Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:36 PM
Subject: CAL FIRE ICT Announcement

Greetings:

Yesterday Chief Pimlott announced to the Unit Chiefs and CAL FIRE Team ICs that CAL FIRE will be making some adjustments to its ICTs. Specifically he said:

• We will be changing our names to Incident Management Teams in order to be more uniform with NIMS and other organized teams throughout the nation.
• There is a committee working on steps to allow for a smaller CAL FIRE IMT to be dispatched to incidents, made up of existing members from a CAL FIRE IMT. This would allow us to send a "short team" or "long team" as dictated by the incident, not a roster.
• We will be moving to statewide teams, not regional teams. His goal is for this to occur in 2013. The committee will also be working out the details on how this will work. Their instructions are to make a plan to ensure that we can transition these IMTs to an incident as quickly as possible, anywhere in the state, using this statewide team.
• As we will be going to statewide teams, we will reduce the number ofteams to 6, keeping the same one week rotation. While we don't have details at this point, it will not be a matter of simply cutting four existing teams.

Finally, you and I, as well as the rest of the department take great pride in our work on Team 4. There will be some stressful decisions made in the coming months and everyone recognizes this. This was not an easy decision to make, and the Chief thought long and hard about this decision. He and his staff stated that they will remain flexible with all of these decisions through the transition. We will need to do the same.

As we receive additional information, Joe, Mike or I will pass it on.

Thank you,

Eric Hoffmann
West Division Operations
Sonoma-Lake-Napa Unit
CAL FIRE
Incident Commander, Team 4

I was asked to post this pdf file as info to add to the discussion.

It came from 2005 when California FS Forests and Districts had massive vacancies.

A Full Time Workforce (170 K pdf)

Food for discussion.... Ab.

ok I made my 2012 pledge early and bought a lotto ticket (finger crossed)

KC

You guys OK with the tornadoes in your area?

Mellie

Hey all,

I'm looking for a part number and/or source for an adapter to connect a Larsen PHW-150 whip antenna to the power port on a BK handheld.

I'm hoping that's a commercially available part, as our comm tech is out of commission for the foreseeable future.

Thanks!

Skunk Ape

Condolences to all

www.redding.com/news/2012/feb/29/chp-officer-firefiighter-involved-traffic-wreck-i/

DG

Thanks, DG, also here: Hotlist: Shift Briefing Very sad. Feel free to leave condolences on that thread or send them in and I will post them there. Ab.

Right now the WFF is hurting for funds, as are many non-profits. If anyone in our community has any spare change or gets an income tax return, now or sometime this spring would be a good time to kick in a donation. I am. I think I'll also go buy one lottery ticket. We need to make sure our WFF safety net is able to withstand anything that might come along. Ab.

It’s that time of year again where we ask for everyone’s help to come support our fundraiser and have a good time. Last year’s event around 330 people attended and we sent a check to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation for $7,500. It turned out to be a fun family event with lots of things to eat, drink and win in raffles. It was a success thanks to everyone spreading the word and helping us gather things for the raffle and silent auction. There were a few obstacles last year that we worked around and have planned for this year. We are planning on most everything being the same: raffle, food, drinks, kids entertainment, live music and a good time. Last year was the first and things can only get better this year!

This year we have made an addition to our fundraising efforts, we have added CASA. This stands for Court Appointed Special Advocates. This will locally help children who are abused or severely neglected get advocacy during their social services and family court dealings.

We felt we could help out the fire community and share the profits with kids that need us.

The Wildland Firefighter Foundation is close to our hearts, they have helped us directly several times and we know the need for their services. We also see the need to help the children, they get put through things that no one should ever have to. Someone needs to speak for them and that is what CASA’s do.

We will split the profits 50-50 and our goal for this event is to raise $10,000 for $5,000 each. If you have questions please call myself or the base. If you have items for raffle or silent auction please call. I hope everyone can pass this along and attend. I attached a flyer, one correction is the times, we will start at 11, and go until the beverages are gone.

Please RSVP and buy tickets in advance, this helps us a ton with planning for food.

Go to eldoradohotshots.org for more info and to buy tickets. For more info on CASA look at www.casaeldorado.org and www.wffoundation.org for the foundation.

Thanks and hope to see you there, come have a fun filled afternoon with us.

Aaron Humphrey
Eldorado Hotshots
(530) 644-3588 office
(530) 306-2356 cell

Thanks, Aaron and Eldorado Shots. Good luck, have fun, and I hope you can make some big bucks!

Northnight

Is Anaheim Fire Department too white?
Orange County Register

ANAHEIM – The city's Fire Department is envisioning a staff of firefighters more reflective of the cultures and ethnicities found in the city. That means recruiting more women, Latinos, Asian Americans and Arab Americans, among others, to mirror Anaheim's changing demographics, fire Chief Randy Bruegman said. Anaheim's fire force overall is 73 percent white, 18 percent Latino and 6 percent Asian, while the city's population is 52 percent Latino, 30 percent white and 14 percent Asian. Among sworn firefighters, 75 ... (More at link)

It is so wonderful that they heard what was being said in their fire work environment sessions. Most of what I heard was give us hiring authority back for Perms so we can hire the right person or thing for the job. Instead we lose hiring rights for temps. We are not the only region, though. Currently only Region 1 and 3 have released hiring authority for rehires. New hires are shut down nation-wide. The only way for us to reach a hiring system that is a true EEO hiring is remove names and any type of identifying information from the hiring process. You will be known as applicant 112 please notify your references of this.

Someone in a Regional Office 150 miles from the nearest National Forest in the highest locality pay in the nation has no clue what diversity is or what it is supposed to be. Though they read a book about it once. Personally, I think we are part of some GS fantastic study to see how far you can push an organization and group of people until it completely collapses and fails.

Mr. Millar,

Your predecessor had problems distinguishing what was in his best interest from what was right. I would hope you do not have the same issue. That you would fight this fight. It’s not like Randy can fire you. We cannot even reprimand and discipline our employees Forest Service wide. So not a whole lot to worry about. By the time the adverse action catches up, you will be retired. The system is broke because of poor leadership and a need to protect personal careers. It is time for you to stand up, protect and make stronger the organization that Q built. Show us you can do that and we will follow you all the way. Actions speak louder than words.

Casey,

Keep up the good fight. F the small minded, small picture critics. An act of Congress is only two more chains away. If we don’t keep digging, we will never make it there. My thought would be to solicit some people to come to DC with you. I know the budget is small and the Association cannot afford to do that, but I would be willing to pay my way to bend a few ears after having a Lobbying 101 class from you. I’m sure there are several others.

Northnight

I am trying to figure out who you're talking about when you say the FS has too many paper shuffling employees or less qualified employees. I'm thinking through everyone I know who works for the FS and I can't think of one I would describe that way. Well, I can think of one. He was fired some months ago...

I have written many a letter in my life, held parties for letter writing, made phone calls to DC and locally; in days past I encouraged my students to call their congressional reps, worked to elect people who represent my values.

I think I'll go the voting-out route with respect to the House and Senate, all due respect to Casey's willingness to educate.

Ab, feel free to forward my email to Exfed and anyone else that wants to be political pen pals. We could carry on this conversation behind the scenes. I have an elephantine list of people in Washington DC to share with him that I would write if I thought it would do any good, but primarily I'm working to get people to exercise their right and responsibility to vote in elections coming up.

Mellie

Tell the lawmakers to focus on rebuilding the FS into the agency that it was originally created to be, and then work to get rid of the sycophant administrators who are steering the ship while it is sinking. Write to those in congress and tell them what you do to protect the national forests. Tell them about what wildland firefighters have done and are doing in often dangerous conditions to protect and serve this country. Tell them that the FS once was the premier wildland firefighting agency in the world but through political and mindless administration it has dropped near the bottom of agencies that people would want to work for. Tell them that you want the FS to be an agency of government that is seen, not as just another politically-correct agency, but an agency of men and women willing to answer the alarm in the most effective and efficient manner possible. Tell them that you are willing to stand up and fight to protect this country. Ask them if they are willing to do the same. Ask them to take wildland fire control out of the hands of line officers.

Exfed (a retiree proud to have been a wildland firefighter)

I am simply dumbfounded that in the midst of such turbulent change, the only thing we are talking about is the biggest backfire that occurred 30 years ago.

Casey Judd said:

It is the Agency Line Officers who, in my humble little opinion, have no business managing the fire program or its appropriated dollars.

I cannot agree more with these two statements. We are not far away from the beginning of a significant movement similar in scale as what we did in 2007-2008.

However, I cannot emphasize enough that the facts are clear and simple. Some elected officials hate federal employees and as much as we would like to separate into more of a centralized organizational structure, we will never get away from being federal employees. Some elected officials want 5 years of frozen wages. Some elected officials want to eliminate current pension benefits signed into law by Ronald Reagan. Some elected officials would shutdown this government without blinking an eye. Some elected officials would rather argue about birth control and how to destroy a presidency than reach out and work together. Note to some elected officials - It's 2012 not 1912.

The first step is November 6, 2012. Get rid of the people that hate you. It's that simple. Start now and work, volunteer to get rid of elected officials who hate federal employees. Then and only then will the message be sent and we can stop talking about what's the largest backfire in history and force the debate on how we are organized, respond, paid and supported.

It's simple. We need less Darryl Issa's. etc.

We need more elected officials who think like this:

"I have pledged myself and my colleagues in the cabinet to a continuous encouragement of initiative, responsibility and energy in serving the public interest. Let every public servant know, whether his post is high or low, that a man's rank and reputation in this Administration will be determined by the size of the job he does, and not by the size of his staff, his office or his budget. Let it be clear that this Administration recognizes the value of dissent and daring -- that we greet healthy controversy as the hallmark of healthy change. Let the public service be a proud and lively career. And let every man and woman who works in any area of our national government, in any branch, at any level, be able to say with pride and with honor in future years: 'I served the United States Government in that hour of our nation's need.'"

"Government service must be attractive enough to lure our most talented people. It must be challenging enough to call forth our greatest efforts. It must be interesting enough to retain their services. It must be satisfying enough to inspire single-minded loyalty and dedication. It must be important enough to each individual to call forth reserves of energy and enthusiasm. "During my fourteen years in Congress I have had an opportunity to observe and to admire the high quality of our Career Civil Service. In meeting the grave problems confronting us at home and abroad it is my intention that the Career Civil Service be a full partner. Together we can lead our Nation to new peaks of achievement."

"You, the Federal employee, provide the mind and muscle for carrying out national and international policies, commitments, and programs. You have done exceedingly well, but the days ahead will be more demanding -- and, I hope, richer in the personal satisfactions of high achievement. "Increased productivity can come from an increased sense of purpose. I urge you to seek a fuller understanding of your job in relationship to our total national endeavor. Our country counts on you to meet the special challenge with a special effort." John F. Kennedy

Thank you for voting this November!

Centralize Fire Management - Today, Tomorrow and Forever!

A wildland fire community member emailed me with photos of a number of Engines -- Model 34 -- that have developed cracks in the water tank. Ab asked questions (in bold) about the problem, the fix and the lessons to be learned. His replies are in indented blockquote.

Currently the CAL FIRE Model 34 Engines' tanks are failing. The effects?

When the tank cracks appear the engine begins a slow loss of water externally. It gets to a point that when they reach the fire it may be entirely out of water to suppress the fire.

Why does this happen and how can it be fixed?

The basic problem is that he construction and design are not suitable for this type of Fire Apparatus off-road stress and flex of the materials selected and specified by the State of California.

Photos of the problem and the fix:

• Tank mounts being installed Off frame.
• Final with spring mount Bodies tilted upward, bottoms exposed (or in one case the back of the body)
• Wheelwells cut away for crack repair
• Repairing tank cracks
• Prep for crack welding

The crack on the current Model 34s can be fixed, but how do we eliminate this problem and COST in the future?

The continued exclusion of the major US Fire Apparatus manufacturers using the “Bidder Requirements” as set by the State are unacceptable to that group. None will do more than offer a “Courtesy Bid.” HME is NOT a major manufacturer. They acquired the name “Ahrens-Fox” by a purchase of the name rights. Ahrens-Fox was a long-tenured, well-respected name in the US Fire Apparatus industry. HME is an acronym for Hendrickson Mechanical Equipment which is a lone-tenured US manufacturer of steel products. Their first entry into fire apparatus was as a chassis and cab manufacturer in the 1970’s. Later as they acquired other smaller groups in this industry, they embarked into the field of full size fire apparatus.

Maybe you could briefly fill in the few major points?

First, the use of the Allison automatic transmissions in the late 1950’2 was not a “New idea” on the part of CDF. But rather the General Services purchasers had learned that by using that transmission accompanied by the optional “Retarder” would allow the use of smaller engines, smaller, brakes and smaller power plants which, in the long run, would reduce the state’s costs to maintain a fleet. In 1957 the state bought 100 Medium Duty truck chassis for service with various state agencies (primarily the Division of Highways) and then it went from there.

An example, CDF went from Ford F-800 “Super Duty” chassis with a 340 Cubic Inch Y block, Ford V-8 engine to a F-600 Ford chassis powered by a Ford Y block, 292 Cubic Inch V-8 engine and smaller brake and also a 2,200 lb. less Gross Vehicle Weight rating. The same was true for the GMC, FWD, Dodge, International, Diamond T and Sterling chassis units.

In simple terms, the fire fleet went backwards into smaller brakes, lower weight ratings and smaller power plants. At the same time, the fleet service requirements increased considerably. But those financial numbers are now buried in budget numbers rather than purchase prices, as we see in some reports released to the taxpayers. In essence, we paid less to get less, to spend a lot more, but the figures were never available for viewing.

The entire state owned, Cal Fire operated fleet is 3,300+ vehicles. Right now the very qualified Mobile Equipment Maintenance staff number about 100 state-funded positions which includes the Managers. The actual on-the-ground Technicians who perform those repairs are fewer than 75. That equates to one Technician caring for 44 pieces of apparatus. The Fire Fleet management organizations of many of the larger fire service agencies is about one Technician to fifteen pieces of apparatus. This entire sector of the Cal Fire operation never sees a break, and after reviewing the Ordering Records for the previous major incidents, Cal Fire has participated in the Heavy Equipment Mechanic HEM-I) is the least filled. The mechanical work has to be jobbed out to shops with hourly rates frequently in excess of $135.00/hr. The Mobile Equipment Management “repairs” budget has never been adequate. It is exceeded every year. This isn’t a Cal Fire problem, this is a huge problem caused by a bureaucratic nightmare this state has mandated on all of its Departments.

Is any one else pissed of @ the direction surrounding seasonal hiring this year? All in the name of diversity!!!! I spent the day researching civil rights act / eeo laws. It is plain English! The FS is in clear violation by arbitrarily selecting candidates based on a first and last name. 2 have 4 years in before you can be "rehire eligible"?!

Sent from my iPhone

Airtac,

I agree with you. The Monterey Helishots were a fine, hardworking crew. Don Lopez and Gerry Barney would have nothing less. I used to fill in on a regular basis with the crew on trips to Arizona, New Mexico and such exotic places as the Angeles. “No water, work”!! as Don would say…….

GP

FS Prevention,

Find the nearest canvas shop, boat shop, awning manufacturer, car interior shop, etc. Should be a simple job to make up a cover for your unit. We used to go to our local awning shop to get covers for our hose reels and quick hoselay boxes. You get to pick the colors also. (The boat shop could put you on to who makes boat covers.)

Firehorse

Ab,

There is still room for a few more teams and some single players at the FWFSA Golf Scramble, April 20th in Anderson CA. This will be a great opportunity to support the FWFSA and enjoy some golf with the wildland fire community. See attached flyer for details and sign up information.

Thanks,
Nor Cal FWFSA

FWFSA Golf Scramble (320 K pdf)

I added the info to the Hotlist Calendar, scroll to the bottom to view it. Ab.

GP

The Marble and the Cone would have been crew action fires if the Monterey Helishots had been on the home district, rather than already assigned to the Santa Lucia RD. Hehe!

airtac

Hello everyone,

I have put together a 90+ gallon tank with a Honda pump and hose reel for my prevention rig. The supplier from whom I purchased it doesn't offer a protective cover for it. Does anyone out there have a source for purchasing one?

Thanks

FS Prevention

The Groundpig was there. In fact, the Groundpig was on the initial attack when there were two reported lightning fires, one on Marble Peak, and one on Cone Peak which eventually became the Marble Cone. We had successfully attacked several lightning fires that day with containment. By the time the Marble and Cone fires were detected and reported, they had spilled into local drainages. The Marble fire may have been attacked sooner, but the Big Sur engine blew the rear differential returning from a fire and was out of service. Next closest engine was PV and Arryo Seco. Oops. The rest my friend is.. history.

GP

We got a request from a firefighter for a hard copy of the Engine 11 investigation, one with photos.
They had checked Always Remember Stanza Engine 11.
The person is looking for photos that might be used in a training that's being put together, a drive school.

If anyone has something like that or knows where support materials could be found, I'll pass along your contact info.

Ab.

Ab,

I am trying to track down a video that I saw a few years ago. They had setup up a demonstration showing the results of not looking up while felling a tree. I think they may have used a light pole or something similar, and a weighted, padded stand in for a limb falling for the demonstration. It showed well the consequences of not looking up, as the guy looking up escaped every time, and the guy relying on his swamper got hit every time. I would like to use this video for training purposes.

Thanks in advance...

Simlim Here it is: http://www.wildlandfire.com/videos/fs_simlimb_25_megs.wmv ... Ab.

Hotlist

www.rgj.com/article/20120222/NEWS/302220100/1459

Lowell V. “Lody” Smith, who served as Nevada state forester under four governors, died Tuesday.
He was 75.

U.S. Rep. Mark Amodei issued this statement:

“Lody Smith was a long-time public servant and close friend of the Amodei family. He dedicated his life to stewardship of the West and the protection and management of land for the entire state of Nevada. A true conservationist, he will be dearly missed by his family, his friends and his state.”

Smith spent 35 years with the Nevada Division of Forestry. He... (More at link...)

NVJ

The crew leadership did an outstanding job. The crew were well trained, well organized, and typical of hotshot crew then and now.

Tactics and strategies seem to be different these days. But one can always count on a shot crew today as we did then.

TK

Save the Date April 7, 2012

Read the details...

www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2012/misc/winema-ihc-50-yr.pdf

Mike

I added the date to the hotlist calendar: www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/index.php and scroll down. Ab.

Ab, hope all is well with you, a late Happy New Year. Please review and post if you think it's appropriate.

Truck Raffle Flyer

Thanks, Tony

Good to hear from the SW. Be safe! Ab.

The discussion of the Marble Cone fire in 1977 brought back one particular memory for me... We (a So Cal Hotshot Crew) were spiked out on a helispot one night.. Paper bags, hot cans and resupply had been flown in for the spike. Three hotshot crews were at the helispot which was somewhere off of the Coast Ridge Road. After a hasty meal, saw sharpening and quick wallow fire building session, my saw partner and I, as well as the rest of the crew, bedded down for the night in our dirt wallows..

The next morning as we were crawling out of the paper fartsacks.. I told my partner, " I had the weirdest dream last night!.. Dreamt the other crew (I will leave them nameless but their southern cal name roughly translates to "big bamboo" and they have a busted duck on their logo) was up dancing around in their skivvies and paper bags whooping and hollering with a huge fire going! Like natives around a campfire at a ritual!" My saw partner laughs and says, You weren't dreaming, bro! He pointed to the other end of the helispot and there were melted saws and burned line gear... seems the other crews wallow fire had spotted into one of their saw or fusee packs and proceeded to burn and melt a few chainsaws and some line gear.. LOL....

Lots of memories of the Marble Cone, but that one of those kids dancing around at 2 am on the helispot trying to put out chainsaw, fusee and gas pack fires is the best! Luckily no one got burned!

Keep the good memories ....

yactak

MJ

That picture was taken at the Cedar Fire in San Diego in '03, the black bands on the badges were for Firefighter Steve Rucker from the Novato Fire Protection District. Somewhere in my stuff, that has been moved several times in recent years, I have a pic from nearly the same angle, but it may include the Cleveland's engine that was parked there as well. I'm still unpacking from my most recent move, but would be happy to send a copy to you if and when I find it. Otherwise I thought if folks knew the fire it was taken on it might help them find you a copy sooner than I would be able to.

Good Luck
Snowflea

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2003/11/images/20031104-4_fire4-515h.html

OA

To whoever posted the story about the bears in '87 thanks for the laugh! I needed it after a too many meetings.

Almost an old timer

The story about how to deal with bears: Hotlist

All,

I am still looking for a particular pic of GW Bush and a calfire engine for a recruitment class. Folks have sent me some, but not the pic I need. I have attached a fuzzy version of the pic I am looking for, blown up from a tiny one. If anyone has it in a clearer format, I really need it.

www.wildlandfire.com/pics/other/arnie-bush-firefighters.jpg

Thanks,

-MJ

Lower Slobovia according to wikipedia... Ab.

WTF

WHEN: April 28th, 2012 at 1300
WHERE: Monument Fire Center
3751 Mt. Herman Rd., Monument, CO.
FEE: $25 per adult
$5 for BBQ for kids 10yrs. +
Kids under 10 free
Fee includes:
Catered BBQ and basic drinks
Plus Commemorative coin and video for alumni!
ALSO: We’ll have horseshoes, sandpit playground for kids / volleyball too, a small ceremony led by former Supt.s, woodland celebrities available for photos, a group photo session, and more. BYOB
We will look into setting aside a block of rooms at the local hotel. Please indicate on the following page if you are interested.
* Please send any old pics to Alissa ASAP for inclusion in the video.
Send to aroeder@ nospam fs.fed.us

Flyer (297 K pdf)

I added it to the Hotlist calendar scroll to bottom.
Not much time left to sign up. Deadline to register is February 27; event is April 28. Get 'er done. Ab.

I'm sometimes a PIO and it's my job to take photos on an incident in addition to other things. I take photos for my employer with their camera. My employer owns the copyright, not me now or later.

Someone should look closely into copyright law though. Seems to me an employer could ban photography on the job while in pay status. But, I don't know if they can claim even part of the copyright if you're on a non-paid lunch break (not on the clock) and take a picture with your own camera or cell phone or helmet cam.

Julie

November 6, 2012

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10.432 How can an individual present evidence to OWCP in response to a preliminary notice of an overpayment? The individual may present this evidence to OWCP in writing or at a pre-recoupment hearing. The evidence must be presented or the hearing requested within 30 days of the date of the written notice of overpayment. Failure to request the hearing within this 30-day time period shall constitute a waiver of that right.

10.433 Under what circumstances can OWCP waive recovery of an overpayment?

(a) OWCP may consider waiving an overpayment only if the individual to whom it was made was not at fault in accepting or creating the overpayment. Each recipient of compensation benefits is responsible for taking all reasonable measures to ensure that payments he or she receives from OWCP are proper. The recipient must show good faith and exercise a high degree of care in regard to receipt of their benefits. Such care includes reporting events which may affect entitlement to or the amount of benefits, including reviewing their accounts and related statements (including electronic statements and records from their financial institutions involving EFT payments). A recipient who has done any of the following will be found to be at fault with respect to creating an overpayment:

1. Made an incorrect statement as to a material fact which he or she knew or should have known to be incorrect; or
2. Failed to provide information which he or she knew or should have known to be material; or
3. Accepted a payment which the recipient knew or should have known to be incorrect. (This provision applies only to the overpaid individual.)
        (b) Whether or not OWCP determines that an individual was at fault with respect to the creation of an overpayment depends on the circumstances surrounding the overpayment. The degree of care expected may vary with the complexity of those circumstances and the individual's capacity to realize that he or she is being overpaid.

10.434 If OWCP finds that the recipient of an overpayment was not at fault, what criteria are used to decide whether to waive recovery of it? If OWCP finds that the recipient of an overpayment was not at fault, repayment will still be required unless:

(a) Adjustment or recovery of the overpayment would defeat the purpose of the FECA (see §10.436), or
(b) Adjustment or recovery of the overpayment would be against equity and good conscience (see §10.437).

10.435 Is an individual responsible for an overpayment that resulted from an error made by OWCP or another Government agency?

(a) The fact that OWCP may have erred in making the overpayment, or that the overpayment may have resulted from an error by another Government agency, does not by itself relieve the individual who received the overpayment from liability for repayment if the individual also was at fault in accepting the overpayment.
(b) However, OWCP may find that the individual was not at fault if failure to report an event affecting compensation benefits, or acceptance of an incorrect payment, occurred because:
    (1) The individual relied on misinformation given in writing by OWCP (or by another Government agency which he or she had reason to believe was connected with the administration of benefits) as to the interpretation of a pertinent provision of the FECA or its regulations; or

10.436 Under what circumstances would recovery of an overpayment defeat the purpose of the FECA? Recovery of an overpayment will defeat the purpose of the FECA if such recovery would cause hardship to a currently or formerly entitled beneficiary because:

(a) The beneficiary from whom OWCP seeks recovery needs substantially all of his or her current income (including compensation benefits) to meet current ordinary and necessary living expenses; and
(b) The beneficiary's assets do not exceed a specified amount as determined by OWCP from data furnished by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. A higher amount is specified for a beneficiary with one or more dependents.

I hope this helps. WC Advocate

In looking @ the 2/15 post regarding the backfire/burnout on the Marble Cone, two things come to mind; first there were 3 and sometimes 4 zones on the Marble Cone fire and numerous burnouts that were close to or exceeded the 6,000 acre project mentioned that were conducted in the course of 30 days in 1977, some successful and some not. I had the honor of being a Helicopter Boss guiding helicopters to support these burnouts and keep within the containment line.

In 1985 on the Wheeler fire, I was the heli-torch burn boss with 3 torches, in one day we burned from the north end of Casitas Lake, around the west side of Matilija Canyon, north along the fuel breaks (Portrero Seco) to Highway 33, south to Rose Valley along the Highway and burned out over 42,000 acres in one operational period which completed the containment on the south, west and eastern flanks of the fire. The burning was the fun portion, all the hard work of the ground resources constructing the containment lines and years of work on the fuel break were the major efforts, so give 95% credit to those folks for the success of the operations. Thanks…

Joe Stutler
County Forester
Bend, OR

Thanks for chiming in, old friend and mentor. Those gals in your family still keeping you in line??? HAW HAW! Ab.

Thank you, Capt. Joe...that is precisely the type of info I was seeking.
With your permission, I will incorporate your narrative into my story of the Marble Cone Fire.
I do have a few follow-up questions; could you contact me direct : jbsupport108@msn.com ?
I have the same impression of Doyle and Dick. I worked with Doyle in HUU and was his understudy/successor as S-290 Region I coordinator.
retired BC

PS - does the size record still stand? I have heard that the backfire on the Mendanhall Fire was larger.

Making the rounds...

Hello Chiefs.

First I would like to thank Shawna and the BDF folks that discovered this change in law.

I just got off the phone with the DMV. We are no longer required to have the Firefighter endorsement for our class A or B operators. We simply revert to what we were doing before the law changed at the end of 2010. For our engine operators they are required to have a Class B with the proper endorsement, that is it. I wanted to get this word out to you in case you have employees going to DMV seeking the FF endorsement. We can discuss this on the Tuesday morning call if you have any questions.

Have a great three day weekend!

Peter <snip>

Assembly Bill No. 82

DMV Letter to Chiefs

Weenie Hose---3/4" hose. Misfire7

Dropping the kids off at the pool---time to go poo. Misfire7

Black Booger Contest----After big fire day, see who has the biggest and nastiest booger. Misfire7

BLM----Bad Land Managers. Misfire7

Thought you might want to add a few more to your list

Misfire

Thanks, added them to the funny Wildland Fire Terms and names we call each other. Ab.

The Senate barbershop in DC used by some in Congress had a $300,000 operating deficit last year which prompted the Senate to give it some extra cash to sustain its operations. One former senator blames the shop's federal employees for its financial problems. (more at link)

Wow, even the Hair Stylists make more than Federal Firefighters. Well now I know where Congress's priorities are.

jk

Hi folks,

Just wanted to fire this out to the community. In the summer of 1962, the Big Hill Helitack Module was established on the Eldorado National Forest. In honor of this occasion we will be celebrating 50 years of protecting lives, property and our public lands by hosting a fundraiser, which will include a 52-mile hike that will take us through the very cities and lands we have protected in our first 50 years. The hike will start in Pollock Pines, CA on May 19th and end in El Dorado Hills, CA on May 20th. As a part of our celebration, we will be collecting funds via Fill-the-Boot drive, as well as donations to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation as the Crew hikes through the various communities. Donation sites will be set up in conjunction with a static display to raise public awareness of the Wildland Firefighter Foundation as well as the history of Big Hill Helitack throughout the years.

A banquet fundraiser for the evening of May 20th at Diamond Springs-El Dorado Firefighters Hall is scheduled for an all-you-can-eat spaghetti dinner. All the proceeds go to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation.

A Big Hill Crew Alumni Reunion will be held at Big Hill Lookout Station on May 20th from 1000 – 1300. Snacks and Coffee will be available.

If there are folks out there who can provide any pictures or stories while you were a part of the Big Hill Helitack Module, it would be helpful and very much appreciated. At this time we are still developing a facebook page for the Big Hill Helitack 50th Anniversary Fundraiser for the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. More information will be forthcoming. If you have any questions please feel free to contact Rob Allan at : bigallan516@aol.com

Thanks for your time and have a safe Fire season.

Tony's reply on the formal arrangements -- costs, coverage, ability to have payments taken out of your paycheck, lack of clawback, etc -- were helpful, but best was his comment about most important difference being FEDS commitment and know how.

Part of this Webinar that I found interesting was the legal history of Thirty Mile and Cramer and Esperanza and where we are today.

Mellie

I need lessons on how to submit a question. Tony concluded the first part of the presentation and I was looking for the box that dropped down somewhere that said "Submit Questions HERE now".

I guess I'm still just a Knuckle Dragon.

Knuckles: We'll come up with a bit more on how to do that. I did a couple of screen captures to illustrate the menu.
HAW HAW HAW, when there were no questions right away Tony or his assistant said something like "WOW, we've never had that happen before, no questions..."
HAW HAW bet I wasn't the only one scrambling to figure it out, and I even clicked around before the Webinar started. I wanted to make sure I got my question in before they cut us all off. HAW HAW HAW.
Lots of information and fun, too, especially after the fact. One thing that clearly emerged is that Tony has passion for federal wildland firefighters who are trying to do their job -- their calling, their service -- that get caught up in and targeted by the legal system, the costs, the anxiety and basically through no fault of their own.

Oh look the message just came out with the FEDS presentation link to YouTube. Ab.

Questions from FF Webinar on 2-16-12; list sent to Ab by Cathy who moderated the questions:

• Would you cover the cramer and thritymile in more depth. How the investigations went
  
• So I thought it was interesting that you said we can make good, sound decisions and still be held liable or accountable. Would you expand your thoughts on why that is. Why is that reasonable?
  
• Are Temporary Seasonal Employees eligible for the 50% reimbursement
  
• For those people that you are talking about being defended on the different fires, how much on average did those people with PLI pay out of pocket vs. those without PLI?
  
  ---
• So, I am a Prevention Technician, GS9. I am an ICT4 and often the first on the scene and I deal with the public regularly, many public contacts. I am also a Public Information Officer 2 as well as a helicopter manager and I often work at Air Tanker Bases, I'm assuming I would be a strong candidate for PLI, even though I am not strictly on the fire line? Is a Fire Prevention Technician covered as one of the reimbursement positions?
  
• How does PLI differ from union coverage?
  
• I am a firefighter as well as an FPO (forest protection officer) meaning I write federal violation notices. Do I need the LE PLI as well?
  
• In regards to the guy starting his career. He will be an ICT5 soon (hopefully) thereby able to lead a squad and IC a small fire, and thereby liable.
  Thanks! I got a group of 11 together to listen to this, so these questions are coming from several people! Good job folks!

Tony's presentation and answers to the questions will be available on YouTube soon. As the one firefighter said, Good Job folks! and thanks to Tony and Brenda and Cathy. Ab.

1. up to half of your premium is reimbursable by the Agency and
2. especially for Forest Service firefighters, despite the best efforts of the FWFSA, NFFE and FEDS and the increased understanding in Congress of the "unintended consequences" associated with current law which places an undue burden on FS firefighters with respect to liability, the law, and thus the threat remains.

I can't tell you how many folks contact FEDS after they need their help. While I know Mr. Vergnetti will do his best to chat with folks who haven't yet joined and find themselves with a problem, the fact of the matter is you've got to "pay to play."

Providing such protection isn't free. Just like advocating before Congress on wildland firefighter issues isn't free. Recognizing the economic realities we are in, it is important to understand that participation with FEDS, of the FWFSA or NFFE is an investment in one's future, not a waste of money. Those of you planning to make a career in the federal system and move up the chain will assume greater and greater responsibility... and liability. Having someone in your corner who has the experience working with federal wildland firefighters is invaluable.

Just my 1 1/2 cents worth.

Casey

Ab;

Apparently there has been a precedent set for federal employee's to sue their supervisor if they violated their first amendment rights. I wonder if this would apply to the person fired for posting to They Said? If so, I wouldn't want to be that persons supervisor.

www.fedsprotection.com/news.asp?page=508

Hotshot88

With the help of a supervisor, I submitted a waiver to have the bill waived. The waiver was approved and I didn't have to pay back the bill. Thinking back... here is main points of my waiver.

• I didn't "intend" to get overpaid
• Due to the HR folks being experts at setting pay scales - I didn't question them about my pay. I assumed it was correct. ex - HR folks don't come and tell me how to build a trench
• it was an HR mistake, not my mistake
• Due to the large amount of bill, it would have caused a tremendous hardship on family, if we were to pay it back. ex - bill is larger than annual income, career seasonal employee, etc

I think there is a similarity, your daughter didn't set up the payment amount, she didn't intend to "rip off the government", it was a HR mistake, not your daughters mistake.

I would imagine there is an appeal process for OWCP and SS. Hopefully this helps, you can get my info from AB and I could get you a copy of my waiver letter.

Also, once I was assigned a "case worker", things where easier. The individual was sympathetic and wanted to help.

It will be a long battle, stay positive and know you can win.

MB7

Ab.

Don't forget the PLI Webinar for federal wildland firefighters at 0900 Pacific time and Noon Eastern.

Here's the flyer to open to click the registration button:
Announcement of FEDS Free Webinar for Wildland Firefighters (32 K doc) with link to registration.

or

Here's the website where you can access registration: FEDS website.

See you there!

Ab.

Ab,

Just wanted to pass along a word of thanks to those who provided some guidance as to where to begin my search concerning red card restrictions and individuals with prosthetic devices. I'm sure that with the injuries incurred by some of our finest men and women in the most recent wars, we will be seeing more Veteran candidates amongst our ranks with similar injuries.

Michael DiCristina, Colorado State Forest Service

It was sad to read the account of overpayment of benefits. I suggest the daughter's congressional representative be contacted and request consideration of a "private bill" relieving her of the payback. It is a long shot but could be well worth the effort.

John Shilling aka "dirfunguy"

The bottom line is for those who haven’t reached the 24-month milestone, whether or not they get rehired is up to the hiring official. As stated in Q&A developed by HRM, “The rehire policy for other than long term temporaries remains at the discretion of the Regions Stations and Area, with firm expectations for robust outreach, recruitment and maximizing opportunities to hire a diverse workforce.” See www.nffe-fsc.org/committees/legislative/temp_hire.php (click on “2/1/11 update”). As these Q&A documents state, there is no requirement from Washington or Albuquerque (Washington West) to compete these positions. This guidance is consistent with statutory requirements at 5 USC 2301(b)(1): "Recruitment should be from qualified individuals from appropriate sources in an endeavor to achieve a work force from all segments of society, and selection and advancement should be determined solely on the basis of relative ability, knowledge, and skills, after fair and open competition which assures that all receive equal opportunity."

Frustrated posts,

"I'm all about a diverse work force. I truly believe women in fire is paramount. I couldn't care less what color your skin is, or where your last name says you are from."

You cannot support a "diverse work force" while the power to hire based on political correctness exists. With holes in policy, you can fly a VLAT through whims of politician's that dictate who gets hired. Always color and gender are listed, because they are visible assets. A true "diverse" workforce would include different thinking, measured by a lengthy in-depth interview. I once interviewed a candidate with "White Power" and SS lightning bolts tattooed on him. He would have made a fine "diverse" employee. However, I didn't feel he would fit into barracks living. (I made sure he was unqualified for hire.)

I do give a tinkers damn as to how new entry level employees are hired as well as how those employees are treated throughout their careers, especially when they earn the right to promote. The best qualified individuals regardless of superficial attributes should be given the opportunity to serve the public that pays their salary, anything less is criminal.

HUUFC

Where would I take my refresher course and pack test here in california, so I can start applying for jobs?

Thank you for your time, look forward to your response.

JP

I don’t know if this is affecting the fire community or not but suspect it is.

My daughter collects benefits from OWCP and SSA due to the death of her mother at work. This past week I received a letter from OWCP that there should have been an offset of what she received from SSA to what she received from OWCP. In other words, she was receiving too much money each month. The letter went on to state that OWCP would be sending another letter stating how much had been overpaid and demanding to be repaid that amount. This goes back 15 years for my daughter and could easily be in the thousands. My wife called OWCP to question them on this and see if we understood it correctly. Amazingly we got through to the claims examiner. She told us we were correct in our understanding, she also said that it was totally the fault of OWCP and SSA for not following their own protocols or this would have been caught long before. The poor woman seemed to be miserable over being the bearer of this news. It isn’t just happening to us.

My questions are:

1. Is it happening to those collecting death benefits from those killed on fires?
2. Does anyone know of any attempts to stop this?

It seems to me (politically challenged retired firefighter that I am) that this mistake on the part of the Govt. shouldn’t be shoved back on those who collected these benefits trusting the Govt. to take care of them. I can only imagine the stress and consternation that some families are going to go through trying to repay monies that they used to try to continue on after the loss of a loved one who died while performing their jobs.

I have heard of at least one of our firefighters in this situation. Ab.

Don't forget to register for the FEDS PLI Webinar for federal Wildland Firefighters:
Tomorrow -Thursday at NOON Eastern Time or 9AM Pacific Time

Announcement of FEDS Free Webinar for Wildland Firefighters (32 K doc) with link to registration.

or access the registration from their website FEDS website.

Registration is easy and you remain anonymous. Registrants call in, listen to a 15 min presentation by Tony at FEDS that covers the basics. Then he answers questions you type in. You remain anonymous. You get the info you need. I posted some basics and discussion on this started yesterday here to skip down. Thanks to the LEO for sharing.

I have also gotten a question from a community member about how hard is the process of switching for firefighters or others that are already enrolled in PLI with Wright and Co. I asked Brenda. Turns out it's easy.

Wright policy holders renew 4/1! It's very easy to switch. Instead of renewing with Wright, they just call us or go on-line just like any new member would. We just need the original year they purchased coverage. If they are in the middle of a claim, they should speak with us before switching. We do offer payroll deduction, and with payroll deduction, you are automatically renewed each year. Wright doesn't have that option, so there are no additional steps for Wright members. We can explain this in the Q&A session 9AM tomorrow if you're on the west coast or noon if in the east.

Apparently FEDS has better coverage at lower cost and more experience with federal wildland firefighters than Wright. Read the info on the website. Ask questions at the Webinar.
FWFSA endorses FEDS.
Here's the link to the 30 min taped LEO webinar if you're interested in "studying up" or curious about the webinar process.
You can call FEDS any time with questions. 866-955-3337 (FEDS) Tony or someone will answer them.

Just do it! Study up. PLI, very good value for the money and for many federal managers, you will be reimbursed 50%.

Ab.

Would FEDS have been able to help beforehand or after that guy got dismissed?

Todd

Yes, but unfortunately he wasn't enrolled. Sign up for the FEDS Webinar. Ask your questions. Ab.

9301 (2/8 post),

First, let me wish you the best of luck. You sound like a great employee and someone the Forest Service is lucky to have working for them and considering a career with them. Here’s what NFFE has done and where it looks like R4 is at right now.

I need to start by debunking a myth: the Chief’s “Interim Direction for Rehire of Long-Term Temporary Seasonal Employees” has nothing to do with the exercise of management discretion as to whether or not to use rehire authority to bring back employees with less than 24 months of service time. Management has always had this discretionary authority and they continue to have it for this group of employees. In fact, without the interim direction, all temporary employees, even those with decades of service, could have found their jobs at risk. This did actually happen on some units last season. And the year before we almost lost hundreds of employees for reasons unrelated to the current diversity push.

The bottom line is for those who haven’t reached the 24-month milestone, whether or not they get rehired is up to the hiring official. As stated in Q&A developed by HRM, “The rehire policy for other than long term temporaries remains at the discretion of the Regions Stations and Area, with firm expectations for robust outreach, recruitment and maximizing opportunities to hire a diverse workforce.” See www.nffe-fsc.org/committees/legislative/temp_hire.php (click on “2/1/11 update”). As these Q&A documents state, there is no requirement from Washington or Albuquerque (Washington West) to compete these positions. This guidance is consistent with statutory requirements at 5 USC 2301(b)(1):

"Recruitment should be from qualified individuals from appropriate sources in an endeavor to achieve a work force from all segments of society, and selection and advancement should be determined solely on the basis of relative ability, knowledge, and skills, after fair and open competition which assures that all receive equal opportunity."

I have spoken with Region 4 union officials and as I understand it, Region 4 does plan to rehire some, but not all, temporary employees with less than 24 months of service. Front line supervisors will make recommendations through their chain of command. The ultimate decision will be up to the Regional Forester or Deputy Regional Forester. Former 1039s should apply because these rehire decisions may not occur until after vacancy announcements close. NFFE has expressed concerns that many affected employees may not receive notice; they will have to compete for their jobs this year before applications are due. We have been assured that those with rehire eligibility will be considered even if they miss the deadline because of late notice. These plans may still be in flux. Region 4 union officials will continue to monitor the situation and engage their management counterparts on behalf of returning employees.

There’s a lot more I could say about the whole situation – but I don’t have time to write a book that nobody would read anyway. Here’s the bottom line for me: as a representative of employees, I don’t give a tinker’s damn how entry level vacant positions are filled. But once you’re hired, you are Forest Service: my brothers and sisters. And that includes temporary employees who are temporary in name only – who come back year after year. Over the years, too many temporary employees have been discarded like broken tools – because it’s easy to do when the pressure is on. This happens because this work and these employees are mischaracterized as temporary. A “temporary” employee may have done the same work for years or even decades, but on paper new “vacant” positions are filled anew each year. It is the regulatory fiction that these jobs are temporary that puts employees in this position. Until we succeed in fundamental reform on this core issue, temporary jobs will always be at risk, for one reason or another.

The only way to avoid problems like this and the next one that comes along is for employees who perform regular and recurring seasonal work to have career status, with all the benefits (including job security) that this entails. NFFE will continue to work toward this goal. However, this will require legislation, and with the current anti-federal employee attitude in Congress passage of pro-federal employee legislation will be difficult to achieve, to put it mildly. (Would it be too political for this blog for me to say: if you are a temporary employee and helped vote these bums in, by your action or your inaction, then you helped cut your own throat? Before the mid-term election, NFFE had solid commitments from representatives who are no longer in power to move on this legislation. There, I said it. So sue me.) Meanwhile, we have also been working for benefits for temporary employees that can be achieved administratively, without Congress. We are advocating with OPM about getting health insurance and pension benefits for temporary employees. In addition, we worked to provide long-term temporary seasonal employees (those with 24 or more months of service) with a measure of job security. This is not a perfect solution, and I know it hurts to be on the wrong side of this line in the sand, but for such a small victory in the larger struggle let me tell you it was hard won.

If anybody out there wants to join up and help us in this and many other worthwhile struggles, you can find out how at www.nffe-fsc.org/join.php. I can put you to work.

Mark Davis, President
NFFE Forest Service Council

Thanks much Mark for your persistent advocacy for wildland firefighters. Readers, if you have an interest, please step up and help the union with its work. Ab.

Reply to Ret'd BC
Was the 1977 Marble Cone Fire: Largest Backfire?

I was assigned to helicopter operations at Rana Creek Helibase, attached to a squadron of National Guard Huey's supporting the dozer line construction from Chews Ridge to the Big Sur Coast. Ground crews had been trying to fire out Hennickson's Ridge for about a week, but spent most of their time chasing slopovers. Squirrelly and adverse winds are part of the Los Padres National Forest fire environment.

Doyle Metheny, Firing Boss, and Dick Gillett, Division Supervisor, worked with the IC team for days, finally convinced them to approve lighting a counter-fire from a Type 3 helicopter with a 25mm flare pistol.

Our Huey, Marbleguard 49, had just delivered diesel fuel to the dozers on the line, when we decided that a "recon of conditions" was necessary, so we flew the northern and eastern perimeter back to Chew's Ridge. Cruising overhead, we saw that the Type 3 helicopter with the flare pistol was not producing sufficient heat and was not successfully igniting the heavy brush.

As we circled an LZ at the Cahoon Ranch along Carmel Valley Road, Metheney waved us to land. We put in, and I looked out to see Doyle followed by a line of firefighters hauling cases of Burnol burst canisters (napalm grenades). Doyle asked if the Vietnam vet flyboys were comfortable with this cargo. Over the intercom they determined that it was classified as "ordnance", which is an approved load. We knew that live napalm grenades with explosive detonators attached was a stretch of the regulatory rubber band, but we were determined.

Doyle jumped in back of the Huey, and I sat next to him, carefully unscrewing the Burnol canister lids, and arming them with a time fuse and blasting cap. There was a forty acre wedge of chamise at the top that Doyle wanted to fire out first, the start of a progressive counter-fire. We armed and tossed about ten grenades onto the target brush patch before landing, and then riding his jeep on the dozer firing line to the top of Chews Ridge. Here was a strike team of four wheel drive engines and it seemed like a hundred firefighters with every firing device known to man firing the line with salvos of Burnol canisters, multiple drip torches and fusees, and 25mm flare pistols. The complex ignition of the canisters dropped from the Huey created a convergence and plume domination that put the ground firing crews into high gear firing in effect. We witnessed a 180 degree turn around of an adverse wind of 13 mph, to 12 mph favorable wind as a result of the counter-fire influence. That's 25 mph.

Doyle then signaled Pilot Chip Washington and myself to get back to the helicopter and continue the counter-firing, giving the ground ignition crews favorable winds for rapid burn out and safety.

We ended up firing the entire east line from Chews Ridge Lookout to Arroyo Seco using a coordinated ground-aerial ignition, firing about 6,000 acres in about six hours that day.

We didn't yet have the helitorch, which came on the scene in 1979. Dick Gillett told me at the time that it was the biggest backfire ever set in California, and that the convection plume reached 32,000 feet on the second day.

Dick Gillett and Doyle Metheny are two of the best wildland firefighters I ever knew, having worked with both on some rather gnarly fires.

They had natural leadership ability, and the intestinal fortitude to fight the good fight with those that are not comfortable with calculated risk.

Captain Joe

Thanks for the bit of history, Captain Joe. I can feel it, see it and smell it. Ab.

"keenly aware of their surroundings and intensely focused on the tasks they are performing. Activities that distract from firefighters’ situational awareness and precision in their work threaten the safety not only of those directly involved but also of all others around them."

They make it sound like we're tourist at Disneyland snapping photos all day. Not going to lose SA by taking a photo or two. Paragraph two, very weak argument.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
File Code: 5100/1600/6170
Date: May 2, 2011
Subject: Firefighter Photography, Videography, and Use of Social Media
To: Regional Foresters, Station Directors, Area Director, IITF Director, Deputy Chiefs and WO Directors

Recently, we have heard from many in the field that firefighters’ use of personal cell phones and cameras to shoot photographs and videotape on the job has become a significant distraction, and thereby jeopardizes firefighter safety. We also are aware of field concerns that some information, photographs, and videotape that firefighters posted on personal social media accounts and websites reflect poorly on individuals, crews, the Agency, and the interagency wildland firefighting community.

Firefighters’ lives often depend on their ability to be keenly aware of their surroundings and intensely focused on the tasks they are performing. Activities that distract from firefighters’ situational awareness and precision in their work threaten the safety not only of those directly involved but also of all others around them. No structure or natural resource is worth the life of a firefighter, neither is a souvenir photograph or video. Fire supervisors have the responsibility and discretion for safe practices for their employees. Discussion about this topic during fire refresher or tailgate sessions may be beneficial. The firefighting community and its partners have a close bond; we are asking each person to use this close-knit relationship to be mindful of risks and safety for all involved.

Nothing is more important than properly applying doctrine while managing risk. Our goal is to become the preeminent wildland fire risk managers. We achieve that by making conscious and deliberate decisions about what risks are reasonable and necessary and what risks may jeopardize the safety or tarnish the professionalism we strive to meet. We cannot achieve that vision by shooting photos and videos without weighing the potential consequences of our actions.

Forest Service (FS) policy allows firefighters or other employees to post information, photos, or videos about work-related activities on personal social media accounts or websites outside of work hours or otherwise not on government time. However, firefighters should be mindful that posting work-related information or activities on their personal social media accounts or websites reflects on the professionalism of their crew, the FS, and the wildland firefighting community.

In addition to posing threats to safety, firefighters who shoot photographs and video with their personal cell phones and cameras while on the job may be violating the USDA Photography Policy (Departmental Regulation 3300-001), which states that “No photographic work will be undertaken that is not essential for official use or necessary in furthering the official business of the USDA.” All employees must be aware of the USDA Regulation on Employee Responsibilities and Conduct (Departmental Regulation 4070-735-001), and that violations of the regulation may result in disciplinary action.

In addition, photographs, videos, and other information taken by firefighters could cause complications in the event that the FS becomes involved in any litigation regarding a particular fire. Any information could be considered evidence in the lawsuits, and other litigants may have a right to seek that information from a personal computer or camera.

The FS is the largest U.S. wildland firefighting force. Our international, federal, state, and local partners expect FS firefighters to be leaders. With the ability to transmit information and images across the globe instantaneously, it has never been more important for firefighters to conduct themselves professionally. It is the responsibility of every firefighter to maintain the FS’s reputation as the most professional wildland firefighters in the world. For these reasons, we discourage firefighters from taking photographs and videos during operations and from posting information on personal social media accounts.

/s/ T.C. Harbour
TOM HARBOUR
Director, Fire and Aviation Management

cc: pdl wo spf fam regional fire directors, pdl wo spf fam leadership, pdl wo lot

A similar situation applies for development of equipment by a government employee on official time (Pulaski, McLeod etc. In this case, one can get government assistance to patent and promote the item, but the government gets free use of the patent as does the employee.

Just some Fed

Not sure if the Fire Service is ready for social media. Didn't someone just recently get terminated for posting on They Said while serving the Fire Service? It certainly is another tool for gaining access to information. But what happens when it is politically incorrect?

Years ago back on the Havilah fire of 1988 on the Sequoia near Breckenridge I accidentally videotaped a lead plane crash with, at the time, a new Soni digital camera at the time being state of the art. Working as a radio operator and while taking a break took the camera out to take some footage of an air tanker drop along with the lead plane. When looking through the view finder I saw what I thought was a bird flying down. Didn't think much of it until went back to the ABRO job and heard the radio traffic about the plane crash. Realized that I accidentally videotaped the crash. The tape was loaned to the FAA investigation team and eventually went to a NASA Ames lab that determined the plane went into a high speed stall and the pilot would of needed 400 or more feet to pull out but crashed to earth, leading to the death of the pilot. I asked for the property which was the video tape back and a forest service lawyer gave me a hard time saying the images on the tape were the Forest Service since it was taken in pay status on a break. They were concerned about what I was going to do with the tape. I told them I wanted to view the crash on a big screen tv instead of the tiny view finder of the camera. They had concerns about the family of the deceased pilot. The tape was returned several months later and I watched it once and put it away. Still have the original tape in a box somewhere. Wanted the tape back on principle as the FAA investigation got lucky. With digital enhancement it was strange to see it flip end over end. Some interesting other stories for another time but the point being what if I would of chosen to sell it to CNN news hound for a buck. Profit for gain with regard to a family... wheres the ethics in that? Lucky I made an ethical choice for the sake of the accident investigation but can see why this board has their policy about reporting certain accidents due to liability and legal issues.

I know sometimes you can get more accurate information from this board about what is going on at an incident than anywhere else. That is why on some fires if I am in a position to post it I do. It can help other responders. Let us hope the Fire Services don't make it a blanket policy that you can't post while in pay status. Post something and get fired? You can bet at some point some bureaucrat will make a decision some won't like cause that is what they do. The good thing is the flavor of post would just become anonymous and you won't stop it.

Two sides to all stories or events and this board as an example of social media provides a great service to the fire service, firefighters, and their families in spite of some moderators restricting the style of posting or a boss not letting an employee have their freedom of speech. The beauty of this country is we can agree to disagree. Fire Service gets social media whether you like it or no. Let it bee......

firebeeman

Thanks for your perspective and information, firebeeman. The pilot who died was Chuck Watkins who worked for South Ops. He was very well-liked by many who still work in fire. There's a memorial to him on the Sequoia NF, created some years ago by Scot Vail and others and recently cleaned up and cared for by the Jim and Cheryl Bauer and Breckenridge Hotshots. Thanks to them. They honor us all by honoring Chuck.

The person who got fired did not even post on theysaid, just sent Ab a heads-up email, also wanting confirmation or dis-confirmation. It's in a legal process. At some point we might make this all public. It was not a FS firing, but another federal agency. Unfortunately, the action of one supervisor and his boss taints their agency, in my professional opinion. The world has changed. Ab.

I don't know what YOUR Forest is doing, but each R5 forest is supposed to post these for each Forest. Here is the SRF Outreach, been out for weeks...

_MJ

Michael,

There is not clear direction for non-federal firefighters, but the federal wildland firefighter medical standards state that "AMPUTATIONS OF AN EXTREMITY OR DIGITS will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis" among possible reasons for disqualification:

The applicant/incumbent must have a musculoskeletal system that is sufficient for the individual to safely and efficiently carry out the functional requirements of the job. This may be demonstrated by:

• A physical exam of the upper and lower extremities, neck, and back that is within the range of normal variation for strength, flexibility, range of motion, and joint stability; and
• No evidence by physical examination and medical history of musculoskeletal conditions likely to present a safety risk or to worsen as a result of carrying out the essential functions of the job (see page 2).

Note: For individuals who require the use of a prosthetic device, the examinee will have to provide for agency review documentation from his/her surgeon or physician that the individual (and, if applicable, his/her prosthetic device) is considered to be fully cleared for the essential functions of the job.
www.nifc.gov/medical_standards/documents/JobAids/Federal_Interagency_Wildland_Firefighter_Medical_Standards_Job_Aid.doc

I hope this helps.

vfd cap'n

I'll take a risk on broken camera...

Does anyone have the official written BLM, NPS, FS Direction about taking photos on cameras or phones on the fireline? How about on our OWN CAMERA or CELL PHONE, on our OWN TIME?

We're paid for breaks, theyre not our own time. We are not paid for lunch breaks, which we are required to take. We are not portal-to-portal. If I take a picture on my lunch break, what then? What about taking a photo on MY lunch break that does not coincide with the half-hour lunch break we have to record even if I dont take it?

Most digital cameras and some phones record whats called EXIF data on date and time and camera type and exposure and so on. This information gets sent along with all original photos you send home or post. I use a program to strip the Exif author info before sending or posting any of MY photos taken on MY own dime and time

www.metabilitysoftware.com/products/filemind-quickfix.html

its free & easy to use. You open quickfix and open another window that has your photo files. You highlight & drag the photos to the quickfix window and drop them. Quickfix saves one copy without the personal info & saves the original in your photo files. I send or post the one without hidden info. it has only length-width dimensions and file size.

Keeping my family up on where I am and that I'm safe is a priority for me. I lost one wife. I don't plan to lose this one. A photo says a thousand words that I am ok and they matter to me.

SnapShot

What one needs to do to take a Pac Test is fill out the medical questionnaire that will determine if they will need a doctor's release to participate. The three levels, Arduous, Moderate, and Light Walk will determine what level of work they will be able to perform. Pac Test can be part of the S-130 / S-190 basic 32 class now days I believe.

NWCG.com might be a good place to start, 5109-17 or 410-1. Your state laws might be different then federal law.

Personally if its in their heart to be a firefighter than there is most likely a place for them. They just need to find what place they fit into to make the TEAM.

Most of all work with them.

Retired

Ab,

I am teaching a S-130, S-190 class and had an individual approach me last night with the question, " Are there any restrictions to obtaining a red card if one wears a prosthetic device?" In this case it was due to a leg amputation below the knee. I told this person I was not sure but I would find out.

Can anyone provide some information on this?

thanks ....

Michael Di Cristina, Colorado State Forest Service

Photos on Government Time are government property no matter what camera it's taken on. If you are using a personal camera during government time you're doing it at your own risk, they won't fix it if it breaks!

Pathfinder

Ab,

I participated in the FEDS webinar for LEOs and learned a lot. Different emphasis for us than wildland firefighters, but since both jobs involve risky situations, there are ovelaps. Tony is very clear. You can hear how the questions/answers work 15 or 16 mins into it. No names.

It's online here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAe0Wc2uC0I

I signed up. FEDS is much better than the other company. I paid and will get reimbursed by the FS.

Lion on fire

I called Brenda at FEDS to find out the process of registration, how the Webinar for Federal Wildland Firefighters is conducted and asked about participant anonymity.

Here's what I found out:

• Federal employees register by clicking the Register Now! link in the FEDS doc below, but your name, email contact, forest (national park, BLM District), etc remain confidential.
  
• Presentation: Tony Vergnetti, lawyer and founder of FEDS (an excellent wildland firefighter advocate and friend to our wlf community) will present for about 15 minutes on PLI exposure, what a PLI policy provides wildland firefighters, how it protects you against professional exposure and which employees are eligible for some level of agency reimbursement.
  
• Q&A with anonymity: While Tony is doing his presentation or immediately following it, federal firefighters can type in questions. These will be received by a moderator who then transmits only the question to Tony who answers it. If 3 or 4 people have the same question, Tony will be told that 3 or 4 people have asked the question. If there's a second question Tony will be told that the same person has asked a second question. No names or duty stations.
  
• If you would like to share your name and where you work, you must preface your question with "this is so-and-so" on "such-and-such a national forest, national park or BLM district or office". That identity information is not necessary nor even suggested, however.

Any of you who participated in our wlf.com structured chats years ago know the benefit of the basic info and the Q&As. The process is revealing and educational. Get the info, have your questions answered, and have peace of mind if you are confronted by legal circumstances beyond your control and expertise. Go to the Webinar, ask any questions, decide if this FEDS PLI is worth it for you.

If I were in your shoes or boots, I certainly would have it.

Ab.

Message from Ab:

Firefighters, if you do not Professional Liability Insurance, please consider getting it. Recently it's become very clear to me that lawyers hired after the fact are EXPENSIVE and the legal process of appealing an unfair firing is cumbersome and that this can happen unexpectedly. Financially, firefighters accused of anything by a disgruntled, micromanaging, control-freak supervisor do not have the financial resources to fight back. In essence you're guilty until you can prove yourself innocent and are often ruined financially by the process alone.

FEDS Professional Liability Insurance gives you that capability to consult legal experts and to have experts defend you without additional cost, not only in fire mishaps, but also if some supervisor fires you unfairly.

You may think this doesn't happen very often. You might be surprised.

Please, if you have time or can make time this Thursday at NOON Eastern Time or 9AM Pacific Time, please attend the FEDS Professional Liability Insurance Webinar for federal wildland firefighters. It's 15 minutes plus Q& A. Here's the info:

Announcement of FEDS Free Webinar for Wildland Firefighters (32 K doc)

Registration is required. so HOP ON IT AND REGISTER. I'm going to sit in on the 15 minutes to see what info is shared and what questions are asked and answered. It will be like one of our old-timey wlf.com chat sessions focusing on a topic with an expert available to answer questions. Only the technology has changed. I expect it to be very informative.

Cheers,

Ab.

Hello Rick,

As I noted your title and read the attached weblink to the article, I have to wonder if this is a continued case of undocumented rhabdo in a country where the medical testing is less stringent then the US for medical conditions. The article seems to paint down that path as dehydration and hyperthermia are certainly contributing factors in the the medical patient that may have rhabdo as demonstrated by this folks.

I have attached both the wikiepedia definition of rhabdo as well as an article from Sports Illustrated. As fire season slowly comes upon us for the 2012 season, I would hope that wildland fire personnel get educated on this as it can be life threatening.

I hope this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabdomyolysis

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/david_epstein/08/24/haynesworth.rhabdo/index.html

Bill Arsenault
Wildland Firefighter/Paramedic

Ab,

In response to Dusty Rhodes's question about pictures being property of the BLM:

The way I've had it explained to me is that anybody working for the BLM (or FS, or FWS, etc.) is a federal government employee and as a federal government employee we are paid by American taxpayers. Thus, anything we produce as government employees (such as photos taken on government time) that isn't classified information can be requested by John Q. Taxpayer since they are technically our employers. So I don't think photos would actually be property of the BLM but they can be requested, seen, and used by an America without asking permission. If I"m wrong on any of this, somebody please correct me.

Brett

Hey everyone,

Was just at a recent all employees meeting for the BLM and was told that any picture taken during work hours was by default, the property of the BLM. It didn't matter if it was your camera, digital or cell phone, or what the picture was of. Could be sage brush, sunset, mountains etc.... I've never heard of this before and was wondering what other forum members thought. Is this legal?? What's driving this?? I understand if it is a government camera taking "official pictures" or if it is something sensitive, but if it isn't? Doesn't everyone out there have at least one fire picture?? I'm not looking to post anything, just would appreciate others thoughts and opinions on this.

Thanks,

Dusty Rhodes

Anyone out there know if it is too late to submit apps to CALFIRE in order to get on the Captains' list for the year? Did the list get pulled last month?

Thanks!

Joatmon

Interesting.

Wonder if there is any correlation with firefighters that have had problems here.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46352358/ns/world_news-americas/

Rick

www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper?dt=2012-02-12&bk=A&pg=6

BB & JB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricci_v._DeStefano

This happened not long ago and is also an interesting read.

M

Ricci v. DeStefano, 129 S. Ct. 2658, 2671, 174 L. Ed. 2d 490 (2009) is a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States arising from a lawsuit brought against the city of New Haven, Connecticut by twenty city firefighters alleging that the city discriminated against them with regard to promotions.[1] The firefighters, nineteen of whom are white and one of whom is Hispanic, had all passed the test for promotions to management. City of New Haven officials invalidated the test results because none of the black firefighters who passed the exam had scored high enough to be considered for the positions. They stated that they feared a lawsuit over the test's adverse impact on a protected minority. The complainants claimed they were denied the promotions because of their race—a form of racial discrimination.[2][3]

The Supreme Court heard the case on April 22, 2009, and issued its decision on June 29, 2009. The Court held 5-4 that New Haven's decision to ignore the test results violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. More at wikipedia link...

Ab added the text below M's post.

To "frustrated" and "diversity", spot on. Its also been proven in a court of law that you "CANNOT DISCRIMINATE TO SOLVE DISCRIMINATION".

R-5 really needs to "focus" on the following article.

TRI-SAK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

STATE SUPREME COURT
White firefighters are awarded $2.7 million in bias case
12 get average of $230,430 as city voided promotions

Updated: February 9, 2012, 12:29 PM

Twelve white Buffalo firefighters will get an average of $230,430 each in back pay, pension benefits and damages -- a total of almost $2.77 million -- for emotional distress because the City of Buffalo illegally passed them over for promotions, a state judge has ruled.

The 12 men sued the city in 2007, contending that the city illegally allowed two promotional lists to expire because minority firefighters had fared poorly on civil service exams.

The case was affected by a 2009 U.S. Supreme Court decision that said city officials cannot void the results of civil service exams simply because they are afraid of being sued.

The ruling on damages came 15 months after State Supreme Court Justice John A. Michalek ruled that the city illegally failed to promote based on its 2005 and 2006 tests for racial reasons.

A trial on damages was held late last year, and Michalek ruled Tuesday on the compensation for the 12 firefighters who lost promotions.

"This never should have happened. These are solid, hardworking firefighters. The city should have given them the promotions they earned and not put them through five years of litigation," said attorney Andrew P. Fleming, who represented the firefighters with co-counsel Christen Archer Pierrot.

The administrations of Mayor Byron W. Brown and his predecessor, Anthony M. Masiello, are both to blame for what happened, Fleming said.

"The original decision not to promote these men was made at the tail end of the Masiello administration, and it carried on into the Brown administration," Fleming said. "Mayor Brown had the opportunity to make it right but chose to

More...

Fair Use Disclaimer

Anyone who doesn't get their job back and feels they where discriminated against should start here.

USDA is an equal opportunity provider, employer and lender. To file a complaint of discrimination, write: USDA, Director, Office of Civil Rights, 1400 Independence Ave., S.W., Washington, D.C. 20250-9410 or call (800) 795-3272 (voice) or (202) 720-6382 (TDD).

AC

National - US Forest Service Announces Strategy To Replace Large Airtankers For Wildfire Efforts

National - NIOSH recommends clear SOPs for roadway emergencies ;
This in response to the death of Chance Zobel who was battling a median highway fire.

How is all this diversity hiring even legal? Last time I checked you couldn't ask candidates what their race or ethnic background is. You can't even ask if they are male or female. Because that would be discriminatory.

I have heard a quote through the grapevine that a fairly high up HR person said recently, "Maybe 10% of perm fire hiring this spring will be white males."
I'm all about a diverse work force. I truly believe women in fire is paramount. I couldn't care less what color your skin is, or where you last name says you are from.

But it has come down to hiring someone with a "ethnic" last name. Or picking a Julie instead of a Steve. Even though the Steve or the American last name is much more qualified.

I know this has happened in R-5 for years. I myself accepted a perm GS-5 in California years ago, only to have the engine captain call me two weeks later and say he had to retract the offer. I was told since my last name wasn't hispanic that I was out of luck. And, a hispanic told me this, and he was as dumbfounded and as pissed as I was.

On a basic level, there is no way any of this is legal. I feel for all the people fighting for their jobs. I feel for all the people in my position that will have to train all these new "diverse" people. I feel for all the people that will have compromised safety because of this.

Keep your stick on the ice, we're all in this together.

Signed,
Frustrated

R4 and Disbelief.

Hang in there, we in R5 are finding similar situations that you are reporting. Let's all keep a close eye on this as we go forward and if rehire eligible Firefighters begin to not get offers to return, report this information in our forum.

This is what's going on in our world. They are promising big changes. Reminds me of December 2007 when similar discussions were ordered by Pena. It took a revolt 5 months later before any changes happened.

ms

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

File Code: 5100
Date: February 8, 2012
Subject: Fire Work Environment Update
To: All Region 5 Employees

I want to take a moment to update you on the progress of the Fire Work Environment Group lead by Willie Thompson, Deputy Director FAM. The last of 11 focus groups representing each of the functional areas of our fire organization were finished on February 1, 2012. The chairs and representatives of each of these committees are to be commended for gathering employees to participate in the focus groups on fairly short notice.

During the focus group sessions in Sacramento, the Fire Work Environment Group heard a wide breadth of responses from a total of 221 employees. They heard from employees just beginning their careers, many mid-level career employees, and those with twenty plus years in federal service. There was also a tremendous response of feedback from the Fire Work Environment online survey. Your comments were pragmatic, sincere, and thoughtful and reflected the enthusiasm and professionalism of our fire organization.

Over the next few weeks, the group will be pouring over the myriad of responses to the 7 survey questions and categorizing them by topic. There were consistent “themes” identified throughout each focus group. In addition to their analysis, we will also be provided a Summary Report of themes that emerged from your feedback. For those of you that participated in the focus groups, you will be contacted in a couple of weeks by your chair to go over suggestions in helping us identify proposed actions. Your comments will help us incorporate changes within our fire organization that will benefit fire personnel in the future.

Robin Heard, Deputy Assistant for Administration, who sat in on several of the sessions, is impressed with the fire employees she met and heard from in Region 5 and would like to thank everyone for their participation. We appreciate your thoughtful responses helping to bring about positive changes to the Fire Work Environment.

I would like to personally thank the Fire Work Environment Group - Willie Thompson, Sharon AllenBrick, Shawna Legarza, Jeanne Pincha-Tulley, Kerri Gilliland, Jimmy Harris, Robert Garcia, Rick Cowell, Roger Caballero, Elizabeth Barrerra, Daniel Diaz, Lois Lawson, and Stanton Florea for all their hard work.

Our goal is to provide updates to you throughout this process. The Fire Work Environment Group will present a final draft Plan of Action to me on Friday, March 16, 2012.

/s/ Randy Moore
RANDY MOORE
Regional Forester

R4

You're not the only one in this boat, today R6 paused all temp hiring. All people that are not considered Long Term Seasonals will not be rehired at this time. Even if they left their previous forest with a good performance evaluation and were told they would be rehired. Right now they might not have a job this season. This is being done for the sake of diversity only, not necessarily for quality or skill of employees.

This is a slap in the face to everyone that's worked for the US forest service or will work for them. If you are a seasonal that has less than the stated 24 months of service and have a fully successful performance appraisal or better, you need to fight for your jobs. Call your forests, get a hold of your union reps, ask why you're not being rehired! Fight for your rehire eligibility! We are going to lose the future of the forest service by cutting folks that have skills and desire simply because they don't fit someone's plan!

Sign me,

disbelief.

Dear Readers:

My Mother's Cousin passed away on 2/2/12. Hal E. Anderson was 82. When I started Fighting fire in 1979, we were just getting up to speed on fire Behavior. Hal worked at the Missoula Fire Sciences lab with the Fire Behavior group and made a huge contribution to our understanding and faith in fire behavior. Just think, a generation ago we didn't have these tools. It makes me reflect on how we fought fires long ago and how far we have come. We are safer today because of this group of men and women that blazed the trail for us. Let's always remember the basics and apply today's new science to ensure our fire fighters safety.

RIP

Bushman 82

One answer to the question about how to deal with bears in camp...

www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?p=107379#post107379

Haw haw haw. Ab.

www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/889059

Hopefully available in the US.

Very powerful - I had goose bumps in the first 60 seconds.

Regards,

OB
(sufferings floods on the eastern seaboard, while the west is having the fires...)

All,

I am working on a recruitment presentation for local high school and college students. Does anyone know roughly how many seasonal firefighters that the Federal Government hires each year? Or how many the Forest Service or any of the DOI agencies hire?

Thanks!
Pappy

Region 4:

It has come to my attention that short-term seasonal employees may not have the opportunity to continue to build their careers because region 4 wants to make all “under 24 month seasonals” re-compete for their positions even though we have worked hard to stay in those positions and have stellar performance appraisals. I write this to discuss Region 4's Interim Direction of Seasonal Employee hiring, and approach to “Short-Term” (under 24 months) seasonal employees. My intentions are to build a case for short-term seasonal employee rehire eligibility and to enlist the region in engaging in conversations with immediate supervisors of short-term seasonal employees. I am doing this for myself and for all the seasonal employees in my position who are now fighting not for a job but for their careers and quality of life. At a time when the Department of Agriculture's Office of the Inspector General has determined that the Forest Service has not taken the necessary steps to ensure that it has sufficient qualified staff to meet future wildland fire management responsibilities, the Intermountain Region seems to be prioritizing the diversity check box on performance appraisals of hiring officials over encouraging new employees to build a career. Disclosure requirements are to remain completely anonymous and decisions based on race or ethnicity are not to be taken into account and if they are used, it is not only illegal but also immoral.

I perceive a deep disconnect between Region 4's hiring direction and the Department of Agriculture's Cultural Transformation Initiative. On the NFFE (Forest Service Council) website it says,

“The direction changes nothing for employees with less than 24 months of service. They still have rehire eligibility. The decision to rehire them or compete the position they filled in previous seasons is at the discretion of the hiring official, just as has been the case in the past.”

If this is true, there is a disturbing disconnect with Region 4 hiring between the hiring official's decision to make the process competitive and the spirit of Cultural Transformation: crew supervisors are unable to rehire respected and valued employees based on job performance alone.

If the Region is not rehiring employees who were fully successful and want to build a career with the Agency, then what example are they setting? In the July 20, 2011 letter to all Forest Service Employees addressing Cultural Transformation Harris D. Sherman, Under Secretary of Agriculture for Natural Resources and Environment, states

"A key part of inclusiveness is providing a workplace environment where employees are respected and valued for their contributions and can expect recognition and career advancement based on job performance alone.”

The region is doing the exact opposite of this direction. It would be a shame for region 4 to fail to hear a message that is so critical to the very foundations of the organization and the fundamentals of the American people. It makes me wonder why this is happening, and why seasonal employees who are fully successful and may be diverse in more ways than a protected class can capture, cannot be rehired despite their good work and FULLY SUCCESSFUL performance appraisals. If it is happening because of diversity, then does diversity trump performance? Never, in any of my private, public, or non-profit sector experience, would a well performing employee not be able to return to a previously held position due to diversity requirements ESPECIALLY when those requirements must remain confidential and when each person brings diversity. It makes me wonder what kind of example our government is setting for future generations. It makes me question core values I was raised to respect: hard work, quality work, and always exceeding expectations.

Martin Luther King once said,

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”

I have proved the content of my character. The short-term seasonals in Region 4 have proved the content of their character. Our supervisors want to hire us back, and we would like to return. We would like to build our careers in this agency. And so, I too have a dream. I have a dream that one day, I will not be judged on my sex, race, and ethnicity, but by the hard work that I do to prove myself and the performance appraisal I have to show for it and by the recommendation of my immediate supervisors who work with me day in and day out. If the decision for short-term seasonal employees is to compete again for every duty station in Region 4, then I feel the system has failed all of us. The system has told us, do not work hard, do not do a good job, do not get a good performance appraisal because it does not matter. Your hard work, your good job means nothing to us. It shows all of us who are valued and respected employees, that Region 4 does not support our dedication and accomplishments. They do not care what kind of job we do. They do not care to recognize quality. If they are not judging us on the job that we perform, then what are we being judged on? If that answer is diversity, then our government is going back in time. If the answer is diversity then we are being judged on our sex, race, and ethnicity, when these very attributes are supposed to remain completely confidential. If the answer is diversity and we are being judged on these personal attributes then what is happening is illegal.

In conclusion, we need support in this situation. I feel that the system to support a professional, dedicated and diverse workforce is being challenged. We need to band together and stand up for what is right. I will continue to fight for my job and the jobs of other high performing, hard working seasonal employees. We are the qualified staff required to meet the future wildland fire management responsibilities. We want to continue building our careers and we believe we still have rehire eligibility under 5 CFR 316 and the Forest Service Handbook 6109.12, Chapter 20. The time to make a difference is now. Our hard work shall pay off!

Sincerely,

9301

Hello,

I am seeking information and/or policy on dealing with bear activity during wildland firefighting, i.e., camps, encounters. Do you have any information on how firefighting camps may have been set up to avoid negative bear encounters, and if so, what methods were used? For example, are electric fences utilized to protect personal belongings and food? Are bear-resistant containers or canisters used to store foodstuffs, and if so, how do these accommodate large camps for longer periods of time?

Any information would be very helpful and appreciated. Thank you.

from the North

I'm writing something for a recruitment training class, and am looking for the old photo of Pres. Bush with a CalFire
Engine (with 2 emblems) and FS pickups in the pic. I need it fast, so hopefully someone can point me to a link?

Thanks,

-MJ

Readers, feel free to pick this up and share with your firefighters. Ab.

Technology is moving ahead. Here are some interesting developments:

Body sensor networks used to monitor heat stress
www.imedicalapps.com/2012/02/body-sensor-networks-monitor-heat-stress/

But it may not need to be a multi-sensor approach or an expensive approach. I heard from several mom acquaintances whose teens do motorcross competition and football that there is now a cell phone Ap can be combined with wearing an armband that lets you know through your cell phone if a person's core body temp is rising beyond what is safe. I'm awaiting that product info, but they said the band their kids wear is less than $25 and the warning message comes through a cell phone. Here's one product I googled, CorTemp Data Recorder but this isn't it. The moms said they got the message from one kid each through their phones. I need to try to contact them to get the product name and Ap.

People in a high stress working environment often do not know when their core temperatures are rising. If everyone on a crew is physically working hard in a hot environment, potentially with headache or discomfort and rising core temps themselves, others may not recognize a crewmate in trouble, especially if they have no slide in their slide tray about hyperthermia.

Just some food for thought.

Has anyone used a sensor band like this and the cellphone Ap system?

Mellie

Has there been any official word out about a waiver for firefighters taking the buyout? I've heard through the grapevine there will be no waiver this time for those wanting to maintain their fire quals after going with the buyout.

So far there has been no info at all come through my office about whether this is even going through. I'm the only fftr in my office, and the others are still waiting to hear if this is a done deal at all.

TS

Here is some help for RS, he posted 2/5

Also this is a great website loaded with info about KSAs or ECQs

www.resume-place.com/kathryn-k-troutman/

HH

I think those are copyrighted so I won't post them, but thanks. Website looks good. Ab.

I am looking for help on KSAs and resume, there was one person in the past but looks like they closed up shop. Is there any company that you know specializes in Wildland Fire applications?

Any help would be great…

RS

Capt 3724

Replies here on the hotlist: BOOTS Thread

From the Trinity Mountains to the Hills of Portero the Forestry Tech/Wildland Fire Fighter is smiling knowing he/she put in a good days work. As I was driving to work listening to a little Wade Black I thought about being black balled is not a good thing unless it's because the crew buggy goes by that and has the shield on the back door. Anyhow folks on any Forest that is not UNION need to get off the fence and get a UNION. In my minds eye it is in the best interest of all if it is the union who is bringing up the issue which a tissue won't cure, not the FIREFIGHTER who may not bring up the issue due to the 8-Ball effect which is alive and well. The UNION costs nothing if the employee decides not to pay, but dues paying and non-dues paying employees are represented by the Union if they desire.

Hell, I have fought fires for close to 20 seasons and it seems to me in my experience that out of the two employees I have had to terminate, one on a Union Forest and one on a Non-Union Forest and my experience was the Union Forest Employee stayed terminated despite having Vets Preference and the Non-Union Forest employee came back. Both in my view earned the right to be terminated and were not remorseful or accountable for their actions.

The argument that Non-Union Forests have to follow what Union Forests do is true in some instances, but not in many, kinda like being self-regulating. Why is it the LEOs don't work directly for the District Rangers? Answer that question and I think you will find why checks and balances are a good thing for the Greater Good.

Just my thoughts-

Go Union-Go Green Machine-Go!!!!!

Hi

My name is Natan, I am a Ranger in the National Parks Authority in Israel and a American citizen with a U.S. social security number.
I'm looking to raise my level of knowledge and experience in Firefighting in Wildland Fires.
I am interested in basic and advanced training and experience in anther places.
I would love to hear how I can fit in your courses or if you have any suggestion or advice.

Thank you,
natan

I support my association sitting down with Darrell Issa. I trust Casey Judd more than anyone else in my professional life, period! One comment; If anyone out there thinks Darrell Issa supports federal employees, you need your freaking head examined.

No one is leading the change more to cut your pay, cut your health care benefits and take away your retirement than Darrel Issa.

www.federaltimes.com/article/20111025/BENEFITS02/110250303/

http://blogs.federaltimes.com/federal-times-blog/2011/09/23/tpm-issa-proposes-eliminating-step-increases/

www.rollcall.com/issues/57_85/Democrats-Oppose-Second-Pay-Freeze-211815-1.html?pos=hbtxt

Anyone from NFFE know where I can find the outreaches for the upcoming R5 Fire Hire Event?

So Cal Ridges

On the subject of why wildland firefighters love their work, this is the most useless book I have read. To be a four season hotshot, on a crew in Northern Arizona, and believe that interviewing this crew qualifies you to draw valid conclusions about the thousands of wildland firefighters in the United States is somewhat the height of arrogance.

I am 80 years old, fought my first wildland fire when I was sixteen, retired after thirty five years, and continued to do fire reviews for fourteen years after retirement. Most of my life has been involved with wildland firefighters, and still is. During all that time I have asked myself why I loved this job so much, without ever getting an answer, and this book sure didn't answer it.

If it had been called something like a study of fourteen hotshots in Arizona I might have been able to give it a fair review. As it is, I can only give it zero chainsaws.

W. G. Todd

I added your review to the Books Review page. Ab.

Ab moved this up from the bottom: For more information on the Closure of CSTI visit our website at www.savecsti.com.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reduction, Relocation, and Dismantling of CSTI -- California Specialized Training Institute

The California Specialized Training Institute (CSTI), in its current form, will cease operations on 12/31/12. Most of the staff positions will be eliminated. The rest will be moved to Sacramento. CSTI will conduct limited emergency management training in Sacramento. CSTI will no longer provide training in hazardous materials response and criminal justice.

Governor’s 2012-13 Proposed Budget Reduction

The Governor’s 2012-13 proposed budget calls for a $1.5 million reduction of CSTI’s operating budget ($200,000 General Fund and $1.3 million federal fund). This decrease includes:

• Laying off over 2/3rds of the CSTI staff (total of 19 Instructors/Support Staff) leaving 9 positions.
• Closing the CSTI training facilities at Camp San Luis Obispo, including the Hazmat Field Training Facility, Criminal Justice Firing Range, Criminal Justice Simulation Facility and Emergency Operations Center (EOC) simulation room.

Effect on Local Government

Hazmat training will take place at three Joint Powers Authority (JPA) training facilities located in Sacramento, Del Valle and Riverside. No CSTI sponsored hazmat or criminal justice training will take place at any other location.

This proposal, and the draft plans put forth by CalEMA, make no provision for operating the CSTI Hazmat Outreach program. If CSTI staff will no longer provide training then the Instructor Certification program will be eliminated. If there is no staff to administer the Outreach program the users won’t be able to use this program. The CSTI printshop is scheduled to close which will eliminate printed materials being available to Outreach Instructors. If this proposal goes through there will be no staff to operate the program or to maintain curricula. If this program is lost then the training costs to local jurisdictions will increase as they won’t be able to provide training in-house.

CSTI presently conducts about 70% of its Emergency Management, Criminal Justice and Haz Mat training at locations throughout the State. The locations and dates are selected through consultations with local jurisdictions. If all Haz Mat training will take place at three designated locations, jurisdictions outside those designated areas will face increased travel expenses as Haz Mat training will no longer be provided at locations requested by local jurisdictions. With the reduction of staff, by 2/3, there is no guarantee emergency management training needs will be met. In addition the criminal justice office safety and terrorism program will no longer be offered.

This proposal won’t allow CSTI to develop customized or unique curricula to suit local needs. A large part of CSTI training has historically been created at the request of individual agencies or jurisdictions to meet their unique requirements. Under this proposal there won’t be sufficient staff or resources to create or teach these types of classes.

The only way the dismantling of CSTI can be stopped is by you contacting the Governor, your State Representative, State Representatives serving on the review of the CalEMA budget (see below), and Department of Finance (see below).

When contacting your governmental officials please share/ask:

1. The value of the training you have received at CSTI, why CSTI is important to the Emergency Management, Criminal Justice, and Hazardous Materials Training community.
2. Why does CalEMA currently support a $3.3 million dollar contract with State Military Department and Dept. of Energy contractor ORISE, $3.0 million dollars, to provide emergency management/training while CSTI is being dismantled? CSTI currently provides the same services these contractors are providing.

Mail, write, or fax the Governor’s Office and ask him to restore the proposed cuts in the budget and let CSTI continue to provide important specialized training to support local government, private, non-profit, and tribal entities.

Governor Jerry Brown
c/o State Capitol, Suite 1173
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: (916) 445-2841 Fax: (916) 558-3160
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Contact Legislature committees who will review the CalEMA budget proposal.

"I'm sorry but the "Gift" Robin talks about in her message is quite laughable to me. Regional hiring the gift that keeps on giving"

I think you are taking her quote out of context. I read it as intended for her HR employees who have to do all of work behind the scenes with printing out the applications, creating the lists, etc. For them the extra time is the Gift.

SK

Making the rounds:

From: Biehl, Gary -FS
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:38 PM
Subject: Fire Hire

We will be having a Spring Fire Hire combined with Apprentice Hire. Details attached. Make sure your employees get notified and get their applications updated in AVUE. The Fire Vacancy website is the best place to apply to AVUE from, it has all positions vacant or not by Forest covered in the hiring process with a link directly to AVUE for the appropriate announcement at www.fs.fed.us/r5/fire/trackingdb/.

That was my son's first season fighting fires and would like to give him photos for his 21st birthday this May. His father has 28 years, and one of our biggest regrets are not having photos.

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Sandi
Sent from my Kindle Fire

Anyone have any good FREE photos that can be reproduced for this purpose? Ab.

19 days until application submissions close. Still not one Forest in R5 has outreached even one of the dozens of
bargaining unit firefighter jobs that close on 2/21.

https://hrm.gdcii.com/outreach/Default.aspx

Central Cali Kid

Letter

Safety Alert

Please get this out to all those firefighters who left the agency between December 2008 and now, as their input would be very important.

www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2012/safe/2012-fire-work-environment-focus-groups.doc (194 K doc)

I had to wait to respond to the original question which is addressed in the comment two posts below.

SK makes some good points, especially about opportunities to move up. However when it comes to FF retirement, the world is not fair.

Here’s an example, and it relates to the natural resource duties performed in one’s career.

If a person were to ask how well new employees (those hired in late 60s and 70s) were informed on FF retirement – I am sure the overwhelming response would be “not very well.”

I am not a retirement specialist but I do know that in order to get ff retirement, it requires only one season - (90) days of primary firefighting as a basic requirement. A well informed employee would then have been told that you would move into a secondary ff retirement position – as long as there was not a break in service from “primary” firefighter management/duties. A good example is a former primary firefighter that moves into a “covered” secondary ff retirement position – Dispatch is a good example. Or a resource management position that is primarily fire management related. The point here is that many people get ff retirement with very limited line experience.

Now is this fair? Here’s a couple of thoughts –

I can account for several people who work in Fire Management now, fought fire on the line for MANY seasons, and are now in high level – and very MEANINGFUL fire management positions – and they WILL NOT get firefighter retirement. Why?

These employees at one time either took on an occupational series job that did not get classified for secondary firefighter retirement. Even though some of these folks have 35-40 years of service working for the agency, like jobs as foresters, – they got caught in the “missing link” syndrome. In other words, taking on jobs not covered by firefighter retirement (even with much of their career work actively engaged in fire management – including maintaining red card qualifications, going on fires every year and supporting fire programs in many facets. Is this fair? Not in my opinion – these are the employees that have to get attorneys to fight for their FF retirement, but only if they even have the energy to take on OPM and the Agency's complex, convoluted, retirement rules.

Another example is an employee who fought fire as a primary for almost a decade – got seriously injured, and later returned to work in a non-covered position. Were they advised, NO. But they carried on, and even went back in direct Fire Management positions at places like Regional FM offices, the WO FAM office, and at NIFC. Did it stop them from doing fire, AND natural resource management related work – NO.

These employees are dedicated, moved up in grade on their own merits, remain actively engaged and even fulfill high leadership and advisory roles in Safety, Fire Operations, Aviation and Risk Management - and continue working not just for the pay – but because they are committed to keeping the younger workforce safe, and on positive career tracks.

So – the questions above is a difficult one to interpret. Sometimes it’s not who you know but what you weren’t versed in with regards to ff retirement. Remember, these people began their careers in the late 60’s and 70’s, and because of poor counseling – or no counseling – still continue to work directly for fire management – but WILL NOT get ff retirement.

When the agencies went to diversity hiring in later years, and the culture did change to promote women in fire management careers – many of them were counseled well in how the retirement system worked. A good thing. For its intent – diversity hiring did its job and ensured new employees knew the rules. And even though the agency has done a good job at placing women and minorities into career paths – it just wasn’t the same for other classes of employees in reference to the quality of retirement counseling they received.

So what’s the issue? It is no secret that there are highly experienced white male employees who remain committed and dedicated to their careers, who continue fire management duties, and who will never see FF retirement.

Today, there is the perception, real or not, of the “90 day wonders” who put in their time as primary (even if they didn’t go on a fire!) and not only are pulling down high salaries today – but will also get FF retirement. Fair or not – it’s reality. So what have the agencies learned? In their efforts to recruit a diverse workforce, there are counselors who explain these benefits very well. And still there are hires that do their 90 days, (one season of primary firefighting) – know they’ll never want to do it again (too arduous, too dirty, whatever….) but they know the rules. They often are mentored and accommodated into secondary covered ff retirement positions.

Finally, let’s not forget that the FS is a natural resource management agency. Look at the most current letter of direction for 2012. Read through it – accelerated ecosystem restoration, FIRE management, and Coop forestry are priorities. Fire is as natural a force on the health of forests as are climate, disturbance, and human effects. Hard to separate fire from natural resource management.

Anyway – just some insights. All is not fair in the complex world of OPM and current society’s value systems. The important thing is do the job well, do it right – the systems are changing (again). And with “Cultural Transformation and Inclusion” as one of the five big priority ticket items in current direction – my advice to employees is know the retirement rules if you plan a career with the agency, and are lucky to have the opportunity to establish a career. If you have FF retirement questions – Ask. Before you find out decades later what could have been.

Yes – a candid answer to a ubiquitous question.

forkinthetrail

My vote is YES!

• They earned it!
• They have walked in our boots, and have the experience and training to speak knowledgeably about our world to those in DC who don't.
• There are opportunities out there for folks in our ranks to move up. Maybe someday that could be me applying for that job.

SK

** URGENT ** R5 Apprentice Information

I have just been informed by Gary Biehl and Liz Wright that R5 is planning a spring centralized fire hire GS-6 thru GS-9. The good news is they are wanting to make Apprentice selections at that time, so after the second announcement closes, we will have plenty of time to do qualifications, etc. So, the selection of R5 Apprentices in Sacramento, starting 2/20 is now cancelled until 4/9 to 4/20.

The dates are as follows:

2/21/2012 Last day for applicants to apply to GS-6 thru GS-9, HR will start generating referral lists on Wednesday, 2/22/2012
3/19/2012 HR gives copies of applications and spreadsheet of applicants to Fire
3/26 to 4/6 - SME for Apprentice and GS-6 thru GS-9
4/9 to 4/20 - Recommendations and selections made - HR processing selection packages

This will give HR enough time for the R5 Apprentice vacancies to close. ASC-HRM needs to have a discussion with R5 HR Service Team to discuss VRA hires and what information ASC-HRM needs to get from the units to process any Excepted Service Appointments and determine the timeline in receiving this information. I am hopeful to work this out so all Excepted Service Appointments are in the system so the Units will know how many of their positions are being filled this way.

I am thankful for the reprieve and not having R5 Apprentices in the middle of R3 and R4. This is an unexpected gift from R5!

I am looking at Monday or Tuesday of next week setting up a call to discuss Excepted Service Appointments, and who you would like me to invite from R5 Service Team. If this doesn't work for you, please let me know. THANKS

ROBIN L. IRVINE
Supervisory HR Specialist

Forest Service: Fiscal Year 2012 Final Program Direction (66 K doc)

There's a database of federal fire occurrences from 1980 to present (2010, they haven't done 2011 yet) located here:

Online arcIMS viewer (sort of like google maps)
http://wildfire.cr.usgs.gov/firehistory/viewer/viewer.htm

Data in shapefiles for use in arcmap
http://wildfire.cr.usgs.gov/firehistory/data.html

EE

I don't know which "regular employees" got the email about the safety survey, but who gets it influences what the replies and findings are, of course. You would hope that part time permanent firefighters would be included, but maybe this survey is targets safety of the non-fire work force.

One reason outside organizations/ universities/ etc are in the mix -- beside expertise in survey creation and analysis -- is that they are not subject to FOIA, so respondents' identities can be kept confidential.

Mellie