"THEY SAID IT" ARCHIVES
Home of the Wildland Firefighter
Does anybody have a copy of a 1 page story called, I believe, "Firing
with the General"?
It was a good read written by, I think Greg Keller.
I would like to read it again if anybody happens to have a copy of it.
Curious and looking...
||Here's an outstanding issue of Two More Chains from the Lassons Learned
Center (LLC), re: firing ops.
While I know many of you are still on the lines, it is
now very apparent that one of the topics that will be brought up in
Washington next month is the decision made by the Deputy Chief of State &
private Forestry James Hubbard to adopt a
"full containment" policy on all wildfires.
I'd like some feedback from folks in the field as to their thoughts on this
policy shift which, according to Hubbard is only
for the remainder of this season. It is unfortunate that politics have come
to play such a significant role in wildland firefighting.
Federal Wildland Fire Service Association
Below is additional information pertaining to the meeting scheduled for
Sept. 20th in Washington which the FWFSA has been invited to attend. While I
continue to put together my commentary, suffice it to say that our efforts
will be to suggest to the Senators that the first order of business for
Congress is to support efforts to create a more effective and efficient
federal wildfire response through fundamental reforms to the "status quo."
While that sounds relatively vague, I'm sure those of you who know me know
how I usually attack that issue!
While there I plan on making a last ditch effort to secure legislative &
administrative action on the classification issue. Coincidentally that week,
despite my best efforts, the Chief of the Forest Service, his Deputy and Mr.
Harbour are all out west while I'll be back east. That seems to be the usual
case. I smell a conspiracy :) I will find someone to talk to, though.
Additionally, long gone are the days I was enamored and awe-struck by
elected officials in DC and I have become more candid with each visit and I
plan to be brutally honest to those I meet with throughout the week that the
continued assault on the federal workforce must end and that to create a
more effective & efficient federal government. Congress must start to listen
to the federal workforce and solicit its ideas on how to become more
effective & efficient and reduce and/or eliminate waste & fiscal
mismanagement in any given federal agency.
To our incredible members, my sincerest thanks for the opportunity to direct
your voices to those in a position to affect positive change.
Below is more specific information about the meeting.
Date: September 20, 2012
Time: 3:00p.m. to 4:00p.m.
Location: S-207 of the United States Capitol Building
Guests: 10 to 15 leaders in the agriculture and fire safety communities
The meeting will be held in the Mansfield Room (S-207). We recommend using
the entrance at Constitution and Delaware -- you will find a white temporary
structure that serves as the entrance to the Senate side of the Capitol
Let them know you are there for an official meeting. After you go through
security, you will be guided to the appointments desk, where you will get a
badge and instructions to S-207.
You’ll want to allocate at least 20 – 30 minutes to get through security and
find the room location. We recommend taking a cab or the metro to the
meeting, as the Capitol does not provide parking for guests. The closest
parking lot is located at Union Station; other than that you will have to
find a timed meter 4 – 5 blocks away.
The meeting is designed to be a candid, round-table conversation to
discuss this year’s extreme weather activity and the 2012 Farm Bill, which
among many provisions contain wildfire and drought assistance. We are
bringing together key stakeholders in the agriculture and fire safety
communities to talk about the challenges they face under these conditions,
gain perspective on how the economy in rural communities is being affected,
and ways Congress can assist.
Senator Begich, Chairman of the Steering and Outreach Committee, will make
opening comments. Senator Debbie Stabenow, Chairwoman of the Senate
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry, will Co-Chair the meeting
and will also provide remarks. Other Senators are expected to attend and
will make statements as they arrive. Senator Begich will quickly open it up
for free-flow discussion. You should feel free to participate in the
conversation and add anecdotal stories of your experiences -- often these
are the most meaningful takeaways for the Senators.
Guests should prepare toplines (not formal written testimony) on what the
Senate can do to help rural communities impacted by severe weather
conditions and thoughts on the 2012 Farm Bill. A few questions to start off
- What does government do right when it comes to supporting the rural
community? Where does it present challenges?
- How can we support your efforts?
Notes will be taken at the meeting and distributed to all the Senators.
Guests are welcome to bring handouts, but we will distribute them after them
Touching story about a baby Bobcat "Chips" rescue...
By: Laurie L. Pearson
Chips Fire Information Officer - Trainee
August 26, 2012
LAKE ALMANOR -Baby Bobcat "Chips" Rescued From Chips Fire
CA-PNF-Chips HOTLIST thread
KRS Evans Adaptive Car Fundraiser:
For those of you who don’t know,
Union IHC is putting on a fundraiser for Krs Evans. Krs needs a new vehicle
and OWCP will only replace his old van with a used van. This type of vehicle
does not suit his needs. The van costs
way too much to drive and limits his ability to be independent. He needs a
smaller, appropriate, fuel-efficient and
So it is time we all step up and help a fellow Firefighter.
If you choose to give, also spread the word. For those that have given
KRS Evans Fundraiser Flyer
If any wealthy, generous donors are reading, you could give the ENTIRE
Wildland Fire fighting community a real BOOST with a sizable donation toward
a vehicle for KRS. Thanks in advance!
Firefighters, please dig deep. This donation is not tax deductible,
but it will make your heart sing... and it's the right thing to do!
KRS could be any one of us, struck by a falling snag and surviving, but
Hotlist thread on the CA-NOD-Rush fire :: Largest fire in California
Rush is the new largest fire-in-CA-history
Hanta virus deaths
Are there precautions being taken for Govt employees and what if a fire were
to start there in Yosemite National Park?
I, for one, am not sure that I would accept the assignment until they figure
it ALL out and mitigate the risk.
2nd Yosemite visitor dies of rodent-borne illness
AP - YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. -- A second person has died of a
rare, rodent-borne disease after visiting Yosemite National Park earlier
this summer and park officials are warned past visitors Monday to be aware
of some flu-like aches and symptoms. Health officials learned this weekend
of the second hantavirus death, which killed a person who visited the park
in June, spokesman Scott Gediman said in a statement. There was one other
confirmed case of the illness, and a fourth is being investigated.
Yosemite officials said the four visitors might have been exposed while
vacationing at the park's Curry Village, and are warning those who stayed in
the village's tent cabins from mid-June through the end of August to beware
of any symptoms of hantavirus, which can include fever, aches, dizziness and
chills. An outreach effort is under way to contact visitors from that period
who stayed in "Signature Tent Cabins," which have more insulation and
amenities than other tent cabins.
Federal health officials say symptoms may develop up to 5 weeks after
exposure to urine, droppings, or saliva of infected rodents, and Yosemite
advised visitors to watch for symptoms for up to six weeks.
Of the 587 documented U.S. cases since the virus was identified in 1993,
about one-third proved fatal. There is no specific treatment for the virus.
After-hours calls to Yosemite officials seeking further details were not
immediately returned Monday night. Following the first death, which was
reported earlier this month, state health officials advised anyone with
symptoms to seek medical attention and let doctors know if they were camping
in Yosemite. Officials said thousands of people visit the park every month,
so it would be impossible to track everyone who had set foot in Curry
Curry Village is the most popular and economical lodging area in the park, a
picturesque assemblage of rustic cabins at the base of the 3,000-foot
promontory Glacier Point.
Gediman told the San Francisco Chronicle that of the 408 tent cabins in the
village, 91 are of the "signature" variety where the four cases had stayed,
which feature more insulation and amenities than the others. It was not
clear how many people stayed in the cabins in the period in which park
officials are warning visitors. Gediman said contractors are working on the
signature cabins to protect park-goers. "They're doing everything they can
to eliminate areas where mice can get into the cabins," Gediman told the San
Francisco Chronicle. "This was never because the cabins were dirty, it was
never because we didn't take care of them. This is just because
approximately 20 percent of all deer mice are infected with hantavirus. And
they're here in Yosemite Valley." This year's deaths mark the first such
deaths in park visitors, although two others were stricken in a more remote
area in 2000 and 2010, officials said.
fair use disclaimer
Boise District BLM
72 hour report - Burn Injury on MM71 184 Fire (87 K pdf)
The Tinder Box
I and others assisted Chris Burchfield with
documentation and interviews for his new book "The Tinder Box" which has
been out a few months. This book is excellent. It covers all aspects of the
Consent Decree and how the Forest Service used and abused its own employees
in implementing it. It is a perfect in depth summary and a TRUE and factual
history of the Consent Decree! A The names of some of the reviewers on
amazon should be familiar to a lot of you!
Posted it on the
Fire Books Review page. Ab.
Boise District BLM
24 hour report - Burn Injury on MM71 184 Fire (72 K pdf)
24 Hour Report / Burn Injury on MM71 I84 Fire
To: Meagan Conry, Boise District Manager (acting)
Steve Ellis, Idaho State Director
Subject: 24 Hour Report- MM71 I84 Fire, Minor Burn Injury
The Following information is preliminary and is subject to change
LOCATION: MM71 I84 Fire, Southeast of Boise
DATE OF OCCURRENCE: August 23, 2012
TIME OF OCCURRENCE: Approximately 1500 Hours
ACTIVITY: Wildland Fire Suppression
NUMBER OF INJURIES: 1
NUMBER OF FATALITIES: 0
PROPERTY DAMAGE: None
On August 23rd at approximately 1500 hours a Boise District BLM employee
received Quarter size 2nd degree burns to his wrist and elbow. The
firefighter was performing mobile attack with a hardline hose when the
injury occurred. The fire fighter was transported by incident personnel to
St Luke’s Regional Medical Center in Boise Idaho, where he was treated and
released. A Wildland Fire Accident Investigation Team has been assembled and
will be in briefed at 1500 on August 24th.
/s/ Andy Delmas, Fire Management Officer, Boise District
BLM-Idaho Safety Manager
National Office Fire and Aviation Safety Manager
Idaho State Fire Management Officer
FWFSA invited to appear before the Senate Steering & Outreach Committee
I am pleased to report that even with little time left in this congressional
session, opportunities are arising to put forth, front and center, the
issues facing our Nation's federal wildland firefighters.
I have been invited to participate in a meeting with Senators of the Senate
Steering & Outreach Committee Sept. 20th in Washington DC to discuss the
impact of the current wildfire season and to have an opportunity to convey
to members of the Senate how the current management of the federal land
management agency fire programs continue to encumber our firefighters with
archaic pay & personnel policies which directly and indirectly drive the
costs of wildfire suppression needlessly higher.
It will be my intent to not only articulate the issues facing our
firefighters and our concerns over the fiscal management of the fire
programs but to offer real solutions which we believe will lead to improved
recruitment & retention; a more effective and efficient federal wildfire
response and thus save taxpayers significant sums each season.
As I've often said, education is the key. Opportunities to educate Congress,
especially those in the Senate, are few and far between. If any FWFSA
members, active or retired want to offer some ideas of issues to discuss
that may not necessarily be on top of my brain, please feel free to contact
me at 208-775-4577 or by email at
This invitation validates our hard work in developing and maintaining our
credibility on Capitol Hill. It is my sincerest hope it will lead to changes
that will provide our firefighters with the incentive to remain in the
federal system and provide to them a more rewarding and prosperous career.
It remains an incredible an honor to serve the federal wildland firefighting
Federal Wildland Fire Service Association
Great news! Ab.
Wildland Firefighter Apprentice Hiring:
To the best of my knowledge, R5, who
hires the overwhelming majority of Apprentices, hasn't hired an Apprentice
using a student program for a few years now. Might be a few here or there;
however the regional sponsored apprentice hire uses the 0462 series.
msDate: August 21, 2012
Subject: Pathways and the Wildland Firefighter Apprentice Program
To: Wildland Firefighter Apprentice
I want to personally inform you that an issue
has been raised about the accreditation of the Wildland Firefighter
Apprentice Program during the implementation of the new Pathways Program.
Resolving the issue is a top priority for Forest Service Leadership and we
are confident that we will be able to resolve it.
At this time, no action is needed on your part.
Enclosed is a Question and Answer document to provide additional
information. If you have any questions, please contact your regional fire
As information becomes available, updates will be provided to you on leadership’s progress towards resolution. Please keep
up the great work and know that your dedication to the Firefighter Apprentice Program is recognized and valued.
/s/ J Lenise Lago
Deputy Chief for Business Operations
cc: Apprentice Coordinators
Pathways and the Wildland Firefighter Apprentice Program
Questions and Answers
1. What is Pathways?
The new Pathways
Programs consist of three student programs that include: 1) an Internship
Program for current students; 2) the Recent Graduates Program for people who
have recently graduated from qualifying educational institutions or programs
(2 years from the date the graduate completed an academic course of study);
and 3) the reinvigorated Presidential Management Fellows (PMF) Program for
people who obtained an advanced degree (e.g., graduate or professional
degree) within the preceding two years. These programs collectively are the
Pathways Programs. The Internship Program effectively replaces the Student
Career Enrichment Program (SCEP) and the Student Temporary Employment
Program (STEP). The Pathways Programs should be fully implemented by
January 5, 2013.
2. What is the accreditation requirement under the Pathways Program?
At the time the education was obtained, the entire institution, applicable
school within the institution, or the applicable curriculum was
appropriately accredited by an accrediting body recognized by the U.S.
Department of Education (from Office of Personnel Management’s Qualification
Standards for General Schedule Position, Policies and Instructions).
3. What is the issue with accreditation as it relates to the Firefighter
Apprenticeship Program, and how was it identified?
In line with requirements for the implementation of new guidelines regarding
the Pathways Programs, every agency is reviewing its student programs to
ensure compliance with the new guidelines and regulations. It was during
this review that questions were asked about the Department of Education
accreditation requirement for the Fire Apprentice Program. While the
Wildland Firefighter Apprenticeship Program is accredited by the U.S.
Department of Labor (DOL) it is not accredited by the Department of
Education and therefore, not considered a qualifying education
institution/program per established Office of Personnel Management (OPM)
regulations for Pathway student hire programs.
4. Why is this only now an issue? The Firefighter Apprenticeship Program has
been a successful program for some time.
The Forest Service knew that the Firefighter Apprenticeship Program was
accredited by the U.S. Department of Labor and believed that the DOL
accreditation was sufficient to meet compliance with OPM regulations.
5. What is Forest Service doing to resolve this?
We are in the process of reviewing all employees who are currently in
student programs as STEP and SCEP to determine they meet all the
requirements of the new Pathways Program. This review includes employees in
SCEP appointments as Wildland Firefighter Apprentices.
6. What are the next steps?
We will be working with your Regional Fire Apprentice Coordinator to
complete a detailed review of your employee records to determine if there is
a possibility of your eligibility for a different hiring authority, such as
VRA, Peace Corps, Schedule A, or Student Program (if we can verify and
document actual enrollment in a degree or certificate program through an
accredited college). We are also researching to see if some of our
apprentices may have been previously eligible for selection for a
competitive appointment. This research is necessary to ensure employees can
be placed in legal appointments as soon as possible.
7. What will happen once the reviews are complete?
Once determinations have been made, employees who meet another hiring
authority will have their appointment corrected to a legal appointment.
Employees who are still deemed ineligible for another hiring authority will
be considered in a “Variance” request that would be presented to the Office
of Personnel Management (OPM) through USDA for approval to allow them to
complete the program. This step cannot happen until we exhaust all other
efforts to place Fire Apprentices in a legal hiring authority.
8. What is a variance and what is the process to request one?
A variation (or variance) is an exception from the strict letter of the
regulations that OPM is permitted to make when precise compliance with those
regulation would impose practical difficulties and unnecessary hardship and
when no other remedy exists within the regulation. The package is prepared
by Forest Service and routed through USDA who in turn must request the
variance from OPM.
9. While this is being resolved, what happens to career or career
conditional conversions or promotions that become due?
Personnel actions for our Firefighter Apprentices that were hired using the
student employment hiring authority (Schedule B), including promotions or
conversions to career or career conditional appointments, are currently on
hold. If we are able to find an appropriate hiring authority, we would then
be able to process conversions, promotions, and other actions. Promotion
actions will be reviewed on a case by case basis to determine whether they
can be processed retroactively. When we request the variance to staffing
regulations from OPM we plan to request authorization to make conversion
actions retroactive to the date they would have been effective absent this
Message from KRS our adventuring injured Hotshot:
Ok Guys, I need some
December 12 2012 my friends are getting married in Thailand.
I want to go, but haven't the coin for an airplane ticket let alone
any incidentals while there so I've come up with an idea to get myself
there & back.
What is it? Film the trip and hand it to the Travel Channel or
Discovery or one of the reality channels.
They flow $$ for the trip and get to document my trials & tribulations
along the way.
Sounds like a plan, right? Well, thing is those places do not accept
unsolicited ideas. So how do you get your foot... Or in my case, wheel
in the door? Apparently you have to "align with a production company
or agent in order to submit to us."
Now I can just google "video production company" or "agent" and take a
bunch of shots in the dark, which I'm going to do but I thought
someone I know might know someone who might know someone... You know
how those sort of things work.
So. Here's the gist:
Guy in a wheelchair who has flown 40+ times domestically flies
literally to the other side of the world and drops himself into
Thailand for a week.
There are obstacles to overcome at every turn even here in the 'states
where we have had the Americans with Disabilities Act since 1990.
Imagine another country- Are there ramps? Can I get into the bathroom?
In the taxi? On the bus? Do they have 'accessible' rooms at the hotel?
I understand most travel over there is by "Water Taxi". How the heck
does a guy in a chair get himself into (and out of) one of those? I
have no idea, but you all know my ability to Adapt & Overcome... I'll
figure it out.
How to overcome the foreseen challenges, and deal with the unforeseen
ones? Might make for some good TV, don't you think?
Now Gimps what to travel just as badly as anyone else, so I figure
I'll make myself the proverbial guinea-pig. Maybe I can cause a few
folk to overcome that fear of travel and go see Grand-Ma or something.
Plus imagine all the AB's (what we call you Able Bodied folk) who will
be curious.. Should get some pretty high ratings as well.
So. "All" I have to do is get it in front of the "right" person, who
one of you might know.
I'm busy writing up "The Pitch" so if you think you might know that
Right Person and could pass me a name I'd appreciate it.
PIOs Rocky Mtn Type 1 Team
Back on 8/6 Brenda Bowen posted to "They Said"
about starting a Facebook page to consolidate all the thank you notes,
photos, etc. to firefighters that were received on incidents that her IMT
had managed. I read the post with a passing interest..... and, then,
amazingly, the Rocky Mountain Type 1 Team that Brenda is a member of was
assigned to manage the Springs Fire which was threatening Garden Valley,
Idaho -- which is my home.
All of a sudden, I was on the other side of the incident -- I was a
community member instead of a team member -- not something I was familiar
with. I have to tell you -- Brenda's idea was absolutely embraced and
wonderful for this community. People wanted to thank the firefighters -- and
now there was a place to send their gratitude.
I was amazed at how this one idea took hold! The team then took the
letters, notes, thoughts.....coupled them with Kari Greer's photography work
and sent a thank you back out to the people of Boise County and Garden
Valley via youtube. Remember what we always preach to teams and fire
personnel about leaving a community with good, positive impressions?
Well...this is over the top great interaction -- way to interface with a
community Rocky Mtn team! Here's the link to the video:
Sierra Hotshot 35 year reunion...
This is the year that the Sierra
Hotshots celebrate 35 years of being an established crew. We would like to
put on a reunion
for past crew members to present.. 1978- Now.
If you have a contact or contact information please share it with me. Our
archives are pretty slim. Please contact me ASAP
so we can plan accordingly.
Spread the word,
Brian "Reggie" Grossman
Re: Report: Hot Shot crew refused to work forest fire day before firefighter
Incident Response Pocket Guide
Gold pages 17 & 18. Third and fourth bullet items on page 18.
Report: Hot Shot crew refused to work forest fire day before firefighter was killed
GRANGEVILLE — A U.S. Forest Service specialized fire crew refused to work
on the Steep Corner Fire managed by the Clearwater-Potlatch Timber
Protective Association the day before a 20-year-old firefighter was killed,
according to a report posted online.
In a SAFENET Wildland Fire Safety and Health Reporting Network document, a
superintendent of a Hot Shot crew of firefighters indicated there were a
number of safety hazards on the Steep Corner fire on which Anne Veseth was
killed Aug. 12.The report says the superintendent of the Forest Service crew
"said to send no one down the burned line through the middle of the fire the
(incident commander) has directed to go down, due to snags and previously
cut log decks. Line was still hot. As supt was hiking, he observed multiple
cedar snags burning from half way up down to the base."
The report went on to indicate the Forest Service crew refused to work on
the fire because of the way it was being managed by the CPTPA and the danger
of snags and other issues.
The next day Veseth was killed when one tree fell and crashed into
another tree, causing it to fall in a domino effect.
Fair Use Disclaimer
ID-NPF-Steep-Corner Firefighter Fatality
From Old LPF:
Rare flying tanker hit by vandals; fires rage, damage to plane's stabilizer puts aircrews at risk
Rare flying tanker hit
Coulson Flying Tankers is offering a $5,000 reward for information after
one its rare Martin Mars water bombers was vandalized on the weekend.
Company chief Wayne Coulson said Tuesday the damage could have had
"catastrophic" results. The bomber, the Hawaii Mars, was moored at Sproat
Lake near Port Alberni, Canada. It flies with a crew of two pilots and two
flight engineers. "Absolutely, they were at risk," Coulson said.
The vandalism, being investigated by Port Alberni RCMP, happened Saturday
evening when some people boated up to where the Mars was docked and
clambered aboard, apparently to jump off the plane's wings. (More at the
Sad news, a firefighter became ill after fighting the CA-RRU-Buck Fire.
(This is not related to the Airtanker drop.)
Inmate Dies After Fighting Buck Fire
The inmate, 44-year-old Jimmy Randolph, had been on firefighting duties.
A Fenner Canyon Conservation Camp inmate died at Desert Regional Hospital
Sunday, and his death is under investigation by Cal Fire and the California
Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. The inmate, 44-year-old Jimmy
Randolph, had been on firefighting duties.
"Prior to becoming ill on Saturday morning ..., Randolph had been assigned
to the Buck fire in Hemet," according to a Department of Corrections and
Rehabilitation statement. He died with his family at his bedside.
More at the link above...
Forest Service to Resume Night Flying
PRESS RELEASE Inkom, Idaho 8-16-12
The FWFSA responded to numerous press inquiries since yesterday in response
to the decision by the Forest Service to resume night flying as a result of
pressure from elected officials in California.
FWFSA President Casey Judd reiterated to the media the absolute primary
consideration for such policy changes is firefighter safety.
While the FWFSA must rely on these same elected officials in Washington to
reform the many archaic pay & personnel policies that have adversely
impacted our Nation's federal wildland firefighters for decades, Judd stated
that " Fire Policy should not be dictated by politicians nor should it
continue to be developed and implemented by Agency Line Officers who
collectively have little to no wildland firefighting experience or expertise
or said experience or expertise in the management of what is obviously the
largest fire department in the world."
"Often times, recommendations for such policy changes from politicians is
based on pressure from their constituency who also have little understanding
of the dynamics of 21st century wildfires" said Judd. "The safety and
well-being of our firefighters in the air and on the ground must be the
primary consideration. Sadly, more often than not those risking their lives
are the last to be consulted with, if at all" said Judd.
For more information on the FWFSA please feel free to email Casey at
72 hour report on the NV-WID-Holloway Entrapment and Shelter Deployment
72-hr-nv-wid Holloway Entrapment Shelter Deployment
For anyone out there
I am a former BLM employee. I held a career in fire for nine years before
being terminated due to false accusations against me by a former manager.
For the last six years I have fought to clear my name so that one day I
could return to the career I love. I have used my rights under the Freedom
of Information Act to obtain documentation from my former employer and other
federal agencies which could be used as evidence to clear my name. After a
long hard battle I now have in my possession files and documents which not
only clear my name but also proves BLM employees altered, forged documents
and knowingly provided false statements which were used to terminate my
I am now in the process of finding a law firm who specializes in federal
employment law. I would appreciate any help to find a law firm/lawyer in the
Pocatello, Idaho area but since this is a special case any law firm who
specializes in federal employment law would help.
Anne Veseth's passing:
As most of you know, Anne Veseth, age 20, was
struck and killed by a falling tree on Sunday Aug 12 while building line
around the 43-acre Steep Corner Fire near Orofino, ID (north-central ID).
Anne was a North Fork Ranger district employee, and at the time of the
accident, she was assigned to Engine 31 and working with a mix of folks and
employees from Clearwater Potlatch Timber Protection Association. Anne was in her second
summer of wildland firefighting. In the winter, she was a student at
Lewis-Clark State College in Lewiston, ID. Her older brother is also a
wildland firefighter. In addition, she has older sisters.
Two investigations, a Serious Accident Investigation (SAI) and an OSHA
investigation, are underway. Such investigations are standard to determine
what happened and whatever we can learn to make wildland firefighting safer.
Anne's memorial service
will take place this Saturday (8/18) 11 AM
in her hometown of Moscow, Idaho.
The service location was moved from the local Catholic church to the
larger Church of the Nazarene to accommodate the large number of family and
friends who attend. Our thoughts and prayers are with her family, friends
Always Remember: Anne Veseth
Hi Fire Professionals!
Understanding that August is generally a busy time of the year for fire, I
would not be asking for your time if I did not think that the results from
this study could make a real difference for the trainings and safety of fire
personnel. As the NWCG Leadership Sub-committee is very interested in its
results, as well as others.
Who am I: My name is Alexis Lewis, and I am a PhD candidate at Oregon State
University in Exercise and Sport Psychology and have been a wildland
firefighter for nine seasons. Based on some of my own, and others near
misses/accidents and leadership experiences in fire I have developed a drive
to build and enhance fire trainings and tools based on what firefighters
have expressed is important. I have been conducting research on wildland
firefighting leadership and decision-making performance since 2006; the
current research is the result of the previous six years’ work, including
previous work this summer and research with wildland firefighters to improve
work engagement and safety.
What: I am looking for 60 "Crews" (engines, hotshots, type 2s, modules,
fuels, helitack) to participate. The survey for crewmembers takes 5 minutes
to fill-out and the supervisors, 10-15 minutes.
How: If willing please email me at:
firstname.lastname@example.org, or if you would like more information on the
study you can go here
Thanks so much for your consideration!
Graduate Research Assistant
Exercise & Sport Science
Oregon State University
Arsonist Guilty of Murder in 2003 Old Fire Deaths
Re: database for redcards.
The only way I cna think of is if you used a program like IQS or IQCS to
record all your training and qual info, then you copuld print out a master
record to use as a "temporary' redcard. Those programs are great to track
training, quals ,and development anyway, and after you add ther person in
once, can be updated easily. All the fed fire Agencies use IQCS. Other
Agencies use IQS. I bet there are more programs like this as well that might
We have a bunch of crews that have taken and passed the wildland firefighter
training and with the wildfires this year they may need to be deployed. Our
red cards have not been sent out yet and I was wondering if there is a
database that we can use to get confirmation until the cards are physically
sent to us. Is there such a thing?
WA Conservation Corps
WA Dept. of Ecology
PO Box 47600
Olympia, WA 98504
Readers, does anyone know? Ab.
We have lost another promising young firefighter to a falling snag
and our hearts go out to Anne's family, friends and co-workers. Please keep
them in your thoughts and prayers.
I've been in touch with Burk Minor at the Wildland Firefighter
Foundation; they're helping make arrangements and smooth the way as much as
I suggest that if you haven't stopped by the
WFF BOOT recently, you should. Our "safety net" could use some
bolstering so Burk and Vicki and crew can keep helping our families in the
middle of these sad and stressful times.
All FS Employees
It is with great sadness that I inform you of the loss of one of our Fire
Fighters yesterday on the Steep Corner Fire near Orofino ID. The victim,
Anne Veseth, a seasonal employee of the Nez Perce - Clearwater National
Forest was apparently killed by a falling tree. Anne was 20 years old and in
her second season as a firefighter. I know her family and friends are
devastated by this tragic news, as are her colleagues on the forest and in
the fire fighting community. A Serious Accident Investigation Team is on its
way to try to learn everything we can from circumstances surrounding this
horrific event. Please join me in keeping the family, friends, and
colleagues of Anne Veseth in your hearts.
Lenise Lago, US Forest Service
Deputy Chief, Business Operations
Thank you for sharing the sad news. She, her family and friends are in
my thoughts and prayers. Ab.
Remembering Ernie Johnson
Has it really been 7 years since we lost Ernie Johnson? It doesn't seem
possible that time marches on, fire season after fire season. He would have
loved the challenges we are facing today. He would have been the first to
embrace new technology and see new ways of doing business. For we lost a
true leader when Ernie passed away. There are many who still mourn his loss
among his family, friends and colleagues. We do not forget the ones who went
before us. We remember them for their contributions. There are still Ernie
moments out there. You can see the twinkle of his eyes in his grandsons. You
can remember the stories of his contributions to the agency through his
inventions and leadership. But with his loss, we have all learned to
treasure every day moments a little more. Take time today to hug a friend,
check in with those you love and make a difference in someone's life. Tell a
story that puts a twinkle in your eye, Think of a new way of doing business.
Put the firefighter first as you make a decision. Call your family and tell
them how much you love them. And remember that each of you make a
difference. Thank you Ernie for all you did..... you made a difference in so
many lives and you are missed.
Julie J. Stewart - Ernie's friend
Always Remember Ernie Johnson
Major fires with extreme fire behavior being reported on the hotlist...
I teach a lot of S-130/ S-190's, and the way I explain it in these basic
Contained- This is about the fire's immediate growth. Do you have a
"line" around it, and a reasonable chance that this line will hold?
So this measurement isn't worried about tomorrow, or two days out, just for
now, has it stopped getting bigger?
In between these two labels is the rehab or mop-up you will perform to
secure the fire permanently.
Controlled- Now think about tomorrow and time forward. If the wind
changes, things dry out, whatever... Can you leave this fire and be sure
that it will not get out?
If you can walk away, take no further action, and KNOW that the fire will
not escape, then it is controlled.
I know these aren't technical measurements of how far in to mop up, etc. but
sometimes these things are best conveyed by broad concepts.
For example, I had a fire in a 50 acre block of pine trees that I responded
to burning in the middle of a 2000 acre orange grove. Once I arrived on
scene and observed the condition of the grove, I was able to call the fire
both contained, and controlled, even though it was ripping through the tops
of pine trees very impressively. Flame lengths were upwards of 100 ft.
But the pine stand was surrounded by a 60 foot swath of sugar-sand at its
most narrow point, therefore the fire was contained. And even if it spotted
into the grove, the irrigation was on, and there was simply no way this
young green well mowed and soaking wet grove would carry the fire.
And considering the shear size of the grove around this block, there simply
was no threat of escape.
In essence the considering the grove and sugar-sand as a barrier there was
about a 1 mile buffer to the nearest burnable "rough", and this was upwind.
So without any action on my part the fire was contained and controlled.
Just my way of thinking, but these concepts are too involved for set
measurements. It requires the judgment to consider the time of year, the
fuels, spotting potential, chance of reburn, etc.
Only by considering all of these factors can you decide how or when to make
the call of contained/ controlled.
Flash in Florida
Did you take into account the
possibility of burning sands (tongue firmly in cheek!) Ab.
CA-CCD-Jawbone Canyon Fire
These two photos are of one of the CA-CCD-Jawbone
Canyon Fires in KRN. Taken coming in from the west
of the fires, from Sand Canyon on 8/11/12.
Photos compliments of Rick. (0812)
Thanks, I added them to the
Fire 47 photo page. Ab.
South Dakota - Safety Stand-down held in honor of Firefighter Trampus
Haskvitz and State Engine 561
Today -- One Year Anniversary.
Details and photo on the
There's a story that ran on the East County Magazine, the photo is from
1/4 up Chihuahua Road last night... feel free to use it.
Lord knows you guys are one of our many resources.
And I need to get more water to put in the truck, since we distributed
Tom and Nadin Abbott
Pleased to be of service! Thanks for distributing water and for
reporting! I added the photo to the
Engines 29 photo page. Ab.
Fire Helicopter photo from Georgia:
Buena Vista GA: Fire helicopter from Buena Vista GA. Submitted by
Ellis Leeder, Buena Vista, GA.
Thanks, I put it on
Helicopters 30 photo page. Ab.
Brief History of the California Department of Forestry from 1957 (916
K pdf), if you'd please share it.
Interesting read. Thanks, Ab.
Let me add to NPS Captain's reply. In order to control the fire, you need to
mop the edge, however far in it takes for the fuel type. Also snags
threatening containment lines need to be put out or felled. Rolling debris
needs to be secured as well as interior pockets of fuel that could torch
days later, especially if the weather changes. Basically you are saying
there is NO chance of it escaping containment! Your reputation depends on
Out, means you could cold trail the entire fire and not find heat.
“Contained” and ”Controlled”
the definitions currently applied to what the 209 is requesting irregardless
of what each agency or department wishes to define them as.
Containment - fire line built around a fire. sometimes a
moving target with regards to indirect fire line and firing operations. IC's
use their own formula for solving that problem but basically build the line
and give it 12 to 24 hours to hold and it is good contained line. Using fire
scars, rivers, lakes and other natural features are bonus points. Worst
thing you can do is put down on the 209 100% contained as soon as a DIVS
calls it in and at the end of shift they call and say they just lost it all.
Controlled - Each IC has their own comfort level based on fuel
type, weather, topography, and resource availability. Build the line and
hang on to it for some period of time till you can say with some comfort
level "it wont move".
understand, some of the politics and economics with both of these terms. for
the federal and some states, these terms mean very real and important
milestones that will force questions to be asked if your hanging on to an
inordinate about of resources after you call it 100% controlled. Your
ability to be ranked in priority (i.e. get stuff) will hinge on these terms
Wow, to think I still remember all this crap!
“Contained” and ”Controlled”
Matt from Carbondale CO
Generally a fire will be called contained when there is hand line all the
way around the fire.
Controlled is a term used when there is no longer a threat of the fire
flaring up and crossing the containment lines.
Controlled status can happen quickly on small incidents and can take weeks
on larger incidents.
Hope this helps
Former NPS Cap’n
“Contained” and ”Controlled”
Do you mind tossing a question out for
There is slight debate here about the definitions of, and the difference
between “Contained” and ”Controlled” stages…
ie: when to declare a fire one or the other.
Matt from Carbondale CO
C-27J = airtankers?
This is being phased out by the Air Force and Guard because Lockheed won
the contract for additional aircraft in that category. Congressman Schiff
(D) of California has proposed that the Forest Service pick up 27 to use as
air tankers. It looks like they would fit the bill quite well. The possible
problem I see is that they would try to use a variation of the MAFFS aerosol
system instead of a real tank system. With Aero Union not operating they
would have to put something together to do the mods. It could probably be
about a 3000 gallon tanker. Its the C-27J if the link doesn't work.
There are new photos on the following photo pages. Most are current
fires. Some were sent in last year. Ab.
Engine from Reserve NM, Clearwter NF Engine 51 with storm a'brewin'. Thanks
to Cecil R.
Engine 61 from The Nez Perce NF;
the Round Top Fire Crew
ID - Liz Butte Cabin Wrap, 2011. Thanks to Cecil R.
ID- The Liz Butte Fire and Wietas Column, 2011. Thanks to Cecil R.;
the CA- Chips column photos from earlier today;
also, there's a wonderful photo of Elk running from the Mill Fire on the CA-
Mendocino NF. Thanks to Eric C.
has a nice photo of the Lakeview Vet Crew with the VLAT 911 in Phoenix AZ.
Colorful. Thanks, Mike.
has the Old Lochsa FAM Emblem from Cecil R. Thanks;
the Texas Canyon Engine 31 logo from the ANF, thanks SF;
and the Slate Mountain WFM Logo from the Sequoias. Thanks SR.
Thanks everyone! Ab.
Fire by George R. Stewart
You made me go out into the garage and dig thru the box of old books.
Found Fire and also another one by Stewart
called Storm. Both great books and worth the time to read. He
was great in his day – guess I’ll read both again.
Photos of the column/blowup on the LPF Chips fire on
8/5/12. There's a photo from near Quincy, one from Jim in Chico and one by
Cafban from a high vantage point. Chips is expected to be very active again
Fire Photos 47
Also check out the 2 small photos on the same page from the
WA-BLM-Antoine 2. Ab.
Here's a photo of the cumulus from the Chips Creek burn as seen from Chico
today around noon 8-5-2012. My old team is there again on the same piece of
ground we were on in 2000 for the Storie Fire. My, these fires are really
repetitive. Seams like the same ground just burns over and over.
PS I'm hoping to be a neighbor by September!
Fire Photos 47
Pretty impressive fire behavior 8/5 on the Chips Incident. I realize that
this was a human caused fire, but all these landscapes are going to burn at
one time or another, and from my perspective, I would like to see it burn
under our terms and conditions (Rx fire). Do nothing and Mother will do it
her way. We must be more proactive in out burn programs and get the number
of treated acres up or we will end up with more type conversion type fires
like this one. They are just too damaging, dangerous and expensive.
Fire Photos 47
Fire by George R. Stewart
I have owned this book over 43 years
- I know that because it sports my maiden name. I reread this book
yearly even though the pages are yellowed and falling out. Truth is truth
and reality is reality regardless of how
old and basic the knowledge is. Before one fights fire, they need to read
this book. Highly recommend it !
Mother Nature Always Bats Last
I am one of the PIOs on the Rocky Mountain Type 1 Incident Management Team.
As PIOs, we tend to get thank you letters that trickle in to us long after
the firefighters have moved on to other assignments. After the Myrtle Fire
in South Dakota, I received a very touching letter that was forwarded to me
by a friend’s mom. I thought it was a shame that the firefighters she was
writing about would never see that letter. Yesterday I decided to do
something about that. The Rocky Mountain Type 1 PIOs now have a Facebook
page just for the thank yous that we receive. Our hope is that firefighters
assigned to our incidents will visit our page to see what has been posted.
Unfortunately, I am not sure I will be able to go back and find all of the
letters, but we have a start. Currently we have thank you notes posted from
both the Myrtle (you really need to visit the site and read the letter) and
Pine Ridge fires. I am still looking for those we received on High Park
because I know they are out there!
I am hoping you can help us get the word out about our new page
Great idea!. Ab.
I've posted some new photos on
Fire 47, and
Airtankers 37 photo pages.
All are from current fires this season including the Colorado High
Park Fire, the Oregon Long Draw, Wyoming Fontenelle, Oregon Crack in the
Ground. Thanks to JH and JS. I have some more I'm working on.
Evidently some contributors watched the PNF Chips blow up and photographed
it. Awesome! Ab.
Hi AB and All,
I wasn't sure if the attached new clinical treatment guidelines had been
posted. If they have been I apologize for the redundancy.
Also word that the Dept. of Labor has recently confirmed that the
Apprenticeship program will not be recognized as an accredited educational
program by the Dept. of Education as a result of the new Pathways Reg?
Perhaps someone out there knows a bit more than I do and can share as I try
to get some additional information.
Federal Wildland Fire Service Association
Clinical Treatment Guidelines for Wildland Fire Medical Units Memo
Clinical Treatment Guidelines for Wildland Fire Medical Units Attachment
Thanks, Casey. Ab.
Abs & All,
I ran into the Union Hotshots in Missoula a couple of weeks ago and their
Sup Jody Prummer told me about about a fundraiser the Union Hotshots have
organized. The fundraiser is to buy a car for Krstopher Evans, the Plumas
Hotshot who was injured in 2001 when a falling tree struck him on the back
of the head. Krstopher is paralyzed from the chest down and requires a
specially modified vehicle to get around in. Unfortunately, the van that
OWCP has provided for him is a gas guzzler that is too expensive for him to
One of the inspirational things that Krstopher does these days is to give
presentations to fire organizations to remind us that we are not invincible
and that we all need help at times. I am told his presentations are very
powerful and moving.
The Union Hotshots are trying to raise enough money to buy a vehicle for
Krstopher that gets decent gas mileage. The vehicle will also have to be
modified for Krstopher to drive, which will cost additional money. I
encourage anyone who is looking for a good cause to donate to this
fundraiser. The Union Hotshots can be contacted at:
3502 Highway 30
La Grande, OR 97850
The Union Hotshots have created a brochure that explains the fundraiser and
how to donate. This is a great way to help one of our own.
Send us a brochure or a link for it. We're happy to post it
here. KRS, we support you, man. Ab.
Heads up: Lightning in norcal and nevada
West Basin fire weather thread:
ONCC Northern CA has links to Weather Forecast Offices and a red flag
The Salt Creek Fire North of Redding California could be used as a text book
for interagency cooperation. This was a fire in the Mutual Threat Zone, near
Shasta Lake. The Forest Service, CalFire, Shasta County Fire, Redding City
and several Local Fire Districts responded...lots of engines of all colors !
Two USFS Heavy air tankers, 4 CalFire S-2's and a mix of Fed and State
helicopters made up the Air Attack.
It tickles and old fire dog like me to see the system work so well . These
agencies meshed into one good firefighting unit that had no regard for
The USFS NorCal Type 2 team performed equally well. This was a tough WUI
fire with over 100 houses under threat in 105 degree temperatures. Not one
dwelling was lost.
This 970 acre, very heavily fueled timber fire is already in mopup and demob.
That's a superb effort .
Congratulations to all of the Agencies involved for making those cooperative
agreements and keeping them in place. Congratulations to the Firegoers who
make the agreements work.
I agree, Nice work! Hotlist on
Salt Creek Fire. Ab.
From Midland, screensave "maps", posted on the hotlist
Fires burning SE
of Oklahoma City, OK, between Norman and Slaughterhouse, and the
Fire burning SE of Oklahoma City, OK, between Norman and Slaughterhouse
OK; large smoke signature to the east.
The fire near the highway to the ENE between Oklahoma City and Tulsa is
"Luther". Large smoke footprint to the east there as well.
Don't know the larger fire NE of there with the small smoke signature, no OK
fires are named on the modis map, just appear as hotspots.
Screensave of Fires map from wunderground:
Screensave of Modis on Google Earth:
Hotlist thread is in Southern Region/ Oklahoma -Cleveland County
Fires/ Questions and Answers because it's not clear what the unit
identifier should be. They have a different system than the West, as I
understand it... Ab.
To Chief John Hawkins re the Volcano Fire:
Thank you Chief for allowing the system to work the way
it used to! We didn’t care who showed up on
our wild fires. WE needed good
strong qualified help and we got it. Color of trucks meant nothing. Quality
of firefighters did become a true asset. Together we saved a lot. This
operation proved to us old timers that
the spirit is still there, as well as
Thank you for your leadership and resurrection of the
fact that together we can be successful. The number
of residents whose homes
were saved is a true testimony to how good all of us “together" can do a
job! Memories of our “Secret Fire Operation” with Oak Grove,
Dripping Springs, Henshaw and Warner
Springs still stands as a testimony to
that fact. We just went and put it out. If there were differences it was up
to the higher ups to work those out. The fire perimeter was stopped. Right
now you examples reenergize us
Howzit Scott (Pohakuloa Fire)
Nice to see some "locals" on TheySaid. I'm heading your way next week as we
own a home in Keaau and we're
bringing Vicki Minor of the Wildland Firefighter Foundation with us for a
much needed and deserved vacation.
Federal Wildland Fire Service Association
Have a GREAT time in Hawaii! Ab.
I am getting old here, But I am looking for a memo that I think came out a
couple of years ago.
It was about team members going on fires and if it was a long drive you
could have someone else
go with you for the safety of the drive even if they were not ordered up for
Still have a great time out there
It’s been a while since I was on here last. I would like to ask if someone
has the link on instructions on how to
make the gasner pack. I did it before and of course has since lost the paper
and link. Can’t remember if I had
to log in or not. Could you please help.
Pohakuloa Fire and Emergency Services, HI
Hi Scott, you're here, simply by
emailing Ab, but you should register for the Hotlist. Lots of info shared
First of all, it's the Gansner Hosepack for progressive
hoselays. If I recall correctly from discussions over a beer with Original
Ab (Steve), this configuration originated on the Plumas National Forest and
was named after a local bar in Steve's old stompin' grounds. Happy birthday
Does anyone know where the 7/4/2007 link to the pdf went when the new
FS website was built? Is there a tinyurl? This one no longer works. http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/academy/Documents/Complete%20hosepack%20Guide.pdf
OK, I found this pdf I had saved in my files. This must be the one:
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2007/complete_hosepack_guide.pdf (2,168 K pdf)
Here's a fine message of thanks from Chief John Hawkins to his "troops"
that's circulating behind the scenes. I contacted John to see if it would be
OK to post it here and he said yes.
Job well done. Be safe out there! Ab.
From: Hawkins, John
Riverside Unit & Riverside County Fire/County OES Personnel,
From my HEART, Thank You so much for the great job you did yesterday at
the Volcano Fire. I watched your work whether on the ground or from the
air, I heard your heart felt stories about the fire fights you faced at
the head of the fire and saw the emotion in your eyes, I saw the support
from County OES and from our personnel behind the scenes who support the
front line Firefighters and I heard the appreciative statements from
victims and residents. Your work was amazing.
Attached are pictures of the fire taken from Air Tac 310 (BC Justin
Picture IMG 0330a was taken 10-12 minutes after the arrival.
Picture IMG 0336 was taken before the fire hit the structures in the
lower left side of the picture. An orthophoto fire perimeter map is also
Volcano Fire map
(258 K pdf)
We committed 35 Engine Companies, 11 Fire Crews, 4 Dozers, 6 Copters, 6
Air Tankers and 2 Air Tactical Planes to the Volcano Fire. The Team of
Firefighters assembled, were organized, directed and responded to the
challenge. Our personnel care and care a bunch. It is so evident! Few
Organizations can implement and effectively handle such an emergency in
such a compressed time frame.
We are lucky that we enjoy great Public Safety support from our Elected
Officials. They built and have supported our integrated, cooperative,
Regional Fire Protection System. Our system is strong because of the
additive values of the State, County and City’s contributions. Our
system is exactly what every major fire after action report recommends.
We are lucky enough to enjoy the system. Yesterday, your work via the
system paid dividends beyond belief.
Again, from my HEART, I respect and thank everyone of you so much. Words
don’t really express how proud you make me. As always, take care, be
safe, have fun and live the dream…
Unit & County Fire Chief John R. Hawkins
Riverside County Fire Department
Thanks for the photos, map and message, John, and for your leadership and service! Ab.
Here's an interesting bit of production trivia that has made a difference in
the lives of many blind employees while helping firefighters and citizens.
message from FEDS (36 K pdf), regarding the Cost of a Federal
Career. As most know, FEDS provides Professional Liability Insurance.
Firefighters could understand two things:
1. With the requirement of an OIG investigation into every fire fatality,
burnover, or entrapment for FS personnel AND the possibility of criminal
prosecution, the criminal benefits of PLI are critical to a firefighter’s
livelihood and financial security.
2. Most federal firefighters are eligible for partial agency reimbursement
for a premium as low as $135 annually.
Went up and looked at the CA-PNF-Chips fire this morning. Impressive
pyrocumulus for a while. Walking
through some rough real estate. Will probably go big before it is said and
All the Best,
Thanks, Cafban. I featured it on our
and made it a
Status of Nathan Fyock, making the rounds in CAL FIRE; thanks to 4711.
Subject: Nathan Fyock
I am pleased to report on Nathan’s condition today. Nathan has been
recovering well this week and is in good spirits. A very specialized Doctor
at Stanford University Medical Center in Palo Alto, CA has accepted him as a
patient. The details on the transfer are still being worked out but they are
saying it will happen today. Nate and his family are very excited about the
transfer. There are still no guarantees about the final outcome but things
have been looking increasingly optimistic. Nate and Michelle are thankful
for the continued support and well wishes. I will update again when I
receive more information.
Paul G. Speer
Assistant County Fire Warden
Tuolumne County Fire Department
CA-PNF-Chips fire has "exploded". You can see it on the animated
satellite and we're hearing there's pyrocumulus buildup from a member of the
public in Grass Valley.
And here's 6+ min of streaming video of the CA-RRU-Volcano (Murrieta
ATGS plane -
Aero Commander 500-S -- Forced landing due to out of gas...
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Monday, July 23, 2012 in Elko, NV
Aircraft: AERO COMMANDER 500 S, registration: N535SA
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.
On July 23, 2012, about 1745 Pacific daylight time, an Aero Commander
500-S, N535SA, was substantially damaged during an off-airport forced
landing near Elko, Nevada, due to the complete loss of power in both
engines. Neither the pilot nor the observer was injured. The public-use
flight was operated by the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
as an air-attack coordinator for aerial forest firefighting activity.
The airplane was owned and piloted by Spur Aviation of Twin Falls,
Idaho. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) flight plan was filed for the flight.
According to the observer, who was a BLM employee, the flight departed
Elko International Airport (EKO) about 1315, and flew to the vicinity of
the fire, located about 15 minutes east of EKO. Interagency Dispatch
Center records indicated that at 1319, the pilot radioed that they were
airborne, with 4 hours 30 minutes of fuel on board. The airplane
loitered in the vicinity of the fire and the observer coordinated the
air attacks. About 1730, the pilot notified the observer that they had
to depart the fire locale for a return to EKO, and shortly thereafter,
the airplane turned on course for EKO. While en route to EKO, at a point
which the observer estimated was 4 to 5 minutes away from EKO, the
engines started "surging," and the pilot then decided that due to
distance and terrain considerations, he would land on a road instead of
attempting to return to EKO. Interagency Dispatch Center records
indicated that about 1744, the flight radioed that the pilot was
planning to land on a road, and that they would need assistance
controlling road traffic. About 1751, the flight radioed that they had
landed on the road and the occupants were uninjured, but that the
airplane was damaged.
Dispatch records indicated that the airplane was pushed clear of the
road about 1830. According to information provided by first responders,
the airplane landed on a straight section of road about 2,300 feet long,
at a location about 6 miles southeast of EKO. The landing site elevation
was about 5,300 feet above mean sea level. The outboard sections of both
wings were damaged by impact with road signs; the airplane was otherwise
undamaged. Personnel from the FAA, BLM, and the United States Department
of Interior (DOI) examined the airplane 2 days after the event. They
reported that a total of about 1 gallon of fuel was recovered from the
FAA information indicated that the airplane was manufactured in 1972,
and was equipped with two Lycoming TIO-540 series piston engines. Spur
Aviation held a 14 CFR Part 135 operating certificate. The pilot held
multiple pilot certificates and ratings, and was appropriately
certificated and rated for the accident airplane make and model. The
pilot's records indicated that he had a total flight experience of about
16,800 hours, including about 1,500 hours in the accident airplane make
and model. His most recent FAA second-class medical certificate was
issued in April 2012, and his most recent flight review was completed in
The EKO 1756 automated weather observation included winds from 330
degrees at 8 knots with gusts to 17 knots; visibility 10 miles; few
clouds at 11,000 feet; temperature 24 degrees C; dew point 12 degrees C;
and an altimeter setting of 30.13 inches of mercury.
No Info from our Aviation Safety Offices in 7 Days too busy dealing with
Air Tanker Study!!!!
Thanks for the info. Ab.
NE-NBF-Ash Creek ATV Accident - 72 hr expanded report
Thanks to those that didn't post this but sent Ab a "heads up".
Stanza Fire escaped IA in 2002:
In regard to Mellie's post on the Stanza Fire. I just want to clarify
that it was 5 crewmembers from Crew 2, Happy Camp RD that initial attacked
the Stanza Fire. They were able to contain it during the night and actually
turned the fire over to a CDC Crew the next day . The fire escaped
containment later that same day. Please post this for Mellie and all to
read. Thank you
Retired Wildland Firefighter
Thanks, man. Appreciate the clarification. Ab.