DATE	SUBJECT          (Previous Archive: Jun-Dec'02) Return to FamilySaid Archives
8/31	First time poster here -- have appreciated the site for a long time -- finally felt the need to contribute. TazGirl -- You can find out about IHC crews in the Northern Rockies area here: http://www.umt.edu/globalfirenet/nrpage.htm It's a good list to start from, although I think maybe some of those links are out of date.  Fire dangers still remain extreme in my neck of the woods, been without rain 56 + days and counting -- hope everyone's SO stays safe. -aly Welcome Aly. I think most folks are away from their computers enjoying the holiday. May be just you and me and Robbie. Hoosier may already be getting ready for bed... Ab.
8/31	Ab, and J. Foster, thanks so much for the most recent wallpaper. I have it on my computer in the livingroom and have gotten a number of admiring comments. Robbie
8/31	Mellie and everyone I would love to have you for dinner some time. You and everyone on the page that has helped me get through this fire season (my first). That would be fun. All us fire spouses and SO's sitting around enjoying the night air (here in Hoosier country night air is only good between Oct-June--it's so hot) and what ever else we cook up! Ab, we can't say it enough we are so thankful for the board. My FF comes home Monday! I am so ready. He is ready too. They asked the crew he was on to stay but they said they wanted their families. Good thing because we are getting dry here and we really don't have many of our fire fighters here right now. Our dry season is Sept.-Nov. We've been lucky this year we've had a most wet spring and the last couple of days we've been catching up on our rain. The dry season has been pushed away a little. Wish I could blow the rain out west. Lurker, again kudos on the painting. You should start a business where fire spouses and SOs send pics of their FF and you paint them. Nemesis and others, fall is in the air. I had to rake the deck today. The storms brought down all kinds of sycamore leaves. Wait until my FF sees the lawn. Ugh! Well we are decorating the house for Daddy, baking a cake and making welcome home signs and then tomorrow we go pick him up at the airport! Everyone take care! Hoosier There is nothing better for the inside of a child than the outside of a house - unknown.... unless the humidity is 99.9%!
8/31	Nerd, Taz, Fire Momma, et al - thank you for your humorous posts during a stressful fire season. Many have provided retrospection thoughts and good western perspective advice to those new to dealing with the fire scene, especially those who lived the WF life during old coyote camp times with no hot meal/shower/clean sox/etc. and no such thing as a cell phone! The "hostage" of someone's "stuffy" reminded me of a co-workers missing fish - it sent a series of post cards, letters & pictures from many states as far away as 3,000 miles; one letter included a copy of it's travel expense claim (copies of all receipts & signed by the sup). Nerd, your 8/28 introduction to a Wildland Fire Fighter reminded me of an article that was posted on another wildland website a couple of yrs ago; it was titled, "So you want to be a Hot Shot" - hysterical! and very close to the real truth about picnicking in the woods. Addendum to the BBQ theory: never let a male IA WFF near your fireplace! Winter advice: do not ask a rappeller to clean the roof gutters, nor let a jumper trim any trees. If you want fresh ground broke for a spring garden, hand a pulaski/shovel to the groundpounder. Engine "slugs" can install a new sprinkler system (similar to a hose lay). Some structure FFs are better utilized restringing lawn chairs. Unfortunately dispatchers will tell you where to go. Fallers will be more than willing to bring home a new supply of firewood, if someone else will stack it. For sure someone has a fuzee if anyone needs grass or brush cleared, if not bet there is a drip torch in someone's pickuptruck. (there is a sign in front of house that reads "no heavy equipment"). gee, did I miss anyone? ALL IN FUN EVERYONE, ALL IN FUN! but, consider my advice before they pack their redbags and disappear next season. Fall is in the air here, but smokey. be safe everyone! Nemesis
8/30	This came a few days ago and got lost in the shuffle. Ab. Hello everyone... haven't been on in a couple days and there was so much to read today... Lurker ***** The painting is awesome!! I love it!! You are so talented, I wish I could do something like that but I am only capable of drawing stick figures!! LOL Have you done any other paintings or was this your first?? Fire Momma ***** I laughed so hard when you were talking about your daughter. I have a 3 year old and she is into boy toys, but also has here baby dolls and Barbie (gag)... She loves legos and anything that builds to which is good for her to do... Get the creative juices flowing. I laughed at the way your grandparents were... Too Funny!!! Bambi ***** My husband also doesn't work in the winter... He says nobody will hire them for the short time they are off. He does get unemployment after I ask if he has applied for it though... Someone else said the magic words though... SAVINGS ACCOUNT... we have started one so that when Christmas rolls around we aren't broke and so bills get paid... Also start buying gifts for family now... Sammi ***** I wish I could load up and go to the hot springs... It sounds wonderful and relaxing... Your comment at the gas station had me rolling in the floor... I have heard that remark made before about government FF and I just laugh... If people only knew the real way it is I don't think it would be so glamorous!! FireWife
8/29	Those are some great prankster stories. Hysterical... I should pull a good one on some of the roller derby girls. Sammi, what a nice surprise for you!!! There are a lot of things I would do in exchange for seeing my FF at my house waiting for me. Your son must really love you to ditch the girls to hang out w/ mom. That's pretty cool. Although no doubt he can brag to the girls about what a sweet son he is and score some points. Girls seem to dig that stuff. I think the reasoning goes..."if he's that good to his momma, then he must be good to his woman too." Somethin' like that... I am off for a fun filled weekend. I'm sure I will be exhausted when I come back to work on Tuesday. Going to the lake (wakeboarding hopefully), friend's b'day celebration, barbecues, art parties, etc. Wish I had my FF to be my date. Although you can bet he'd probably skip the art party. Catskilldog, I ran three days in a row this week! How 'bout you? My push ups are improving already. Oregonjewel, I meant to address your comment about being cautious and not giving up my dreams or life plans too much for a guy... I try to be pretty careful about that and maintain my independence and future course. I think we can make joint plans so that it suits my ambitions and his. I have been wanting to move out of state anyway and to the the west. And the place we are considering has a great school for me too. There was really only one other place I was looking at before. So this way, if things don't work out, I'm not somewhere I never would've gone in the first place you know? But I appreciate your advice and more is always appreciated...not always heeded but considered at least. :) You all take care and enjoy your weekend. I'm going home hopefully to find the pictures my FF sent me. Yay... TazGirl
8/29	Robbie… Gee, I think I might know some of the guys holding Sponge Bob…when I was in college, some FF who shall remain nameless slim-jimmed the door to my car and ‘kidnapped’ a stuffed horse that I’ve had forever. The first thing I heard about it was opening my mailbox and finding a Polaroid of my horse with a bandana over its eyes and it’s legs tied together, with the notation that I must follow all directions or I’d never see the horse ‘alive’ again. Directions that followed included instructions to dance naked in the fountain in the middle of campus at 1 am on a Saturday morning. Without getting into too much detail, let’s just say I got the horse back, I didn’t do any dancing in the fountain, naked or otherwise, and I made myself some great opportunities to get even…I had the privilege of arranging one of the gentlemen’s wife’s bachelorette party. Nerd on the Fireline
8/29	TazGirl and all, Sure, I'd be happy to schlep the drinks, even make em if you let me. Do come west to the dry heat, the TX humid heat is a "wet sponge bob" thing for sure. Got sponge bob on my mind, another toy I was just introduced to... and he's evidently a tv star also... The sponge bob saga: My sister has been in and out of Missoula. There's a fire prevention team working with all the communities being hit by the fires around there and also working with the hog heaven Harley Davidson celebration guys. Anyway, someone on this prevention team (they think) stole a mascot sponge bob belonging to one of the local fed firefighters and is holding it for ransom. Every day a new photo shows up with sponge bob poised in unlikely places that might lead to his demise or discovery. She said one of the funniest was the one of him dangling over the toilet. She hypothesizes that this prevention team is made up of old hotshots that just haven't gotten the pranks out of their system. Anyone have stories of hotshot and other firefighter humor? Robbie
8/29	Hey nerdy.......good word picture of the wildland FF.....don't take Ab's notation as a negative....I have had that done zillion of times and even had them pull some of my post completely because I was about to start a riot, innocently of course. I am working 1/2 day tomorrow <today> then....MY FF BABY IS HOME and we are going to the hot springs in Canada then up toward Calgary and circle around home. It was a very pleasant surprise to find him home this afternoon and I offered him a paid holiday trip and he graciously accepted.....poor kid he probably had all sorts of those FF like plans (pool-beers-girls-wash his truck ) and I begged.....so he is taking mom to Canada. Whatta guy!!!!! anyway you guys hold down the fort here and try to stay out of trouble,,,,I hope all of you have a safe peaceful 3 days and maybe some of you will be surprised too.... Oh yea, according to my hubby tonight....they are adding lots more equipment and manpower to the Mineral-Primm fire north of Missoula. I didn't ask him why but I wonder.......did it jump the lines today? Stay safe gals and keep talking.....sammi
8/28	On re-reading my post on identifying the wildland firefighter, I apparently didn’t make it clear enough that I’m talking about _off duty_ FF … on my crews (I run with several, wildland, structure, and EMS), anybody caught with alcohol, at all, in company uniform, let alone actually on duty, never runs with us again. Period. No tolerance, no exceptions. And that’s the way it ought to be. Sammi… Your post reminded me of an incident in our latest 4th of July parade…I was marching with my handcrew, of which I am the only female member. We looked darn good, if I do say so myself…crew boss in front, two single file squads side-by side, assistant crew boss at the tail, with packs and tools. We got misidentified most of the time, as Hotshots, ‘Firepackers’ (not sure, don’t wanna ask), a municipal brush disposal crew, and ‘the Texas chainsaw massacre’ (we’re not from Texas), but it was still pretty cool. Then we get toward the end of the parade, and this woman off to one side of us just goes nuts. “Oh my God, you guys are such hunks, you guys are such hunks…” then she sees me “And hunkette!”. Sigh. The hardest part was really watching these nice little old ladies walking up to our my tattooed, pierced, rowdy crewmates (my crew doesn’t look quite as scary as TazGirl’s, but they’d probably get along well) and thanking them ‘For keeping our town safe’…and knowing that if these same ladies caught these same fire fighters in their neighborhood out of uniform, they’d probably call the cops. Ce la vie, right? Southern Loving… Nope, that one wasn’t in Colorado…northern NM. Maybe just one step removed though. It’s a great quote. I really appreciate a good dispatcher…it seems like 90 percent of the time ours don’t get our unit IDs right, let lone know our locations and what we’re doing. It feels pretty lonely out there sometimes. TazGirl… I had one of those…(alcohol wise). He’d start drinking and the next morning we’d be talking and it wouldn’t even seem like we’d been to the same party. It’s a hard, strange lifestyle…most of my crewmates fight fire during the summer, ski patrol or make snow in the winter, and party in between…and then I came along and suddenly these guys were faced with a female, their age, who was not somebody’s girlfriend but who also wasn’t just some chick in a bar. I mean, I love my crewmates as brothers, but the culture shock aspect before they just concluded I was one of the guys was pretty darn funny. “Just so you know, you’re not a girl.” Was my favorite…in his articulate way my crewmate was trying to get across that any comments made about the general bass-ackwardsness of the female species didn’t apply to me. He honestly didn’t understand why I wasn’t flattered. Nerd on the Fireline Fig'gured you meant as much. Old hands know about zero tolerance but some wannabee's who read your post might not. The most painful situation I remember occurred one night some years ago when a group of excellent new EMTs (not firefighters) from out-of-region (Phoenix), who we desperately needed, accepted beer from a local who came to the campfire and caught them alone with no one to warn them. The Branch happened to be making rounds. Much as we needed those medical folks, he demobed them immediately. They were sorry to go. We were sorry to see them go. But rules exist for a reason and ignorance is no excuse. They came back some weeks later, much wiser. Ab.
8/28	Whew, I got to work this morning and there was sooo much family said to catch up on since I left work yesterday. I love it. I have a mental image of us all together drinking margaritas and yappin' away like chickens...and Robbie is bringin' us our refills at our command. Kidding, Robbie, kidding. (wink, wink) Thanks for everyone's input on my young relationship. We got to talk for quite a while last night since he was in a motel again on the way to a fire in Washington. Although he did have a roommate and was dead tired. You get what you get. He is pretty receptive to my plans of possibly dispatching although I don't think he knows much about it. Seems to think that is a much better idea than working for an engine crew. He's not real sure why I want to get into seasonal work either. But I told him if we are moving somewhere new together, I'm not gonna sit there alone all summer in a new place while he fights fire. And besides, I think it would be a good way for me to save some money to go back to school. It's hard to know what I want to do next summer this early on. I don't make decisions very easily. I AM a Libra after all. Who knows? Maybe I would rather just find a job and still get to see him on his days off now that he would be based close to home. We'll figure it out. And I agree w/ the "walk the walk, talk the talk" bit. That is what this winter will be for. It will give us some time together to see how things progress and see if we are ready to move anywhere together. Nerd and Tonya, It's nice to hear your perspective on the alcohol situation. It seems like the both of you know all too well what I'm talking about. What else do you do when you're 24 w/ no dependents and surrounded by 19 other guys your age half of the year?!! But I think that now he has met me and has someone to care about, his perspective and priority will change somewhat. I don't believe in changing or fixing someone because we all know how that story ends. But if by his own accord he wants to do some growing up, I'll stick around and see if he can live up to it. Some people need a reason outside of themselves to do so. Tonya, it sounds like you and your man have made an agreement that might work well for both of you. My FF doesn't necessarily want me out drinking w/ my girls either all the time, but since a) he isn't here and b) I haven't shown that there isn't any reason why he can't trust me, I will not agree to that. And he hasn't asked me either. And I haven't asked him. I think that decision is up to him. I don't want to mother him. He's his own man. I just told him that his promises don't hold any weight w/ me when drinking is involved. He realizes he doesn't have much self control once he starts drinking. When it is just the 2 of us, this is never really a problem. It's when he's w/ "the boys." By the way, the place we're talking about moving (Montana), I've never even been to before. How ridiculous is that?! I will definitely go check it out before making any decisions. Oh, and a question: can anyone tell me which HS crews up there are BLM crews? It seems my FF wants to work for the BLM instead of Forest Service. Don't really know why. But there are less BLM crews in Montana right? Than in places like Utah? Fire Momma, So it was the TV. Even more hilarious. I love watching movies too. The Hours is great! I haven't seen Adaptation yet. Have you seen All About My Mother (Pedro Almodovar)? Such a good one. And Amelie? We should get together on movies b/c I love them too and we can make good suggestions to one another. You need to see this documentary called Devil's Playground about Amish teenagers. It's quite interesting. You would be in movie heaven in Austin. Everything's here. I have been running 2 days in a row and am going tomorrow. I've been increasing my times a little, but not my speed. I'm going again today and I'm running the Keep Austin Weird 5K next week. That painting is awesome!!!! You are so talented. I wish I could paint like that. Keep to it, you are really talented. You're man must've melted. Wish I could go w/ you Sammi and get out of this Tx heat!!! Blech... Have a great time. TazGirl
8/28	Bambi...and anyone else really serious about staying straight financially, If you read back over what Oregon Jewel just shared, you'll have some solid kernels of financial advice you can count on. I've been both a commercial loan officer AND a business reporter and ignoring bills will haunt you far longer than you imagine. Like OregonJewel said, "normal" bill delinquencies can stay on your credit report for seven years. But, wiley creditors have figured out how to get around that too...they change collection companies and resubmit your delinquent bill. That way, it it "re-ups" the seven year time frame. Believe me, there will come a time when you want to buy a house...or another house...or a car...or even send your kid to college and have to co-sign for a loan...and it all comes boiling out. You can deal with it now...or you can deal with it later. My suggestion is now. Firstly, EVERYONE should look at their credit report at least once a year. Strange stuff is happening more and more, and someone else could be loading your credit history with rank ratings by charging in your name. Unless you look at it, you won't know. It also will give you a "real world" view of what you've done to your own credit history...good or bad. In terms of credit reports, I would also suggest taking a quick (usually free or low cost) course on "Getting your credit straight" which is usually offered through credit counseling services. They will explain 1) how to get a copy of your credit report; 2) how to read it; 3) how to challenge inaccuracies on it; and 4) how to set a course to "mend" it. A couple years ago I wrote a six-part financial series for the Medford Mail Tribune called "Minding Your Own Business." I can't seem to find the links in the archives. I'll keep looking. It really has all the information you need to actually work through some of this stuff. The first installment was just around Christmas when I wrote on the psychological strings that get us deep in debt each holiday season. Guilt is a horrid, horrid thing. Bambi, listen....if your SO reads...get a copy of "The Richest Man in Babylon" and stick it in his fire pack. He'll find it and most likely read it when he has plenty of time to focus on the message. Read it yourself. There's a reason its a classic. Ciao, Fire Momma
8/28	Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present the wildland fire fighter.<gleefully> The wildland firefighter is a strange creature; it generally travels in packs composed of nearly identical individuals identified by matching shirts, ball caps, and strange rituals impenetrable by the outsider, including bizarre and pointless ritualized feats of physical prowess, such as the pack test and push ups. When reinserted into conventional society, the wildland firefighter is often lost and confused, bewildered by the absence of hierarchal social structure, people in yellow shirts, and burning foliage. The wildland firefighter frequently deals with this confusion by resorting to alcoholic incoherence, belligerent behavior, and sometimes generalized destruction. The wildland firefighter is only heroic when forced to be by strategic failures in the system; it generally prefers not to be. Frequently, however, wildland fire fighters hold the exile’s idealized nostalgia for ‘normal life’ and will go to great lengths to protect communities, homes, and other symbols of the conventional lifestyle. Over time society has evolved a form of self-defense mechanism to push the distinct subtype known as the wildland firefighter further and further into the wilderness, isolating wildland firefighter packs from the collective. This process is probably for the best; if the subtype known as the wildland firefighter were to be encapsulated by society rather than isolated from it, occurrences of random line digging in public parks, backburning in hardware store garden sections, and calling in air strikes on traffic jams would undoubtedly be more widespread and disruptive. Identifying characteristics of the wildland firefighter include Nomex clothing, a distinct odor reminiscent of smoke, chainsaw exhaust, sweat, and driptorch fuel, a reluctance to be separated from its line pack, and a tendency to sharpen tools at inappropriate times. Other more subtle indicators include the tendency to burn themselves when lighting barbeques, accompanied by the pronouncement “It’s just a little fire, it can’t hurt me.” Wildland firefighters traveling in their packs are even more distinctive, made conspicuous by their tendency to move in straight lines lead and followed by dominant members of the pack hierarchy. A pack will frequently wear matching clothing, and travel in large square conveyances decorated with the pack insignia when moving long distances. When approached by a wildland firefighter or pack, it is important to maintain a nonthreatening demeanor, especially toward dominant members of the pack. Offering them alcohol, calling them “sir” or “ma’am”, and smiling and nodding appropriately to extending, rambling tales of flame-related escapades will usually defuse most potentially confrontational situations. Nerd on the Fireline (I guess I’m just trying to say we’re strange creatures) No alcohol on duty. No alcohol in govt rigs. Zero tolerance. Ab.
8/28	Fire Momma, When we first married he gave me the bills (so I could learn how to do it). Then after time and I was ready to give it back he wouldn't take it. And when times started to get rough and we had heated arguments I told him I was through writing the bills that I wouldn't do it since my unemployment check wasn't income. I refused to write the bills out. Our payments were late. And because I wouldn't write them, he started writing them out again. Now I do it when he is gone FF and he gets it back when he comes back. Nerd, As far a seasonal job, he got on as a sub with the state (only in the winter to push snow) BUT they have never called him to work. He has went up there but nothing. He also is a sub bus driver which allows him to FF. My dad gives him a few odd jobs every now and again. All the jobs are and would be great if the companies would work him more. He don't want to go back to the quarry. He can run heavy equipment, build anything, and FF, he is knowledgeable about fixing things. He is a very smart man. Clark Howard Groupie, I wouldn't dare ask his parents for money for them to hold it over our heads every time we turn around. She hassles him enough about everything as it is. Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not a b*hole....I love his parents but can only stand to be around them to a certain point. We have a thirteen year history that some things are hard to forgive and forget and its not so bad now but I wouldn't dare put us in that situation. I know it isn't fair asking my parents all the time. Sometimes I just feel like im at a dead end street. I guess I feel like there is no hope for our situation. Mellie, Ill get back to ya. My FF has just called and the crew is flying charter from MT home. yippie. got to go. Bambi I know I sound like a basket case. Not a basket case, just like someone trying to work out how to live with the wildland firefighter you love. We have all been through this with one issue or another. Ab.
8/28	Nor Cal Tom, You are a wise, wise man. Oh maaaaaaaan, Sammi, That's so very tempting. I'd love to go hot spring jumping with ya. I'm in the middle of painting my kitchen cabinets.....black. If I left now and ran the risk of my husband coming home before this project is finished, I'm history. My new kitchen is "Rocky Horror Picture Show meets Fly Fisherman." It's really quite interesting. Sammi....I'm with you in spirit sweet woman! You go romp! Fire Momma
8/28	Hi Everybody! Well I did my whirlwind trip to the Dakotas and got back home Sunday night in one piece. I got to spend 36 great hours with my southern boy and then saw my daughter and son for 18 hours while traveling 30 hours to see all of them. I then had to be back to work on Monday morning. But it was worth all the traveling to see them. I hadn't seen my daughter since Christmas and my SO since the end of July. My son usually works with me but is on a detail, so he won't be back home until maybe next week. Nerd on the fireline- Did you happen to be in CO last year, as I have that quote on my board. Alot of engine crews had me make copies for them. Another saying my engine guys tell the new guys is "you don't piss-off dispatch". You were also right in that I am in a local dispatch office so I am not as busy and tend to watch over the crews and anybody else that gets called out. But to me it is great when you can reassure a wife or father or SO that their firefighter is okay. I want them to not worry all the time and they also feel better knowing that I'm going to do all I can to get a hold of their loved one if an emergency ever comes up. Fire Momma- Don't worry I didn't get offended. My SO is from the south, I'm not and I tease him all the time about they way he talks. I had so many Southern guys working on the forest last year that they all said I was a shoe-in to go to dispatch in the southern region because I could understand southern and not have them repeat everything. But it's weird to hear them tell you that you have a western accent. I guess I do, but I can't tell. Also let me warn you about your daughter, My daughter just turned 22 and she has done everything that girls are not "supposed" to do like play hardball baseball in high school on a all guys team or fight fires. She stands a whole 5'2" and weighs 95lbs but can fight fires with the best of them. She is getting married next May and she is having an all male wedding as her two best friends are her brothers and they will give her away, then stand up for her. She did though decide to get married in a dress and not nomex like I thought might happen as she is marrying a FF. When she was young she played with hot wheels and lincoln logs or legos. Dolls weren't allowed anywhere near her by her own choosing. I wouldn't trade that for nothing. She makes me proud! Momma, I love reading your advice and your adventures. Keep writing in, as you are wise beyond your years. Taz Girl- I usually just dispatch out of the local office but if I do get a chance to go out I usually don't know anybody. It sounds like you are friendly enough that you would make friends easily. I know my SO always says that he can't take me anywhere that I don't know somebody or somebody doesn't recognize me or my voice. But he wouldn't love me any other way. How do you think I met him. He made me break all my rules when he asked me out last year after talking to me on the phone a couple of times. I had a rule I would never date anybody I worked with even if it was to dispatch him for a few weeks. But that was the best thing I ever did as we have been together 14 months and he cries as much as me when we leave each other. I know how you feel when you don't hear from your SO as I start to worry and get upset if it's even been a few days without talking to him. The longest we have not talked to each other was for 6 days back in January and he said he didn't ever want to do that again. He carries a calling card in case his cell phone doesn't work in certain areas of the country which happens alot with his subscriber. This page is the best for all of us to keep in touch with people who know what were feeling and not be judged. Guys, keep me laughing and if I can help in any way just send a post and I'll keep in touch. Southern Loving
8/28	I have to tell you guys this then I am off to dreamworld and it will not be about moths and flames. I told everyone this a while back but I think it is applicable. In the off season my FF does structure and EMS for the local system. One Saturday he was at training and I knew he was driving one of the new engines. This is not a brush truck but a real big normal fire truck......I carry a scanner with me sometimes when we are suppose to meet up later and I will know when to start home....anyway. I am on my way to town for something and I stop at the local, (we have one) gas station to fill up my rig. The tones go off and I turn the scanner up while I fill my car...from the scanner I know my FF is answering up a call south of where I was at the station and I heard them coming. Sirens blaring and air horn blowing they make a huge, impressive sight heading off to save someone....and it is impressive, just like the Calvary. As the engine came thru the intersection I could see my FF, in all his glory, and his officer for the day was leaning forward looking for traffic and they were just doing what they always do to get to a call. Well, one of the ladies said "aren't they just the sexiest, hunks you have ever seen?" to her friends....,,and my mouth (not brain) said, "naw, their not that impressive,I sleep with one of them every night" Well, by the looks on their faces I did not make a very good impression so I just calmly got my receipt from the pump and got back in a drove off. On the way to town I was sure hoping none of those ladies knows the Officers wife......any way the jest of the story is.....we all live with this 24/7 and the excitement and the hero stuff wears off and you guys and I and all other FF SO are left with reality. And sometimes our FF need to be brought back to reality also.....and we are definitely the ones that can do it......goodnight .tired sammi more from Sammi this morning: I can't remember if any of you have SO's on the Mineral Primm fire in the Lolo National Forest North east of Missoula, Mt. My FF called and said they have established 4 new spike camps and have over 1200 FF on it. he said a whole bunch of people from Calif got there today......(another story) I went to the Lolo National Forest web page and it lists all the states the FF on this fire are from.....impressive list if you are interested......fire is listed at 60% contained but that is because they combined it with another fire.....he said they watched one of the fires east of them blow up this afternoon,,,,said it was one of the more impressive ones. I don't know which one he was watching....
8/28	TazGirl, I just read back over your post. I didn't dispose of the Bionicle out the window. I disposed of the television out the front door. My daughter and my husband were arguing very loudly over who should be able to watch what. I participated in the resolution of that argument. After the television "died" we listened to "The October Project" on the stereo. It was my television from when I was single, so I had no guilt whatsoever launching it out onto the sidewalk. As I said, its final "death sighs" were extremely pleasing to me. On the flip side, it did NOT set a good example for my daughter in terms of argument resolution. It was just the combination of 1) loud arguing and 2) arguing over television that sent me "over the edge." I am pretty militant about TV. I think it insidiously steals our ability to be creative and think original thoughts. I really shouldn't say this, but, the looks on both of their faces were priceless. There is no misconception now how I feel either about television or arguing. When I say "TV" I really mean network programming. I do love movies. Usually alternative, or independent, or foreign. I think they can be inspiring rather than a brain suck. It just depends on the ability of the producer and screen writer...and the original story, of course. Unfortunately, in the small (extremely conservative, extremely white...) burg we call "home" I can't seem to find anything in the movie shops worth watching. A friend of mine turned me on to NetFlix. It enables me to order movies online that I could never find here. I just watched "The Hours" EXCELLENT! "Adaptation" is another one. (How do I watch these without a TV? I got a DVD player put into my computer. Ooooooohhhhh. I'm soooo sneaky!) We also have a DVD player, a LCD projector (for business presentations of course) and a big white sheet we hang on the wall for "Big Screen" movie nights. Hoosier...your suggestion was really right on. I'm just afraid that...should I bring all the wives of my fallers together...I'd be playing "124 questions" all night. You know...I could use someone's shoulder to lean on too. That's what you guys are wonderful for. Thank you. Fire Momma
8/28	Taz Girl: Please listen to that "inner voice" about changing your life to meet another's needs or your dreams. While we all want to believe what we want to hear....sometimes it takes seeing to believe. Let him prove to you that the situation warrants changing your life. Let him walk the walk and talk the talk. Bambi: As a banker who has lived with a self employed "seasonal worker" I can tell you that any delinquency on a jointly reported debt over 30 days will haunt you for the next seven years. Most utilities do not report to the credit bureaus unless they turn an account over to collection. Mortgage or Rent lates are the death knell on a credit report, as are collections and judgments. To everyone else: Keep the Faith! OregonJewel
8/28	Bambi, I'm a little late replying to your message here, but I'll go for it anyways. I am going to guess that where your SO is working in a fire job that is not a full time guaranteed 40 hours a week situation. I know that when I started working in fire I really didn't know all of the opportunities that are out there. There are many many fire jobs out there with guaranteed 40 hours a week, and also many that are year around or very close. I don't know what state you are in, but in California this is definitely the case. At the very least he should have a fire job that guarantees 40 hours a week during fire season. (with the feds or state usually) I wish you the best of luck, don't let his money situation affect your credit. He needs to take some responsibility, even if that means he works a job he doesn't like in the winter. -C
8/27	Bambi, telling us about your FF has reminded me of several such events in our lives and we survived. Our marriage has lasted longer than most of you have been alive. And, sorry to disappoint you ladies but some things are better and some things are the same. I can assure you, your guy absolutely means it when he says he loves you and you are the most important thing in his life. of course he means it, when he is on the phone with you or snuggling at home with you. BUT........I can assure you when those fires start popping up out there his brain goes to mush and he loses all connection with reality and he HAS to go!!!!!! if he didn't he would dissolve right there where he stands in a puddle of charcoal and dirty water.......doesn't mean we are not important and they don't love us. It is like a moth to the flame literally. I have no answer for the FF disease. It is incurable, and wrecks homes and relationships all the time. FF are a breed of people that cannot be described because they are all different and exactly alike. Over the years I have learned to manage a lot of life by myself. Some of it can wait on him but a lot I can do or get done. Bottom line......is he worth the trouble to you??? Of course he is......so we just find a way to adapt and overcome. Now, we certainly have the right to throw a foot stomping hissy-fit when provoked past our level of tolerance.......so givem hell then -givem loving. It will be ok......he is worth it......Soppy Sammi who just talked to her FF and found out he will not be home for the three dayer I have off like he thought. So I am gonna enlist a friend and go to Canada to the hot springs like Fire momma suggested....anyone close to North Idaho want to go....... Sammi
8/27	For what it's worth, firefighters are worn down and tired. The season is not over. There was some extreme fire behavior today. Let them know you love them and can't wait to have them home. Sort things out when they're rested, but sort them out. NorCal Tom
8/27	Bambi, Two people who continue to support the status quo - which is not working - is called co-dependence in psychological circles. Some people pay big bucks to get the great counseling you're getting here for free. I know it's hard to make a change and it's scary too. It's scary for both people. Easier to stay in known patterns. Figure out what to do about your finances, make a step by step plan, and stick to it. Honor your man enough to know that he and you together (or separately) can grow yourselves out of your shared current stuck situation. Assume he will deal with it, no threats, no recriminations if he threatens. (Ab, what does recrimination mean exactly anyway?) Resolve to get on with beginning to move. View it as a challenge. Make the first step in a positive way, and you'll be on your way. (Create an Incident Action Plan with proposed containment lines, burnout plans, and timeframes for accomplishing each goal. Firefighters are good at this goal-driven behavior.) I like the line "fish or cut bait", Nerd. Also, think "sh** or get off the pot!" is appropriate. (Now Ab, I didn't say what you think I did!! ;-) I put the stars in there! You can't find it on the bad word search engine! OK. OK, I promise not to model any bad behavior like in the good old days or theysaid... <coy little smile><bats eyelashes>) <quick change of subject> Artista, Very nice painting! Very very nice! Rad. I hope your honey appreciates it and appreciates YOU! Thanks so much for sharing it with us. This familysaid crew is pretty inspirational on alternative activities to keep busy. Is painting a new hobby you took up to fill your time while separated from your SO, if you can tell us without revealing your identity? (Phew, an alternative to roller derby?? and little bloomers under those skirts!) If you paint commercially, is this your first fire painting? If not new, have you ever tried painting abstract fire? Or how about creating a logo for theysaid, that's more along the lines of graphic art? Glad all you folks are helping and supporting each other. I love catching up on the "goin's on" here. You girls (and guys?) rock! Mellie Hoosier, maybe I could come to dinner sometime? Recrimination: a countercharge brought against an accuser. Ab.
8/27	Bambi - you are not being unreasonable about the gap! It's an adult's responsibility to meet their obligations, even if it means sometimes doing things you might not find appealing. Leaving you to deal with all the bills, stress, and having to ask YOUR parents for money to tide you over is completely unacceptable. If you dump the whole mess in his lap (including asking HIS parents for money)-will he deal with it? Clark Howard Groupie
8/27	Nerd, One of my favorite sayings.... (also a bumper sticker on my Toyota...) "Well behaved women rarely make history." Boo-Yah! Fire Momma
8/27	Hey everyone, I've been out of touch for a while getting ready for school to resume, but I'm back. My one great thing for the day is my FF will be coming home soon. YIPPEEE! Today was his last workday, and he will be demobing tomorrow. I can only hope that he makes it all the way back across the country by tomorrow night, I can't fathom being alone for another long day. Taz Girl: I'm not sure if it will help your relationship any but here is my approach that helped my alcohol loving FF realize how I felt about his actions. My FF also likes to drink, more than is good for him. We made a promise to one another about a month ago, and so far it is working really well. He didn't want me drinking around guys, especially if he wasn't there, and knowing his past experiences, I wasn't too fond of the idea of him drinking around many girls either. We laid out the rule that we only drink together, and if occasionally we want to drink with our buddies that we call first and make sure that the other is ok with it and it doesn't interfere with our plans together. I posted early this month about the last time my FF was out west and he spent several days drinking in bars with his crew instead of calling home to let us know that he was ok. Well, this is the current policy for our relationship involving alcohol. It seems to be working, we respect one another more for saying what bothers us and making a motion to fix it. I know this isn't exactly feasible in your situation of being away from your FF, but maybe it can help you decide what kind of ground rules you need to lay for the issue. Best of Luck to you! Fire Momma, Thanks again for all of the info you put in for the care package. In the end it didn't work out to send it. I got a phone call from my FF that said the rules for food in camp were pretty tight with the grizzlies so close by. I guess it is good that I didn't send those homemade banana nut bread loaves that I was so excited about baking....After the phone call I could see a big grizzly gnawing on all of my hard work. I am just glad that this trip is over, it seems like an eternity since I've laid eyes on my FF. To the Artista, The fire/helicopter painting is truly amazing. I am envious of your talent, my stick people are even hard to recognize. Thank you so much for sharing your art with the rest of us. However, you did make my life more difficult, if my FF sees your painting he is going to wonder why he found a science geek that likes to cause test tube explosions instead of an artist! I would love to see more paintings is you have them. This board is turning into a really high class place to hang out with the art and poetry. All that we're missing now is someone robbing us blind with expensive coffee. Keep aspiring, all dreams can be reached if the dreamer has enough heart.... Tonya
8/27	Bionicles: TazGirl; You’ve made me laugh again…over the course of a few relationships I remember multiple discussions about how ditching me at a dance for a bottle vodka was not okay, no he was not fun when plastered incoherent, and that three years together no longer qualified as ‘casual’…so I feel your pain. Quoting my second favorite advice columnist, ‘Women are not reform schools.’ There is definitely a learning curve, but there is also a breaking point. FireMomma; A FF friend of mine once told me that one of his proudest moments as a fire fighter (dedicated groundpounder) was watching his three-year old daughter slam her Barbie into the concrete sidewalk with a rousing “Boo-yah!”. You might want to be careful with a daughter who likes things that build things…she might turn out to be an engineer (as a scientist with engineering tendencies, I know that engineers are very dangerous people). Robbie; I’ve seen some lovely watercolors of wildland fires done by an artist out of Taos…I’ll look around and see if I can find you a name. Bambi… I think you’ve got the hardest row to hoe on the site at the moment…your SO needs to fish or cut bait. One thing you might be able to do to get the ball rolling would be to research winter-season jobs…I’d start with your local highways department. If your SO has quarry experience, he’s probably got lots of applicable job skills, and around here snowplowing and road salting jobs pick up in the winter. It may not be the most thrilling stuff in the world, but if he wants to eat anything but peanut butter sandwiches and Ramen he can stick it through. Nerd on the Fireline
8/27	Ladies and Gentleman, I know many of our FF travel in groups from the same area. If you haven't already call a fellow spouse or SO who has been left home and had them over for dinner, do so soon. After all who better to share your evening with than a spouse or SO who is going through the same thing. Last week a fellow fire widow had me over just before her FF returned. I couldn't repay her immediately for the favor because she needed time with her FF. However, I knew of at least 3-4 other fire spouses and SOs who are with out their FF right now. Tomorrow I'm having a woman I have never met over for dinner. I had such a great time last week with another fire widow and this week I'm looking forward to another evening with another adult! Only WE know what WE are going through. So if you know you're not alone but you haven't met the others who are sitting at home --see if you can call the station or the dispatcher and ask someone over. You just might help them through a really difficult time :) Hoosier
8/27	I'm feeling a lot better than I did this morning and my guy and I have talked on the phone numerous times today. I am feeling less like it's a big deal, and no, I don't think it's inexcusable. But on the other hand, I keep thinking about how it's the one time that I really wanted him to call and come through. And yeah, we did have the "preamble" to the talk that I mentioned, but it was clear between both of us that we would talk again later. And he was looking forward to it, as was I. I just wish a promise could be kept. He pretty much only breaks his promises when drinking is involved, and that is what concerns me. This issue has come up before and it is a big problem. He is well aware. And there isn't really anything I can do about it. I just hate not being able to trust him. I will give him credit though. He tells me repeatedly that he'll do whatever it takes to be with me and tells me his feelings for me plenty. I find that reassuring. I know that's not all it takes for things to make it work, but it's a start and does help. He does seem ready to make many concessions. He's just not used to it. He's never been in a long term relationship before...ever. I don't really feel like we can wait to talk for his visit, because that will be in October. And I used that tactic when I went to see him last and had some stuff to discuss and it didn't go all that great. When you have such little time together, anything that upsets you is just that much more upsetting because it's ruining the time you have. I waited two weeks to have a night where we could talk uninterrupted and for as long as we'd like and w/ him sober (it IS his days off after all) to talk about all of our plans, and then didn't get to. So it was really disappointment and frustration more than anything. I was really excited to tell him about my desire to dispatch and how much information I already knew about it (training & hiring I mean). But I think I have a very forgiving nature and can move on, without the resentment. But we do have some work to do... Thanks for your advice, Nerd, and everyone else for having to listen to all this stuff (boy if Normal reads this stuff, I'm in trouble). TazGirl ***bionicles, bionicles, bionicles...I guess I'm gonna have to look on the internet now huh Robbie? Next post, TazGirl must have refreshed the page... Yay...now I know what Bionicles are! What a weird name. They remind me of Transformers that were big when I was a kid. Man Fire Momma, your post really cracked me up. The window disposal of the Bionicle with sound effects was especially inspiring. And I really chuckled over the rolled up newspaper bit. It's a lot funnier to picture old people doing that. You funny....me laugh. TazGirl
8/27	Clark Howard Groupie, Thanks for writing back. Read on: Yes, we have been married for ten years. Yes, basic bills like home, car, gas, electric, food, and a few more. Everything (all bills) are in both our names. As far as unemployment, I tried to get him to go but couldn't make him understand that our bills need to be paid and that I am the only one bringing home money unless he gets odd jobs (his odd jobs are nothing definite, not even fighting fire back then because he didn't go out as much). (he has gone out more this year than past years). I was the one to make the call to unemployment, not him. All he had to do was go there and they had paper work and he went one time but I couldn't get him to go back. I feel it was male pride, I cant figure it out. He does not consider employment money as income. (We went through that when I went to college through the NAFTA program, trust me we had heated arguments over that one). I told him it was still money and even though I didn't hold down a job, it was still income. I have started a budget plan and it is working ok for now but our bills are piling up again and I don't know how much more my parents can give to keep us up. I am very worried, and scared that if we don't receive his check from FFing very soon, we will be in deeper debt than we all ready are. I keep telling myself all the bill collectors can do is come get it, but where does that leave us? homeless and hungry. Man wouldn't that be a pretty picture, NOT. I don't want us to lose what we have been working for since we have been together. He hasn't failed me as a husband, and I know how hard he works, I just want him to see my point of view and help me cope and fix the problem. Im also not telling him to quit his FF job. He has threatened to when we have had heated arguments and I tell him he doesn't have to quit, just find something to go along with it. In other words, find a job as a full time whatever he wants and do FF when they call him to go out. That is all I ask of him of a job. Just something to pick up the "GAP". Is that to much to ask? I have supported him from the get go of FF and still support him and will support him as long as that is what he wants to do and in the future if he wants to do something else I will support him in that also. I can't tell him or have no right telling him he can't do something but am I being unreasonable about the gap thing? bambi
8/27	TazGirl, I'd give ya a big hug if I could. But, remember....breeeeath. I'll make this point before going on...I advise you to never, ever think you have to care for either 1) another person or 2) yourself. If you can't do both at the same time in your relationship something's wrong sweetheart. That said, count to 10 or 50 or 126 if necessary before jumping to the conclusion that your SOs recent action is entirely indicative of all future behavior. Allow for transition, but keep your eye on trends. (Geesh...that sounds so dry....or like the Sit Report weather outlook). Regarding "Bionicles" - They are connected ever so distantly to Legos, the company that makes them. Here are two examples. There are "good" guys and "bad guys." And if my daughter saw these pathetic examples, she'd probably roll around on the floor laughing at me until she was in tears. I did my best...but probably put a bad guy's face on a good guy, or vice versa. It's all so confusing to me. I hate TV and threw the last one out the door onto the front lawn where it landed in 257 pieces...it made an incredibly satisfying "shoowoooshhhhhhhhh ... ssssssss" sound. So, my daughter plays with lots of things that "make" other things....like Legos (the real ones), Tinker Toys, Lincoln Logs, Kinex,....and Bionicles. I'm not even sure where she learned about these things...they admittedly appear very disturbing. I read "the story" and surprisingly they emerged from the concept of Mayan warriors. The current "story" is very, very, very far removed but...like all things...seems to revolve around good vs. evil. (My problem is that I have no idea which is which. They all look pretty wild to me....) I have not tried to direct my daughter's interest in play things other than I give her blank paper instead of coloring books, and am constantly buying fresh crayons, markers, pens and pencils, etc. My older daughter's loved Barbies and My Little Ponies. My youngest daughter would undoubtedly strap a parachute on Barbie and throw her out the second story window to see if she could fly. (Her father was a Smokejumper). I try to stay away from "gender specific" toy comments and let her explore where she will. Without exception, she likes stuff that builds other stuff. So be it. Nerd, I can see you sitting in the front passenger seat talking to the driver...your face slightly aglow from the dashboard lights. You sound like a trooper. Keeping the driver awake makes me think of my grandparents. They are from Oklahoma...and sound like it. They also like flea markets and yard sales and get up quite early to "get the good deals." When I was young, they'd drag me along with them. To keep my grandfather awake, my grandmother would roll up a newspaper and hit him on the head with it at his request. "Hit me, Mary. Hit me" My lord, I'd slide down in my seat embarrassed that folks in nearby cars were watching. Oh, the scars we carry with us in life. ; ) Fire Momma
8/27	Lurker, nice painting. Does the artista do this professionally? Might she do one for commercial gain? Does anyone know... Are there many firefighter paintings out there besides the one(s) done by Monte Dolack in 2000? Robbie
8/27	Ab, First let me thank you for helping me share this with the Family Said Community. The painting was a gift to a FF. I thought others might enjoy it too. PS. Thanks for the complement, the artist will appreciate it. Lurker It had to be shared here. What an inspired gift. My compliments to the artista. I will get to posting it to Miscellaneous 2 within the next few days. Ab.
8/27	TazGirl, She's gonna keep us in suspense on the bionicle thingie dingie. More exercise in patience. Robbie
8/27	Whoa, TazGirl… My gut instinct, not knowing the guy, would be to say wait for the visit. It sounds to me that you’ve got a good guy who got caught up in the crew social whirl and spaced the call…or considered things pretty well worked out base don your earlier call. I’m not saying he didn’t goof up big; I’m saying it doesn’t sound UTTERLY inexcusable. I wouldn’t kick him to the curb just yet, and I wouldn’t nurse a grudge…but I wouldn’t make any decisions at all until you’re face to face. Conversations without body language get muddled awful fast. One thing though…I’ve always found it tough to wait for those face-to-faces with an open mind/heart…if you let resentment build up, you won’t be going into your talk with a fair frame of mind, and that’ll just mess everything up. He sounds like he’s more than ready to make big concessions to make the ‘y’all’ work…at least give him a chance to walk the walk if he’s willing to talk the talk. You’re mad right now (and gawd knows I would be)…but as far as relationship crimes go, in my book this is a pretty little one. Take the time to find out if the tip of an iceberg or just a chunk in the frozen margarita of life. Nerd on the Fireline
8/27	Fire Momma I'm doing great, thanks for asking. We have overcast skies and rain and my guy is getting R&R today! And we have REAL RAIN - not that cracking lightning, crashing thunder and five minute downpour stuff, but honest to goodness steady light rain without fireworks! Hurray! You can actually smell the moisture in the air, it has to be the most refreshing thing I've experienced in a while. I have all the windows and doors open so I can take full advantage of it. I think I'm finally getting a handle on the firefighting schedule. I'm actually unprepared at times when my guy has R&R because time slipped away from me and I find myself saying, "Has it been 14 days already?!" Of course, part of that is because I'm a hopeless procrastinator - why do today what you can put off until next week? (LOL) Of course TazGirl's Adventures in Roller Derby has been a great distraction. I find myself haunting Family Said at least once a day just to see what's going on with her and all the others. Well better go for now, I still need to clean house before you know who gets home! What can I say? Take care all, Heli Groupie
8/27	Bambi-this may take some tough love. Are you married to your SO, and are you talking about basic bills like rent/mortgage, food, utilities? Do you have other bills under separate names? Does he get unemployment? If you aren't married, and do have separate (other then living) expenses, the answer is simple-don't pay any of his bills with your money. If he is the one dealing with the consequences, it may (and I stress the word may) change his behavior. If you are having a hard time just meeting basic living needs-calculate how much you need to make it through a year-then take a look at his OT and see how much you need to put in savings to make it though the lean season. Will he talk about and make commitments to long term financial goals (including not spending that OT to make sure that winter expenses are covered)? If not, you may need to "decouple" your financial lives in order to maintain your relationship, and your mental/financial health. A visit to a financial advisor who can help you outline the "big picture" and provide neutral third party advice to your SO may also be helpful. Whatever you do, please don't compromise YOUR financial situation because of his behavior. Clark Howard Groupie
8/27	Well, I have to vent. I hope this is an okay place to do so. I can't to anyone here...they wouldn't understand. I need some help to gain some perspective on things. Sometimes you can't tell if you're being dramatic or if you have a right to be upset. Anyway... So last night my HS and I were supposed to have this "talk" that I've been mentioning right? I called him earlier in the evening to let him know I'd be out a little longer than I thought but that I would be home at such and such a time. And we had a little preamble to our conversation and the things we wanted to talk about. This is all about our future plans really, so I think it's fair to say it's pretty important. He told me that he's willing to get on another crew. Which is huge. He hasn't switched crews since he got on the one he's on and probably never dreamed of doing so...until he met me. Another crew, for those of you that don't already know, would mean that he is based out of the west and not Alaska. Big difference. And I told him that I'm thinking about dispatching. He thought that was a great idea. So this was all very exciting and we were both feeling pretty good about things. He had to go and I had to go so we agreed to put more talk off until we both got home (him to his hotel). At the time, he was at the bar w/ one of his buddies, and he swore up and down to me last night and the day before, that he would be sober for our call and not stay out at the bars this particular night. I started home about 1:00, no call. 1:30...no call. 2:00...no call. You get my drift: NO CALL. I was SO disappointed. And worried. I call him this morning and he answers his cell. Why he didn't call me first I can't understand other than I'm sure he knew he was in deep and wasn't ready to deal with it. He was also late for work this morning and dealing with that. At one point, he sounded like he was going to quit. But he didn't, which is good...even if it means I won't see him any sooner. He needs that job. Apparently he got wasted last night and came back to his hotel and passed out. And he didn't need much explanation from me to know what a big deal it was that he didn't call. Now understand, I'm not that uptight and any other night it wouldn't have been a big deal. But this was our "meeting of the minds" talk as Fire Momma would say and he let me down. So I'm feeling really disappointed. I told him I'm sure as hell not moving out of state for someone I can't even depend on and trust. That's logical right? And he just kept going on and on about what an idiot he is, etc. But I told him that's not what I want to hear. I told him a lot of things and can't go into that, 'cause it would take forever. I guess basically it comes down to his drinking and how when he goes drinking w/ the buddies it seems like all priorities are lost. He couldn't stop telling me this morning how I'm his priority. But what good does that do me right now? He asked why I even put up with him. I told him that it's because I love him and believe in sticking by someone, but that honestly, I asked my self the same question occasionally. He's made progress but am I bound to deal w/ this always? Do men ever grow up?! When do you get to the point where you have to put your feelings for someone aside and look out for your self? When you're married, you stick around no matter, but when you're single...that can be a different story. I dunno. I'm confused. I went from such a high last night about our big plans and feeling good about things to a big low and being SO disappointed...and mad. I HATE being mad. So now he says he is going to come here on his next days off and he will have to even take a few days off b/c he has to go to Maine for his grandmother's wake right around then too. I warned him about the money and he says he doesn't care if it cost two thousand dollars, that he knows he needs to come here to fix things. Is this just butt kissing or should I take him sincerely? I need some perspective, friends. Trust, communication and actually seeing one another more than once every three months...ingredients to a successful relationship that I'm feeling a real lack of right now. Thanks for listening and sorry this is so long winded....an exercise in patience for you all. ;) Fire Momma, I loved your story. You are a great writer and storyteller. (although I'm w/ Robbie...what IS a Boinicle?) You and Sammi sure do contribute a lot of wisdom and perspective and humor around here. Hope you all enjoyed the photos... TazGirl
8/27	TazGirl: A big ol’ rebel yell coming your way…Way cool, sister. I wouldn’t want to get on the wrong side of your team in a dark alley… Sammi: You’ve brought a lump to my throat…I’m remembering sitting shotgun on the way back from a few fires, watching the nighttime road go by and listening to my guys breathing in the back, feeling bone-tired an relaxed and happy, a dead dragon under our collective belt. I’m remembering fighting to keep my eyes open and talking to my squadboss to make sure that he’s still awake and driving right, long, comfortable silences and then unloading the vehicles, moving slow and talking quietly, the reluctance to split apart and head back to our respective homes…the little farewell rituals then the minor let-down of driving the last stretch home alone. I guess the best we can hope is that those boys fell asleep like that, tired and happy, and never realized they never woke up. Nerd on the Fireline
8/27	Okay, I need to snap out of this funk. Our "whirlwind" Fire Tour 2003 was quite the experience. I drove to Eugene, picked up a rental car I could totally abuse with loads of miles (and it actually turned out to have exponentially better gas mileage than my own little Toyota truck). I headed first for the Idaho Panhandle to take my 8 year old to see her grandmother. That was great fun except that I think the heavy metal in the water up there has taken a more significant toll than folks are willing to admit. I learned to play darts in downtown Wallace while my daughter engaged in her family "get together." Hard core dart players are a unique breed...at least in Wallace they are. We then headed to Montana first to check on what fallers we could find (here's a picture of one of our falling teams), as well as talk to fire overhead. Well, my daughter didn't talk to fire overhead. She played with her Bionicles in the car while I partook of the business conversations. I don't have any good fire photos of Montana because honestly, all I saw of Montana was the brake lights of the car 50 feet in front of me. It wasn't until we slipped over LoLo Pass that we could see any distance. But! There lies a natural treasure at mile marker 142 over LoLo. Hot Springs lovers take note! Let the hordes cloud the waters at Lolo Pass Hot Springs. Jerry Johnson Hotsprings...and other "signed" hot springs. MP 142 isn't marked. You just have to know its there. Now you do. We ran into the El Cariso Hot Shots at Gart Sports in Missoula. They'd just come down from a fire near the Canadian border. Seemed like a nice bunch of young people. We picked up (get this) the books on tape version of Robinson Crusoe. You know, thinking we were on this big adventure, I figured Robinson Crusoe's adventures would fit right in. WHAT A CROCK! I think I actually convinced myself I had read the book in high school. After listening to the entire 8 volume audio version, I can say.. there's no friggin' way. I found myself telling the narrator to "Get ON WITH IT..." Victorian verbosity is unbearable, especially when you're trapped in the car with it for hours on end! (I would never have imagined that a writer could make a Cannibal scene boring!) I really did grow weary of listening to Crusoe lament his "unfortunate condition." You know what my daughter told me? "Mom, this is actually an exercise in patience." Yes! It came out of her mouth! An 8 year old. For the life of me I don't know where she got that phrase. Certainly not from me. The best part of our whole trip was seeing my husband in Elk City...and truth be told...that was a largest reason I went. (Big surprise.) We needed to have a "meeting of the minds"...which we did. I could only bear sleeping a couple nights in fire camp (I brought a cooler full of food.) . The last night in camp, there was a tremendous thunder storm. My daughter made camp in the back seat of the rental car (with her flashlight, favorite stuffed dog and box of Bionicles). My husband and I slept in the tent (if you can call starring at the top of a lightening lit tent all night "sleeping." The thunder shook the ground. Even though it was raining heavily outside, my hair was full of static electricity. (Oh my...Okay...***Lightning***....one, one thou....***Thunder Clappppp*****...Uh...let's see...what was that "Six Minutes" Safety thing on "What to do in a Lighting Storm"? I honestly couldn't remember. So, I just laid there.) The next morning we hear there was a man who had died from a heart attack on the fire line. I swear, even above the lighting and thunder, those Elk City Fire Camp generators were the loudest I've ever heard. On the third day, four of our fallers were not on the shift plan. So, for R&R I took them to Red River Hot Springs (I am a shameless hot springs fanatic...and will even settle for a developed hot springs when there aren't any wild ones nearby.) It was wonderful to watch them playing like kids. The last night we were in Elk City I rented a little house on Main Street. My husband had thought we would go in to one of the local eateries for dinner, but by the time he got off duty I had marinated pork chops, dressing, salad, and corn on the cob ready for dinner. I even wore a dress! Woo-hoo! I had no intention of spending the evening around loads of other people. My little one fell asleep on the couch watching a John Wayne movie. ... we didn't... I do have three photos I wanted to share from Grangeville expanded dispatch. Ab, can we put these in the photo gallery somewhere? These folks work incredibly hard...and they don't have a window to the outside! Three cheers for expanded dispatchers! When we got back home, I posted several fire photos. Ab said they'd be up soon. I have some others, and will post them soon. Poet...did you see yours? TazGirl, I really enjoyed the roller derby pics. What a crack up! Tonya....I've been wondering if you were successfull in delivering your care package??? Heli Groupie, how are things with you? Southern...are you still around? Sammi - I can see by the archives you've been taking good care of "the girls"! Good job. Ciao, Fire Momma
8/27	Fire Momma, I almost hate to ask. What are bionicles? Robbie
8/27	various perspectives have been posted in Family Said, more this year than last; most disagree about something, normal and healthy for the most part. Everytime I read about some bad news that hasn't yet made media hype, I say THANK GOD I didn't get a phone call (worse a knock on my door or my pager buzzing). my kids have been in wildland for 10+ yrs; by the Grace of God, mine have been safe, so far. (x xx crossed fingers, toes & eyes) after reading They Said before reading these posts, I am again compelled to offer sincere condolences to the friends and family of those FFs who are no longer with us. to readers and posters in here, glad I sent my donation to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation = great organization and they quickly sent needed dollars to the families of our fallen compadres. NZ MOM (wanna hear about the jumper in a tree last season? it was funny in retrospect) pray all our loved ones return safe and sound to tell their "war stories" soon. another northzone
8/26	Little preview and some questions: Sammi, could you please clarify the photo descriptions on Air Tankers 8 & AT descriptions? Also Fire 18 and Fire 18 descriptions. Can't tell what you did with the truck driver. Catskilldog, How about those same pages and Helicopters 11 & Heli descriptions? Any more info? Are they from MT? You got any more to say on yours, Fire Momma? Thanks, ladies. Ab.
8/26	I'm off the clock but having trouble getting up and leaving. Maybe just going home to that empty house is not looking too good right now. So I am sitting here reading all the newspaper articles about the First Strike guys. All we can do is offer our prayers and send support via this list to the family, friends, co-workers and even the FF left out on the fires. We all know they are heavy hearted also and it's tougher for them because they do not have ready information available. Like I have already said I have never heard silence before and I did Sunday Night when I told my husband about the accident. last night He said they made the announcement at briefing yesterday and then had a moment of silence in respect for the loss. Poet mentioned "don't know what to say". Believe me, there is nothing to say. I can honestly say "been there done that" and the parents and families of these guys are just numb. The stages of grief are real and people go thru them at different speeds and different degrees. These families have awesome support around them and they will come through this ok but it is damn hard and grieving is hard work. I remember a few years ago our baby boy......got his first call to go out on a fire down on the Clearwater. He had been working all day stacking slash and was just exhausted. He washed up, put on sweats and passed out on the floor. Some time after midnight the phone rang and we all knew what it was so the whole house set up a motion to get him on his way. (didn't take a lot he had his packs ready weeks before) he was to leave from the base about 35 miles away and he fully intended to drive his pickup to town and leave it for when he came back. Unbeknown to me....my husband went out first and started his pickup and told-----"throw your stuff in the back son, I'm driving". Lots of hugs and be carefuls later they left. I was so proud of both of them. Memories will mean a lot to the mom's and dad's of these firefighters. "be safe----don't be a hero".....thats the last thing my guys hear from me if I see them before they leave ... I'm going home now. and I am gonna be thinking about these wonderful, vibrant, young guys all sacked out all over that van dreaming of all the fun, hard work and great adventures they had in Idaho with their buds. to bad wishes can't be bought at the store..... sammi
8/26	Thanks Sammi. It is a tough sport and we see LOTS of bruises. I have been very fortunate to have not had any injuries. Ab said he (it is he right?) would include the picture link since we could kinda consider it Hotshot training. I like that! Funny... And as to your question, we (most of us) wear bloomers under our skirts, some frilly and some not so frilly. And a couple of the other teams wear pants. But we have quite the variety of bloomers among 60 of us. They are some creative gals. A lot of them have messages on them too if you catch a glimpse at a game. ;) All in good fun... TazGirl
8/26	Wow! TazGirl! Great pictures! I don't know why you'd worry about keeping up with the Hot Shots...they should worry about keeping up with you. You gals are one group of tough cookies! I love watching "Insomniac", I haven't seen the episode on the roller derby but I'll be keeping an eye out for it on the reruns. Last week you wrote that you might be interested in moving to Missoula, MT. I sent an email to Ab to forward on my email address to you (I don't know if you got it or not - since I sent it right as the weekend was starting). Anyway, I might be able answer your questions and help you out. I don't live in Missoula but do live in the regional area and have been here my whole life. It's great to hear that some of us are slowly but surely getting our SOs home. My guy comes home for his R&R on Wednesday so I'll be a little preoccupied for a couple days (if you know what I mean?!) I think I'll make another batch of goodies for the crew before he goes back...new fire, new batch of goodies. Who knows maybe I'll turn this into a tradition. Hopefully he won't eat all of them on his trip back to the fire (lol). Poet, Keep those poems and words of inspiration coming! Ab, thanks for correcting my spelling on my last post. I had it that way at first and then second thought myself and changed it. What is SpellCheck for again??? Heli Groupie
8/26	I've been trying to think of what to say about the tragedy that happened. This is what came out: **************** Tomorrows become our Yesterdays. It's in the "Nows" that we build the foundations of our past And the stepping stones of our Future. ******************** At least to me, Firefighters appear to live in the "now". They live life to the fullest, pushing themselves and their environment to the limit. I take comfort in knowing that those who lost their lives at least lived them the way they wanted to. So many people out there live their lives in the "I wish I had" or the "what if's." I know that for me, I feel twice blessed for knowing my HS FF. One, for the love that we share, and two for the privilege of seeing the passion and fire for life in his eyes. My heart goes out to those families who had their loves ones taken from them, and that wonderful spark put out. Poet
8/26	From the g'ma on the list I am absolutely in awe of the roller derby chick..... good grief that looks painful. I want to know what is worn under the skirts...... Way to go girl. sammi
8/26	Catskilldog, Wow, how nice it must be to have your FF lover HOME! I can't imagine. I won't see mine for quite a while still. And yes, that is us in the Jane mag. article. There is another little blip about us in Bust magazine and Playboy as well. The only reason we are in Playboy is because we were on the Dave Attell Insomniac show on Comedy Central and the article is really about him. I haven't seen it. But we are in NO WAY in there because any of us take our clothes off...just to clarify. Thanks for the encouragement for working out. We will have to push each other. Wish I had someone to train with. That is much more motivating. I'm going running today and will try to get back on track. My weekends are so crazy I never get anything done. I got to talk to my HS for a long time last night. And tonight, we have plans to have the "talk" about future plans, etc. I guess I already mentioned it yesterday. I'm just so happy that this is not something I have been pushing on him and he seems to be looking forward to it actually. You know how much guys usually hate "the talk." I just don't know what to make of all of this. I mean, yes, things are going great...but then again, we never see each other. We only talk on the phone. So I'm a little nervous about how things will progress once we are together on a day-to-day basis. I'm not going to move to his state and he's not going to move to mine. I think we both agree we would need to start out together on neutral ground. And I have had experience w/ this before, and moving to "my turf" doesn't really work and vice versa. But this is all kind of a long way off so we'll just have to see how the winter goes. I'm excited about traveling together for a couple of months over the winter. I suppose that will really be the make us or break us stage. I sent the roller derby link to Ab. Keep in mind when viewing pics, we are kind of a rowdy bunch (hence.. roller derby) but I have never met a more exceptional, compassionate group of women....tattoos, piercings and all. Thanks for everyone's encouraging words. Have a great day, TazGirl
8/26	Ab, I didn't actually send anything w/ that last one, no pictures I mean. I just said you could give out my e-mail if they wanted to see them and I would send them the link. It looks like at least a few would like to see them. I know they are not fire related, but here is the link. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to go about this, but I will try it this way. http://grooveefortune.com/beaubeen/rollerderby/txrg82403/ I am in two pics. The Hell Marys, my team, have the red plaid skirt. Hope this is not coming off as really self-absorbed. Thank you, TazGirl Oopsie, I sent FireChica the tame photo of you and yore momma. Your link is not fire-related but we'll make an exception... Hotshot training? Ab.
8/26	This post and photo came through a few days ago with more photos. Finally getting to it. Ab. Poet, Though I have a lot, the first picture I'll post is for you as a "welcome" to Family Said. This is the Blow Up of "The Poet" Fire out of Elk City, Idaho this last Thursday. The picture was taken from the Slims Fire Camp. Fire Momma
8/26	Elaine posted a good collection of articles on the firefighter deaths. Check theysaid if you haven't already done so. Ab.
8/26	TazGirl, you rock! I am sure with all that roller derby experience you could give any HS a run for his/her money! (Ab, I would love to see the pictures.) FireChica One comin' yer way. TazGirl, did you send more than one? Ab.
8/26	hi all, well, my FF lover has been home for two weeks and will be until next fire season. he started college last week and he seems to be enjoying it. it's really great having him around all the time now. he's my bud and i can't wait til we can go riding (motorcycle) together. i've picked out a cool frame for my bike -- next is finding the motor i want. i've been running with my lover three days per week since he got back. he's helping me get into shape so maybe i can think about trying out for a position with the crew next season. so far, i'm doing really well! i'm also weight training on alternate days and it feels great to get back into it. i was slacking there for a while. my lover says we're going to get me in the best shape ever!!! i can't wait! tazlina girl!! i saw an article in Jane mag about the roller derby girls in austin. did you know about it? how's your workouts going? share with me and i'll share with you. keep eachother motivated!! i hope all of your FFs are safe and kicking butt out there!! ab, i've attached a zip file with some pics from my FF's summer fires. catskilldog Catskilldog, could you please send in some descriptive words about the photos?... where and when would be fine. I labeled them MT fire, but I don't know if that's correct. Ab.
8/25	Hello everyone. Hope everyone had a nice weekend. I was excited to check back in today and see what everyone's been up to. And then I saw the awful news. I was shocked to hear about the 8 FF's that died. I am terribly saddened by this news. I can't imagine what their families must be going through. My thoughts and prayers will be with them. I was thinking also of how the remaining 11 FF's must have felt on the ride back home with almost half of their crew dead and left behind. I can't imagine their grief... Thanks for the butt kicking encouragement Nerd. And Fire Momma, thanks for asking how it went. I'm here to tell you....we lost. BUT we put up a darn good fight. We played hard and well. And I took the bionic woman out at least once. And she also sent me flying once. I was airborne for a couple of seconds and landed w/ quite a thud. But I got up again very quickly thank goodness. The best part was when there was a big dog pile fight among both teams. Everyone was fighting...but all in good fun though. There are some pictures on the web and if you're interested, Ab can give you my e-mail address and I'll send you the link. And I'm not even too sore today. My dad came to the third game in a row and had a blast. I swear, I have the biggest, loudest, best fan group there that are all my friends and family. It's awesome. They sit in the same section every time and just cheer and cheer way more than anyone...and louder. Great to have that support. And my brother, who is our mascot, was in the middle of the rink leading everyone in cheers. It was awesome. Wish you guys could come watch. Sammi- where are your pics posted from your trip and the fires? My FF is on his days off right now in Boise. I have still been able to talk to him a couple of times a day lately and it is soooo nice. I guess he will work through September, maybe a bit of October and then come here for a visit. He will have to go back to Alaska for a couple of weeks in October before coming here so it will still be a while. One day at a time... I'm just picturing the beach and a full moon in Thailand. Thinking about that is a nice distraction. But I did have to go to another wedding dateless again this weekend. What is it about weddings and going alone? It sucks. I don't think I've ever had a date to a wedding. Someday. I guess that's about it. I've been too busy to do much exercise since last week so I'm gonna get on it tomorrow. But roller derby counts as exercise right? I'm kind of excited to talk to my FF more tomorrow when we get the chance so I can tell him my dispatcher plans and see what he thinks. We are both going to bring some ideas to the table to talk about the future and see what's do-able. But that's still a little far off for us. Again, I want to offer my condolences to the WFF community and the tragic loss of the 8 First Strike Firefighters. TazGirl Ab hasn't gotten to Sammi's photos or some other good ones from Canada and elsewhere. Sometimes (all too often) unexpected research takes priority.
8/25	Bambi, Remember the old saying..."Ignorance is Bliss...?" The way I handled the particular situation you seem to be going through was to hand all bills and bill paying over to my SO. This, after his complaints that we didn't have enough $ because I spent so much. I said, "Oh, really?" "Alright..." So, I gathered up the bills, made a full accounting (listing) of the regular monthly bills, as well as the periodic ones and showed him the budget for things like food, gas, etc. Balanced the checkbook to the penny. Placed the checkbook squarely on top of it all...and said..."Have at it, my love." Approximately two weeks later my (now sweet and soft spoken) SO sits me down and apologizes for making the initial assumption. He also now has a full appreciation of where the money comes from and where it goes to, the timing, any gaps if there are any...and how I handled those. Rather than raised voices and finger pointing (well, with the exception of the beginning of this episode) this seemed to bring us together in terms of household planning, budget and bill paying. So, to swing around to my first point...For your SO, perhaps ignorance is "bliss", but his ignorance (or denial) certainly doesn't appear to be leading to yours. I suggest turning up the heat. Good luck. TazGirl, I don't believe we've heard the results of Sunday's roller derby match?????? Fire Momma
8/25	Hey everyone, I posted this web site to They Said a week or so ago - http://www.montanafires.com/ It has up-to-date fire news and links to the agencies' websites plus pictures of the fires. Most of the pictures are from the area newspapers and have lots of crew pictures on them with the cutlines that appeared in the newspaper they came from. The reason I mention this is I thought someone might luck out and get a chance to see their guy/gal in action. They usually list the firefighter's name(s) in the caption if they got their names, or will at least mention what crew they are with. My sympathies to the family, friends and firefighting community who these 8 people's lives touched. Take care all, Heli Groupie
8/25	Hello all. This time I would like to share a posting of "notes" that I keep in my pocket to help me hang on when those times get tough.. Feel free to copy and print anything I write here. If it helps me it might help you. ************* Remember to never do anything that you feel isn't right no matter what, and never forget you should trust your heart. "Chicken Soup for the Teenagers Soul" **************** "Unless we know who we are, how can we offer what we have?" -source unknown ************** Love is God's greatest gift and is not to be taken lightly. Trust in God, and the opportunities he presents you. Treasure each moment. Believe in the goodness of all things. Live passionately in all parts of your life. Let your light shine in all you say, think and do. Life is full of possibilities, it is up to you to grasp them and run with it. Life is full of opportunities; it is what you do with them that make you who you are. Love is reflected in love. To expose your soul to love is the greatest risk. Without risk, there would not be a true measure of the profoundness of love. Life is to short to not live each moment to it's fullest. Smile often, laugh loudly, and love deeply ************ -some of these I wrote, some are from other sources ************ "There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela ***************** Meditation, Quiet, Peace. Something I did not know was missing. It took an end to find the beginning. An awakening, a dawn, a new life unfolding. Each day a joy, and adventure. Finding one's passion for life. Old thoughts, old ways viewed anew. Life's journey unfolds, the adventure awaits! -Poet ************** >From the heights of a sunset To the depths of a sand dollar, A time never to be forgotten. Things to remember forever. It all comes back as A mist in your eyes from a smoke of a distant fire. -Written by :BW ************ I also recommend the following sites as sources of daily inspirations. Non-erligious in nature, but they seem to always have something that I can learn and grow from. Some of them try to sell stuff, but the daukt/weekly newsletters/e-mials are still free. www.dreamsalive.com LifeSupport-subscribe@yahoogroups.com http://www.5passions.com
8/25	Last night as I sat watching the news, I was very glad my husband was home. I just cried when I watched the report on those 8 FF who died in the crash. And this morning it was the big thing on the Today show. It is sad for everyone in the FF community when another dies. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those fallen and those still out on the all the fires. Poet... Thanks for the new poem. I hope you don't mind if I hang this one up on our wall too!! You are so talented. FireWife
8/25	As of about 10 pm last night word of the 8 deaths had not made it to the part of a big fire my husband is on. When he called I just could not hold back the tears and was the one to tell him.( I never cry when he calls) I have never "heard" silence but I did last night. It is way to soon to know the how' why's of the tragedy but at some point I think we need to discuss on our list the ways we might address some of the issues of FF safety on the highways. (should have been done after the Grayback wreck last year). We did it with the shelters and we were heard.....for now we will grieve and then we will get mad and that is when we need to discuss this. There is a huge hole in the firefighter family today and time will help fill it but for the families I cannot even imagine the grief. Ab's: Do they announce the deaths at morning briefing? After my husbands reaction last night I am concerned what news like this does to the morale and concentration level on the fires. Is there any way to get names and addresses of the families (after they are made public) so we could at least send cards? can't remember if we did that for 30 Mile or Grayback........ sammi Most serious incidents that may affect firefighter concentration are announced at morning briefing. The Safety Officer and Deputy Incident Commander or Human Resources person (who may be the Deputy IC on a Type 2 team) gets a sense of whether anyone needs further time off and counseling to deal with the loss. Sometimes there is a standdown of the entire team and all the firefighters. Fire managers receive information often from their home dispatching units regarding incidents that may be upsetting to the troops. They are usually very aware of accidents and take appropriate action. Ab.
8/25	Poet I hope you don't mind if I add a few thoughts. A few word to help families of fallen FF's cope: For any weaving that needs to be done, God sends the threads. -Italian Proverb The mantra to help you make it through: "Need to , Can do, Have to, Will do." -Douglas Pagels I hope these words of wisdom help someone. My heart goes out to all the families of fallen Fire Fighters. We are thinking of you in our prayers as well as the FF out on the job, keep safe. With deepest sympathy, bambi
8/25	A call, a hug, A kiss, a sigh. Too soon, it seems Out the door he must fly. A day goes by Maybe two or three. So far so good, I'm missing him, you see. Soon it's a week, Then a few days more. Now I'm watching the phone And watching the door. A week turns to two Sometimes to three. No word for him yet, How fair can this be? I know in my head Sometimes you can't call, But my heart has it's own rules And it hurts - that's all. When I feel I can't stand it He walks through the door. I hear his voice, see his smile And worry no more. Everything said In that first wonderful kiss. Time stops, thought stops Lost in the love I did miss. In that moment I realize I can survive being alone "Cause my belov'd firefighter Has now returned home." I was trying to get some sewing done, but this darn poem kept DEMANDING that I stop and write it down. It is amazing how much it helps to write these. Thanks for reading them. Note: No, he has not called or returned home (yet). I was just writing down what it feels like, and remembering the last time he walked in the door. <G> Poet
8/24	There are no words for me to say about the deaths of the 8 FF in Oregon. I am literally sick to my stomach and will make this very short. There is a full news article on KREM.Com TV out of Spokane. There are no words that can comfort the families and co-workers of these wonderful young people. My prayers and thoughts are with them and I hope and pray these kids did not suffer......heartsick Sammi
8/24	To anybody and everybody, Thanks Nerd. BUT I need help. Read on: My Question is has anyone experienced this situation before? read on: My SO had a pretty good job working in a rock quarry. It did have its ups and downs just like any other job. And he was beginning to get burned out with it. BUT when he decided to pursue wildland firefighting, they (rock quarry) wouldn't let him off so he quit his job and moved on to Wildland FF. I support him every step of the way and then some. I have never told him he couldn't go do wildland firefighting. My SO loves going and fighting fire out west or where ever it takes him. To this day, my SO is afraid to get another job because he is afraid they won't let him off to go to a fire. His last employer wouldn't let him off because my SO didn't know how long he would be gone. He did tell them that he assumed it would be around two weeks or so. So he doesn't do much of anything during off season. He has taken some odd jobs before because our bills are piling up. He wont even attempt finding another job because he is determined to think that no one will work with him. I've told him in a nice way how does he know they wont work with him if he doesn't try? He claims he has tried but every thing was a bust. I feel like he didn't try hard enough. It is very very very very stressful that he wont even try to get another job (steady job) to help pay our bills that we made together. I'm not telling him to quit WFF just find something to pick up the slack when he is home. I feel he is lucky to get to go out when he can. I hate to see him go but the bills need to be paid and what right do I have to tell him he can't do WFF? I love my FF and wouldn't trade him for the world and I don't care what kind of job he has, just so it helps with the bills. I just wish he could see my side of this. The $-Keep in mind that both our money goes to the bills regardless. But when he hasn't worked and I am the only one with the income, we get behind on everything and there is a gap. I know if he had a steady job that when he leaves it would help to get his paycheck plus my paycheck to keep combining them, then while he is gone it would help on the bills and the gap wouldn't be so huge until he received his WFF check because my paycheck will still go in the bank just as his would. Help me!!! What can I do to make my FF understand the gap. I can't get over how great this website is I appreciate everyone that participates on this site. Yall are just like my family. Speaking of family: We had a family gathering today. My grandpa is another year older. He has been telling me about the time they lived in MT and visited ID and the surrounding areas. As for the rest of the family they have no clue about what it takes to be married or in some peoples case, involved with a WFF. If they only could experience the feeling of loneliness. Fire Wife, I ask my SO in a nice way and I don't think it bothers him to ask when he is coming home. I feel out of respect for us at home that they know we would ask them that very same question. Sometimes my SO knows and sometimes he doesn't. But when he does find out he tells me without me asking him. I will ask him that very question just so I know if it bothers my man. P.S. good question. Sorry so long guys. bambi
8/24	But, Poet, I have an observation... Though you may like your mother's version above your own, remember, it was you who brought it into being first. Based on that alone, I like yours best. It takes courage to give birth to a thought, a poem, a story. It may take an editor to improve it. But...you made it. You rock. Fire Momma
8/24	FireWife, Thanks for the insight on not asking when they will be home. I can see it from their side, being painful when you cannot give an answer, knowing your loved one is hurting to. (at least I am TRYING to see it from their side) I have asked that of my FF when he comes home for the few hours I get to see him, and I have felt guilty. I will just try to stick to "I look forward to when you can be home longer" or something like that. Thanks for the note on the poem, too. *blush* My mum critiqued my last one, and has rewritten it. Here is my mum's version: *** The Dragon it hungers. The Dragon it burns. For destruction only It appears that it yearns. As with the Phoenix, Both nature and man Will rise from the ashes As is the plan. Renewed, refreshed Under sky now so blue, Beloved firefighters, >From our hearts we thank you! *** I like hers better, don't you? >G< Poet
8/24	Re: The "Hungry Horse" fire. I'm sorry I wasn't able to read this before I left. And, perhaps you've all figured this out. But, sometimes, especially in the early days of a fire, it's referred to in terms of the area where it is located. In this case, the "Hungry Horse Fire" is actually part of the Beta Lake -Doris Ridge fire on the Flathead National Forest. Today's sit report reads like this: (This is in the Northern Area Large Fires Sit Report section) "BETA LAKE - DORIS RIDGE, Flathead National Forest. A Type 1 Incident Management Team (Ferguson) is assigned. These fires are in timber, five miles south of Hungry Horse, MT. The fires are in close proximity to the Hungry Horse Dam, recreational and communication facilities and powerlines. Fire behavior was minimal due to some precipitation received. Fire size was reduced due to better estimates." You can download the Sit Report (National Fire Situation Report) at the following url: http://www.nifc.gov/news/sitreprt.pdf. It's updated usually by 5 a.m. each morning. I'm going out to mow the lawn and clean out the chicken coop before I can sit down for a nice juicy post and more pics. Probably this evening with a glass of wine. But, before I go...Southern...I was just leaving the Columbia River Basin headed to the Idaho Panhandle, grinding through the miles (listening to a particularly "country" Country & Western radio station) when I found myself worrying that I had offended you with the "y'all" comment. Just want to let you know I think "y'all" is one hell'uva word. Extremely useful...and I love it. Ciao, Fire Momma We have a link to the national sit report on the links page under news and also have links to the regional sit reports. We prefer the html version when available, as it loads more quickly on smaller, slower computer systems that we usually have in the field. PDF files can be ugly monsters if you're out of the office on a slow dialup. Ab.
8/24	Poet... Like everyone else who has posted about it, I loved the poem you wrote. I printed it out and have it hanging above our desk. Keep posting them!! I learned something the other night from my FF... When the guys are on a fire the one thing they hate more than anything is to be asked "when are you coming home!!" I always ask it because when my husband leaves he usually doesn't know when he will be home again. It could be a few days to a couple weeks. He usually doesn't leave with a specific date in mind. I guess I will have to be more careful when asking questions. Thanks... FireWife That doesn't seem like an unreasonable question so long as you ask it for information and not in a "clingy" or "needy" way. Sometimes we won't know the answer, but I never minded that question. Ab.
8/24	Poet: Here’s my shot at answering your questions: 1. Fire season is over when it’s over. I’m in northern New Mexico, and we’ve transitioned from monsoons and dry lightning to actual wetting rains, so our season is fairly well over…but our season also got rolling in February, with a hiatus for the snows in April and May. Basically, fire season is over when temperatures stop getting above the seventies and humidities stop dropping below about fifty percent…but that will vary from place to place for any number of reasons. Here, we also expect sort of spike when people start firing up their woodstoves…more structure fires, with the potential to cross the urban-wildland interface and get out into the woods. And we almost never get humidities above fifty percent. If you have the information, check a fire weather report for a number called Probability of Ignition, or POI. A POI above 70% is a “Watch Out condition…that’s when you get extreme fire behavior such as running and torching (running is when a fire makes sudden, fast movements and can jump containment lines; torching with when trees go up all at once…just rush, crackle, and no more tree). If you start seeing consistent POIs below about forty percent, at the hottest part of the day, at least by New Mexican standards, no more fire season. Down in southern New Mexico, which is more of where I’m from, the season kicks up in April and May and again ends with the wetting rains in August. In California, the season can go from March to November, but that’s pretty extraordinary. It can also vary a lot from year to year. El Niño makes a huge difference, so can a drought year. Fuel moisture content is huge; the reason our season got going so early was because we’ve had a long drought and our thousand-hour fuels (that means trees and big logs) had basically no moisture in them at all. I’m not totally sure what the predictions are for this year…in our area our chief was predicting a late season because of the late snows…we were figuring that the lush spring growth would dry and then go woof in July and August, which didn’t happen, fortunately…we got the wetting rains early enough that we just got a few lightning strikes that stuck around and nothing that ran. 2. In my part of the world, we get a lot of fire folks who work the ski areas in the winter…ski patrol for those with medical training, making snow, running lifts. Some just live frugally over the winter, not doing much. There’s a lot of seasonal work that picks up in ski towns during the winter…ambulance services, various retail and service industries. Waiting tables, bagging groceries, renting and guiding snowmobiles, hunters, cross-country skiers. There’s a lot of training that happens over the off season, too. I’m a vollie; I do this in addition to my ‘real’ job. I plan to train a lot this winter; get my classroom work together so I can do more next season. I also run with an ambulance service and structure fire department; we’re expecting that side of things to pick up as more people light their fireplaces and stoves and find out what took up residence in the chimney over the summer, and what ate the wires in their fancy ski chalet. More people losing it on the roads and the slopes too. Spring and fall, the times between snow and fire, are the lean and hungry seasons. 3. No clue. I’d just sit down and compare coverage maps carefully. Satellite phones are getting cheaper, but I’ve never seen one in or around a fire camp. Bambi: Told ya. It’s good to hear you happy. TazGirl: Kick her into next week. We’re rooting for ya. Montana Mom: (laughing) Can I put you in contact with my mom? She could use a few pointers. Nerd on the Fireline (delighted with all of you)
8/24	Thank you to Bambi and Heli Groupie for responding to me, both for the "OK" on posting poetry and the answers to my questions. Bambi, I not only write, but paint Acrylics (sunsets mostly), sew, take LOTS of community education classes, read, and cry on my Mom's shoulder when needed. <G> Keeping busy is definitely one of the best ways I have found to keep from going nuts. I am also very lucky in that I have a very good support system in both family and friends to help me cope with the "in-between times." (this list has helped as well)! I am glad to hear that the fire season is almost over. Whoo HOOO! Thanks for the info on the cell phone coverage. I am definitely looking into one for the both of us, even if the coverage is spotty. Just knowing that there is a possible way to contact me if the coverage is there helps ease the mind. Every little bit helps. Thanks again to all of you for the support you have shown. I hope over time my grammar and spelling will catch up with my need to write. Here is another short poem: The Dragon it hungers. The Dragon it burns. For destruction only It appears that it yearns. The Phoenix (both nature and man) >From the ashes, rise anew. Help this, you have, beloved firefighters And for that we thank you!
8/24	Dear all, I just stepped in my front door and want to tell you I thought about many of you over the past week. I still have to unpack, and get my bearings...at which time I'll read over the week's posts...and post some myself with fire photos. After 2200 miles, four states, three geographical regions, asundry fires, many grouchy, tired firefighters...I need to catch my breath. A piece of advice, as I know many of you are wondering about how you can help your SOs... With the fires running on, and on...the cold nights, both rain AND sweltering heat, stifling smoke and blowing dust, dirt and ash, dining with the hordes, sleeping on the ground, etc., most everyone I talked to (not just my fallers, but agency firefighters, fire overhead, camp support, etc.) is feeling lousy in one way or another. Lots of sore throats, fevers, runny noses, clogged lungs....Here's the advice...if you are planning to anyway, send care packages with vitamin C or anything to boost their immune systems. (It's available in camp, but lots of them either don't know it, or won't take the time to go get it...) If they're grouchy, understand they're probably feeling wiped out. Encourage them to pay attention to their health. Hey, I missed this place and you guys! Fire Momma
8/24	>>me thinks Heli Groupie and FireMomma have offered the best real time advice to the stay-at-home-worrying folk who read FS. others posted similar advice months ago knowing the Dragon was in early season playful mode. subsequently several other USFS, BLM, state, etc. FFs posted advice dealing with family or SO situations; they are most likely too busy to comment now. The time to rehash details is after the rains and snows come to wildland and everyone is well rested, and had time to lower adrenaline levels, and hopefully put things in perspective before becoming an arm chair quarterback. If it makes anyone feel better, this week I rec'd a one line email from my daughter; haven't heard a word from the males in this family... after 10+ yrs of wildland fire gypsy, I realize they are too busy. if your SO is IA on this epidemic of blow up fires in wildland territory, they are running ragged = now is not the time to expect a phone call or sweet words (even if they are on the road to a new fire, no stop for eats or gas has enuff phone booths for an entire crew to use even if the lone one is in working order). keep the faith. TO ALL THOSE ON THE LINE: BE SAFE! prayers for safe returns for all! NZ Mom
8/24	Poet I don't know if this will answer your questions or not, but hopefully this will help. We live in Montana and since I'm relatively new to this also I don't know if my situation is the norm or if I'm just stuck with a workaholic (or both), but for us fire season is never really over. It just slows down. In the fall and winter months, my guy takes on prescribed burn assignments and then there are all the classes he takes getting ready for the next summer season. So he's pretty much on the road all year. It's just that he's not gone as long or as much as in the spring and summer. I'd say normally (of course these past few years have been anything but normal) fire season usually runs from late June to early September sometimes later. (Someone jump in here if I'm wrong - I'm going by memory when we last had a normal fire season). Last year, I know they were still fighting fires well into October because of lack of snow. I remember he even got called out in the winter to fight a small local fire. What do they do in off months? Chomp at the bit waiting for signs of dry lightning! I'd have to say spring has got to be the worse season I know. He's grumpy, anxious and you can see that glint of gold & red reflected in his eyes as you're trying to hold a conversation with him, and you know he hasn't heard a word you said because he's thinking about fire season starting! As for cell coverage...around here the general consensus seems to be CellularOne. Almost everyone I know is signed up with them because they seem to have the best coverage and the least holes. Also, you can get a 16 state plan (most of the western states) so that you don't pay roaming when you're in another state. There is also Verizon - they are probably the second choice around here and then there is a company called 3 Rivers Wireless - I don't know much about them and how there coverage is outside of our area. There are quite a few people that I know who are signed up with them. A friend of mine in Idaho is signed up with Qwest but can't use her cell where I live because we don't have that service available in my area. So when you do call a company to sign up, I'd suggest you ask for specifics about where their coverage is, or you may find out after all that the phone still doesn't work. Lastly, speaking for myself...you bet you can post poetry! I really enjoyed the first one you posted. I should have said something earlier. Anyway, I hope I helped out. Take care everyone! Hey, by the way has anyone heard from FireMomma? She hasn't posted for a while so I was just curious. Heli Groupie
8/24	Poet, I like the poem you posted on 8/20. It is so true. I would also like to know the answers to your questions posted on 8/23. When my SO went out on a crew for the first time to Utah, I was terrible. I cried like a baby because that was the first time we had been apart for a long period of time since we had been married in 93'. We do everything together. I wouldn't even stay in our house because everything I looked at reminded me of him. Yes I went to my parents house until he came back. My parents decided to get me involved in something. I taught myself to paint. That very night I painted a jar for the first time and it turned out pretty good. Everyone was as impressed as much as I was. I have always wanted to paint but never had until then. I was so wrapped up in painting that I lost track of time. Painting also took my mind off of worrying about my hubby and had me concentrating on the painting at hand. I sat for 3 to 4 hours painting that one jar. Talk about passing time. I really enjoy painting because its fun. Anyone can do it if I can do it. Hints: I use acrylic paint on any glass jar and terra-cotta pots (this is the most fun). The paint only costs around $0.44 for a 2 fluid oz. (trust me it goes a long way). Play with the paint to get a feel of it. I used a paper plate to learn on. Daisies are my favorite to paint. Just a note for all of you that has a SO out on the fire and away from home. When my SO calls me I always let him hang up first. I made a mistake of hanging up first one time and I heard him talking right before I turned my cell off. I felt awful, especially after I realized what I had done. That is why I let him hang up first. If your So is out firefighting, find a hobby to keep you busy. It WILL pass the time and you wont worry as much. good luck finding that hobby. bambi
8/23	Hey Everyone and Tonya, Im on cloud nine. My SO called me this morning. He sounds tired. He has a scratch on his finger that is getting infected, so he is going to get it fixed up this morning. The reason he hasn't been able to call me is because people have been talking over their allowed time of five minutes. Which is leading to fights at the phone. He told me that they pulled the crew off the line last evening because of rain AND its still raining this morning. yippie. It took him a week to call me. I think I handled it very well. I was just glad to hear his voice. I think it helped me knowing that he was wanting to talk to me last night and he didn't. I could tell he missed me from the sound of his voice. I hope for those of you that still haven't heard from your SO you get to talk to them soon. Good luck with the communication system. Well until later. bambi
8/23	Once again I want to say how much I appreciate the list here. It has really helped me cope with my SO being gone. It helps sooo much to know that there are others out there dealing with the same stuff. Just thinking that I have only been dealing with this for a few months and some of you have been dealing with this for YEARS. wow I have a few more questions: 1) When exactly is the fire season over? (When does it start, too) 2) What the heck do these guys (and gals) do in the off months? 3) What cell phone company do you all recommend for communicating with my HS? And lastly, is it OK that I post poetry? That is one of the ways I cope, I write and do poetry. Don't know if any of you are interested in the stuff, but I have LOTS of it. "Poet"
8/22	Wow.....Montana mom..... I thought I was the only one that has calls like that. And it never fails they get home and something will come up and someone will say.. "but mom said" ..... no I didn't..... you just imagined my part of the conversation behind the hissing and crackling on your cell phone. I can picture all these hundreds of people dressed in yellow shirts on top of mountains with little bitty cell phones to their ears and they are all turning in little circles as they try to get a better connection. I spend more time saying "are you there? are you there?" then we do actually talking. I have had calls like that and I'll ask where are you and they are at some Safeway........ well why didn't you use the payphone? "never thought of that" and who raised you??????? even the disjointed cell phones calls are better than no call...... aren't they...... sammi
8/22	Hey guys. Just wanted to shoot off a quick e-mail to tell everyone to have a good weekend. I have a big roller derby game on Sunday so everyone wish me some good luck!!! We're playing the Hustlers and we are both undefeated. I'm playing this woman that I swear she is bionic. Yikes... My FF's days off are coming up and although I won't get to see him, I'm at least excited about having long talks on the phone when he isn't exhausted. Funny how low my expectations have become for now.... Oh well. That's what you get for dating a HS right? Take care, TazGirl
8/22	Thanks Paula for the sensible calming advice for FF families and friends about the hectic schedules on these fires in the Northern Rockies. Worry does no one good, positive thinking just might help. When a thought of my son crosses the old brain pan I try to immediately relax, breathe, and sBE love just in case he's listening. I heard from him from somewhere outside of Missoula the other night on a terrible cell phone connection. It was a fun if interrupted chat. FF: Hey mom! Why'd you ...message ... dispatch? Mom: Four reasons. 1, U of M accepted your transfer and is delaying registration for FFs. FF: Huh. Mom: 2, your roomie ISN'T detoured to Iraq for three years and is ready to go Plan A. FF: What? . . . crackle crackle ...Holy cow! Mom: 3, you have a great apartment waiting a few blocks from campus. FF: Oh man, what? . . . crackle...You kidding? Geez . . . #%# That's great. Mom: ...(love interest news--good) FF: (Laugh, screech, cuss, laugh.) Where can I call you Tuesday? I gotta think about this. SO, I'm glad when we can talk, but it's gotta be short and sweet!!! Good luck everyone, snow's on its way. I can't remember a September that didn't have a good snow in the mountains the first or second weekend. Montana Mom
8/22	Great fire coverage of Montana fires and FF's in Missoulian paper and check out their wildfire photo gallery. www.missoulian.com/ Another Montana Mom
8/22	Bambi... Thanks for the support... My husband is home now and last night we did talk about why I was mad. We went this am before work and looked at a house to rent together... I am still thinking about the cell phone... I need to call this morning and see what it would cost on top of mine... Plus if we need a new contract and things... But he got on this morning and read all my posts and he asked me if I had gotten him a phone.. *LAUGHS* I told him I was checking into it... And just so you know MT has a lot of empty spaces where cell phones don't work... I hope you hear from your SO soon... FireWife
8/22	The SIT Report seems to get longer every day. Thoughts and prayers to family and friends of loved ones on the fires. My hubby is in western Montana and unlike at the beginning of our marriage eighteen years ago, I hear from him via cell phone. Unfortunately, my sister and her family are in Missoula spending their summer indoors out of the smoke. A local rural newspaper (not available via the web) had an article about Bush's plan for "competitive outsourcing" for vehicle maintenance, communications, etc. by contracted personnel bidding for the jobs currently held by permanent USFS employees. Rural communities across the US will lose thousands of USFS jobs that provide retirement and family health insurance benefits. The article said the contractors travel around. I would not be comfortable with someone out of the FS family working on my husband's fire engine before it is dispatched. What would the employees have to lose except that contract? At least FS employees have to go through a hiring process, are susceptible to substance-abuse testing, and have the opportunity to support a family in a rural area. I hope that the emphasis on achieving "portal to portal" pay (which is significantly important to several employees) does not overshadow the importance to fight the "competitive outsourcing" plan or at least have it be stringent enough to provide safety for all the USFS employees it will affect as well as all the ones it will put out of work. Whatever your opinion is, contact your local representatives and let them know it. Elaine
8/22	Tonya, I am originally from CO but I am an RMWC alum (2002). I wouldn't be surprised if your friend knew or knows of me (depending on what year she is). I was pretty active on campus and my reputation had a tendency to proceed me. But I don’t live in VA anymore. FireChica Those "boots" were made for stompin' or at least raisin' hell? Ab.
8/22	You guys have made me cry again. It is so good to know I AM NOT ALONE. I started new job while my FF has been away. One I really wanted, but with some very unexpected extras. I have had the week from Hell! Last week I splashed bleach in my eye and was in the emergency room. The little one was not too happy about seeing Mommy in pain and getting her eye washed at the emergency room, to top it off someone hit our mail box and broke it clean it two...the thing was made out of old railroad ties!....anyway..... Worried, my FF was on the Crazy Horse about the same time as yours. Shortly after that they got moved to the Little Salmon Complex (fires that FS is letting natural burn). The phone situation there is terrible. We have managed 5 min. on a pay phone and 2 fuzzy min. on a cell. Perhaps your FF is there. Well tomorrow when things go from good to bad to worse I'll remember you all and look forward to coming home and spending time with you. Hoosier
8/22	Fire Wife, I think your SO will appreciate his phone. Just keep in mind that not all places have cell service. I have been lucky hearing from my SO. He has been to Texas (space shuttle recovery), Utah, New Mexico, Idaho, and now Montana fire fighting. I think I have listed them all. Sometimes he has service and sometimes he doesn't. He is in Montana and he must be in a hole somewhere because I haven't heard from him since this past Saturday. Im hanging in there and you do the same. Make sure you get a cell plan that is great for you. I live in Virginia and we are on the 12 state plan. we have thought about the national plan but we decided that It wasn't worth paying the money not knowing how much he would be going out west to fight fire. Good luck finding a plan that is right for you. bambi
8/21	Ab, I was reading the Family said and Tonya said that our SO's might could be on the same fire I would like to get in touch with her. She said that I could get her email addy from Ab. I will try the refresh button before I go off line. Thank you for this web site. Its wonderful. Fire Wife, I hope you can work it all out with your SO. After my SO went to ID a couple of weeks ago and the thoughts of something happening to him scared me up. Especially knowing that after he had called me that those two heroic firefighters died. But I try to remember if it wasn't for our fire crews on these BIG fires then who would do it? My SO loves firefighting and going on these crews. I have fought with him in the past on the phone and today I get ill that he hasnt called. BUT I cant get mad knowing he is huffing and puffing up and down those steep mountains. I hope you work it out when he calls again. My point is that you never know when it is your time to go. I keep thinking about what I read on 8/4 and I don't want my husband remembering our fight. I want him to know how much I love him and appreciate him. Good luck on the house hunt. oh and im sure your SO will love that you got the phone. sorry Its so long. Nerd, Thanks for the input about the Kleenex fund. I had a big laugh. I've done pretty good this time around about keeping it together. The more he goes out, the easier it gets. He went to the crystal creek fire in ID then came home a week then left and went to the crazy horse fire, MT. It is hard on him if he sees me cry so I try not to cry in front of him. I cried when he left for ID but he didn't see me BUT everybody at the airport did. I try to keep myself busy. from: bambi Bambi, I forwarded the e-mail from Tonya to your hotmail account. You can e-mail her directly. She says so. Ab.
8/21	Hi Ab, I'm running the information center for the Northern Rockies geographic area and we get calls and e-mails from families of firefighters active on Montana and Northern Idaho fires who are wondering where their family members are. Right now we have more than 75 large fires burning and 13,750 folks working on firefighting or support across the geographic area. It's a huge and efficient machine that moves resources to the area of greatest need. Therefore, it's difficult for us to get a non-emergency message to individuals. Another complicating factor for the firefighters is that calling home is often not possible early on in fires. Cell phone coverage is sparse and often fleeting in mountainous country. Having capacity to recharge a phone may be difficult. In addition, we try to get phones set up in our fire camps but there are limitations on where phone service is available, phone companies may be strapped for enough crews to make this happen quickly when there are so many fires burning. And, often crewmembers are so tired after a series of long shifts that their priority has to become getting set up, re-tooled, fed and sleep. And they might get sent to yet another camp the next day. Of course some of the crews end up in spike camps. The reason I write is that I know the good information you and the gang share on the They Said and Family Said pages and I know how stressful it can be for the family members left behind. I'm hoping you can once again share with concerned family members that at best, communications are slim and it would probably help the families not to expect communications...but to be happy if they get called. For those interested in fires in the northern geographic area (Northern Idaho, Montana and North Dakota), we have a website with all the large fire summaries we update 3 times a day at www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire/2003fires/index.shtml. This does not have crew information but at least families can keep track of the latest fire movement. I hope that helps folks out. Paula Thanks very much for writing in Paula. This crew is good support for each other and they've gotten some good pointers from dispatchers and others. The mom who was trying to get a message to her son to call UM got the message to him, thanks to everyone's help. Ab.
8/21	Hey everyone! I've been lurking the last week or so, since I've not had too much to report or comment on. Since I'm thoroughly addicted to this place now, I can't help getting online almost everyday just to see how everyone is doing. My feelings go out to all of you who are so far away from the fires and your SO's, it is so frustrating when decisions have to be made and your guy/girl is not there. Normally I'd be in the same situation (and have been fairly recently), but life saw fit to throw me a curve and I thought I'd share it with you - maybe it will give some of you a laugh! Just when I was finally coming to grips with this 14 days on/2 off thing, and taking everyone's advice to get myself busy and preoccupied, guess who shows up? That's right. My SO. Totally unannounced! Calls and says he'll be home in about 15 minutes. Now generally this wouldn't be a problem, but I had decided that I would start a project when he left (a surprise gift for him) to keep myself busy. I'd been working on it non-stop since he'd left, so the house was a total zone. And the surprise was sitting right out in the middle of the mess, too big to hide! So... long story short, he saw his surprise before it was done and then gave me s_ _ _, for the house being in the condition it was! Oh well...What can I say? I'm just a slob at heart! It was pretty funny to see me doing the mad dash around the house to get things picked up before he made it home! I think I threw a bunch of clean clothes in the hamper along with the dirty ones, I'm not sure. Those fifteen minutes were kind of a blur! On the up side it was great to have that empty spot in the bed filled even if it was for just one night. Got to go for now! As my friend from Scotland always says...Keep your pecker up! (that's Scottish slang for Keep a stiff upper lip). It used to crack me up when he'd say this to me! Heli Groupie
8/21	Sammi: The air filters should help with the particulate part of fire smoke, but if the smoke gets thick enough that you’re getting CO, they won’t help with that. On the circulating list idea…there are already a few of us who have exchanged direct e-mails and addresses…Ab was very nice about forwarding the first direct e-mails and we’ve taken it from there. I’d have no problem with putting up a brief bio etc, but I would like to second Sammi’s caution about getting too specific with personal data: I’d suggest no names, no locations more specific than a region (i.e. Northern California, Central New Mexico, Eastern Washington), no crew names, and no easily trackable lines of work (If I told you what I do for a living and my company name, a moderately resourceful person could turn up on my doorstep…and I don’t like that idea). TazGirl: I hate jogging with a passion too…I’ve got squirrly ankles which makes jogging just an awful experience. I found that once I got into a good exercise regime it made me feel really good…especially when I was alternating aerobic and weight training. Nerd on the Fireline
8/21	I think the circling list is a great idea....there are lots of times I think about privately writing people but just don't want to bother ab's or whatever. I am being really bad today suppose to be working but am a bit scattered so what do I do....well monitor fires of course.....and send in mail from the office computer (not govt, glad my e-mail address is protected, right Ab's?) I have a question maybe someone has info: does anyone know anything about the home/office air filters? if I bought one for home and one for office would that help with the fire smoke? sammi
8/21	Thanks for the encouragement Nerd. I think I worry about telling him just for the same reasons that you were talking about...just not wanting him to think that I'm doing it to follow him around or something. I mean, I know full well that going into fire next season would mean I would see him barely more than I do now. So I went on my first walking/running routine yesterday. I did what I think it was FireChica was saying...the 15 minute mile, walking briskly. And that's exactly how long it took me, 15 minutes, no more, no less. Then I walked another qtr. mile and then jogged the last 3/4. Jogged!! I haven't jogged in years because generally, I hate it. But you know, it wasn't all that bad and didn't wear me out as much as it used to. Then when the dog and I got back to the house, I did 100 crunches and 20 "man" sit-ups. Whew! Felt so good to get out there and do something! It's not that I'm inactive. I'm in pretty good shape actually. But I never do stuff that I make myself do. It's always a class I take or roller derby where I have to show up. So the self-discipline factor made me feel just as good as the workout. And I'm starting an exercise journal too. I'm excited... Hope I can stick w/ it. I told my FF last night and he was very encouraging as well. It's funny the difference in talking to him at night as opposed to morning. He is so dog tired and exhausted at night that he barely participates in the conversation, which he fully acknowledges. But I don't really mind and don't harp him about it because I know it's not personal and because he really is just that tired. It can be disappointing but I just remind myself that he calls twice a day when his cell works, and that effort alone says a lot. I'm trying to decide if I should tell him on his days off about my idea of dispatching next season. Or if I should just wait until I've really made up my mind. I think I'll at least throw it out there and let him know I'm considering it. Do some of you live in/around Missoula, MT? I'm looking for a place to settle after moving from Austin and that is one of the places I'm looking at. It looks like they have a great University from what I can tell and I might want to go there for post-bachelor school...as yet undecided. It seems like a really great place in general w/ a lot to offer. Are the people nice, open, friendly? That is of huge importance to me. I haven't found any place so far to be as friendly as Austin. Any info. on Missoula would be appreciated. Everyone hang in there. Fire season will be over soon enough and then we can get on this message board during the winter and complain that our FF's are driving us crazy. :) TazGirl
8/21	I know exactly what you guys are talking about as far as when they call, maybe I need to vent or need support and he rambles about the fire. I hadn't heard from my 'old man" for several days and he called last night. Well, day before yesterday I had the day from hell. anyway....for 20 min (he was not in camp) I listened to fire talk...and lots of instructions on what needed to be paid and who I needed to call for him....then about 30 seconds before our time was up he says "how are things?' My weak little answer was "ok, everythings fine" .I never unload on him because I want him concentrating on his self and the fire, for safety. We have been married forever, have kids on the fire lines and grandkids so we are not young inexperienced at this fire relationship stuff and we still have those burps where I get off the phone all teary and just wanting a hug. And he goes right back to his fire and doesn't have a clue. I have found that if I call one of our daughters or a close friend right after one of these calls from him, I vent on them and they know me well enough to just listen and then I really am ok. I find I just need to spout and release the emotions and then I can be rational again. I know we are all super strong independent women (and men) or our FF would not have been attracted to us. They need SO's that are ok when we have the day from hell........and just from talking to you guys I know you fit that description. Is it easy NO!!!! Are they worth it? Yea!!!!!!!! sammi......who really is rational most of the time FYI: if you go to the wffoundation.org that is the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. They have lapel pins with FF Logo that is $5.00. The money is for assistance to FF etc....I have one of the ribbon pins and wear it on the collar of my denim jacket. I am ordering the Ring Of Fire Pin today they are really nice pins. <Check the store. The pin creator is a theysaid contributor!> Followup post re identities: I support the communication and introductions for the Family list and I think that is a possible way for some of the list to have a huge support system. But, it would be totally voluntary. Not to try and be secretive but some of us cannot let our identities be known for several reasons. (and the Abs have gone way beyond the extra mile to protect us in that area, sort of like the Fire Secret Witness protection) so my vote says yes......with the suggestion you be careful because we are open and on the net and anyone reading these posts knows your guy is not with you.....cautious sammi here Maybe there could be a list that is more-or-less private to the participants and that circles behind the scenes and not on familysaid. I'd be happy to facilitate that if you like. When you write in with identity, you could say how public/private you want the info to be. I'd be willing to email the final list out to the regular familysaid posters. It could be updated every 2 weeks if the readership grows. Ab.
8/21	Fire Chica, I'm a junior at Roanoke College. But my best friend goes to RMWC. I haven't even asked where you are from, I've been a little slow to get to know everyone. Do you go to RMWC? If so, it is strange to know that I've found 2 more VA people on this site today. Hey Ab, Do you think we could possibly do a sort of roll call on the Family Said board? Maybe to find out where everyone is from, their ages, and their relationship to fire. It may have already been done, but I've seen lots of new names lately. And being new myself it would let me know of others who are actually living nearby. Thanks, Tonya
8/21	TazGirl; It's so cool to hear that you're really pursuing this fire madness (smile)...I just wanted to drop a quick note of encouragement, and to ask why you're worried about a negative reaction from your FF...he should be incredibly flattered that his love for fire has sparked your interest too. I remember when I first decided that fire was something I wanted to do...I was scared to tell my FF (at the time) because I was worried that he'd think I was being presumptuous...a wanna-be tanker kitten or fire groupie. In retrospect, though, I think any guy worth the effort would have enough respect for me to take my interest seriously. Worried Wife, FireWife, Please hang in there....please understand that here in the remote, rural West, communication can be very difficult. Four phones in a fire camp is not very many, and lack of cell phone coverage is the rule rather than the exception in many areas. Four days is not a long time; they could easily be spiked out for that long. Hang in there, buy yourself an ice cream cone, keep smiling. A friend of mine recently suggested a great method for keeping it together: the Kleenex fund. Every time you really, really want to have a crying jag and you fight it off, put the cost of a box of Kleenex in a jar. Let it build up, then use the money to buy yourself a treat; a nice dinner, a banana split, something nice. My friend collects angels; she gets a new angel with her Kleenex money. Nerd on the Fireline
8/21	Bambi, My SO is on a VA <snip> crew on the Crazy Horse. I've spoken with him several times, however the lines are very long to use the phones. The last call I received was yesterday at 1 AM VA time. He said that the lines weren't very long then (about 7 people), but there apparently were some problems with people taking longer than their 5 minutes and a fight broke out at the phones. Leading to security there to keep the peace. Also, if you're not checking the SACC site for the crew reports, they are updated daily. You can get my email addy from Ab if you want to get in touch, our guys may be close to one another or even on the same crew. Also, I hope to continue to hear from my FF and I will ask him about your husband if you want me to. Good luck to all of you... Tonya Tonya and Fire wife in VA, Bambi your SOs are on the same crew! Had to go back and look at the snips. Send in an e-mail and I can put you in touch if you like. Ab.
8/21	Tonya, You don't go to RMWC do you? That would be a crazy coincidence . . . FireChica
8/21	Hi everyone!! Worried Wife in VA... thanks for bringing up the archives... I actually have a few minutes to myself so I read the one you mentioned.... Old R5er... that is too true... My husband and I did fight on the phone tonight... I am so frustrated and I had to vent... I never mean to fight with him when he is gone but I do... not knowing when he will be home and only having a short time to talk doesn't make it easier... I am going to go downtown tomorrow and try to get him a cell phone... We are trying to move into a house and I want his input on the one I found.... We need to decide soon so I can let them know if we want it or not... He never has time to discuss it though... But it isn't a decision I want to make alone.... Then I know something will be wrong... So I decided it will have to wait... Thanks for listening.. I know it is long!! FireWife
8/21	Hello to all out there sitting at home patiently waiting for their FF SO's. Have I mentioned lately how much I love this message board. I check it sooo many times a day at work and am always happy to see new posts. Glad to see we have some new joiners. Welcome. Thanks for all the advice regarding training, especially Nerd and FireChica. I am going out today to do that brisk walk. I'm going to start on the daily sit-ups and crunches too. I'm pretty strong and would really like to realize my full potential. The pack and the sledge hammer might take a while to materialize. I'm excited though. I'm still heavily leaning towards dispatching though. I got an encouraging e-mail from a guy w/ the Alaska BLM that I had e-mailed earlier. He was really nice and suggested the D-110. I told him I was going to try and take the S130/190 and he said that was a great idea. The D-110 here in Tx will be near impossible for me to get off of work to take. Hopefully I can find somewhere else to take it later. He said that they are always in need of good dispatchers and they are always in short supply and that it was something good to get into. I'm excited. Wonder when I should tell my FF what my crazy plans are. Can't wait to hear his reaction...good or bad. He is on the Withington fire in Idaho. His days off are coming up soon and I sooo wish I would be in SLC again to spend them with him. Oh well right? He apparently is pretty discouraged w/ some of the scene and has mentioned quitting. Hope he hangs in there. He needs the money no matter how badly I want to see him. Thank heavens for cellphones!!! I have been able to talk to him almost daily. Sometimes he even calls to say hello in the morning and then at night too. What a luxury. Southern Loving, I want to pose this question to you again because I am so curious. Since you don't work with a crew, are you isolated bumping around from fire to fire alone? Do you have to travel alone? Just curious. It will be hard enough w/ it being my first season, I mean, a little intimidating, so I was wondering about the alone issue. Just really curious about the logistics since you're not w/ a crew. I have found less information about dispatching than any other position in fire it seems. Everyone take care and hang in there. Hey, at least it's not 105 degrees and humid as hell like it is in Texas. Thank your lucky stars for that. Oh and Nerd, that dispatch quote was hilarious!! Poet, the poem was great too. TazGirl
8/20	It's about 7pm Wed here and I just got a call from one of my kids. They are assigned to the east side of the Mineral Primm Fire northeast of Missoula, Montana. Rattlesnake Wilderness. They are assigned with the Redding Shots. if anyone is looking for them. I asked if the phones were ready in camp and they said no....not yet. All the fires over there are in such remote area with dangerous terrain. they said it was work, eat, sleep. That's it. Fire is about 5% contained which means not much....... again today we are socked in with the smoke. There are lots of people having asthma start up and most everyone I see has runny noses and watery eyes. Wonder if we should start wearing red bandanas.......sammi
8/20	Everyone, Has anyone else heard from their SO (the crew VA <snip>) from the Crazy Horse Fire, MT since Saturday, August 16, 2003? My husband is on the Crazy Horse Fire and I was wondering why he hasn't called me. I haven't heard from him since Saturday August 16, 2003. I know he is busy but he usually has called me by now. I am beginning to get really worried. I know if anything was bad wrong they would call me, but it helps to hear his voice. I know they have four phones at the camp. He also has a cell phone and I think he doesn't have service. He is on crew VA <snip>. Your input would help me a great deal. Old R5er, I read your article posted 8/4/03 on Family Said. It makes sense. You're right about the three rules to a good relationship. #-1 don't fight on the phone, #-2 don't fight on the phone, & #-3 don't fight on the phone. You were right about a lot of other things too. My husband has tried to get me to take the training to go out west with him. I just can't see me huffing and puffing up and down those steep and rugged mountains. Everything you said has hit home to me. Usually, I asked him to call me but this time, I didn't. I haven't heard from him since Saturday. Usually he calls me within a couple of days. Well it's been four days. When he doesn't call it really works on the mind. I think of the worst, then I think, well, he is tired, or there's a long line to the phone, or maybe he just doesn't want to call. But I know better than that. When he can call, he calls me or if he was hurt they would tell me. I just feel better hearing from him. enough of my sob story. Thanks for your story on 8/4/03. Thanks, Worried wife in VA, Bambi
8/20	Ab’s point about calling dispatch is a very good one…and one of the reasons why I suggested getting to know your dispatcher, rather than just calling cold. My crew gets dispatched out of two centers; our “local” dispatch, and a “central” dispatch. Central doesn’t really want to be called, probably doesn’t have a very good idea of where we are, and cares less; anybody calling them for information about us as a crew, much less as individuals, would be wasting their time and Central’s (in their defense they do a fairly good job under a punishing call load). On the other hand, our much more lightly loaded, much smaller-town local dispatchers are most likely bored, obsessively following our actions, and more than happy to exchange any and all information and/or gossip received. I recommend spending some time in your local dispatch office…it’s incredibly informative. Dispatch can be a crew’s guardian angel or our worst nightmare. A quote I saw on a dispatch office wall “You may know where you are, and God may know where you are, but if Dispatch doesn’t know where you are, well, you and God better be pretty good friends.” Nerd on the Fireline
8/20	Brother, Sister, Husband, Wife A firefighters path, journey, Life. A quiet dinner home. A call? A tear... A desire to keep our loved ones near. A risky life Our firefighters so brave. Our forests, our homes, Our lives they save. Each time they go out They toil and sweat. A thankless job sometimes, Dirty, grimy and wet. A job to be done. A goal has been set. To beat back the Dragon To stop him? YOU BET. To tame the Beast, This "Dragon of Fire" They will face danger Hour by hour. It's the satisfaction they get For the job they do And the love from us That carries them through. Extended families are found When on firefighting crews, Extensions of our own We share all scraps of news. For family supports us When their there and we're here. Family understands when Our loves ones aren't near. It is for US that they do this For US that they Care It is for US that they do what they do, Any place, any where. Support and Love them, That is what we can do. Until the moment they come home When we can finally say in person "I love you" "Poet"
8/19	The remark about getting to know your dispatcher is excellent as we have better communication with the crews. I know for my part everybody from members of the type 1 and type 2 teams to just our forest crew that goes out on assignment try to keep me informed of their whereabouts. They know if there is any emergency or I need to get a hold of them so they can get their time in on time, I can, and everybody from wives to girlfriends and boyfriends and parents have all my numbers from my home number to my personal cell. I do this because I would hope it would be done or me if I needed to get a hold of either my children or my FF. Just recently I was visiting my FF when he came out west to fight fires when my cell phone rang at three in the morning. It was a girlfriend that was very nervous about her boyfriend and just had to call to ask if I had heard from the crew. As a matter of fact the crewboss had called me that evening and told me they were spiked and it would be miss or hit to contact them. When I reassured her that he was okay she felt so much better. My FF however didn't. He teases me that he has 30 guys to compete with for my attention but he knows my heart belongs to him. He also informed me that my phone was to be turned off at night since we hadn't seen each other in 6 months and we have to take advantage of anytime we get together. I was getting ready to go see him in Oregon today but he got transferred to the Dakotas so it's closer for me so I am probably headed that way today. This will be the last trip out for him until he comes to see me in October. My assignment to Region 1 got canceled so I'm going to go enjoy him for a couple of days before he goes back to his home. Most dispatchers never complain if you call and ask them about your loved ones so never feel bad if you are worried or just lonely. I know as a dispatcher I sometimes worry about my FF (from a different region) and my child (on a different forest) and I call dispatch to get peace of mind. I hope you all get to see your loved ones soon. Southern Loving Not many dispatch centers have time to deal with anxious family members, especially in the fever of fires going gunneysack. Please call your firefighter's home unit first -- the emergency number they left you -- before calling dispatch. Ab.
8/19	Sammi.... Thanks for the glove idea!! We also have a 3 year old and that is where my problem lies. And right now she is at the stage where she wants to talk on the phone until someone wants to talk to her and then it is a 2 sec conversation. Today we went to the town where my husband is and I got to point out the smoke to her. And at walmart she was telling everyone who would listen that her daddy is out on a fire!! It was so cute. I am going to have her daddy do the keep an item for me till I get home!! We are hoping he will be home soon. To everyone else: glad to hear that everyone else's SOs are doing great. And to those who have SO's in MT... Hope they are enjoying the beauty around them, even with the fire!! FireWife
8/19	Hello everyone. I've missed you guys lately, I'm trying to get things running smoothly around here. But I have so much good news. I heard from my FF last night. It was the first time I've talked to him since 8/12. It was so good to hear his voice. He said that he is ready to come home, unfortunately his last work day is still a week away, 8/27. Which just happens to correspond with the day that I go back to school. I just had the most outrageous trip to the bookstore, I spent $421 yesterday on USED BOOKS! I still am missing 2 for the fall. My biology class requires 5 books. They had better hope that I learn something from them! I just wanted to scream! I am trying to figure out what I can do to pick him up...so far I don't know when to try to get off work, which is nearly impossible to do around here, or if I will be in class when he comes in. There is really no end. For those of you trying to track your FFs, if they are from the 13 southern states you can find crew listings that cover the fire, any injuries, morale, and even their assignments on the southern area coordination site. The IARRs for the southern region have to be the very best, last time they even gave details of the hotel and flights that the crews would be coming home on. www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/sacc/ go to the website then click on daily crew report at the bottom of the second group in the left column. Good luck finding your FFs. Tonya
8/19	That story about the glove is great! I have a tattoo of a dragon on my back and when I went to my FMO's house for dinner last week his grandson (three years old and heartbreakingly cute) got up on the chair behind me and was trying to pull my sports bra (I was wearing a tank top) out of the way so he could look at it. He kept saying excitedly "dragon! dragon!" It was really cute. Gotta wonder if he'll end up fighting fire someday . . . FireChica
8/19	Have been reading the posts for the last couple of weeks as I am new to all this also. My SO got sent to Montana on the 08/11/03 and I have been searching the internet to find out as much info as possible. I found a good site for the Montana/Idaho fires that lists the hotshot crews and what fire they are on, the date dispatched, etc. Of course this info could change day by day. However, when I talked to my SO for the first time since 08/13/03 last night he was still at the same fire and would be there alot longer. As I said this is all new to me and I am keeping busy, marking websites as favorites that have good info, etc. Fortunately the fire that he is on has its own incident page that keeps me updated. This is my first fire season and I'll definitely be ready to see rain, cold temps and snow headed our way!!! Heres the website: www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire/nrcc then click on Resource Status and it lists the hotshot crews and other crews. Hope this is helpful to some of the families out there! ddbbee
8/19	Well....from day one this list has been discussing how to keep up with the roving FF....and honestly there is no solid way. We all have our little habits that keep us in the loop as much as possible. Guarantee: if we came up with a solid plan the powers that be would change the whole picture the next day. I like the idea of anytime anyone related to or working with a member of a crew calls and passes the info along the line. We do that as a family,,,,sort of the phone tree thing. There have been nights when I have received calls from everyone in my family and then it will be days and no news as long as I don't see that uniform walking up my path I know it's been an ok day..... firewife: as far as the little ones....we have a three yr old in the family and she is soooo smitten with her dad she just sobs when he leaves with his packs. She knows now when the packs leave dad is going somewhere. He came up with the idea to give her something to "keep" for him till he gets back. So, he gave her one of his old gloves......I think her mom had a lot to do with this because her thinking was if Suzie (pseudo) loses one she can replace it with the match. Anyway, so far that is helping a lot. That glove is sucked on, chewed on, hauled around everywhere. I guess it's like a blankie to her. Mom was not exactly thrilled to have Suzie attached to the "glove from hell " going to church and around town but g'pa says,,,"be glad it wasn't a boot" . That would have been what he would have left with our kids......... I've mentioned this before but maybe it would help with the little ones.....put a large map of the "western" states up on the freezer...and keep marking or flagging where dad is or has been . I still do this for me....I also tape newspaper articles or pictures they bring back to my maps and at the end of season we have a journal of sorts....maybe if the kids are old enough they could be in charge of the maps etc..... Are you living close to other FF families or are you in more of a college town? I guess I am slow but it just dawned on me....we could all be in the same county.......anyway. FF families are a thousand light years away from "normal" families. They do not understand our lifestyles, but they do want the information we have and the exciting stories....and they (females) are soooooo taken with the FF macho image.....if they only knew the truth....keep smiling, take care of yourselves and try to get out and do something everyday even if it is to put them in the stroller and walk around the block..... sammi
8/19	Hello... Thank you Sammi for making feel like I am not the only one. I know I am not but sometimes it feels that way. Poet asked a good question in her last post. How do we go about tracking the crews. I know where my husband is right now but sometimes we don't know where they are. My only problem right now is in getting our daughter to understand where daddy is and why he can't come home at night. Our other daughter is too young to understand anything so that is nice but I know her time is coming. But by then she will have her big sister to help her understand. Sammi you said it was easier to handle when you know where he is and when he will be back. But that doesn't always happen that way and it really makes it hard to deal with. I don't have alot of friends here because everyone is in their little cliques already and we haven't been here long enough. I have tried to get into things and to make friends but people don't understand when you can't drop everything to go out. SO now I am focusing on my family and trying to finish school whenever I decide what I want to do. Anyway I am babbling again... Thanks for listening. FireWife
8/19	Hey Sammi… All my crewmates are off up north, but I’m down here holding the fort and attending to my ‘real’ job, so it’s lonely just now…I had a very long and animated conversation with my lizard last night…he’s quite attentive too, but he has the occasional tendency to get distracted by a moth. Poet… I think you’re a good candidate for the firefighter SO network we talked about earlier…get to know the SOs of the other guys on your FF’s crew…get a news network going so that if even one guy manages to call out, you’ll all find out where they are and what they’re doing. One of my buddies is doing helitack in Idaho right now…he got time to make one phone call, he called his mother, she called our EMS chief, who told the dispatcher, so as we trickled in to find out news and availability, we all got the news. If all else fails get to know the dispatcher…they generally know everything. Nerd on the Fireline
8/19	There's a MOM trying to get a message to her son that he needs to call the university where he's just been accepted. The back and forth happened on theysaid, but I thought you might be interested in COMT's information on sending an emergency message. Ab. Clarification for those needing to send an emergency message: As for getting messages to people on assignment. I work in communications and most messages of this type go thru commo and I have had to handle these situations. Get the message to the local dispatch office that assigned them. The way it works is that when a family emergency comes thru requiring return home (death in family, someone in emergency room in bad shape), the travel arrangements are sometimes made when the home dispatch is initially informed. (As far as I know this is for Federal personnel, I have not had to inform a contractor yet, so I am not sure what the procedure would be). When communications receives a family emergency message the established procedure (on some fire management teams, and if they have one) is to inform the human resource officer (this the touchy-feely person who looks out for the personal welfare and behavior of fire personnel) who then would arrange the best way to handle the situation. You can never tell what their reaction might be to receiving bad news and the human resource person will try to help as best they can. From personal experience the worst feeling is having the division supervisor pull you aside to hand deliver a message to you, with a driver there to take you back into camp. Anyway, usually there are established procedures to get a person home for such situations, or deliver an important message. So have your loved one leave the phone number to the dispatch office that assigned them just in case. COMT
8/18	J.....please do not feel we would get tired of your questions,,,,,,,never. The reason I mentioned the archives is mainly because the list changes and people come and go so you might find a better answer there. I am really not sure when Abs started this Family Said list. I think it was about 3 or 4 yrs ago. I had been getting in trouble on the They Said list (not really trouble) just annoyed a couple of people so Abs decided family needed their own list and here we are. The best summer yet, with more people and even some FF checking in...some of us do post to the "other list" sometimes and they are always nice to us. life is good. As far as chasing your FF and finding out where he is.....that is tough. Unless there is a web page for his outfit or some other source you probably are going to have to rely on him calling when he lands. They move around a lot...There are way more national forest pages than there have been in the past and also a lot of the fires are getting their own pages so maybe if we contacted the web page people responsible for the individual fires maybe we could talk them into adding info about the crews on the fires. We don't particularly need individual names just the names of the whole crew..... like Hotshot Crew Red... or Lakeside WT1.(water tender)...(not a real name) just a thought. By the way, the fish I bought yesterday were waiting for me to get home this pm and were just thrilled to see me. I told them all my adventures thru the day and they just floated around and were so attentive. yep I'm losing it....now I'm talking to fish. have a good night and stay safe sammi As this Ab recalls, you and others were writing in with good questions and there seemed to be a need for family members and firefighters to talk on some parallel threads, so we decided to provide the familysaid forum. I don't recall you being annoying. Ab.
8/18	Wow, I am impressed that you posted my e-mail so quickly. Thank you all for the nice welcome! I will read the entire archive as soon as possible, and try to head off repeat questions you have all heard and answered before. I do have one right now, though. How does one track the individual FF groups to each fire? For example, my SO said he was going to either Idaho or Montana. Is there anywhere that lists the names of the Hot Shot and other FF crews working each fire? I know he has been transferred between fires before, so that makes it even more difficult to track him. Thanks again for being there. "J" or now known as "Poet"
8/18	Thanks Ab for checking. Well no sooner did we figure out where my FF was and they switched him. No more structural protection on the Crazy Horse on to Little Salmon and shoveling dirt. He tried to call but the cell coverage was horrible so another spouse gave me a call. Thank heavens for fire family. Montana is burning and I'm not sure there is a single fire spouse or SO that has their FF at home right now. I'll be glad to sit with you all a while. Thanks Hoosier
8/17	Well hello to EVERYONE new, lurking, sitting back and scanning etc.....I was behind in welcomes so I hope everyone feels they are at the right place. Believe me I know how you feel about plans going sideways. We were in church today and my hubby's pager went off and it took about three seconds for him to jaunt out to the hall to call.....yep,,,,,he comes back to the door and nods so I knew we were leaving....Montana calls. That has happened at least three times this summer. Everyone there knows what has happened so they just nod as I gather up my things and follow the crazy man out..... to be perfectly honest. We have been doing this a LONG time and sometimes it bothers me a lot and sometimes it is a break. I do much better when he is out on a fire and I know the start date and the end time. He also volunteers for the local structure district and that is the really hard one. They can get toned, go out for 3+ hours, get back to the station and get toned again for the rest of the day or night. That I have a BIG problem with......throw in a bizillion hours monthly for training and we never see each other. Thank good that is a winter thing.....So for me wildland is much less stressful. If we don't have kids we all seem to have dogs or other pets so that helps. At least the dog loves me and enjoys my company enough to stay here. Not to mention security.....and, today I bought two fish.....now they should be lots of help. The key to survival is stay busy. A lot of folks here work outside the home,,,,,some are stay at home moms with little ones......I remember that and the man was lucky I did not kill him for leaving me alone so much with a houseful of screaming kids. And guess how calming it is to have 4 little boys and two girls playing FIREFIGHTER all the time.....honestly if I could have I probably would have signed them all up for fire duty. They just were not tall enough. Now most of them are FF and they have their own kids (some of them) and I am hearing from spouses about all the stress.....there are no easy answers....we have discussed here lots of ways we cope so read back thru the archives and I'm sure we have covered every issue. We need each other so everybody welcome and if anyone hasn't spoken up....please do......we need ya..... sammi
8/17	Sammi and All, a question for everyone, My FF is supposedly on a fire called Hungry Horse. Now this info. came to be via my mother in law who lives in the area and may have the Crazy Horse fire mixed up with the Hungry Horse reservation which is S. of where she lives. My FF is with an engine from the Hoosier. <snip>. Does anyone know if there is a Hungry Horse fire? My FF is doing structural protection so the Crazy Horse would sound right because there are about 250 homes and some business from what I read on the @ www.nifc.gov site. On another note...I'm so excited a fellow FF spouse asked me to share dinner tomorrow. What a great deal. Next fire is my turn. Although our spouses don't go out on the same fires because they do different things-fire season is fire season and they are gone at the same time. Everyone have a great Monday. Hoosier I did a cursory inspection and also asked someone who should know if he could find a Hungry Horse Fire. He said he couldn't even when he gave a quick look at the fire complexes. A quick google search didn't come up with anything either. Your guess is probably correct, but you can't rule out that it could be part of some complex, even a new lightning fire that they're trying to pick up on IA. Ab.
8/17	Hi... Let me start by saying I love this site. I am so glad to have found somewhere where people are dealing with the same things I am. I have been lurking here for about a month and figured it was time to post. Family and friends don't always understand when we try to talk to them about what is going on. They don't see how hard it is to have to explain to the kids where daddy went again and why he can't come home at night to play. Or how hard summers are when all the plans you make are ruined with one phone call. You know we have alot dropped on our shoulders when our SO go out on fires and we are left to deal with everything. My SO is a firefighter and has been doing it for about 14 years. This is the only job he has had and he loves it. I know at times we all hate our SO's jobs when they are gone so much. His job has gotten harder to deal with over the last few years. He is either gone to class somewhere or he is on a fire somewhere or just late coming home. And our kids don't understand yet so it makes it hard to deal with. Well I have gone on enough about it but thanks for listening. Thanks for having this site also!!. FireWife Welcome to familysaid. Ab.
8/17	Hi J and welcome to our support group. We have little bit of everything here.... we have all age groups, mom's wives, g'ma's, significant others, guy's, gals and a few of the FF come along every once in a while. If you have time read back thru the previous messages starting at the earliest and I think you will find some very good info. We answer all questions and comment a lot maybe even when we shouldn't. Never a shortage of advice. Tired in northzone.......please explain the "naming- names" in your post. On the "family said" or ????? I guess we need to caution.....even if we feel it necessary to use a name,,,,change it. In my post....if and seldom when, everyone is Joe......last week I used Joe and Ab changed it further, which I thanked Ab for because sometimes we do write when we are stressed or very tired and not thinking clearly.......believe me. I have no doubt if I wrote something and named one of my people it would take less than 12 hours for the whole world of FF too hear about it. I get a little worried here sometimes but the Abs have been VERY helpful in keeping me out of too much trouble. So to them we need to send lots of thx, thx,, thx thx and more thx......,..,.big mouth (fingers) sammi We aim to please (and protect) but don't want it to stifle discussion. We think people posting here do very well. Often support is just feeling you have someone to talk with. Ab.
8/17	I have a significant other that is a Hot Shot, and have been searching for SOMEONE or SOMETHING to help me deal with the big time gaps as well as gather more information on what he does So I can understand better. Your site looks WONDERFUL, and the "family said" section was helpful in just reading the first few pages. Please tell me how I can join and anything else you can think of that will help me. Thank you, J (Ab note: now known as "Poet") Welcome Poet. You've joined. It's as simple as writing in. It helps the Abs if you put "familysaid" in the subject line of your emails, but we usually don't post your emails to the wrong board. You might want to pick a moniker (or use your initials) to protect your privacy to some extent. We recommend you don't use the name of your SO so as to protect their privacy. The fire world is small. We think this site is helpful to those in relationships too and are glad you can help each other out. Ab.
8/17	FFs are a close knit group; those sitting at home worrying - especially in a new situation or relationship - walk a thin line in many ways, especially when they name names. It is good to see other women and men FFs post in here with their perspectives based on their experiences. Anyone new to wildland fire interested in what it may look like in a complex event in a western lands, be sure to watch the recent documentary repeats if you missed them before. especially the 2 that will be aired (repeats) on CNN Sunday evening. the Women Smokejumper docu shows what it takes to be in "condition". the companion docu is a wildland fire in timber (similar to those on the line in MT & other western states are facing again this year)...not much about engine crews, but it gives a nice overview. Anyone considering a dispatcher job, heed the advice recently provided by SL, etc. additionally, listen to your own voice on tape playback: is it well modulated? can you keep it normal to ensure it is understandable at the other end of that phone or radio? in a NOW excited situation? (a high pitched screaming meemie at the other end during an emergency situation will trigger a flee from danger response) CacheK, BLM, & other men who take time to post in here, TY for your "leveling effect". when things settle down in the west and the dragon rests for another appearance, maybe others will wander to this link and post their comments - wonder how many who need their perspectives will be planning turkey day party & miss their input... remember the dragon showed in southzone last New Years. BE SAFE, ALL! sorry to ramble so long or if I've stepped on any toes, tired in northzone
8/15	Tazlina Girl: I’ll back up what FireChica said…stretching is really important. I also recommend paying a whole lot of attention to your pack; how it fits, where you carry the weight, how easily adjustable it is. Before I got into fire, my main physical exercise was dancing…swing, salsa, and tango. It’s very good cardio, and it’s a ton of fun. When I started getting ready for the pack test, I found a three-mile course that wasn’t quite flat, with a mix of surfaces; dirt, gravel, asphalt. Road shoulder is bad, because the slant makes you carry yourself differently and can overload one side of your body. I started off with just two one-gallon jugs of water in my pack (about sixteen pounds) and got that done in forty-five with no problem. Gradually I built up and replaced my water jugs with weight plates. I got a bunch of two-inch foam computer packing from the computer guy where I work and padded the back of my pack (the part that was sitting against my back) and the weights really heavily, so that they absolutely WOULD NOT shift. When I got up about around thirty pounds, or to the point where the weight felt uncomfortable for me, I started stretching before walking, spending about twenty minutes stretching. I took martial arts for a while, so I’d do both “normal” stretches and kata. I noticed that it made a real difference how I felt afterwards if I made the effort to hold my stretches…holding a position for twenty or thirty seconds made me feel like I’d abused my muscles a lot less in the long run. I used to do two days of walking then one of strength training; our crew has a strength test (ten push-ups, ten sit-ups, pound a railroad tie ten feet with an eight pound sledge, then pull it thirty feet while staying inside a three foot box), so I trained toward that, pulling weights with ropes, breaking rock, and doing sit-ups and push-ups. I also had a buddy who was training for the same test, so that helped a whole lot…I had to stick with it or I felt like I’d let him down. To vary the routine, I’d occasionally drop the pack and do power hikes…pick a hill and just blast up as hard as I could, absolutely not slowing down until I was at the top. Stream walking or hiking undeveloped trails through boulder fields or other rough terrain is good training for agility and functionality on broken ground, which are good skills on the line too. I realize that this a very rural sort of regimen…it might be hard to reproduce in a city. Not having ever really lived in a city…I dunno. I was doing all that in Northern New Mexico in February and March, so it was really cold…I noticed that my calorie intake went way up, and that I was craving protein in a major way. Lots of meat, lots of iron in my diet, and milk fat made me feel good, which in my book means good nutrition. All I know is that after a week of this, I felt really good, I started to notice an improvement in my strength and stamina, and after a month my shirts stopped fitting right in the shoulders, so I guess it works. Gear wise, I recommend getting your hands on your line pack and your boots as early in the season as you can, and getting everything adjusted to fit you really well. Get some leather butter or similar for you boots and just slather them with it before you start wearing them, or soak them in the bathtub at night and wear them dry several days running; bad boots will incapacitate you faster than you’d believe possible. My crew boss says to expect at least eighty hours wear before your boots are really broken in; I think that might be slightly high, but not very. Your pack is going to be the same way; me and my crew mates spent one very long evening just sitting around somebody’s living room adjusting our packs, adjusting each other’s packs, packing our gear, doing jumping jacks, swinging tools, readjusting packs, and most of us are still modifying things. If you get with any kind of a hand crew, your boots and your pack will be with you all the time…they can make your life better or they can make your life miserable. Go for it! Nerd on the Fireline
8/15	Well guys, driving in to work this am the smoke was starting on the western horizon.....at noon there was no blue sky and no sun at all........... driving home tonight I couldn't see the mountains which are as close as three miles on one side of the highway.... made a couple of calls and found out we are in the middle of the smoke from Glacier and Canada..... so we are very stuck in the middle of some air inversion (some of you weather dudes help me here) and they are saying could be several days before it moves off...when hubby calls from Old Robert in Glacier tonight I'm gonna tell him to get that thing out right now.. (I did tell him if he had put it out the first time he was up there he would not have had to go back....... heck I've got more smoke around me than most of the FF out there...... and our little sweeties dad did go out today so she is not a happy camper.... takes a couple days for her to settle down then it starts over,,,, poor kid just not old enough to get it....... Hoosier.....if your guy is going to the Flathead Nat Forest do you know if it is the Robert Fire in the South end of glacier? What kind of outfit is he with? Our volunteer dept here has several engines and tenders out there so maybe they will see each other. It amazes me with as many FF as there are out there roaming around how they manage to find old friends and look up people they don't know for other people. I picked up the film today my SO brought back from his first tour with Old Robert and they are awesome.....he has never been the assigned photographer in the family but this time fate was with us they are spectacular. If I get my scanner going I'll send in a couple.... sammi
8/15	Taz Girl, Check out the "Body for Life" book by Bill Phillips at the Library. It will get you into great shape for the pack test. It helps with setting and measuring goals, strength training and cardio fitness. I read "Young Men and Fire", "Fire on the Mountain", "Fire in Their Eyes" and "Fire Line" this winter. They were all very good books. The reviews are on the firebooks page with a link to Amazon.com (the site gets a referral fee if you buy through this link). While I have no aspirations to dig line, I like to be able to carry on an intelligent conversation when I ask my friend "How was your day?" This winter I plan on taking the basic fire behavior class. OregonJewel
8/15	g'ma sammi That sounds familiar. My FF only knows he is on his way to a fire in the Flathead. So glad for you and the granddaughter your FF got to stay home for a night. My FF was suppose to go out and then they didn't call and didn't call all day. So we figure he would be home for dinner and the night. I asked him to pick up some ingredients for super and wavedy good bye as I left from our lunch meeting. Silly me. I got home and there was a message on the answering machine...."I hate to do this over the phone dear, but.......". Well at least we had lunch. We hadn't expected to have that. Hoosier
8/15	TazGirl, Wow! Your tentative plans sound exciting! I have a few recommendations for getting yourself in shape. My first is, and I can't emphasize this enough, STRECH! You need to do that before AND after your exercise regime. When you start building up strength it can be a bit traumatic for your joins, so if you don't want to get injured you need to stretch a lot. My second recommendation is to start out small but be persistent. Once you get started the key to getting and staying in shape is to be VIGILANT. You need to do certain exercises EVERY day. Well, 6 days a week. It is good to rest your body too. So pick one day a week to be your day of rest, but really discipline yourself to a regime of pushups and sit-ups (or crunches) every day. Start with 10. Then the next week, bump it up to 15. Keep that up and I promise that after about two or three weeks you will already begin to notice an improvement. The pack test is many a cardiovascular/endurance test. You can start by simply. Go and see if you can do a mile in 15 minutes as a brisk walk and that will give you a sense for how far you have to go. My recommendation is a low impact activity like swimming. Swimming laps is great for getting you in shape. If you are near a city you can sign yourself up for an Ashtanga or Bikram’s yoga class. Those two types of yoga are very physically strenuous. (But be sure to find a teacher you like and who you are comfortable with.) Other activities, like swing dancing, can be a great source of cardio vascular activity. There are a lot of options. (I, personally, am not a runner. I hate running. Running is not the only way, but if you like it then go for it.) You need to get that heart rate up about 5 times a week if you can manage it. That is the key factor. Once you are in shape enough to make it three miles in 45 minutes, then try adding some weight. Maybe 15 lbs and see how that goes. From there you can work up to 45 lbs no problem! And remember to eat right. Sweets and treats are fine as long as they are balance out with what your body really needs. Good luck! FireChica
8/15	Buenos dias amigos del fuego. I went to the library yesterday and got three books on fire. I got Fire Line, Young Men & Fire and one other I can't remember. The first one is really informational w/ some true fire stories thrown in. Young Men & Fire (Maclean) is about the Mann Gulch fire. But I suppose some of you already know this. I couldn't resist getting the Maclean book. I read some of his excerpts and love his writing and what he had to say. I read some really good quotes yesterday regarding fire I might have to pass on. I don't know what's happening to me...I can't seem to get enough these days. Maybe it is really addictive...this whole fire thing. My HS called me from 10,000 ft. at 11 pm last night and said he could see the fire burning from the ridge and how pretty it was. I'm so envious. (I was less envious when he told me he was getting up at 5 am...ha ha) Thanks for the info, Southern Loving. I'm still unsure of where I'm going to apply and the other details. It is still so in the planning stages and since I live in Texas currently, I will obviously be uprooting. I'm ready to get out for a while though. But I guess I need to decide where I want my base to be. I am considering Alaska. That way, my boyfriend and I would at least be in the same vicinity...for two whole months. And it would be a great way to see that part of the country. I'm not set on that though. I was planning on applying through the forest service or the BLM. I heard from some of you that I should get some line experience or look into working on an engine crew. I can't seem to find as much info. on engine crews. Can someone give me the heads up? Does the forest service have engine crews? It sounds like there is a lot of variation when it comes to the engine crews and who employs them. I'm just wondering what would be the best fit for me for my first fire season and lack of experience obviously. Engine crew, working on the line, dispatching...not real sure. The Alaska Fire Svc website talks like in a dispatch position you could get some work there early season and then come down to the lower 48, which I figured. My question is, if you are not on a "crew," then who do dispatchers travel and camp with? Who is their crew essentially? I would love to really get in shape. Can anyone send me a good training regimen to get ready for a pack test and the other requirements? Ab, maybe you can give anyone my e-mail if they have a training schedule they want to send me, I would appreciate it. I will leave you all with this great quote from Norman Maclean to ponder: "The problem of self-identity is not just a problem for the young. It is a problem all the time. Perhaps the problem. It should haunt old age, and when it no longer does it should tell you that you are dead." Just when I think the end of my 20s will rid me of this "problem"... TazGirl
8/15	have to tell you guys we had a terrible time yesterday keeping up with one of our sons.....we have this agreement that everyone will call when they get an assignment. the person that gets the calls passes it on as needed to everyone else....sorta like a phone chain...except quite small. "One son, works with private contractor" was due to go out yesterday.....I get called at work, he is going back to Glacier, 2 hrs later nope not Glacier, he's going to Clearwater Forest in Idaho, 3 hrs later nope not Clearwater, he is going to North Idaho......at that point I said call me when he really leaves. I get home and the answering machine says.....mom I am staying home tonight and this sweet little 3 yr old voice in the background says "yipee!!!!!!' she is such a sweetie and loves her dad so much..... stay safe g'ma sammi
8/15	TazGirl, My first season I started working in timber for the Forest Service, entering data and then was asked a week later if I would be interested in dispatching on weekends so the Forest FMO could get weekends off. I started the first weekend after taking my first classes ever in fire. Our forest is often referred to as the asbestos forest and they didn't need a full time dispatcher, so I would run from the timber shop to fire whenever we got a fire. That lasted two seasons and finally in 2002 I did just dispatching and no more timber. In 2002 we started with a type 3 fire then two weeks later had a type 2 fire then two weeks later a type1 fire. I really want to go out east or south this winter and get more experience especially in aircraft which I love dispatching for. I work from mid April through mid October here then I put myself available to go out as an A.D. during the winter. Not many fires last winter so I stayed at home except when I went to see my FF. I have met the nicest people in this business. I think I can go to almost any state and would know somebody. I went to a night fire competition in January when I was in Florida and a firefighter recognized my voice from last summer. He came up and thanked me for being there for them whenever they needed anything. You will get into shape and don't let anybody say you can't. My daughter is 5'2" and 95lbs and is on an engine and can kick most everybodies butt when it comes to the pack test. You just have to want it. Let me know what you are interested in and I will help with any info I can, also applications for Forest Service positions for next year start in November if you are interested in that. Well it's almost 2a.m. and I have to work tomorrow and just found out that my FF is headed to Montana from Oregon in his last week out west. I was headed to see him in Oregon next week but change of plans, maybe I can go see him in Montana before he heads out South but not sure yet. Everybody please stay safe as Montana, Idaho and Wyoming are burning strong and I have all my loved ones out fighting fires. I hope to be made available as soon as possible. Southern Loving
8/14	Thanks fire friends! Nerd I have started to treat myself. M&M's help in the afternoons. It's gotten hotter than "little blue blazes" here in the Hoosier state and if I could I would be out for an afternoon walk in the garden while my little one watches TV, but even the air conditioner is not really keeping the house cool. My movie marathon starts tonight and school starts for me tomorrow. Today I kept busy with lesson plans. My FF is headed with an engine to the Flathead. I don't know which fire yet, but the funny thing is he grew up in Kalispell, MT and will probably get to see his Mom at some point. Last go round he got to see his brother in Missoula. Well this is one way to him keep in touch with the family. :) Thanks for the advice friends and I keep reading and learning more. Blessings Hoosier FireWife
8/15	Wooohoooo, Sammi! Thank you ma’am, for the support…I’m sure there are substandard vollie crews out there, but speaking for those of us who really do work our rear ends off (I’m sure vfd capt’n would back my up on this): I hate it when I’ve worked an eight or ten hour day on my rear job, gone on a couple of ambulance runs (at >2 hours a piece, we’re RURAL), then got called a fire and been looked at like I’m some sort of invertebrate because I’m not a professional. On the other hand, I love it when some IC who’s used to dealing with hotshots comes walking down our line and looks at us with his eyes all big and you know he just learned a little extra respect for the ‘weekend warriors’. I had an explosives engineering prof at one point who used to say “You never know who you’re lecturing to.” That hold true for all of us on the line. There’s damn good vollie crews (I’m privileged to think I belong to one of them) and there’s bad shot crews, good contract engines and bad federal engines, and you never know who you’re lecturing to until you’ve seen them with the flames reflected in their eyes. Nerd on the Fireline
8/15	Another one bites the dust! You see how addictive fire is? One person starts and soon they are pulling in their friends, before you know it people are begging for another hit, doing all kinds of things that put their health at risk . . . ;-) FireChica
8/14	Wow. I came here to check in first thing this morning and I'm feeling quite pumped up after reading everyone's encouraging words. Thank you and thank you. Southern Loving: Did you have any other relevant experience when you applied for dispatcher your first year besides the classes you took? Who did you apply with? How much work did you get? Just a few questions if you don't mind. Thanks for all you're info. I'm going to try to get in as many classes as I can before late spring. I had not considered an engine crew but will look into it. Don't know much about that at this point. And yes, I should start working on some endurance training ASAP. Can I use the excuse that my life is really busy? No, I didn't think so. I think the idea of a partner is great. That's really the only way I would think I'd stick to it. I should be able to scratch someone up to sweat with me. There are always roller derby teammates willing to work out. Thanks again everyone. It's nice to find encouragement here when it's way too early to tell any of my family and friends. And since none of them are involved in fire besides my boyfriend, I don't think they'd get it. Tazlina Girl
8/14	TazGirl: It is great to see you want to get some classes. In fire you can never be too educated. Like people have been saying start with the basics of 130/190 and I-100 or I-200. I have been a dispatcher for four seasons now and took I-200 and my dispatcher course D-110 my first year. I then took the business management classes the next year but soon learned I wanted to stay behind the radio, not do finance which still is part of my job as a dispatcher. Last season with the fire season so bad I could not make it to our state's fire academy even though it was held 50 miles from my home, so during the winter and after long talks with my firefighter children I decided to take 130/190 and then this summer took 290. You will not believe how much just these two classes have helped me out with dispatching. I now understand when the guys call me with their size-up of the fire and weather on what conditions they are experiencing. I want you to know that I was the only dispatcher in my 290 class and the FF's I was in class with were really proud that I would take that class. If it will help me take care of my resources better, I'm all for it. You might consider looking at the Rocky Mountain (region 2) web page for the Colorado Wildfire Academy. They hold two a year, with one being in Sterling, Colorado in January and the other one being in a different location in Colorado the first week in June. The June 2004 Wildfire academy will be held in Glenwood Springs, Colorado in remembrance of the 10th anniversary of Storm King. Wendy Fischer is the coordinator and does a fabulous job every year! Wherever you may take classes congrats on doing them! Southern Loving
8/13	CacheKing: I am currently a line animal, and I have experience in camp design and logistics from a previous incarnation…my interest in (fire) logistics at this point really caught fire the weekend I spent thirty hours sitting on an engine and the only sustenance the incident managed to get to us was a single soggy sausage McMuffin a piece…and the poor apes on the line got less than that. This was a major incident, too, so we’re not really talking about a bass-ackwards local yokel forgetting we were there, either. I’ve noticed that when it goes wrong on fire, it goes really wrong. TazGirl: You make me laugh because you’re in almost exactly the position I was in a year ago…I didn’t tell ANYONE I was on the fire department for almost three months because I wasn’t sure I was going to like it, stick with it, etc. I was also worried about my level of physical fitness…I’ve always been more the brain than the brawn, if you catch my meaning. I found a workout buddy to train with me for the pack test, bought an eight pound sledge and seriously traumatized some rocks to build up upper body strength (I’ve never had the patience for the weight room thing), and started doing sit ups and pushups in my lunch hour. It took me three tries to pass my pack test, but I did it (at 9,000 feet with no altitude allowance!), and I walked over that line with my whole crew standing there yelling and screaming and pounding me on the back. I’ve never seen a picture of myself grinning as big as I was in the picture they took after that. I may not be the fastest or the strongest in my squad, but I can dig a good line, I’m very good at spinning weathers, and I think my crewmates would do very very bad things to anybody who suggested that I didn’t belong. I think you’ve got a great attitude, and my advice is not to let it scare you…it may seem a long way off at first, but if I can do in a few months training, you sure can. Nerd on the Fireline
8/13	For those of you with SO's in the FF field. Look into joining the local volunteer FD. Great education, free, just hours as payment and the training is the same as if you were in tech school or other. Even tho we have career FF in the family we also have a couple of the in-law types that are members of their local volunteer dept. They get a massive amount of training both structure and wildland. They get red cards just like the career guys. Same training......same agility tests etc. For one of our son's starting in the volunteer dept then got hired by dept of Lands made a lot of difference because he had a lot more training and hours etc than most of the other applicants that year. We really think his experience with the vol dept made the difference. I don't understand why there is such a huge rift in the paid vs volunteer people. Volunteers are there because they want to be......same training, same requirements, same uniforms, different attitude......sammi
8/13	Taz Girl, If you are vigilant about working on your endurance over the winter you could be in shape for next season easy! Endurance can be improved. If you want to give it a try, then go for it! Have you considered getting on an engine crew? FireChica
8/13	Hello again. Looks like the fire season took a week off and has now cranked back up again to a Level 5 huh? My little office and desk seem a little pathetic compared to all the adventures to be had out there right now. But then again, I'm not working 16 hour days either. Been able to talk to my HS a lot more these last few days now that he upped his cell phone minutes and has been where there is coverage. What a luxury to get to chat for longer than three minutes. They were in Ely, NV and now are enroute to Salmon, ID. It was nice to meet all his buddies over the weekend and put faces w/ the names. They were real nice to me as well. I'm trying to not even ponder the fact that it will be another two months at least until we meet again. Which leads into suggestions for Hoosier Fire Wife: I think Nerd on the Fireline had a good one about doing things (treats) to look forward to or that pamper you. I really enjoy cooking for myself also. It takes a lot of time to make a great meal and therefore, you enjoy it a lot more too. And you can make whatever your heart desires since you're feeding only you. I watch a lot of movies too. I consider those a treat. I go out w/ friends quite a bit and hang out w/ roommates. But I do not have any children, so I have a lot of free time. I took an exercise class for 5 weeks that helped to keep me busy. I play tennis alone and whack it against the board as hard as I can...good to get frustrations out. A concert here, dinner w/ someone there...just things to look forward to and mark off the time. And writing letters always makes me feel a little more connected too. But journaling can serve that same purpose. I need to get back into that. And a new hobby goes a long way too. So there you are...some suggestions. I try not to look ahead too much (as mentioned above). One day at a time seems much easier. A big thanks to everyone for their suggestions regarding the experience I need. I have made some headway today. I found that the place in Texas (the ONLY one...that I've found anyway) that provides the classes you all mentioned, is only 30 minutes from here! I can't believe the luck. And it is very affordable. I'm not sure how I can fit it into my work schedule, but I think I should be able to. I'm going to try to get the S-130/S-190 and maybe even the D-100. I will have to get the 260/261 maybe in the spring. At least after reading some fire books mentioned on this site and taking these classes I'll have a much better idea if this idea is a passing fancy or something I legitimately would like to get into. Nerd on the Fireline, your HS quote was hilarious. I suppose part of me not wanting to tell him, is because I want to see first how serious I am about it. And I don't want him to think I'm doing it b/c of him or anything like that. Makes sense, right? And part of me would like to try being on the line, like Cache King mentioned. But what if we were hiking some steep terrain and I couldn't go any further? Or digging a line and I was too sore to go on? The thought of that terrifies me...of not being able to keep up. (although I am tough...just not sure about endurance) Well, enough for now. Thanks again fire friends and Ab. The information and support on this website is invaluable and unmatched. What a great resource. Tazlina Girl You're welcome. You mean I-100, the Intro to the Incident Command System, right? Ab.
8/13	Tazlina Girl, Nerd on the Fireline and all: The National Logistics website is www.fs.fed.us/logistics. It has some info, but it's a new site that will need some more input. Basically, for logistics info and requirements, go to the links for 310-1 and read thru the requirements. Take a good look at what required vs. recommended. My two cents worth is any logistics person should have some line experience and quals just to know the lingo better. But barring that, Basic 32, I-100/200, S-260/261 are great starters. D-110 would'nt hurt either. If an incident is big enough, trying to order up a trainee or someone to work at Base/Camp and Facilities, Ground Support or Ordering to just track paperwork, E and S numbers and provide some continuity is helpful. Especially if it will be a multi team incident. By getting this person in after a few days, their 14 runs into the next team and provides some insight as to what is where, who, and how. Many local colleges are having fire classes in the winter and spring. As you will see in 310-1, not a lot of requirements. You learn by doing and getting the experience under guidance/mentoring/tutelage. If you have time through the summer, gaining experience can get you AD hired easier. Good dispatchers are a GODSEND! So are good logistics folks who want to make things work well for the line folks. Thats where I think line experience helps (my opinion). If youve ever been tired, filthy, hungry, sleep deprived and need a shower, clean clothes, hot food and place to sleep- and not got it- the lesson will stick and words nefarious spout. We don't always have the greatest choice of places to start work, but we can work to provide for the folks who come to play. If there if FS Ranger District/ Sup's office, National Park/Monument, BLM unit, BIA unit or local vollies, check with them if they can start to get you in the loop. Last Logistics Conference, recruitment was one of the top points as well as training. We could lose something like 25-40% of personnel in logistics due to attrition within the next five years or so. Since I am on a team, I can't freelance like I used to, but during fire season I get calls all the time for both my trainee and qualed positions. If our local college gets the classes they are working on for fire, I'll be in school to take more logistics stuff just so I know more about who does what and how I can make their job and mine better, faster, easier- therefore making the firefighters jobs or camp life easier. Attend the logistics conference this spring in Reno, NV if you can. Good contact point for what you would like to do or think about doing. Let us know what quals and training you have and we'll try to help. If you want to contact me through the internet, Ab(s) may be able to send my e-mail address to you (federal address). Not being coy- don't want anyone getting the wrong idea. From all the other posts, I see that life continues for us with all it high and low points. But it is life that we have. Some personal notes on the posts and info. For sure, I will be cutting a check to Wildland Firefighters Foundation, and will bug my family to (parents, brother, uncles) to do the same. Past time I did that anyway. Also, FWFSA will get another member and I'll hit up the same family members to write their congressman/woman and senators. Hell, I'll even write the letter and they can sign their names and forward them. PSOB should be instituted for anyone assigned to fires- AD, pilots- but should not be a dodge for any contractor to help provide for the welfare of their hiree's nor a reason for any one of us to not provide for our families. So, in fairness, since I have'nt got a will done yet I believe a chapping (said 'shapping') in is order. But the benefits are in place for the family. Just wanna make sure some lawyer or sinister inlaws can't get their hands on it. I hope everyone stays safe out there. Keep up the great work Ab(s) and family members. By the way- my daughters colored some pictures and sent them to Dad at camp. Put them on the wall of our work area. The IC came in, saw them, and a great conversation ensued about letters, family and the importance of our loved ones whether it occurs during fire season, times of war, or the times of our greatest happiness or sorrow. Mom sent a letter- just everyday happening's back at the ranch, so to speak. Just about everyone in the work area who came through asked if they were mine and remarked how great, good, et.al. it was. Maybe this is something that may help with those SO's out there. Fire Information usually handles mail and has the addresses of camp. Last camp we were able to make two phones available- only had 23 lines to start with- all they had in the sticks to give us. Good news was we did'nt have to limit time very often. Cell service sucked. Something that help some folks with the new time requirements. If I have to work a 16 hour day on a fire assignment, I get paid for it. I show a 1 1/2 hour break midday and 6 1/2 hours at night. Meets the rules, 2:1 ratio. Basically, I get the feeling that management is trying to provide for safety by using pay regulations. Extremely stupid. Safety needs to be safety- through training, knowledge, skills and attitude. Don't cut corners, use LCES, the 10 and 18's. Driving regs (DOT) are great- they pretty well apply to all of us. The IRPG is one of the best tools going. Wacking some seasonal linediggers pay is asinine. Wacking my pay won't bring you any kudo's or high fives either- all it does is interfere with a good attitude towards what I am doing. That is not promoting safety. Guess I oughta get off my soapbox. I do feel that we need to get Title 5 squared with what the IIBMH is saying. Portal to Portal is a good start for all of us. CacheKing
8/13	Tazlina Girl; Some really good classes to take would be S-130/S-190…that’s the first, basic fire behavior and fire fighting tactics course. You might check out your local community colleges for one that offers a degree in Fire Behavior (I think Ab has a list posted, but you might want to fish around on your own). Not all 130-190s are created equal, though…try to find one (if you have the option) that has a field portion, not just classroom time. I had a great one where we did an actual live burn and got to run through everything from ignition to mop up, acting as a squad. I’d also recommend getting some medical training. CPR for sure, First Responder (or Wilderness First Responder), EMT-Basic if you want to make the commitment. I’ve never heard of crew who thought that an extra medic on the line would be a bad thing. I think it’s so funny that you haven’t told your HS about this…because I did exactly the same thing. I’d decided that fire was something I really had to do about two years before I had the opportunity to get into it ‘for real’, and I never told my HS about it. When I did get into it (after we broke up) I just sent him a pic of my crew. Floored him pretty good. But one thing he said a number of times keeps coming back to haunt me. “If you’re tough enough to be a Hotshot’s girl, you’re tough enough to be a Hotshot.” Hoosier Fire wife: Two things I found really help with the alone time: a hobby you enjoy (even if it’s just reading) and making a concentrated effort to have something to look forward to every day. I used to try to give myself a treat every afternoon or evening; one chocolate, a wildflower, or my favorite, frozen dark cherries. Just a nice little present you can give yourself. That cheered me up enormously. I also found that taking a little effort to cook something nice for just myself for dinner did wonders for my attitude. Makes you feel cared for, even if just you doing the caring. Keeping a journal also helps a lot. Nerd on the Fireline
8/13	Tazlina Girl, I think S130, S190, and I100 are the basics you take before anything else. Look on the links page under Wanna Be, under the jobs heading. (Ab, can you link to that page? Thx.) Last spring some people wrote in asking which classes were needed for firefighter 1 and these are the replies with info on the redcard, etc. I think everyone who works in fire must start with these, even the dispatchers. Great hue and cry for good dispatchers these days. Good choice if you're not figuring on a line job, but would be good to know what those who are on the line experience. Robbie
8/12	Well the west is burning again and it looks like after 4 days at home and all night bat watching for the forest service, my FF is going out again. I'm excited for him, but I'm getting really lonely. We are in a new community and I don't have a support system yet. We spent a bit of time over the weekend together, but the work week came and he had to catch up on his regular FS job--which has meant two nights alone :( I've got a little one I care for too and after my job and taking care of her I'm just a little empty. I guess I'm going to have to check out all the "chick flicks" at the library and read a bunch of mysteries. Janet Evonivich here I come! Fire Friends how do you deal with the alone time? Thanks Hoosier FireWife
8/12	Hi everyone. I have been so anxious to get to Family Said and see what's been going on since I've been gone. Catskilldog, I can't believe you were in SLC airport the day after me to meet your FF. How funny. I just got back from SLC and spending two and a half days of R & R w/ my HS before he headed back out. After three months I didn't think I could stand the separation much longer. I was around his buddies a little more than I wanted but I was kind of expecting that, so it wasn't really a big deal. Besides, it was kind of inevitable since they are all sharing rigs and have to get their errands run. I stayed an extra day after my HS left and was watching TV that night in the hotel room, and the Women Smokejumpers of all things came on MSNBC. And before that was a segment on the Bitterroot (sp?) fire in Montana in 2000. What a coincidence! I was glued to the TV. It was so interesting and a great way for me to get a better view on what my man is out there doing all the time. What an intense job! Shot's Mom, you said something about your son telling you to take a class. What kind of classes can you take? I am really starting to think about finding some kind of employment during the '04 fire season. I hope that doesn't sound ludicrous. I certainly haven't told my HS. I'll wait on that one. I'm not sure if I'm cut out to be a HS, but I do think dispatching would be more down my alley, or any other support/logistics positions. But I'm not sure how much experience you need. On the Alaska Fire Service website, it states that you do not need experience for the temporary positions. I e-mailed someone on that website w/ some of my questions. But any more info. from you all would be greatly appreciated as well. I'm going to look into the vollie thing too like Nerd said. Fire Momma, I really enjoyed your post about paying attention. So true... I suppose we could all do more of that. Enjoy your road trip. I'm jealous...I've never even been to Idaho OR Montana. Pathetic right? Ya'll take care, Tazlina Girl
8/12	Hello All: Back home again after a good run with Ca. Team 5 in Montana. Beautiful country, nice small camp and good assignment. The girls are excited to have Daddy home again, R&R days run into days off, so life is good. I'll get settled in and post some more later. Missoula was getting smoked in good when I left and a few new starts since I was on the road. Hope all your SO's are well- be they on the lines, in travel or at home for a breather. CacheKing
8/12	Hey, BLM Bob? Can I print out your post and stick it up on the bulletin board at our station? With sections highlighted? You are truly a firefighter and a gentleman, and you got all our girlish hearts a’flutterin’. Conversation one of our guys had with his girl before our last fire: “Sweetie, do you love me?” “Of course…” “Well, that’s probably gonna change…got called out.” “So fire’s more important to you than I am?” “Yup, see ya.” For any gentlemen lurking out there, this is how not to do it. Sigh. Nerd on the Fireline
8/12	Is there a way that I can look up fire personnel on various fires? I am a wildland firefighter and would like to connect with friends. TED
8/10	Thanks for writing in BLM Bob. I remember my sister reading that book. She had just come back from being dispatched to the Grand Canyon area. She liked it too. The reviews of the books are helpful. I appreciate the Abs work on the website. I am glad some male firefighters like you are writing in here. We can use the perspective. Ab, thanks for the info on the Wildland Firefighters Foundation. Like most, I donate some money to different pet "causes" every year. This sounds like a good one and I sent in a check. I do hope my family never needs their services. Ab, do you know if they have solicited funding from any of the larger granting kinds of institutions? Sometimes hiring someone to do that can be a good move. I can't imagine simultaneously trying to fundraise and to deal with grieving families. Well, enough of that. Wish I knew some rich people to hit up for donations. Robbie Robbie, I talked with them yesterday. $10s and $25s from lots of people add up to money that really helps our community. I think they have gotten someone to chase down larger donations or grants. From what I understand, that process will still take time, 6-8 months from now, to bear fruit. Question is will the Foundation folks have a daily struggle to make ends meet until large funding can be obtained? They provide a critical service, some serious money to families, sometimes fly them to their loved ones side, smooth the way, etc. Only one person at the Foundation is on "payroll" (I think). I sent in my check yesterday. Got ready to mail it, thought of the need, reopened my envelope and dug a little deeper. Can't say enough good stuff about the Foundation and the need they fill. Ab.
8/9	Whoa! I haven't read Family Said much - I usually hang out over on the They Said side - but after reading this month's posts, I'll lurk over here a LOT more. You all are exploring and discussing really important and fascinating topics here. Kudos to you all. I just have a couple of suggestions before I fade back into the woodwork. Some books were recommended for reading on what it's like at fires, but I didn't see anyone suggest "Fire on the Rim" by Stephen Pyne. An excellent read about the life and work of a firefighter. (Check the Books page and Reviews. Ab.) The other suggestion is inspired by Heli Groupie's (formerly AMM) great story about taking a batch of goodies out to the fire - cool move! At one point during my long career I was married to a helitack crewmember and I was working in a coordination center. One year her birthday came up while she was at a major rager in Southern Arizona. It took a lot of telephone time, but I found out where the helibase was through dispatch and located a florist in a nearby town. I was able to get a dozen roses delivered to her at the helibase. It wasn't easy, it wasn't cheap, and the roses died before sundown in the Arizona heat, but it was worth it. Let's just say that I got really "appreciated" when she came home. Now truthfully it probably won't happen very often that you'll be able to visit the sweetie at fire camp or get goodies delivered, but if you get a chance, do it. If your FF is worth a damn, you'll be holding all the cards after that. You have to be really careful with the timing and be sure that it's cool with your sweetie and at camp and everything. One other precaution - do everyone a favor, and don't even try to send liquor or any other thing that isn't allowed in firecamp. Think baking. BLM Bob
8/8	In case some of you don't read theysaid. Ab. Ab - tonight on the NBC Nightly News, correspondent Fred Francis will be interviewing Smokejumper Lori Messenger from Missoula. The news spot will be a tickler for the cable television documentary that will air this Sunday, August 10 on the cable channel MS-NBC. The documentary is about, you guessed it!: "Women Smokejumpers!" Folks should check their local listings as it will listed as a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer episode. Right now it's scheduled for 8 p.m. est, / 6 p.m. mst time / 5 p.m. pst - however as things change - CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS: MS-NBC: National Geographic Ultimate Explorer, "Women in Smokejumping!". Tune in and discover what a real "no 'man'ner" fire is all about! Also, MS-NBC has a website for those that can search the Web and it has a feature with the women of missoula and Lisa Loo. "Silky Let-Down"
8/8	Kudos to the person doing the research on Memorials - it's a noble cause. However I have one thing to suggest when discussing the "memorial" at the National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC). When it was decided in 1995 to establish a site that honored wildland firefighters at NIFC - there was some pretty clear direction given that it was to be a Monument, and not a "memorial". The primary reason was that there were many fire memorials already out there, yet there wasn't an area that was formally dedicated to living wildland firefighters, including their support personnel. So a Directors' level decision was made to call the NIFC site the "Wildland Firefighters Monument." And its credo was: " Honoring wildland firefighters and the people who support them: past, present and future" - and to this day it remains so. The NIFC Monument was a gift of love - from the fire community to the fire community. Vicki Minor, then a commissary contractor, and now President of the Wildland Firefighter Foundation generously got the monument started. After the 1994 fire season in which 34 lives were lost - Vicki donated her earnings for a higher calling. With a very generous donation, the seeds were planted to bring a "Monument" concept to fruition. And over time - through generous donations of time, materials, labor and corporate donations - the Monument came to be what it is today. The NIFC monument celebrates life, as well as it commemorates death. It was designed to signify life's regeneration through its living landscape - a perma-culture that represents many of the natural fuel types firefighters find in the higher elevations of the Great Basin. It symbolizes the wildfire elements that firefighters deal with everyday via the juxtaposition of the water running through its waterfall, to the bronze statues frozen in time as sentinels on watch - always ready for future firefights. The ribbon shaped path comes alive each Spring as a living blue ribbon hued by the blooms of native, blue wildflowers. And from the air it is truly a "ribbon of life" along the path of honor. The NIFC Monument truly stands as a powerful place of healing. Many families, friends, and coworkers have healed while standing on its trail, and leave the site spirit filled with a sense of peace. Miracles happen there every day - some too personal to share in this message but sure enough carried by lore and heartfelt conversation. When the Monument was dedicated it was blessed on the theme of it being "common ground." And today, it remains just so. The great equalizer for what once was and what will come. To have a memorial, you must have a past - to have a Monument - you have a grasp at the future. Hence the name. ---------------------------------------------------- For those of you who are not aware, the Wildland Firefighter Foundation, another "miracle" borne of the Monument - is always there to help those who fall on the firelines and who can't get back up. It assists families, friends, and those hearts of the living who need a hand when injuries happen. And it is a friend to the lost when a friend can not be found through good times and bad. The Foundation would never ask but I will. The Foundation needs your help. The foundation gives all that it takes in to people like you and me - and its time to help them out. Bring up the Wildland Firefighter Foundation website the next time you are on your computer. Give of yourself to help the others: those who have served in the past, those who serve now, and those we will need tomorrow. The Monument - Godwilling, it will always be there. Let's help the Foundation. Give what you can. The next miracle may be yours. -- Ghostload -- Ghostload, thanks for writing in. I have been wondering about the finances of the Foundation as they have been needed this year... 5 deaths in 4 days. I was concerned for the supporters at the Foundation as well as for the families and friends. Readers, please take a moment and write a check $10, $25, $50, $100 or more, whatever you can afford, to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation and snail-mail it to the address below. It's tax deductible. (Or if you must, go to the website and donate by credit card. Click on "Yes, I want to help." Some of the money goes to paypal when donated this way, but sometimes the convenience for donors is worth it. The Foundation needs your help.) Wildland Firefighter Foundation 3880 S. Development Ave Boise, Idaho 83705 (208)336-2996; Fax (208)336-2995 Last year at the end of fire season the Foundation's funds were depleted. Many families had been assisted financially following deaths of their loved ones. It's scary to face a new fire season without sufficient funds to help those who may need it. We ALL need to support this service the Foundation performs for our extended fire family. It serves INTERAGENCY wildland firefighters! Break out your checkbooks (or credit cards) and give generously! A few bucks from you and me gets leveraged into a gift beyond words for our fire families who need it. Vicki, Renee and others who provide this service -- Thank you SO MUCH! -- Ab.
8/8	Hello, folks, Son came home a couple of weeks ago, and it was the height of my pleasure to spend three uninterrupted hours (1-3 a.m.) with him talking fire and ICS and such. He said, "You'd love it out there. Take a class and come on out next year." I am honored that he would think me capable of doing the kind of work he does every season, and more honored to get his invitation. And, he's right--I would love it! For now, anyway, other priorities abound. For those of you who have Hotshots working the West, here's a site that lists the status of Type I crews . www.blm.gov/utah/egbcc/ Shot's Mom
8/7	hi all, i've been enjoying reading all of your posts the past few days -- especially the post from FireChica with story about the tobacco chewing tough chick. i went to 'theysaid' and read an article linked from one of the posts about a recent FF loss and it was hard to swallow -- i don't know if it's a good idea to know about that stuff or not. well, only 12 more hours and my FF hub will be picking me up at the SLC airport and we'll be driving back home with a few recreational stops along the way. i am very excited about givin' and gettin' some lovin' and just hanging with him and throwing back a few beers with him and hearing about his summer experience, too!!! i hope all of your FFin' friends and family are all safe and well! have a great weekend everyone! catskilldog
8/7	Fire Chica, You crack me UP! Hey all... With the present fire situation and my stable of fallers bare, I think I'm heading to Montana and Idaho to track down some new fallers. I think "Road Trip" is the term. I'm tired of this computer and looking at wilted veggies in my fridge. I just culled my laying hen flock by 2/3 this morning (along with three obnoxious roosters who all went to rooster heaven...i.e. chicken pot pie filling...) so I feel like a free woman. So, you all take care and I'll check back in a few days. Ready for the open road.... Fire Momma
8/7	Firefighter Significant Others- I've been lurking for a while and thought I'd come out of the shadows. Just wanted to let you know I understand your concern about loved ones out there on incidents or as I like to call it "the alternate universe of fire." It's hard not to be concerned when you have little or no information -- sometimes your imagination can be your worst enemy. Myself, my boyfriend and my sister are all firefighters and it's hard for US not to worry about each other, I can imagine what it's like for those of you waiting by the phone and watching the news. Something I've learned from being in that "alternate universe" is that it's better not to worry about something you can't do anything about. Don't dwell on the dangers, be proud of your heroes. Keep up the support system!!! Firebug
8/7	Southern Living & Heli Groupie... Thanks for the nice thoughts and comments. I appreciate it. But rather than thinking of myself as wise (which I really don't) what I've learned to do is observe very closely. I can't even remember who said it but someone very insightful said "The worst than can be said about a man (or woman) is that they didn't pay attention." Paying attention, unfortunately, can be really uncomfortable, especially when the world around us mirrors back to us our own shortcomings....which I guess is the way things are supposed to work. Right now I'm trying to figure some stuff out myself...and not very successfully. Intermingling with y'all (that's fer you "Southern" ; ) helps me a lot. Still, it's important to remember that everything we read and/or hear must be taken in with a clear critical mind. Being "critical" doesn't necessarily need to carry a negative connotation. "To think critically is, among other things, to be fair and open-minded while thinking carefully about what to do or what to believe. If you are a critical thinker, you will assess the reasons for and against doing something and then make your decision on the basis of a fair assessment, not on the basis of your emotions nor on what your astrology column says nor on whether the person giving you the reasons is looking you in the eye while sounding sincere." (Dowden) Being inside the newsroom for so many years, its downright scarey the effect the written word has on our society at large. Don't believe everything you're fed. By anybody. Instead, pay attention to where the message is coming from and try to ascertain "why" the message is being delivered. Trust your own mind...not someone else's. This is as important in the fire world as it is anywhere else. Fire Momma
8/7	THREE CHEERS FOR THE DISPATCHERS!!! This has been my first fire with my FF and the staff at our station and the dispatchers have humored me as I've checked in very frequently. I was beginning to feel I was just neurotic, but now I see you-all do it too. Well any of you dispatchers out there THANK YOU for not laughing at us and answering our questions with sincerity. Looks like were at a National Level 4 now. Thank heavens things might calm down. I know many of the FF are still out there. !!!!Blessings!!!! to all of you who have one out there and will for some time. I'm only beginning to get an idea of about what this life is about. Thanks friends for listening, Hoosier FireWife
8/7	NZ5......... sorry but I don't understand the post about the wreck and the pick-up. Is there an issue with the pick-ups we need to know about other than a lot of them are used with fire......also I definitely agree that any persons death is a huge loss no matter who they are or how they died. Just for us here because of the lifestyle we are all devastated by anyone ff being hurt or killed, no matter how they died. Pick-ups....One of our sons was borrowing "MY" pickup several years ago and was coming off the mountain....the truck in front of him hit a dust bowl in the road and it blinded our son. He loss control and planted a huge tree in the passenger side of my truck. The truck literally wrapped around the tree at the door/bed area. He was alone. He was buckled in and was bruised and had a cut on his arm. Thankfully it was a blessing there was a tree there or he would have been on his way to the bottom of the ravine about 350'......needless to say on the way to the hospital I was praying he was ok. On the way home from the wrecking yard after seeing my truck I was thanking God. Then after we got him home I wanted to smack him for wrecking my baby........I loved my truck. (just to be fair to him---the investigating deputy said he was not speeding nor was he at fault,,,,it was just an accident) so we also have had some very close calls regarding mountain roads and trucks. sammi
8/7	Hi Everybody! After a week of long hours I just had to get back on and read the what's happenings. First of all thanks Robbie for trusting in your local dispatcher to keep you in touch about your sister. I think one of the best parts of my job is keeping the family members, S.O.'s and everybody worried about the FF's informed. Next I have to agree with Heli Groupie in that I also think "Normal" is on this site for a reason. I might have a extended family in my firefighters but I still worry about my daughter in not knowing when she is on a fire because I'm so far away, or hate that my Southern Guy and me might not see each other for another 3-6 months, that is when I try to get on this site and read what is happening to other people. Most of the time other letters put my problems or worries in perspective and I realize that I have a charmed life. I have wonderful children, a wonderful boyfriend, and most of all a wonderful "family" in my firefighters. In the past two years I have met the most wonderful people in this organization and have to endure the teasing from my SO and my engine crews in that they can't take me anywhere that people don't either know me or recognize my voice and come up to talk to me. I think I can go to almost any state and would have help if I was ever in trouble. What other job gives you that joy. Also Heli Groupie, You making goodies for the base will always be remembered and will make you a more special person in the eyes of your guy. Fire Momma, you are a woman with great insight and you sound like one heck of a woman! Please keep all the firefighters out there in your thoughts. Southern Loving
8/7	Heli Groupie, I think that you made a good point and perhaps our sympathy is called for. But I must say NW, if you are 38 and what you see on this message board amazes you then, well, you need to get out more babe . . . FireChica
8/6	don't have much time to write but needed to clarify a couple of things..... The FF killed on the forest road in Idaho Sunday nite was apparently alone in the truck.....he was found fairly soon and flown to medical center he was pronounced......very sad and close to home for me on a lot of levels. As far as normal woman (women) there really isn't one so we all fit that description don't we. I mean after all....look at who is on this list. We are all abnormal with abnormal SO's...... As far as NW speaking to anyone in a gruff way....that is just not necessary. We take to sweets much faster than vinegar.....and being nice is just plain better for all of us. So I'm going to chill and maybe she will start over by introducing herself and we will accept her. If she is a long time FF or SO then she has LOTS of advice and wisdom we can all use. sammi
8/6	Ah, NW...glad you're here. Thanks for coming back. And I agree....coddling has never been my forte either. Just ask Robbie ; ) Everybody stay safe. As I'm sending my fallers down the road, they are all so happy. Adventure! For me...glad they're gone. Now I just need to have faith they'll make wise choices and watch out for one another. Beyond that...I DO BELIEVE ITS TIME FOR AN OATMEAL STOUT! Fire Momma
8/6	Sweet, Heli Groupie. He invited you "home" to see his "house" and to meet his other family. Mellie
8/6	Hey all, Just sent the last of my 35 fallers out on fires across the the western states. Yea...what a relief. As the reports of personal losses are coming in...from Washington...from Wyoming... and considering my own personal brush with highway mortality, I realize now (and I guess I realized it then) that the Mt. Angel visit on Sunday holds more importance than just a side road ramble. While at the abbey my heart was hurting so badly, and then I felt a calm. Sunday was a troubled day for many in terms of the lose of loved ones. As a general rule I'm not a supporter of organized religion. I grew up Babtist in a Mormon community where 95 percent of my highschool peers were Mormon...with a Native American mother (yep, she's Cherokee). But there is quite a lot of emotional upheaval going on right now. We don't need to agree on religious doctrine to take care of one another. And we don't need to learn all the right words for our prayers to be meaningful. (I touched the holy water in St. Mary's parish...and even though I'm not Catholic...I didn't melt!). I had the same thoughts about "Normal" as Heli Groupie, while my first inclination was to do the "tiger swipe" my intuition held me back. Could have been Robbie's reference to me as a "Sarg" hanging with me...but I tend to agree that "Normal" (whether a man or a woman) came to Family Said for a reason. Let's just extend an invitation...and leave it at that. There's too much hurting going on as it is. And things aren't always as they appear on the surface. Fire Momma
8/6	Hey everyone! Just got back online from a few days off. I couldn't believe the amount of stuff I had to catch up on here! As I was reading previous postings more were coming in on the board. I was going to respond about "Normal Woman's" post and just as I was starting this email she responded back. Ever since Mellie posted her insight (about the fire buddy coming for dinner) a few days ago I have been looking at things a little differently. What I was going to say and I guess I still am, is: Normal Woman's post sounds like someone who needs us and our support. I re-read her post several times. I couldn't help thinking her response comes from years of having someone tell her to "toughen up and quit whining". Anyway, I think maybe we should invite her to share the reasons and experiences that led up to her post. After all, she came to this list for a reason. I don't think it was just to be a pain in the ***. Just maybe she needs our support and friendship. Just a thought. Anyway enough of that...I wanted to share a wonderful (and rare) experience I had the other day! Sunday night I was talking to my guy on the phone and he asked what I was doing like he always does when he calls. I said the usual stuff and added that I was thinking about making a batch of goodies for the crew but that I didn't know how I would get them up to them. He says, "Well just drive them up here." (Our home is only about 80 miles from the fire). I asked are you sure, you won't get in trouble? He said, no I won't get in trouble, come on up. So, the next morning I loaded my daughter and myself, along with the goodies into the truck and headed up there. The fire's just about finished and people were being demobed, so the helibase was not a bustling free-for-all but it was exciting for us! And the crew was happy for some homemade goodies. I got up there just before lunch, so they had dessert for their lunch. I am so grateful I had the chance to go up there and see what goes on. Ladies, those of you who are like me - not in fire - if your chance comes to go up to fire camp, GO!!! I was only there maybe a half hour, but the fact that he shared this with me will last a lifetime! Fire Momma, It good to see you made it home safely and you're back online! Heli Groupie (formerly AMM)
8/6	To Robbie and all, point taken. And since you wonder. 38 years, happily married to FF for last 18. We both worked at it hard, and that's where this mail is coming from. FF are independent souls with taste for adventure. Clinging, crying, whining partners are soon left behind. Oh, how many times we have seen that. I guess not everyone has a coddling way to give advice.... Definitely not bitter, just amazed. NW
8/6	I love this board. Thanks for backing us up from the guys’ side Robbie. And way to give that gal a run for her money. What a great group. Actually, I have to laugh that she chose to be posted as “Normal Woman” because, after all, what “normal” woman is a firefighter? What “normal” woman puts up with having a relationship with a firefighter?! Ha! I think it is great we can help each other out through the tough moments . . . In reading Normal Woman’s post I was reminded of this one female HS I saw once. She had started FF when it wasn’t so common for women to HS and man, was she rough and tough. She chewed tobacco and everything. I remember thinking to myself when I saw her “that is a woman who feels like she has something to prove!” And I can understand that. It couldn’t have been easy for her back in the day and I have to be grateful to her for paving the way, but I can’t help but feel a little sad for her as well, like maybe she chose to or had to sacrifice a little too much of something. Like she felt obligated to sacrifice all remnants of her womanhood on the alter of Forest Service machismo. Not long after I met another female FF from the same district, she probably hadn’t been doing it quite as long, but she was such a great role model for me, even though I only spent 20 minutes in her company. She was strong and tough but still had this feminine quality to her. Kind of reminded me of the legendary Amazon women – tall, strong, 100% womyn! Wow, she was cool. Interestingly enough, I find that these days I am much more girly during my off time. I am sure it is a result of the fact that I have such a macho job, I end up compensating. The guys here keep asking me about how my boots feel and if they are broken in yet and how much pain am I in, etc. Honestly, they don’t really hurt. After about 18 hours my feet are a little tiered but they aren’t bad. Really, these guys have NO idea how excruciating stylish strappy heels can be . . . and men think they are tough! They wouldn’t last 15 minutes in a strapless bra and three inch heels! (Funny mental pictures of my boss in a slinky dress-heehee!) Bottom line-women can be tough by being women. And I don’t think being worried about relationships is something inherently female either. Men worry too, as demonstrated by previous postings on this board by men and by the wives/girlfriends of men. I loved FireMomma’s posting about her husband calling her mom when he couldn’t get her on her cell! How sweet! That is the way it should be! FireChica
8/6	hi all, i read 'Fire on the Mountain' a couple of years ago and enjoyed it very much. it was my introduction into the world of wildland firefighting, plus the stories my FF hub told me. not too long after both me and my FF hub read the book, we hiked to the memorials of the south canyon fire near glenwood springs, co, and i noticed something different about my man. he had very strong feelings about what happened to these firefighters. it is an intense experience when you hike up where most of the memorials are (very steep) and you can almost have an image of that day. i definitely recommend doing this hike after reading the book. catskilldog
8/6	Sincere condolences to family and friends of those young lives lost in WA state I, for one, refuse to ask the hard questions about the WHY a pickup NO ONE GET INTO THAT SENERIO PLEASE I've lost childhood friend from hitting trees or going into a river the pain of their loss is no different from if it had been my kid on a wildland fire or anywhere!! NZ5 lady aka MOM Let's be careful and responsible here, folks. I think it was just one life from what Sammi said, and we don't yet have a news report of the circumstances. Ab.
8/6	Tonya, While not defending your SO, there might be an explanation for the phone not working in his room in the first hotel. I have been set up in hotel rooms by the FS before and have run into the same problem, it seems that sometimes when the government makes arrangements for lodging, they inform the hotel manager that they will not pay for anything extra like movies or phone bills, so the hotel turns off the phones. When the phones have been turned off in my rooms, I have had to go down to the front desk, and ask for them to be turned on so I can call home, and ensure that I would be responsible for paying any and all phone charges, sometimes with a blank credit card draft. Sammi, GFP isn't a agency Hotshot crew, they are a type 2 private contract crew. I'm not sure, but I believe it is a fairly new company, as I saw them for the first time last year on the Toolbox Complex. John
8/5	Catskilldog, My FF read the book and enjoyed it. He also read Young Men and Fire, by Norman Maclean (author of A River Runs Through It) and Fire on the Mountain (John Maclean --Norman's son). He is soaking up anything on fire fighting right now. If you haven't seen the NOVA special called "Fire Wars" yet check it out. It helped me a lot. Watch it with your FF and ask questions. If your local library dose not have it ask them to get it via a thing called Interlibrary Loan. Ab Note: Fire Wars is being aired at different times over the next 3 days on PBS. Good show. John, Your description about what FF's think about during their little bit of time off made me cry! I got a little taste of that when my FF called and talked to me for 5 min. the other night. Thanks for the insight. Hoosier FireWife
8/5	WOW!!!!!! You gals have really been kicking butt!!!!!!!!! Don't pay any attention to people who come on our list and try to offend and cause trouble....obviously you gals did not buy into "her" attack and that was great. We have a great list going here with input from all sexes, ages, experiences etc and we are all supporting each other....on another note. I was having lunch in a cafe with some of my family Sunday and there was a HS Crew from Wash. came in to eat...obviously straight from a fire. They had on sweatshirts with GFP Initial Attack on them.....well I read in the paper today one of them 21 yrs old was killed Late Sunday nite in a truck roll over up on the forest land......I don't recognize the GFP logo so wondered if any of you are familiar with it? I can provide names etc out of the paper........sammi
8/5	don't know if it's broadcast everywhere, but right now i'm watching a public tv broadcast about wildfire and it's really good. yeah!!! what they (tonya, tazlina girl, fire momma....) said!!! catskilldog That's Fire Wars on NOVA, good show. Info on that is posted on theysaid. Ab.
8/5	ok, clear head now -- it doesn't take much. i'm going to start on a book i bought for my husband last year called 'Jumping Fire: A Smokejumpers Memoir of Fighting Wildfire'. i am interested to learn more about what my hub is going to be doing in the future. has anyone read any good books about wildland firefighting? catskilldog There's a whole list with reviews. Fire Books Jumping Fire is the first book. Ab.
8/5	To "normal woman": You said: "I've dated, lived with worked as and with FF" Maybe there is a reason for that, with an attitude like you have, there is probably a good reason that married wasn't on that list. One of the advantages of this board is the friendly atmosphere and the lack of harsh judgment. Get a dictionary and look up the definition of heart. Tonya
8/5	So-called Normal woman, Since when is sharing experiences with those in similar situations "whining"? (work on the spelling) I have a very busy life but also find the time to have a man in it, who happens to be a FF. I "talk, talk, talk" to the people here so that my other friends and family don't have to hear it too much and because, unlike you, they are understanding. I've talked to my FF 20 minutes in 2 weeks so I hardly think I'm dependent on him. (much less have I seen him...and I don't live w/ him either) I had a party at my house over the weekend w/ 50 of the friends you just told me to get. Trust me, I have a life. Your tone is bitter, lonely, condescending and unappreciated. There is no need for such judgment against people you don't even know. Your post is a real ugly, sore spot in an otherwise fantastic, supportive message board. So why don't you live and let live and spew your rhetoric somewhere else. And I don't recall reading anything on this board anywhere close to Harlequin romance descriptions...so spare ME. Proudly, Tazlina Girl p.s. to Ab I'm sorry if this post is so angry, but I had to write it. This woman got under my skin. I don't take well to people that tell me to grow up and get a life that don't even know me. I hope you can still post it though. It's only fair that I can defend myself right?
8/5	The headlines read: "Wildland Firefighter put out fire, rained on relationship" MY SIDE: To add to the mess of the "telephone incident" when I received the "pick me up at the airport" call yesterday I was sitting in my doctor's office. The poor doctor felt sorry for me and stepped out to let me talk to him for a minute. When she came back in I was a wreck, after telling her briefly what happened and finishing the appointment, I went home. She called me today to see if he was still alive, and to make sure that I was ok. Isn't that a great doctor? She is new to the area and I've only seen her 3 times...but she watches out for me alright! Well we had our discussion, you would all be proud of me. I kept my cool for the most part. After about 30 minutes of drilling into his head the way he made me feel we were making progress. But I suppose as a stubborn man he can only admit being wrong to a point. He said that he "sort of understood where I was coming from." That wasn't good enough for me, so I turned the tables on him. One of the things he asked of me before he left was not to so much as have a single beer while he was gone, which was fine with me as I prefer not to drink more than about 3 a month. So I told him about a party that I was invited to, and asked him how he would feel if I would have gone and he had tried to call me. That got his attention. He also said that the next module from this area is being set to go next week, and he has every intention of going with them. We were supposed to go to hang out with some friends, before my best friend goes back to school 15 hours away. When I mentioned going to that little 6 person get together he flipped. We're going to finish this tonight, but I had to go to work before we could finish it all. Another thing that really aggravated me was the fact that atleast one of the guys sat in the bathroom of Jon's hotel room and called his girlfriend. Some of the guys gave him a hard time about it because he was going to ask her to marry him when he got home. I told him that if he wanted to marry some of the FFs he went to the bars with and sat in the room and drank with that it was fine with me. But he had better be man enough to tell me that he was choosing them over me, and then all of the marriage plans will be a thing of the past. That was about the most obnoxious response I gave him, but he atleast knows how much he hurt me. I hope he has sense enough not to do it again. HIS SIDE: This will be short, because he is not writing it. His excuse was...hold on tight, its a good one...he said the phones didn't work at the first hotel he was at. That was one night that he went to a bar...I have a hard time seeing a hotel with phones in the rooms that are not working, but if that was so, there had to be a phone in the lobby/office area. If he didn't want to use that one, there must have been one in the bar, or someplace in the 7 blocks that he told me he walked to get there. ~~~~~~~~~~~ We're on rough ground right now. My problem is I love him too much, as mad as I am about it, I can't stay mad at him. This afternoon, after my blow-up he just wrapped his arms around me. It stopped me in my tracks, I ended up in tears because it is so good to have him home. Thank you all for the shoulder to cry on...or complain on, or whatever else... And to Sammi I believe, a while back you posted about "remind you next time you started complaining about talking to the dog." I'm with you girl, the animals seem to be much more wise than our FFs at times. Tonya Also, to the Abs out there, thank you...your board saved my tail today!
8/5	I echo Robbie's comment....carry on and let "Normal's" deposit of verbiage speak for itself. Fire Momma
8/5	Normal OLDer woman? Wonder if there is a difference between youngsters just forming relationships and those who feel they have been there, done that. Easy to say harlequin romance. No one is saying heroes. Where did that come from? Youngsters, carry on! You're sorting out important stuff. Robbie
8/5	to Tazlina, Tonya....and others, stop whinning, grow up, get a life. I am coming from 15 years of fire and now working in support for fire organization. I've dated, lived with worked as and with FF. Hero's, hardly. It is a job, exciting, could be hard, sometime bit dangerous, decent pay. We are adrenalin junkies, not accountants, that is why we are not home every night. Apparently you can't live without "reach out and talk, talk, and talk every day" Girls, you are self absorbed, whinning ninies. Get on with your life, job, interest, friends and when the SO comes back, have fun rediscovering each other, and sharing both of your last months experiences.... And PLEASE, spare us the Harlequin Romance details.......... Normal woman You have permission to skip reading here. Ab.
8/5	i liked fire chica's response to tonya's sit.....and fire momma you are right on when you say that we are all different. it is true, everyone has different thresholds and just because one person says they would tolerate something doesn't mean it's right for everyone. looking back, my advice may seem forgiving, but i just think it's important to hear the other's side of the story and not jump to conclusions. although, i have to say, honestly, that i would be extremely po'd with three nights of boozing and no calls when it was definitely possible, but i am a wife and my husband doesn't act this way normally, so i wouldn't expect him to do it while he's working on a fire. i don't think there would be any excuse for that. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't care if he went drinking with his buddies every night if he called me and let me know i was on his mind. i am on a emotional rollercoaster ride dealing with my own sit. i'm flying out to where my husband is on friday to ride back home with him and i want to clear my head before then. let's just say, right now i am feeling that my man may get a a bunch of 'oh, i forgot' 's when he gets home. i'll save you all from my ranting...... i gotta go for a run... catskilldog
8/5	FireMomma: First of all, having grown up with a clairvoyant mother as well, I’m laughing delightedly and feeling your pain at the same time. The thing is, mine tended to fail in her clairvoyance at the oddest times. One of the all time great conversations: “Hi, Mom. I should probably tell you I’ve picked up a new hobby.” “What’s his name?” “Uh, no, Mom, it’s really a hobby.” “It isn’t anything dangerous, is it?” “Well, um, I’m a volunteer firefighter.” (I’d been doing it for three months at that point) “Oh! I thought it was going to be something dangerous. Do you get to wear the hat and everything?” “Yeah, Mom.” “You’re not going to go into any burning buildings, are you?” “Well, I’m more into wildland fire fighting.” “Oh. Well, don’t go near any forest fires, you hear?” Sigh. I’ve referred her to this site, but she hasn’t looked at it. Probably for the best. Your comment about climbing a hill reminded me, though…I used to take an eight pound sledge to pile of broken cinder blocks when my HS got out of hand. It really, really helped keep me from saying anything relationship-ending. Whatever you do, DON’T chop kindling mad. That’s just asking to get hurt. Good luck again, Nerd on the Fireline
8/5	A lot of varying advice for Tonya. I have to say though, after years and years of this stuff, I have to agree with Fire Chica. Relationships are a participatory activity. "Either you're in or you're out." Yes, it's important to understand - and to a certain extent accept and accommodate - a FF lifestyle. But, its no reason to accept what is unacceptable. Relationships take work from all sides involved. It's important to remember though, we are all very different, with very different thresholds of what we will accept. Also, I guess I'm looking at this from inside a marriage, which has its own parameters or "rules of the road." Tonya, good luck girl. Listen to the others' who are encouraging you to hold steady to composure. I would just be being hypocritical because its not something I could pull off. I'd probably head up the steepest hill I could find for a hike. Better use of my energy. Fire Momma
8/5	Tonya et al; Once again, I’m looking at this one from both sides…remembering one point when I didn’t see my (now-ex) SO for a week, only to find him passed out in the middle of his living room floor with a bunch of crew buddies. They’d been drinking, wrestling, and watching videotapes of fire for the whole time, and I just beyond didn’t exist. I got the meet the crew buddies when they started moaning ‘cuz the open door had let in the light and they didn’t like it. I didn’t say anything; I just left and came back later. Was I feeling ignored and neglected? Oh yes. Pissed off? You bet. This happened multiple times. After a certain point, the crew buddies involved noticed that I wasn’t going ballistic, and they started telling my SO that I was the coolest chick in the world. Peer pressure works really well. Didn’t save the relationship, but certainly prolonged it. Now, being a FF myself, I’m remembering a number of nights when I’ve blown off dates, friends, and visiting family because coming in after a call it seemed much more compelling to stick around playing HS hacky-sack (ten pushups if you touch the sack with your hands) with the guys, rehashing the incident, and telling old war stories. It’s a different world when you’re out on call; a sort of suspended reality. It’s not that the people outside don’t matter, it’s just that there’s a sort of crew inertia…it’s hard to break out of that mode. My advice is to be patient; if you launch into psycho-attack-femme mode (which can be useful on occasion) you’re just going to make it less pleasant for him to come home. If he does that sort of thing consistently (and I’m not talking about going out with the guys and calling you in the morning, I’m talking about multi-day delays), it’s an indicator of serious trouble. Just an evening out is camaraderie. Good luck. Nerd on the Fireline
8/5	Tonya wrote: Has anyone dealt with their FFs doing something this stupid? If so, how did you handle it? Fire Momma writes: No. Kill him. (Just kidding....) Geesh, I'm afraid I have no answer for this galoot. Oops... uh... (...measured response...) Is he that much of a newbie to fire and relationships? I'm curious to hear how your discussion goes with him this evening. ....Just back online after being gone for the weekend. Took my young'un to summer camp. Traveling north cell phone reception is nil so I just turned it off and regularly checked in with my answering service. Got to Portland. Checked into the hotel and retrieved my messages from my cell phone....5...from my husband on the Slims Fire in Idaho...each more urgent than the last. "Why aren't you answering your phone?" "Hellooooooooooo" "That's it. I'm calling your mother...!" And all this time we've been talking on FamilySaid about US not getting all uptight on the phone. My goodness. He called at the crack of dawn the next morning before heading out on the fireline. I assured him all was well...but just had to smile to myself. I love that guy. Strange, incredible weekend. Driving back I spontaneously turned off I-5 toward Woodburn and headed to Mt. Angel. Thought "Yea, guess I'd like to see an angel today." What an incredible experience. Sat in St. Mary's parish awestruck by the beauty of the stained glass and statues. It was the first calm I've felt in months. Drove up to Mt. Angel Abbey and walked around with the monks. Found an delicate statue of an angel with a little girl clutching the robes around the angel's thigh. I'm not sure why, but my heart constricted. Drove back out to the freeway to head home only to find there was a brutal six car wreck just a few miles ahead of me. Took a round about way home through Brownsville. Beautiful country. Called my mom (who, by the way is one of those unarguably clairvoyant types.. imagine growing up with THAT!) She was beside herself wanting to know that I was okay. I told her what happened...that I had taken a detour to Mt. Angel.. why I didn't know, but had thoroughly enjoyed myself. She babbled on and on about how she was relieved I'd avoided "the danger." I told her I didn't AVOID anything. Just acted on my intuition. Dam* mom! Fire Momma
8/5	tonya, you should probably cool down and try not to explode on him, otherwise, you could end up hurting the situation rather than fixing it. it is so easy to take these types of situations personally (i know i have), but the situation may well have been that he was in a mood where he thought he wouldn't be too much fun to talk to. i will give him the benefit of the doubt cause it's hard to tell without knowing how he handled the situation. i'm assuming that he told you where he was, so it maybe he's wasn't aware of the impact this type of behavior has on you. i think sometimes, they (the FFs) get in a zone where they are just so tired and maybe frustrated because things on the fire don't go too well (stupid people, decisions were made that no one agrees with, near death experience they don't want to scare you with, etc.) and it's not like they 'go home' after a hard day at work -- they are at work with their coworkers the entire time 24/7 and sometimes that includes going to the bar. i had to learn this myself today. my man called me sunday night and didn't even bring up the fact that he didn't call the last two days (which is unusual) and then when i asked him about it (calmly), he said he 'forgot' his cell phone. well, of course, i immediately in my mind was thinking 'you forgot about me', but i didn't make a big deal about it. then it happened again last night. well, i don't feel that this behavior is fair to me, but then again, i wasn't there and don't know what was going on, so i will give him the benefit of the doubt. maybe we'll discuss it in a calm manner sometime later on after he refamiliarizes himself with being home. just as it is important for us SO's to be supportive and understanding, it's important for them to be the same, but it is also important to wait for the right time to discuss these things. i love my man more than anything in the world and i want him to always look forward to coming home! i truly believe that it's a learning experience for both sides. hang in there and good luck! catskilldog
8/5	Ab, Cache King mentioned in one of the posts that they could always use good logistics people on the fires. Was he referencing the posts about dispatching? That's considered logistics right? I would really like to look into dispatching on a seasonal basis or field office assistant. I have a lot of office type experience that might come in handy out there. I don't know. Tazlina Girl The order: Ops (Operations) sees the resource need and places the order. The IC approves it. Logistics actually places the order out into the larger fire world, verifies it has been placed and tracks it. Planning incorporates the arriving order into the plan. So yes, you could say that Logistics has the most "dispatching" role at the Fire Team level, but the ordering is a seamless (hopefully) process involving most of the branches of the ICS structure. Here's a link to ICS structure... Ab.
8/5	Tonya, You might begin by telling him you've been trying to understand firefighter perspective in general and his perspective this time around. Then ask him to describe his experience (that led him not to call). But stay non-judgmental, really try to understand where he was coming from. Often guys are less in touch than girls are in the "whys" of things. Often guys are less practiced at communicating, but do excellently with experience. (None of us should be blamed for what we have not yet learned.) Then ask him to try to put himself in your shoes. After all, you have been trying to put yourself in his and to understand his situation. You should know, firefighters coming off an assignment often act a little brain damaged. Relationship situational awareness is often low even when you have a good assignment. If the assignment is a let down and you're not ready to leave your crew yet, partying is not too surprising. Here's a party scene from years ago. (Ab please help me out with these photos. Thanks.) The key to good communication is to have the goal of arriving at understanding each other's perspective: You try to understand his and he tries to understand yours. It helps if both people feel they have spoken and been heard. No one that I know sets out to be a Horse's A**. Often it's just a lack of understanding and experience with relationships that makes it seem that way. Understanding is key, then agreements can be made. Good luck. Mellie
8/5	Tonya, I agree with you. You are not overreacting at all. I am impressed you were able to put off breeching the subject. I guess you should just start by explaining that you understand that you can't expect to hear from him while he is on the line and that you understand it was a disappointing trip for him, but that you are very hurt by how inconsiderate he has been over the past weekend. If he reacts poorly, well that could be a bad sign. If he is a good guy he should understand that you were worried and apologize. I don’t mean to be harsh, but I know from my own experience that sometimes a person can forgive unacceptable behavior too quickly because they want a relationship to work out, so maybe you need to say to him “look, this is what it means to be in a relationship and you are either in or you’re out. If I am going to give, you have to too.” Explain that you understand that being the girlfriend of a FF requires you to put up with a lot that other women don't have to put up with, but that means he shouldn't make it any harder than it already is. Good luck! FireChica
8/5	So much has happened over the weekend, I don't know where to start. My FF is home, yippee, I think. I picked him up at the airport last night. His crew was sent home a week early. I was so excited to get to see him, since he I had only talked to him once, yesterday morning to find out when to pick him up, since he left. Needless to say, things went from good to bad to worse. I like the rest of you worry myself sick about him whenever he is gone. But what he did was inexcusable. I found out that he has been in and out of hotels since Friday night, and instead of calling me just for a minute to tell me that he was alive and ok, he has been out drinking with his FF buddies every night, in bars till all hours of the morning. Three nights in a hotel and he didn't bother to call anyone, me or the rest of his family. I'm not sure what to even think about that, I understand that the trip was a let down for him, he really didn't want to come home, but I feel like that was unacceptable of him not to even call once to tell someone that he was OK! Maybe I'm overreacting, maybe I shouldn't be mad, but I really cant help it. I kept my cool and didn't kill him last night, I just fed him, gave him a massage, yes even the rotten feet, and sent him off to bed. I knew better than to start the discussion about this with him tired and me so angry that I could spit nails through oak boards. Tonight we are going to talk about it, hopefully calmly, but I'm not going to count on it. Has anyone dealt with their FFs doing something this stupid? If so, how did you handle it? I'm not going to see him to talk about it until late tonight, if anyone has any advice please let me know. I don't want this to become any larger of a problem than it already is. Tonya
8/5	To all: Finally got some phone lines in camp to hook up to. Read through the family said. Well, it's 2325 hours so I won't be long winded. i gotta get my wife to read through this. I think it will help her and the girls see that they aren't the only ones. I'm on the Trapper Creek Complex as a <snip>. I will post more about logistics training later. God knows, we need logistics folks badly here in the fire world. Thanks for the support from the homefront. Try to keep your chins up. I hope the bum that bothering the lady in AK gets a blanket party thrown for him compliments of her coworkers. Maybe that will get through his rum besotted mind. Will write on days off after 21 is over and I'm home being a Dad and Husband. I carry my girls pictures in my shirt pocket and show them often. Kind of a talisman. CacheKing
8/5	Any of you who are newcomers to the world of FF relationships, I highly recommend you read and reread the recent suggestions offered by John and OldRer. Print them and post it where you can refer to it daily. OldRer and John, thank you for taking the time to provide your recommendations. Obviously you know of which you speak. Congratulations on your long term relationships. Ab, those 2 posts pretty much sums it up maybe they should be reposted every late spring. Parents and family members of FFs should find their insight beneficial, not only the SO sitting at home. Don't forget to add the reminder about the upcoming Women Smokejumpers program on TV next Sunday. NZ5
8/4	Hello all, I've been reading your posts here in Family Said for a little over a month now, and have read some great advice coming from some of the lifers out there, it's great to see all of you sharing your experiences , and ups/downs with eachother. Great job on the site Ab, and thank you for including a message board for SO's , I think they are too often forgotten by most people that aren't involved in firefighting, and are every bit as important as the men and women on the firelines that they support. I've been married 17 years now, and have a 16 year old daughter, and a 14 year old son. I have been FF since '94, and my wife has always been the one to sit at home and worry whenever I've been gone. After worrying for so many seasons, she finally decided last year to find out more about what it is we do out there, so she took the S-130/S190 basic wildland firefighting course when we held it for the local volunteer fire department . She was amazed at finding out how little she really knew about firefighting, and that she had no idea how much I knew until I helped instruct some chapters of the course. Since then naturally she still worries about me whenever I leave for an assignment, but she since she has a better understanding of how much thought and planning goes into what we do, she is a little bit more at ease. Any of you that are newcommer's to the world of FF relationships, I would highly recommend finding somewhere that you could take the Basic course, it may help you as it did my wife. Also don't assume the worst if your FF doesn't call you every night, sometimes after a long hot hard day working on the line, you don't even feel like standing in the long line to get your dinner, let alone wait for 30-60 minutes to make a 5 minute phone call. If there are phones in camp and he/she doesn't call, all it means is they most likely had a tough day, and felt they would be better off getting some much needed rest before heading out again for the next shift. Trust me when I say even though you might not hear from us once in a while, our loved ones at home are always on our minds anytime we get 5 minutes of free time, when we don't have to concentrate 110% on what the fire is doing around us. Hope this helps. John
8/4	Tazalina, My HS (friend) is on the Hot Creek Fire too! Fire is such a small world. I bet those two have seen eachother. Who knows, maybe they even have spoken to eachother . . . FireChica
8/4	Hello everyone. It's Monday and I'm back to work after a nice weekend. It's nice to check back in to Family Said and hear from everyone. I had a lot of distractions this weekend to make it go by faster. I did some shopping and had a party at my house Saturday night. Went and watched our roller derby competition on Saturday also with a friend. Drank lots of beer... I heard from my HS a couple of times. His crew boss let him call from a payphone on Saturday on their way back from somewhere. (He is on the Hot Creek fire) He said his boss knows that he is trying to get me out there and needs to call me to finalize plans. (That made me feel good) Although, here it is Monday and I still have not bought a ticket and will be seeing him on Thursday. I'm getting anxious. Tickets are getting very expensive and flight options crappier and crappier. His days off got pushed back a day, so there is one more day of waiting. I figure it will be one, long week. I'm trying to be patient. But when I start to complain about my waiting, I remind myself how exhausted he must be. He sounds pretty burnt out when he calls but gets some excitement in his voice when we talk about seeing each other. I feel stupid telling him I went shopping after he tells me they hiked 3000.' vert. to get to the line. Oh well. I figure lots of I love you's and miss you's will make up for it. And I'm always sure to ask if he's doing alright, getting rest, water, etc. As far as expectations for the visit...I don't really care what we do as long as we are together. I kind of wonder if he's going to want to go w/ his buddies to the bars one night or not. That's fine w/ me as long as I'm not ignored once we get to the bar. And I guess I don't want him to be too hungover the next day either. I'm worried about saying goodbye and how to keep my cool. It will probably be another 6 weeks or 2 months until I see him again and I know I'll want to break down if I keep looking at it like that. I suppose I'll just try to not think about it until we've already said our goodbyes and he is off again. Thanks for all of the advice. I love reading this message board. And Nerd, thanks for the info. I will look into it. I found a list of all the vollies around here. I also looked on the Alaska fire website and they, unlike most others I saw, said that temporary position dispatchers do not need previous experience. Could this be right? You all take care. I'm sure you'll be hearing from me more than once this week. Tazlina Girl
8/4	I used to be the one on a Hotshot Crew. There was a time when my spouse and I were both on the road. Now I am the one that stays home and my guy is out there. There has not been a single year since 1995 that he hasn't gotten a thousand hours of overtime and he spends at minimum of 150 days a year on the road. One benefit that we enjoy, that some of you out there might not have, is I understand what he is talking about because I did it. That can be rectified; read on. Through ten years, we have run the gamut of emotions and worked through a ton of problems. What I can say is that the advent of cell phones has made keeping a strong relationship so much easier. If you are a firefighter and you don't have a cell phone, go out and buy one. For those that stay at home, buy your fire guy or girl one for their birthday or Christmas. They may not have cell service for long periods of time on specific assignments but usually they can find cell coverage at some location on most incidents. Nevada, amazingly enough, has killer cell coverage. Some other tips and comments for those in the same situations.... It is almost a joke now in my circle of firefighter friends because I have said it so many times. Real simple. There are three rules to a good relationship. #1 Don't fight on the phone #2 Don't fight on the phone #3 Don't fight on the phone This isn’t advice just for your relationship. If you fight on the phone, YOU could be risking their life. You have to remember that your firefighter is doing a dangerous job. Do you really want them thinking about the fight you had last night over the dog chewing the couch and the toilet that backed up all over the bathroom floor instead of concentrating on the job at hand? If you feel you can’t keep the conversation from deteriorating into a fight, bite your tongue and end the call gently; don’t ever, ever hang up on them, they may not call back. You have the choice of self control too. When your firefighter calls, you need to remember that he/she has just spent several days or weeks working 16 hour days, living and sleeping in the dirt, playing up the hill/down the hill and dealing with hazardous situations, cranky co-workers and line overhead that they may not agree with. Firefighters constructing fireline burn about 6000 calories a shift--all manual labor. If there is no cell coverage, your firefighter will have to stand in line waiting for the pay phone (if the incident is large enough to have them). They will have a limited amount of time to talk to you out of courtesy for those who are waiting in line behind them. In addition, the time they take to call you is cutting into their sleep time. Your firefighter might sound jazzed, up on adrenaline when he/she calls but more than likely, that is all that is keeping them going; they are probably dead tired. They will dominate the conversation, telling you about their exploits. You need to listen and try not to let your fears for their safety overwhelm you. They are using you to bounce ideas off, tell you things that went wrong and talk about the incredible sights they witnessed. If the first words out of their mouth aren't "I love and miss you" it doesn't mean that they don't; after all, they called YOU, not someone else, right? It is just that their experiences are foremost in their minds. Your role needs to be support and understanding. Sometimes all you really need to do is listen, they will carry the entire conversation. Just make sure you get that last "I love you" in before they have to hang up. And remember, they may feel uncomfortable reciprocating the “I love you” if there are a bunch of guys hanging around waiting for the phone. Firefighters are a pretty macho bunch, it’s just a fact of life. Some things that will help you manage your feelings: Educate yourself about fireline terminology, safety measures, tactics and strategies. Read the Fireline Handbook, take the time to read the LCES training, learn about the Standards for Survival. All that information is probably buried in your closet unless your firefighter keeps it at work. If they keep it at work, ask them to bring it home with them the next time they roll into town. Your firefighter is absolutely your best source of information. Ask questions this winter. Talk, in depth, about how they actually do the job on the fireline. By educating yourself, it will also alleviate a lot of unfounded fears that may lurk in your heart. People always fear the unknown. Create common ground by being interested. It will benefit you too. While they are gone, don’t let the small things get you down. Yes, you are home alone, you are lonely and there is no one to share the daily problems and joys with. Deal with the problems, put off the big projects you can’t accomplish on your own until winter, and save the joys to share when you can see them. When you talk to your firefighter on the phone or when they come home, emphasize the positive aspects of home life. One of the definitions of “home” is “a social unit formed by a family living together; a congenial environment”. It’s a good thing to remember even though you may feel like it is a place for your firefighter to do nothing but sleep and do mountains of smelly laundry. And lastly, have faith in your firefighter. Not only to come home safely but to stay true to you. Without faith in your relationship you can weaken it so much with jealousy and second guessing that it won’t withstand the fire season. And if they aren’t true to you during the season, there is plenty of time THIS FALL to break their kneecaps. I know it was pretty long-winded but I hope it helps some of you out there….. Old R5er
8/3	Hi all, I'm a first time FF's wife this summer. So glad you-all are here. He's learning out there and you-all are helping me learn here. My husband is on the Black Frog Complex in MT/ID. I just got a call from him. JOY JOY JOY. I hope to hear from him one more time before they finish the fire off. He thinks they will be there until the thing is out at the end of next week. QUESTION: How do you know if your FF is with crew members from his station or with other FF from other stations? How might I contact other family members who have FF in the same crew? Also I would love to hear more about the homecoming process. Thanks for being here! Hoosier Fire Wife
8/2	To the person who wrote inquiring after SJ information: you must unblock your AOL account to receive what I have found out. Ab.
8/2	Tazlina Girl; Yup, vollies are volunteer firefighters…but it’s a bit more complicated than just fighting fire for free. Our dispatchers are paid; it’s one of the few jobs we have (dispatcher, Service Director, and a few others) that actually gives out money. We also get paid when we get sent to fires on federal, state forestry, or certain kinds of private lands. For training, all our dispatchers are certified EMDs (emergency medical dispatchers), and most have other certs as well (in wildland fire, structure fire, or medical). The best come to every training they can, so they better understand what happens when the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Not having gone through the process myself, I’m not sure how intense it is, but dispatching one of the most vital jobs out there…and those of us on the ground sure notice the difference between a good dispatcher and a bad one. I’m going to keep blowing the vollie trumpet and say that even though we tend not to get a whole lot of respect, it is great experience. Many, many fires have been killed on initial attack by vollies long before they became enough of an issue to bring in the big guns. We also get as much training as our communities can afford; if you get on with a good, well-supported vollie department, you can get training on par or better than you might get through the agencies (I know some folks don’t want to hear that, but it’s true…we’ve bailed out some big names). Any of you ladies and gentlemen sitting home waiting for your FF to come home who want to learn a bit more about the fire world might consider volunteering; you don’t have to give up your day job, and it is time consuming, but we have jobs and training for every level of time commitment and physical fitness. And it’s a heck of a lot of fun. Nerd on the Fireline
8/2	My husband and I used to both be firefighters, but for the last two years I have been in a job that keeps me mostly at home. Usually when he gets home he just wants to relax and stay around the house (and I usually want to get out of the house after being here alone for a few weeks, lol). I just try and have the house clean and something good and homemade for dinner. Here's my list of good things about him being gone: 1. Great time to watch all of those 'chick flicks' 2. Computer is all mine 3. I get to sleep on both sides of the bed 4. Breakfast for dinner (which he doesn't care for, and yes, I think waffles with ice cream makes a perfectly good breakfast) 5. Good time to hang out with friends I'm always happier to have him here than away, but I try and enjoy my time when he's gone. Hopefully I will be out again next year, but then we really won't see each other all summer. -C Welcome C, I added your info to the list... Ab.
8/2	Yes Sammi, he is still here!!!! He has been home with a cold since Monday, and again today his Engine Captain told him to stay home for the next 2 days, and then he has three more of his regular days off to recoup! They are afraid that he will bring his germs and take out the whole crew. So here he is driving me nuts, cause he wants to be out there with the fires! Should I set the back yard ablaze to keep him happy? Poor guy, he only gets sick once a year, and this year it hit him during fire season. Abs- I would definitely help to fill up a "while he is gone" list, and a "home coming list." I may be new to being a fire fighters wife, but after 8 years of being a Maine wife, I think I have things handled. Don't get me wrong, I STILL WORRY, but at least he is not at war, right? The good thing to having him home...the dogs knocked my back fence down, and he is here to deal with it! Good night all, off to try and get some sleep. Dawn Here's the list with some suggested categories lots of blank spaces. If you have suggestions for changing the format, let me know. Family Tips For the time being, let's feel free to brainstorm. I can put tips here on familysaid and I'll add them on the list with the contributor's name (so people can address questions to the contributor if they have any later). Dawn, if you have any suggestions from your military handbook, please send 'em in. We don't have to reinvent the wheel for some categories that make sense, just make them relevant for wildland firefighter families. Ab.
8/2	Ok, everyone that made it in one piece to the end of the week raise your hands......see there we did it. A few rough spots but we all are still here and ok. Those of you that have SO's coming home soon, enjoy and use lots of patience. Those of us that have a few more days to go use lots of patience. My SO just called and may be held over on his fire so I may have to have even more patience. My therapy is my garden and usually the dogs are outside in the summer so they keep the deer away....well this summer I am here by myself so the dogs are in with me at night......well, the deer ate my garden last night....they ate the beans, sunflowers and the squash plants. Sneaky little buggers......so it is the garden or my sleep. I voted and they can have the garden. My SO is doing spot checks and mapping structures and he said they were parked under a bridge today eating lunch and a grizzly came out of the woods right in front of them and ate berries etc for a long time....I asked if he got pictures and he said he thought so.....how can you just "thought so?" have a great week end and be sure and let us know how the homecomings went......sammi
8/2	Hello everyone. I was listening to an old CD on the way to work today, while hoping to hear from my SO as he is supposed to be reassigned. Stand by your man, by Tammy Wynette was on that CD. The more I listened to it, the more I realized that I hadn't really paid attention to the lyrics before. They really echo the things that have been said on here lately about dealing with the separation from our husbands, boyfriends, family, and anyone else for that matter, while they are out fighting fire. "Sometimes it's hard to be a woman Giving all your love to just one man You'll have bad times, and he'll have good times Doin' things that you don't understand But if you love him, you'll forgive him Even though he's hard to understand And if you love him, oh be proud of him 'Cause after all he's just a man. Stand by your man, give him two arms to cling to And something warm to come to When nights are cold and lonely." I thought that this might appeal to the others out there who are fairly new to the fire thing. Talk to you all soon, Tonya Tonya, I like to turn that song around too and I substitute the words to make it "stand by your woman". I think Tammy Wynette would agree... In relationship the support cuts both ways, often at different times, but clearly a "give and take". In my relationship sometimes my partner is the one going and changing and moving, sometimes it's me. The strength of what we have is in the freedom to grow, knowing someone is watching your back. My spouse is one of the greatest anonymous friends to fire ever known - by offering me support and encouragement as I do my fire service job. Ab.
8/1	hi everyone, well, just ONE MORE WEEK!!!! and my FF husband will be picking me up at the airport and we will be driving back home together! i am soooo excited! now i just have to clean the house and get plenty of rest to be energized for the physical activities (i'm sure you know what i mean)!!! he was laughing when he told me that he shared with one of his FF buddies that his wife wants to go camping when he gets home. ha ha. well, at least this time he'll have someone to play with and he won't be so tired. ~ strength can be found in solitude if you know where to look ~ catskilldog
8/1	Hi ladies (and gents), I had a REALLY rough day at work yesterday and decided to stay home and recoup this am. Have to be back this afternoon so what do I do, wash dishes, take out the trash, find my bedroom floor? NO!!!!! I read Family said and get hung up writing on the computer......R&R for me. Dawn,,,,great to hear from you, we have some fantastic people on our list now and it is soooo nice to have a few posts each day instead of one a week. So your guy is around all the time....how do you put up with him????? kidding. Please stick around here because we have people that are new to fires, working with fires, newly involved with FF and then some in the middle and then the old end so we have all bases covered. Seems we all have pretty much the same agenda.....how to cope with whatever the fires throw at us.....can we get a copy of that book somewhere? in a couple of months we can write our own...... Hope everyone reads They Said also......we can learn a lot from them as far as the policy and procedure, political and just plain gruffness of the FF themselves. Even tho it seems most of that list is supervision....with a few seasoned FF with really great common sense advice. I've been reading everyone's plans for the "super homecoming" for the FF in our lives and just a word of caution.....if you are new to this and make extensive plans for the arrival of your FF it may not go as expected...(remember the FF that brought a buddy home)......until you have done this a few times and learn what "he" is expecting you might want to not have so many rigid plans and sort of float thru it.....your expectations and his may be entirely different and you both will be wanting to please the other so much it might just dissolve into tears and anger...... Abs: the possibility of a "how-to" on living with a 'he's coming home' to 'he's leaving' page would be great.....won't take long and we could have it filled with 'what not to do'''''' I wish some of the seasoned guys on the other list would tell us what they appreciated and what drove them bonkers from their So's.......could you maybe pass that on to them.....nothing like good info from the "old horses mouth" opps did I say that? sammi
8/1	Nerd on the Fireline, Thanks for your input on dispatching. I assume by vollies you mean volunteer departments? Is there any compensation at all or is it all voluneer? Would this be good experience if I ever wanted to look into wildland fire dispatching? What kind of experience do those dispatchers have? Any more info. would be much appreciated. Thanks again. Tazlina Girl
8/1	Hey Sammi, Yep, I am still here. It may be fire season, but my FF is still home with us!!! He works ALOT, and long hours, but he does usually come home every night, and get at least 1 day off a week. This is our first year as a USFS family, and he is an apprentice...this year he is on an engine crew, stationed deep in the Klamath Nat'l Forest, so they actually do not leave the area much! But from what I understand, when he goes to helitack next year, we will NEVER see him, so I am trying to count my blessings. I agree with you about the Navy, and their family readiness program. Being a former Marine Corps wife, I was what they called a "Key Volunteer, or Key Wife", We were trained in helping the other spouses deal with the separations, and then the home comings. So much of the same applies here as well. I am disappointed that the Forest Service does not have a similar program. I have talked with my husband about starting one at least here on the Klamath. We also learned what not to say when our Marine called from far away....." Uh honey, I went to the doctor and we are having TWINS!, little Mary broke her arm, I wrecked the car when I hit the Gererals Porche...etc." I actually have a really good book, that teaches a wife how to be the wife of an enlisted Marine, it is called Roses and Thorns. It covers every thing from how to deal with officers and their wives to separations, and ceremonies and traditions. Again, the Forest Service needs something similar. These new girls friends, and some boy friends, need the education and support of us "Veteran Wives". So right now my FF is home on the couch with a terrible cold that the girls shared with him, and I have to listen to him whine, hoping he does not miss the opportunity to go to a lightening fire! But his engine captain told him to keep his sick butt at home for now. Glad everyone is here, the companionship is nice! Dawn Dawn and others, if you want to sent in information - family readiness tips - we could post it on a page in list form or have more than one list if you want one for separation and one for homecoming. An accessible reference? Ab.
7/31	Southern Loving, Sounds like you have your "home" family (children and romantic interest) and your fire family all wrapped up in one. Working dispatch is a good way to meld of the two worlds - keep in the middle of the action. Some good people in dispatch. I have a soft spot for dispatchers because the one on our forest is a friend of the family and got my sister interested in fighting fire. When I loose track of my sis, our dispatcher friend usually has a good idea where she is. I think she keeps tabs on her. Everyone, Just want to say thanks for the information and fun familysaid provides. Robbie
7/31	Hey Everyone! Just let me say thanks so much for all the input. It's funny how things become so clear after someone else points it out! So taking everyone's advise, I'm chillin'. Fire Momma, I hope you haven't left yet because I just wanted to let you know how much what you had to say meant. After reading your post, is was like a light turning on in my head! Ever since he was deployed, I've have put my personal life on hold! For some weird reason, I felt obligated to be holding some sort of vigil until his return. One of the reasons he was attracted to me was my independence. He didn't want to feel guilty everytime he left, and wanted someone in his life who wasn't going to sit home and pine for him. Well, guess what!? I did just what he didn't want and I wasn't going to do!! So, just to let you know, I'm back on track. I have to admit though, the thing about an unnourished body and getting enough sleep was kind of spooky! I was thinking...Are you sure you don't know me? How else would you know I've been surviving on massive quantities of coffee, cigarettes and 3-4 hours of sleep?! (ha-ha). So to echo what Tazlina Girl said: That was so sweet of you to think of us! Nerd on the fireline & Sammi, thanks so much for sharing your past experiences. You can't imagine how comforting it was to find out I'm not the only one who ever had a less than perfect homecoming! Mellie, your perspective on life and relationships is wonderful! How refreshing! Your comment about him bringing home his fire buddy so he could share his fire family with me just made me see that some of the things he does, (that I find really weird sometimes) very sweet. He's not an overly expressive person (not into PDA's and the such), and you made me realize this is his way of showing me how much he cares! It's given me a whole new perspective on our relationship! THANKS! YOU GALS ROCK! AMM
7/31	Tazlina Girl: I know I keep blowing the horn for vollies, but I know my department would kill for somebody eager to learn dispatching (or just a competent dispatcher or two). Try looking at vollie departments in your area…they’d probably bend over backwards to get you trained. We had one dispatcher (lost her to law enforcement, sadly) who not only did dispatching, but got herself on every one of our trainings so she’d have a better idea of what it was like out there (and so she’d know exactly what we were asking for when the fire-speak came over the radio). Go for it. Coming back, anybody know how one gets training for logistics unit jobs? I’d like to work toward a LogULeader, but I have no idea how to start. CacheKing? CacheQueen? Nerd on the Fireline
7/31	Taz, Oh my gosh...Rollerderby? You don't know HOW much I'd love to do that....I'm soooo jealous. Good for you! How did you get into that? Sounds like you're right on track in the physical realm. Just pay real close attention when its time to do the "parting thing". If you feel like you're morphying from the "sweet thang" into a "slasher" think "Okay...this seems like something those guys on Family Said were referring to....I think I need to go to the store to get some ice cream." Leave for 15 minutes, get the "goods," count to 10, get a perspective, re-enter in a graceful gait, and you ROCK! (Why? Because you've managed to do what many of us couldn't in our early years....compose before the eruption...) Have a splendid time. I'm checking out for a few days. Ciao, Fire Momma
7/31	howdy, tazlina girl, roller derby -- that's sounds cool! do you guys get bruised? what an adrenline rush! i'm envious. i left a lot behind when i moved to the east and i'm at a loss for activities here, especially since i work in the city (blah! it's all for the money). this year i am saving up for a custom motorcycle that my hub is going to build for me. and then i'm going to save as much as i can so that i may be able to go with him out west next summer and do something adventurous and then somehow come back here and contract or something. it would be really nice to be there when he gets off a fire instead of hugging the phone. fire momma, you are a wise one! i, too, have ~~splat~~ fallen on my face during my separation experiences and so has my hub. fortunately, my hub and i have a very strong bond, and he is very real and we communicate a lot about everything --- i mean, everything!! i personally am envious that he gets to be out there workin' in the dirt and potentially bonding with fellow FFs while i'm here a slave to my computer at work. but we have a goal and a plan, and those are important to me enough to make the sacrifices. plus, i'll get my turn!!! a quick funny......the second time i spent with my hub, he drove about 400 miles to spend time with me where i was on vacation. he pulled off at some rest stop somewhere and we climbed the fence and lay down a blanket to 'relax' on. well, climbing back over the fence, my shoelace got caught and i literally fell flat on my face. i immediately popped up to act like 'oh that didn't just happen' and he fixed my shoelace. he told me later that he was cracking up inside -- what a dork i was. catskilldog
7/31	Hi All, Nice job on familysaid. I've been enjoying the support and advice you're giving each other here. Nerd had some good comments to PT (7/17) about gender differences. Pop psychology books talk about how differently men and women view and relate to the same incident, the same relationship, the same act; one book said it's like they're from different planets. That book takes it a little to extreme; there's more that men and women have in common, but there is truth in it. Lately there's research using PET scans (brain activity) simultaneously with men and women performing tasks. The brain is wired differently based on gender. One thing more... if you add in fire addiction, it's like a man and a woman in relationship are from different galaxies. I haven't reviewed the research lately, but Vicki Helgison a social psychologist at Carnegie Mellon University some years ago did some good research on gender and perceptions of LOVE and RELATIONSHIP. Her research found that men and women are more alike than different in their definitions and descriptions of what love is and what actions and thoughts define it, but there are differences. The thing I found most interesting was her finding regarding love and sex --and I think it's something to keep in mind when tying in with your SO again for the first time... She found that women in a relationship are more likely to say that being in love with someone precedes making love with them. Men on the other hand, are more likely to say they must be in love if they've acted the part. In other words, where sex is involved, for women it's more likely that actions follow perceptions; whereas for men it's more likely that perceptions follow actions and the reviewing of the actions. Now you could say we knew that a long time ago, but it wasn't scientifically shown until Vicki's research. And think of the implications for the reunion... If he wants his buddy there for the first dinner, maybe he's sharing a member of his other family with you. What an honor. Vicki also worked on factors influencing the survival of long distance relationships. I don't remember the results of that one or even know if it got published, but I would bet social support during the separation and preparation for re-entry were key. Finally, at least for this post... Here's one thing that has surfaced in many studies on relationship, including marriage-- and marriage has better health consequences for both men and women, but especially more for men. But this is what I find interesting. Women are more likely to name another woman as their best friend - even when married. Men are more likely to name a woman as their best friend. So in some ways, wildland firefighters who are men and who don't have a supportive partner are more at risk for poor health than those in many other professions. In fact, I think firefighting as a profession rated second when ranked on stressfulness -- behind the President. (The rating I saw was from a few years ago and I don't know if the military was one category. I think that also might be high if it's wartime.) This is probably too much dry stuff for this one post, but I often think about the men I love, the research and its implications, my own experiences with fire, and sometimes marvel that we do as well as we do. Parting bit of advice I have come to live by. "Hold tight with open arms." Mellie
7/31	Hi everyone. Fire Momma, that is so sweet that you thought of me when the sensei was delivering his lesson. In response to what you were saying about it... I lived in Utah over the winter working at a ski lodge, which is where I met my HS. Then in May, he went to Alaska and I came back to my homebase, Austin, TX. It was really hard readjusting to life back at home, but I'm used to it. I have done it many times over the last few years. Move away to go do something fun...come back home and save a little money and leave for the next adventure. It can be difficult, but so worth it. My lifesaving factor is roller derby. I play with a group of four teams and was involved in it before I left and missed it while I was gone. To have a group of 60 friends and a sport that I absolutely love has been invaluable. A nice distraction and ironically, a focus at the same time. I also started getting back into shape and feel really great for the first time in a while. I take power training 2 nights a week. So between those two, they take up four nights a week. I can't wait to see my HS's reaction, since I have toned up quite a bit since I've seen him. But even if he doesn't notice that much, I did it for me and am proud of myself for sticking to my guns. I guess I told you all already, but he is on the Hot Creek fire. Now that they have phones, he has been able to call. He called last night, but I missed it b/c I was at derby practice. And then surprisingly he called early this morning. He said there are no lines in the a.m. We had three minutes to talk. But I expect that and am just glad he calls. His plans are still not concrete as to whether we will meet up in Boise or Salt Lake so I still cannot buy my plane ticket. I just worry that flight options and prices are going to suck the longer we wait. But what can ya do? He said his days are going by very slowly knowing that we get the see each other next week. I'm following all advice as to what to do when I see him. Except we won't be at home...so no cooking. Darn. :) Sexy little somethin' somethin' to wear, pictures of the last few months, candles to cozy up the hotel room and CD player. Hotel rooms can be so sterile. It will just be hard to let him sleep too much since our time is so short. Oh well. I'll feel pretty content just w/ him sleeping next to me while I read. Thanks for all the encouragement about the long distance thing and I hope I haven't bored you all with too much information. Just nice to chat... Oh...and can anyone give me some info. on how you get into dispatching? Thanks. Tazlina Girl
7/31	When our son-in-law was in the NAVY he was gone for months at the time out on an aircraft carrier. He was stationed out of San Diego and so thats where our daughter and her girls stayed while he was gone. Apparently the support of the other wives etc made it easier. I remember that the NAVY made classes available for the wives to take right before the ships got back. In these classes they were taught about how to handle the reunification of dad into the family and how problems come up because mom has been in charge for months and all of a sudden you have this strange man in the house trying to run things and the whole thing goes to pot..... I can see that happening so easy. We are left here to do all the chores and fix the breaks and take the car for service etc. And then HE comes back and thinks he is in charge and guess what...... wrong -- he left a woman that had depended on him to take care of the guy things while she took care of the gal things, (normally) and he comes back to SUPERWOMAN!!!!!!! Just imagine how he must feel like he was totally dispensable because his "woman" managed quite well without him...... poor guy!!!!!!!! and he doesn't have a clue we have been gluing each other back together every day on the internet....... and don't tell him........ Dawn and shots mom: are you guys still around? Whats happening with your FF.......shots mom and I were actively trying to get some attention for the new fire shelters a couple of yrs ago and then 9-11 happens and everything lost its steam.........but they did get the new shelters so thats good. Now if they would just get enough of them out there for the FF........maybe someone on the They Said list can explain to us what is happening and how soon will the new ones be available to everyone Sammi
7/31	Hello again everyone! I have several things to say... First of all, Catskilldog: I saw a license plate today while I was driving to work, all I could do was laugh and think of you. The plate said dog8cat, all I could do was think of my first thought when I saw your name! Thought you might get a laugh out of it. To Tazlina Girl: You have my respect! Away from your HS for 3 months is more than I can imagine! Also, I know exactly what you mean about researching the fires, I was the one to brief him Friday morning on the fires in Idaho before he left to go fight them. For all of the other ladies experienced in the area of sending their men off to fires. Thank you so much, with the support of all of you on the board I've realized that there is no reason to worry, more than a little at least. I know that my SO is out there with the best of the best and I know that they are watching out for one another. My days have now become much less stressful. In addition to that good news, I also managed to get off work the night after Jon comes home, so that will give us much more time to do normal smokeless stuff, and listen to all of his stories. His message to me before he left was that all he wanted was for me to pick him up when he got home, stay at his house (still living with parents) and cook him dinner, then spend the night there so that I would be there when he woke up the next morning. Let me tell you all, the rubber is burning in my mind as I make all of the plans. I think I'm going to add a soak in the hot tub and a massage before bed to the evening, if he feels up to it. I've only got 11 days left! The other great news is he will be reassigned 8/1, so maybe I'll get a quick phone call. I really want to hear from him, but it is almost a blessing that he hasn't been able to call. His mom gets really upset when he calls me instead of her, so maybe things will go more smoothly for dinner. I have a feeling our romantic dinner together is going to turn into a family affair. Tonya
7/31	Hey Taz, what fire is your guy on? They got the phones on my husbands camp up and calling yesterday also. He is on the Robert Fire at Glacier. Which I understand gave them some problems today because of the heat and the wind. No I am not worried!!!!!!! Cat: one of our sons was a jumper for one season. He loved it but alas he fell in love with a wonderful gal (also a FF) and they have babies so "they" decided maybe dad should not jump out of perfectly good airplanes. Which made me very happy. He is still doing FF but he stays on the ground. She is a stay at home mom and is very supportive but I was talking with her the other night and even tho she seems to be handling all this real well, and knowing personally how the FF feels and the stuff that goes on the fires she told me she still gets the urge to be there fighting the ole dragon. Also we got into the discussion of how to handle the loneliness and she says what we are all saying. Stay busy, healthy, and try not to complain to them. When they come home: I remember when our boys were young and not even remotely old enough to be FF they all would argue over who got to wear dad's old yellow shirts when he brought them home from the fires. I think from the time they were walking they would be climbing all over his packs and putting on hardhats and wrapping bandanas around their faces. As a matter of fact, our grandson spent the weekend with me this week and he was in the attic going thru all the storage containers and found a box of discarded gear. He called his mom and got permission to take home some of papaws old boots and a couple of bandanas, and even snatched a very holey pair of greens that I have no idea of how old they are. Well, he was sooooo proud of those ratty old jumper boots I gave him a bottle of leather treatment and a cloth and brush. No kidding in a couple of hours he had those old boots justa shining. they really looked good. I almost asked him to leave them in case they were not throw aways but I didn't have the heart. So if you hear a big yell in a couple of weeks you'll know I owe somebody some new boots. Coming home to them is anticipating lots of good food, lots of sleep and lots of ______. And in between all of that they are compelled to tell you every second of their fire experience. Long ago and far away when I was fairly new to this life my guy was gone several weeks and when he made it home seems like he spent all night telling me all the exciting things that had happened to him.....I remember after a long time of listening when he finally slowed down I said, "yep, nothing important happened here while you were away" and at that I walked away. When he finally realized I was feeling ignored he felt soooo bad. But it was too late, I had acted like a spoiled brat and made him feel like a jerk and so we both ended up feeling like asses. Your reunion can go sideways in a flash so be careful. A couple of days home goes by way too fast and you sure don't want to ruin it. And even worse than that,,,,,you don't want to ruin it so much they eventually dread coming home to their firebreathing SO. Tiz not an easy life we live but it is worth it.....every minute is an adventure. Sammi
7/31	AMM, Well, I guess I'll borrow something from my teenage daughter's book... "Duuuuuuuude! Chiiiiiill!" Okay, two observations, take them if they work. Leave them if they don't. I was sitting in the dojo last night waiting for my 8-year-old to finish up her lesson. Sometimes the Sensei decides to philosophize. None of us mind, because it's usually pretty darn appropriate. Last night, Tazlina Girl, I actually sat there wishing you could be sitting there beside me. Now...AMM...you too. I'm not going to be able to explain it like he did, but...he emphasized the importance of not ignoring your personal growth when you begin building a relationship with someone else. The tendency to do this is overwhelming, considering the hormones and the emotional dynamics of a new romance. We all understand how that goes...we've all been there and been humbled by how immobilized we can get. However simple these things may sound, we need to do them... Eat well. An undernourished body gives us stark little ability to reason soundly, especially when tensions and stress run high. So, eat. Rest. Stay physically in shape. Take walks and breathe. Look at the beauty around you. Exercise your mind. Read (I think Nerd suggested taking a fire science class...what a great idea if you're interested!). If you are in good shape, mentally, emotionally, and physically when your man (or woman) get home, imagine how much better that R&R time will be. If the relationship ends, you're not left holding your own empty bag. Now, Sensei's lesson could have ended there, but no, he needed to dig just a liiiiitle deeper. He said....while that initial strong "attachment" might initially seem appreciated or be taken as a compliment by your partner, it soon usually becomes a heavy load that no one wants. It's like trying to swim with a cannon ball around your waist. Cutting the chain is the only way to survive. Now, Tazlina and AMM, don't assume I'm laying this all on you like you fit this profile. I don't know you, so it's not appropriate for me to make any judgments so harsh as that. Like I said, take it if it works for you. Leave it if it doesn't. Now, I'll tell you, though I really dislike generalizations, FF, whether men or women, are usually free spirits who shun being tethered to the corral fence. They need to run and romp and explore and usually come home smelling like goats. But, we love them for the people they are. Honestly, AMM, if my husband had suggested I make a really nice meal for him and his buddy on our first night together, I'd have suggested he count to ten and rethink his request. Then I would have made a reservation at a nice restaurant for the three of us, as well as a reservation at the local hotel for his buddy. That way, you've been considerate and drawn a firm boundary. Nothing wrong with that. But, hindsight is 20-20, I guess. Last, separating is not easy. Sometimes pushing away with the help of anger, is easier than walking away with composure. It's a trap many of us have experienced. It's hard to see coming. Just something to watch out for. By "separating" I don't even mean for good...just separating in general. Hope some of this helps. (Remember, the only reason I know this stuff is because I've fallen on my own face before. Ever tripped in a prom dress? When you're used to wearing basketball shoes, high heels are a whole new gig.) Fire Momma
7/31	I have been a reader of this site for almost a year but have barely found the time to write. I never thought that I would be in the fire organization five years ago but here I am with not only myself involved in fire but also my daughter (22) and my son (20). I have a younger son that still doesn't understand why I am gone at all hours but he also realizes in two years when he turns 18 that he wants to go into fire. I am a dispatcher and work with my son on the same forest. My daughter works with my brother-in-law in another state. As a single mother I think if I didn't get involved with fire I would probably be a basket case by worrying all the time. I try to keep learning what my children and all the other kids (of all ages) that I watch over are faced with. I think that the fire organization has the best bunch of individuals you will ever find. Having had many resources on the forest last year from almost all fifty states I can't imagine my life without fire. These people have made my life so enjoyable. I read about the hardships of having your SO's gone for so long and I can relate to you in more than one way. I met the man of my dreams last year as I was working the worst fire season ever on the forest. He works out of the South and I'm in the West so there is at least 2000 miles between us but we make time to see each other and we call each other almost everyday. We have spent a total of 30 days together since we met In June of 2002 but with him being in the business he doesn't get upset that there are men calling me at all times of the day or night because he knows some of them I might be the only family they have for the summer. I just want to tell others that if we can make it work, anybody can if they really want to. Everyday I think of him and my daughter and can just imagine what it's going to be like when I see them. I just want to tell the girls that are having a hard time to spend some time learning about firefighting and then maybe it will be easier for you to understand that the joy of firefighting is one kind of love for your SO, but he will always come home to you which is what I will be waiting for when he retires and finally moves out West. Southern Loving!
7/30	tazlina girl, glad you finally got to talk to your SO. my hub and i have had a long distance relationship for just about the entire 2 1/2 years we've been together. first nine months we spent 2000 miles apart. then i decided to move to where he was (with a promise that we're going out west as soon as he's done with school). two weeks after i got here, he was called into active duty with the military and we continued to be, well, maybe not as long distance as before, but still, i got a really good job so i stayed, and he went to live on base 350 miles away with the hopes that he'd get out in a couple of months. well, turned into 1 1/2 years, he came home, we got married in may, and immediately following our honeymoon, we drove out west to where he's based out of for the fire season and i flew home (3000 miles away). after 4 weeks, i had to see him, so i took my chances that he'd be off a fire, and flew out to surprise him for two days and then flew back out in july and spent a day with him and now he is finally coming home in 1 1/2 weeks until next summer's fire season. i wonder what it's going to be like having him around all the time! i would rather have short spurts with my man than every day with anyone else!!! i never wanted what people call a 'normal' life anyway. just need to find my own adventurous job instead of being stuck behind a desk. maybe i'll join him next season. i've already practiced the pack test and passed the first time. i just love the smell of fire...mmmm...i do know that he wants to be a smokejumper, so it's all going to last quite a while.........cheers to the hopes that your relationship will, too.......catskilldog
7/30	AMM… Yeah, I’ve been there too (almost exactly). And I responded pretty much the same way…didn’t really get me anywhere. If you know he’s in a position to get mail, I’d write him a letter. “This pissed me off, but I understand your bond with your buddies, so I’m not permanently pissed off, but please don’t put me in a position like that again, and let’s make your next homecoming like your last one should have been.” Make it up-beat. I really like letters because they eliminate misunderstandings…he can read it as many times as necessary to get your point. Nerd on the Fireline
7/30	Hi everyone. Thank you for all of your responses. First of all, my HS called last night!! They finally got phones in and he waited 45 minutes for his five. NO, I did not whine or bitch during his call. I was just happy to hear his voice and vice versa. Plans are set for next week!! Now just to clarify... Maybe I came off a little too worried or freaked out. I feel like some of you think I'm going to call his supervisor and demand to get my man on the phone, or walk into his fire camp. I would NEVER dream of doing either. If anything, the urgency in my posts was due to the fact that we have plans to rendezvous next week. These have been set plans all summer, just waiting until he came down here and knew specific dates and places. There have been times over the summer, when he was in Alaska, when we didn't talk for 2 weeks and I didn't really worry too much. I just really, really wanted to make sure I see him next week and was thinking that if he couldn't call by then, there would be no rendezvous. I am not like some of you where I see him when he comes home after his 14 or 21 days. I have not seen him in three months as of today! I have found pretty good ways to deal w/ his profession, being this is my first fire season. I have become really good at internet research and check on any and all fires daily. HE even asked ME on his way to a fire what the acreage was. I have looked at tons of photos, read many FF accounts, etc. and feel I have a pretty good picture of what goes on out there (well of course, w/o actually being there). I have taken a great interest in what he does. I send him letters and we talk on the phone whenever we can. I sent him film and got some great pictures back of he and his crew on a Alaska fire. He even picked me some flowers and included them as well. I really respect what he does and am proud of him, and I have told him that. As for another summer of this, who knows? It would be one thing if we lived in the same place and I saw him on occasion. But the logistics of Texas and Alaska and fire season are not practical. I'm just holding out until we go travel this winter. Thanks Ab, Sammi, Fire Momma, Catskilldog and everyone else. This message board has been invaluable and informative and I appreciate all your help and support. Tazlina Girl
7/30	Sammi asked what we did to stay close while separated? Well, I have a little smokey bear that sits on my desk at work and reminds me of my sister. It has a little yellow shirt and a homemade pulaski. I had to put a smudge on its nose. When I asked her once about something I could do to be in solidarity with her and her lifestyle, she suggested the following. She's tell me when she was spiking out and I could join her in not showering for the duration of her remote assignment. Hotshot humor for you! Robbie
7/30	hey AMM, keep yourself so busy doing things that really satisfy your happy buds so that when he does come home, you aren't consumed with expectations of him to satisfy you. this is not to say that you aren't justified in feeling jipped, but it might not seem as big a deal next time. catskilldog
7/30	Thinking about being a FF’s girlfriend…I think the absolute worst thing you can do is make him choose between you and fire. Even if he chooses you, he’ll suffer anytime he sees smoke on the horizon or a crummy going by. This past weekend my best friend came to visit. She showed up at my house to find me gone, and a note on the door that said “On fire, back whenever.” To her everlasting credit, I came home at close to one am the next morning and found her asleep in the back of her car…she never once asked why I’d gone out knowing she was coming to visit or why I hadn’t left a more informative note or anything like that…she just asked how it had gone and listened while I told her probably way more than she’d wanted know, then kept me company (at two in the morning!) while I stuffed everything edible in the house into my face, then she woke me up and made me go to bed when I fell asleep in my chair. Now if I could only find a guy who would do the same… Nerd on the Fireline
7/30	Sammi, Fire Momma, et al Help! I've opened my mouth and I can't shut up! I need some advice here, because I think I may have really messed up. Just to give you some history here - My SO and I are pretty recent history. We met each other this winter and moved in together in April. This is my first experience having a relationship with FF and of course my first fire season. He has been on the road throughout our relationship for various reasons such as prescribed burns, fire classes and other details. The longest he has been gone since we got together has been 21 days straight. I used to travel alot in a previous job I had and was dating someone in the same company, where we were on different crews. I've also dated an undercover drug officer. So my problem is not the separation issue (I don't think). Anyway, here's the deal. Maybe someone has some advise for me. Please don't yell at me though, I've done enough of that to myself already! My SO's helitack crew went active at the beginning of July. Since his departure we've enjoyed almost daily phone calls because his helibase has a phone right there. Friday night he came home for R&R. He asked me to fix a really nice dinner that night because he was bringing an old fire buddy home with. Now I will admit I was a little disappointed that I would be sharing him with someone else on his first evening home, but since I'm kind of a social butterfly and love company I soon got over that. We had a wonderful evening except for one thing - he totally (or almost totally) ignored me throughout the evening until his friend left. Since you don't know me - let me tell you this didn't exactly sit well with me. As a matter of fact it P'd me off! I had been so looking forward to him coming come all week! So there I was after 2 weeks of not seeing him and wishing he'd go back to the helibase! Anyway, after his friend left then he wanted to be chummy and lovey (yeah right!). To help shorten this rather long and painful weekend, suffice it to say the whole weekend which I had been looking forward to and wanting to be perfect continued the way it started with enjoyable times mixed with us squabbling! Sunday night was the worst! Let me just say - we've have never done this before. We've have always tried to make the most of the time we are together. This is not to say we don't argue, because we do, but we always work out our disagreements and then get on with it. So now it's been 3 days since he left and hasn't called me. (I know 3 days is nothing) But it's not when you have received phone calls everyday previous and you know he still has access to the phone! Now I'm looking at another 2 weeks before I can resolve this problem with him! What I need advise on is - How do you keep from having fights on R&R days. I really wanted him to have an enjoyable stress free time at home and I'm sure he did too, but it was anything but. It seemed like he was looking for ways to make me mad and start an argument. HELP!!! I don't want to go through this on future days off. Someone please give me some advise! Thanks. AMM
7/30	WOW,,,,what great advice. Seems like we all have the same issues and we all have very similar ways to handle it. Thx for sharing everyone. Just to add a wee bit more of what goes on at the fires.....these camps get into a routine. The FF learn real quick when is the best time to shower and when is the best time to head for the food. Last night my hubby called (from town) and told me they had put up three phones at his camp for the FF to use and before they even had them working there was over 40 people standing in line to use them. So they do try,,,very hard to call their loved ones. The magnitude of the amount of bodies and all the other considerations make it very difficult. They have to choose to shower, eat or stand in line to make a call. And I agree with the other posts....the last thing I am gonna do when they call is complain, or cry abt how bad I miss him or what a rotten day I had. At least I got to come home in an air conditioned car...... Yea he is out there for the love of the job, certainly not the money but I care to much for them to have to listen to me bitchin about the screen that fell out of the front door last night. I will tack it back in today and he can really fix it in December. I get asked all the time "how do you stand being worried all the time?" Well, I am not worried all the time. A few days ago We were talking about how our relationships survive.....and honestly most of them don't. But for sure, you are taking a huge risk if you try to force him/her to put you before the fires. And I can guarantee you it sounds like a huge contradiction but they do love and care, and miss us....but that dragon has a hold on them that is undeniable. I do not understand how he can go do this of his own free will, be gone for weeks at the time and still call and say, "I love you, I miss you" then when he is home he starts pacing needing to go back out......it cannot be explained but for the good of the relationship we all need to suck it up and find a way to cope with the loneliness and the desertion issues. if you find the answers please share them,,,,,,sammi
7/30	Tazlina Girl sounds like you need some grounding. honestly, not knowing where your SO is and not hearing from him is something you need to get used to. my hub is out there and fortunately, i am an experienced loner, but i understand certain females have a tendency to focus only on missing their SO. please don't take offence, but if you want this relationship to last, you need to chill. take pride in what he is doing and that he wants you in his life. also, take into serious consideration as to what it means to support a man like that. my hub is very strong but when he calls from a fire from some remote pay phone it lasts about 5 mins, and those 5 mins matter a lot to him. he doesn't want to hear me whining or crying (which i'm not), but if you want to, you need to keep it to yourself, and be 'up' for him and let him know you're thinking about him and leave it at that. i am here anytime you want to vent....anytime! i am strong, but i understand a lot. my man is out there now....trust me....i know how it feels. catskilldog
7/30	. Just went back and reread what has been posted since August. Kat and Roamy gave good advice (Aug 1 & 2), if you missed it, recommend you read it now. Tonya and Tazlina and others in new relationships with FFs 2 things come to mind: it's their job of choice, and expecting them to call when they are falling down tired is like wishing for the moon. ... if they're on assignment in the backwoods somewhere, it's highly unlikely there are cell sites, public telephones. or internet availability for general use (unless they are sitting in some huge traveling city on wheels called base camp in support of a very large fire complex - even then the lines are long) sometimes it's difficult to decide which comes first, shower, sleep, or eat. plus when in base camp, there are tools to sharpen or repair; supplies to replenish, and maybe laundry to do, etc. Tazlina, check the airline schedules to learn the number of plane changes needed to get from your home to where your SO will be when he finally gets a couple of days off. it may not be feasible timewise and the cost may be prohibitive. learn the terminology and acronyms so you can understand his lingo; if you want to immerse yourself in fire & there is a community college near you enroll in an intro to fire science class. if your SO plans to remain a wildland FF it will be somewhat easier for you based on what you experience this season. btw, and when they call, they may complain, but if you listen carefully they wouldn't trade it for a day job. Prayers and best wishes for all our men and women on the fireline; pray they come home safe and sound, first snow. NZ5
7/30	Tazlina, My recommendation is that you NOT buy your ticket until he calls you. This is very important. Things may change for his crew and he might not be able to give you much notice. You also don't want to go dancing into fire camp uninvited or unannounced (however romantic that may sound...take it from me...its not..and it wouldn't be pleasant...and possibly they wouldn't let you in anyway.) If he can, he will call. (Man...sounds like "Field of Dreams") I just got a call from my husband who is coordinating a group of fallers on the Slims Fire. Another group of our fallers is spiked out where there is little communication. The spiked group sent a message via my husband to ask me to tell their wives NOT TO WORRY. Unbeknownst to my dear faller crew, I am in contact with the wonderful folks in fire camp. I know where the fallers are, and I contacted all the wives to let them know things were fine this morning. We're also getting a FED EX care package together to send "overnight" tomorrow to fire camp for them. But, unless I knew exactly where they were, and exactly where I was sending the package, that's not even something I would normally do. Point is, THEY WORRY THAT YOU WORRY. ; ) Breath...breath....breath... Fire Momma
7/30	Advice to girlfriends of hotshots Having been on both sides of this particular issue, I’d like give a bit of advice to girlfriends of guys on the line, especially if you’re new to the fire world. I’m trying to keep this from being harsh, but there’s a couple of realities here: not hearing from your guy for four days, or a week, or even fourteen days, is not a tragedy…he’s probably fine, he’s almost certainly thinking of you, but leaving a message on his cell phone every six or twelve hours isn’t supportive, it’s annoying. If you really feel compelled to tell your SO every gory detail of your day-to-day life (and I realize that this often constitutes ‘closeness’), keep a journal. Write a series of letters or entries and give it to him when he gets back. I’ve regularly been on project where I’ve been completely out of contact for up to six weeks…I tried to telegraph this to my SOs at the time, but when you can get called out on two hours notice, this isn’t always practical. Coming back to find one thoughtful, pithy, humorous, loving, upbeat e-mail meant so much to me…it meant that he understood I was out, he was willing to stick it through and stand on his own two feet until I came back. I know one Hotshot whose girlfriend managed to get a hold of him off the line; she raised such a ruckus with the IC about a ‘personal tragedy’ that they sent someone in for him, hiked him out twelve miles to where there was cell service. Turns out her grandmother had died and she wanted somebody to talk to about it. He dumped her on the spot. When I was just a Hotshot’s girlfriend, I thought that was pretty harsh (and it is). When I got to be the one going out, I started to understand. Working fire is the most amazing combination of high and misery; endorphins and camaraderie on the one side just barely tip the balance with fatigue, filth, and pain on the other side. It doesn’t take much to add to that negative side and make the experience just horrible. I remember one call from my mother, three weeks in to ten consecutive weeks in the field: “Well, your cat just died and your father and I are getting a divorce.” I was doing great up till then; that pretty much ruined the rest of my summer, and I would have done just fine not knowing until after I’d gotten back on something more like and even keel. Ladies (and any guys in similar positions, out there lurking), I guess what I want to say is stand by your man, don’t wrap around him like a vine on a tree. Learn as much as you can about fire, his crew, his job, and firefighting life. Cruise Ab’s links…there’s some great stuff there. Make him as proud of you as you are of him; make his homecomings worth his absences. Tazlina Girl, Tonya, Catskilldog…I really, truly, understand where you are right now, emotionally and intellectually…my heart goes out to you. A few things that made waiting for my man easier were reading his favorite books; I kept finding echoes of him, and new understandings of his behavior, on every page. Talk to his family; ask his mother what his favorite foods are, and have them waiting for him when you do see him. Tazlina Girl…you might try calling the town Chamber on commerce in the community nearest where you think your man is; they can probably tell you where the crews are getting their food, where they’re staging, and the best and nearest airport. I know one gal who got a hold of her man by volunteering to help with the food service for his crew on the Hayman Fire in Colorado last year (that took some background work). She showed up with a big smile and his lunch. He was awful glad to see both. Another thought; I was on one extended project where we had a secretary for the crews, part of whose job was to coordinate between the dispatcher and the families of the crewmembers. It might make sense to get together with any other family members or SOs of members of your guy’s crew, pick a spokesperson, and have that spokesperson stay in contact whenever possible with the crewboss. That person can be in charge of finding fire information, finding out when ever possible where exactly the crew is and what they’re doing, and getting that information out to the families. For us, Mama Pili as we called her was our link to ‘home’…she had to know where we were for professional reasons, but she could also be counted on to keep everybody at home in the loop, without taking up too much of our time or tying up our communications. Nerd on the Fireline
7/29	Here's MJ's answer to someone yesterday on theysaid regarding 14 day assignments: NWCG has been pretty clear about the 14 day assignments. The 14 days start when you check into the incident. Travel DOES NOT count toward the 14 days, and the status-check in recorder asks you when your last day off was to determine if you came in fresh, or from another fire. If you came directly from a fire, that travel counts towards the 14.Travel home again does not count. So, you could travel 2 days to a fire, then do 14 shifts there, then travel 2 days back, for a total of 16 days gone from home, as an example. -MJ
7/29	A couple of years ago we were talking on the list about little quirky things we do to stay close to our FF and sort of bring them good luck etc. I have a Gold Maltese cross with FF emblems on it. I put it on a chain and wear it from the time the first one in the family goes out to when the last one comes home in the fall. This year the guys gave me two charms, one says FF wife and the other says FF mom.....so I have added them to my necklace. It hangs under my blouses so no one but me knows its there and it actually does comfort. Just a ditzy thing I started several yrs ago and if you do something and it helps then go for it. Anyone else have good luck things they do? Some mom's were collecting spoons from the area their boys went to. A lot of people are collecting the t-shirts with the fires logo......sammi
7/29	Seems like every year when the forest starts heating up and the FF are moving around we (me too) get a rash of intense worry going. Believe me,,,,,absolutely the truth, if you haven't heard from your SO, man or woman, they are in a place where there is no means of communication. That's the jest of it. If, heaven forbid, there was a problem, someone would be knocking on your door. I have been doing this a long time and I still do the emotional wreck dance every now and again. Sunday I was in church. Took my grandson with me because I hate to sit alone. Anyway, the tankers were taking off from the airport about 3 miles away and coming right over the top of our church headed north. Everytime one would come barreling over, and you can't mistake the sound, I would just get chilled. I did make it thru the first meeting but Gathered up the kid and fled at the first opportunity. I was like a prisoner to the worry chip in my head and so I took us out to lunch and fled home to the woods. That is the same as driving a car, you can't get away from your thoughts. There is no easy answer but we will listen if you feel like sharing. Funny, sad, worried, mad we have been there done that. Now, if he/she has been staying at the Motel in Denver for two weeks staged or in the Armory in Oregon waiting for orders for a week then you have every right to bash them with their hardhats when they show up on the doorstep. And you certainly don't even have to be gentle about it. Stay busy, don't watch a lot of the news, do your scrap or picture albums. Keep yourself healthy and they will be in touch. For the most part they are very busy right now and even if they are staged someplace the lack of phones is very real. My husband is on the Robert Fire in Glacier and they are staged north of Columbia Falls. He has called twice but it's easier for him because he has an Engine and they just stop on the way back to camp, and call us. Their cell phones are not working so that is a problem everywhere. Keep writing to us here. we are the best FF significant other counselors there is and the advice is free. We had a few mom's of FF last year and I wonder if any of them are lurking around. If so, please let us hear from you as to how your son's and daughters are doing. Hanging in there, Sammi
7/29	My apologies everyone.. for the redundancy of my post. I was unaware that my first one actually posted. I only discovered it was posted after I just posted the last one. Therefore, Tazlina Girl and Heather in Texas are the same. Sorry for the confusion. I was quite excited to see the replies. You all are so helpful and I can't tell you how comforting it is to know other people are in the same boat and willing to keep an eye out for you. Makes it feel like a much smaller world out there too. You know more about my situation after my last post I suppose. I know now that my SO is on the Hot Creek fire. You can imagine the logistics of trying to see one another...HS from Alaska, girl from Texas, fire in Idaho...TWO DAYS. So really now it's just all about the phone call. If he can't call, I can't go. That is what is freaking me out. But someone did say I think on this board, that they usually get phones for the crews, even though it takes a while. So hopefully that will be the case and I will hear something soon. I know he would call first chance he got if he could. Here is one more question maybe someone can shed some light on. He flew to Salt Lake City on a Tuesday, drove to Hot Creek on Wed. (probably about 7 hr. drive) and started work on Thursday I'm assuming. Does that mean his official 14 days of work would start on that Thursday, or that Wed.? It's just especially relevant for me so I can get off work. Thanks for listening to all my rambling, Tazlina Girl
7/29	Thank you Fire Momma for being so welcoming. I am new to all of this and was a little intimidated to post at first. Here is a brief description of my background and dilemma: I started dating a Hotshot over the winter. I have not seen him now for three months. He is from Alaska and well, I'm from Texas. Doesn't make any sense...I know. Anyway, I am supposed to go see him on his first R & R in the "lower 48" next week. He is on the Hot Creek fire. However, ever since he left for that fire I have not heard from him. It's been a week now. I read there is no cell service in Atlanta, ID and spotty land lines at best. I'm not even sure when to buy my ticket for and don't know how we can meet up if I can't talk to him beforehand. So I suppose my question is...do these guys have ANY access to phones out there? Is he going to be able to call me just once before we are supposed to meet up? I can't even buy a ticket until I hear from him and the whole trip might be 86'ed altogether if that is the case. And honestly, I don't think either of us could stand to go another two weeks or month. We have been looking forward to this for three months and thinking about it constantly. Is there any way for me to get a message to him? Thanks for any info. I'm really new at all of this and being this out of touch and helpless is quite maddening. I have never been such a slave to my cell phone...ever. This is a great place to come and vent...w/ other people that seem to know exactly what you are talking about and how you feel. Thank you, Tazlina Girl
7/29	Catskilldog, Tonya and all.. I just got a call from the wife of one of my fallers. She was almost in tears because she hadn't heard from her husband in four days. She said he usually calls her everyday and she was worried sick. I was able to calm her by filling her in on the fire, its location, the fact that he had been assigned to a spike camp in which there obviously was no cell service nor land line. I told her about the fuel, the acreage, etc. I tried to answer the questions that she asked me. It wasn't so much the information that comforted her, it was being able to tell me she loved and missed her husband. I assured her if anything were to happen I would be contacted immediately...and in turn, I would contact her. That's the inherent value of "Family Said" (kudos Ab). It's not so much in the specifics of what is said, but the fact we can all come here. That those new to this world can vent and ask, and rant, if necessary. Really, we're all in this together. Just like the FF out on the line, this is our form of "watching each other's back." So, you lurkers....come on in. Like Sammi said, we're here to support one another. Your post doesn't have to be "perfect" or "witty" or specifically informative. Fire Momma
7/29	hello to everyone! It looks like I am not in the loop, I still don't know for sure where Jon is. I haven't heard back from any of the emails I sent out to DOF employees. I just found info on a Virginia crew that is in Idaho, in the Salmon-Challis State Park. The crew report on the SACC site said their last work day would be August 9. That corresponds with the day that Jon should be finished as well. I don't know for sure if that is him or not. I am going to send out another round of emails asking if VA ST #8 is his crew, but for now I think that is the best bet. If anyone hears anything about any VA crew please let me know. Catskilldog-what a name! I was a little concerned at first, thanks for the explanation! Keep positive about your honey coming home, somehow I don't expect he will mind you knocking him down when he is home. Good luck. Tonya Ab is cracking up over the catskilldog moniker. I didn't read it that way because I have hiked in the Catskills and the alternative meaning didn't even cross my mind. But, HAW, if you didn't know, you might think Catskilldog was some kind of a twisted sister even if yer a cat fan. Ab.
7/29	hi to everyone. i am very new to this sort of thing, but wanted to let you know that i find a bit of comfort reading the postings here. my husband is out there for the summer and is the most fearless person i have ever met in my life (and handsome, too!). he just came off of working on the fire where the two recent deaths occurred and was called out again last night. i have confidence in him and his ability to survive. i truly believe that there would be a huge void for him if he did not fight fire. i remain calm at home because i know that i am unable to control anything that happens out there and i want to be strong if things take a turn for the worst. my family, unfortunately, doesn't really understand why someone would want to do what he does, so i rarely speak to them about my fears, if i have any. i feel comfort in knowing that i may have all of your shoulders to lean on if i need to share anything. by the way, my man will be coming home from 3000 miles away in about a week and a half and i am sooooo excited i'll probably knock him down when i jump on him!! catskilldog (that's for the mtns in ny)
7/28	Tonya, I know how it is to worry. I worry about my friend all the time when we get the kind of news we have been getting over the past week. The best suggestion I've got is to take up a new hobby to keep you busy while he is gone. Learn massage or something-that's a skill he will certainly be able to appreciate you developing when he comes home from his dispatch! OD
7/28	It wasn't really clear, Tonya, what you meant by helping you "get your family off of your back." Are you having a tough time working because your mind is distracted? That certainly is understandable, but I agree with Sammi, if that's the case...get busy. Secondly, (I think it was Sammi, but not sure) someone made the suggestion that putting a map on the fridge or wall with newspaper clippings helped their kids feel like they knew where Dad was. Now you can even download Fire Incident specific pics off the internet. Perhaps doing the same thing would help your family empathize? If something or someone is "out of sight" they're often "out of mind" if they are not a SO. Maybe putting this information out in a non-invasive way would help your family situation. They might find the location where Jon is interesting...I don't know. Just a thought. Fire Momma
7/28	Sammi, Thank you so much for your advice. I believe that Jon is on the Hot Creek Fire, but that is only a guess. That fire is only about 60 miles out of Boise, Idaho, and they flew into Boise. I still haven't heard back from the guy who makes the call when they are called up. I'm not sure of his title, but it basically says that he is the one to ask. I am assuming that since he was the one that set up their deployment he should know where he sent them, I HOPE! Jon actually works for the Virginia Department of Forestry. Only he is not full time yet, just a summer FF. The actual job that he wants actually opened for applicants the day that he left, so his mom and I are trying to get his application finished and sent in. He wants to be the forest technician in the county where we live. The scrapbook is great, I started one on his last trip out in March when he was on the Shuttle Recovery Crew in Texas, so far it is already brimming full with articles and press releases from this trip. The farm keeps me busy for the most part, I've got almost 20 horses to take care of. Then I train horses at another farm nearby, and also have a 20 hour a week job as an evening receptionist, that is only until I graduate college. Then we will be putting the icing on the wedding cake :) It all keeps me busy, but I am a high stress person anyhow, so I can always find time to worry. I think I am actually getting a little grip on myself today. I think that opening up on this board has shown me that I'm not the only one that feels the way I do. I see that each of you are going through the same thing that I am, only it is tougher for others, as they have little ones who miss daddy. In my case the only thing similar to that is Jon's horse thinks she has been forgotten. The other thing that I have going for me is Virginia only lets our FFs stay out for 18 days, then after 2 at home they can go back out. I may be wrong, but that seems a lot shorter than some of the other states allow. Tonya Also, thanks for the articles and photos from Firescribe! I really appreciate them.
7/28	To Heather in Texas, First of all let me apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I'm sorry to report I have nothing to report about your honey's whereabouts. Sorry, I wish I could have been more help. I can imagine how frustrated and anxious you are... I get to have fairly regular conversations with my SO and I still feel like I am going crazy half the time! You might try emailing his district's Information Officer. Ours is always very helpful, and will try to answer any questions someone has. You may need to be a bit patient, sometimes it takes a few days for a response, depending on how busy they are. AM
7/28	Hold on I'm gonna go get a ham sandwich and a coke.....I don't smoke or drink alcohol so I will be right back.....I have been getting in trouble again on the They Said list so I told them I would stick with Family for awhile. Actually I am hiding from them because I am expecting the mouthy ones to come after me..... Tonya.....I am not sure I have any answers for you but I can say all you are experiencing is perfectly normal. If your Jon was in the Marines and got shipped out the emotions would be the same. My biggest advice is try to not search the net a lot for info. That can drive you bananas....I have a couple of information pages I bookmarked and that's all I look at usually after work after I have done the chores. When Jon moves to another site....look up the information page for that forest or whatever and just stick with that. Usually we can get most of what we need from They Said links etc. I do sometimes find the local newspapers where the guys are and also look at them every night. One thing you might do for him is start a scrapbook......that would keep your hands busy......and that is the key to this whole waiting mess....keep busy. I know it is scary right now with the deaths being reported but honestly Jon is safer wherever he is out on the line than he would be driving home from work on the hgwy. My hubby called tonight and boy is he suffering.......he is staged with his Engine about 35 miles from the Glacier Fire. They have eaten steaks, played cards, took naps and swapped fire stories all day. There are 4 Engines and 3 Tenders from his home base with him there so they are all making themselves right at home. As far as family.....believe me if your extended family is not fire there is no way you will make them understand the ups and downs of the person that is left behind. Do you stay on your farm all the time or do you work outside the farm? I work in a very demanding job so from Monday to Friday I do real well because I have an outside focus and a set schedule and am exhausted when I get home. Don't try to make family understand where you are at on this......focus on the fact Jon is out there doing a job he loves and he does not need to be worried about you because you are worried about him. The chances of him getting hurt or worse is actually very slim......in all the years collectively from my guys doing fire...and that is a lot of years the worst we have had is a busted knee. keeping my fingers crossed that I have not jinxed them...... Even with my gripping on the other list about the safety issues I know the FF are well trained, very well equipped and believe me they want to come home. Is Jon with a shot crew or is he being dispatched from a local fire department? Forestry service? Where is the Hot Creek Fire? If it is the one around Challis Idaho the likely hood of cell phone working is slim and the area is so sparsely populated they probably set up in some area that does not have phone access........it has been my experience they do try to set up phones for the crews to use ASAP but sometimes that is not a priority. Waiting is the pits,,,,,absolutely !!!!!!!!! but he is worth it and he wants you to be supportive but happy......sammi
7/27	From Firescribe for Tonya: hot_creek_fire_photos hot_creek_fire_photos 2 hot creek fire news_releases/map location of hot creek fire in the state
7/27	Need advice from the familysaid counselors :) Hi guys, Another day gone by without hearing from Jon (my SO). I keep hoping that it will get easier, but from the sound of things from you guys it never seems to get much easier. Between the endless worry and lack of sleep I'm turning into Oscar the Grouch. And as busy as I've been, it looks like my house is a trash can. I'm sorry to come on here complaining about everything since I'm a newbie to the board, but I just have to talk to someone who will understand. Maybe someone can answer my questions. My first question is how do you make your family understand what you're going through? I live on a farm so the work is never done. My mom is usually very supportive, but I'm having a hard time with Jon being gone this time. I have this history with fire. It isn't exactly pleasant. To explain briefly is in 1993 I lost my home to fire. It was a total loss. 5 years later, my cousin died in the line of duty fighting a grocery store blaze in West Virginia. We were pretty close. And now, it is 5 years after losing Greg, Jon is out there. I can't help but cry, even thinking about it. I am so paranoid that something is going to happen. Does anyone know of a way that I can possibly get my family to lay off of me for a little while? I just need some time to convince myself that he is going to be ok. Out here on the east coast news of the fires is completely overlooked. My only way to know what is going on is to search online, that is even adding to the stress, because I'm looking for "bad news" instead of having it fed to me gently. Sorry to drag on forever, but thanks so much for listening. Tonya
7/27	Ab, No worries my friend, in addition to running a crew of timber fallers, I also operate a commercial cut flower farm. I don't grow anything large enough to need cutting down with a chainsaw, so the safety gear isn't necessary there. A good pair of Felco No. 5's do the trick. A half-acre of the prettiest flowers you ever saw! Fire Momma
7/27	Oh my gosh....Fire Chica... Niiiiiiice booots! Those puppies should last you a few years, eh? My husband and I found a great boot shop in Missoula when we there for the power saw conference last winter. We bought him a pair and I almost splurged myself. But, I figured, my Chaco river sandals will suffice just fine working in my flower field. Fire Momma Ya work in yer flower field with a chainsaw??? If so you should be wearing BOOTS and other PPE. Ab.
7/27	<<< been lurking for a long time, haven't been to chat this year either (someone didn't like my handle of choice back then). the posts from RedArmy and FireMomma have been a treat; Sammi, your recent description of your FF sleeping with his head on his red bag was a hoot. let me introduce myself: I have lots of "kids" on the fireline during fire season regardless of the month on my calendar - many are my adopted sons & daughters from when my baby became a Shot in the early 90s. (gonna get yelled at if she sees this) much like some of you, our extended family now includes jumpers, engine slugs, a dozer dude, dispatchers, contract, et al... most are BLM or USFS. like you, I pace when I don't hear from my loved ones; similar to when they came home from the smokes and paced waiting for their next assignment. I've learned to take it day by day, praying for loved ones safe returns. realize they may be someplace in a different time zone now, for sure they are in a different mind set, of course it's difficult for us who no longer have hands-on involvement in fire. after this night's tragic news about more lives lost: SINCERE CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILY, FRIENDS AND ENTIRE FF COMMUNITY BE SAFE! have to tell a joke so I'll stop crying for lives lost, homeland or overseas joke: never let em near your fireplace after too many brews & a full belly if they are sharing a blazing story in the dead of winter - if not too much wood added to your ambiance, spit on the hearth!!!!! hint: keep a "couth book" keep the faith pll NZ5
7/26	Sammi, Thanks for great advice to everyone. I agree...fire season is stressful for all of us. Pointers are great for those new to the scene...and actually help veterans feel like we're not doing it alone...again. How about some "Lessons Learned" like they have for the FF? Like...I've learned to avoid going to auctions alone, without my husband when he's off on fire assignments. And if I do go, I should not drink beer...even one...even if it's free, or else I'm apt to bring home some interesting items not in our budget....like a Remington 30-06 rifle because of its sentimental value...its the exact deer rifle I already have...and a front room full of furniture we could have done without, and a hefty workbench & radial arm saw for my 8 year old daughter. (Yes...I got rid of the radial arm saw by giving it to my father.) (Sigh....) Like...maybe this isn't exactly the best time to tear down that obnoxious wall separating the front room from the kitchen to open up the view. It's scarey the construction nightmares that crop up when I start swinging the hammer prematurely. My husband would likely have advised waiting. (Grimace...) So, be kind to yourselves. Breath deep...and try to laugh...alot. And pretty soon we'll be looking at snow clouds forming. Fire Momma
7/26	greetings to Tonya and anyone else new I might have missed......we welcome everyone and please post often.....I know there are a lot of us who don't have anyone other than immediate family to chit-chat with abt the FF in our lives and if they are off on a fire like my people are all we have is each other..... Couple of hints about the list: 1. We do enjoy a good serious conversation,,,,such as the new shelter project we did.... 2. We can get extremely humorous........that's a good thing considering what we deal with. 3. We get real sappy and whinny when we think we are being ignored etc.....or our SO has been gone for what seems like years. 4. if something does come along that is taken as offensive you can take it private thru the Ab's......remember, we cannot see faces or read body language so things can be mis-understood easily. There has been almost nil actual friction among us....certainly not like gets going on the They Said list so please don't let the gruffy professional folks on that "other" list scare you off. We are very friendly here and tend to be overly supportive to each other.... I do think we need a list of the abbreviations we use and even can start some new ones to save our fingers so I will start and then we can each make our own list if needed to translate our conversations..... 1. FF------firefighter 2. SO----significant other 3. NF-----National Forest 4. Eng-----engine 5. WT----water tender 6. SJ---smoke jumper 7. HS----hot shot 8. Abs---cute ghosts who run They Said 9. BLM---Bureau Land Management 10. DOL----Dept of Lands 11. IC----Incident Commander please send in your abbreviations gotta go do chores.... Sammi
7/26	Hey all. Just sent 16 fallers to Idaho. Told them not to be heroes and to come back home to their families. They get sent into some pretty grisly stuff. They all could use your prayers...since those of us at home are pretty busy issuing those anyway. Thanks, Fire Momma
7/26	Hi everyone,,,,,I hope this does not show up twice because of the computer problems....I have two guys that left last night for the Robert Fire in Glacier. Hubby is on an Engine and I think our son is on a Tender, . So if anyone sees newspaper articles please let me know. Another hint for the new people.....you might find a web-page for the National Forest they are on. Also look for local newspapers on the web. I have found a couple pictures of my sons in the newspapers close to the fires they were on......keep those prayers flowing upward and try and stay happy while they are out of touch. Remember, if you are new to this life. Cell phones are great but do not work real well in most locations out there in the wild. Also, they will call the first opportunity... it may be midnight but they will call. Our son called about midnight last year from one of his fires and I was asleep but the one to answer the phone, of course scared to death. He said...."mom this is Junior" and I said "and you better damn well still be alive"!!!!!!!!!!! Try not to let loose on them all the things that have broken at home and that the dog died and the MIL (mother in law) got arrested (kidding). The dog dying thing actually happened to us last year. Our baby (24) was down on the Clearwater NF and his St Bernard of 14 yrs died. We did not tell him until 4 days later when he got home.......what would have been the point? They need to have clear minds and hearts and not be distracted.....stay happy and busy and try to only worry at 75% of your time......Sammi
7/25	Hi everyone, this is my first post, but I've been reading for a while. My SO will be boarding a plane in less than an hour to travel to Boise, ID. He is going to the Hot Creek fire. If anyone finds any info or pictures I would love to know where they are, especially if there are any surfacing of a Virginia crew. Any links would be greatly appreciated! I'll be keeping all of your ff's in my prayers. Tonya
7/25	Heather, Found this: http://fire.ak.blm.gov/docs/misc/crewlist.asp Looks like your man is in the lower 48. Haven't discovered where my sister is. She'll probably call this weekend when her 14 days are up. (Before going on to the next thing.) Robbie Good job, Robbie. Heather, for the meaning of EBC, take a look at the ICS Unit Identifiers via the Links page, the last postings under Federal, it's a pdf file. In case you don't know, ya can usually search a document by positioning the cursor at the top of the page and simultaneously holding down the control and s buttons. Enter the unit identifier in the subject space. I haven't tried it in this case, will leave that to you. It may be that you'll only get a record of the unit requesting the resource, not the actual fire they are on. But at least it will give you general location. Ab.
7/25	I don't know if this is worthy of posting on your site but this is a picture of me sporting my fab new boots that I am way excited about. Special thanks to Nick's for not being sexist jerks like so many of the other boot makers/vendors. FireChica
7/25	Family folks, I want to be sure you supporters see this as it pertains to many kinds of acutely stressful incidents and lists some good info. Ab. Attached is the handout we use for our local critical incident stress management (CISM) team whenever we do a stress intervention. The first half is a list of stress reactions that emergency responders commonly experience in the hours, days and weeks following a critical incident. The second part is "12 things to try" to help alleviate the symptoms. The guys on the line have one advantage over the dispatchers and office folks - they get plenty of strenuous exercise to help the body cope with the physical reactions. But, sometimes we forget that there is still a human being under the dirty nomex. vfd cap'n
7/25	Lost sons and brothers, Sammi, you're right, there are no words to describe it. I've also dreaded seeing someone walk up to my porch with news like that. Before it was because of fire...now its because of the fact my husband is both a timber faller and does it on fires in the summer. It will be extremely difficult for the families as well as the communities in which these boys grew up to come to terms with. McCall was devastated when two of our jumpers died in Colorado not so long ago. One day you're looking at them saunter down the sidewalk or across the tarmac, and then...their laugh is gone. All the more reason to treasure one another while we're still here, and honor those we've had the good fortune to get to know. Fire Momma
7/24	Dear Ab and Heather from Texas, My SO is on a Helitack crew on the Blackwell (Now the Black Frog Complex). He is getting 2 days R&R and will be home tomorrow afternoon (we live within a hour of the fires). I will ask him if he has seen the Tazlina Hotshots. I will email back when I get some info. Hopefully tomorrow! AMM Thanks for the feedback AMM.
7/24	Hi there. I ventured across your website a few weeks ago and wow, what a great resource. I'm dating a hot shot that I met over the winter. He is on an Alaskan Type I crew, the Tazlina Hotshots. I've gotten pretty good at getting fire info. on the web, but can't ever seem to get specific crew assignment info. For instance, he is on one of the Idaho fires right now and I'm trying to maybe find out which one. I think he's on the Hot Creek or maybe even Cramer or Blackwall fires and I really want to know which one. I'm pretty freaked out after the two deaths and the news is making Idaho sound pretty dangerous right now too. Any suggestions? Thanks for your time, Heather in Texas It is difficult to get specific crew assignment info. The crews let their home unit know where they're going first, but when they are demobed, they can dispatched somewhere else. Some regions like the SW (Region 3) have a Sit300 that is available to the public in which they list the crews from their region and where they've gone (or they think they've gone), and the visiting crews that are working in Region 3. Several years ago regions making that info available was more widespread. Things changed 2 years ago for some reason (9/11? too hard to keep up with? too easy to be in error?) Let me check around for the AK info. It may be there in some pdf file. Ab.
7/24	Honey's Back Home I got a laugh out of the husband asleep in the front room with his head on his pack. First , he is just itching to get on a fire and it seems like everyone else is going out except him. The kids call this the "Mr. Grummpybutt "stage. The scanner is on 24/7 and he repacks the red pack a few times and even finds a new package of Fruit of the Looms that he bought last year in camp! Almost like Christmas- except its just unders! When the call comes in -he's gone and happy. The cell phone becomes a lifeline and we spend all our time on the internet researching the fire he is on. His voice starts sounding tired and satisfied with the job and fire. At last, he's home. We get the summary of fire with all the funny stories and pranks pulled. Then the Rip Van Winkle nap. He sleeps for about three days on the front room floor and wakes up when his girls cook his favorite foods. Then the deep stories start and we hear about close calls or about someone who was injured or how he saved a house with his crew . This is a sobering time- we hold him close. This only lasts a bit until he gets itchy to go out again. We wouldnt miss it for the world, we love our Firedog! Red Army Wife
7/23	Well just to let you know I did not kick him out because he asked for food.....we had bacon, lettuce, tomato sandwiches, later fresh raspberries and crème. My prayers and certainly thoughts go to the families and the crews that have to endure the loss of the young FF's who died at Challis today. I grieve for them and cannot even begin to imagine how one endures the loss of such young, healthy beautiful sons. Last year our baby boy (24) was working for Greyback when the van crashed and at least 20 people called me before we found out for sure he was not with those crews. it is hell to want to know so bad if it was one of your own and then a guilty relief when you find out your son is ok... such a mixed bag of emotions. Everytime this happens my first though is,,,,,If I saw them coming up the walk to tell me I would not be standing by the time they got to the door. Can't even imagine the devastation,,,,,,, for the new ones on the list......we all have to remember that these crews are highly trained. Safety is suppose to be the #1 priority. They have so many safety precautions in place and they train constantly to be able to gut react to incidents that happen. If we knew how many FF total there are out there on the lines compared to the injuries and certainly fatalities the percentages are way in favor of your guy or gal not getting hurt. Just keep praying and trust your FF to do his/her best. Sammi
7/23	Sammi, TreeHggr, FireChica,Fire Momma, Nerd, Dawn, OD, et. al. and Ab's- So now we're discussin' dinner? Fewer subjects create greater havoc about our humble abode than food and it's preparation and presentation. Mom has always said that being married to the @*^%$ boys is a burden none should bear alone. She should know. She had to deal with Dad and his two brothers and she said they were bad enough. Due to a family emergency years back, she pretty much raised her brothers and ran the house while both her parents worked- unheard of in the prim and proper 1950's. But Mom saves a fair bit of vituperation for her two cubs of positive ancestry. She sez the Dad and Uncles were bad, but us boys are worse by a damn sight. Needless to say, Mom tends to be extremely fair in any argument and takes our wives side. Back in the days when I was packing, working the odd movie job, or getting up early for any other reason, you could bet next weeks pay that there was Mom. Breakfast ready, a pot of coffee and enough lunch to carry a squad through a shift or so. God forbid one should become faint with hunger while tackin' shoes on old Dobbin. Then, short of coming home gassed to the gills, there was dinner. Mom grew up in the hills, but of somewhat genteel stock. Dad's outfit on the other hand was still struggling through the Neanderthal era. Dad's bunch ate everything fried- in about a quart of grease. This included the coffee. Dad grew up with indigestion at home. I really think he went to the woods just to get a decent meal. Everything was also cooked extra well. Actually, well done everything in the woods was standard. No refrigeration- so cook it or get whatever was making a home in your food. The folks get hitched- enter Mom stage right with dinner- lamb (which Dad can't abide) and vegetables (which he won't eat). Dad saws through the main course which is rare to perfection and turns as pale as the meat. Mom spends several decades learning to desecrate beef and pork to Hubby's taste. So I grow up in the hills eating everything well done, fish, fowl or four legged. Mom and my brother still manage to cook meat well done but not cremated. They also eat lamb and other meat medium rare. But back to basics, Mom can cook, and she's good at it. She also forced my brother and I to learn to cook, which looking back over 30 some odd years was basically the lioness teaching the cubs to hunt. This has stood me in good stead through many a failed relationship and one that's still strong. It has also kept a few packers from mutiny on the high peaks when the trail crew cook said they wern't getting up. A quick note about Dad. Every year he does the turkey for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Damn fine job if you like your bird dry as an Arab's sandal. When Mom had to go away from time to time to help with family emergencies and the like, Dad cooked. Night was fried hamburgers, fried potatoes and pork and beans. It's a meal I still love, but night after night gets a little stale. Breakfast as kid was an adventure. Fried bacon, fried eggs and fried potatoes (do we discern a pattern here?). Occasionally though, even Dad got tired of the same ol same ol and reverted to cereal. Not just any cereal. Out came Mom's largest mixing bowl. Into this went three or four kinds of cereal, any cereal, as long as it wasn't kids stuff. Rice Krispies, Special K, Wheaties. Give it stir. Dump a cup or so of milk, a cup or so of hot water, half a stick of real butter and sugar and salt to taste. I was in my twenties before I could eat breakfast without getting violently ill and still cannot eat cereal. My wife was essentially raised by her Grandmother who eked out a living on Social Security. Her mom drank, drugged and god knows what else. When my wife to be left for greener pastures, it was with the help of some fine people who were mutual friends. Her Grandmother was wonderful baker, but the stipend barely covered day to day stuff. My wife to be's mom was taking my wife to be's paychecks and using them for some nefarious purpose- certainly not to improve the home grounds. Needless to say, my wife's ability to cook is somewhere near nil. She's sure as hell rather go put the finish on some horse or work fence than spend time over a stove. Now, those who know me will relate that I can be somewhat south of sensitive. In fact, 'cold nosed bastard' has been spoken more than once- my Mom included. So, insensitive lout that I am, there have been times when what was placed on the table was met with a "What the hell's this?" or "Christ, how'd you manage to screw this up?". And many times I have asked in all innocence what is for dinner and been told "Leftovers". To which I've replied "Leftovers? How the hell can they be leftovers when I've never seen the originals?" This has led to tears, words and an invitation to do something anatomically impossible. Telling her to watch what Mom does in the kitchen gets a tepid response at best. Mom, ever one to side with her eldest, will declare "Oh hell, &*$#@%^! You cook!" So, just to keep some semblance of peace within the neighborhood, I cook when I get the chance. My wife loves it. She loves it so much that if my team is not on call or we are not working OT, she'll try every trick in the book to get me in the kitchen. So last night I get hungry. L----- (the Engine boss' girlfriend- who also can't make water steam) comes over. I've got a house fulla women. 2 who can't cook and my daughters who I refuse to let cook at their tender age. And the dog and the cat. So, I can already tell who's gonna feed this mob and it's forty miles to the nearest take-out. So, Sammi and all, here's what we had. Boneless chicken breast in lemon, butter and rosemary. Baked slow. French cut green beans with fine cut and fried bacon with the dripping removed, butter and salt and pepper, baked slow. A homemade pesto (we make our own), a clam sauce of tomato and basil with clams (no Oil) and a fish sauce, again, tomato and basil with sardines. The sauces were simmered slow. Ravioli and rigatoni noodles, garlic bread and a South African white wine or a South African red wine (Shiraz). Corona beer for Dad. Fresh Fruit for dessert. Lots of good conversation. The ladies and westinghouse did the dishes. Sure, sounds like a lotta barnyard effluence, but it's the little things like dinner, doing a few loads of laundry or just wiping down the shower or making the bed that make my wife's life easier. And in reality, mine. It' has not been the easiest of roads for us. My wife learning not to take offense at every little thing about the kitchen and me learning to be a skosh more sensitive (though I'm no closer than the missing link to being a 'new age man'). So, we put up witha lot of guff from our spouses as we see it. And they from us. The folks just celebrated their 40th, us our 8th, my brother and sister in law their 15th. My grandfolks saw time past their 50th before they passed on. Married, they saw the depression, WWII, Korea, one son off to Vietnam and his safe return and great grand children. I guess that we all must be doing something right. CacheKing
7/23	Sammi, So, I'm wondering...What was for supper? Fire Momma
7/23	Fire Chica, Now THAT's what I like to see. Someone with a constructive idea! Ab, I'm totally in support of a personals section here. I have the utmost faith you could pull that off in a workable way. Bring it on! Fire Momma
7/22	relationship update: I got home from work this pm and the pick-up was in it's spot. I come in the house and he (husband) is laying in the middle of the floor with his head on his pack sound asleep. So being the sweet little wife I am, went out, fed the dog, watered the garden etc, etc. He did come out abt an hour later and helped me pick berries. After that he decided to change the oil in my Rover before he cleans up.....so I am here doing my nightly computer time and he just now comes in and yells,,,,WHEN'S SUPPER!!!!!!!!! It's so nice to have my man home.....somebody send me this the next time I complain about having to talk to the dog.... Sammi Oh and I like the idea of a match-making-site......we could do wonders with our skills and knowledge of relationships.....so you girls on the lines send in the names, we'll put them into categories and match them up with possibilities.. Later I think cache king needs to write a book. I would buy it....what an interesting life and your descriptions are awesome.......gotta go cook something.....or we could have yummy MRE's........that would be a treat....sammi
7/22	Actually, I think it has a lot to do with how your significant other treats you, either at home or when on assignment. Are they involved in the day to day stuff when they are around, in touch and interested in home life when on a fire? A FF with this type of attitude is a keeper -is able to balance passion for both work and family, although OF COURSE there are times it won't be easy. But-so what? Anything worth doing is usually not all that easy.... Or is your FF so lost in the lifestyle that you hardly register on the radar screen, even when they are home? Do they look at it as an opportunity to avoid family responsibilities? Avoid this type if you are interested in anything long term. It could be at whole lot worse folks-at least our FF have a better chance of reaching home then the soldiers in Iraq, some of whom haven't been home in a year. Treehggr
7/22	I have read through all of the "relationship" talk, and honestly I have to say that when getting involved with a firefighter, you have to know what you are in for. Someone needs to set you down and explain it all. When I married my FF he was a Marine. And I was well trained (by his mother) in what to expect - a stinky man who comes home late, tired and grumpy, many times away...2 weeks, 2 months, a 6 month deployment, maybe even a year or more AWAY. So when it came to changing his profession, his CALLING to fire. I just figured...Well, at least he is not being shot at in some far away country! It is hard with 2 small daughters now, then we only had 1 baby. Now his girls miss him terribly. But they do understand that what their dad does is important. At least we get to see him every now and then. If he was a employed Marine, we would not see him for 6 months or more at a time. At least this way they get to see what he looks like every now and then. And today I spend our 8 year wedding anniversary ALONE, for the 2nd year. Last year he called me saying he was on his way the Sequoia Nat'l Park fire, on our anniversary. Maybe for our 10 year we will renew our vows...IN WINTER!!! Good luck to all, the relationships ARE WORTH IT! after all, you have to have something to want to come home for! Dawn
7/22	Nerd on the Fireline, Glad you like the idea. And as far as your guys go - scrub 'em up and send me pictures. ;-)See Ab? This could be very popular. Who knows, maybe you could even start a business . . . FireChica
7/22	Whooo-hooo, firefighting chica! What a great idea…and I love your personal…but can we post personals for crew mates? Some of my guys could seriously use girlfriends…if only to relieve the atmosphere in crummy by making them bathe more often. Nerd on the Fireline (so now any of my crewmates who’ve figured out my alias can come after me…)
7/22	Ab, Given all the speculation into FF love perhaps you should put up a personals section on the website where lonely FF could find sympathetic partners. That would be a riot! I know how mine would read: "Cute firefighting chica seeking little househusband to feed dog and pay bills while gone on dispatch. Must not be intimidated by woman with pulaski!" Signed - the cute firefighting chica herself
7/22	First I want to thank the bunch of you willing to slog through this "should we, or shouldn't we have" relationship thing. And for heaven's sake, if you really knew me you'd know I'm completely unable to tear anyone's arm off. I'm not big enough...Then again... I suppose my "mouth" (fingers on the keyboard) does pose a significant threat. Like Cache King (thanks for your colorful stories CK) many of us have found ourselves at the end of a relationship with our head in our hands wondering what the hell we were thinking. We evaluate, and overevaluate. Some of us get really drunk and reallllly overevaluate. Because, you know, its very, very, very important (we think) to figure out the "why" of it all. Like figuring out "Why" would magically conjure some kind of salve and we could go on to that "perfect" relationship with all of these gold jewels of lessons we (supposedly) gleaned. Well that process loads you down with a whole lot of emotional baggage. The search for the "perfect" relationship is a painful one. Expecting perfection out of ourselves is unfair, and exponentially more unfair to expect it from our companions. So...I've learned to look back and genuinely value the nuggets of wonderful things that happened during those times and the incredible memories... I've learned not to wad up the whole "relationship" like it was a paper bag full of dog crap and pitch it in the trash. I've stopped evaluating (though my ex would heartily question that. Being my ex is certainly not a pleasant experience as you might imagine.) And just get on with things. Sammi, I asked about your proximity to other FF wives because where we lived in the Sierras, I was pretty much alone. Our social circle was nil during the winter, but hey during the summer the compound was filled with what my little ones just called "da guys." I had quite a support group during my second and third pregnancies. The crew all watched my belly grow during the first part of the season and eagerly anticipated the "calving" (yea...I know...) in the height of fire season. When the babies were born, a hand full of the guys gingerly came over and hunkered on the couch to take a look. The way their big hands held my new babies brought tears to my eyes. Then my third baby stopped breathing. I'd given her a bath, wrapped her up in a blanket and tucked her in on the couch while I went to another part of the house to do something. When I came back, she was bluish white. My reaction was everything you're not supposed to do. I picked her up, shook her and blew in her face. Her little systems kicked in somehow and we drove down two different winding canyons to get her to the hospital. My point here isn't "Poor, poor us." My point is, those guys on that crew acted like a bunch of hovering uncles. They somehow had become emotionally invested. They intimately experienced both the good and bad times of our family...and by the end of the season, a number of them had plans of their own. All I'm saying is that, waiting for, or expecting a perfect relationship...or believing that a relationship with a FF will only lead to pain and disappointment is not fair. We all deserve to be happy. "Family" can be the core. And family composition can take on different forms. I just think that happiness comes in chunks. And we should try hard not to throw those away in an attempt to escape the discomfort of an ended relationship. That's all. Fire Momma
7/22	CasheKing, Thanks for sharing that with us. OD
7/22	About the recent discussions about relationships: I won't pretend to know all there is about relationships, fire and the state of the union (or disunion). But to add a few nickels worth of experience, I'll reach back through the mists (or smoke, fog or dust) of time. For those of you who have loved and lost, those trying to hang on and those that have made it work, my best to you. It is not easy, on spouses, kids, family, and relationships getting started. Making a relationship work with one spouse gone all the time, whether chasin' trucks down the road, cattle or pack strings, or fires is a tough row to hoe. Dad went to work in the woods at 16, where his dad worked, his uncles and his brothers. When Mom married up, she left a comfortable house for a three room cabin furnished with bats, mice and the occasional snake in what was called family camp. Flush toilets were unknown in camp, having been replaced with a two-holer, spiders compliments of the house. Winters were in a logging town where the housing was miserable. Somewhere along the way I came along, then my brother. One family of many who were logging gypsies- Standard in winter, Camp Curry, Camp 16 or some other in summer. When the camps closed, Dad ran the then fledging truck shop. By himself. The trucks were second-third and fourth hand logging trucks that were used to haul milled lumber to where ever. We usually saw Dad about once a week on Sunday, unless he was called out to get some rig ready for the road. As the trucks were replaced with new stuff, they upped the fleet, but not the staff. At it's height, Dad was in charge of 21 highway rigs that hauled to all of California, sometimes to Nevada and Southern Oregon. Mom used to wake us kids up to eat dinner with Dad just so we could spend time with him. I joined Scouts at age 11 in a extremely active outdoors troop, so I spent a lot of time gone in the summers. Then at 16, I started packing. Through High School I packed and did the scouting thing. Never has one been so enamored with the mountains as I. At 19 I went to work in Yosemite as a government packer. There, I got my baptism of fire and began another parallel love. My folks now never saw me. The night I graduated from high school and the night I got out of community college, I was in the woods. My friends, some from outside of packing, but most from the packing community and from fire was where my world revolved. I could never get enough of the mountains. I counted myself the luckiest guy alive to get called to backfill for the firefighters on my days off from the barn, and yet, just as ready to hit the trail back into the hills. In 1995, I finally got married. Most, if not all considered this to be a miracle of minor proportions. Many, if not all cautioned my wife to be before we tied the knot about you'll never see him- at least while there are fires or a trail open. My wife, who comes from the horse business herself had a pretty good idea of what she has getting into, and what she was getting (Tho Mom sez she got the worst of the trade). We've two daughters aged 5 and 4. Through the years, I've had a handful of failed relationships. Some, were most definitely not meant to be, others went the west because the time a relationship needs wasn't given or available. Some, I didn't try very hard to work at and others, well, I can still get the twinge. The job I hold now is full time fire. My wife and kids love it. My wife knows the risks and prefers them over the risks I took through the years with the stock end of the business. The fire staff makes the family part of theirs and my daughters will pass through the fire house like angels of good will dispensing hugs and kisses to every firefighter therein. They are heroes in my daughters eyes, and I am just Dad. They light up when I say I'm going to a fire, then remember that fires mean Dad's gone for a while. Letters written from firecamp to home, and cell phone calls make a big difference. Pictures from where I was and a wall map of the US show them where Dad is now. The T-shirts are a big hit for sleep wear, pins and cups from different states also help. It's damn tough on my wife. The bills, school, swimming lessons, mechanical problems, the house, no one else but her. My parents are a great help for her to turn to when needed and she has some fantastic friends that get together with her. But still, I'm not there. Of course, by spring she's ready to throw me out at the first hint of woodsmoke. Coming home means getting Dad's filthy laundry done ASAP for the next call, extra hours getting caught up at his regular fire job and making sure we get out to town with the girls. Hit a playground, maybe some shopping and a movie. An ice cream. Simple things. I have been extremely lucky to have a family that will go the extra mile when it comes to Dad. My brother is a mechanic like my father. His life, like mine and Dad's are different universes in a parallel existence. My Mom, my wife and my sister in law have all faced the same problems that many firefighters face in relationships. Long hours, partners gone, called out or paged out at all hours not knowing when you'll get back, filthy clothes, lack of family time. Again, the three of us are lucky for the fabulous women in our lives and our kids who have adapted to making a life with a part time father due to work. I doubt I have cast any pearls here in this long tome. But I know that with love, persistence, communication and a willingness to try to work together ( and if he/she is that special to you) you'll make it work out. It's taken a lot of effort on our part, but it's been worth every ounce of sweat to pursue the multiple loves in my life. I wish you all the best out there. CacheKing Thanks Cache King. Ab.
7/22	Well Ab's.......I promise not to explode unless I yell at ya first...now Fire Momma on the other hand is likely to come out swinging so watch out (kidding) ..... one thing about personal relationships, everyone has an opinion, with a little right in all of them. To nerdy.....sorry, I felt like I was insulting you if I said just nerd. Your description of the people in your crew not having significant others back home waiting was actually very sad. Even tho they probably have family it is so very important for young people to have someone special waiting, whether you are doing fire, military or some type of job that takes you away from home. I did the 'adopt a Marine" for the recent combat thing and it was very touching for me to hear from a 19 yr old who had NO ONE to write to back home. So we adopted each other..Guess the Dixie Chicks song about the soldier was right on. Don't you think that is one reason the crews become so close.....my guys have been bringing buddies home to visit for years. I don't have any answers but apparently from what we are hearing here, we also have lonely FF out there who need relationships that can also survive the fires. and guess what, that puts a whole new spin on the whole relationship issue. Now how are we gonna fix that?????? Now I am going out to water the garden, feed the animals, check the fence in the back, wash my Rover and then do the laundry all the while telling the dog about my day at work.......... sammi Thanks Sammi and the rest of you who keep the home fires burning. Ab.
7/22	OD, Married Hot Shot Foremen: There's at least one on the SQF. Married to my son's godmother. Not sure if he's still the Foreman...think he may have moved on to fire management by now. Married Smokejumpers: Approximately 10-15% of the McCall jumpers are married. A small handful have children. The Payette has a small family compound on Mission to accommodate those that live in McCall only during the summer. A small number of jumpers own homes and are settled in the area. For a specific breakdown call N, the base manager (that is if he has time to answer his phone...which isn't likely right now.) (N's wife was the nurse who broke the news to me as she swished my last pregnancy test in the Petri dish. ) Long term relationships? Not easy...or even probable given the dynamics and demands of the fire world...but definitely possible. Fire Momma
7/21	This is an apologie from the real AK I have just logged on and read all the nasty things my sister has written about fire and the married life. I think she is wrong in what she did in posing as me, and telling people the things that she did, and I want to make things right. She works in fire too and is very opinionated, and reads the site everyday just like me. Ps Sammie and Fire Mamma I read your post and you have my best wishes Everyone eles Its getting tropical out there so take care of yourselves and each other. SAFTEY FIRST AK It's all alright AK. On this site we are quick to forgive. Fire season is stressful and the internet is fairly impersonal. No face-to-face, expressions, body language. No other person present to make us watch out for what we are saying. Tell your sister she's welcome too. Fire Momma you promise not to club anyone with an arm? Sammi, you promise not to EXPLODE (unless necessary)? Ab.
7/21	Fire Momma and Sammi: I hope I keep my sense of humor and gain the wisdom and philosophy you have…I tried to be a Hotshot’s girlfriend, and it’s a hard row to hoe…now I’m looking at coming at the same thing from the other side (as a FF myself) and I’m gaining a lot more insight into so many of things he used to do that drove me up the wall. As badly phrased as it was, AK has a point, though, and one I’ve found a lot of FF would share. There’s French Foreign Legion aspect to what we do…sometimes it doesn’t seem fair to get involved with another person at all, knowing what we’re going to put them through and knowing that fire will most likely come first. It’s hard seeing the look in a guy’s eyes when your pager goes off in the middle of a date…and even worse calling in a rush to tell him the date’s cancelled because you’ve got to go fight the dragon. And then having to explain to a crewmate’s girlfriend on the way out the door that even though he’s not that far away, no, he can’t get away for a couple of hours to come see her. We were cutting line through an aspen grove one day and our squad boss pointed out a “Widowmaker on the left”, and somebody pointed out none of us were married…”Girlfriend pisser-offer on the left”…and then somebody pointed out that nobody on the line had a girlfriend…and the line got sort of quiet. Somebody suggested “Pet-starver on the left”, but by that point nobody’s heart was in it anymore. Nerd on the Fireline
7/21	Fire Momma and Sammie and anyone eles that I have offended, I must apologize for coming off so ruff and gruff. Its just that right now I'm at home waiting for that next call and I have friends that are wives and husbands of the hotshots and I am just tired of hearing them piss and moan about being alone. and coming on this site and reading about it was just the straw that broke the camels back. Sorry for taking it out on all of you, it wasn't fair. AK
7/21	In regards to AK's post; Dude sounds to me like you have been "Burned" on the relationship thing. I think you may want to step back and look around you. I am willing to bet there are Many of your co-workers that are married, and have been for many years. Like I said, mine is from a FF family, my father-in-law is a retired FMO, who still works in the FF industry and my mother-in-law is still right there beside him, Grandmother-in-law is retired from the FS too, she worked as a lookout, and Grandfather-in-law (who is not with us anymore) was a FS FF as well as LA County, and there is a Uncle that retired FF too. We have friends, all married and have been as well as the newly weds (some Husband FF's, some wife FF's) who all love and support their FF. Relationships are all different, people change, thats a fact of life, there are divorces no matter what your job is. And I do agree with you on one thing, We do know what we are getting ourselves into in these relationships, And if you truly love the FF, and respect what he/she is doing (as with any job a loved one would hold not just FF) you are going to stick it out for the long haul. One key element...Respect each other. Oh and BTW, I am also in the outfit too, not a Ff but in support, with a 10 yr old, a 20 yr, and 4-H, family and a whole bunch of critters. Life is Grand!! Abs, Fire Momma, Sammi, and everyone, Just love em, and pray for em. Firecookie
7/21	Robbie, Like I said...I'm tryyying to grow old gracefully. Just can't say its working very well. Fire Momma
7/21	Ciao and all, no questions go unanswered here. Sometimes the answers are way more, longer than you ask for. probably because we do get tired of talking to the dog. and the dog does not answer back, not yet....... We live up in the mountains of the northwest, never lived within the service area. if I could go back a few years and have the chance to live in a camp, compound area I really would like to. Actually we bought our land and built our home (log) way back when the land was cheap and we had slaves (the kids). We chose to live far enough away from a town that if someone comes up our road they have a reason to be here and so we have to travel quite a distance to work etc....but the trade-off is worth it. In the early years of our marriage I was so busy keeping the kids healthy and going to school myself I really did not consider how nice it would have been to have FF wives to chit-chat with. I homeschooled the kids and wrote articles for a few magazines about our lifestyle.....so he had his focus and I had mine and we met in the middle. And it worked. ..... Now that I am much older and have kids who are FF I really do see the importance of having the opportunity to swap info, stories and support with others even if it is via the net. I do know the other families around us that are in FF but not on a good friend, buddy basis. One of the big problems I see within the service and the latest thread about whiners is a prime example.....experienced FF wives/significant others usually are not willing to be honest to the potential newbie wives and tell them like it is. if they knew about the expected bumps in the relationship they might be able to smooth them out easier. Lonely, boring, stressful, disappointing, exciting, proud, jealous, crazy making.....and the list goes on and on......and the fact is....there really is no way to describe the lifestyle because everyone of us is sooooo different and the circumstances are so different for each of us....... bottom line. We are connected to a breed of people that cannot be explained, cannot be domesticated (kidding) and we are lucky if they can be trained to use the indoor toilet. (not kidding here) but they are our loves and we learn to live with the extremes they bring. Honestly, if I could go back and change a few things sure I would but change him nope!!!!!!! Fire is who he is and if I took that out he would not have that sparkle in his eyes that I see when he has the pickup packed and I get that last hug.....now when that pickup comes back with several weeks worth of stinky smelly non-recognizable items that I am pretty sure did not leave here the sparkle doesn't matter a twit......just lovem and know they really do wish they could be in two places at once, but we all know they have to choose that mountain...does not make it easier to swallow......it is just not possible for them not too........keep praying they all go home safely....sammi
7/21	AK and Dick, Just adding in my two cents on the relationship debate. While I think it is true that a firefighter can have a family life, I think it is another story if that firefighter wants a career as a Hotshot or a Smokejumper. I think AK was correct on pointing out that it is not fair to the family. I have heard many an engine boss comment on how he had done a season or two as a jumper only to be faced with making a choice between his wife and his job "I came home from a detail and found all my stuff in the front yard!" I personally have yet to meet any married Hotshot Superintendents. (Has anyone? I'd be curious to know! If anyone does know of such a case: how long married and how successfully?) As one young hotshot put it to me "You could be a Hotshot and have a relationship if it weren't for the fact that girls need attention!" Never a truer word was spoken! (Who can blame them? I thought it was very wise for that young man to realize that.) So yes, I think you can have a fire career and a marriage, but if you want to spend your life as a smokejumper or a shot, well, that's a job for single folks. If you want to be married, then get on an engine. That way you are not depriving your family. (At least, not to the same degree.) I think that goes for both men and women alike. OD
7/21	Response to AK about whining: First of all we do not "meat" each other we "meet" each other. In all the hundreds of technical books that have come and gone through our home I have NEVER seen a technical resource book on what to expect if we meet and want to have a relationship with a FF. I have never seen a book or pamphlet on what to expect life to be like if you, we, expect to have a long relationship with FF. (maybe in my spare time I'll write a "How to Live with a FF in your life") Notice, I did not say "Live with a FF" Whether it be structural, full time or seasonal wildland anyone that is married to or involved with a FF is in for a huge surprise and there is no way to prepare someone for the lifestyle. So, no AK, we did not know what we were getting!!!!! For a newbie it looks sexy, hunky, exciting and oh so romantic. Let me assure you, as the wife to one and mom to several the new sexy stuff wears off real fast and reality hits and you realize when he said he is on fire two weeks and time off,,,,that did not mean fire two weeks and home a month etc....sometimes we are lucky to see them two times in two months or longer. And I also know when they are home, after a long shower, lots of food, some loving and some hard sleep they are looking at the sky again hoping the phone rings real soon. So those that have been left holding down the fort, paying the bills and keeping the kids safe and the dogs fed are thinking, wait a minute,,,,I missed you a lot and you are happily rested and ready to leave me again....not fair......it is a hard life for all involved. Some relationships can survive but we all know the stats are against it. We have a son that did wlff for several years, met a FF/paramedic and after a couple of years of trying to live the lifestyle, they realized the relationship was worth more to them than the fires so they both left the service, are doing other occupations and have two beautiful daughters,,,,,,now their lives are "normal" and if asked they would tell you the decision was hard but the right one for them......and that is the key here "for them"....... Honestly, we have been living this lifestyle a LONG time and I still sometimes throw a hissy fit when something breaks or I need support from my husband and he is off to God's Country to save someone else's house or trees and my house is falling apart or my trees needs water etc....the guys and gals on the fire are hero's no doubt but there are a lot of people male and female holding down the fort so to speak who support them so they can be out there......... To the FF: you need to tell your significant other very often how much you care for them and how much you appreciate their support......you need to find a way to make them a part of your fire service experience. I get rolls of film, now disks, real often of the fires etc. They know I enjoy making their scrapbooks and that is my way of feeling close to them when they are gone....another FF we know buys silver charms that depicts the places he goes for his wife's charm bracelet. Everyone of you can start a t-shirt collection for your girl....or guy. Sometimes the silly corny things mean the most. Nope not a whiner am I, If I am upset, you'll not hear a whine but a HUGE EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!! Keepum safe and look out for each other........Sammi
7/20	Heh, I get the feeling that Fire Momma is capable of taking an offender's arm off and beating them with it. Fairly politely of course but no bones about it. Well, maybe humerous-radius-ulna in the arm. Emphasis on the humor-ous. Heh. Like my sarge in the army. Nothing personal toward anyone of course Ab. Thanks so much for being editor. Glad this site exists. It's a barrel of laughs, has good info and exchange and just feels good. Robbie
7/20	AK: I beg to differ with your opinion on staying single and having a fire career. My personal record: 38 fire seasons, 35 years married to the same spouse, OSC1 and Forest Fire Staff Officer. (Oh yeah: 2 great kids, a small cow herd, 4-H and FFA leader, .....a life outside of fire!) Gee, imagine the possibilities if I had stayed single. Dick Mangan
7/20	Just an observation...AK, you probably wouldn't want to walk into a room full of FF wives or husbands slinging the kind of philosophy you just posted. Perhaps that works for you, and if so, kudos back at cha for being honest with yourself regarding your own shortcomings. Many of us though, met our FF spouses when we were all young and not as "focused" as you seem to be on what does and does not make for a successful relationship. Most of us didn't have children...or homes then. We just had one another... and our companions had fire. We did the best we could, and many of us came up short in terms of answers. I guess you can count yourself lucky you've got it all figured out. For me, even with all the rough spots and the ultimate demise of our relationship, I wouldn't have traded it for the world. Some folks make relationships work. Some don't. There are no pat answers. And, as Ab gently suggested, but I'll just say...trite answers are offensive. Fire Momma Readers of familysaid, a post came in that I didn't post here. Read theysaid for 7/20 and search on AK if you're interested in what the Fire Momma is talking about. Ab.
7/17	Sammi, Can I ask if you lived on a Forest Service compound, or in a town with people who didn't wear green pants and t-shirts everyday? You're stories of the way your house looks in fire season is great. Early on, did you have other wives around to keep you company? or just to "check in" with? I was fortunate in that there was an old retired logger who still lived in the abandoned logging camp where the Johnsondale Forest Service station was in the Sierras. He had a wonderful, wise and kind wife who'd check on me to make sure I was okay. Other times I'd drag my ass over to her house and just sink into one of her overstuffed chairs and sit there all bleary eyed. She'd let me feel sorry for myself for a bit, give the kids something to play with, then launch into one of her stories in such an animated way...it was wonderful. I'd look at her...all grisled and laughing...and realize she'd made it through some pretty rough spots and she was still kind. Her eyes still danced. I decided then that I very much wanted to grow old that way...to be laughing and warm and kind...not angry and resentful. I think I'm landing somewhere in the middle. Here's to keeping our eyes open for things to laugh about! Ciao, Fire Momma
7/17	well, I am thrilled that you are all honest enough say, FF is an addiction and it does destroy relationships, marriages, families. I have been reading another list and most of them are young married to Ff and still basking in the glow of "he is my hero". Well, I will give them the season, or at most a couple of years and probably most of them will have had a real dose of reality. My husband and three sons are ff and it has been a long road of stinky clothes and terrified when the bulletin comes on the news of FF down. We have been married a long time with my husband being a FF the whole time. My salvation was having a job that takes a lot of energy and I love. Also I have NEVER told him don't go....even tho I know he would stay. All my guys LOVE Fire.....a couple do structure in the winter and even tho wildland wins their hearts they still have to have that adrenaline fix. My advice to either male or female left at home.....get busy. Find something to do that will take up time and energy. You have to adapt to living with a real live "hero" and society is telling them all the time they are heroes. And most important in our marriage, I had to love him enough to "let" him do what he loves. Is it easy? Hell no!!!!!!!!! Right now I have red packs and all sorts of stuff laying in piles all over the house waiting for the phone to ring.......two of the guys are already out but lucky for me they have wives and homes of their own to mess up. Even with twenty + years of experience being left so they can go fight the tiger it is still hard to come home to an empty house every night and the only one to talk to is the dog. But it is worth it because I could never NOT Support him in doing what he truly loves. (and I do not understand the addiction to it. anyone got it figured out????) if you truly love them you will find a way to handle it, if it doesn't last at least enjoy the ride. it is worth it..... Sammi
7/17	Thanks to all who responded about my son & his wife. I think his situation is just a little different because this is not his wife's primary job and she wasn't doing this when they got married. She's not on the line, she in a support position (not to say those positions are any less important) and enjoys the travel and comradery. And, in a way, it's like a vacation... even tho the work is hard and the hours are long, it's a different scenario and the focus is on one thing... fire. At home, there are a thousand and one other things in the day to day job as well as day to day homefront. So, in a sense, she's away from the "responsibilities". At first, he was very supportive... go for it... enjoy. But as time goes on, it's becoming a bigger part of her life because of the training and meetings as well as the actual fire details. He still wants to support her, but feels like she could say no at least once in awhile. Yes, the money is nice and they both enjoy it, but they could also do well without it. And he does do things when she's gone... rebuilding cars, visiting friends, etc. But because he's never been in the actual situation, he can't imagine what it's like. You know, it would be nice if someone would make a video... like a training video... about life in a fire camp or what goes on behind the scenes. I know I was amazed my first time out, when I realized what all it takes to get things going... like showers, meals, potties, sleeping arrangements, etc. It might even make a good recruitment video. pt
7/17	Dear PT- I can relate one item that has helped my husband and I with fire separations, his cell phone! He calls every day (except for times when there are dead batteries, cell phone holes, and "heads up" fire assignments). We chat, gripe about whatever, and enjoy being in touch. It makes the time away easier, and it's something to look forward to-and makes the stay at home spouse feel included. Hope this helps -Treehggr
7/17	Hi Family Members, Here's an article by Judd Slivka of the Arizona Republic. He's a journalist who has fought fire. Summertime lost time for firefighters www.azcentral.com Firescribe PS Ab, please add this one too, also by Judd with Paul Matthews. Volatile 'Kinishba' fire grows www.azcentral.com
7/17	PT Even before I got into fire, I had a job that would take me out of the country for often months at a stretch. One thing I found that made it easier on my SO at the time was doing my best to be “present-in-absence”. I’d leave notes in places where I figured he’d find them (favorite books, the cereal box, his line pack, inside CD cases)…I’d write whole piles of letters to him or keep a journal, written to him, while I was gone and give it to him when I got back, so he’d know I was thinking about him. I’d try to include him in trip planning, get him fired up about the assignment too (hard to do on unpredictable fire assignments). In all fairness, though, I have to say it didn’t work; the relationship cratered after one particularly out-of-touch three-month absence. And it wasn’t because he didn’t support me, or wasn’t proud of me or didn’t love me or didn’t trust me; he’d just signed up to have a girlfriend, not a 4x6 photograph on the shelf and the occasional e-mail. I think it’s harder for guys too because when it’s the girl who’s gone, they feel kind of stranded or displaced…like it somehow diminishes their manhood that it’s the female who’s out having “adventures”. No matter how liberated or progressive or caring or understanding a person is, or either gender, it’s hard to cope with bucking the traditional gender roles. I had one boyfriend who was incredibly proud of everything I did until the day one of his buddies told him I was a better man than he was; that was the day before he dumped me. It takes a special person to be a “firespouse”…most of the folks I know on fire are either single, divorced, on the verge of divorce after every assignment, or married to another poor pyro with “flames in their eyes”. Firecookie’s totally right…it’s all in the mind. Good luck to your son, Nerd on the Fireline
7/17	Let me jump in with both feet. I have a younger sister, not a spouse, who is a firefighter. She is CONSUMED with the work she does. She trains, both PT and classes, lives, eats and breathes fire, fire tools, chainsaws, etc. ha! I have never seen someone who sleeps with a pulaski before. ha! ha! Summers she's gone for long times. Fire is her family, probably at this stage of her life it's more important than me, and we're close. She has a boyfriend and has had several others, but they seem peripheral and have tended to get jealous pretty fast, like "what's in it for me?" She is very cute and I think they imagined her spending the summer on their arm. Best thing would be for her to have someone who shared the fire passion. Next best thing is to have someone who has his own passion and can understand hers and just love the time he spends with her. Perhaps at some time other priorities will surface, like getting married and having children (I hope, I'd love to be an aunt some day), but right now it's ALL fire. Guess I won't hold my breath for those nieces/nephews. Wouldn't want to constrain her with my expectations, I love her too much, love having her around when she can be, love having her friends hang out with us, love hearing her stories and adventures. Guess that's what sisters are for. Robbie
7/17	Firecookie, I think you came up with a really great way of putting it...firefighters, whether a wife, husband, son or daughter...are working FOR the family. And it really is a "family" effort, both on the home front keeping the bills paid and the kids and animals alive and well, and on the fireline...keeping the bills paid. Also, the times away really do help us all focus on what is really important when the family unites...the finer points that get dulled by the everyday togetherness. So, yep, Firecookie, its a "mind thang." Thanks for reminding us all. Fire Momma
7/17	Being a FS FireWife for the past 12 years, I can honestly say I think we the families of the firefighters have the harder job than they do. Why? you ask, well we are the ones on the home front dealing with all the everyday (24/7) "Stuff" that goes on. While our FireFamily gets to to to distant places, and see things we will never see in our lives. I had a grudge for years over this, I was the homebody, took care of the kid and the critters, the house, bills and worked too. There were times when I came verrrry close to "Hating" my hubby for being gone. He got to get away from it all, no hassles with the home, You all know what I mean by that. But now years later, I have settled down into the groove of things, and believe it or not, I actually look forward to him being gone, LOL. It gives me time to do special things with my son (Mommy and Me days as he calls it), alone time, and also gives me the time to see how much we miss him and can't wait for him to come home. We tend to have great quickie vacations after he comes home from fires. As a family we always plan on special trips or projects to take when Dad comes home. So you see, its a mind thing, you just have to learn to adjust, and roll with the trips. Or you can look at it like our son does and "Do the Mo Money" dance, he has learned this due to hazard and OT pay means, we/he gets to go/do/buy something. LOL. Just remember one thing, our firefighter is working for us as a Family as well as for his job, and if yours is anything like mine, It's a Disease, its in their blood (long line of FS Fire in his family) you can actually see the flames in their eyes when they start talking about the past fires they have been on. So there ya go, one FireWife's opinion/advise. Hug em, Love em, and Pray for em. firecookie. Thanks to ALL fire family members who contribute, support us while we're away and who "tell it like it is". We love and appreciate you even as we keep our eyes on the smoke and flame. It's not easy when your partner is addicted to/ has a passion for/ or is otherwise compelled to serve in the capacity of fighting fire. Thanks to the families of the team folks who keep the resources flowing and to the families of dispatchers, too. Ab.
7/17	PT, I've been thinking about this since the question was posted, but, I really, honestly, don't think there's a way for anyone to provide advice on how your son can avoid feeling "left out" when his wife is out on a fire assignment. That responsibility really does sit on his shoulders, and depends to a great extent on how autonomous an individual he is. Does he enjoy private time? Time to do his "own thing"? Some relationships are established on the "joined at the hip" idea. Those relationships suffer in fire season. As a young mother with three little ones, we did all kinds of creative things to "help mommy stay sane." (Not sure if they worked...certainly didn't save my marriage.) I realize this isn't much help, but there were no emotional bandaides around for wives then either. I can only encourage you to encourage your son to buck up and believe in the strength of the relationship...and trust his wife. (This is a biggee in the fire scene.)...and learn to enjoy the personal time alone. Best to you, Fire Momma
7/16	As far as husbands/wives left behind -- I don't think he's gonna want to hear this, but here it is anyhow. For YEARS and YEARS and YEARS I was the one left behind. My husband came home when our first child was 3 months old. I guess I was kind of a rag during all those years, but there were the kids, working in fire, running the homefront, being married to a SMJ, etc. In the last 10 years though, the tables were switched, I was on a team, so we had our own "rotation" -- Talk about H--- to pay when I was gone!! I don't think he missed me (for those of you who DO know me, that is understandable) -- but what he was missing -- was being "left out." I was "out" and he was desk and house bound -- IT WAS A VERY HARD TRANSITION for someone who had always gone, and was caught by fire. I think it's a pretty ugly situation at times, and it takes a darned good patient person of either gender to keep on going. My suggestion is to just keep busy, get on with lots of things you'd like to accomplish when you have some of that precious time alone -- and also be happy at this point, that you don't have young uns around. Jealousy can really skyrocket -- not meaning "sexually" in my case -- but in "getting" to see the fire family and friends vs. the same old tired crowd at home.........I know alot of other people that feel the same way. At times it's a pick your poison situation......I know this is really "positive" help -- but that's the way it is folks. De-Throned (aka Cache Queen)
7/16	I'm a FS employee & went out years ago in support positions so I understand the excitement and adventure. I don't go out anymore, but my daughter-in-law is now part of a type 1 team and goes out alot. My son is having a tough time understanding and dealing with this... he's not a govt. worker. A good friend of mine told me about your website and I think it's a wonderful idea, however I didn't see any notes from husbands left behind. Do you ever get mail from the men who stay at home and deal with the every day regime? I'd like to tell my son about this, but don't know if he could relate so well to the women taking care of kids (no kids here). He loves his wife and wants her to be happy, but he's feeling very left out. Any suggestions? pt
07/06	Hi DS and welcome......we have a fairly slow list here but hopefully it will grow. I agree with Fire Momma......this can be a very lonesome, stressful life. We've been a FF family for a very long time and I still have times when I want to yell STAY HOME!!!!!!!! But, not once have I ever said "I don't want you to go".....because he would have stayed home. So it can be hard on relationships. There are lots of things everyone does to keep up with the FF and try to stay in touch. I personally have a new large map I keep every year on the freezer door and I mark the fires and put pictures, news clippings etc for them. Even the older ones will stand there looking at where they have been and start telling stories, adventures. I also have a pendant, a gold FF symbol, I put it on when the first one goes out and take it off for the season when the last one gets home. Just sorta my way to stay close. Probably all the significant others of the FF do things too and maybe will share...anyway....welcome and any help or support needed don't hesitate to say......Sammi
06/25	Hello DS & all, I've been reading through all the posts and sure wish there would have been a place like this when I was a young wife raising three babies on a Forest Service compound in an abandoned logging camp in the Sierras. It's wonderful, and extremely emotionally healthy to have others who understand what you're going through when fire season is in full swing. Ab, this family area is especially wonderful. Good job! You probably don't even know how many marriages you're potentially saving with this part of the site. It certainly came too late for my early attempts at domestic bliss. Oh well. Ciao, Fire Momma Many of us in fire have problems with our relationships, our loved ones who we leave behind during fire season. We hope this site helps. Ab.
06/23	Welcome DS! Congrats on your marriage! Although my husband and I have been married nearly 8 years, I also understand how hard those early into marriage separations can be. My husband did 8 years active duty Marine Corps, and 4 of those I was his wife. He was always leaving for some reason or another. The separations are hard, but the homecomings are great! Now that his specialty is wildland fire, the summers are hard when our girls and me are missing him, but his time home is worth the separation. I am here if you need someone to chat with. Dawn
06/23	Hey all, My husband is a wildland firefighter. We've only been married for 8 months and fire season already here! My husband is on an engine crew based out of Browns Park in Colorado...they've already named a fire after me! How funny! Anyway, I'm praying for all your family members to remain safe this fire season! DS
06/21	Do you have information on the fires in Arizona? Last year you had a list of fires. Are you doing that this year? I hope so. RO Welcome back RO. Yes we will be doing our Fire Links, 2003 but there are not many fires with their own web pages yet. There is a link at the top of this forum. Of course, you can check in at theysaid to see what firefighters are talking about. You can also visit the Fire News page and click on different topics. This is a great search option from google and we've configured the search to optimize finding pertinent recent info on the topics. Click on wildland fire or wildfire for the most recent articles on the web. There is a fine long list of articles with the newest being only 17 minutes old. You can also go to the Links page and scroll down to NIFC Fire News or to the GACCs listing of fire information - Situation Report (Sit) or News if it's available. The Southwest has a good website for fire information in your area. Nice southwest area map of large fires, too. Ab.
06/16	Welcome to all the new people and hello to the familiar ones. I have two guys in our family getting packs ready etc. Seems like two weeks ago we were unpacking and cleaning stuff. My guys have been busy for a while now doing controlled burns and one is working on the Firesmart program. That's a new program where the FF and forestry people come in and clear away brush and ladder fuels from the homes close to the woods etc. They have been working up here in North Idaho all summer and they are doing extremely needed but awesome work. Some of the property's I have seen look like they are in the middle of a park. Really nice work and no cost to the landowner. Highly recommended if they have it where you are. LuH: I guess I am an old hand at this having a husband and sons involved.....so I would be glad to try and answer questions....and I will tell it like I see it....not the cleaned up version. That use to really anger me when I was looking for info and people would gloss over stuff..... Dawn: I have not coped with little kids in a long time but they seem to be very hardy little creatures. I might suggest a scrapbook if they are old enough to help you. Also I keep a big map on the freezer and I tape names etc, pictures whatever comes in. New map every year so I can keep up with who is doing what and then it is like a scrap book. I know my kids loved family pictures.......for a while here we were looking for newspaper pictures and then posting the names so if anyone claims whoever was in the picture we sent it to them. keep up with the newspapers where their dad is because several times one of my guys has been in the paper and we didn't know it..... Sammi
06/15	Well here we are again, looking at a busy fire season with our firefighters gone for long periods of time. This will only be my second fire season as a fire fighters wife, (after 4 years as a military wife, the separations are not as difficult). My husband got into this last year on a college crew, and over the winter was offered a full time apprenticeship position with the Forest Service. We have 2 young children that miss their daddy terribly when he is gone, so if any of you veteran wives have any advice, it is always appreciated! Dawn
06/08	Ab Note: This message is cross posted from theysaid. We're looking forward to family members writing in. Don't be shy. People will reply to your questions. Hi, I am curious to know if the base camp at Susanville (sends firefighters out all around the country or do they basically stay on the western side of the US? Is this the closest base camp to Spokane, Washington? Also, what is daily base camp life like? Who prepares the meals? Is there an established camp there with sleeping accommodations & provisions? When there is no fire for them to fight, are they free to leave camp? How many firefighters work out of the camp? Also, how long is training to learn how to parachute into fire areas? Are there any prerequisites to becoming a "smoke jumper?" how dangerous is it? I have a 17 year old grandson who is talking about the good money to be earned, just working from late spring to fall. He feels it would give him a good nest egg for college in 2005. I am concerned about the conditions at the camp and the training beginners get. If I get a favorable response from you I would like to look into this further - can you direct me to a site/sites where I could learn more about the basics and how a parent/grandparent could track (on the internet) what fires are current & if a family member is put on a certain fire. thanks so much for anything you can help me with, Lu H Lu, I don't personally know about the camp at Susanville, but here are a couple of quick answers to some of your questions: To be a smokejumper, you must be an experienced wildland firefighter and then go through extensive jumper training. It is not for beginners. To find out about smokejumpers, try this site... www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/smokejumpers/. Smokejumpers are a " shared national resource". They travel to remote, inaccessible areas all over the US to fight wildfire. I imagine your grandson is talking about temporary, seasonal firefighting work with a federal agency since they're the largest hirers (ex, Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, National Park Service). If so, he'd be hired to work on a handcrew or engine crew at a local Forest or BLM "duty station". He's likely to be dispatched from there with his crew to fight fires out of the area or out of the state. Wildland firefighting assignments can take crews to some of the most beautiful country in the U.S. and they get paid for it. With overtime, the money can add up especially from a young person's perspective. Some crew members finance their college education fighting fire. However, the beautiful country where fires burn is often rugged and remote... and potentially dangerous when it's afire. Hours can be long and strenuous. Then sometimes you just "wait a lot". The FFI training in which I've participated is excellent. It stresses safety, how to stay safe. However, if your grandson is not the outdoorsy type or is not in excellent physical shape, he may be a poor candidate for this kind of job. For a successful experience as in all jobs, the relationship between the person and job must be a "good fit". If the fit is right, he could have the most rewarding experience of his life. Suggest that he go to the location he's interested in and talk to the firefighters there. He could treat it as an "informational" job interview. Here's info on FS firefighter employment www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/employment/ and the hiring site for the Forest Service www.fs.fed.us/fire/links/links_employment.html and for the BLM www.fire.blm.gov/recruit.htm. Training is done by the agency. You can look a post I did on 6/5 in response to Kirby to get some few details on the training required for the intro level qualifications -- Firefighter I. In addition to relying on themselves, novice firefighters must also rely on their more experienced squad bosses and crew supervisors or on their engine captains. There is lots of on-the-job training, both formal and informal. To get a feel for the wider fire community, browse the FS Fire and Aviation site. Fire is "interagency", but that's a good place to start. Sometimes it is not possible to know where your family member is fighting fire unless they call and tell you... and sometimes that's hard to do from remote sites. Their "duty station" forest will probably know where they were dispatched first, but their crew might be sent on after that first location. Some of the family members who write in to our familysaid web page during the season know more about tracking their family members than firefighters do. Undoubtedly you can get some more answers to questions from them as the season gets underway. Pop over to the familysaid page in a few weeks and ask those good folks. Browse back through their suggestions from seasons past. As far as the resources we maintain on wildlandfire.com, if you are able to find out a fire's name, you can take a look at our running list of large fires on the web, 2003 linked at the top of this page. You can read the National Fire Situation Report, the NIFC Large Fire website, the southwest or southern CA news and notes pages, all linked from our Links Page, button in our header. You can follow some fires via our News Page also linked in our header. Clearly not much for this season is up on the web yet but there are signs that things are heating up. Ab.
06/07	My sister is gearing up, getting current with refreshers. She doesn't know when her crew will be called up, but she's getting antsy. Robbie We all are. Ab.
04/30	Hello, Everyone, "Looks like fire season starts . . . tomorrow," his voice crackled across the miles and landed in my message machine. "Probably won't be calling in for 21 days." He's expecting a busy--but safe--season. So do we all. I'm looking forward to your daily, generous gifts--when firefighters and their friends and families share information, experiences, ideas, and encouragement. I'll be reading your posts, eager to catch up with your doings. Shot's Mom Glad yer with us. Ab.
01/01, 2003	Happy New Year