"THEY SAID IT" ARCHIVES
Home of the Wildland Firefighter
Porterville Crew program:
Good Morning, MS
Is this what you posted more campfire talk? Or is the program Really back in
Was there a letter of reinstatement or just easy quick talk. I would love to
see this letter.
Show us the money... or proof....
The link to Australian firefighting sign up is
Australia / America Exchange
The Porterville Crew program has been re-instated for 2011 thanks to the
good work of FAM leadership on the SQF.
Why? Why would a manager (Line Officer) go down this path of throwing her
subordinate under the bus in front of
cooperators, US Congressional Rep, the Porterville City Council, County
Supervisors, the media, her Forest Leadership
Team including subordinates to the Fire Chief? Is this how Line Officers are
trained to deal with issues?
This issue was able to be fixed. We did not need her to have drama contest
with herself. We did not need a member of
the US Congress and local officials inquiring about her little drama email.
For sake of argument, let us say the whole program was a mess (and for the
record, I dont believe that for a minute), next
time you have a similar issue Ms. Terrell do this.
- Step 1) Call Fire Chief into office.
- Step 2) Explain issue(s).
- Step 3) TELL THE FIRE CHIEF TO FIX IT.
- Step 4) Move on.
You have permission Ms. Terrell to print and hang it on your wall as a
reminder next time you get that urge to send out
another email zinger.
No media, no congressionals, no dramatics, wow - what a concept.
On a positive note, because of her actions, the next time this Congressman
hears about re-organization options with Fire
Management, maybe, just maybe he will listen a little closer. Time to start
educating again and she stepped right into this
one. I will be informing my local congressional staffs about this incident
to ensure they have the full story. Just one more
This is how change happens, one example at a time.
Finally, anything we learned from all this whole event? How to/how not to
treat people maybe? I know I learned a few
Interesting article about this fall's weather pattern.
La Nina gets help bringing colder, wetter weather to Sacramento
By Matt Weiser
Nov. 28, 2010
Northern California's soggy, cold fall weather is caused by a collision
of two huge temperature cycles in the
Pacific Ocean, weather experts say, and it's likely to continue through
The first player is La Niña, the normally dry sister of El Niño.
La Niña is caused by a cooling of the equatorial Pacific Ocean. This bumps
the jet stream north, typically
bringing a wet winter to the Northwest and drought in the Southwest.
Because Sacramento lies in a neutral zone between those two effects, La Niña
usually means "normal" here.
In 130 years of data, rainfall in La Niña years is 96 percent of average,
said Bill Patzert, a climatologist at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.
But this year, La Niña is mixing with a lesser-known pattern called the
Pacific Decadal Oscillation, or PDO.
This is a cyclical temperature change in the northern Pacific that is much
The PDO cycle this year is negative, or cooler than normal, just like La
Niña's effect, said Patzert.
The two phenomena have created a very strong jet stream that is... <more
at the link>
lost another tanker pilot
I got this last week but waited to post until further info came out....
also a link to his obit is at the bottom. Prayers go out to his family.....
To all CAL FIRE employees,
We have received word that Robert (Bob) Finer was killed in an airplane
crash on November 17, 2010. Bob, an S2-T tanker pilot for us during the fire
season was off contract and was flying for another company somewhere else
when the accident occurred. This is the extent of the limited information we
have at this time. What we do know; is that we have lost an outstanding air
tanker pilot, husband, father and a good friend. Our thoughts and prayers go
out to Bob’s family in their time of loss. Bob is survived by his wife Dena
and four children of Boise Idaho.
Bob started his firefighting career as an Air Attack pilot in April of 2001,
flying OV-10 aircraft. He eventually moved into flying the S2-T airtanker as
a trainee tanker pilot in 2003 and then becoming a fully qualified initial
attack rated airtanker pilot in July of 2004. Bob flew as the primary air
attack pilot or air tanker pilot at several bases throughout the state and
was highly regarded for his professionalism and his airmanship. Bob will
certainly be missed by all of us.
At this time the family is still finalizing funeral arrangements and I will
get that information out to you as soon as I receive it. For anyone planning
on traveling to Boise, some of the tentative plans Dena indicated to me on
the telephone were, that the services will be at the Calvary Chapel in Boise
at 1230 with a military service to follow at the Veterans Cemetery at 1500.
I do not have any of the addresses at this time. Below you will find the
contact information for cards or flowers. Please keep Bob’s family in your
thoughts and prayers during this difficult time.
528 N. Elizabeth
Star, ID 83669
Alden-Waggoner Funeral Chapel
5400 Fairview Avenue
Boise, Idaho 83706
ph • (208) 376-5400; fax • (208 323-8339)
DENNIS W. BROWN
Aviation Safety Officer
Sad news. Ab.
from the Hotlist:
Thanksgiving is over
WHAT'S THE STORY please TINA TERREL?
One way or the other a number of people want to know!!! Their lives and
livelihoods depend on it!
Did she rescind the order to terminate the Organized Crews?
Will there be training for the Porterville OCs? For other OCs?
Was she told she "had to do this or she'd lose her job" or did she come up
with this on her own? What did the FS Regional Forester know? What did the
FS Washington Office know?
Is there some hidden agenda???
if there is one, could a hidden agenda also affect FS plans for
Region 3 training?
Does this shout watchout for the FS training of organized fire crews or for
fire in general?
Most organized crews are minorities and dam good workers and firefighters.
Maybe we need another consent decree levied against the Forest Service???
The true story needs to be told no matter what it is!
Seasonal firefighters face loss of Sequoia jobs
Tina Terrel said she sent her letter to get the Porterville OC
leaders to determine which of their firefighters had proof of
training and which would have to prove training or be re-trained in
order to be hired next fire season.
And it seems to have worked, as Terrel noted: "I got a letter from
the fire staff. They can get it done by Nov. 17." If this deadline is met, Terrel said she likely will rescind
her announcement before Thanksgiving.
Open your mouth and speak or pick up your pen and write a letter, Tina
Regional Forester, we expect to hear from you
Any letter or news article anyone has heard of? Ab.
Contact the author of the article... David Castellon •
dcastell@ nospam visalia.gannett.com
Maybe he knows something?
I retired/resigned from the Canadian Forest Service on November 12, 2010
after 34.5 years of service.
I now begin my “second career” as it were, which includes a Joint Fire
Science Program supported project aimed at synthesizing the currently
available information on crown fire behavior in conifer forests (e.g., the
onset of crowning, type of crown fire and the associated spread rate and
fireline intensity). In addition to summarizing the existing scientific and
technical literature on the subject, project members are also seeking
assistance from individuals in the form of field observations of crown fires
and related experiences as well as still pictures and video footage.
Finally, we are interested in hearing from you as to your opinions on the
subject of crown fires and any specific questions and/or research
needs/knowledge gaps that you would like to see addressed in this crown fire
synthesis project. We have a
Folks can contact me through my
University of Alberta website.
Looking forward to hearing from your readership.
I LOVE YOU ALL, SURE
Hugs all around!
thanks for all of YOU, and for those who, through the years,
have given their ALL for this country at home and abroad.
Be safe. Hug your family and friends often.
Tell them why you appreciate them!
The Abs at wildlandfire.com
Atta_Gal please resend your message, it went in spam. Ab.
As a firefighter who is bound to a career of swinging a tool I would like to
thank everyone who keeps this site going. It keeps my family, who doesn't really
grasp what I do, informed. They check the site often and my father is always
quizzing me on what you all are discussing. Checking the hotlist always gives me
hope of another call coming. The information that hits the "They Said" page
keeps me on my toes for all the issues I may face.
Amongst the many things I am thankful for, this site is for sure one.
Sometimes I feel like the wildland scene is a dead end road that I will never
find my way free of, but you all give me hope and help remind me why I do what I
do. Have a Happy Thanksgiving and a safe holiday season.
Thanks for the thanks, D. Our thanks to everyone too! This community is a
blessing for sure. I'm thankful.
Happy Thanksgiving thread on the hotlist. Ab.
Link info for Australia details:
There is a website/link to go to and fill out
for the 2010/11 Australia detail for DOI folks. I'm looking for it, any help
would be great.
Always Remember project:
Mellie talked about the Pepper Hill Fire in northern
PA near Emporium where 8 CC members died.
Here's picture of
Memorial Springs, dedicated to the memory of those firefighters.
Thanks Firefox1. Ab.
Posted this evening by Captmack on the hotlist...
Calif. Inmate Firefighter Killed, Others Hurt in Crash
A civilian also was killed, and a dozen inmate firefighters were hurt, four
The Associated Press
Posted: Tue, 11/23/2010 - 09:02pm
Updated: Tue, 11/23/2010 - 09:08pm
GORMAN, Calif. -- A truck carrying a prison inmate wildfire crew collided
Tuesday with a car on a narrow highway north of Los Angeles, killing one inmate
and the driver of the car and injuring the truck's 12 other occupants,
The car and truck crashed on Highway 138 near Interstate 5 south of Gorman,
Los Angeles County fire Inspector Matt Levesque said.
Fire Inspector Frederic Stowers said one inmate was killed and the other 12
occupants of the truck were injured, four critically. Eleven of the 12 were
inmate firefighters, and the other was their fire captain leader, who is not an
inmate and was driving the truck. (more at the link...)
fair use disclaimer
Also posted by norcaltraining on the hotlist,
another article by the LA Times with aerial photo.
Sad news. Condolences to friends, coworkers and families. Prayers for the
complete and speedy recovery of the survivors. Ab.
More remembering our fallen:
Thank you for keeping efforts lately on the site remembering fallen brothers and
Our ongoing project on the BDF to remember USFS and aviation contractors. We
have been at this
for a few years now.
Take a look at our page and of course help fill in the blanks and corrections.
Unfortunately the list is far
from complete, since we are researching one fatality from 1958 and possibly one
from around 1970
here on the forest.
fallen usfs firefighters
Great site the BDF Heroes site! The url no longer worked, so we all
thought the page was taken down. Great news that it's not.
Of course the Always Remember Project will share. Earlier in the year we
used your page to verify what we were finding. Group effort! Thanks to all
researchers and members of the Honor Guard. Ab.
Does anyone know if the FS used the term spike camp before the CCC
did? Lots of CCCers got their skills and work ethic
from FS mentors.
I agree, nice Melissa is back and very interesting website on the CCC. I
remember one marker in north/central Pennsylvania
up near Elk State Forest (Emporium) where CCC firefighters died. Wish I'd taken
a picture. CCC young men did a lot of
very fine bridge and trail construction throughout the Midwest and Northeast.
They still exist.
A family member once asked me where the term Spike Camp came from.
Here it is, pre SJ, pre HS, from CCC Days.
CCC Side Camps, Fly Camps and Spike Camps
Thanks Melissa from the WFF for the link to an interesting historical
Good to see you back.
Thanks, I added it to the
Sym Limb video
Attached is the Sim Limb video, as a 6.6 mb Windows Movie wmv file.
fs simlimb 25 megs.wmv
Many thanks, vfd cap'n. It's as impressive today as it was upon first
viewing. Thanks to Michelle Reugebrink, Dave Chamberlin and Tahoe Shots. Ab.
Always Remember project:
Jeff for the Tunnel 6 contact info, Rick for all the old LAC memories, and
others. It's amazing the wealth of historical info
people can still tap.
Hi to all:
I know it is still two days away from Thanksgiving but since it appears I'll be
shoveling snow until then, I wanted to offer my sincerest heartfelt wishes to
all and your families for a very Happy & Safe Thanksgiving.
Each year at this time, while being thankful for the obvious...families &
friends, I like to offer my thanks to all of you who allow me to have the best
job in the world. Yes, the stress and frustration can be intense at times and
although the desire to throw up my arms and say "to hell with it" enters that
void between my ears every once in a while, all I have to do is think of this
special community and the men & women who place their faith, confidence and
trust in me and the FWFSA along with all those who make this community the
family it truly is and my motivation to continue to deal with the *#%@ in
Washington builds back up.
Thanks to all of you. May Peace & Happiness embrace all of you & your loved ones
during the holidays.
Much Respect & Affection,
Sym Limb video
Regarding appreciation of the danger when in snag-infested woods, this
training and video came out in 2006 because of all the falling snags and felling
accidents. It's a great opportunity to see how fast a limb hits the ground,
often before anyone can act...
Sim Limb (OK, the link
to Sym Limb does not work anymore, maybe because it's 25 Meg. Does anyone know
where it moved to or have a copy they can send us?)
Hotlist thread to read the comments about it...
Update, OK got it from vfd cap'n...
Always Remember project:
Kenneth Enslow was a first year Fire Fighter I with CDF. He was employed at the
Home Gardens Schedule A station
in Riverside County. CDF Firefighter Enslow was killed by a falling snag on the
RECER Fire on the Mendocino NF.
It was his first wildland timber fire and he may not have appreciated the danger
despite being warned. He died the next
day, August 14, 1990.
Here are four CAL FIRE Green Sheets ref: the fires where additional information
is requested. I have attached the
1990 RRU California Fire, the 1990 MNF Recer Fire, the 1987 MEU Lauder Fire and
the 2004 TCU Tuolumne Fire.
CORE VALUES: **Leadership*Competence*Integrity*Safety*Customer Service**
Unit & County Fire Chief John R. Hawkins
Riverside County Fire Department
Thanks very much, John. The Always
Remember! Project appreciates the information. Ab.
The WFF number on the 2010 Combined Federal Campaign is
Good time to make a donation. Ab.
for the Always Remember project,
from Melissa at the Wildland Firefighter
Camp Pendleton Fire LODDs - 1966
Lance Corporal Roger L. Zarbok, 19, St. Paul, MN
Private First Class Leslie W. Hendrix, 20, Keyes, CA
Private First Class Cecil J. Henshew, 20, Bellevue, WA
Private Lewis W. Connor, 20, Kenova, WV
Private First Class Henry S. Terrazas, 20, Austin, TX
Killed in the Blackwater Fire- 1937:
Alfred G. Clayton, Ranger
James T. Saban, Technical Foreman
Rex A. Hale, Jr. Assistant to the Technician
Paul E. Tyrrell, Jr. Forester
Billy Lea, Bureau of Public Roads Crewman
John B Gerdes
Will C. Griffith
Mack T. Mayabb
Complete story of the fire:
2007/08/death on the fire line blackwater fire
Fairview Hollow Fire - Kentucky Div. of Forestry, 1965 - LODDs
1965 Fairview Hollow
Guess my memory is not that great, LOL. The name of the incident Mr. Enslow was
on was the Recer Incident not the
Bear Incident. Please pass on to Mellie. Thank you.
Judy Brazzi Bungarz
Thanks Judy. Ab.
The post, 11/21 from Mellie requested information on the fatalities. Under CDF
Fatalities is listed Kenneth E. Enslow.
Mr. Enslow was killed by a falling snag on an incident on the Mendocino National
Forest August 14, 1990. Mr. Enslow
was an engine crewmember on a So. Cal CDF Engine, was 20 years old and I believe
this was his first year working for
CDF. The incident name was, if memory serves me right, the Bear Incident.
Judy Brazzi Bungarz
Retired Center Manager, Mendocino National Forest
Thanks Judy. Ab.
Thanks for the insight, "Retired". I looked up several CDFers
to check your premise that it's not the Unit address.
They're both listed as Sacramento, with the CDF or CAL FIRE chief's address.
Denis Lee Cullins, 1987; Copter 102 Kneeland Helitack sacramento
Eva Marie Schicke, 2004; Copter 404 Columbia Helitack sacramento
Even though the national database goes back to 1981 with names of people on
Maryland memorial, when
you go back beyond about 2000, the links to individual record details are more
spotty, including no info on if
they're wildland or structure firefighters. They can only post what they receive
and can verify.
"Retired", I added the your details for Kenneth Enslow to the database. The
USFA database does not have any
of his details. I figured out he died in 1990. Do you remember the incident
name? There could be info on the
Lessons Learned Center database.
Thanks for the personal emails, too.
Firefighter Foundation is supporting this research, as well as others behind
the scenes. Thanks,
everyone! This is truly a wildland firefighter endeavor.
Always Remember! Hug your family. Count your blessings!
Kenneth Enslow was a 20 year old CDF Firefighter killed on a fire on
Mendocino National Forest in early 1990's.
Killed by a falling tree. The artist that made the sculpture of firefighters on
the capital mall in sacramento used him
as the model for the one of the firefighters in the statue. Should be a CDF
green sheet or USFS doc with more info.
Think his engine was out of CDF Riverside. Could be CDF uses Sacramento as
location for all employees?
Does anyone know if a FLA is planned or completed for the WA-FEBN-Daven Place
I don't see anything yet on that hotlist thread.
I haven't seen it yet. Here's the hotlist thread with the 24 and 72 hr
WA-FEBN Daven Place Fire burnover. Ab.
The only reason I can think of for listing the victims from Bautista Crew 3
as "CDF Sacramento" is that they
were inmates. As such, they wouldn't be considered part of Riverside Unit CDF.
In the Oakland Hills Fire, it was an OFD Battalion Chief who died. The only OFD
name on the list is Riley.
That should be the lost member.
Good morning, All,
I could use some info if anyone knows or has access to
pertinent records. These LODD firefighters are missing from
our Always Remember!
database. I'm hoping someone has or can get this info.
Camp Pendleton Fire 1966/11/1 (same day as the
Loop Fire, and reported in the LA Times) 4 firefighters killed
Baliff Fire on the San Bernardino NF in 1967, 1
firefighter was killed
Tunnel 6 Fire in 1954 on the Tahoe NF, 3
firefighters were killed
California Fire 1990/6/27 near Hemet, Riverside RU,
2 members of Bautista Crew #3 were killed, just found those
but wonder why they're
labeled from CDF Sacramento?
incorrect-Kenneth E Enslow (Sacramento)- incorrect, should be Victor
Aaron J Perry (Sacramento)
Canyon Fire 1968/8/2 near Azusa, 8 firefighters were
Kenneth Enslow must have died on a different incident, maybe falling snag?
Oakland/Berkeley Hills Fire 1991/10/20, one FF and
one LE were killed.
USFA website has nine records. One is an Oakland FF, but help raced in from
all over during that firestorm.
Can anyone rule any of these firefighters in or
Blackwater Fire in Wyoming 1937/08/21, on the Shoshone NF, 15
were killed and are listed on the plaque, but I
can't make out the names
Fairview Hollow Fire on 1965/3/16 near Harlan, KY
Division of Forestry, 3 firefighters were killed
Utah, OK, just found those two names...
One 1988 record I'm looking for is an entrapment LODD from a "Bule
Hole" Rx burn.
USFA ff memorial lookup has the following fatalities listed, but no info
surrounding their deaths or whether they
are wildland fire or prescribed fire.
(The USFA database only goes back to 1981 so there's no record of any older,
more historical deaths.)
1988, Oregon searching for possible entrapment LODD called Bule Hole Rx burn
Firefighters Memorial Database Results searching on OR and 1988
Firefighter's Name / Fire Dept. / Name City, State
Beck, Wendell L / Crooker River Ranch Fire District / Terrebonne, Oregon
Mohr, Louis A / Pine Grove Rural Fire District / Hood River, Oregon
Schas, David Alfred / US Forest Service / Redmond, Oregon
Stroda, Joseph J / Halsey-Shedd Rural Fire Protection District / Halsey, Oregon
If anyone has entrapment fatalities from your states, would you please let me
know? I appreciate the
memorial photos and
Wildland Fire Memorial
Sites with names from the NJ firefighters and others. It's a rich
of those that gave their all.
Kellie and Tom Jones, Thanks for the info and leads on reading about the
Tillamook burn in OR.
Thanks everyone for any help,
R-5 Forest Service Firefighters. Your Regional Forester is looking for a few
good IC's. Maybe the letter for the
other IMT positions is forthcoming, however
if not, thanks to wlf.com this outreach can be extended to you.
Wildland Firefighters - It's time.
Apply for membership on our
California Federal Incident Management Teams.
Applications are accepted until
January 15th. Both qualified and trainees may
Date: November 18, 2010
Subject: Type 1 and Type 2 California Interagency Incident Management Teams
(CIIMT) - Incident Commanders/Deputy Incident Commanders Pos itions
To: Forest Supervisors, Forest FMOs, ECC Managers, Directors
REPLY DUE DECEMBER 1, 2010
The California Wildland Fire Coordinating Group (CWCG) is recruiting for IC,
Deputy IC, and IC mentee trainee positions to serve on the Type 1 and Type 2
California Interagency Incident Management Teams (CIIMT). Applications for IC,
Deputy IC and IC mentee trainee positions need to be submitted through your CWCG
Agency Representative listed in the application by December 1, 2010 . As part of
the application process, CWCG will schedule an interview with Incident Commander
Applicants during the month of December.
Applications can be found
The California CIIMT tenure was changed from 5 years to 3 years in 2009. If you
have not applied since 2006, you must reapply to be considered. Team members
selected from 2007 and 2008 fall under the 5-year tenure and will fulfill their
commitment at the end of 2011 and 2012 respectively. Team members selected in
2009 will fulfill their 3-year tenure at the end of 2011.
Applications will not be considered without the following signatures (/s/ will
not be accepted):
* Certifying Official (verifying that the applicant meets all
certification/qualification requirements in FSH 5109.17 for the applied
* Immediate Supervisor (acknowledging applicant will be made available for team
assignment(s), training, and currency maintenance for up to 3-years)
* Forest Supervisor or Staff Director (acknowledging applicant will be made
available for team assignment(s), training, and currency maintenance for up to
If you have any questions, please contact your Agency Representative listed in
/s/ Daniel J. Jirón (for)
Operators Manual Model 51
We are forming a volunteer fire dept in Sloughouse CA, obtaining
a 1981 GMC 4 door Model 51 Fire Truck, with a KCR Manufacturing 300G
tank, with a hose reel on each side. Someone took the brass labels off
the control panel. Do you know where I could obtain an operator's
manual? I've contacted the manufacturer to no avail.
Thank you for any assistance you might provide,
I'd be happy to pass on any message. Ab.
Update on the NV BLM Unimog photo:
We have discovered who the NV Firefighter is
and the photo is of him on the left and his brother.
My question now is this: Does anyone
have photos of Tildon Smart's dad that could share them here and with Tildon?
Seeking info on who's in a photo on wlf.com
Hi, my name is Tildon Smart I was
wondering if you could tell me the names of the gentlemen in
Winnemucca BLM unimog photo. I lost my father in January and the guy on the
him but the photo is not clear. If you can't tell me, is there any way you or I
could find out?
Tildon, I don't know. That photo was sent in about 2000 and appears to be
from 1998 or 1999. That's the original size. Readers, does anyone know who the
firefighters are? Credit is to NV Firefighter.
Photo description follows. Ab.
Unimog: I was looking at your engine pictures and didn't think it
would be complete unless you had some pictures of a Unimog. So here they
are. I was a crewmember on Unimogs for my first three seasons, and in 1998
and 1999 I was the foreman of 2931 (Super Mog). For those who don't know the
Unimog is made by Mercedes Benz, and they are a perfect truck for the fuel
types and terrain in the Great Basin. Engine 2931 has a 350 gpm pump and
holds 730 gallons of water. The most impressive feature is the hydraulic
blade that we use to cut line. Many people who don't understand Mogs are
under the impression that they are not reliable and prone to serious break
downs. What they don't understand is the stress and strain that these trucks
are subjected to. With proper care and maintenance I guarantee these trucks
can out perform anything on the lines today day in and day out.
Photo courtesy of NV Firefighter.
Floating Over Flames
Story of a smokejumper..
Subject: Great Basin Cache (GBK) Annual Inventory and Subsequent Ordering
Great Basin Cache will perform an annual inventory in January, during which ONLY
emergency incidents will be processed. GBK will continue to process and ship all
until inventory begins, however, to ensure that your order is processed and
shipped, it must be submitted no later than December 17, 2010. Normal processing should resume on
Please note these dates on your calendars and spread the word to your training
coordinators and cooperators. We realize this has a large impact on the fire
and want to spread the word now so you can preplan your course supply orders.
If you have questions, feel free to direct them to me at 208-387-5104
Thank you for your patience.
Assistant Manager, Great Basin Cache
National Interagency Fire Center
Historical crew photo posted on
Handcrews 28 photo page:
Cle Elum & Ellensburg Combined Crew '70s:
Here's a photo of the Regional Reinforcement fire crew, combined crews from Cle
Elum, WA and Ellensburg, WA, early 70's. Claim to fame is that we were sent to
Minnesota to fight the peat bog fires in the fall, an impossible job! And then
it snowed. Photo compliments of John Gaasland.
followup thanks for photos for Oregon wildfire billboards:
find the final of our
wildfire billboard. I received two additional photo
submissions. This ultimately
was the one we chose because we were able to get it in the proper resolution.
Thanks again for all your help!
Josephine County Emergency Management/Search & Rescue
Thanks contributors and thanks Andrew H for
Structures Threatened. Ab.
The Wild Fire Camp in Salida Colorado exceeded my
expectations. Because of your helpful website,
I was able to get my S-130/S-190, S-133, L-180, I-100 and a verification that I
completed the pack
test at 7,200 feet.
Adam, Glad the info here steered you in the right direction. Best wishes
in your firefighting career. Ab.
Chance Zobel, LODD
From GA Peach, this memorial service takes place this
morning. (In about an hour Pacific time. Please take a moment of silence.)
firefighter to be laid to rest today (South Carolina -Columbia)
Nov 17, 2010
COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) - Family, friends and firefighters from all over the state
will gather to celebrate firefighter Chance Zobel's life today.
Zobel was killed while putting out a grass fire Saturday. Troopers say he was
hit by an out of control car in the median of Interstate 20.
Firefighter Larry Irvin, 30, was also injured in the accident. Irvin remains in
the hospital in critical, but stable condition.
A public memorial for the 23-year-old Zobel will be held at
1:00pm Wednesday at
Shandon Baptist Church in Columbia, SC
followed by a burial service at Shady Grove United Methodist Church in Irmo.
(more at link)
Donations solicited for fire fighters' families (South Carolina)
(story at link, but here's the address for donations)
Donations should be mailed to:
Columbia Fire Fighters Foundation
Palmetto Citizens Federal Credit Union
1320 Washington Street Suite # 1
Columbia, SC 29201-3382
Account # 413001330078
I'm looking for outside funding sources to attend a 2 week wilderness medical
training in January.
I work for the NPS which has the Albright-Wirth grant program. Unfortunately,
that program seems to be
overtaxed. Last year it took almost 11 months to find out I didn't get my
With the funding issues affecting training and travel funds across the agencies,
I'm going to have to look
elsewhere to fund my non-standard training needs.
Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
Good luck with that. I'm happy to pass any messages on to emt_mb.
Congrats to Brian Kliesen a permanent-seasonal firefighter with the U.S.
Forest Service and the raffle winner of the
new 2010 Jeep Wrangler from the 1910 Fire Commemoration committee!
U.S. Forest Service worker an appropriate winner
. . . 1910 Fire Jeep owner Kliesen had only bought his raffle ticket the
day before the drawing. He had been following the 1910 Fire Commemoration
events closely upon reading "The Big Burn" by Timothy Egan through a
wildland fire community website, unable to attend personally due to his
active status as an Army reservist. . . .
Big congratulations, Brian, and thanks for your service to our country, as
firefighter, as a supporter of the WFF and through your military service.!
Repost: on 10/19 Brian wrote:
Once again the Combined Federal Campaign has started and Federal Employees,
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Coast Guardsmen and Marines are encouraged to make either a one time contribution or a monthly
allotment to one of hundreds of worthy charities. Something as simple as $5.00 a month would equal $60.00/year for your favorite
Firefighter Foundation is one of those recognized charities listed and I
would encourage you all to consider a donation to this fine organization. It is
Number 12544 and this is one of
the easiest ways to donate to them.
For more information on the Combined Federal Campaign, or to donate
online, go to; opm.gov/cfc
SPC Brian Kliesen
Fort Riley, KS
Firefighters in this for a career...
Make time this winter, visit
and take it upon yourself to educate yourself.
The newsletter (which Ab has abbreviated) came in from the Executive
Director of FireSmoke Coalition (firesmoke.org), CPTC
The Cyanide Poisoning
Treatment Coalition provides:
- Resources for Firefighters
- Pathology and Toxicology
- Hazardous Materials
- ALS | BLS | ER
From the Executive Director (abbreviated newsletter info; links
Welcome to the new training web site for the Fire Smoke Coalition, a division of
the Cyanide Poisoning Treatment Coalition. As the epicenter for Fire Smoke
education, it is our mission to provide first responders with the latest
research and training opportunities to prevent fire smoke exposure.
Included in the new site:
Ask an Expert: Post your questions for response within 24-48 hours. Experts
include Coalition board members and national authorities on fire smoke which
include firefighters, toxicologists, medical doctors, and more. Whatever the
question, we have the expert to answer it.
Firefighter Blog: Share information relative to products, training, SOPs, SOGs,
etc. Many departments don't know where to start when searching for equipment,
implementing standards and more. Share what you know or need to know. (and
Shawn Longerich, Executive Director
Ab's bold. It's easy to sign up with PayPal. $25 buys you lots of
important health info for life!
Mellie's Tillamook Fire request:
I would suggest contacting the Oregon Department of Forestry's Tillamook Forest
Center. It is devoted to
the history of the Tillamook forest and they might be able to assist you with
your search for that book.
Toll Free 866-930-4646
They do have limited winter hours. They can be found on their website:
Porterville (OC) Organized Crew program shut down for 2011:
Seasonal firefighters face loss of Sequoia jobs
Part of the article, but read the whole thing. Ab.
More than 400 seasonal firefighters assigned to Sequoia National Forest
are worried that they might not be hired next year.
She gave her field divisions until Oct. 31 to get their documents in order.
"They didn't do it," she said of the Porterville OC.
It's left OC members, including Visalia resident Dereck Bailey, worried.
"Honestly, I don't know what they're going to do about wildland fires
[without the OC crews next year]," he said.
The loss of income could be devastating to his family if the Forest Service
doesn't hire seasonal firefighters here next year.
But that's not likely to happen, Terrel said.
She said she sent her letter to get the Porterville OC leaders to determine
which of their firefighters had proof of training and which would have to
prove training or be re-trained in order to be hired next fire season.
And it seems to have worked, as Terrel noted: "I got a letter from the fire
staff. They can get it done by Nov. 17."
If this deadline is met, Terrel said she likely will rescind her
announcement before Thanksgiving.
fair use disclaimer
There is a book titled "Big Sam" written by his son Sam Churchill. Big
Sam Churchill grew up in a logging camp in the coast range of Oregon and worked
as a logger before and during the Tillamook fire . It has quite a bit about the
logging practices that led up to the Tillomook Burn and includes many events
during the fire. I checked it out of my high school library in Yakima 45 years
ago and read it so I can't recall if it goes into the aftermath of the fire or
not. It was what got me interested in becoming a forest fire fighter. You might
find it interesting...if you haven't found it already.
Now that Kent is retiring, he'll have plenty of time to head back to our
old stomping grounds together...Washington D.C. I can't tell everyone how
much I miss him when I'm on the Hill and the incredible amount of time &
effort he put into the FWFSA and federal wildland firefighter issues over
the years...or the beer we consumed during our Hill journeys!
Thanks Casey for that post. Great to see all the names together. We all need
you and a strong FWFSA now more than ever. You and Chief Swartzlander might just
need a kegger this time around since you could have plenty to work on over the
next 9 years if these were ever implemented:
- Freezes federal salaries, bonuses and other compensation for three
- Rolls discretionary spending back to FY 2010 levels.
- Requires 1% cut in discretionary budget authority every year from FY
2013 to 2015.
- Use highest 5 years to calculate civil service pensions, instead of 3.
- Ask Federal workers to contribute 1/2 the cost (not 1/14) for
fiscalcommission.gov: CoChair Draft pdf
For those interested in looking at larger and longer patterns of La Nina and El
Rick Ochoa's Predictive Services podcast (Fire Weather
Program Manager at NIFC), mp3 about 3 minutes
map that's referenced
National Wildland Significant Fire Potential Outlook (pdf 382 K)
I was first certified as a Firearms Safety Instructor in 1970, and have
taught in three states. Please let me remind all
of your readers who may be heading for the woods this fall to remember the
cardinal rule of gun safety: "Always point
the muzzle in a safe direction." Guns and ammunition malfunction.
Thoughts and prayers for the families of our firefighting comrades.
Does anyone have a copy or know where there might be a copy of
The details of the Tillamook fire from its origin to the salvage of the
killed timber [Unknown Binding]
William G Morris (Author)
Amazon says it's out of print.
# Publisher: U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, Forest Service, Pacific Northwest Forest
Experiment Station (1935)
# Language: English
# ASIN: B00089Y50O
I'd be curious to read it.
Remembering Captain Clyde ‘Frank’ Lang, 1923-2010
Remembering captain clyde frank lang 1923-2010
Just heard about Frank's passing. This was posted last fire season when I was
gone. What a
character, They broke the mold after he was born. RIP.
CO-WRF-Meadow Creek Fire tree branch injures firefighter:
Meadow Creek APA: firefighter was struck by a tree branch on the Meadow Creek
Fire, White River
National Forest on 7/5/10 (posted by Lessons Learned Center yesterday):
Creek APA (2,088 K
Thanks for the heads up roadrunner. Ab.
CA-CNF-Engine burn damage
The CNF FLA on the engine burn damage 9/23/10
(posted by Lessons Learned Center yesterday)
CNF Engine Damage FLA (917
K pdf file)
Thanks, roadrunner. Ab.
Porterville (OC) Organized Crew program shut down for 2011:
Making Local News
My deepest condolences to the family, friends and hotshots who knew the Pleasant
Valley Hotshot and the
Logan Hotshot who lost their lives with accidental gunshot wounds, this past
You are in my thoughts and prayers as I travel home, and always-
Fatal accidental gunshot wounds:
Saw something on CNBC last week and was
Did either fatal accident involve the popular Remington 700 rifle? There are
growing concerns that the "safety" can act as a trigger and the gun
can fire with no one ever pulling the trigger.
Documents Reveal Remington Wrestled with Potential Gun Safety Problems for
Deaths, injuries raise questions for popular Remington 700 rifle
Kent Swartzlander retirement:
Now that Kent is retiring, he'll have plenty of time to head back to our old
stomping grounds together...Washington D.C. I can't tell everyone how much I
miss him when I'm on the Hill and the incredible amount of time & effort he put
into the FWFSA and federal wildland firefighter issues over the years...or the
beer we consumed during our Hill journeys!
Our newest & youngest members need to know the sacrifices, contributions &
impact the earliest FWFSA members like
- Kent Swartzlander,
- Don Will,
- Dennis Baldridge,
- Pete Duncan,
- Rusty Witwer,
- Jeff Barnhart,
- Charles Beckman,
- Bob Bennett,
- Jon Bianchini,
- Don Bliss,
- Duane Brunson,
- Denny Bungarz,
- Barry Callenberger,
- Doug Campbell,
- Rodney Carlton,
- George Chapman,
- Autumn Clark,
- Rick Cowell,,
- Ken Crawford,
- Larry Craggs,
- Tony Duprey,
- Anthony Escobar,
- Sean Ferrell,
- Don Feser,
- Al Foley,
- Robert Frost,
- Richard Garner,
- Steve Griffin,
- Rich Haagenson,
- Gerald Herring,
- Jerry Horine,
- Michael Horney
- Mike Huhnke,
- Tim Huntington,
- Jerry Hurley,
- Thomas James,
- Paul Johnson,
- Ken & Charlotte Jordan,
- Carlton Joseph,
- Jeff Keiser,
- Greg Keller,
- Danielle Kissinger,
- Dan Kleinman,
- Pete Koerber,
- Robert Kress,
- Robert LaMay,
- Robert Laeng,
- Michael Lanier
- Mark Linane,
- Ron Linebarger,
- Merritt Lovejoy,
- Joaquin Marquez,
- Harley McGovran,
- Jerry McGowan,
- Joan McNamara,
- Chris Mehnne,
- Ray Mockli,
- David Montoya,
- Steven Montoya,
- Morris Moody,
- Tammy Mount,
- Mike Nobles,
- Gerald Ortega,
- Leticia Otero,
- Greg Overacker,
- Cliff Peay,
- Jeanne Pincha-Tulley,
- Steve Poulos,
- Steve Raymer,
- Richard Rios,
- Ron Rusten,
- Lynn Saunders,
- Brian Scott,
- Bob Serrato,
- Mark Smith,
- Stan Stewart,
- Jeff Stone,
- Larry Turman,
- Scott Vail,
- and others
made and continue to make today to support the FWFSA in an effort to provide
our Nation's federal wildland firefighters with the pay, benefits, working
conditions and recognition deserved for far too long.
The FWFSA's continuing existence, and the foundation for our continued
commitment to our wildland firefighters was forged by these men & women and
others. The only way we can repay them is to remain dedicated and persistent in
My sincerest best wishes to Mike & Kent.
Reads like a who's who of wildland firefighter leaders. Thanks FWFSA
The local news last night said Mike Minton, currently Chief 2, will become the
new FMO on the Six Rivers NF come January.
Minton, who performed as the Deputy Forest Fire Chief since 2006, brings
a broad diversity of skills and knowledge
to the position. Some of Minton's previous experience includes working for
the National Park Service at the Grand
Canyon National Park and working for the Bureau of Land Management on the
Northern District of California.
from the FS press release
Kent Swartzlander is retiring at the end of the year. Best wishes to you,
Kent! Thanks for your great service! Thanks for your
contributions to FWFSA in its formative years (and after) and your appearances
RE: Betty White as an Honorary Ranger -
I guess they finally found someone to sign the Forest Service wide NEPA decision
for prescribed burning.
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)
HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW.
FS web page. Ab
RE: Betty White as an Honorary Ranger
I would rather have Betty White on the fire line over most of the
"Line Officers". She would at least "act" like she knew what she was
doing unlike the so called "Line Officers". Betty for District Ranger
Did you hear about the latest attempt to boost morale at the Forest Service?
Betty White is being made an
honorary FS ranger, with about the same fire qualification as some of the real
See post below. Ab.
Hi Folks -
I'm looking for a quality webbing belt for my boyfriend. I've had one forever
that I got when working in
fire, but not sure where I got it.
This is the closest I've found:
nationalfirefighter.com but I'm
hoping for no velcro and a dull (not shiny) buckle.
Can anyone suggest a source?
Follow-up from National Firefighter: This belt in the link does not
have Velcro and the buckle is more of a brushed or satin finish than a polished
Here's a good location to discuss this: Hotlist
webbing belt thread Ab.
Making the rounds:
Smokejumping and the Science of Megafires
Published November 08, 2010 | Popular Mechanics
Are we in the age of megafires?
Many scientists think the era of megafires is upon us, and not just
because of the massive fires Russia suffered this year. Three of the eight
worst forest fire years on record occurred in the past 10 years, according
to fire experts.
A combination of rural development, climate change and years of
firefighting policies that allowed brush to accumulate have set the
conditions for massive blazes, and firefighters and researchers are
investigating new ways to understand and fight megafires. Popular Mechanics
visited the Fire Science Lab at Missoula, Mont. -- the birthplace of
"smokejumping" and the largest fire research lab in the world -- to get a
glimpse of how fire fighters use vast amounts of data, technology and some
high-risk DIY to defeat tomorrow's conflagrations.
There are approximately 150,000 firefighters in the United States. Nearly
75 percent are dedicated to urban and suburban structures; some 40,000 fight
forest fires, and then there are the handful of smokejumpers -- about 270 --
who parachute into the heart of a fire.
These extreme firefighters monitor a fire's movement and prescribe burns
to stop the spread. Missoula is home to the first and largest smokejumper
station in North America (there are six others), as well as one of the
world's largest fire sciences research laboratories.
For lots more on the science and lifestyle of smokejumpers,
see the full story on Popular Mechanics.
fair use disclaimer
making the rounds:
Betty White Honorary U.S. Forest Ranger; Webcast
At 11 am ET on Tuesday, November 9th, actress Betty White will be named an
Honorary US Forest Ranger by
Chief Tidwell at a ceremony being held at the Kennedy Center in Washington, DC.
Betty White has stated in numerous interviews that her first ambition as a young
girl was to become a forest ranger ---
but in those days such career paths were not open to women in the Forest
Watch this special Forest Service ceremony Tuesday, November 9 starting at 11:00
video/ (internal FS web for FS employees.)
The live video stream has open captioning
Porterville (OC) Organized Crew program shut down for 2011
In response to
The ability to identify personnel signing up for classes or a fire assignment
has not been an issue.
There is picture id program in place already, I saw back in 2007. Certainly,
there are 500 personnel,
and a fire staff of how many ? 2 or 3 maybe.
Up until a few years ago these crews bought their own gear. Accusations of
abuse from crew
leaders/organizers... sure I'll give you that. Possible, but,,, innocent until
proven guilty.. Right ...
There is no difference between that and the abuse that goes on in the agency as
This issue was resolved when Crew Leaders were removed two years ago. risk vs
gain. What again
is the issue? Accusations that have been floated, or current events.....
P.S. When was the last time you went to staff a crew there?
R5 fire hire:
"The most current information I have received from our selecting
officials is that this round's cert. Lists were intentionally
pulled prior to the IFPM cut off, so that the standards will not be
selection criteria this time but they will in the future."
Well, this is a yes and no thing...I was a SME there, and positions that had
IFPM quals were looked at for quals after all.
BUT, Anyone who would have made the position except for IFPM quals were put into
Level 3, which can still be selected.
Remember, the levels:
Level 1 is fully qualified, and HAVE PERFORMED IN THE POSITION BEFORE,
either paid, temp promotion,
detail, or acting.
Level 2 is that you have all the quals, and are certified in a SIMILAR
BUT NOT EXACT POSITION. Example being a
Handcrew captain putting in for an Engine captain job at the same level.
Level 3 is missing a qualification, such as needing a class, a
taskbook, or IFPM.
Example being putting in for an Engine Captain position without being ENGB,
(or, now, missing an IFPM qual.) These
folks usually are not considered until all Level 1 and 2 are gone thru, but this
round only, can be offered.
Level 4 is either bad references, or someone has asked to have their
app pulled from that round. These folks can
not be considered at all .
Sacramento Memorial support needed.
I have a fallen pilot's family coming to
Sacramento on Wednesday to see the Memorial there.
I need someone to escort them to the memorial. It is a wife and two daughters.
Please contact me if you can help.
Email me at: director@ nospam wffoundation.org or call 208-336-2996.
Thanks so much
Wildland Firefighter Foundation
You would need to do some research on the terms reinstatement rights, career
status and career conditional status.
A Federal Employees Almanac or some intensive web searching and you will find
But the fact is no one who leaves federal service will get that federal job
back or any federal job back without
competing (applying) for it. It is extremely rare to see non-competitive
reinstatements. Not impossible, but I've
never seen it happen in the Forest Service. The Merit Promotion Plan might also
I'm aware that this issue was passed around a few
months ago, but with regard to reinstatement eligibility... If a former
employee was to comeback to the agency within the allowable time limit, what or
where is that person placed if their
previous position has already been filled? (ex. Engine captain position was
filled and there are no more vacant positions
on the district or forest, what now?)
the comeback kid???
On Thursday, Nov. 4, Dalton Lasater was killed by an accidental gunshot wound.
Dalton was a member of the Pleasant Valley Hotshots, Tonto NF. He was a young
ball of energy with a bright future in the agency. He is deeply missed. Our
prayers, thoughts and hopes go out to his family and all of those lucky enough
to call him friend.
The funeral will be held Wednesday, Nov. 10 in Palo Cedro, CA at Allen and Dahl
Funeral Home, 1500hrs.
Cards and letters of condolence can be sent to'
23972 State Hwy. 44
Milleville, CA 96062
Please keep his family in yours thoughts and prayers,
Pleasant Valley Hotshots
Sad news. Condolences to family and friends. Ab.
Most recent commentary on termination of the Porterville Organized Crews:
R5 fire hire:
The most current information I have received from our selecting officials is
that this round's cert. lists were intentionally
pulled prior to the IFPM cut off, so that the standards will not be selection
criteria this time but they will in the future.
That being said, my assumption is that they may run in to roadblocks as the
effective dates would be after the standards
are in effect, so we shall see. I have already seen ASC deny temporary promotion
SF-52's for people who did not meet
IFPM and were selected for the promotion prior to Oct 1 but the effective date
was after Oct 1. So the date the cert
list was pulled may be a moot point with ASC as they are concerned with the
employees position effective date. Hopefully
there was discussion with ASC by those way above me and I'm just being a
Great posts Mike and Casey.
Hopefully the FWFSA can be effective in the next session of Congress. What we
all need to do is to continue to support Casey
through getting the word out and joining the FWFSA. We're all facing budget
changes this year and in the future, we need our
voice in Congress fighting for us now more than ever.
Doug Frederick, Spokane WA
R5 fire hire:
R-5 Fire Hire job offers start this week. Does anyone know if
they are going to allow job offers to go to applicants
who don't meet IFPM requirements for the IFPM position(s) they applied to in
Brit Rosso, former Arrowhead IHC Squad ldr., Capt., and Supt. as well as SEKI
overhead is now the director
of the Lessons Learned Center. EODs sometime this month.
That's great news! Excellent work by Dave Christenson as acting
director, also. Here are some pictures of the participants:
Please post this with Casey's Post.
I enjoyed Casey
2003 Old Fire: Chuck Henry rescue:
For those of you who actually witnessed
Chuck Henry being rescued and those who don't know, here is a
picture of the event. The only portion of the news van visible is the aerial
boom in front of the Joshua Tree
National Park engine.
Thanks MA. I added it to the
Fire 45 photo page. Wow. Click on the thumbnail for the larger photo. Ab.
the complete letter (85 K pdf file) the FWFSA received from Mr.
Eugene Warner last week
regarding allegations about the Esperanza Fire. I sincerely appreciate the
responses I've already received
about this matter.
If this letter helps anyone recall this person or his motives, please don't
hesitate to let me know.
Popcorn Machine Code 3
It was nice to catch some night air before the film festival in Spokane, thanks
to the Spokane FD popcorn machine.
Yes, more folks should attend the IAWF conferences. The film night theme will
Thinking of Barb Bonefeld...
Barb was wearing her Nomex when laid to rest this
afternoon. A representative of the Honor Guard
attended along with her friends and family. God has welcomed her home.
Old Fire Guy
Thank you very much Old Fire Guy for attending. I can imagine her in
nomex. RIP, Barb. Thanks to the Honor Guard rep, too. Ab.
I'm curious if anyone off the BDF or who knows anything at all about the
Esperanza Fire tragedy and subsequent criminal proceedings is familiar with
someone named Eugene Warner.
The FWFSA recently received a letter from him and sent to all sorts of others
including politicians, judges, local government fire departments, Dept. of
Justice and the Riverside County grand jury among others, claiming all those
listed in his letter, including the FWFSA were "playing the dumb card;" that the
fire actually started on the 25th of October 2006 on Esperanza Ave. in Cabazon;
that those listed have lied by saying the fire started on the 26th and demanding
that the conviction of Raymond Lee Oyler be overturned and he, Mr. Warner
receive the reward for revealing who started the fire on the 25th.
He is threatening legal action if his demands are not met but in all candor, his
grammar and spelling don't demonstrate a great deal of credibility. He further
states that it would give him " great pleasure to tell a jury all the things
that were done to perjury (sp) your self."
These are serious allegations, especially towards the FWFSA which had no part in
the investigation or the subsequent criminal litigation. If anyone in the
community can shed some light on this individual and his intentions, please feel
free to contact me directly at 208-775-4577 or by email at
Thinking of Barb... Missing Barb.
Barb Bonefeld was the Fire Staff Officer for
the Huron-Manistee NF. Those wishing to do so can make a donation in Barb's name
to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation
CADILLAC, Mich. - Barbara Ann Bonefeld, 54, of Cadillac, Mich., former
Escanaba resident, passed away Oct. 29, 2010, at Mercy Hospital in Cadillac.
She was born June 28, 1956, in Escanaba, and was the daughter of George and
Jeanne (Schrader) Bonefeld Sr. Barbara graduated from Escanaba High School
in 1974, then from Michigan Technological University in Houghton with a B.S.
degree in forestry and later from Michigan State University with a M.S. in
forest genetics in 1981. Barbara was employed with the U.S. Forest Service
for almost 30 years, working in many different locations mostly in the
western United States. She was first employed in forest genetics and later
in forest fire management. She was also an instructor for forest fire
Barbara Ann Bonefeld is survived by: two brothers, Dr. George (Linda)
Bonefeld of Marquette, Dr. Robert Bonefeld of Treasurer Island, Fla.;
several nieces and nephews.
She was preceded in death by her parents, George Sr. and Jeanne Bonefeld.
Visitation will be held from 1:30 to 2:30 p.m. Thursday, Nov. 4, at the
Anderson Funeral Home in Escanaba, Michigan. Funeral services celebrating
the life of Barbara Ann Bonefeld will be held at 2:30 p.m. Thursday at the
Anderson Funeral Home Chapel with Rev. Scott White officiating. Burial will
take place in the Lakeview Cemetery. The Anderson Funeral Home is assisting
the family with the arrangements and online condolences can be sent to the
family at www.andersonfuneralhomes.net.
Wildland firefighters MI-HMF
Thanks for the info. Appreciate it and your note of explanation. Ab.
SQF OC program shutdown:
I heard that out of the 500 employees only 30 needed
documentation. The other 470 cleared the audit.
From what I know of IQCS they would not get a red card anyway.
Dispatch System guidance:
Can anyone help me locate the document that served
as guidance to go to centralized, initial attack dispatch centers.
As I remember, it was an element identified in the 1994 South Canyon IMRT
Report. I believe Cyndie Hogg led a
group to produce this document that addressed the recommendation to go from 4
tiered, to a 3 tiered dispatch systems.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Should be Retired
SQF OC program shutdown:
A lot of us have gotten our crewboss trainee quals signed off by working with
the OC crews.
A lot of good Hispanic FS and BLM firefighters have started on those crews.
Does any of this have to do with documentation of citizenship?
I hope the baby's not being thrown out with the dishwater whatever kind of
documentation is necessary. Just get 'er done.
Do you mean bathwater or do you wash your babies with the dishes? Just
wondering. (Tongue firmly in cheek!) Ab.
SQF OC program:
Not sure what is going on with the OC program on the Sequoia but I came
across this email. I have
redacted the names of people mentioned due to privacy reasons. Read on people
Concerned about the program
Letter from SQF Forest Supe (22 K rtf)
Dirty Jobs episode
I agree with "just my opinion" on the Dirty Jobs episode. I
think it painted us all in a poor light. Makes us look
somewhat "cowboy" like as a profession. I just hope this episode doesn't get a
lot of air time. Too bad these
folks made the choice to go along with what the producers probably wanted
instead of showing us as a group
of professional wildland firefighters.
SQF OC program:
The SQF Forest Supervisor is out of her mind to shut down this
successful OC program.
In its 70 years of existence it has assisted in fire suppression and
emergency incidents all over the US. It has provided quality
training for our firefighters, crewbosses overhead, and gave us highly qualified
With the loss of 15 TY2 crews in our region fires will be more destructive, cost
more to the taxpayers, and jeopardize public and
firefighter safety. I hope the National office will see the error of her ways.
We still have not seen any kind of official communication on this, and if
true, we don't know if this order comes from the forest or from the region or
higher up. Ab.
SQF OC program:
Porterville Organized Crews
(48 K pdf file)
About this issue. I can guarantee this is true. Does the WO know of this bad
I've also backed up the file on wlf.com under
Porterville Organized Crews. (same 48 K pdf file) Ab.
SQF Oc program:
The crews are made up largely of minorities and they're said
to be great, hard and productive workers.
this article from April 2008, people.bakersfield.com :
Wildland fire season approaching
Date: April 30, 2008
Contact: Mary Chislock, Public Affairs Officer
Fire Crews Gear Up
For the 2008 Wildland Fire Season
PORTERVILLE, CA – The Sequoia National Forest/Giant Sequoia National
Monument Organized Crew (OC) program is again gearing up for this year’s
wildland fire season. “This program has been in existence for nearly 50
years on the Sequoia National Forest. Over 450 crewmembers are recruited
locally and hired by the Forest Service for ("On-call national and local
emergencies,” stated Tina Terrell, Forest Supervisor)
The recruits are temporary employees, dispatched nationwide to emergency
incidents requiring 365-day availability. The 15 crews hired are
into three firefighting sectors called the Cobras, Black Eagles, and
Scorpions. In addition, two to three camp crews are also hired to
support duties in fire camp.
“These firefighting crews are well known for their work on
and projects throughout California and other parts of the nation. This
temporary workforce is an invaluable supplement to the wildland fire
fighting resources of the Sequoia National Forest/Giant Sequoia National
Monument,” stated Brent Skaggs, Fire Management Officer.
The OC crews are supervised by agency personnel and follow the same
national training requirements for all wildland fire duties. Upon
successful completion of the work capacity test, each crewmember receives
an additional 40 hours of required Annual Fire Safety Refresher training.
Leadership positions, selected from the crews complete additional training.
For more information about the Sequoia National Forest Organized Crew
program, contact Robert Benik at (559) 784-1500.
There are pics of the Cobras, Black Eagles and Scorpions:
Handcrews 26 photo page
I don't know why SQF would cut a program that has success in hiring and
training minorities to such a
high standard of work ethic as these crews are reputed to have.
Does anyone have a memo that the crews are being cut? If true, wonder what is
Are you serious? Is this confirmed or talk around the campfire? If so
this will be a major loss after such a
long history of good work from these crews.
Please provide some contact to push this issue up the chain to be heard by
the right people.
SQF OC program
Can anyone tell us more about shutting down the SQF Organized Crews. Is this
an attempt to engineer minorities?
SQF OC program Shut Down
This program has been providing 500 firefighters for
70 years. With no leader's intent Sequoia Nation Forest is
shutting the program down. This program is used regionally and nationally to
support wildfires. Also used as a
training center for 70 or 80 crew boss and trainees a year.
Looking for input. Aka. Support at the regional or national forest.
(OC = Organized Crew) Ab.
The elections are over so now what for federal wildland firefighters:
Not surprisingly, Republicans regained control of the US House of
Representatives yesterday. Somewhat of an electorate "self-correction" after
several years of the same party running the Administration & Congress.
Fascinating to me is that many who voted against the Democratic majority because
it represented big spending, big government and an intrusive government, voted
because the government hadn't done enough to fix unemployment, the economy etc.
Maybe I'm the only one bewildered.
Regardless of the outcome, the FWFSA has for years worked very hard to forge
relationships with those on both sides of the aisle. I cannot explain the
lackadaisical response to our legislation in Congress this year except to chalk
it up to this being the weirdest, most partisan session I've encountered in 17
years. We did receive a personal acknowledgement from the Congressman who
introduced our bill that the staffer assigned to it "dropped the ball" in moving
I think we did do a good job of educating many who previously were unaware of
the issues facing federal wildland firefighters. The recent Station Fire hearing
in Pasadena, CA also helped build a foundation for next session. Perhaps the
Democrats will learn something from all this although history shows that
regardless of who is in charge, they eventually get blamed for everything and
the electorate makes a change.
What we will be working on in the coming weeks is any input we can make with the
Republicans with respect to committee assignments especially for those who
represent the 11 western-most states. As even the Station Fire hearing
congressional panel noted, none of them were on committees of jurisdiction for
federal wildfire issues.
I am personally hopefully Rep. Elton Gallegly (R-CA) and a cosponsor of our bill
will move up on the Natural Resources Committee and that Darrell Issa (R-CA) a
previous cosponsor to our PTP bill a few years ago will move up to Chair the
Oversight & Government Reform Committee.
All in all I don't think there will be a negative impact to our efforts on
behalf of federal wildland firefighters. What folks should be cautioned about is
the overall congressional attitude and achievements in the next session. If
gridlock didn't smack us all in the face this session with a Democratic led
Administration & Congress, wait until you have the Democratic Administration and
Senate, and a new Republican majority in the House. Navigating that will not be
for the faint of heart!
Re 2003 Old Fire: Chuck Henry rescue:
Thanks to Fire Geek for giving credit to
Steve Elenberg (Old Fire 2003,
Chuck Henry rescue). I was an eye witness to this rescue and Steve truly
earned the DOI Valor Award that day. Extremely brave actions on Steve's
part. If you ask Steve about it he'll tell you it was nothing compared to a
flood rescue that was really scary...
Re Dirty Jobs Episode - Wildland Firefighting:
So, I just watched the episode.
Looks like a lot of "mishaps" on national TV. Lighting off a flaming front and
figuring out that the fan boat is stuck. Nice. The guy that accidently
discharges the pistol in the woman's ear? My
god. He looks like he shouldn't even be in nomex, let alone handling a firing
pistol. I must say it's a great show
usually, too bad it made us look, in my opinion, like idiots.
Just My Opinion
I've thought about putting some thoughts about today's election in writing for
some time. It is long so I have attached it. Perhaps
you could create a link to it so those who might be interested in reading it can
without taking up a lot of space on TheySaid.
A thought provoking solution. Here's the link to the document.
A Political Perspective. Please communicate directly with Casey if you so
Ab, please post. Thanks
2006 vs 2010 Standards (35K
These are the new standards for the apprentice program. It's been in the
makings since 2008. You should start
to see a major decrease in the amount of vacant GS-5 SRFF in R5 within the next
6 months to a year.
Please consider who supports wildland firefighters when making your choices.
Sad News - Barbara Bonefeld has passed away
Hey Ab - this came through on
Lotus Notes yesterday, didn't see anything on They Said -
Barb was one of the "good guys", One of our few female ICs.
I'm sure folks would like to know...a sad day for fire management.
Dear Forest Service Friends and Family,
With sadness, I regret to inform you that Barbara Bonefeld, Huron-ManisteeNational Forest Fire Staff Officer, passed away peacefully today at 1215
following a brief illness.
Thank you for your prayers and support for Barb during her illness!
We'll share information on arrangements as they develop.
Huron-Manistee National Forests
Barb was the former IC of the Fire Use Management Team and EA T2 IMT. One
of her noteworthy achievements was development of the
Mack Lake staff ride.
Rest in Peace dear friend and colleague.
Laura A. McIntyre-Kelly, Center Manager, EACC
Condolences. A great and surprising loss. Barb was a fine firefighter,
fine fire leader, a friend and a contributor here. Smart, quietly funny
and determined. I'll miss her. Please keep us informed about services, where to
send condolences and other arrangements. Ab.
Here is a letter from the Secretary of the Department of Conservation and
also Governor Schwarzenegger complimenting Cal Fire Director Del Walters
on his job performance. Walters retires next month.
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:11 PM
To: Undisclosed recipients
Subject: Message from the Chief & Statement from Governor Schwarzenegger
Monthly Message from the CAL FIRE Chief
In June of 1971, when I first reported for duty as a seasonal firefighter in
King City, I had no idea that I had begun a career, much less that I would close
out that career as Director of one of the finest public safety and resource
protection departments in the world.
Last month I made it known that I would retire this year, and during the month
of October I spent much more time considering the future of CAL FIRE than
reminiscing. Therefore, I am taking the opportunity in my last message as Chief
to convey topics I think are of great importance to the future of CAL FIRE.
- Cooperative Fire Protection Agreements - Maintain a sound
perspective regarding cooperative fire protection agreements. Our
cooperative fire protection contracts are of immense benefit to the people
of this state. This program provides values that are often lost in the
controversies focused on how much we charge, recovering our costs and labor
issues. Our stance needs to remain firm; conduct business in a transparent,
consistent manner and employ defendable methodologies for accepting/renewing
contracts and ensuring that we are adequately reimbursed for the services we
provide. The comprehensive, integrated services that CAL FIRE provides are
essential to the success of California's mutual aid system, particularly
when extraordinary emergency events occur.
- Relationship with the Board of Forestry and Fire Protection - During
my tenure, I feel the Department completed several significant
accomplishments in cooperation with the Board. I believe the groundwork is
in place to continue and improve on that cooperation.
- Relationship with our federal partners - California's' fire
protection responsibility is roughly divided into thirds: one third of the
state is designated as Federal Responsibility Area, one third as State
Responsibility Area, and one third as Local Government Responsibility Area.
It's important to foster a strong relationship with our federal partners,
regardless of our sometimes divergent fire control objectives. Understanding
their policies, and ensuring ours are understood, as well, is critical. We
must also assert our voice in the management policies of the federally
managed lands in this state.
- Involvement in local, state, national and international emergency
and resource management efforts - Our collective experience in managing
large and complex emergency incidents and protecting natural resources in a
changing environment is of great value locally and globally. We need to
- Office of the State Fire Marshal (OSFM) integration - Much progress
has been made to integrate the services provided by the OSFM into CAL FIRE,
but I believe there are still efficiencies to be realized by integrating
those services down to the unit level.
- Relationship with the Governor's Office - Governor Schwarzenegger
has been very supportive of public safety and CAL FIRE. I hope my successor
will have the good fortune to enjoy a similar relationship with the incoming
administration. I encourage the department's leadership to take a proactive
approach in building a rapport with the new governor and their staff.
- Relationships with legislators - It is imperative we reinvigorate
the Key Contact Program which is intended to empower unit staff to engage
legislators, and pursue opportunities for the Director and Headquarters
staff to meet with legislators. Maintaining open lines of communication is
essential in providing the protection outlined in our mission statement to
the citizens of the state of California.
- Relationship with labor - It's important to sustain the relationship
between the department and CDF Firefighters. By minimizing our differences
and maximizing our common areas of concern, we have been able to focus on
accomplishing the department's mission. Mutual respect and having to agree
to disagree on some issues have been key to maintaining productive
- Grant coordination - Our department needs to have a coordinated
approach to grant acquisition and administration. A grants unit needs to be
developed within the department that coordinates the availability, pursuit
and administration of grants.
- Maintain strong centralized policy and decentralized decision-making -
of our Unit Chiefs have responsibilities tantamount to any other large fire
department chief in this country. In fact, many of them bear the
responsibilities of multiple fire chiefs. The Region Chiefs should be the
guardians of how we operate. In coordination with our program managers, they
must insist on compliance with policy; policy which they must have a voice
in establishing or changing.
- Every employee of CAL FIRE should be allowed an avenue to bring
about change. I encourage anyone with an idea to work through your chain of
command and bring it to the newly formed Management Council. Every rank has
the ability to contribute to the direction of our department.
- Fire Protection Resource Allocation - Last, but certainly not least,
we need to take a fresh look at the way we allocate our fire protection
resources in California. The complexities of this state have changed, as
have the challenges of serving and safeguarding the people and protecting
the property and natural resources of this state. A comprehensive review of
our capabilities is overdue.
This list is in no way comprehensive or in order of priority, rather it's
intended as a message to the future leaders of CAL FIRE who are tasked with
taking this department forward.
Change is inevitable and we all must be prepared to adapt. Last month I
shard with you my wife's declining health, which coupled with the vagaries
that accompany change, mean that today is my last day as an employee of the
State of California. Tomorrow I will be retired.
There may have been a day I didn't want to come to work, but I can't
remember that day. That includes this morning. What makes today different is
that I will be driving home from work for the last time, and have chosen to
do so in my work uniform; a uniform that I have worn proudly for nearly 40
I can't begin to express my gratitude to all who have supported me. It has
been very fulfilling to work with the teams with which I have been blessed.
That is the primary reason I can go on to another chapter of my life knowing
I leave CAL FIRE in good hands.
The November 2010 "Message from the Chief" has been posted on the CAL FIRE
Chief Monthly Memo
Governor Schwarzenegger Issues Statement on Retirement of CAL FIRE Director
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger today issued the following statement on the
retirement of California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL
FIRE) Director Del Walters:
"Del Walters has dutifully served the people of California for nearly 40
years at CAL FIRE and there is no doubt that his outstanding leadership
during some of our most intense disasters saved lives," said Governor
Schwarzenegger. "Del has demonstrated an exceptional commitment to the
people of California during his career of service, and I wish him the best
in his future endeavors."
California Secretary for Natural Resources Agency Lester A. Snow today
designated Chief Ken Pimlott as acting director of CAL FIRE.
The memo below is sent on behalf of Secretary Snow.
Several weeks ago Del Walters announced his intention to retire to respond
to family needs. That day has come. CAL FIRE Director Del Walters will
step down today and retire after nearly 40 years of dedicated service to the
California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
Chief Walters is a fantastic person, who through a sense of steady calm,
balanced command and unwavering leadership has guided CAL FIRE through some
challenging and difficult times. Be it fighting some of the state's most
significant fire sieges, saving countless lives and protecting property to
the not so easy management of political activity in the field and here in
Sacramento, he's done it all with grace and good humor. We wish Del, Janet
and the entire Walters family well.
Effective at the close of business today, I am appointing CAL FIRE's Deputy
Director of Fire protection Ken Pimlott as CAL Fire's acting director.
Please afford him all the support and consideration possible to ensure a
From all of us: Thanks for your service, Chief. Ab.
High-resolution, Structure Threatened photo needed.
Let me preface this
request by saying that this is a worthy cause and we don't have many WUI photos
of suitable resolution for a project like this.
Community, my suggestion to Jenny is that firefighters could send their
WUI (Wildland Urban Interface) fire photos directly to her.
Jenny agreed enthusiastically that this could be a week-long competition
and we could feature a small version of the winning photo at the end, if the
winner wished to have his/her winning photo displayed.
Having your photo on 6 billboards sounds pretty awesome to me.
Contact Jenny at JLZeltvay@ (nospam) co.josephine.or.us (Take out
the nospam in parentheses and the spaces.) Ab.
We are trying to find a Wildland Urban Interface fire photo showing
structures threatened to use on wildfire billboards to be placed in six
locations in Josephine County, Oregon. Attached please find a rough draft of
the billboard using one photo from wildlandfire.com. If permission is
granted, is it possible I could be mailed a higher resolution of the photo
so it will show up better on the billboard?
Thanks very much!
Josephine County Emergency Management/Search & Rescue
JLZeltvay@ (nospam) co.josephine.or.us
A number of older photos mid '80's on, from Karl Elze, Sr.
Thanks Karl. I
posted them on
Engines 28, and
Equipment 18 photo pages. Ab.
Have attached a picture of the Cachagua Terra Torch (New Generation Torch) doing
a burn for BLM in Fresno County.
Nice. I put it on
Equipment 18 photo page. Ab.
Ab, here are some cool pics from the OR-RSF-Oak Flat Fire, August 2010. LP
Thanks, I put them on
Handcrews 27 and
Handcrews 28 photo pages. Nice flames. Ab.
Little Tujunga Reunion, 2010: Attached are pictures of Little Tujunga Hot
Shot Reunion, October 23, 2010. I am sure there are members of that crew that
would like to see them. There were several crew members that planners were not
able to contact. Larry Sall gave permission for you to post.
Thank you, Gordon Rowley
Message with the photos:
Here are some pictures Jimmy Smith's kid took at the reunion. There's a big
group picture then he breaks it down into the individual pictures of each year
starting with 1970. I'm sorry some of you couldn't make it. It was worth every
What a motley collection. Looks like a fun reunion. I posted crew photos
Handcrews 28 photo page. There were 4 photos that had older members, no year
was specified on the photos. They are not currently posted. If anyone would like
to see those, contact Ab.
The 4 logo cake photos are posted on the
Logo 19 photo page.