"THEY SAID IT" ARCHIVES
Home of the Wildland Firefighter
I am glad to see others that have offered thanks for your articles and
passing of knowledge. In today's day and age
we are all so busy and it's
easy to take things for granted. I know I appreciate these articles that get
sent out and I
have a file in my desk full of them. Likewise I send them on
to the crew, especially during the winter months. I
encourage them to stay
engaged during their time off and this is a great way for them to do so. I
also hear back from
those that appreciate the material, but that fails to
make it back to you.
Again thanks for the commitment to helping IHC community, as well as the
fire community in general.
Lone Peak IHC, Supt.
Thank you to so many of you for the feedback as well as noting something
many of people feel regarding EMS in relation to wildland fire operations. I
often wonder at times when I post to WLF about EMS articles that have a care
concept if people are getting the message and actually having those
discussions within their agency or crew. I have included a specific email
from one such person that send me a note of thanks. Their life or the lives
of their co-workers could potentially benefit from it.
To follow up the second item, many states and even the NREMT do accept
"self-study" as a standard practice. While it cannot be your entire
recertification or Continuing Education (CE) hours, it provides another
source of free CE (which is part of my goal here), keeps people updated as
to research that is being done to improve care, allows for wildland fire
personnel to go out and practice something that they may have read about
(again, more CE logged under "Hands-On"), and it also keeps people on the
same sheet of music in relation to Standards of Care.
An example of that is tourniquets. For many years people thought them to be
very bad. And yet the US Military (being often at the forefront of medical
changes due to combat) changed the way urban EMS thinks and here we are
today using them on a regular basis. Ironically we still do not have them
included in the NIFC 10 person kit. People have said "oh well, use your
belt". About three months ago I posted an article about tourniquets and Dan
Kleinman (Boise NIMO) followed up with how first hand this summer during the
Custer Mob assignment he saw how effective they are to an incident that
happened when we all were in camp.
To close out the the "Self-Study" topic, as you log article reviews onto
your CE tracking sheet or CE software, that you, your training officer, and
medical director will then sign that form that is turned into the state ems
office or NREMTP. By signing that document all interested signature parties
are validating that they are being honest. As you are probably well aware,
there are a number of individuals who have had licenses audited and pulled
from them because they did not have any validation of reading that article
or doing that hands on. Personally, I keep every article I read and have
many of them with highlighting all over them as important points within the
article for me. Additionally, I often use them as teaching tools in classes
I present. The person reads the article then must take a test and get an 80
percent to pass and they then receive a certificate of completion. That way
it solidifies it even more.
I have attached the Idaho version of recertification form for all to see as
http://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/ Portals Medical EMS/Paramedic Renewal Application Apr 2012.pdf
I have used this method as well as many other agency provided topics to CE
for both NREMT and State (I am licensed in a number of states) and not once
has it been a problem. Again, you must have a way to validate and often your
training officer or medical director can do that.
I do hope this helps KSENGB and so many others.
FYI: For December I will be doing a full write-up on the Custer Cluster
Arterial Bleed and posting for review. January I will be doing a write up on
how to get all the hours maximized for State and NREMT as recertification
will be coming right around the corner for NREMT (3/31/13), and guess what,
you have more than you know about; trust me.
If others have questions about licensure, training, or such related, please
feel free to give a shout. Just google my name and wildland firefighter/paramedic and you'll find my email and phone.
Bill – I appreciate the info you forward on WLF.com and elsewhere.
EMS care on wildfires has been a concern of mine for a number of years,
as I’m an EMTP and MEDL and have noted as many others have that EMS has
been haphazard at best in many areas (order some EMTPs or EMTs and
problem is solved, right???)
I had a quick question, you’ve posted several CE articles and noted that
a person can log them and get CE credit for them. I know here in KS, for
state credit it has to be a pre-approved CE program with an instructor,
or an online class with CECBEMS approval. Are you aware if there’s a
mechanism for NREMT credit for articles such as these, or is it just a
regional thing some states do? My understanding was that NREMT required
either CECBEMS or state approval to get credit, but if I’m missing
something, I’d sure love to get credit for the stuff I’m going to read
Thanks, and keep advocating for good EMS on fires!
Great news on KRS Evans car!
Today was a great day. We were able to give
Krs Evans his new car. We were able to purchase a 2010 Honda
Civic Coup LX.
The car was in excellent shape (looked brand new) with a 7 year 100,000 mile
was a “Honda Certified “used car so we can be assured Krs
will get many worry free years out of this car. In
addition had some money
left over to pay his insurance for some time to come.
I must say this was one of the most fulfilling things I have been a part of.
The fire community is a very generous
group of professionals and to see us
take care of one of our own is incredible. I can truly never express to all
those who have helped how much this has meant to me. I just wish you all
could have been there when Krs
received his car.
I hope this is a start of more good things for other survivors. In the years
to come I want to continue to help other
survivors and continue to remember
there are many that still need their fire community.
Thank you all very much.
Jody Prummer/Union IHC
Photos of Krs' car. and Krs and Jody with the car. Nice! Thanks Jody,
hotshots and rest of the Fire community! Ab.
1 Honda Civic coup thumbnail
2 car thumbnail
3 car thumbnail
4 krs and jody with car
5 krs and jody with car
6 krs and hotshots with car (hotshots, I presume)
7 krs in car
8 krs in car
9 krs and jody in car, smiles
10 krs in car, nice fit
11 close the door and ride!
Need JHA (Job Hazard Analysis)
We built an obstacle course at our station
and we’re trying to track down an appropriate JHA that includes
climbing a rope and cargo net; everything else is covered in the physical
Pleasant Valley IHC change of duty Station
Ab- Please post.
For any individuals wishing to apply to the Pleasant Valley IHC for the 2013
fire season, please note that our
duty station has been changed. The crew is now quartered on the Mesa Ranger
District of the Tonto NF.
Applicants will need to select “MESA, AZ” as a duty station to be
considered. The crew’s new base is at the
Goldfield Ranch work center on the Salt River.
cervical spine immobilization
In continuing the tradition of finding Emergency Medical Service articles
that relate to what we do and the
care we provide for our fellow firefighters as well as the public at times,
I have found an article that
discusses the need for cervical spine immobilization.
As supervisors and others, please feel free to distribute this article to
EMRs, EMTs, and Paramedics or
other Emergency Medical Providers (OEC, WFR) within your crew wither they
are on still or have taken
a winter down for R&R so that they may log it as Continued Education under
the "Self-Study" category
of Trauma. Also, please feel free to send to others as you see fit.
www.emsworld.com; Why we need to think C-spine Imobilization
Please note that this is not a change in Scope of Practice or Standard Care
Guidelines, but simply an
informational learning tool.
Until next time.
Thanks, Bill. Ab.
We have two wildland firefighters for the high school guy to interview.
Good luck with your assignment and in choosing your career.
I got this request from a high schooler. Anyone willing to talk with him?
My name is <snipped guy's name>. I am doing a project in my high school
english class and am wondering if you had any
way you could contact me directly with a wildland firefighter. For our
project, i have to interview a person who is doing the
career that i would like to go into after college. It would be appreciated
if you could help another firefighter out. If you have
any luck please contact me at this email address.
Couple Drowns Trying To Save Family Dog, Teenage Son Missing; dad was fire
ecologist on the Six Rivers NF
We had 3 deaths on the north coast
yesterday. A family of 4 and their dog were on the beach at Big Lagoon.
Three of the 4 and the dog were swept out by a large "sneaker wave". The
only survivor is the 16yr old daughter who was calling 911. Our
daughter-in-law had the son in her high school class. Great kid. I just
heard that the dad was the fire ecologist on the Six Rivers NF. Tragedy!
This is hard for me. It's so easy to forget the power of our rivers and
ocean and the unexpected very large waves we get in the winter. When I
taught in NR at HSU I warned my classes every new session about our ocean
and the killer whirlpools of our rivers, even the ones that seem placid.
Seems we always had someone washed off the Humboldt Bay jetty or into the
ocean with broken legs or worse.
Please keep well back from the water during the winter if you visit us.
Please be very careful if you swim in our rivers (Klamath, Trinity, Smith,
Eel, Mad, etc) on R&R on fire assignments in the summers. It's absolutely
tragic to lose those we love this way!
Anthony Escobar's Retirement Party Flyer - Saturday, January 12, 2013
Richard Rockwell Millar has passed on...
Richard ("Dick") Millar, born on
June 27, 1923 in San Diego to William Syril and Opal Kemp Millar, died on
November 17, 2012 at his home in Alameda surrounded by his family and his
beloved dog Molly. Richard grew up in Palo Alto, graduating from Palo Alto
High in 1941. He attended San Mateo City College working summers for the US
Forest Service until 1943 when he joined the Navy and served in the war's
Pacific Theater on the destroyer USS Ault as a Pharmacist's Mate First
Class. In 1946, after the war he returned to San Mateo City College where he
met Norma Jane Nettle of San Mateo. They were married in 1947 and moved to
Ogden Utah where Richard earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Forest
Management from the Agricultural College at Utah State in 1949.
By 1952 Richard (Dick as he was known to his colleagues) was working
full-time with the US Forest Service, where he worked for 34 years before
retiring. He worked on the Plumas, Klamath, Modoc, Sequoia, Los Padres, and
Mendicino National Forests in California in positions that included District
Ranger, Fire Management Officer and Forest Supervisor. After a four year
stint in the national office, Richard's final position was back in San
Francisco where he served as Assistant Regional Forester in charge of Fire
and Aviation Management for the Pacific Southwest region of the US Forest
Service; virtually the same position now held by his youngest son Joseph.
In almost 65 years of marriage, Richard and Norma built a strong
partnership, raised six children and enjoyed eleven grand-children and one
great grand child. Richard was a handsome, athletic, fun-loving,
hardworking, generous, and kind man who loved nature, building and planting
things; and golf and swimming. Together with Norma, he nurtured a family
impelled by a strong work ethic and personal integrity, passion for physical
activity, and diverse interests and beliefs. Being a husband to Norma, a
father, a grand-father, a great grandfather, a companion to his beagle
Molly, and a San Francisco Giants fan were his greatest joys in life. In
addition to the national forests they lived in early on, Richard and Norma
lived in Santa Barbara, Willows, Arlington, Va, and Alameda where they had
lived since 1972. They spent a year in Seoul, Korea in 1983-4 during
Richard's stint with the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization.
They also traveled to Australia, New Zealand, China, Mexico, and Europe and
around the U.S. But their most important travels were on Interstate 5
between Los Angeles and Seattle to visit children and grandchildren.
Richard suffered from Parkinson's disease and degenerative disk disease.
At the age of 89 he succumbed peacefully following a serious stroke. The
family thanks Hospice and his caregivers of several years for their
compassionate care during his illness. He is survived by his six children
and their spouses and partners, Linda (Ed) Cavaille; Susan Millar (Jim Loy);
Norman Millar (Tam Tran); Mitchell (Sharon) Millar; Joseph (Gina) Millar and
Leslie (Frank) Harris, his eleven grandchildren, one great grandchild, his
brother James Millar and his many nieces and nephews. A celebration of his
life is planned for early February, following the one year anniversary of
the loss of his beloved wife Norma.
On this day of Thanksgiving, his family and friends are blessed and
grateful to have been part of his beautiful and productive life. He will be
Published in San Francisco Chronicle on November 22, 2012
Our great condolences to Joe, the rest of Dick's family, friends and
co-workers of yester-year. Ab.
2013 FLA guide (FLA = Facilitated Learning Analysis)
Making the rounds...
2013 FLA guide - sharpening the saw
As you may recall, every year over the holidays the FLA guide is revised,
adjusted tweaked and updated based
upon actual user feedback and experiences.
- It’s that time of year again.
We have some excellent feedback on the 2012 version of the guide! It was
used frequently, all across the country,
on incidents as diverse as: fire entrapments, deployments, burn overs, a
campground flood event, a retardant
misapplication, fatalities, vehicle roll-overs, aviation mishaps, and even
to learn the effect of the safety journey!
Please send me your revision/improvement suggestions by December 14th.
If you’ve already sent me your comments or your AARs - you don’t need to
You are on this mailing list because you’ve either been to the FLA training,
or you’ve been a user, or a victim, or
you’ve provided feedback in the past, or I just know you want to know what’s
going on with the guide revision
Here’s the link to the 2012 version; If you want to print it out and send me
hand written comments on certain
pages, that’s fine too.
Firefighter Safety Program Manager
U.S. Forest Service
sholdsambeck@ nospam fs.fed etc
In this giving thanks season, I give thanks to all of you who work for
firefighter Just Culture and to make sure that lessons can be learned in a
non-judgmental way when things go wrong. Thanks, Steve, and all of you
across agencies, for the work you do! Ab.
Kiwanis Club’s “Outstanding Firefighter of the Year”
Los Padres NF Engine
Captain Ryan Bridgen was recently honored as the Ventura County (Calif.)
“Outstanding Firefighter of the Year” for 2012. This recognition comes as
Bridgen returned to work after more
than a year of rehabilitation following a September 2011 lightning strike
that left him and four of his colleagues
Read the whole story on the R5 website
Great news! Ab.
Original News Story about the accident:
Angeles National Forest Headquarters Dedication:
Making the rounds, with
the comment: "BEAUTIFUL – Angeles NF new SO!" Ab.
Dear Honored Guests, Friends, Partners, Co-workers and Retirees,
Angeles National Forest Supervisor, Thomas A. Contreras would like to invite
you to join us for the Dedication of the
new Angeles National Forest Headquarters Building on December 11, 2012, in
Arcadia, California. Please see the
attached invitation and feel free to share it with others that my be
interested in attending. We appreciate your support
and look forward to seeing you at the event.
Public Affairs Officer
Angeles National Forest
Lightning Victim & OWCP
I experienced similar problems with OWCP when I was seriously injured on a
jump about 20 years ago. Despite the facts that I went to the hospital on
the same day I was injured, and that 4 different physicians all said that my
injury was clearly an on-the-job injury, OWCP initially denied my claim, and
denied it again after I went before a panel of OWCP physicians. The Forest
Service HR person who was assigned to my case was rude, slow to respond, not
very competent, and largely unhelpful. Same goes for the OWCP claims
examiner who was assigned to my case. It took me over 3 years of struggling
with collection notices for medical bills, dealing with constant pain, going
to physical rehab, being examined by OWCP physicians, writing letters to my
Forest Supervisor, sending documents to various people, etc before my claim
was finally accepted. Overall, dealing with my injury and the aftermath was
one of the worst and most demeaning experiences of my entire life.
What finally made the difference for me was writing my congressman to ask
for help. I didn't know it at the time, but all senators and congresspersons
have staffpersons whose main responsibility is dealing with OWCP claims and
helping injured federal employees cut through bureaucratic red tape. The
congressional staffperson who helped me was courteous, sympathetic, and
effective. Within 2 weeks after my congressman's staffer contacted OWCP, my
claim was finally accepted.
If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't waste my time trying to get my
claim accepted by working through agency and OWCP representatives. I would
write my congressional representative or senator, explain my situation, and
provide them with all the documentation I had.
Good luck to you. If you want additional advice or want to visit about this,
Ab knows how to contact me.
Here's the hotlist thread on " crashed airtanker as
art". Thanks to The Brush Slasher for finding it. I merged your new
question in with the old thread. Ab.
Airtanker as "Art" Incredibly Insensitive
Philadelphia old crashed CDF tanker plane sculpture
So I'm wondering if anyone out there knows about the old CDF tanker plane
that is being used in Philadelphia as art/ greenhouse? Came back to run a
race. When I walked out of the civic center and looked across the street I
see what looked like a crashed tanker plane. My wife thought I was nuts, but
I told her the red markings were from a tanker plane. I walked across the
street and I'll be dammed if it didn't have CDF the wing and pink dried
retatdant on the tail rudder. I'll send pics and with tail # when I get back
to my own computer. Truth is I was a little taken back. Not sure if it was
in bad taste, or in honor. Anyhow just curious.
There was discussion of that when the "sculpture" first went up. Don't
remember now when that was. I'll post this on the hotlist. Someone will
As many may wonder and contemplate what, how and why this
happen, we can only hope that the
agency will look at their own policy and contemplate this:
2012 Red Book
Chapter 5 - USDA Forest Service and Aviation Program Organization and
Page 2 - Leadership and Accountability
Line 17 - #10 "The hall marks of Forest Service leadership are action,
attitude, and accountability "
Lightning Victim & OWCP
Response to JW, Strangel, SG:
I have to respond to your message cautiously with only the information you
have given. Without knowing the history of the case it is hard to know what
decisions were made and if any help can be provided at this point. While I
sympathize with anyone in this predicament, I cannot find fault in this case
without the facts.
First of all ASC or any other employer does not have the authority to
approve or deny Workers’ Compensation claims. We can only approve or deny
the initial authorization for medical treatment based on the criteria for
authorization under the Federal Employee’s Compensation Act (FECA). Agency
personnel cannot deny an employee filing a Workers’ Comp claim under threat
of fines and/or imprisonment under the law. Employee often confuse this
issue and believe that we have the power to make decisions that we do not.
If the claim was denied by the Department of Labor (DOL), who administers
OWCP, there could be many reasons for that. There has to be an injury or
illness resulting from the lightning strike. This condition must be
diagnosed by a medical provider who also has sole responsibility for
relating the cause of the condition to the work related incident (lightning
strike). If the physician does not relate the condition to the lightning
strike, a letter will be sent to the claimant or medical provider asking for
the missing information. If the information is not provided by the employee
or the physician in the timeframe allowed by DOL (usually 30 days) the claim
will be denied. The reason for the denial would have been explained in a
letter sent to the claimant by DOL.
When a claim is denied by DOL, the letter sent to the claimant contains
options for requesting a reconsideration or appealing the decision if the
employee wishes to do so. These options also have timeframes that have to be
adhered to. An employee has appeal rights for most decisions DOL renders and
they are always attached to the decision letter with the timeframes so the
appeal process can go on indefinitely. But not responding within the
allotted timeframe could end the employee’s entitlement to any further
If the injured worker is not getting the assistance they need from their
case manager, the WC supervisors and program manager names are on the ASC
Workers’ Comp website so they can be contacted.
Ab can also forward any request for assistance from the injured worker to
me. Due to the Privacy Act and HIPPA regulations we are unable to
communicate with anyone else about this case without written permission from
I hope this information helps.
Thanks Ab, for the chance to respond.
Thanks, WC Advocate. Ab.
JW, Lightning victim & OWCP
I too was struck, but my claim was approved (Noon
fire 2004, Safford AZ). There were quite a few follow ups
for me because of the damage it did to my body. It might be a bit of work,
but due to the injury and the extent, it
can be re-opened for further treatment. That is what I did. One bummer was
that my OWCP claim started
immediately, so as I laid up in the hospital ICU, I wasn't getting paid
because it was my day off. Weak!
As for your friend, if mine was approved why wouldn't hers be? Hit on the
hill while on a fire! Lightning is lightning
and she was struck while performing her job! I will never forget my
experience, I am willing to help in any way.
Pass it on Ab,
JW, Lightning strike victim & OWCP
First of all ASC can not deny an injury claim.
I had a case a few years back where someone at ASC had denied a
claim and when I told the claims examiner from DOL about it, they were
livid. They said it's against federal law.
Get a hold of DOL.
NFFE is trying to start a team of SME to help work on these problems at ASC,
but this is just a small part of the
many problems with federal OWCP. It's a good start to work on getting the
people that are supposed to be our
advocates to be less adversarial. The new R5 NFFE RVP sent out a call for
examples of such cases and only
two came in, this being one of them. We asked for more details and haven't
heard anything back. We can't work
magic, but maybe we can help.
R1 has a couple of SME on OWCP that are willing to help, Bob Beckley and Ron
Angel, but they can't do it
unless you are willing to help yourself and answer their questions. They
both have other jobs and dealing with
OWCP is very time consuming and frustrating. Start by keeping good notes
with names and times.
Human error/weather caused accident
This being our third post, and still
no official IWP, FLA, 24 hour report, not even a Safe Com from the
BLM roll overs, Firefighters riding in buckets and reports follow
immediately. An Air Tanker accident involving 4 fatalities
and not one word months later. Once again, tragic on more than one front.
Lightning Victim Needs Help -- OWCP
Hello. In my fire assignment travels this
summer, I befriended an employee who needs help. She was hit by lightning
while in the line of duty; however, ASC has refused to approve her OWCP
claim. This incident has forever impacted
this employee's life... physically, emotionally, personally, and
What are her options now? She needs some real help! Can you post this?
Thank you, in advance, for your assistance.
Readers, any ideas, advice or contacts? JW, please stay tuned in to
her. There's a new little spiral flip safety guide that someone showed me
called US Forest Service New Employee Safety Guide, Region 5. Employee
safety is very important. See if you can find the little guide and get some
ideas. There are guidelines in it for dealing with many things, from poison
oak to personal safety and accident reporting. Supervisors are
the first and best resource. Forest Safety Officers can also help.
Help her lay out a plan of action. If she is unable to document the steps
she has taken in trying to work through the process of getting help, please
help her do so and begin to build her case. Thank you for speaking up on her
Readers, any ideas? Who can get through to ASC to get her help?
Can someone please share experiences with lightning strike? Depending
on the type of strike, people can appear and sound fairly normal but feel
befuddled, "not all there", irritable, and be unable to sleep normally. If a
serious strike, they can have cardiac and respiratory effects and
neurological injury. Ab.
Signs and Symptoms of lightning injuries:
Not a flattering article:
Government documents show why Rincon fire crew was sidelined
Fire crew members say drug and alcohol abuse, fighting, and even murder
threats were just some
of the reasons a Forest Service fire crew was grounded over the summer...
More at the link above...
Richard Stone LODD 1967
I stumbled on your website when
researching someone in the USFS. I saw the name, Richard Stone, and it
sounded very familiar. I called my husband and asked, "who was that guy
killed in the hotshot truck accident you were in?" Of course - it was
Richard Stone. My husband is Ray Valenzuela (or "Ray Val" as he was known
for years) - former Del Rosa Hotshot. He spent his career in fire on the
San Bernardino (Cajon, Arrowhead,then San Jacinto as Keenwild Helitack
foreman) before working for the State and is now retired.
He was one of the worst injured in the accident but has quite the memory
of the situation. The one thing he does NOT remember though, was where
it happened exactly, as he was in the back. The driver of the truck that
rolled was Sterling Walker (now deceased) and the Foreman was Rod Wrench,
who retired as the FMO of the SanJacinto District of the BDF when I was
there in the 90's.
I showed him the maps and other postings from your site and he only knows
that he was taken to the hospital in Palmdale (not LA) which indicated that
it was closer. Ray also described the conditions - the road had been opened
up during the night by dozers or a grader. The road actually gave way and
the truck slid sideways and then rolled. Ray's cousin Rudy happened to
be in the other hotshot vehicle - which stopped after the accident and
they helped the others. Ray said that Richard was pinned between the truck
and a tree. Remember that at this time, the hotshot trucks were stakeside
types with canvas covers over the back. Ray said that the bus that he was
in was a wider wheelbase and that may have been why it slid and not the
So, I'm sorry I don't have an answer to exactly where it happened but I
thought it was interesting
that folks are trying to piece info together on Mr. Stone. Good Luck!
Kathy Val (formerly of the San Jacinto RD, BDF)
24 hour report for the BLM New Mexico Highway 68 vehicle rollover:
24hr Report on NM Highway 68 Motor Vehicle Accident
text on the
Human error, weather caused fatal South Dakota air tanker crash: MAFFS 7
A combination of human error and a severe "microburst" during a
thunderstorm caused a military air tanker
to crash while fighting a South
Dakota wildfire in July, killing four airmen, according to an accident
released on Wednesday.
The U.S. Air Force C-130 Hercules crashed on July 1 while battling a blaze
near Edgemont, South Dakota,
killing four North Carolina Air National Guard
airmen. Two others were seriously injured.
An Air Force Air Mobility Command accident investigation report released on
Wednesday found that an
"inadequate assessment" by the cockpit crew of
"operational conditions resulted in the aircraft flying into a
and impacting the ground."
The report describes a microburst as a severe, localized wind gust, blasting
down from a thunderstorm, typically
covering an area less than 2.5 miles in
diameter and lasting less than 5 minutes.
Fair use disclaimer
Lt. Col. Paul Mikeal, age 42, of Mooresville, NC; Lt. Colonel in
the N.C. Air National Guard & Evaluator Pilot
Maj. Joseph M. McCormick, age 36, of Belmont, NC; Major/Instructor
Maj. Ryan S. David, age 35, of Boone NC, Major/Navigator
Senior Master Sgt. Robert Cannon, age 50, of Charlotte, NC; Senior
Master Sergeant/Flight Engineer
New Mexico - At least 8 injured in BLM
At least eight people have been reported injured in the wake of a Bureau of
Land Management truck rollover just north of the Horseshoe on State Road 68.
Scanner traffic indicated that EMTs transported one man to Holy Cross
Hospital to meet a medical helicopter for “serious head, neck and chest
injuries.” Another person was transported to the hospital with “severe
abdomen injuries” and another was transported for a head injury. Four other
people were also taken to the hospital and classified on the scanner as
Our thoughts and prayers are with the injured, their families and
their fire families. Ab.
Bart Singley didn't die of natural causes, but took his own life. Sad and
Very sad. Sad loss of a good man. Condolences.
Readers, this is the time of year when depression following a very
busy fire season can hit hard. Please track your own feelings and be aware
of friends and what they might be going through. I'm reposting a message
about the Life Challenge Program below. Help is out there. Ab.
The WFF Life Challenge Program gives their sincere condolences to the
friends, family and loved ones of those wildland firefighters who have
chosen suicide. We are sadden by the wildland firefighters who have
committed suicide last month and throughout the years past.
Each day wildland firefighters face new and old challenges that test the
physiology of the body which can alter the psychology of the mind. It is
okay to admit if you are not feeling right or need help - it is okay to ask
for help, and as leaders, we should embrace open dialogue with our employees
who are dealing with these life challenges. The mind is a very powerful
machine and, if not taken care of, can lead one down the path of the
unknown, a lonely path that one can only imagine, leaving others to
speculate and doubt the actions of the unknown.
Life Challenge Program has recently updated their website with
helpful information for those wildland firefighters who may be dealing with
the demons of life, or for those who have lost a loved one to the unknown.
Please visit our site, ask for help and/or help those who are struggling. We
all have demons, yet we may not admit that we are struggling as this can be
seen as a sign of weakness. It is not a weakness but a sign of
self-leadership to understand and know yourself and the challenges you face,
day in and day out, now, the past and in the future. For only you know the
challenges you face.
Life is precious. One cannot get yesterday back, so reach out and help
yourself or help other wildland firefighters in need.
Rest in Peace those forever gone and God Bless the Survivors.
Keep On Keeping On.
Bartley "Bart" Singley has passed on:
Does someone know if Bart died of
natural causes? I saw his obit in the paper.
I worked with him in Oklahoma on fires in 1996. He was a 25 year fire vet.
Sad to hear of his death.
William Bartley Singley obituary
Posted: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 2:21 pm
William Bartley Singley, known as “Bart” to family and friends, passed
away in Joseph, Ore., on Oct. 11,
at the age of 47.
He was born July 14, 1965, in Salida. Singley graduated from Lake County
High School in Leadville in
1983 and attended Wenatchee Valley College. He was an avid outdoorsman.
He was said to love skiing,
hiking, mountain-bike riding, golfing, camping, and running.
For the past 25 years, Singley was employed in Virginia, Washington, New
Mexico, and Oregon with
the U.S. Forest Service as a firefighter in various capacities. He was
said to be extremely dedicated and
passionate about his profession. (More at the link, plus his photo.)
Bart was ATGS Trainee on the
NAZ Type 2 team. Ab.
From Anthony Powers:
I have created a blog page to help to get the word
out about our event. Please share this with your friends and the fire
community to help get this out!!
Blog: DALTON IHC 60 YEARS OF TRADITION
Post: DALTON IHC 60 YEAR REUNION
IHC 60 Year Reunion at the Dalton HS website
Check it out! Sign up for the reunion in Glendora CA on April 6, 2013.
Thanks to the many Veterans for your service. Ab.
2013 FY Budget Heaven!!!! Sandy here we come!!!
The new deadline was half an hour ago, but DOI (BLM, NPS, etc) folks
might check in with their superiors. Ab.
Call for FEMA
assistance--Your Response needed by 1:30 East Coast Time
Making the rounds...
The following FEMA Tasker for ESF -3 below is provided for your
situational awareness and/or action:
"The Federal Emergency Management Agency is requesting the Department of the
Interior’s assistance in recruiting up to 1,000 personnel to support a
residential damage assessment mission under Emergency Support Function – 3 (ESF
-3, Public Works and Engineering) in support of the Hurricane Sandy recovery
FEMA is looking for government employees in pay grades GS-7, GS-9, and
possibly GS-11, to function as non-technical damage assessors for
residential housing. This work will expedite the delivery of FEMA assistance
to families whose homes have been damaged or destroyed in the storm. The
mission should begin late next week, with personnel beginning assessments in
New York, by November 16 for a 15 day deployment. FEMA will provide all
necessary training prior to deployment.
All Emergency Management Coordinators are requested to determine how many
personnel, as described above, your office or bureau could provide in
support of this mission. Departmental leadership requests your proactive
participation in this mission. Please provide the number of available
persons who could deploy for this mission to the Interior Operations Center
(IOC) at DOI_Watch_Office@ nospam ios.doi.gov not later than 2 p.m. on
Friday, November 9. Bureau of Reclamation will manage this mission as DOI
Principal Planner for ESF-3."
EM Coordinators and Alternates
Bryan K. Green
Interior Operations Center
U.S. Department of the Interior
Office of Emergency Management
Some info on applying for Forest Service jobs.
YouTube video for Fire Jobs.
www.youtube.com (leave a comment on
why you like to FF please)
FAQ's for the new FS /USAJobs application process.
Outreach with info for applying for Fire jobs in R3.
And There I Was
Mellie, Gerald and Rick -
Thanks for the responses and information on Mill Creek and the Station
Fire. I thought that might be
the date, but was never really sure.
Re Mill Creek Station from Gerald and Rick:
They did burn the same day
approximately 8 hours apart....August 30th. The residence at Monte Cristo
burned that day earlier. I was at Mill Creek about 3 to 4 hours before it
After the election dust settles...what now?
With the dust settling over some of the most expensive, ($ 6 BILLION)
contentious campaigns in recent memory, what does it mean for our Nations'
federal wildland firefighters?
Those of you in California truly had a congressional election tantamount to
throwing a deck of cards up in the air. While many incumbents retained their
seats, redistricting led to a number of retirements by those who have
previously supported federal wildland firefighter legislative proposals.
Several long-time supporters on both sides of the aisle lost their seats.
Additionally, there are a number of new districts and thus new rookie
members of Congress within the largest congressional delegation in
While the Administration remained Democratic, historically, many cabinet
level positions change hands during the 2nd term of a President. While
Democrats slightly increased their majority in the Senate, Republicans still
maintained a strong hold on the House of Representatives. Will this lead to
the maintaining of the status quo or will the elections send a signal to
both sides of the aisle that the era of political extremes, regardless of
what side you're on, must end?
Our focus at the FWFSA will be to immediately attempt to educate the rookies
in Washington (predicated on committee assignments) by using our existing
relationships on the Hill and to continue to develop both legislative &
administrative strategies designed to focus on the benefit to taxpayers.
Much of what will transpire during the "lame duck" session of Congress when
it returns next week will have to do with fiscal issues. Thus it is
imperative that we get the message across that 1) federal wildland
firefighters provide the best "bang for the buck" to our taxpayers and 2)
fundamental organizational changes must be made to create a more efficient
and fiscally effective federal wildfire response.
Now, more than ever, our firefighters will have to invest in their own
future by being willing to let their voices be heard by those both new to
Washington and those who may now have gotten the clear message that extreme
partisan politics produces nothing and that they will now need to look
inward ( those on the Right looking towards the left and those on the Left
looking towards the right) to find solutions.
It remains to be seen whether there will be leadership changes at OPM, the
USDA/Forest Service or the Dept. of Interior. Until then we will continue to
work with those in place who now have a clear understanding of the issues
and who have made commitments to pursue remedies, both legislatively or
administratively. Voting is a great way to have your voice heard. Hopefully
elected officials have now heard those voices and we can fine-tune the
message and focus those voices on ensuring that the attacks on the federal
workforce come to an end and an understanding as to the benefits to this
Nation of its federal workforce resonates throughout Washington.
There's a reference to the Mill Creek Station burning in the Hotlist. It was
prior to 9/28/09.
Rick might know the exact date or be able to find it if he's reading.
From that date, you might look forward through the
archived 209s, paying special attention to the Remarks
and Values at Risk sections.
I don't know socal or the ANF, but if you do, there might be other clues
to where the fire was burning that
can narrow your search.
also Theysaid: September, 2009 archives
Does anyone know the date that Mill Creek Summit Station was destroyed in
the 2009 Station Fire?
Here is a wildland fire news piece from NY about Hurricane Sandy.
What this article fails to mention is that Mr. Fonda continued with his
duties in spite of that fact that his home
was threatened by Sandy and ended up with major flooding from the storm
Vaya con Dios!
Thanks, Tim. Ab.
President Obama has won re-election.
Thanks for your wonderful response to the question on why we don't raise
more money to help others. You hit the nail on the head. It takes all of our
community to get such a huge undertaking off the ground. It may just take
one to start but needs all of us to see it work.
Vicki Minor (who is an incredible person with a big heart) and myself have
been talking about just that thing. I agree there is a big need for us
firefighters to help our own. I hope someday we have such an organization to
help extend a hand to those firefighters we tend to forget about (the
If you think it is easy to run a foundation just spend some time with Vicki.
I would not want to see any less given to the
WFF to start
another foundation. What the WFF does for us is nothing short of
Why did we want to do this for Krs?
- I knew him and his story well.
- Krs has a lot of drive to better himself so he doesn't have to
depend on OWCP.
- Krs has gone through things I couldn't possible imagine and shares
his experience with his firefighting community, only asking to cover
- Krs spent time back in Kentucky after the accident to help put a
face with the price of arson fires.
- Krs has a need but wouldn't ask.
- There is one big personal reason, Krs's story could have been one of
my crewmember's story.
Anyone who has ideas or wants to help see what more we can do, feel free
to give me a call. I feel this is the starting point; let's see where we can
take this. It has been an incredible experience to see what a great
community we have. Once again thanks to you all.
The Abs at wlf.com
Fundraising for Injured Firefighters with disabilities
Not to be offensive but when do we help other victims from the OWCP morass?
Some keep working and get no recognition for their injuries.
Probably because their disabilities are “invisible……?”
Why not raise as much as we can for every wildland firefighter that ever has
Not meant to be offensive
Hi there. I removed the bold from your post. I understand you're
emphatic, and maybe even angry, on this issue.
Set up that organization and we at wlf.com will support it, as we
support other efforts and organizations that benefit or create a safety net
for wildland firefighters. If you begin an organization, others may join
We do our share, but we can't do it all. We at wlfcom have
- helped individuals get legal help with their OWCP claim(s) and
mitigating other legal unfairness;
- have helped raise money for wildland firefighters with brain and
as well as supporting
Much appreciation for those organizations!
What is great about the WFF is that someone (Vicki Minor) stepped up
into leadership in the 1990s, got others on board, and created our safety
net for families of the fallen. Same with the Life Challenge Program
(initiated by Shawna Legarza and affiliated with the WFF). In a limited
fashion the WFF does help other wildland firefighters who are injured, for
example most recently a burn victim and his family.
Challenge to you: Create the (non-profit) organization that
focuses on helping wildland firefighters who are victims of the OWCP morass.
It would be a worthy organization! People are injured every season and often
we never hear of them again. They give their youth, their physical
well-being, their psychological well-being and more.
As a result of your email, I'm sending an additional donation for KRS'
Readers, please give!
3502 Highway 30
La Grande, OR 97850
Again, many thanks to Jody Prummer and the Union Hotshots for walking
the walk to help KRS!!! Ab.
Hoist Crew Recognized:
Helicopter crew awarded for help with wildfires and fast response
KEENE -- As wild forest fires raged around them, the crew from the Kern
County Fire Department's Helicopter 407 lifted injured firefighters to
safety and medical help in less than an hour, a feat that earned them an
honor from the U.S. Forest Service.
At a ceremony Monday at the Keene Helibase, the Forest Service awarded the
fire department for its aid during two August wildfires in Northern
California. The helicopter crew performed three separate rescues, each in
less than an hour, a time the Forest Service said is unprecedented. (More at
Photos from Space Shuttle Recovery days?
i was wondering if anyone has
pics of the camp of hemphill texas
during the space shuttle recovery i was there and just wanted some
pics to share with my kids.
Fire People (especially seasonals) USFS,
I have a few question regarding USAJobs.
1.) where are all the seasonal GS-4 and GS-5 positions (announcement
numbers?)??? I can
only find a seasonal GS-3 listed as "Forestry Aid (Fire)", but I cannot find
ANY seasonal fire
jobs at the 4 or 5 level.
2.) how does USA jobs work? do you apply to jobs listed as "Forestry
and that will cover you for all module types (helitack, handcrew,
3.) or do you have to apply to specific modules like those listed as
"Forestry Tech (helitack)
or Forestry Tech (engine operator)??? If this is the case then where are all
jobs listed cause all I have been able to find are PERM jobs which tell me I
for, due to Time and Grade rules.
Any help with this new system would be immensely appreciated. At least I
knew how to use
AVUE----for whatever its worth.
Seasonal looking to apply for my job again.
Richard Stone LODD 1967
I made it down to the cross on ANF road 4N18 and the name on the cross was not that of Richard Stone.
Although the road is similar in appearance, this site was extremely
steep and narrow.
I believe exfed was right that the incident occurred on ANF 3N90 after
reviewing the picture.
There are trees in the picture which makes it more likely in that area.
I am obligated to find the spot.
retired BDF Born Green
Take a look at the second topo map (red line) in the Always Remember thread, link above. Ab.
Devore Fire on the BDF, just south of the Glen Helen Road:
Krs Evans Fundraiser:
I thought I had a car for a great deal but when I had Krs sit in the car, it
wouldn’t work. I have narrowed the car that fits Krs
down to a Honda Civic Coup. This is one of the few cars that Krs can get
himself and his chair into unassisted. The Civic
has good ratings, gets good gas millage, and is reliable. However, they cost
a bit more than I had anticipated. I am actively
looking for a dealership in the Oregon, Boise, and SE Washington area to
assist our efforts.
I am sure people are tired of me asking for money but our goal has not
been reached yet.
Also if anyone has any car dealership contacts, that may help.
Once again thanks to all who have given.
I included a PDF of the flyer. KRS
Evans Fundraiser This one has two pages.
Thanks, Jody. Readers, please give. Ab.
A FLA is underway for the Serious Rappel Accident.
Please contribute to KRS's second-hand vehicle that is being adapted for his
I sent in my contribution.
Large or small, the donations will be put to good use.
I made my check payable to
Union Hotshots and sent it to
3502 Hwy 30
La Grande OR 97850
More money is needed to complete the project. It would be great to cover
KRS's insurance as well as the car. With an adapted vehicle KRS can continue
to do his good work telling his story and sharing his insights with the
firefighting community. He'll also be able to get to the grocery store, the
doctor's office and get to the University to finish his degree. You can't
keep a GOOD MAN down. Having friends and fire family help. It's called
Social Capital. We all need that at some time or other.
Many THANKS to Jody Prummer and the Shots for taking this on. It's the
Proud Legacy of that Union Hotshot crew to really help their brothers
facing what seem to be insurmountable physical and medical challenges as a
result of job-related injury. Great Leadership! Great values!
If you're not a firefighter, just a lurker or a member of the public,
please shoot off a check in support of wildland firefighters everywhere.
It's not tax deductable, but it will make you FEEL GOOD!
I THANK YOU FOR ANY CONTRIBUTION!
Serious Rappel Accident (non-helicopter related):
It was a State of Oregon
Milepost 66 fire; members of a FS engine were rappelling. One crewman was
struck by a rock in the face. He has impaired vision.
MTDC is not, and apparently will not, be involved.
Everyone connected with the accident has been instructed not to talk.
There have been no reports or FLA or OSHA investigation report released.
It's unknown what investigations are planned or underway.
Serious Rappel Accident (non-helicopter related):
Back in the swing of things after a warm detail in So. Cal. If anyone is
wondering, it’s still awfully dry down there.
I'm trying to dig up info on the rappelling situation that happened last
month or the month before, does anyone have any current
information on it?
From older posts it looks like there was an FLA posted, but I can’t find it.
I also can’t find any 24 hr or 72 hr -
or whatever the postings are
immediately after an accident. Does anyone know where I could find that?
Does anyone know the nature of the injuries? How many people? Why were they
doing it? I’m assuming they were doing some
sort of rescue.
Anyone have an update?
Original theysaid post:
Rappel 1 scroll up or use this link
Original Milepost 88 Hotlist threads:
Hotlist thread on the
Milepost 66 Fire for location.
Hotlist Question and Discussion thread for additional info and links to
articles with photos.
I saw the link to the e-Recruit how-to was sending folks to the
internal-only USFS site, so I thought I'd send
in the file itself. I haven't seen it on a public site yet... could be I'm
just not looking in the right spot.
How to Apply for a Job USA Jobs (633 K pdf)
Some excellent FLAs and investigations here for download at the
Halstead Fire Sepsis Case - Facilitated
Learning Analysis ... "If you’re sick, should you continue to go out on the
line?" (Nice tribute to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. Thanks Burk
for taking care of our folks!)
Holloway Fire Entrapment/Shelter Deployment -- Accident
Investigation Report ... "What should you do if you end up in a shelter
without your gloves on?"
Likely Fire Entrapment -- Accident Investigation Report ... "Is
“One Foot in the Black” really that simple?"
Diamond Fire Fatality Report ... "On July 23, 2011, Deon 'Dino'
Classay, Squad Leader on the Fort Apache Interagency Hotshot Crew (FAIHC),
was hiking out of the Diamond Fire when he separated from his crew,
collapsed, and subsequently died."
Flat Fire Entrapment FLA ... "Crew cohesion training at the
beginning of the season contributed to this event’s positive outcome (no
injuries and minor damage to Engine)."
and more! Very interesting. Ab.
Always Remember Dino Classay. Condolences to his family and friends. We
trust he will be honored on the National Firefighters Monument.
The plane looks beautiful. I would like to thank all the
pilots and crew that brought our loved ones home to us throughout
the years. You may not have heard it from the families often, but we deeply
appreciated everything you did for us.
Lately, we have been getting a lot of questions about applying
to e-Recruit. Here is a link to the ASC
website giving you step by step
directions on how to apply. It’s much easier to understand than Avue!
fsweb.asc.fs.fed.us: How to Apply for a Job.pdf
As some of you know Union Hotshots have been putting together a
fundraiser for Krs Evans so we can purchase a new vehicle. Krs needs his old
gas guzzling van replaced. I have found a vehicle and our local Ford
dealership is helping out with the cost and putting on the controls so he
can drive it. However we a still a bit shy on the total cost. If you haven’t
given, now is the time. If you have, I would like to say thanks. I will be
trying to purchase the vehicle next week. If we end up with any extra, I plan
on paying for the vehicle insurance.
Please see the attached flyer for the complete information.
Evans Fundraiser Flyer
Readers, please contribute! It could have been any one of us hit by
that snag in Kentucky. Krs needs to be able to get around. If you made
overtime this year, kick back some of it to this cause. Please. Ab.
Any idea what is going to happen to the DC-3 that brought home the Storm
King Mountain folks?
Today is the 46th anniversary of the Loop Fire, 1966, about 3:30.
Firefighters are pausing for a moment of memory.
Loop Fire 1966
There's a rededication of the El Cariso Hotshot "Loop Fire" Memorial
this Saturday, November 3, 2012
at El Cariso Regional Park
13100 Hubbard Street
Sylmar, CA 91342
If you live nearby and have time, please show up. There's also a
pre-event on Friday. Check the link to get the info. Ab.