re-emphasizing the fact that all four Southern California forests should be on the same page and collectively work together on such matters.

I agree, similar to when one retired Fire Chief and current Forest Supervisor on the ANF and other Forests are working on local pay raises, special pay and other benefits for Fire Employees they should include all of the 4 So. Cal Forests during those discussions. No Forest in So Cal should be working alone, however the trend lately seems to be to work on these issues in the shadows. Which is probably why no one Forest has been successful to date. If R-5 would like one big FAT Unfair Labor Practice, they only need to implement some kind of pay benefit/increase on one of the 4 So Cal Forests and exclude the other 3. We've only been doing special pay together to 18 years.

Lets work together people! And it starts with each of the 4 - Fire Chiefs, Forest Supervisors and Forest Captain Reps doing something as a TEAM!

Letterman

Normbc9

As Lori mentioned, we will be welcoming Ken home at LAX on Tuesday, Nov. 6 at, or around 1:30 p.m., barring any issues with his overseas flights. We’ll keep you posted if things change.

If you live in the area, please help us welcome back this awesome guy! Thank you to everyone who has pledged to Ken’s Run – you help us do so much with your support. It’s not too late to pledge a donation to Ken’s efforts.

Stay tuned for more Ken’s Sahara Run updates and for additional information for his WELCOME HOME!

Melissa Schwagerl, WFF

There is a Work Life Conference going on in Sac. right now. Speakers yesterday included FS Chief Gail Kimball, Randy Moore, Lee Brown (a motivational speaker), Marilyn Manning, a conflict mediator who talked about facilitating positive change. There was small group work. Leaders did not want to hear anything negative. Most I heard obliged. May be more info when it's over...

As far as the agency for a new fire organization. It can't be FEMA or DHS. They are not high reliability organizations (HRO) that have a history or an interest in Lessons Learned. Department of Homeland Security is anything but transparent. FEMA that is made up of rather few simple citizens without any particular training, even has people that stage its own bogus press conferences... It has simply been a conduit for dispersing $$ after all.

We need warriors male and female who are willing to take a tough look and learn lessons, from the groundpounders among us to the highest managers, without CYA. That needs to be a working procedure that we all expect and embrace to be everything we can be.

RK, otherwise unnamed please

Send a congratulatory or encouraging email, click the link below. www.4deserts.com/sahararace/rtpsrtp.php?SID=3&SBID=RC14 There's a dropdown menu - choose Perry, Kenneth C. and send him an email.

Some photos again:

runners (I think Ken is to the left, about 4th in and in the middle row with the tan cocky hat and quirky grin.)
white desert & stage2 in white desert
camels2.jpg & camel.jpg
rocks
stage2

Kenneth C. Perry Male <little USA flag> United States  06:47:56  08:47:59  07:37:28 07:18:05

Mellie

Donate to Ken's Run; it's tax deductible: Wildland Firefighter Foundation. See who's pledged/donated.

GAAS:873:07
For Immediate Release: Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Governor Schwarzenegger Directs State Agencies to Prepare for Forecasted
Weekend Winds in Southern California

In preparation for the forecasted return of Santa Ana winds beginning
this Friday, Governor Schwarzenegger today directed the California
National Guard (CNG), California Department of Forestry and Fire
Protection (CAL FIRE) and Office of Emergency Services (OES) to
proactively prepare for a new round of fires in southern California.

Under the Governor's direction, these agencies have developed an
aggressive, tactical plan to pre-position staff and assets in areas
facing a high fire risk, based on weather projected for Friday through
Monday.

"It's very important that we remain prepared and alert while there are
still fires burning in southern California," said Governor
Schwarzenegger. "This plan helps ensure that resources are strategically
placed and standing ready, prepared for whatever the weekend will bring.

"Our firefighters have done a tremendous job combating the blazes in
southern California. We are grateful for their continued dedication and
hard work in protecting our state."

CAL FIRE preparation for the Santa Ana winds threat includes deployment
of air tankers, tactical aircraft, helicopters, strike and dispatch
teams, and other assets to locations including Ramona, Hemet, Paso,
Porterville, Fresno, Victorville, Riverside and San Diego. CAL FIRE will
also deploy engine strike teams throughout the state, including San
Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino, Los Angeles County, Santa Barbara
County and Kern County. In addition, OES will position strike teams in
Orange and Ventura counties.

The CNG will maintain a deployed presence of 1,500 guardsmen and six
firefighting helicopters to support ongoing response efforts. The CNG
will place additional forces on alert to be recalled if necessary to
support future missions.

CAL FIRE continues to adjust staffing and equipment patterns in
preparation for the weekend. CAL FIRE oversaw the fire resources used to
address 22 fires in Los Angeles, Ventura, Orange, San Bernardino,
Riverside and San Diego counties that began October 21. Four fires are
still burning.

GGW

Ab has copied and pasted two replies to Gizmo. More are welcome.

Ocean of sand
30-Oct-2007 05:30:10 AM [(GMT-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada); Tijuana]

Sahara Race (Egypt) 2007

Today was a good day. I don't think that my time was really much better than yesterday, but from a morale standpoint, it was a good day.

The day took us into the most vast area of sand than I've ever seen. "Incredible beauty in absolute nothingness" was the term that came to my mind. But in all of this nothingness... there were butterflies. How they got here, and why, seems to be the big question amongst us all. They would flutter around the pink flags marking the course, thinking I suppose they were flowers.

Once we crossed through about 4 miles or so of this ocean, we began climbing a Dragon's back of sand-dunes. Up and down this razor back ridge of... yes, you've guessed it.... sand.

Oh and I got to spend a few moments scratching the ears of a camel. That was pretty cool.

Tomorrow should be another 30 odd KM day, starting out in more sand, and then maybe hardening up (the ground) towards the end of the day, and apparently ending at an Oasis, from which we will have unlimited water from a spring to do a wash before the big day.

I've gotten a few pics (my card is nearly full) but the staff photog is everywhere from the gore of the med tent to the night campfire.... to the Ocean of Sand.

Love you Hon. Kiss the kids for me.

Peace, KCP

Some photos, posted temporarily, from the racing website for those of you with dialup... Ken will have more when he's done.

runners (I think Ken is to the left, about 4th in and in the middle row with the tan cocky hat and quirky grin.)
white desert & stage2 in white desert
camels2.jpg & camel.jpg
rocks
stage2

You are nailing it Right On. Yes, the GAO and CBO (Congressional Budget Office) asked why is it costing so much each year and fatalities. We had our Best and Brightest Leaders put together the NFP with the assumption that those leaders would be around to implement the plan. Congress wants and needs numbers that mean something. Remember, they want to deliver stuff back to the home district besides smoke, mirrors, a shell and no pea.

The group that put the NFP together moved on and the New Chief said, "Can Do". Instead of re-assembling that group to develop a FPA and the IFPM, we got all new players. No ownership. Got to deal with other pending issues in land management. Now almost 5 years after several attempts to jump start these programs, there are another set of players.

Who's taken ownership? The only folks that I know are the ground pounders. They have done what has been asked of them with less and have gone beyond the call of duty. Forcing lunch, cutting staffing, reducing funding, consolidation, reprogramming, etc...... What a way to run a Land Management Agency. You want to find waste and abuse? Go to the top and work your way down.

Hugh, We came along during a much simpler time. It's "Complex" now.

-=RADAR=-

Spy planes, computers play key firefighting roles
www.pe.com
By KIMBERLY TRONE
The Press-Enterprise

Flying at 60,000 feet, a large unmanned jet loaded with computers and high-tech cameras has played a major role in helping fire officials from Lake Arrowhead to the Mexico border combat Southern California's wildfires.

The Global Hawk, about the size of a Boeing 737, is part of a fleet of at least five military reconnaissance aircraft that since Oct. 23 have been transmitting images used to find hot spots and assess damage.

The fleet also includes a Vietnam War-era U-2 spy plane and another unmanned aircraft, NASA's Ikhana

The planes, equipped with infrared cameras, GPS units and digital imaging computers, will be used to scout potential landslide areas once the fires are out.

Similar aircraft were used after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks as well as such natural disasters as the 2003 Cedar Fire in San Diego County and Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

But in natural disasters, they've never been used to the degree they are now being used in the war on the wildfires, said Cal Fire Capt. Mike Wilson, a mapping specialist and assistant fire marshal from Napa County. (click the link above for more)

The third stage of 23.6 miles (38.5 K) has been completed with Ken running it in 7:27:38. He accomplished this with the temps being 110+. Great going Ken!! Have you sent your email to Ken yet? It's easy and I know that Ken would love the encouragement. Tomorrow is the last "easy" stage (Stage 4, about 25 miles) before the runners start their 2 day stage of the course. Stage 5 is about 58 miles (~93 K) and competitors may race through the night into the next day.

Send those emails to help Ken get through this!

Lori

Ken had to get over massive sand dunes toward the end of today's run -- in the heat, no doubt it's quite wearing. Total distance he's run in the three stages so far: 71.2 miles (114K). Send a congratulatory or encouraging email, click the link below. www.4deserts.com/sahararace/rtpsrtp.php?SID=3&SBID=RC14 There's a dropdown menu - choose Perry, Kenneth C. and send him an email. I just did it again. It's incredibly simple to do. Join the support team. Simple. Ab.

Stage 3 complete!

Kenneth C. Perry Male <little USA flag> United States 06:47:56 08:47:59 07:37:28

Wendy

Go Ken, way to hang in there!
Donate to Ken's Run: Wildland Firefighter Foundation. See who's pledged/donated.

1. Political appointees to the Secretary levels of the land management agencies (USDA, DOI)*,
2. Political appointees to the Under-Secretary levels of the land management agencies (USDA, DOI)**,
3. Political appointees to the Assistant Under-Secretary levels of the land management agencies (USDA, DOI)**, and
4. Political appointees of the Agency Heads of USFS, FWS, NPS, BIA, and BLM ***, and
5. Senior Executive Service (SES) "employees" serving in key subordinate staff positions and having to answer to #'s 1-4 above and having SES requirements as part of their jobs.........
6. People being "groomed" for positions 1-5 (above) that have no clue about the complexities of the federal wildfire problem and program.... but have a chance of being salvaged as the Forest Service says, "The Greater Good".

FEMA did a great thing..... they put a firefighter and former fire chief in charge.

Lobotomy

* Usually attorneys. Many times, former campaign contributors, lobbyists, or heads of companies or corporations with a financial interest.

** Many attributes of the above but with less influence. Many have served as "Professional Staff Member" or analyst positions with either Senators or Representatives in key positions of "oversight", or those that helped in policy direction, or election activities.

*** Folks who were groomed for their positions and won't talk out when programs are circling the drain. They report to "*" and "**" above.

Those in positions #5 and #6 above have a chance to make a change and break the bureaucracy to meet the Agency missions..... the intent of Congress....... and the intent of the American people.

P.S. - Hugh, great to see you back talking about "Swiss Cheese" and in the community. I still disagree with you that the causal chain starts with the individuals act or omission though..... and HFACS isn't Swiss Cheese..... Dr. Reason's "Swiss Cheese" model was always intended to build a better 'cockpit'....... 'pilots' will always make human errors, AND IF the cockpit around them is inherently unsafe, dysfunctional, or not meeting the need of the flight mission...

On another note: Those who might be helping the kids cope with the socal fires, here are a couple of good resources:

Helping Children After a Wildfire, Tips for Parents and Teachers

Responding to Natural Disasters: Helping Children and Families. Information for School Crisis Teams.

Mellie

You've asked a timely question. As a retired Red Trucker, I think the Agency responsible for fighting fires should be a Fire Department with Resource managers as technical specialists, not vice versa.

You asked for opinion... in my opinion you saw such an Agency functioning last week in Southern California. The evacuation of almost a million people and the handling of Qualcomm Stadium was not an accident. In some areas, such as Los Angeles and Orange County, the local or County Government were able to provide services while in San Diego, CDF and local Fire Districts were the providers and on Federal land, the USFS and the Military lead the fight. The amalgamation of agencies is Southern California is a result of many years of working together on a common problem.

You're seeing a similar situation develop in the Reno/Tahoe area, where the Sierra Front organization is fighting more and more interface fires.

The leadership and many of the rank and file of the USFS has resisted change, but change is coming. Changing climate and populations will require different strategies and tactics. Other factors such as the introduction of OSHA or even Unionization will force change.

If the USFS or any of the Wildland Fire Agencies cannot change with the times, they will be forced out or into the second seat by an Agency capable of providing those services.

viejo

I don't think that having ANY PART of the Federal Government being "in charge" of a National Fire Department is wise.

• There are far too many different areas of this country with their own fuel types and inherent problems associated with them.
• Weather patterns are far too different for one part of the nation to understand what another's seasonal expectations are.
• The overwhelming bureaucracy that comes with such a tasking is self defeating and will gobble tax dollars for years prior to it ever becoming a reality.

Time, effort and funding would be better expended on having the State's recognizing each other's strength's AND weaknesses and adopting a nation wide mutual aid/training/response... but isn't that what ICS was supposed to be all about?

Some States have accomplished this but there are still far too many who chose to disregard the system and as such have fallen behind in their attempts at modernization.

Perhaps we should take the lessons learned from Katrina and DEMAND that all emergency agencies that serve the public's safety come up to date and adopt the recognized ICS.

Now THAT would be a good start for the Federal Government if it wants to help improve our nation's fire fighting forces.

COPTER 100

It would be interesting to see the original IFPM-created rating scale. The skew is likely inherent in complexity of the types of lands/locations the Forest Service oversees. I noticed the FS has the most units with 112 of the 383 units, the BIA has 87, the NPS has 70, the FWS has 68 and the BLM has 47. (My numbers are off by 1 unit too high, go figure.) Ab.

You ask what federal agency should be in charge;
I don’t see a good candidate.

• The Department of Homeland Security is a Franken-bureaucracy soon to collapse under its own weight and the weight of public expectation.
• FEMA is not and never was a response agency; it’s a funding vehicle.
• The USFS and BLM, with all due respect, are too … geographically defined to effectively fight interface fires.
• Local resources (I include paid, volunteer, and contract resources) are vulnerable to local politics which make it difficult to enforce consistent quality standards.

I’m going to display my local prejudices and say that the answer isn’t going to come from the federal level, not in terms of a firefighting force; the firefighting forces are going to have to be local, to have local awareness of conditions and politics.

I think that federal resources will have to come as supplementary resources, to ensure quick and efficient funding of local firefighting efforts, and to supply specialist personnel and equipment. Federal resources are also going to have to step in and ensure uniformity and best practices among interface departments.

Right now, the major force protecting best practices and standards for structural firefighting is the ISO, which is a private organization. NFPA approves equipment and writes best practices, ISO, through their rating system, enforces them. ISO ratings control funding, but most funding, through the current grant processes, comes as the result of self-reported behaviors. There is no federal fire department inspection apparatus. I think that would be a good first step; not a federal firefighting force, but a federal fire department administration, to enforce compliance with NFPA standards and ensure accurate reporting for funding purposes. I think that would go a long way to evening out the quality and interoperability of interface resources.

Nerd on the Fireline

P.S. I have escaped from academia and the Pacific Northwest and am now back in the corporate world, in the northern Great Basin. I see miles and miles of charred sagebrush on my way home from work every day, and I am very much looking forward to next summer. Here’s to the good fires…small, remote, just complex enough to be interesting and fought safely and efficiently with good friends and respected colleagues.

Glad you're back Nerd. Ab.

From White to Black
29-Oct-2007 04:18:51 AM [(GMT-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada); Tijuana]

Sahara Race (Egypt) 2007

, so Okay, we are still having difficulties with the satellite hook up, and I just lost a longer blog. So, I am going to make this fairly quick.

It's day 2. 26 miles today (21 yesterday). This place is absolutely incredible. They should have pictures and films on the website soon. It is HOT! And today there was no wind, so it was just brutal.

At check-point 2 one of the volunteers, a kid named Dave came up to me and said he had a message for me from Tom Harbor. Huh? Turns out they go to the same church. Small world...even in this never ending place.

I'm getting pretty banged up. Feet are going to be hamburger by the time it's all over, I'm sure. The quest now is simply to see the Sphinx. However I can get there.

I've got to let some of the other competitors get in the blog site, so I'll get back on soon.

I love you Hon. Kiss the kids for me.

Peace, KCP

Ken said to take messages from his blog, so I have. Ab.

• the SoCal Firestorm, about
• firefighting connected with natural resources and natural weather forces, about
• firefighting connected with ever-increasing numbers of structures on the interface that are their own fuel type, about
• the (potential) increase in frequency of fires associated with drought, bug kill and climate change (whether in the West or in GA) and about
• America's needs for an easy-to-mobilize, efficient interface structure and wildland firefighting force.

What would be the ideal firefighting force be that could provide for our emerging needs as a nation?

Specifically:

• What federal agency would those firefighters come under the auspices of?
• What systems would need to be in place so those forces & that agency could cut through the bureaucratic hurdles to fight fire on the interface of cities and communities across the country?
• What other federal, state, county and private forces -- like military aviation -- would we need to draw on at the drop of a hat?
• How would such cooperators be trained and equipped regarding communication, etc? Would military cooperators be required to have fire specialists on board?
• Would there be a branch of these fire forces that handled any large emergency? Is NIFC the best federal organization to be providing, training and funding fire forces that we are coming to need?

Most of you know my blood runs green and I come from a natural resources background before my stress psychology background, but I think we need to be asking and exploring answers to these questions.

At the moment, this is what's been going around in my head.
If we get off "turf" differences.
If we get off state or location differences.
If we get off politics and media and the blame game...

What would our ideal firefighting force or incident managing force look like? What can we do to create that?

Mellie

Ken stage 2

Kenneth C. Perry Male <American flag> United States 06:47:56 08:47:59

stage 2 was 26.1 miles, in the blistering heat!

Wendy

If you want to send a congratulatory or encouraging email, click the link below. www.4deserts.com/sahararace/rtpsrtp.php?SID=3&SBID=RC14 There's a dropdown menu - just choose Perry, Kenneth C. and send him an email. I just did it again. It's incredibly simple to do. Join the support team. It's easy. Ab.

Ken has finished the second stage with a time of 8:47:59. Way to go Ken.

Don't forget to send those emails everyone!!!

I hear tell that the temps were really scorching on this stage. I guess it's a good
thing that Ken likes to run in the heat! :-)

Lori

Run, Ken, Run.
Donate to Ken's Run: Wildland Firefighter Foundation. See who's pledged/donated.

Radiant Heat vs Firebrands

Ab, here's a 9 minute video of several large houses -closely packed -going up in Green Valley on the Slide (Arrowhead area) fire.

It's clear that to the fire, houses are just another fuel type and that even a pile of firewood along the road or in the driveway is a potential problem for carrying flames. It's also clear that as the other videos showed, houses can withstand a lot more heat before igniting than human beings can. The photographer lets you know how hot it is and when he has to move back.

At some point a red engine comes in and the firefighters decide which house to try to save.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZEd7rD3Mw

roadrunner

(Sahara Desert, Egypt) The Sahara Race got underway today at 08h30 as 73 international competitors took to the sand in epic fashion -- camels yawping and drums beating – to start stage one of six of their 250-kilometer journey. Their first stage was a 21.5-mile-long leg that meandered across white stone bolder fields and long stretches of beige sand. (snip)

<one leading runner said> “It was good, especially to start, but then it got hot” (snip)

During the afternoon the racers each took their turn coming through the four checkpoints, then heading toward the finish line, with many running out of water during between the second and third sites due to the excessive heat. (snip)

“It’s not like we train for this sort of thing in the UK with our weather,” said Crispin, who took fifth overall, sitting in the new camp which has been relocated to the heart of the White Desert. “It was hot out there.”

It is easy to email Ken. I did.
I hope he has electrolytes to mix with his water.

Can anyone point Ken out in this photo of Sahara Racers? Where's Ken?
(for comparison, here's Ken leaving socal with all our pledges/donations)

Mellie

From Wendy:

Ken finishes stage 1

> From the leader board: Ken finished the first leg (I don't know how many
miles it was!) and is in 35th place. Keep sending in those emails!

www.4deserts.com/sahararace/rtpsrtp.php?SID=3&SBID=RC14

35 Kenneth C. Perry M United States 06:47:56 status: active

Good news, Wendy and Lori. Readers, if you want to send a congratulatory or encouraging email, click the link above.

There's a dropdown menu - just choose Perry, Kenneth C. and send him an email. I just did it. It's incredibly simple to do. It would be great if we sent him a bazillion emails tonight and every night. Motivation counts for a lot in the desert and on the fireline.

I looked and here's the poop on mileage for Stage 1:
21.9 miles // 35 kilometers

Run, Ken, Run! Ab.

I wonder how long it will take IFPM to also go the way of the Dodo Bird, much like FPA. Both programs and associated models never came from the wildland fire community. Both programs added to the confusion and eventual bankruptcy of the federal wildland fire program.

The IFPM complexity exercise was used to determine minimum grade levels. Having worked through that for my unit I would be very surprised that most of the federal land management units in the west did not rate as medium or higher. I can't access the IFPM web site (FS systems appear to be down) but I recall that what lead to this was the need to have highly skilled "wildfire" management organizations for the federal land management agencies. This was identified as a critical need for firefighter safety following the South Canyon fire. The 14 key positions were identified by the "wildfire" management staff of the federal agencies. These were the same people that wanted to use S-courses for college credit. Unfortunately the agencies overstepped their bounds and where trumped by OPM on the S-course issue (who rightly or wrongly has authority over such matters) .

While congress ended FPA, it also said "Try again" and has not relented in its mandate to the federal agencies to come up with a common budget allocation system. One briefing paper I saw said congress wanted a system on line for March 2008. Current options they are using; 1 a system developed by the USFS, 2 another developed by the BLM 3 a hybrid of either of these two or 4 a completely different critter.

FPA was a train on a track to oblivion many of the folks out at the local and regional level knew it. It took 3 years (and millions of $'s) before reality stopped that train.

IFPM continues to cause consternation but I think history will show that for the most part it was a positive step. It will continue to evolve and as it runs into realities. I still predict the labor lawyers will make out very well when the 2009 deadline hits.

FPA and IFPM may evolve but they will not go the way of the Dodo.

Side note - Thursday afternoon resource orders for engines made it all the way to eastern area. Don't recall that happening before in October.

Midwest FMO

Normbc9

--- RacingThePlanet <info @ racingtheplanet.com> wrote:

>> To: desertrunnergirl @ yahoo.com
>> Subject: Sahara Race (Egypt) 2007 Breaking News
>> From: RacingThePlanet <info @ racingtheplanet.com>
>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:15:19 -0700

---------------------------------

Stage 1, Oct. 28, 12h40: Andrew Murray of Scotland
crossed the finish line in first place under 4 hours.
Sandra McCallum of Canada placed first in the women's
division. All but four have now crossed the finish
line (the rest are expected shortly). [Satellite
communications were down for the majority of the day,
but are expected to be fully operational on Stage 2.]

Donate to Ken's Run: Wildland Firefighter Foundation. See who's pledged/donated.

Narrative

A wildland fire was reported near Santiago Canyon and Silverado Canyon at 1755 on 10/21/07. .........

The whole thing is posted on the hotlist...
www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?p=12387#post12387

Interview with Jack Cohen, Fire Sciences Researcher, Fire Sciences Lab, Missoula, Mt.
Radiant Heat Versus Firebrands (embers)
Very interesting. Ab.

Inside the Running Springs Fire
This is on Wilderness Rd near Hiway 18.
Choking smoke, searing heat, zero visibility.
Mandatory evacs in this area really are warranted. Without protective fire gear this would be deadly.

Running Springs, California, early Tuesday October 23 2007.

Video at
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJlhdaAuTvE

Story at
http://apocheirs.blogspot.com/

The complexity analysis related to and completed for IFPM not FPA. Units
were either low, mod or high. I think all R-5 forests were classified as high.
I cant recall a complexity analysis development (low mod or high) with FPA.
However it's been a year since I pushed the any FPA buttons.

Letterman

Burned firefighter anticipated dying
www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071027-9999-1n27fighters.html

Good article. Only part that doesn't quite jive with my notes from e-mailer is that the FS helo pilot (H-538) that flew out the 3 burned firefighters and 2 residents didn't find Pikop later, although he did transport him. Another firefighter found him. My best wishes for recovery. It is good to see a picture of Andrew. Ab.

I may be incorrect. I do not have my notes available, but if the complexity analysis was any
part of the the program that was supposed to replace NFMAS, it was a costly, dismal failure.

Mellie

Blazes on the New Frontier

By Steve Pyne
Sunday, October 28, 2007; Page B01

It takes only a whiff of smoke for it all to return. Sensations deeper than memory. The streaks of flame. The throb of heat. The gusts of smoke, twisting white and black like exhausted whirlwinds. A rush of adrenaline that can blow your head off. A fatigue so profound that it can rearrange your chromosomes. The sense of a world in such commotion that it seems to slow.

The big fire.

Most fires aren't big, and most wildland firefighting is a world of routine jobs and small blazes. It's a life of coming to know a place through its fires as a naturalist might know it through its flowers or mammals. In the deep backcountry, away from lodges and roads, the chief skill is just finding the fire -- a smoking snag, a smoldering stump. Only if that first attack fails does the firefight scale up into a campaign that resembles nothing so much as the moral equivalent of war. It's an intoxicating life, full of flame and fortune.

(for more, click the link)

Still Out There as an AD

There was once a respected institution that protected public lands in Southern California called the US Forest Service. It had a premier firefighting force that was admired the world round. They stopped fires and saved lives.

How things have changed. It took longer than it did during the Cedar fire, but the finger pointers are at it again.

The US Forest Service is now blamed for causing all these huge wildfires by putting out the “little ones.” Shame on them! Didn’t they know they should have just let them burn until the flames were about to threaten some valuable asset?

“Because we've had fire suppression all these years, all we have left is huge areas of equally old chaparral,” said Michael Barbour, a professor at UC Davis. “That's why these fires are so big. There is no patch of recently burned chaparral to stop it,"

Odd isn’t it that huge portions of the Cedar, Paradise, and Otay fire scars from 2003 re-burned in the Witch and Harris fires in San Diego County this past week? Dang firefighters! If they just hadn’t suppressed all those grass fires over the past four years these flames would have been nipped in the bud. Wait! Most of that land was under municipal and state jurisdiction. So it’s the CDF’s fault for putting out all those little fires! Stupid little firefighters trying to fight fire.

“How much longer is this society going to continue to believe that they can stop fires with their Tonka toys?” says Richard Minnich, a geography professor at UC Riverside.

Tonka toys? Men and women risked their lives trying to save homes and lives over this past week. Signs on street corners say “Thank God for Firefighters!" And yet, some continue to heap disrespect on those whose only desire is to help others.

Thanks to quick thinking, government agencies pulled off some awesome evacuations in San Diego County. They had learned from the Cedar fire that wind-driven fires can prove to be very deadly.

"Some people believe that horrific brushland fires are wind-driven events. They are wrong,” says Tom Bonnicksen, a retired (looking for a new job) professor from A&M University.

The fact that repeated fires in the same area have caused ecological disasters throughout many areas in California shrublands is known by firefighters, but somehow has been missed by these professors.

"Science shows that brushlands are resilient, no matter how often fires burn or how hot the fire,” Bonnicksen said during another one of his enlightened moments. What kind of science is this guy looking at?

I for one am sick and tired of having professors who have never been on the fireline, much less bothered to check their conclusions with those who have, spitting out press releases and pandering to the press after every fire in order to get their name in lights. I’m sick and tired of hearing these professors bash the US Forest Service for doing its job over the years. And I’m sick and tired of hearing these professors twist events and science to conform to their pet theories.

I’ll really feel sorry for these guys if they spout off one their self serving, ego-gratifying, financially lucrative opinions about fire in a meeting I happen to attend in the future. My days for being diplomatic are over.

jimhart

Thanks Debbie. Ab.

--- RacingThePlanet <info @ racingtheplanet.com> wrote:

>> To: desertrunnergirl @ yahoo.com
>> Subject: Sahara Race (Egypt) 2007 Breaking News
>> From: RacingThePlanet <info @ racingtheplanet.com>
>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:45:32 -0700
>>
---------------------------------

Pre-Race, 10.26.07, 19h41: The athletes arrive at Camp
1 after a 7.5-hr drive through the desert!
Anticipation grows for an 8am start time!

Wendy is getting official emails from the group that organized and supports Ken's run. Excellent! Ab.

RacingThePlanet <info @ racingtheplanet.com> wrote:

>> To: desertrunnergirl@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Sahara Race (Egypt) 2007 Breaking News
>> From: RacingThePlanet <info@racingtheplanet.com>
>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:30:42 -0700
>>
---------------------------------

Pre-Race, 10.26.07, 10:29am: 73 athletes completed
check-in and are boarding a bus for the Sahara Desert.
Race starts tomorrow!

RUN KEN RUN! Donate to Ken's run. Donations go to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. See who's pledged/donated. Hop in and contribute, folks.

We need the WFF. Bad things happen to good people. "There but for the grace of god (or the fates) go we." Our families deserve to have their way smoothed, heaven forbid, if such an event occurs. (I just wrote the response to the post below, which certainly brings the reality home to me...) Ab.

Morning,

I'm still on my crusade to get the WFF info out to the public for donation solicitations.
In reading "they said", you reference knowing Al and that he now works for NBC News SW Bureau.

Would it be possible to ask HIM to spread the word?

Good luck, keep up the great job.

PS - Are there ANY general updates that can be provided on the condition of the burned firefighters? Initial reports said critical, with inhalation burns. Don't need/want names - just concerned & hoping for some good news...

Thanks

capellocpa

Hi capellocpa, thank you for getting the word out in support of the Wildland Firefighter Foundation (WFF). Thanks also to Sbrrymom. I'll try to reply to your emails today.

Regarding our burned CalFire comrades, you're not the only ones asking. Here's what I know.

I did hear from some firefighter friends that the four that were burned over on the Harris fire were transported to the UCSD burn center.

One female and one male are critical condition with lung burns. They were in induced coma to allow best healing. I believe they've been taken off the coma-inducing drug, perhaps yesterday or the day before. I would like to know how they're doing now.

The other two who are not critical but will be a time healing... One (Capt) has 1st degree burns to his face and 2nd degree burns to his hands. The other, a firefighter who has worked as a firefighter for less than 6 months, has 2nd degree to parts of his face and 1st degree to back, elbows, legs. My thoughts and prayers are with them and with those who helped rescue.

Our great thanks to the WFF for its presence and constancy in support. Kudos to CalFire which does a great job with supporting their own and the families as well.

Ab.

I have been with the fire community since 1974 as a forest service fire fighter, prevention and recreation tech, currently a member of one of the CIIMTs. I did not work the Firestorm of 2007 in southern ca this time because I did not want to lose my house a second time. I was under mandatory evacuation for sometime, but refused to let it happen again and did everything I could to save it, and it worked.

Now to the meat of the subject. We all sing the praises of the fire fighter, but nothing is said of the dispatchers of CNF and Monte Vista, I had 2 scanners working non-stop for 4 days. The people of dispatch did an outstanding job of reporting and organizing an attack on several incidents at the same time. Good job and may you get some much needed rest before the next siege.

A Dollar Short and a Day Late

Thanks to all the Dispatchers out there, often unrecognized and under-appreciated, but ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to the firefighting effort, and often de facto playing the role of IC in their allocation of resources in the breaking stages of IA. Ab.

No kidding. Good job. And thanks Kellie for your photo to be in the 2008 Wildlandfire Calendar. Ab.

The fire made pretty good runs today. The on-shore flow is in full alignment with horribly dry and dead fuel beds (Oak Croak and drought) and steep canyons. The containment box currently set is rather large. They even have double letter divisions being set up. There is a mild off-shore event possibly coming Sunday and Monday which could blow this back down canyon at the affected residential neighborhoods. Santiago Canyon residences had a mandatory evac order today and the Holy Jim Canyon could become problematic if the wind event materializes.

As of now, it is heading uphill trying to slop over into Riverside County above the city of Corona and communities south. The biggest problem with this is the history of these hills and incredibly unpredictable winds. There have been firefighter fatalities on the “Elsinore Front Country” due to these conditions. So firefighter safety has been a huge issue for the command team and they are taking it very, very seriously. They actually pulled all units off the main divide road (divides Orange County from Riverside County at the top of the mountain) last night due to extreme fire conditions and basically said, we will see what the damage looks like in the morning.

That is it for now…

CC

Hotlist on Santiago Fire

Lobotomy, the visit you paid to the burned firefighters from the Harris fire at the UC San Diego Burn center is truly appreciated by us. The WFF is an organization that shares what it has when it can to our brothers and sisters who may be well cared for but the personal touches like this are sure a morale builder for those injured and their families. ALSO, to those who saw to it that those four firefighters were sent directly to a burn center; KUDOS for a job well done and some very accurate decision making! Your quick thinking hastened the qualified specialized medical attention they needed so badly. If we all stick together and support each other we can all make a difference.

Thank you WFF!

Normbc9

These were the CalFire firefighters who were burned over on the Harris Fire. Thank you for visiting them. Ab.

Haw Haw on the Hawaii. Ab.

Are you saying indirectly that you think all the South Zone forces will be reduced? Ab.

Could we put this message from Wendy on TheySaid? I think it would be great for Ken
to see all the support he has out there.

Thanks,
Lori
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As you know, Ken is in Egypt right now, just a couple of days away
from the start of his big 150 mile run through the Sahara Desert
with Racing the Planet!!

The runners are able to receive emails each night, received at each
camp and then printed off and handed out (kind of like getting a
care package at summer camp!!). Here is the link to send Ken an
email:

www.4deserts.com/sahararace/rtpsrtp.php?SID=3&SBID=RC14

There's a pull down menu - just choose his name and send him a
note!! I think it would be great if he could gets lots and lots of
emails each evening. I know it would be very motivating and mean A
LOT to him!!

So send Ken a daily email!! Starting Sunday October 28 and ending
Friday November 2 - big stacks of emails for Kenneth!!

I'm no longer working on fires but like to hear what is going on from the ones who do, and see those pictures. Those flame lengths in SoCal were amazing. Also just happened on the fire shelter story tonite on NBC news, that's also amazing to see pictures carried nationally of shelter deployment, put my heart in my mouth.

Also tonite the PBS report was great, with the story including the morning briefing and giving credit to the extensive amount of information such as archeological resources to protect, and other info such as comm freqs (my old job) that were shared to crew bosses etc.

Good to see the attitude of professionalism, safety and enthusiasm continues.

Call me "Piemaker".

Glad you visit Piemaker. Heres the Hotlist thread on the Santiago Fire Deployment. Ab.

Another way the rich are different: 'concierge-level' fire protection

www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-richfire26oct26,0,3352683.story?coll=la-home-business

When Southland clients' multimillion-dollar homes were threatened, insurer AIG dispatched crews with fire retardant.
By Kimi Yoshino, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 26, 2007

RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. -- Bryce Carrier's cellphone rang at 3 a.m.: Help! The fire is almost to my house.

Carrier hopped into his heavy-duty red Ford F-550 and sped to northeast Poway, dodging fallen eucalyptus and heading straight toward the wind-whipped blaze. He arrived to find flames marching up an embankment toward the multimillion-dollar home.

Yanking out the hose in the back of his truck, he began applying Phos-Chek fire retardant along the perimeter of the property, the shrubs and the roof. When the flames hit the milky white liquid, they stopped.

Another home saved.

Carrier is a certified firefighter, but he doesn't work for a government agency. He's an employee of Firebreak Spray Systems, which partners with the insurance company American International Group Inc. to protect the mansions of the moneyed.

Click the link to read more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One article that summarizes the media hype over aircraft, as though that was the answer... Rules exist for a reason.
Firescribe

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21478621/
Bureaucracy hampered initial Calif. fire efforts
Rules kept firefighting aircraft on ground as devastating blazes took hold

In 2005 California Forest Service firefighters comprised about 28.5% of all federal firefighters.

CB, California Forest Service Firefighters do a heck of a lot of firefighting for California and for the nation. (Note that Pincha-Tulley's team (Ranch Fire) and Oplinger's team (Buckwheet Fire) also supported hurricane Katrina victims two years ago. Where did they come from? They came up through the ranks in California.)

You all have a right to be proud, as do CalFire firefighters, and the rest of our hardworking, firefighting civil servants from all agencies.

Thank you!

Mellie

Ab,

NBC Nightly news is working on a story for tonight on the burnover involving 12 members of the Orange County Fire Authority on the Santiago Fire. Incident occurred approx 1505 Monday 22 Oct.

We interviewed personnel involved in the burnover and the LA Times photographer who happened to be on the road below the site. She took a number of astonishing pictures of the event.

FYI
Al Henkel

Ab replied:

Yep, doesn't surprise me. We had names and info out here on the hotlist early on and had a number of inquiries:
www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?t=2253 Is it your NBC piece?

Al replied:

Yes. I also shot a lot of the material from Poway and Rancho Bernardo. Thanks.

Ab comment about Al Henkel: I "met" Al in 2001 when he was a photo journalist for the Modesto Bee. His son was a Groveland Hotshot. Al did the basic firefighter training and went out with the crew on occasion, if I remember correctly. Al provided some very nice photos then that have since been used by many in this community for training powerpoints, etc. Then he retired... and now he's "Bureau Chief/Producer NBC News, SW Bureau".

I'll be watching your show Al. Thanks for the heads up.

Seems as though there were SEVERAL SITUATIONS in which firefighters had to shelter in place or deploy fully or partially their fireshelters!!

Luckily everyone is safe.

Be safe out there!!
Know your 10's & 18's
Fight fire aggressively but ALWAYS provide for SAFETY FIRST!!

CM

Readers you can see a little version of the picture CM references on a link (says PHOTO) via the hotlist HERE.

CA-ORC-Santiago - (URGENT UPDATE)

As of 1:10 PM 10/26/07, the fire is within one hour of Silverado Canyon.
Orange Co Sheriff Deputies are attempting to evacuate remaining residents.

The Satellite Maps show hot spots all long the southern side of Silverado
and mostly at the eastern end of the canyon.

It's SO smoky where I am I can see the actual fire but the satellites and
cell phone calls are confirming the situation as well.

Be safe! Ab.

• Let's all remember that CalFire is not single-handily fighting every fire in California,
• Let's remember that they work 24 on 24 off and the feds (Forest Service, BLM, NPS, FWS, BIA) work 16 on 8 off. This means that in a 4 day period federal crews put in 64 hours of suppression while Calfire is on the line for 48hrs.
• Let's also not forget about the local/municipalities and groundpounders from all over the West and across the US. I have seen engines from New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, Washington, Oregon and I have seen federal hotshot crews from all over the country. Everyone is working long hours and doing what we can to give residents something to come home too.
• Let's not praise one agency over another.
• Let's not point fingers at one agency's tactics vs another's.

We need to work together because this is where we gather our strength and our true complimentary abilities come out.

Please all of you be safe, we have turned a corner but this is by no means over and the chance will remain for large fires and life threatening situations.

Small side note.
Daniel Yanez a fire fighter for the USFS Cleveland National Forest lost his home while on the lines trying to protect others. Please send good thoughts and prayers and remember that WFF and Redcross are great places to donate.

CB

Hi there CB. I watched the Gov and the Pres yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised when, before his speech, the Pres shook hands with a whole string of Forest Service crewmembers standing in front of a green engine -- Inyo NF E-32 (if more numbers, couldn't see the first one). Only after that did the Pres and his entourage go on to shake hands with other firefighters. The videographer did "good" in capturing the Pres shaking hands with FS groundpounders in front of the green engine. It was the first time I've seen that in all my years of watching. So in spite of, or maybe because of, the jockeying for position you experienced, the FS forces were acknowledged. CalFire, Orange County, LA County, Ventura Co, all cooperators, we need all of us working on containing these fires together.

I'm curious if anyone has a statistical breakdown on the number of fed and other agency wildland firefighters: Forest Service vs other fed agencies nationally; Forest Service in CA vs FS across the country vs other fed agencies; Fed vs states (CalFire, ODF, WA-DNR, etc. And how many private sector wildland firefighters. Sometimes I wonder who we are exactly. Ab.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MOMENT   OF  SILENCE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-57 Remembered
1200 hours

Thank you.

Memories:
www.engine57memorial.org/thecrew.html and
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2006/engine57.htm
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2006/eng57/dietrich-walker.htm

"This high performance team ... all kept working for the safety of the public and to raise the bar of professionalism for the United States Forest Service.

Our challenge now is to honor the memory of our fallen brothers, Mark, Jess, Jason, Pablo and Danny. To do this we're all going to have to work a little bit harder and be a little bit better, because Engine Company 57 raised the bar for all of us…..forever."

Norm Walker at the memorial service.

Each of us honor them by raising the bar in what we do every day.

Be safe.

Ab.

I have heard the same behind the scenes, that the work-rest guidelines have been stretched. But what do you do in a 36-48 hour IA situation with 60mph winds,? You certainly don't lie down for a nap. Resources were not available to relieve firefighters in the middle of the firefight. No doubt, other guidelines that were violated have to do with incident complexity and the fact that fires can go from Type 4 to Type 2 even Type 1 complexity in less than an hour under Santa Ana conditions with multiple agencies responding, public evacs, etc; Type 4 or 3 ICs are not redcarded to manage Type 2 or 1 complexity fires. But what do they do? Say, "oops, this is too complex for my level of training, I'm out'ta here" and walk away? That would be irresponsible as well and people could die. If someone was injured or died on their watch under the old "rules" applied by DOJ and OPM and OSHA, the IC would have to pony up big bucks for legal fees to defend him or herself. To me that's de facto "guilty" if you can't afford to prove your innocence.

There have also been problems with communication:. For example, couple of days ago only one 800 mhz unit was provided to an entire crew on the Santiago Fire and the batteries went dead after several hours. If I'm not wrong, there should be one unit for each 5 firefighters, has to do with span of control. Communications is key. LCES

And then the media is yelling that CalFire should relax standards and not have a CA Fire Agency observer flying with military units... Gim'me'a'break. First, military unit radios do not work on the same frequencies as fire command. We either all need to be on the same freq or we need a person along who can communicate. Secondly, some military air resources have worked fighting fire in CA. Some have not. How do military pilots know where and when to lay retardant or water? What if they inadvertently hit groundpounders?

There was one good interchange on the news last night. The CNN reporter discussing air resources kept trying to get the military general in charge of co-operating air resources to state something in a way that would assign blame to CalFire. The general repeated 3 or 4 times with HIS OWN careful wording and added that CalFire firefighters are the experts in the firefighting arena. Good for him. On another note, it's no wonder that we don't have all the recommendations from the 2003 Blue Ribbon Panel tied down. Everyone, especially the media, but also politicians, presumes they're the expert.

CNN has really fallen in my estimation. Anderson whats-his-name's "keeping them honest segment", what bullsh*t! The public hears that same cr*p over and over again and in their minds, it comes to be true. It's a form of brainwashing and they do us all a disservice. Firefighters and firefighter supporters, we need to keep pulling together because it's not done, the fires are still burning. Let's not be distracted because of the "blaming climate" the media is creating. (I think Anderson Cooper's producers would have been happier if Qual Comm was like The Superdome. Tell the story, make it negative, get the emotional response and hook the viewers... Sad.)

There will be lessons to be learned to further our readiness for this type of firestorm event in the future, in spite of the media and politics. Compared to 2003, I think we're doing much better. And we can do better still.

Congrats to Pincha Tulley's CIIMTeam 3 and Oplinger's CIIMTeam 4 on the Ranch and Buckweed fires, respectively. It's nice to have successes under our belt. Now for the rest. I wish you all success!

Carry on! Set the bar high.

Ab.

"If at all possible, I encourage every one to avoid being anonymous and become very active in the defense for Ellreese Daniels. He deserves it and so do all of the rest of us who continually put our families in jeopardy every time we respond to the call for action."

Ellreese Daniels isn't a criminal. He might be a f-up with a cloud that follows him with poor personal decisions and actions, but he didn't do anything that was criminal negligence or homicide in any actions in relation to the Thirtymile fire.

Hopefully he has a good attorney and friends supporting him. Ellreese got two big "strikes" against my continued support over the last year.... both strikes personal..... drugs and abuse of others.....something I despise....... so far, he has been cleared of both....... my patience and support wears thin.....

In any case, Ellreese didn't commit a crime during Thirtymile......

Rogue Rivers

"Winter conditions of snow covered fuels require that the ERC and fuel moisture graphs be temporarily discontinued. The graphs for this page are generated by FireFamily Plus. Weather station data imported into FireFamily Plus during the months of snow covered fuels does not contain all required information to generate accurate NFDRS outputs. This is due to missing Wet Fuels flag information in the imported FWX data and the FireFamily Plus program not being programmed to utilize the information imported using the FW9 format. Accurate values can be obtained from the Weather Information Management System (WIMS) - if the daily observation represents the snow covered fuels by properly "forcing" the Wet Fuels flag entry."

It appears the problem has been fixed in SoOps as the ERC and fuel moisture graphs are being updated again. Hopefully the "wet fuels" confusion doesn't need further explanation. In any case, the "wet fuels" forcing correction should never be applied to areas that do not receive snowfall...... and especially never applied to rainfall events, or days with increased RH.

I recommend that a SoOps Intel group be formed and chaired by the Intel Officer. Each individual forest, district, park, and CAL FIRE unit would be represented by their local fire behavior and fuels experts, and provide local expertise and knowledge in preparedness and response planning. A representative from NWS-San Diego, NWS-Oxnard, NWS-Phoenix, NWS-Las Vegas, NWS-Hanford, and NWS-Monterey, and a representative from the Riverside FWU would also participate.

On a bi-weekly basis, a fire behavior and fuels outlook would be generated with a minimum of additional work. The benefits would be an increase in firefighter and community safety, a better handle on fire preparedness needs in the local area, and a tool to quantify required staffing and/or draw down levels to support other areas or regions during periods of reduced fire hazard.

Lobotomy

From the Director:

All Cal Fire facilities will fly their flags a half staff today in memory of the crew of
Engine 57. A moment of silence will be observed a 12 noon today.

A little belated, however I thought I would follow up.

Vicki Jackson, thank you, very well done. We will be silent at 1200. It would of been great to hear from our FAM Director, however your direction seems to be the best for the families, the Service and employees.

Just a Hotshot - Your not just a Hotshot. More important than being a Hotshot is being a good person and someone who cares about other people. I'm sure your good at all three. Impressive write up. Just to close on your post, please do me a favor. Next time your on the Internet do a google search, type in: "MLK and things that matter": Find the match, think about what you just discovered and live by it for the rest of your life.

Letterman

So, "They Said" posters, the media and everyone else is stuck on the monday morning QB'ing and
what if games. What if the Marines had been called earlier? What if we pre-positioned thousands
of resources? What if global warming caused the fires to get bigger? I say: What if we had the
death penalty for arsonists? Most if not all of the recent fires were arson. The public, firefighters,
law enforcement, and the media should be blaming the ones who started the fires in the first
place ,not the people who risk life and limb to try to stop these conflagrations.

And if you are against the death penalty for arsonists, maybe you would support stump breaking
them with a lit fusee. They deserve nothing less. Can you tell that I don't like them?

How many of you have ever seen an established Santa Ana wind driven fire stopped by mere humans,
with or with out air support. We catch them after the wind stops blowing or when the on-shore
rebound winds blow them back on themselves and the marine flow brings in the higher rh's. By the
way, that is when the backfires actually work.

Anyone else out there surprised to see G.W. not blaming Al-Queda for the fires?

Dan-O

Got a call from a firefighter on a crew on the Santiago fire today. He said about 20 FBI agents were carefully working all over the place at the 3 sites of origin. Always better to hold the comments and work the scene... Ab.