Check out our Home page, the Wallpaper page and Fire36 photo page with an eye on the photos. "Bubba" McConnell has sent in some great flames photos he took during the Ft Carson fire the week of April15. The photo on the home page will be a candidate for the '09 wildlandfire.com calendar for sure.

Remember as you're out an about this season to take some photos. Ab.

Your post from 4/24 was moving. You're absolutely right, we have to do
better, as an agency and as people. You have a strong sense of hope.
I just got done with a three day symposium on fire ecology in the Klamath
Region, and a take home message was hope. Hope that, given the knowledge
base we have, that better decisions will be made in the future. Its seems
to me that many are full of hope right now, hope for better leadership, better
pay, better representation. I have hope that the agency will see the great benefit
of Appropriate Management Response (AMR), a topic much discussed
during the symposium. It will be a better day when we recognize that not
all fires must be suppressed and alot of resources are simply not more
valuable than the life of a fire fighter.

Klamathman

Here is a website that has close to a hundred R5 Vacancies if not more
that should be known to the Regional Staff. They are not completely up to
date as we have a GS-07, GS-06 and Senior FF positions not listed for our
district handcrew that is shut down due to unstaffed positions. Our
district has no Senior FF positions filled for 5 engines.

This website shows open positions for GS-06 thru GS-11 in R5 for
overhead, hand crews, engines, helitack, and prevention.

www.fs.fed.us/r5/fire/trackingdb/postings.html

signed just another North Zone Captain

Some of us knew, and more do today, that fatigue is a common factor in many major events such as Thirtymile. Missoula has produced research showing that a 24 hour shift can cause situational awareness loss similar to that of intoxication.
When one looks at the timeline, and reads the report, it is apparent that all members must have been into advanced stages of fatigue. To assign "blame" to a person who reacts to fatigue in a predictable manner is futile and counter-productive.

What can/has been done to prevent future tragedies?

My unit will not dispatch resources to an extended attack incident late at night. Why create a "fatigue" situation from the outset. The GACC has adopted this as SOP and while they give forests a "heads up" resource order late at night, they do not expect travel to begin until a crew is rested.

In addition the testing of ICT3s has identified those who lack the experience, skills or leadership qualities to retain those red-card quals. I serve (still) as a member of a regional evaluation team. We were not shy to remove qualification cards from those who "failed" the STEX test.

With the Weaver family fully in mind, our ultimate evaluation question to panel members was "Would you want your son or daughter working for this IC?"

For me the report on the tragedy of Thirtymile seemed to follow a predictable script.

1. The crew should never have been dispatched late at night.
2. The crew boss, squad bosses and crew members should have refused to travel.
3. Upon arrival, the crew should have been rested.
4. I don't see that any formal designation/transition of IC to Daniels ever took place (may have been left out of report)
5. Crew performed in acceptable manner, recognized fire growth and dis-engaged. Most recognized they were experiencing fatigue.
6. The arrival of the engines (resources that I don't see the IC ordered),
   - the "check-in" that does not appear to have been performed to standard
   -the engine boss instructing the IC to come assist.....
   -the willingness of the crew to re-engage

All indicate poor judgment...... which is just as predictable for fatigued people as if they had been intoxicated.

Lessons learned:

• MANAGE FATIGUE
• All crew members can and must turn down unsafe assignments.
• Evaluate leadership. Remove those who cannot or will not perform.

God bless the families of these fine young people. May they come to know peace, and to know that across the country, firefighters did indeed learn from their tragic loss.....and maybe somewhere, someday, that might save a life.

Ya'll take care.
Ralph

Thanks, my friend. Ab.

Black Tuesday Wrist Bands that we ordered have arrived. We're making these available for a buck apiece with a minimum order of 10. Free shipping. Proceeds to the FWFSA.

The Abs.

Here's the message on the wildlandfire.com store. Go there. click for the larger picture. You can wear them inside or outside. Get your orders in!

Black Tuesday Wrist Bands - 10 for $10.00

On April 1st, 2008, in complete opposition to and denial of a wealth of assembled statistics, the Chief of the US Forest Service and her boss Mark Rey appeared before a Congressional Committee and provided testimony that an overwhelming majority of shocked and dismayed federal firefighters viewed either as outrageously ignorant or as blatant lies.

Wildlandfire.com considers federal agencies employees' issues of recruitment and retention critical in maintaining the elite firefighting organizations the public is accustomed and entitled to. With that in mind, we offer this silicone wrist band to be worn by any and all persons wanting to show their support for firefighters and others who are truly trying to solve the firefighter retention issue.

All income received from this product will be forwarded to the FWFSA to use as they best see fit to continue their untiring leadership in educating Congress, other elected officials, and an increasingly attentive media.

To help us keep our free shipping costs as low as possible, please note that each $10.00 order includes 10 each of the wrist bands. Any number less than 10 basically isn't worth our processing of the payment. All bands are size large (8 inches circumference) and colored with white lettering embossed on black band.

Black Tuesday Wrist Bands - 10 for $10.00

Hi emt_mb,

April 1, 2008 (Black Tuesday) was the day that Mark Rey and Gail Kimbell (FS chief) lied (or were badly misinformed) about firefighter retention as they testified in a hearing of the House Appropriations Committee (chaired by Feinstein).

There had been a week-long meeting of groundpounders and fire managers who worked on this issue the week of Dec 10, 2007 and none of the information the field supplied that would improve retention was addressed in the FS Retention Analysis or testimony.

Members of the FWFSA have been educating Congress as usual; and following the hearing, the Appropriations Committee came back to the FS and asked for further retention "plans", due June 30. We'll see what develops out of that.

9/11 was a Tuesday. So was the stock Market crash of 1929 (which also was called Black Tuesday).

Be very safe!

Ab.

On another note:

Please don't forget Michelle Reugebrink's Baskin-Robins firefighter ice cream night. She's one of 31 firefighter honorees nationwide and the only wildland firefighter. Wednesday evening (5-10 PM) is when she'll be rolling up her sleeves and serving 31 cent ice cream scoops at the Roseville Baskin Robbins, 8690 Sierra College Blvd, Roseville, California.

Families go to Roseville Wed evening. No telling who you'll run into. While there, donate to the WFF bucket and eat ice cream. (And check the bathrooms for me to see if the corners on the toilet paper are tucked in and it comes to that point, like in the fanciest hotels. I'm told they will be.)

If you're too far away to make it, send a donation to the WFF in Michelle's name!

Congrats, Michelle! You do us proud. Nice grin yellowshirt!

Mellie

Fedwatcher 007

~ * ~ * ~ BREAKING NEWS  ~ * ~ * ~ BREAKING NEWS ~ * ~ * ~ BREAKING NEWS ~ * ~  * ~

FROM  ELLREESE  DANIELS'  LAWYER

Hi All,

As some of you know, I believe we have finally reached a compromise with
the government in this case. In exchange for dismissing all 11 felony
counts, the government will agree to offer a plea to 2 misdemeanor counts
of making a false statement in an official writing. I will be recommending
to the court that Ellreese should receive no time, the government may
recommend a sentence of jail time. I strongly feel that this is a case
that does not merit a jail sentence, so I am comfortable with the plea to
the misdemeanors.

As you all know, this is a case which I have felt very passionately about.
I am more convinced than ever of Ellreese's innocence on ALL of the counts,
however, there remains a risk that if we proceed to trial, he could be
found guilty of at least one felony. There comes a time and place to put
some closure on this matter, and Ellreese is comfortable with this
resolution. I hope that the witnesses and families may also find some
peace now.

I anticipate that we will still have a contested sentencing hearing in late
summer.

We currently have a tentative change of plea set for tomorrow (April 29) at
11:00 a.m. in Spokane before Judge Van Sickle. The address of the
courthouse is: 920 W. Riverside Avenue, Spokane, WA. It is open to the
public, and I'm sure that if you can be present, Ellreese and I would
appreciate it greatly.

Ab, if you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you could go on and post this
for us to let folks know.

Tina

MOST EXCELLENT NEWS. Thanks for your hard work and thanks also to those who have helped and to those who were willing to testify on Ellreese's behalf. Ab.

Hotlist thread: www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?t=3930

1. Vacancies by Forest/Ranger District/Fire Station by module type, please provide location.
2. How many engines have been reduced from 7 to 5 day coverage?
3. What is the Crew makeup regarding experience?
   example for each crew:
   a) all trainees in new positions;
   b) mix but with trainees in overhead positions;
   c) seasoned firefighters in most positions.
4. How many Crews, engines, prevention units, dozers, Chief Officers are completely unstaffed?

Please let Ab (abercrombie@wildlandfire.com) or Casey (cjudd@fwfsa.org ) know your forest or district staffing levels by answering the 4 questions above. As always, your identity will remain confidential. This is a way for the compiled information from "boots-on-the-ground" to get to those who are truly working on retention issues.

Many "boots" make light work. Thanks, Ab.

Here's the Preliminary Report on the NV Firefighter who had what looked like a heart
attack while doing the pack test.

NV-DOF WCT Cardiac Emergency 041708 Preliminary Report (628 K doc file)

NV Red

Hotlist thread: www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?t=3927

I'm not sure I understand about retention efforts, what Congress wants and what R5 is doing under what constraints... Let me get this clear in my head.

At the April 1, 2008 Senate Appropriations Hearing, when asked about FS firefighter retention problems, Mark Rey said, --don't worry, all resources in CA would be staffed by fire season and that there is no retention problem according to the FS Retention Analysis.

Senator Diane Feinstein replied that she didn't believe that there isn't a retention problem, and the Appropriations Committee requested a further detailed plan for how R5 will improve retention by June 30. She added that Congress has already made it possible to offer money incentives to aid retention by allowing the region to tap suppression funding. Do I have this right?

So now there are meetings to further explore retention and provide another plan for retaining firefighters. They're trying to do this by having 4 teams that look at the following 4 areas:

o Mission - Kathy Hardy and Curt Palmer
o Pay - Kathleen Morse, Lorene Guffey, Mike Dietrich, and Jerry McGowan
o Workplace Improvement - Scott Armentrout and Jeanne Pincha-Tulley
o Facilities - Ed Cole, Ken Heffner, and Riva Duncan

Firefighters have said that pay is their biggest issue, but there are 3 other areas that are also being considered.

Pay: The biggest boondoggle here is that the people in charge -- Randy Moore (Regional Forester), Ed Hollenshead (R5 FAM Chief) and Jody Noiron (ANF Forest Supervisor) -- have said any retention plan has to be "budget neutral". That means effectively that no forest can offer a retention pay incentive, even though Congress has said this would be one way they've approved to help retain people?

I might not understand this. Can someone lay this out better?

Mellie

Eastern FF

UTF= Unable to Fill

1. Do we have a method to collect vacancies by Forest/Ranger District/Fire Station by module type?
2. Do we have a method to report how many engines have been reduced from 7 to 5 day coverage?
3. Also, how many Crews, engines, prevention units, dozers, Chief Officers are completely unstaffed?

I know R-5 has internal methods, however will they report it upward? Will they also report upward that the fire hire round that concluded Thursday was a complete failure? This fire hire round was hastily put together after Rey's testimony, failed to fix the current large number of vacancies in R-5.

We need to put the vacancy data together and ensure that it's shared with those who need to know the truth. Rey lied !

Never Forget BLACK TUESDAY

This is going to sound a little strange, but about 10 years ago I was given one of these
Warthog pins (photo attached) after an especially tough fire assignment in Arizona.

The fella who gave it to me gave me a brief explanation about the criteria for inclusion
into this "fraternity" of Warthogs. On the fire he was my Division Supervisor but I recall
he was a district ranger from Region 6 and getting ready to retire.

I am trying to remember what the components of the " Make SH-- Happen" stand for,
you'll have to read the pin to get this question.

I was just wondering if there are any other Warthogs out there? is this group still around?
a little help would be much appreciated.

Sus Scrofa de Mort,

sting

Put it on the Logos14 photo page. Ab.

The story I heard was your department looked at the CDF model 15s and
USFS model 62s and said "Nope. Neither one." and came up with your own
type 3. I'd still rather have a well maintained model 61 then a 62 or 15 myself.
I got volunpicked for a committee where equipment is going to be an issue.
Any specs or pictures of your brush engines I can get would be much
appreciated.

I always liked the way everything was laid out on them. The number system is
cool and, by gum, those are handsome trucks.

Thanks,

Scrape

University of Wisconsin - SP Fire Crew recruits trained in basic forest firefighting
http://pointeronline.uwsp.edu/apr242008/outdoors/UWSPFireCrew.aspx

www.newwest.net/topic/article/merge_remake_the_forest_service/C41/L41/

Merge, Remake the Forest Service
By Bill Schneider, 4-24-08

Last month, the General Accountability Office (GA0) announced it was studying a plan to take the Forest Service out of the Department of Agriculture and merge it into the Department of the Interior. Predictably, this news was met with a chorus of yawns because we’ve heard many grandiose plans for reorganizing federal land-managing agencies. In every case, after significant wasted staff time and much stress for employees, nothing happens.

But this one wasn’t a yawner for me because something like this really needs to happen. This time, let’s get serious and seize this opportunity to remake the Forest Service (FS), an agency lost in the today’s political landscape.

Interestingly, the GOA study sounds similar to what I recommended three years ago when the FS celebrated its centennial. In that column, I suggested the FS and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), an Interior Department agency with a virtually identical mission, be eliminated and then remade as two completely different agencies, one devoted to outdoor recreation and the other focused on resource extraction and other commercial uses of public lands. This same outcome could--and should--emerge as a recommendation in the GAO study.

<snip>

Let’s face reality and stop the downward spiral. Merge the FS into the Interior Department and then immediately and completely reorganize both the FS and BLM into three focused agencies, named something like:

Outdoor Recreation Service to manage outdoor recreation on all national forests and BLM lands (we’ve never come up with a name for them) including the process of protecting roadless lands and wild rivers and assisting state agencies with wildlife management.

Resource Management Service to manage and promote mining, logging, livestock grazing, oil and gas leasing, and other extractive uses of renewable and nonrenewable resources on public lands.

Fire Service to take charge and consolidate the colossal task of preventing and controlling wild fire on all federal lands, even plucking these functions our of the NPS and FWS, a “budget cut” I’m sure both agencies would welcome. Congress should fund this agency directly and remove these budgets from other federal agencies so they can concentrate on managing public lands instead fighting fires, real and political.

[More at the link...]

Fair Use Disclaimer

Portal to Portal Brief (35K small doc file)

Thanks for posting that yactak.

I met Ken Weaver in the local (Yakima) AM/PM two weeks after the Thirtymile tragedy. I could see the pain and frustration he was feeling, and I was the logical person to vent at since I was in a Forest Service uniform. Venting is probably not the best word to use to describe the encounter, but it was a very painful experience for me. For me, it was both a learning portal and the new beginning of a personal journey towards firefighter safety. I had effectively numbed my feelings following the losses of 1987 on the Klamath, the Wasatch Fire in Utah, and the Dude Fire in Arizona. I subscribed to the checklist and rule theory of keeping firefighters safer.

I never took offense to the things Ken Weaver said to me and never will. He was (and still is) grieving over his loss, and so is the entire wildland fire family. He was treated poorly throughout the entire ordeal, as were we. The Forest Service can and must do better.

The next fire season, I was fortunate enough to meet the folks from the Okanogan-Wenatchee Forest as they were forced to visit the San Bernardino National Forest prior to being allowed to return to fire duty.

I remember vividly meeting the Forest Supervisor, the District Ranger, the FMO, and the duty officer during their visit.... and especially the Louisiana Fire (CA-BDF) towards the end of their visit.... when our personal experiences all came into alignment on a fire progressing rapidly into a project fire. Those folks knew their stuff!!!

I also felt an honor to meet them and hear their stories first hand... and without the agency spin (or deafening silence).

Since the Thirtymile Fire, and my experiences with both the families and the managers, "I" don't look at things the same way..... "I" look to fix the underlying latent factors so neither the families nor the managers (fire and line) have to experience that pain again.

"We", as the field going employees of the Forest Service can, and must do better for our families, friends, and co-workers.

Gizmo

"AB, this document came through lotus notes. Please post.
I would think those that have concerns or suggestions could
propose them to the team leaders. -noname fire"

The fire folks on the list have been sincere and are respected for the most
part in the discussion process.... Maybe the line officer authority should be
delegated to the ranger districts (ie- District Rangers) rather than the Forest
Supervisors?

Team leadership is the issue. The DRs are more connected with issues in the
field and can speak towards the nitty gritty facts that the communities are
most concerned with.

Some of those names being identified as "leaders" are big red flags..... from
fire and line.

/s/ JMHO

On Thursday the 17th of this month a crewboss from NDF (Nevada Dept of Forestry) had a heart attack while taking the pack test. He was on the last lap for the test. He is 38 and just passed a complete physical. He just dropped with no warning and was attended to by the EMT on location and 2 fellow crewbosses. He was transported to the local hospital then taken to a trauma center in Reno, Nevada. He is stable at this time and slowly doing better.

I hate the pack test, but its a evil we all have to do. Look out for your brother and sister fire fighters. You never know when bad things are going to happen. Keep yourselves healthy. Physical fitness is the key to so many things we do in this line of work. The crewboss who went down hit the treadmill every day. So who knows. It will be a while before he can even return to work for light duty. I will post more as time goes on to report how he is doing.

GD

R3 SW Fire Ops Risk Management Newsletter (214K pdf file)

Readers, If you live in the area, get out there and support Michelle!

Melissa Schwagerl
Wildland Firefighter Foundation

Great news! Ab.

www.interfax-news.com/3/387381/news.aspx

Russian wildfires reach Mongolia

MOSCOW. April 23 (Interfax) - The number of wildfires in Russia has
increased over the past 24 hours, the fire area has doubled and spread
to a part of Mongolia, the Emergencies Ministry said.

"Over the past 24 hours the number of wildfires has increased by 74
and the fire area has doubled," the ministry said on Wednesday.

The last 24 hours saw 682 new wildfires erupting in the Far East,
Siberian and Volga Urals districts. A total of 922 wildfires were
registered, 608 of them were extinguished, and 314 still continue on a
total area of 35,932.1 hectares (88,790 acres). [more at the link]

Fair Use Disclaimer

Regions Burn Center, Room 5111
640 Jackson St.
St. Paul, MN 55101-2595

Hotlist thread

The court gave us his order today with the trial date schedules. I thought
most of you would like to know what that schedule is, so I've attached his
order.

Tina

www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2008/law/OrderTrialSchedule[4-22-08].pdf (39 K pdf file small)

Text:

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON

TRIAL SCHEDULE

THIS MATTER is scheduled for trial beginning May 5, 2008 and
ending July 2, 2008. Counsel shall meet with the Court in chambers at
8:30 a.m. on the first day of trial. Jury Selection will begin at
10:00 a.m. Trial will be held each day from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
and from 1:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. excluding the following days: May 9,
May 16, May 22, May 23, May 26, June 5, June 6, June 20, and June 23 -
27.

IT IS SO ORDERED. The District Court Executive is hereby
directed to enter this order and furnish copies to counsel.
DATED this 22nd day of April, 2008.
s/ Fred Van Sickle
United States District Judge

Thanks Tina. Free Ellreese. Ab.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Region 5 Retention Effort

Intent

Fire management has been at the forefront of the issues of employee retention and morale. Recognizing that these issues affect all employees and locations within Region 5, the Regional Forester has established a priority commitment to develop strategies to tackle four key elements contributing to this problem: mission, pay, workplace improvement, and facilities. He has charged Forest Supervisors, in partnership with the FAM Board of Directors, to provide the leadership necessary to move the Region toward resolution.

Four-teams, each to be lead by one or more Forest Supervisors and including one or more Forest Fire Chiefs, have been established to accomplish this task.

Teams

• Coordinators – Jody Noiron and Ed Hollenshead

  o Mission - Kathy Hardy and Curt Palmer
  o Pay - Kathleen Morse, Lorene Guffey, Mike Dietrich, and Jerry McGowan
  o Workplace Improvement - Scott Armentrout and Jeanne Pincha-Tulley
  o Facilities - Ed Cole, Ken Heffner, and Riva Duncan

Timelines and Performance

• Recommendations will be completed and submitted to coordinators by June 30
• Interim status reports will be provided to coordinators on April 30 and May 31

Recommendation Development Principles

• Are within the authority of the Regional Forester to implement
• Provide analysis of consequences (including short- and long-term costs and benefits), opportunity costs (tangible and intangible), and workforce impacts
• Propose logical tradeoffs in view of budget-neutral (within existing Regional budget) requirement

Team Responsibilities

• Independently identify and procure support personnel and information as necessary to accomplish the task
• Include member(s) of the workforce, union, labor relations, and civil rights as necessary to accomplish the task
• Establish vetting requirements and ensure completion to meet the deadline of June 30

FYI. It's a start and we are looking for it to be in writing...but at least there appears to be movement in a good direction!
Just so folks know what James Barnett's email means is relative English:

Last Friday the second in command at OPM verbally committed to extending the June 1, 2009 deadline for those erroneously placed in 0401s after February 15, 2005 (30 for the FS and about 40 for Interior). The new deadline will be October 1, 2010.

This applies to anyone who was placed in a GS-401 position after February 15, 2005. 'Erroneously placed' refers to GS-401 folks who relied on NWCG courses and/or courses not documented on a college transcript to qualify for the GS-401.

NWCG voted yesterday to extend the deadline for all others seeking 0401 in IFPM until that same deadline... October 1, 2010.

This refers to since IFPM was been moved under NWCG, there have been several proposals made to change IFPM implementation, including the deadline to extend as the USFS cannot determine what constitutes the correct kind/type of positive education credits will be used to qualify folks for the GS-401.

...no information regarding any non-0401 positions and can state with a reasonable amount of certainty that any position not requiring 0401 will remain under the October 1, 2009 deadline.

There are several positions in IFPM that do not require a GS-401 education. Incumbents in these positions still have a October 1, 2009 compliance 'deadline'. It also means that on October 1, 2009, having the NWCG qualifications, specialized experience and specialized training (if required for a particular position) will become a condition of hire (ie., to be on the certificate, you have to have it all completed).

There has been incredible effort to even get to this glimmer of hope. It's nice that the 'ice may be breaking up' a bit!

Jeanne Pincha-Tulley
Forest Fire Chief, Tahoe NF
IC, CIIMT3
(also R-5's IFPM and 401 guru)

I also forwarded a copy to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. We were told
a couple of weeks ago at the Team Meetings that this was going to be a
"normal" fire season. I don't even know what that means anymore, but it seems
we've already had too many injuries and fatalities out there.

Be careful out there!
NVAC

Readers, please do alert us and the WFF of accidents, mishaps, injuries and deaths. We alert the WFF as well with any helpful contact info we can acquire. We also maintain a private database on the hotlist that is revealed to members every so often. We do post the "incident within an incident" info to the LargeFires /Incidents hotlist subforum, as soon as possible -- after allowing time for family notifications. We also work at timely release of info that may not have hit the mainstream media. You can always Email Ab or text message Ab with a private message at our top header button. We don't want firefighters' families to find out about a loved one here. Firefighters know about following the golden rule: Do unto other firefighter families as you would have done to yours. That holds true of donations to the WFF as well, regardless of agency, vollie, or private sector firefighter. Ab.

Allowing trainees to have taskbooks initiated while they're still working on
required training classes will improve the qualification process.

vfd cap'n

May2008DraftChangesPMS310-1.pdf (small 20K pdf file)

PTBs= Position Task Books

This takes us through July: www.nifc.gov/nicc/predictive/outlooks/outlooks.htm

I had noticed that we are exceeding the averages for acres burned so far this year.
You're right, the deaths, injuries, and near-misses are spooky for this early in the
season or, for that matter, at any time of the fire season. Heads up everyone!

Still out there as an AD ...

Against that back drop we must also remember to use our resources wisely, the first of the WFSU (P-Code) expenditure forecast is out and it is not a pretty forecast. This is very preliminary information but it should remind us of our fiscal responsibility. The range of WFSU expenditures used in the 10 year average range from a low of $ 306 million in 1998, to over $ 1.5 billion in 2006. In other words any WFSU expenditures in excess of $ 306 million will result in an increase in the 10 year suppression average and require an offset in agency funds from other program areas. Therefore it is imperative:

-- to conserve resources for an entire season,
-- to manage resources with a critical eye regardless of the PL
-- to aggressively pursue initial attack in order to prevent large fires
-- to make mindful decisions regarding resource allocation and reallocation
-- to ensure the right resource at the right time for the right reason is used
-- to preposition effectively

Actions the Washington Office is pursuing include a regional limit or authorization on severity and a mock allocation of suppression funds. These management controls are viewed very favorably by OMB. Operational actions include the addition of a helicopter coordinator position at Boise, centralization of some aviation contracts and national consolidation of some aviation command and control functions.

Agility, focus, innovation and discipline are behaviors we value and continue to promote. The NIMO teams have demonstrated these behaviors and should not be overlooked.

The NIMO teams can be used in a short or long team configuration. They can coach, mentor and advise local resources in Type 3 organizations or Type 2 teams to prevent a transition as complexity increases; or they can manage a fire and work with local line officers to determine the best course of action to reduce costs and support land management objectives. They are a flexible, agile and a cost efficient resource.

We encourage you to explore some of the alternative fire management tools available. We are happy to answer any questions or concerns, or take any input or suggestions that you might have regarding these actions. Let’s continue to work together towards a solution and make this a safe and successful fire season.

Remember no structure, or resource is a valuable as our fire fighters and the public.

Thanks
Marc G. Rounsaville
Deputy Director, Fire and Aviation Management

And when the $$'s gone telling Congress it's gone and stopping work,
like when the NPS closes down monuments when the $$ runs out? until
more money is allocated.

Fire should be budgeted in a transparent way for fire.

Resources should be budgeted in a transparent and fair way for our
forests.

There needs to be a way to separate fire $$ from the rest of the FS
before the FS goes under. Quit "borrowing" from other areas if the $$
runs out. Quit spending fire $$ for other things so you have to borrow
from other areas later. What's so hard about that?

I may be young, but I know how to keep my income and expenditures
straight.

tree girl, love the owls too
One almost ran into my head the other night after I called it. What a rush!

Severity of fires this season?

It seems we are already having fires in a number of regions and several that have
required Incident Management Teams.

We have had firefighter deaths from dozer operator to SEAT pilot and burnovers
that have resulted in serious injury with life flight.

Are there any predictions by reliable groups or individuals regarding fuels, fire
severity predictions.

Wondering what the '08 season might bring, more of the same and worse to come?

Be safe!

Strider

"My department has a plumber, a diesel mechanic, a scrap metal dealer, a geologist,
a GIS expert, a couple of cops, a veterinarian, several heavy equipment operators,
and an electrician."

Nerd, that describes a lot of guys on my fulltime department. Remember most firefighters,
wildland/structural, career/volunteer are "Jacks of all trades, masters of none"

Former Green Soldier.

www.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/local/buckingham/article/injured_firefighter_expected_to_survive/20634/

from Hickman

WOW. In addition to posting replies, I'd also be willing to pass suggestions behind the scenes. Ab.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Ab,

Ten years and change past my retirement date, I have to admit to now only occasionally reading “They Said It”; I find the constant reoccurring themes are, literally, the constant reoccurring themes! I was lucky to start my Federal Wildland Fire career the summer of ’65 as a Fire Control Aid II, it did not pay very much, but it was my dream to fight forest fires and the Plumas National Forest was as good a place to follow that dream as any.

In the Bachelor’s Barracks at the Work Center that summer we spent time grumbling about wages and getting an “appointment”, and some of us wondering why the loggers hated piss firs! In ’66, I dropped out of college and worked for the PNF for nine months, and did just about everything, from tree planting, BRC, learning how to fall timber and drive a flat bed tanker fitted with a 150 gallon slip-on unit, to closing the Spanish Peak Lookout in a driving snowstorm with Lee Reis.

We walked out to Bucks Summit and down to Toll Gate; his truck was towed out in the spring. Five months later I was drafted, and my brief wildland fire-fighting career morphed into being a combat medic in a lovely hellhole called Binh Dinh Province, RVN.

I say all of this, to lead to the thought, that the comments, concerns, and considerations of the authors of “They Said It”, are timeless in the history of the Forest Service. In 1975, a group of us proposed a Federal Wildland Fire Service. (Boy, that was really well received!) I sat on the Forest Committee charged figuring out how to implement SAFETY FIRST on the Forest. (Basically a no brainer). In 1976, a bunch of us proposed that at least one member of every fire crew/ engine/ helicopter/ shots be a Certified EMT, in the aftermath of several serious and near fatal fire line accidents. (Powers to be hated that one, but as a former medic it was dear to my heart, as I watch a dear FS friend try to struggle back from near death inflicted on the walls of the Feather River Canyon.

As the years progressed we did get some action out of the stale bureaucracy that was/is the Regional/Washington Office of the USFS. We eventually got struggling labor organizations, which allowed us to leverage some things. We had to weather the endless choppy waves of the budget cycle. Reorganization, consolidation, Consent Decree, more consolidation. Less money. Fewer people. Falling initial attack capabilities.

I was proud to be early dues paying member of NFFE 1995 and then, Federal Wildland Fire Service Association, F-262. I was privileged to be asked to accompany Kent Swartzlander back to Washington DC, where we attended the National Conference of the International Association of Fire Fighters and attempted to get them to support our “classification agenda”, and spent two days on the hill, meeting with congressional staffers for Senators and Representatives. We actually got to sit down with that unending Congressional Rep of Northern California, Wally Herger, who in that great big smiley face way of his greeted us with, “How’s my favorite fire fighters?” He did not know us from Adam until someone whispered in his ear who we were as we waited in the foray.

I remember drawing those offices I would canvas, and setting off down the hallways to my five minute meetings with a staffer generally younger than me, who in most cases, did not really know that:

• 1) the Forest Service and BLM actually had fire fighters;
• 2) that they were not really classified as Federal Fire fighters; even through,
• 3) they could retire on OPM certified fire fighter retirement; and….oh hell, a hold bunch of stuff.

I dare say, you go there today, and spent two days laying out justifications for proper classification, better wages, better safety, more professionalism; you get the same blank stares we received.

The reoccurring themes of federal wildland fire management seem timeless and etched in granite, and I suspect will remain so for some time. However, that said, do not, ever, ever give up striving to be as professional and progressive as you can in pursuit of your career. I once wrote, “you do not fire fires for the money, you fight because you want to; but more money would be nice!”

I have spoken with many members of both USFS & CDF FIRE since that magical day in January ’98, and know that the last years have not been very kind to either agency. But recently driving past the brand new USFS Fire Dozer on its shining lowboy and chase truck; a smile does come to my face and mind. I remember a bunch of us raising hell when we were told that our initial attack fire cats and operators were to be eliminated! It was a bad decision that blackened many acres; luckily years later someone recognized the error; and gives a chance for a knowing smirk to spread across my face.

Stay the course, stand up and be counted. Change takes time, sometimes a lot of time. Change will still eventually occur, but without personal effort and dedication, it just might not be what you wanted.

Fight fire aggressively, but provide for safety first. Head’s up this fire season.

Oh yeah, Ab, I do miss it still! And a convection column on a mid-slope gets my attention every time.

Peace, Maddog

Thanks for the history, Maddog. Ab.

The funeral services for Gert (Jerry) Marais, the pilot who died when his single engine air tanker crashed April 15 on the TA-25 fire near Fort Carson, Colorado, will be in Fort Benton, Montana, on April 25th at 11:00 AM. The service will be at the Montana Agricultural Center, 1205 20th Street.

Jackson

Thanks, Jackson.
More info: Visitation is 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Thursday at Benton Funeral Home and one hour prior to the 11 a.m. service Friday at the Agricultural Center in Fort Benton.

Memorials may be made to:

the Marais Family Benefit Account
c/o First Security Bank
PO Box 279
Fort Benton, MT, 59442

Each year, the Colorado Fallen Firefighters Foundation hosts the event to pay
tribute to firefighters who paid the ultimate price in Colorado.

There is a parade at 10:30, and the ceremony begins at 11:00 in Belmar Park,
near Wadsworth and Alameda Pkwy. I've gone to the event every year for the
last several years, just as a grateful citizen - not as an agency rep. It's very
nicely done - dignified and touching.

A lot of people don't know the memorial is practically in our back yard, so I just
wanted to let folks know about it, since there will be wildland firefighters honored
this year.

Website for further information, especially if someone wants to put apparatus in
the parade:
www.coff.us/

Thanks for listening, and I hope to see you there.

<snipped name and position>
Rocky Mountain Region

www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008804200343

www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008804170303

SS

I will continue to try and preserve and advance the best firefighting community in the world.

DIB

A bit of history: Here's an interesting 1999 archive: www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2003_n_before/recruit.htm (The Ab there is OA.) Kent Swartzlander, sup of the Plumas Shots and FWFSA president at the time did speak before Congress in 1994 on pay and issues related to retention. (Shots are one of our professional groups and many go on to management positions later in their careers.) Kent was one of the originators of FWFSA with Don Will and Rusty Witwer and some others who exercised their first amendment rights and rose to the need they saw to speak out. Among others, They Said It. It would be interesting to have the history of that early movement preserved here. OA lent his support for the logo link and issues as did Larry Jordan (retired CDF airtanker pilot and AAP webmaster), who hosted the first FWFSA website with the very basic info. It's one part of a proud history that has taken wildland fire professionalism a long way. The action of informing each other, informing Congress and informing the public continues today. Ab.

www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?p=17537#post17537

Have you looked on the engines photo pages? Ab.

I just finished S-290, Intermediate Fire Behavior today. Passed the final with a bit of studying. This was the 4 day class following the new (12/07) 4 day curriculum. I was extremely lucky to have some very qualified and great instructors. Brenda Belongie- North Ops Meteorologist from North Ops/Predictive Services did a great job of teaching the weather section. Her ability to make us critically think instead of just read the “cookbook” made me a more knowledgeable firefighter. I think it is easy to read tables and hear daily weather without thinking about why things are happening in the weather world. Years of getting the weather on the nightly news made me think of weather in a very limited fashion. One big “light bulb” that was turned on for me was making weather 3 dimensional instead of 1 dimensional, i.e. surfacing winds. I am also indebted to BC Alec Lane and his staff for filling in the remaining instructor list and putting the class on. Their experience and real world knowledge definitely helped me learn more about core concepts related to weather and fire behavior.

As far as the curriculum I am going to concur with previous posts on THEYSAID regarding FLAME. I am not about to generalize all firefighters into the category of “knuckle draggers” but FLAME is a complicated process that most of us will not get or use. I don’t think FLAME will ever be used in the cab of an engine I am working on or on line that is being cut. However, FBAN’s should use this process as it does do a great job of predicting ROS. The South Canyon exercise in the class displayed that Flame does produce quality (as close as you can get) ROS calculations. If an FBAN ended up getting these ROS calculations into an IAP I would definitely consider them good tools in the toolbox. I do also think the concepts that deliver a ROS through FLAME are important for the engine boss/ff/crew level. We all need to understand that an increase in slope and wind will cause and "expected" increase in ROS. I realize that Mr. Bishop (FLAME creator) had an awesome goal of making us look at “expected” fire behavior in order to save our bacon on high intensity fires. I applaud him for making an effort to try to decrease firefighter fatalities and injuries. I also applaud the fact that he did this on a volunteer basis.

It does seem that prescribed fire folks could use FLAME as well to effectively determine ROS. I will say my prescribed fire experience is very limited so I will leave this opinion to the people in the know.

I know there has been previous discussion on Campbell Prediction. So I will not belabor the point but CPS is the way to go. I can easily remember the CPS chart to this day. Alignment makes total sense. FLAME makes sense also. But one is quicker the other, CPS makes sense when things are burning. FLAME makes sense for the FBAN who has a little more time than the guys pulling up in an engine or buggy.

In closing, I would think FLAME is a good tool for the classes above the 290 level. I also think 290 should discuss FLAME as we all need to understand what it is and how it can be a useful tool….. from the IAP.

Graeagle FF

Here's what Becki Forest-Supervisor (on the Wenatchee- Okanogan NFs)
said on 4/14 theysaid post from Gorge FMO:

I plan on attending as much of the trial as possible. When I’m not
there, my representative will be. I will wear my uniform proudly in
support of all employees and the Agency. I have identified a few
employees that will serve a variety of roles in an official capacity at
the trial, including keeping you informed of the proceedings. Others
interested in attending can do so on their own time, not in an official
capacity, with the use of leave pre-approved by their supervisor.

She may be there in an official capacity, though.

Mellie

Respectfully, how did you come up with 8 year inflation rate of 20.55%?

cprda

AB,

I was wondering if you or anyone else has any info on the burnover featured in this video; www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uIBOL2yrRM

I noticed some interesting things going on with the burnout operation featured right at the beginning.
1.) The firefighters seem to be taking quite a large chunk of unburned fuel for the wind speeds that are evident. Something that would seem to make the holding effort difficult.
2.) Then, the lower of the two firefighters performing the staggered burnout get ahead of the upper firefighter, something that i was taught was a small safety hazard, but a safety hazard all the same. Especially given the steepness of the terrain, the wind speed, and the way the upper firefighter keeps falling down.

Anyway, Just some personal observations. I would love to read what really happened, I spent a season working on the San Berdue and i know how insane those winds can be.

JG

I don't care to argue, however, I believe we can discuss these concerns. Some of these issues between us are like comparing apples and oranges, however the rough similarities are there. I will state right now, that I am a "contractor". I will also strongly add that our company ALWAYS receives exceptional performance reviews from a multitude of agencies.

I would like to bring up your point of in 2001 one the entry wages where between $ 8 and $10 an hour and that now, 8 years later they are between $10 and $12+. That is a 20% raise!! Sounds like progress to me. In this time, my wife who is a medical professional has received a combined raise of 7.86% , and she is in a very desirable position to a multitude of employers. Now I looked up my rates that that we were hired out at in 2001 before the best value method and compared them to what I have to bid at now and we have taken a 32% CUT! In this time we have replaced all of our equipment and added numerous years of experience to our employees' knowledge base. I also just looked over our CALFIRE agreement and this year we received a new 3 year contact with a 4% increase over our last 3 year contract issued in '05. At the current fuel prices, this will looks to be a net zero gain. I will not complain about this, because at the end of the day I will still make a few dollars and I love my job! Now I admit that our guys gross around $350 per shift which is comparable to what they could make say in the construction or logging trade as equipment operators. We also know that if we did not pay them this wage they would MOVE ON to somewhere that they could make the wage.

My biggest problem with the whole contracting thing has to do with ROSS and the dispatching process. We have invested heavily in high end and quality equipment and education for our employees and it greatly frustrates me when a team is in need for a piece of equipment with a gizmo on it (GEL, CAFS, a million miles of hose or whatever), and so they place the order out through ROSS and the dispatchers don't know how to find us since this certain "gizmo" is not listed as a search feature on ROSS. It also is a bit depressing knowing that our equipment (new and loaded) is dispatched with the same priority as a pickup with a hand crank pump (yes that was an exaggeration, but you get the point).

It also bugs me when our local dispatch center wont send us out, (even when there are orders for equipment) just because they want us to be around in case if they need us. Now this is common, at times, with paid agency people, but when this happens to us, we are not paid if we aren't out on an incident. How can we pay for good quality equipment if we don't receive any jobs? When an agency employee is held, they are likely getting paid at the same time. Perhaps they are doing project work or "polishing" the engine. Should firefighters be paid more than $12 an hour? Yes they should! Yet remember to look at the plus side too, and they got a 20% pay raise in the last 8 years under an administration that is trying to cut costs....

I will stand up for you guys for a better "living wage" Will you guys stand with me for a better dispatch process for us contractors?

I guess in closing I can say, "see MLK, I guess even I can whine too ;)"

Have a good an safe and yes PROSPEROUS fire season!

cprda