Thanks, I added them: "IHC-->Fire Manager" Project Ab.

Please take the time to do the Jobs Survey. Can someone please contact the hotshot supts, captains, squaddies; the engine captains' group, division chiefs, etc to tell them to request that their firefighters do the survey. If not do the entire survey, could those organizations at least gather the numbers in house? I've heard Jay Perkins is retiring. More power to him. Fine man! Fine Fire professional! Does anyone know of other R5 FMOs that are retiring? Ab.

Order your Wildlandfire.com '08 CALENDAR! Ab.

We (USFS, BLM, NPS) have problems retaining employees because other Fire
Departments want these guys and gals due to their experience, knowledge,
leadership and training.... a no brainer. However, the Fire and Aviation
Managers and Washington Leaders of these agencies that I mentioned earlier
will not FIGHT to retain a single person. Someone please explain why? Is
it because they think that we are a "dime a dozen"? They can find any
person off the street to do our job? Whatever happened to PEOPLE FIRST?
We put Firefighter and public safety first on every incident, but when off
the firelines it doesn't appear that we're first. Someone PLEASE stand up
for your people, stand up for us just like we do for our employees here at
the ground level. Please remember what Colin Powell says, "Being
responsible sometimes means pissing people off."

GS-401. How much does the Forest Service pay for one person to attend this
training? How many years have we been doing this program? What TRUE
BENEFIT has our people came away with? I am just saying we are in a
financial crunch and are unable to retain our folks due to better pay at
other Agencies. Maybe we could use that money (TFM/401 programs) to
increase our pay and then maybe retain some of these folks instead of
spending so much of it on the 401 program. Another option is to get rid of
the 401 altogether (that probably opened a can of worms). By cutting the
program we save money that we put can to our employee salaries, benefits,
equipment, facilities, vehicles...

I apologize if I offended any person the is 401 or currently completing
401, I can assure that was not my intention. I, like so many others, want to
retain our outstanding folks. I have several friends that have left to
"greener pastures" and I hate to see us lose that knowledge, skill and
leadership.

Football Fan.

Riddle me this...
The purpose of this letter is to notify employees in the GS-401, Fire Management Series of the " NEW" Office of Personnel Management (OPM) qualification requirements which were effective on February 15, 2005.

Riddle me that...
Unfortunately, "WE DID NOT BECOME AWARE OF THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS" until early 2007.

How can this OPM qualification requirement which became effective in February 2005 be defined as "NEW"?
And then the "UNFORTUNATE" error of not becoming aware of these new requirements?
Only out of the mouths of bureaucrats . Looks and sounds like extremely poor staff work to me! And for something seen by some in this agency as "SO IMPORTANT" to future fire management programs.

Does the future circle the drain clock-wise or counter-clockwise?

The Riddler

Yep, results will be posted here. Ab.

I hope OPM didn't just destroy the fire program across the nation. Students at Humboldt State University (CA) now need 5 and a half to 6 years of going to school full time to complete their BA using traditional channels, because critical, required classes are impacted. You can't get into the classes on first try. To think a wildland firefighter, well along in his or her career, could take time off to take classes leading to a traditional degree is not realistic. I pointed this out some years ago when R5 was looking to bring people up to speed on the new DOI-created requirements. R5 got on the ball to help its fire-trained professionals jump through the academic hoops. Hopefully, there will be a fix on this new OPM problem, given all the years of effort that have gone into working out the kinks with Universities. I only know what's gone on in CA, not elsewhere.

What about others moving up in the fire organization and those in other regions? Are other region's fire managers screwed? Can we expect other regions' programs to go belly-up in 18 months?

Good luck on the OPM time frame, university folks are almost into finals and will be taking semester break soon.

Mellie

What a truly eloquent post.

With respect,

contractor

Helicopter marshaling pop quiz, Montana style:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ96LT-NabE

HAW HAW HAW HAW! Ab.

I'm sure a new day will dawn brighter tomorrow, but right now my optimism is at a career low. The redeeming factor throughout all the upper-level management failures over the years for me has always been the enthusiasm and tenacity of the quality folks in the ranks. Right now, I'm not sure I can hold my head high enough to meet their eyes.

Old Boot

SoCal CalFire

www.heraldonline.com/opinions/story/206790.html

Firefighters as spies
By Staff Reports · heraldonline.com FTP
Updated 11/29/07 - 12:36 AM

Firefighters have always been admired icons of public service, a reputation greatly enhanced by the performance of New York City firefighters on 9-11. Now, however, the Department of Homeland Security may try to turn big-city firefighters into unwelcome snoops.

Unlike police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel don't need warrants to enter someone's home. Homeland Security officials believe firefighters would be useful in spotting behavior that could indicate terrorist activity or planning.

As part of a program started a year ago, Homeland Security gave secret clearances to nine New York fire chiefs. Under the program, firefighters would be asked to look for signs of terrorist activity when they respond to emergency calls or inspect buildings. If the program is successful, the government hopes to expand it to other major metropolitan areas.

In defending the program, Homeland Security officials offer a simplistic cartoon scenario: Firefighters stumble across a room full of rocket-propelled grenades during a routine inspection.

"It's a no-brainer," said Jack Tomarchio, a senior official in Homeland Security's intelligence division. He thinks the police, the fire department and the intelligence community ought to know about that, and who could disagree?

But the notion of requiring firefighters, as part of their jobs, to spy on and report the daily comings and goings of American citizens is more troubling. Who would determine the limits of what gets reported to authorities? (click the link for the rest; this is an opinion article)

www.justculture.org/newsletters.aspx?id=8#2

An Examination of Red Rules in a Just Culture

Mellie

Mcleod

Another GOOD GRIEF! Let's hear it for a firefighter series. Anything else doesn't make sense! I hope some folks are writing in to Hank's Blog. Everyone trained here knows how to focus on "the what not the who". Please do so. Ab.

Thanks for that Fyr Etr. Ab.

Enclosed is a summary for each Region and Station of their on-board employment profiles including the results of the unit’s hiring during FY 2007. Results for FY 2007 and historical results from FY2003 through FY2006 have been posted to the HCM website: http://fsweb.hcm.fs.fed.us/workforce_planning/strategies_for_improving.php (FS intranet)

External Hires provide an opportunity to improve the skills and diversity of our workforce to better serve an increasingly diverse American public. In addition, Student Hires have proven to be one of the most effective tools toward this end by providing an excellent vehicle to add younger employees and the new ideas that they bring to our workforce.

Service-wide, we added over 2,100 new employees to our workforce in FY 2007. This is an increase of 24.5% from the number of external employees hired last year. This demonstrates that the Forest Service continues to hire from external sources at a significant rate. Over the past five years, we have hired an average of 1,879 employees per year from external sources. Agency-wide, we have made good use of the Student Career Experience Program (SCEP) with 32% of all external hires being SCEPs. Our external entry-level hiring also increased from 12% in FY 2006 to 20% in FY 2007. There is much variation unit to unit so I encourage you to also look at your own unit’s statistics and make the appropriate comparisons.

I encourage you to continue to set hiring goals for your unit, such as the number of entry level and SCEP appointments, and develop local strategies to meet these goals. There is no more important responsibility for the leadership of this agency than to ensure that we plan for and build a workforce that can successfully carry out the Forest Service mission, now and into the future.

/s/ John Y. Kusano (for):
KATHLEEN D. BURGERS
Director of Human Capital Management

Enclosures: (1) wfp-measures-fy07.xls

cc: Charles Barclay
John Y Kusano

You don't say. Good grief. The Forest Service is worried about hiring diversity but not about retaining experienced diversity. If you could see what I've seen from entering data from the survey, you'd be amazed how many emails came in from FF2s and managers with Hispanic names who are going to CalFire if they get an offer. I won't be able to track that informally now that the survey is auto-posted. Ethnicity and gender weren't the focus of our survey; firefighters are firefighters. But the current exodus is likely to take lots of Forest Service trained, skilled and very professional diversity to CalFire. Ab.

SENATE FIELD HEARINGS IN SAN DIEGO

FWFSA tells Senator Feinstein " The Forest Service fire program, especially in California is imploding and unless you and Congress listen to your federal wildland firefighters, understand the issues and take action, there will no longer be a federal wildland fire program in California and your constituents will pay 3-5 times as much as they do now to protect our Nation's natural resources in California."

These were the words of FWFSA Business Manager, accompanied by Sec.-Treasurer Jim Huston and BLM member Clay Howe to Senator Feinstein as they met after the Senate Interior Appropriations Subcommittee -- of which Senator Feinstein is Chair -- held field hearings in San Diego to discuss the recent fire siege.

Sadly despite repeated efforts, no firefighters, whether they were federal, Cal Fire or municipal, were included on any of the three witness panels which included an array of folks from Cal-Fire to OES to the Red Cross and the US Geological Survey, the State Insurance Commissioner and the Farm Bureau. Additionally, the standard compliment of local elected officials from San Diego and as far away as Orange County and San Bernardino provided oral testimony.

The clear focus was on San Diego City. Much was said about the lack of fire stations and personnel, despite the staggering growth in the area. It is a rather popular notion that San Diegans, as affluent as many are, simply aren't willing to pay for such services, having shot down several ballot measures in years to fund additional fire resources.

Cal-Fire's Ruben Grijalva and OES' Chief Zagaris testified. Sadly, the only "federal" voice was Mark Rey who at least was consistent... consistently misleading stating on the record that federal resources were "pre-positioned" prior to the first fire siege. We believe this to be, at best, inaccurate. As we understand it, the word from the R5 RO prior to the first siege was that there was no funding for pre-positioning. (It should be noted that "pre-positioning" was what the Forest Service said it was going to do all season long to ensure proper preparedness.)

We certainly are aware of the federal pre-positioning over the last couple of weeks along with the 24 hr staffing but we are hard pressed to identify what was pre-positioned prior to Oct 20th, acknowledging the fact that state & local resources were pre-positioned at that time.

Mr. Rey did get hit with a number of questions about the always-promised, never-delivered, Forest Service aviation plan. Further, there were complaints/concerns raised by local & state agencies about the protracted process of approval for a federal response.

Ultimately, at the heart of this hearing was money. The Committee touted its approval to expend hundreds of millions of dollars to the Forest Service for additional suppression costs as well as the obviously popular FEMA administered fire assistance grants.

Needless to say, State & local fire agency representatives as well as state & local government representatives who obviously stand to benefit, paid homage to Senator Feinstein for her recent legislative proposals to, among other things, increase FMAG reimbursements in some cases from 75% to 90%.

It is fascinating how most of the time folks want less involvement/intrusion by the federal government... except when they money jar is wide open.

Much of the discussion centered around the urban fire fight with little commentary about the wildland effort.

One congressman who attended called the proceedings "a dog & pony show" and asked the FWFSA to make sure he got "the real scoop."

Perhaps the most poignant witness was former San Diego Fire Chief Jeff Bowman who suggested that the hearing was unnecessary because all of the solutions were developed by the Blue Ribbon Commission after the 2003 siege, yet virtually no effort had been made to complete work on the recommendations. He quit as fire chief out of frustration.

Mr. Bowman, who was likely only slightly less candid than the FWFSA's Judd would have been had he been afforded an opportunity to testify, met with Judd after the hearing and they agreed to stay in touch and work together.

The bottom line for federal firefighters was that Sen. Feinstein directed her Regional Director James Peterson to work directly with the FWFSA to get the Senator up to speed on the issue and start looking at real solutions.

For further information, please feel free to contact the FWFSA at www.fwfsa.org or by phone at 208-775-4577.

About all i can help out with this question, Plumas NF, 3 dozers, TahoeNF 0 dozers, 1 contract
dozer usually during fire season "Sierraville" one contract water tender from Sierraville also.

Hope this helps out a little.

mike

Haw haw. MOC, here's some more information several firefighters sent in: Standard Firefighting Organization, 2005 (254K doc file). Thanks, guys/gals. Ab.

Readers? Ab.

As of this morning the Executive Leadership Team has entered the world of
"blogging." I want to thank the staff in the Office of Communications and
Information Resource Management for their work in establishing the
structure for blogging on the Forest Service intranet.

When we discussed this yesterday among the ELT, we admittedly were unsure
how unleashing a "leadership blog" might work. Much of our being unsure is
due to the fact that we really don't know what is involved in being a "good
blogger." But what we do know is that we want to continually seek ways of
staying in touch with Forest Service employees and providing a good venue
for employees to visibly and easily dialog with each other on major topics.

So, through the link below (and the use of your e-authentication password),
we invite you to get involved in helping leadership become familiar with
blogging. This first blog simply provides the opportunity for employees to
suggest how it might be used.

We have intentionally not made a big communication event out of kicking off
this blog. We would simply like you to pass this link on and invite
employees to participate. After a couple of weeks the ELT will assess how
it has worked and "go from there."

Thanks for giving this blog a look. Don't hesitate to post your comments
and thoughts.

http://apps.fs.usda.gov/roller/

Hank Kashdan
Deputy Chief, Business Operations

Not sure how to create a "fictitious name" but "Smokeygal" would be fun.
Anyways since Hank has opened the door for BLOGS...thought maybe could use
this as another opportunity for the Fire Pay and Recruitment Issues.

Smokeygal

I think everyone that wants to go over there and blog should do it. Good move for them, one that OA advocated 13 years ago. Ab.

hotshot7387

Volusia Co. Firefighter Killed in Training Accident

VOLUSIA COUNTY, Fla. A 30 year old rookie Volusia County firefighter was killed Tuesday morning during routine training.

John Curry was pronounced dead at 11:05 a.m. Curry was a member of Volusia County's Wildland Fire Team which was practicing power and chain saw use at the Volusia County Fire Training Center when witnesses said a pine tree fell on Curry.

"This is a tragic loss for all of us," said Frank Bruno, Volusia County Chair. "Our hearts are heavy and we extend our deepest sympathy to his friends and family."

The Firewalker Wildland Team was created in March 1995. Members, known as Firewalkers, consist of volunteer and career personnel. There are 38 team members and they have been conducting ongoing training, although only a portion of them were at the training Tuesday morning. (to read the rest, click the link above)

Condolences. Ab.

Welcome and thank you for taking the time to complete the Wildlandfire.com survey regarding the decision facing many federal agency employees on whether to remain with a federal agency or to apply for a position with other wildland fire suppression employers. Our objective is to gather information and present it in a clear and logical manner in the hope that it may be used in a productive manner.

Please complete each question and submit just one survey per person. To help avoid duplicate inputs we will log computer ip addresses, though they will NOT be made public. If you find any question too personal, feel free to skip it and go to the next question. The results of this survey will be announced on They Said It and the Hotlist when concluded. Thanks, OA

My thanks to Original Ab for creating this self-administered, online survey. It includes more options for you to share your views than I was recording in the original database and the auto-entry will reduce our data entry workload substantially.

If you already emailed your survey response to Ab (in the last 4 days) but would like to fill out a complete survey, you may; add your email addy or some other identifier in the comments section at the bottom so I can easily find and exclude your original emailed entry.

Readers, tell your friends and colleagues. Email them the link. Help us get the word out. The more complete data we have, the better to evaluate the situation. We haven't decided on timeframe, perhaps 2 weeks, so please respond as soon as possible. I know many people are taking time off.

Results will be reported here and to the Hotlist in aggregated form only. Your individual responses and identities will remain confidential. Ab.

1. The Forest Fire Staffs are experts in the protection of their forests, and known critical issues such as staffing and preparedness in their areas, and
2. The R-5 Intel Shop has their thumb on the pulse of what is happening in the weather and preparedness world, and
3. Conflicting goals of meeting fuels targets in some areas are affecting the protection of other areas, and
4. Decisions based on a flawed budget request process continues to set up local units to fail .

Many folks on the call would have responded much differently (as I would have), but all of you (FFMOs and RO SoOps Staff) showed a calm demeanor and only took it as another challenge that further "leading up" was needed to answer a really stupid question asked by someone above.

Anyone on the conference call knows what I am talking about. Folks can only "lead up" for so long before they bail a sinking ship without a qualified Captain leading the crew.

Rogue Rivers

P.S. - I hear that the SoCal forests just got lots of earmarks (short-term) with added fuels targets that must be met before the end of the fiscal year. One SoCal forest reports their fuels target is anticipated to jump to 18,000 acres of treated fuels with only ten months to complete it. A question of quantity to meet agency false targets vs. quality to meet the true funding intent of Congress?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> From: Predictive Services Newsletter, November 26, 2007

With the recent wildfires that occurred during October and November, the question now arises- When will fire season be over? Obviously our fire season should come to an end once significant rains begin to occur, but when will that happen? The latest long range outlooks suggest that southern and central California are in store for another drier than normal winter, although it probably won't be as dry as last year. Nevertheless the prospects for significant winter rains are looking grim.

Sea surface temperatures have been trending towards below normal in the equatorial Pacific region since September, and now current conditions suggest that a moderate cold event (La Nina) is in place. La Nina events tend to result in drier than normal winters in the southwest U.S.-but not always. In any case, this has been the main factor driving the long range seasonal outlooks which project below normal precipitation not only for southern California this winter, but also for most of the southern U.S. (see chart on the left). The current La Nina event is projected to last into early 2008 before moderating somewhat. Regardless, we have not gotten off to a good start precipitation wise as the Riverside area is already an inch below normal for the new rain year.

Current models continue to show a persistent amplified ridge over the eastern Pacific which, if this feature continues, will prevent any major storms from moving into southern California. Although this pattern does not preclude the area from receiving any precipitation, it simply prevents major troughiness from developing over the West Coast which would lead to periods of significant rainfall.

Unless this pattern changes, not much rain can be expected through the end of the year. So is fire season over? Not completely. While cooler temperatures and less daylight will mitigate fire activity and large fire occurrence to some degree, fuels remain very dry. And unless significant precipitation occurs over an extended period of time, there will continue to be the potential for the fire season to last in some modified form at least through the end of the year, if not longer.

Old photo of SP X2181, I think near Truckee 1940/50s.

Lots of water and might have put out more fire than it started.

Old LPF

Great old photo. The original is a pig of a tif file! Ab.

While not really a new concept, railway fire suppression vehicles are indeed changing for the better. Southern Pacific, which was bought by Union Pacific several years ago, had a complete fire fighting train stationed at Roseville and in Reno to fight tunnel fires in the Sierra snow-sheds. Several eastern railroads also had these unit trains.

www.wildlandfire.com/pics/equip11/firetrain.jpg
www.wildlandfire.com/pics/equip11/watercar1.jpg
www.wildlandfire.com/pics/equip11/watercar2.jpg
www.wildlandfire.com/pics/equip11/watercar3.jpg

Tom

R5 FS Firefighters,

Please hold off on sending in any more survey emails. OA is creating a self-administered online survey that takes only moments to fill in. We'll import the info you've already provided into the online survey database.

That survey should be up tomorrow early. We're working out the last bugs.

Please! No more emails! Wait until tomorrow.

The Abs.

Just an fyi.

On a recent conference call, we were asked when will fire season be over.
Here is just one perspective.

Michael J. Dietrich
Chief, Fire and Aviation Management
San Bernardino National Forest

Predictive Services Fire Weather Outlook Nov. 26, 2007 (700K pdf file)

Preliminary Summary Report (Blue Sheet) CA-LAC-255190 Firefighter Burn Injury (158 K pdf file)

Here are a couple of photos with some flames. This is Arizona Strike Team #1 (Alpha) at the Rice Fire, Fallbrook, CA in October 2007. Five Type 1 engines made up of Central Arizona Response Team members Apache Junction, Chandler, Guadalupe, Mesa and Tempe Fire Departments. These pictures are of a burnout operation we performed near a few structures we were protecting.

AZfirefighter

Thanks, I put them on the Handcrews 22 photo page. Ab.

wilnd

Huge water balloons to help fight wildfires
http://news.rgj.com
Raquel Maria Dillon
For the AP
Posted: 11/27/2007

SIMI VALLEY, Calif. (AP) -- William Cleary believes aerial firefighting could become child's play.

Five years ago, his son drenched him with a water balloon -- and got him to thinking.

"He was three stories up and I was walking, and he still managed hit me square in the head," said Cleary, a Boeing engineer. "I thought, why can't we be this accurate with water on fires?"

So he started working on a system to use giant water balloons to put out wildfires.

The NWCG approved the Skills Crosswalk at the meeting in October, 2007.
USFA is currently developing a press release/program notice to announce the
initiative. At a minimum the announcement will be posted on the USFA web
site soon. The repackaging of the training as indicated in the Skills
Crosswalk is under development.

FEMA Skills Crosswalk (990 K pdf file)

PLEASE Stay safe,
Keith, Bullard VFD (TX)

It is with deep regret that we advise you that a Firefighter with the Volusia County Fire-Rescue has been killed in the Line of Duty during training this morning. Initial reports are that companies were doing brush fire operations training when a tree fell, killing the Firefighter. The accident happened this morning at Volusia's Fire training facility located on near Daytona Beach FL. Volusia County fire investigators say the firefighters are part of a "fire walker" team, and were using power saws to cut down trees when the tragic event occurred. Additional details will follow. As always, our sincere sympathy and condolences to all effected-especially those directly involved from VCFR-and the Firefighters family.
Take Care-BE CAREFUL.
BillyG

We need info from all Forest Service firefighters, temp, seasonal or permanent

1. who have applied for the next CalFire Captain's hiring round. Please say if you have have received interview dates from them or not.
2. those who recently applied for Engineer positions.
3. anyone who is applying for or has has applied for CalFire Firefighter II.
4. those who have or are applying for a Firefighter I seasonal position.

Please include the following information:

• Grade (GS rating)
• Forest
• Module (examples: engine, hotshot, handcrew)
• position you applied for with CalFire (captain, engineer, FFT2, FFT1); if you're applying for positions as low as you need to go to get your foot in the door.
• any comments you feel like sharing (are you leaving reluctantly or happily, why you're leaving, what would make you stay, issues, priorities, etc).

Please tell your peers to email Ab or ask your peers and gather the info above from

• your module,
• your ranger district
• your forest.

I am working to make sure there are no overlapping entries and no database "rectangles" left blank. Complete data that records everyone who is applying would be best. Individuals will remain anonymous. Ab.

SK

Normbc9

Did you know that during Mr. Pena’s last year as FS on the Plumas,
he was summoned to DC to work on a special project for Mark Rey?
Shortly after returning to the Plumas he gets promoted to the Deputy RF
position for R5. Coincidence? I hardly think so. In my opinion he is
nothing more than a puppet for Mark Rey and the Administration.

Stoneboat

It sounds like the R5 Fire Hire timeline for the next round of hiring is out
and being circulated - with February 3rd as the last date to submit your
AVUE application. Referral lists will be created on February 4th.

Thanks,

Bethany E. Loomis-Hannah
www.LoomisHannah.com

Can you post this in your pics site, this is an UNUSUAL Firefighting Rig. It was built by BNSF (Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad) up in Spokane Washington.

it carries:

• 3,250 Gallon water tanks
• 500 Gallon Foam Tank
• Honda Pumps (1 on each end)
• Honda Generator hooked up to bright halogen lights for night work or smoky conditions
• movable water cannons mounted on a platform (1 on each end)

BNSF worked with USFS and Washington Dept of Natural Resources to make sure all fittings and hoses were compatible. They can haul it to the fire by train then park it and let fire personnel staff it.

Per BNSF they build this due to several fires started by their trains each year and wildfires threatening their railroad assets.

They are considering pulling this along during rail grinding ops each year when a lot of their fires start.

Mike

Different, interesting. I put it on Equipment 11 photo page. Ab.

First,
San Bernardino NF FAM = Class Act !
Proof again that the iiaa model works.

Secondly,
Anyone have information that during the Dec 10th meeting the group will complete
an assessment of turning over protection responsibility of NF WUI to State and
Local Gov?

Proof again the iiaa model works and this would not be a cost effective/productive
decision. If anyone knows about this and as some talking points, now is the time to
pull them out.

Finally,
If the Forest Service starts losing the Lobotomy's of this organization, you can just go
ahead and put a fork in us, because we're done!

ms

Check the acronyms list (link in center above) if you want to know what IIAA is. ms, I agree with you. Ab.

Lobotomy, good points. Ab.

For those who want some FEMA questions answered, you can swing 'em my way. I work for FEMA as a Community Relations Field Specialist (and was on the SoCal fires)...but my real background is wildland fire, and I am a PIO with national incident command teams.

-To answer the below question regarding rehab work down in Southern CA; please look up www.inciweb.org and refer to the SOCAL BAER teams listing. Click on the listing and look for the contact number. FEMA contributes financial assistance through the state via public assistance funding, but the SoCal BAER folks are the ones running the ground show.

Cheers,
Chelsea

Will do. Ab.

FYI,

Forest Fire Management would like to thank all of the Forest, BLM, and
HIA for the support resources assigned to the San Bernardino National
Forest during the recent wind events in Southern California. The Forest
had 44 initial attack fires, 4 structure fires with potential threat to the
Forest, and 2 vehicle fires into the vegetation that we were able to
utilize the additional resources to prevent these fires from becoming an
extended attack fire or a fire that required an Incident Management Team.

These additional resources have been released back to their respective home
units with the exception of the following resources still assigned to the
Slide and Grass Fires. Assigned Resources: S/T 3646C (MDF E-64, MNF E-42,
MNF E-34, TNF E-33, TNF E-42), Patrols SRF P-31 & TNF P-72. Released
resources have coordinated with our Expanded Dispatch, North Ops & South
Ops and their respective home units will be notified of ETA's home.

Rocky W. Opliger
Deputy Chief
Fire & Aviation Management
San Bernardino National Forest

Get your guys out there for some post fire PT? Ab.

The NWCG Leadership committee is seeking nominations for the Paul Gleason
Lead by Example Award. The award is open to any wildland firefighter or
group of firefighters and is presented in three categories: Mentoring and
Teamwork, Motivation and Vision, and Initiative and Innovation. For
additional information about the award click on the link:
www.fireleadership.gov/toolbox/documents/gleason_award_info.html.

Nominations can be sent electronically from the above link or hard copy
applications can be printed and mailed. The deadline for applications is
December 31st.

Any questions can be directed to John Wood at 530.226.2723

Thanks, Bethany I'll correct that in my post. I'm not expert or even knowledgeable in CalFire hiring, although I'm beginning to know more than I ever thought I would. Ab.

1. Pressure upon Angles Forest Supervisor resulting in the abrupt retirement of Don Feser.
2. Not allowing The Monterey Crew to attend the Funeral for a fellow firefighter this past fall.
3. Denying the FWFSA representation at the upcoming retention meeting in December.

Too bad we cannot apply the federal Three Strikes rule, now codified at 18 U.S.C. § 3559(c), the defendant receives mandatory life imprisonment; for acts to undermine the morale, recruitment, and retention of US Forest Service Firefighters in Region 5.

Does Mr. Pena not realize the following?

• The Land Management agencies combined have the largest fire department in the Nation with Region 5 having more firefighters than all of the rest of the nation combined.
• The more Pena keeps putting down the firefighters (opps Forestry Technicians), the larger the fallout will be when the uprising happens. With Pena in the middle of the storm.
• The mass exodus is upon us. A meeting during Use-Or-Loose Season, after the interviews have begun; is like putting a band-aid on a saw cut to the leg without chaps on.
• The FWFSA has such a vast representation of members that Pena may deny official access to the meeting, but the FWFSA will still be present.

I might not be the first person to post this information here on they said, but the more posts about this topic, the greater likelihood that staffers and congressional aids will see it a huge issue amongst Federal Firefighters.

Thanks Abs for hosting this site.

SRJS, Proud FWFSA Member

You're the first that has pulled all that info together.
Regarding hosting, you're welcome, buy a calendar or two and make us happy. It's easy! Haw Haw! Ab.

GA and FS Fire readers,

Sure, we can widen this tally. Why not... It would be good to have real numbers across the board. You will remain anonymous.

Bottom line... Tell your friends and colleagues to email Ab. We need the info from

1. all FS firefighters who have applied for the next CalFire Captain's hiring round and have received interview dates from them and
2. those who recently applied for Engineer positions. (Supplemental packets come out is January.)

In addition, I'll start another list to include seasonals/temps, anyone who is applying for or has has applied for CalFire Firefighter II and/or are also willing to accept a Firefighter I seasonal position.

CalFire applicants below the Engineer position, please email Ab your

• GS rating,
• Forest,
• Module (examples: engine, hotshot, handcrew),
• position you applied for with CalFire (captain, engineer, FFT2, FFT1 temp), and
• any comments you feel like sharing (why you're leaving, what would make you stay, issues, priorities, etc).

Seasonal or Temp hires don't count in OPM's calculations for retention -- although you make up more than 40% of fed firefighter staffing and you are  INTEGRAL  TO  THE  FIREFIGHTING  EFFORT.

I think OPM requires something like 16% attrition before they say there's a retention problem and move to address the issue. Go figure.

In 2005 or 2006 there were 4 or 4.5% losses in R5 because only permanent firefighters were included, while the temps/seasonals were excluded from the equation. I don't know what the numbers and percents are today, probably still well under OPM's magic % number. Seems like there is a problem with the OPM calculating system that should be addressed if the outcome is that we won't have firefighters to do the job during fire emergencies next season. (This could be a job for Congress.)

I am told CalFire has around 650 open positions as of 10/21. No doubt 80-85% of new hires will come from within their own ranks. However, they lack enough applicants that can step up into middle management positions and will be casting a wide net to fill them.

Congress needs to be educated and/or we need to figure out what will be left after so many of you decide ... "Should I Stay or Should I Go".

Ab.

PS. I'm hearing that all supplemental packets for Engineer/ FF II won't come out until January.

I agree that you should go to a higher level and continue to try and get in that meeting. Remember it was Feinstein and company who gave R-5 and the Forest Supv on the ANF 30 days to address in writing the attrition/pay problem within the Forest Service. This meeting was probably an outcome of the reply back to Feinstein. Has anyone seen the reply?

Secondly, I would recommend a FOIA of all written and electronic communications between R-5 RO/WO and any R-5 NFs to the Senator or her committee that relates to Firefighter/Forestry Tech pay/retention issues. This is an appropriate request under FOIA laws.

Lastly, if NFFE wants you (Casey) to help us/them, they will invite you as a representative/adviser for NFFE. If management continues to not allow you to attend, NFFE can and should file an unfair labor practice. Management cannot tell NFFE who NFFE wants at the meeting as a representative of NFFE. NFFE needs to hold firm.

Everyone needs to read the Pena "approved and updated" briefing paper on retention. I haven't seen it posted in here yet, however it needs to be seen by Firefighters and those representing employees at the Dec 10th meeting.

Letterman…….

I probably got it when I was enjoying the holiday. I get the message: Back to Work! I'll go look...

Here are two from the doc files:

Retention Briefing Paper from 9/26 (103 K doc file)
Retention Revised Briefing Paper from 11/13 (116 K doc file)

Ab.

Ab,

I think it might be beneficial to tally those who are applying for Firefighter II and
are also willing to accept a firefighter I seasonal position, as well. Showing that
some are willing to accept lower grade positions just to get the foot in the door
of Cal Fire and out of the Fed System may provide some good evidence of
retention problems.

For Engineer and Firefighter II there are no interviews, just supplemental packets.

GA

Ab,

You asked about the fire captain candidates being offered a job during the interview. That doesn't happen. The successful candidates will be place on a list by the ranking in their scores. The first ranks will be for CALFIRE folks only (theirs is a promotional examination) followed by the open list candidates. When all of CALFIRE candidates on the list have been offered jobs, the open list (non-CALFIRE) candidates will be offered jobs.

For the past several exams there have been far more openings than CALFIRE candidates to accept positions. This exam should be the same. The list probably will not be released until Spring, so hiring normally doesn't begin until March or April at the earliest, May or June has been when it was done in the past, which throws everyone behind the curve to staff crews and engines, to say nothing of what it does to the agencies that are loosing their employees right at the beginning of fire season.

SP

CalFire won't be offering jobs to people at the oral interviews. They will
still have to rank all the applicants then develop the "open list". Offers have
to be made to CalFire departmental promotions first, then to the open list
candidates.

SK

Those of you that have responded, please contact others on your Modules, Ranger Districts, and Forests that you think might have applied and encourage them to email Ab. abercrombie@wildlandfire.com

From what you've said, interviews are as early as Dec 5. Do they make an offer in the interview? Do you have to accept or decline on the spot?

Ab.

To reiterate, this is a poll of

1. all FS firefighters who have applied for the next CalFire Captain's hiring round and have received interview dates from them and
2. those who recently applied for Engineer positions and whether or not you have received a supplemental packet.

Please send your GS rating, Forest, position, and whether you have an interview date or have recently applied with no interview date yet. No names will be included, just your GS rating and forest.

Keep them coming. I will only enter the data on the spreadsheet without posting comments to theysaid unless you instruct me otherwise.

Ab.

Normbc9

Just a little interesting information I have been privy to: LA County refused any
Cal Fire/OES additional resources for this wind event. Said thanks but no thanks,
we have it covered. This is secondhand info but it comes from a very high source
in Cal Fire so I think it is valid.

Great job by everyone at the Malibu Fire. Saw lots of local departments, OES,
and Cal Fire units and crews there.

I think it was a good move to staff up the South State for this event even though
it was not a intense as they first thought. It does not take very many Malibu homes
lost to make up the the entire cost of the mobilization. By the way the local radio
stated that the mobile homes in the park at Malibu sell for $1 mil. Only in SoCal.

signed,
Eng. 83 Capt.

The hotlist (CA-LAC-Corral) has been reporting on this since o'dark30. Sorry I didn't put a note up here. My bad... Ab.

I would like to do a poll or survey of those who received interview dates with Cal Fire. No names to be posted just your GS rating and forest. This may also help fire managers on each forest to know what to expect so that they can express their concerns to the region as well. Maybe even do a poll for those who recently applied for the Engineer positions. This may also help Casey with FWFSA by providing some good data and maybe be a voice at this retention meeting.

Sign Me,

Should I Stay or Should I Go!!

CLASH, eh?

Send an email to abercrombie@wildlandfire.com. I will keep track of the information on a spread sheet and keep the sources anonymous. If firefighters on ranger districts want to ask around to obtain the information and send it in, I'd be willing to record that as well or use it to double check the info. It would be good to have complete information. Ab.

Lobotomy,

Me thinks you made a pun, and a good one at that. Your statement about the press
being a large air force could have a hidden meaning not relative to aviation,
ie, a lot of hot air...

Tongue firmly in cheek.
Best wishes,

contractor

www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2007/notes-ara-budget-healthcare.pdf

What concerns me is the state legislature keeps authorizing the expenditure of
more funds. Where does that money come from?

Norm

Hi to all:

In the spirit of the Holiday I pondered whether to post this today or whether to wait a few days. Ultimately my belief that our wildland firefighters need to know what is going on and the facts on any given issue led me to send this in today.

The R5 RO has refused to include the FWFSA in the "meetings" set for the week of December 10th to discuss region wide retention issues. While disappointing, the response is not necessarily surprising given the issues we have raised recently. Included in this post is a 3 page letter I sent to Mr. Jim Pena seeking our participation and his 3 sentence response.

I truly believe that if the RO & WO would come out collectively and say they support a wildland firefighter classification series, it would send a positive signal to our firefighters that the Agency supports them. Granted classification doesn't bring with it any help in dealing with the cost of living in Southern California and elsewhere but I'd like to think the recognition alone would give enough hope to those pondering a transfer to a non-federal agency that positive change is coming.

I am confident that the representatives from NFFE and the FMOs attending these meetings will candidly express the needs and concerns of the Region's firefighters from all grades and positions.

Casey Judd
Business Manager
FWFSA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Judd,

The Regional Foerster has requested that a team develop recruitment and retention options for consideration for implementation prior to the next round of fire hiring. The team will include NFFE representation. I know that you and y