRASS AND OTHER FINE FUELS ARE ABUNDANT

Someone told me the NWCG message warned people

• DON'T TRY TO OUTRUN A GRASS FIRE
• If you must deploy, BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU DEPLOY A FIRE SHELTER. Given the dense amount of fuel, even areas that are burned may have a thick enough fuel mat that didn't completely burn that it could have an opportunity to reburn if the fire reverses direction. Digging down to mineral soil, that's the key.

First goal this season as every season: Everyone comes home healthy.

Ab.

Readers, you have to register (free) to view some stories and videos. Ab.

I was in Yucca Valley (San Bernardino County), CA last weekend visiting the
first federal fire station I ever worked at. About the time I pulled into
the station a good sized fire was going in the town of Pioneertown, just
north of the city. I visited with the firefighter who was at the station on
days off, and who was hoping that some of her crew would return quickly so
she could go to the fire.

When I started there in 1987 as a GS-3 firefighter my hourly wage was $5.77
per hour. The woman I spoke to was a GS-4 firefighter and her hourly wage
for Southern California was something like $13.45 per hour. Right now I
work as a GS-7 Structure Firefighter and my wage is just a little more than
that per hour (but I work a 72hr workweek instead of a 40hr week).

When I worked there in 1987 it was a new BLM station in the Black Rock
Campground of the Joshua Tree NM, with an old 1975 International Model 51
leased from the Forest Service. The station itself was a dilapidated
single-wide mobile home which let critters in from all the holes in it.

Today it is one of the most modern inter-agency stations that has and NPS
Model 61 engine, and a BLM Model 14 and Model engine. This place is an
example of what all federal wildland stations should be made up like across
the nation. To the people who work there, you have the best of both worlds
with new equipment, a modern station, and an active area. Be proud of it.

While I was there last Saturday the fire was making good runs with moderate
winds, but the temperature that day was only 76 degrees. Looking at the
fire that is going on today in Morongo Valley (which is southwest and down
the hill from Yucca Valley) the temps were in the mid-100's.

This is going to be a busy season if what we are seeing in Southern
California continues.

MOC4546

Thanks Diana, I'll post the pic soon. I'm still working through a virtual stack of them. I added the info to the IMWTK page. Ab.

Brush Fire Consumes 7 Homes, Threatens Others
www.latimes.com

Socal CDF

Remember Readers, you can go to the News Page, click WLF News Search in the left-hand menu, and find current articles yourself. You can also click on WildWeb Dispatch and when forests come up, you can look for most recent vegetation fires or for resources that have been dispatched. Back on the main left-hand menu, you can look for fire and smoke maps, sit reports or GACC news and notes. If you haven't signed up for the hotmail list, you should. If you know of breaking fires or fire developments, we'd appreciate hearing about them. Ab.

Here's another: http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/goeswestpacus.html put it on quality 75%
highlight the animate button, and click on socal which will animate it for that southern area. You
can see the actual smoke from the 2 columns. It doesn't work in the dark!

Be safe, All.
Drive carefully!

Mellie

Maybe Soboba Fire in RRU or Paradise in BDU, both are new fires. Paradise reports structures lost. Ab.

Good info there. It's popping!

Jody

Yer welcome! Thank the dispatchers and firefighters who let us know. Ab.

www.azcentral.com/news/scanner.html

Click on either Phoenix or East Valley audio scanner link, then click the link there to the right,
either of the two titles below for streaming video:

Clips Lightning Fires Spread Firefighters thin

I-17 reopen as firefighters gain control of Sunset Point Fire

Last night 80 firefighters were pulled off the line due to high winds.
This morning there was additional lightning that may yield fires

Firescribe (another one)

Tahoe Daily (CA)
Wildfire burns east of Carson City: No structures threatened in Brunswick Canyon blaze

Anchorage Daily News (AK)
Fire edges closer to Fort Yukon

hazmat in the wildlands, AK firefighters beware
PCBs moved out of Yukon forest fire's way

USA Today (NJ)
Smokejumpers to check for Asian beetle

I heard the sheriff say on CNN that they had called in the "groundpounders" to help search. Ab.

fires in az, fire in nv, rumor of a cdf escape in socali.

can't wait. red bag is packed.

rarin to go

Since OT links to base pay, OT's probably also higher than it would be for Non-Top Earners for the same number of hours worked. There are many more non-top earners in any work force than there are top earners.

The CDF story that also doesn't get told in a listing like that is that the high earners with high OT are often those firefighters that are willing to step up and cover when there aren't enough firefighters on duty during an emergency. The captains that run the convict crews have to work overtime if their crews are needed to fight fire, else things could get veeeery interesting.

CDF also has people bailing their organization and going to city and county fire departments that pay more. I've also heard CDF has stations that are short staffed at times. Evidently the state bean counters figure it's cheaper to not fill positions and to pay OT instead, hence some inflated numbers.

Couple of last observations on the list... Everything gets thrown into the total that was posted, all the bennies, etc. And there's no comment on what they pay in earned income tax.

Just my perspective... That said, I heard from one kid who wanted a career with CDF (not in norCal) that those hiring suggested he get on with the FS and go to the FS Academy to get good training and experience. Hmmmm... doesn't seem fair. I was glad to hear that those going to the FS Academy have to work for the FS for a period of time to give back service for their training and if they drop out, they have to pay back the money for their training. Still, it's a curious mindset that was being fostered (by one person).

Mellie

BCT

Hi BCT, When asked in the past, Ab has done some research and "peeped" out on theysaid regarding the status of the CDF Helitack 404 Burnover Report. I just did some calling around again with your question and this is what I found out.

The report is moving along through the bureaucracy. The joint CDF and FS Board of Review met on May 11 and, as of Monday morning, it's in the hands of legal counsels for both agencies. After they're done doing what they do, it will be released. Not sure when that will be. Hopefully it won't be too long, although sometimes lawyers don't have one particular report at the top of their "to do" pile. Rest assured, though, it will be released.

You know what? I have no problem paying people for their services and time
but that website made me want to puke! A FAE/PM making $130,000.00 a
year and we have men and women getting their A # ^ ES shot off for $30,000.00
in fun filled Iraq. What the hell is wrong with this picture?!

LH

Those serving this country in Iraq and Afghanistan are not getting paid enough for the work they do and the risks they take. However wildland firefighters did not create that reality or set up the soldiers' pay scale. Please, Readers, let's keep the discussion here on a track that relates to fire. But I agree with you LH... Those who serve the USA around the world do us a great service. They have my thanks. Ab.

Todd

Just Curious in Washington, I left CA some years ago...

Thanks mom.
More showings:
The Weather Channel: MEGA FIRES & BATTLING MEGA FIRES
Monday, June 20, 2005
7:00 pm. EDT

Other Showings (EDT):

6/22 - 12 AM, 9 PM EDT or Pacific time: 9 PM
6/23 - 12 PM or Pacific time: 9 PM, 9 AM
6/24 - 7 PM or Pacific time: 4 PM
6/25 - 1 PM or Pacific time: 10 AM
6/25 - 4 PM or Pacific time: 1 PM

I looked at your crew photos but you know Matt I did not see you anywhere.
What gives? Oh, I get it you are the one with the camera resting in the lawnchair
with the cool one in the other hand. Glad to see you are alive and well in CO.
You guys take care and maybe we will catch you on the big one!!!!

Arlo

CDF T-95 from Mike Evans on AirTankers15 photo page.

On the AirTankers 16 photo page...

From MJ: "Ed Hollenshead's Team stopped this fire on my doorstep in 1990, the Bray Fire."
From John E, two nice photos of ATs and engines at Aero Union for the T-26 memorial.
From RA: "Photo of the new jet AT at Minden."

Oh and here's a note and a photo that came in a while back...
While on a non-fire related business trip, I found Nirvana... FB

I put it on the Logos 11 page. Click on the thumbnail to see their larger logo. The thumbnail doesn't do it justice. Ab.

Ab, had you post this awhile back, could you post again as a reminder to
folks? Thanks

TC

Thanks Mario. Nice flames. I put them on the Cedar Fire photo page. Ab.

Thanks, I put 'em on Helicopters 19. So many nice photos, it's great to see them posted. Ab.

Thanks TP. I put it on Helicopters 18 photo page. Ab.

Thanks, I put it on Helicopters 18. Ab.

backburn in AK black spruce
Chena IHC
AT retardant drop
AT retardant drop2
Bucket drop
AK SJ rookies 1993

SL

Nice ones. I put them on Handcrews 17, Airtankers 15, Helicopters 18 and SmokeJumpers2 photo pages. Ab.

Thanks, I put them on our Handcrews 16 photo page. Ab.

We posted this earlier in the month, but I don't see it featured on the Weather Channel website. Ab.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REMINDER:

Watch THE WEATHER CHANNEL
For the Premier of MEGA FIRES & BATTLING MEGA FIRES
Monday, June 20, 2005
7:00 pm. EDT

OTHER SHOWINGS:

6/22 - 12 AM, 9 PM
6/23 - 12 PM
6/24 - 7 PM
6/25 - 1 PM
6/25 - 4 PM

WHAT TO EXPECT?

• Educating the public in the many aspects of managing wildland fire.
• Introducing the role of fire use and other treatments in reducing the impacts of wildland fire.
• Emphasis on the impact to human life and property.
• Enlighten people on living with wildland fire in the wildland urban interface.
• Programs done in partnership between the Forest Service and The Weather Channel.

If you find this on TV, there may be some photos/videos of the Bear and French fires (norcal last summer) from theysaid contributors. Keep your eyes open. Ab.

Thanks, so the