DATE	SUBJECT          (Previous Archive: Jan-Aug'03) Return to FamilySaid Archives
9/30	Tazgirl: Dahling, if getting bitchy at us means you get it off your chest and are able to avoid letting loose on your SO, our purpose in existence is accomplished (smile) at least in the context of Family Said. Besides, I don’t think that was b*tchy at all. Let ‘er fly. Poet: Gotta hold onto the redemptive bits (which ever bits those happen to be). Nerd on the Fireline
9/30	Hello all. I forgot, AGAIN that there was a chat on Monday night. Arrgh... Ah well. I was just starting work, so did not have a break at that time anyhow. *sigh* I thought I would give you an update on what has been going on in my life. My SO has been home for a while now. but of course has a busy life, so I get to see him one or two days out of the week. Unfortunately because of my messed up work schedule, we spend most of that time sleeping, but still it IS time together. It has been really interesting seeing how this first fire season has changed my outlook on life and relationships. It has changed my priorities a lot. I have learned PATIENCE, that's for sure, but I also have learned what is important to me in a relationship. It is not the amount of time one gets with their loved ones, but what you do during that time. We spend HOURS just talking. Talking about anything and everything. Deep stuff to life growing up, family, friends, even the weather. It is this communication that keeps me/us going. I am getting to know him, in the brief times we get to spend together, better than when we were had 2 or 3 days straight. Time is precious, and we spend it doing more significant things. Instead of going out to a movie or dinner, we snuggle on the couch with a video and a bowl of popcorn. "Quality Time is a GOOD THING." It does not seem so important to go run out to do this or that, when we can go visit family, just talk and get to know each other. I STILL am not able to plan ahead for anything, even by a few days. He works a lot, and it involves lots of travel. He never really knows when or where he will be 24 hrs in the future. *sigh* What it comes down to is this. He cares deeply about me, and I him. We communicate a lot, and don't fret about the small stuff. ******* When I think of us, I think of this: The need to love, to be loved, to be accepted for ourselves, not for what others want us to be, burns as bright as the wildfires he fights. Am I willing to embrace that fire, with my heart and soul? YES. I would never ask him to change who he is, what he does. I don't want to. Live in the "Now" fully with all your being for "now" is where life is experienced. The future is going to take care of itself, in it's own way, in it's own time. Embrace each day with an open mind, a joyful heart. Embrace life with all it's joys, it's sorrows, its pain and its rewards. You will find that the days seems brighter, tasks seem easier, "quality time" seems longer and more fulfilling. Time apart does not seem so painful, as one is never really alone when one is loved. ******* I try to think of him when he is gone not with a wanton heart, but with a smile. A knowing smile in that I know I am loved and missed, and he will return as soon as he is able. I also have memorized the lines of his face, the "smile wrinkles" in the corners of his eyes when he smiles. Even the peaceful, contented look when he sleeps. When I am lonely, I just think of the last time he looked at me with love in his eyes, and hold on to that tightly. I also try to "send loving thoughts his way." Does that make sense? It is like trying to get him to feel my love, wherever he is, whether he can comuncate with me or not,. It seems to work. It DOES work. I have talked to him days afterwards, asking him what he was doing at such and such a time, on such and such a day, and he said he was thinking of me. Hey, you never know. <G> Hope this finds all of you well, and your loved ones close. Poet
9/30	Hey gang. Sorry we missed each other last night Sammi. I was really in the mood for some chat too to kind of lift my spirits. My FF told me on Sunday (the day of my b'day party) that he found out his mom's 50th b'day celebration is going to be on the 10th. Well, he was set to come here on the 5th. So, needless to say, I was and am still, disappointed. It was just about the LAST thing that I needed to hear. I know, it's not that big of a deal. But you know how the days drag and drag when it's that last two weeks that you have to wait, so to hear of waiting another entire week was a lot to take. Especially since that means he cannot make my championship game on Sunday. And to add insult to injury, he calls this morning and says they just got released a day early, which would've meant he could make his Sunday flight for sure. But now it doesn't matter and next week is just going to look like this one...long and boring and monotonous. I'm being a big baby about it but as you guys well know, I am at my wit's end w/ all of this. I just keep trying to tell myself that there is nothing I can do about it, so why bother worrying about it. Serenity prayer.... We talked last night and again he apologized for putting me through all of this all summer and was genuinely trying to cheer me up. He asked what I wanted to hear from him that would make me feel better. I'll give him credit for that. I think an SO specifically asking what they can do or say is at least a step in the right direction. So I basically made him tell me how great he thinks I am, and we are. Flaterry goes a looong way doesn't it? That's my saga...an added week....one long, impatient week. Thanks for listening to my moaning. And many, many thanks for all of the b'day wishes. Happy b'day to you Heli!!!!! Hope it is or was as good as mine. The party on Sunday was a success and I had SOOO much fun. Man do I have great friends!! The band that played was really good. My brother made tons of food for all of us, burgers, hot dogs, sausage, chicken, salad, etc. Quite the spread. And lots of beer. A couple of people even brought me flowers and sweet cards and my best friend gave me copies of all of our 'best of' pics from over the years. With it, she gave me a photo album to put them all in. After looking through all the photos and reminiscing, I sat down on one of my brother's pedi-cabs (trailers that attach to bicycles to carry people around downtown...that is the business he owns) to show him the photos. Well, something threw our balance off (they were perched on buckets to sit upright) and we went falling backwards in it!! Normally, this would've been hysterical. But I had a cup of beer in my hand (full) and all these pictures, in order, that my friend had JUST given to me. The beer spilled all over me and all over every d@mn one of the pictures. So momentarily I got a little upset. I just felt so bad after all the work she put into that and then minutes later, they were mostly ruined. She calmed me down and said it was no big deal at all. Such a typical story and typical calamity to happen to me. Thought I would share. Later my friends told me how much laughter they had to hold in. But they saw that I was upset about the pictures and consoled me instead, and then laughed. Back to work. Hope you are feeling better Dawn. And listen to these gals, you don't have to be Superwoman, Supermom, or Superwife. I think it was Sammi or FM that said it, 'if momma ain't happy, ain't no one else gonna be happy either.' You know you can always talk to us. Soon to not be so b*tchy, TazGirl
9/30	Oops, I just realized as I was reading the morning posts that I forgot to wish Oregon & Taz a Happy Belated Birthday! Hope you two enjoyed yourselves. Sammi, I noticed you mentioned you received your pins from the Wildland Firefighters Foundation. Can you tell how long ago you ordered yours. I put in an order for pins the first part of August and haven't received them yet. I was wondering if you think I should contact them and see if my order got lost or if it took you a while to get yours. I hate bother them if it just takes time to the pins once you place your order. Thanks. Good luck on the studying and training everyone! Heli Groupie
9/30	Bummer! I forgot and missed the chat last night! (Are we going to be doing that every Monday night then Ab?) I'll try to remember next time. I am currently trying to decide which states I want to apply for the BLM apprenticeship in. Must get back to work. Happy Tuesday folks. FireChica
9/30	Catskilldog: Good luck in EMT class. I’m learning that the instructor makes a huge difference. If you’ve got somebody who’s been a paramedic for so long they don’t remember that not everybody knows what cyanotic means, get yourself a copy of Taber’s Encyclopedic Medical dictionary…should be about thirty bucks through the Ab’s amazon link. Bring it to class, and look stuff up as the instructor says words you don’t understand. Hmm…other things that have saved my neck…study, study, study, and practice your assessments. Assess your loved ones! (laughing) Actually, my mother asked me to teach her what to do if her boyfriend had a heart attack…and teaching somebody else is the best way to learn. And do it often enough that you don’t have to think, because in the state exams, they won’t give you time to stop and check your street sheet. I’ve a patient for several mock-state exams, and they will try to convert your brain to mush…because realistically that’s what it’s going to be on scene. Sammi: A couple of my crewmates decided to try dragging my car over to the demolition field to see if anybody would notice (Probably not, it looks horrible, but it’s my car and I really do love it). What they didn’t realize is that if you try to turn the steering wheel without the key in the ignition, all sorts of interesting things lock up. So I came out to go home and noticed rather fast that somebody had been messing with my car, and figured out who dun it too. Revenge is coming… Nerd on the Fireline
9/30	Hey everyone! Sounds like everyone is doing quite well sticking up for one another. I had to go to a convention last week but still managed to access Family Said on my laptop in the motel room just so I could keep up with things. My SO actually got to come home for his R&R instead of spending it in a motel room so I lucked out and got to spend my birthday with him. Sometimes he just amazes me with how considerate he is. I got home from my trip in the late afternoon of his first day of R&R (my birthday), and even after his long trip home and my not being there for half the day, he tells me to get in the car and he drives me over to my sister's home (2 hours away) to take me out for a birthday dinner and to spend time with my sister and her husband. We stayed over night there, went shopping the next day and then drove home late that afternoon. So he ended up spending his last evening at home getting ready to leave again. He looked absolutely wiped out when I dropped him off at the airport today to head back to the fire. Poor man. It's a good thing he got to spend his first night back in a motel room with a real bed so he could get some rest (he-he). Taz, I'm sorry I missed you in chat. By the time I finally got on tonight, you were already out of there. I would have loved to talked with and sympathize with you about being "over this fire thing"! I know what you're saying girl. It's starting to wear pretty thin around here too (my patience, I mean). And before he left today, he told me he's going to be gone for about a week in mid-October too. So it looks like I'll be a widow for a little while longer. Dawn, Boy, I wish I could give you a big hug right now! My daughter is no longer a little one, but I still remember how draining that time of life can be! All I can say is take naps! Take lots of naps! Get your little ones to lie down with you and have some quiet time together, even if you don't sleep, just taking ten will do miracles. You might find yourself looking forward to being "wifey-pooh" . And remember, the house is not going to crumble around you if the floors don't get vacuumed or the furniture isn't dusted for a day or so. (I've been know to vacuum my furniture while I vacuum the floor to just to save time - yes the end tables, the entertainment center, the knick knack self, the pictures hanging on the wall, etc.) I'll vacuum anything! Let me tell you, it was an excellent incentive for my daughter when she didn't want to take a bath and I thought she was getting a little dusty. (No worries people, just joking I never vacuumed her or threatened to vacuum her). Give yourself a break, you don't have to be superwoman. Going on strike for a day or so also helps. I remember walking in the door after work one Friday evening and everyone had been home for couple of hours by then. As I walked in the front door, barely having time to set my purse down, I was asked "what's for dinner?" At first I about blew my lid, but then a calm overtook me and I said "I don't know, it's Friday night and I'm not cooking so you figure it out, I'm going to make myself a margarita." You know what? My dear man and my dear daughter headed out the door and to the store and together the two of them rustled up quite a nice dinner for tired mom! Don't know if this helped at all. But just know I'm giving you big mental hugs as you go through this. Boy there I go again. I start to post a quick note and end up writing an opus! Love you all. Heli Groupie
9/30	Hey Cat, you will do fine. Do you know about the CD;s you can get to help you study and then practice for the test? If you are interested I can find ours and let you know where they can be found. I think there was free mini tests on the net also..also Our Design catalog for FF has lots of study helps etc. Oh yea, I finally got my new pins from the FF foundation. The new one is really very nice. It's wreath shaped with Wildland boots, mountain, flames and clouds. I wear it on my jean jacket and have lots of people ask so I advertise for the foundation. They are $5.00 and really do make a statement. Not to mention help Ff families. ..sammi
9/30	Nerd on the fireline: You really did help with the -honey I'm home- issue. But sorry no bite on the bait. All I am going to say is been there done that several times. No Moniker 2
9/29	I was in chat tonight and kept getting bumped off and then the page kept coming up unavailable so, no chat for me. Nerd: I have an extrication story. About 3 yrs ago the local FD was having their essentials extrication class. My SO was teaching so I took three of the grandsons (5-6-10 yr olds) up to watch. All the Ff were decked out in their turnouts and I sat my little crew down on the concrete pad by the back of the bay to watch the crews cut up and beat on the cars. They had 5 or six wrecked cars out in the field behind the station and are working really hard on a maroon Suburban just like mine. Usually I am reading or something else but because it was like my rig I was interested in how long it would take them to save me. The six year old turns around and looks at me so puzzled and says' Mimaw, how are we gonna get home?" Poor guy really thought they were cutting up my Sub.....I took him around the corner to see our transportation was still intact. g'ma sammi
9/29	hi all, i'm still here. i registered for my first EMT course and start classes this thursday. i'm excited about it, but i know it's going to be rough especially since i work full time and have a really long commute to/from work. we are supposed to close on our house at the end of the month! yea! i can't wait for my lover to have his huge garage to work in and to have more breathing room (our house now is tiny). the plans for my chopper are coming together! i've picked out my frame, gas tanks, front end and color. i'm so anxious to ride, but it probably won't be done until spring ($$). well, in the meantime, i just ride on the back of my FF hub's chopper. he let me ride it once for 150 miles -- i might just have to take it for a ride again soon. no fire talk going on here except my FF hub wants to try out for smokejumping maybe next season. i wear his fire t-shirts and feel kinda special, ya know, it's cool! i am really enjoying his being home full time now. he's really good to me and i won't take that for granted. i somehow managed to marry a very strong man who is extremely sensitive to my needs. glad i waited so long. sorry so sappy. i've been keeping up with all of your posts. happy belated b-day to tazgirl and oregon! that's all for now.....gotta go do some chores and hit the hay! ciao for now. catskilldog (as in the NY mtns for you newcomers)
9/29	Hmmm. No Moniker 2, a bit more insight into your background on this issue would be helpful…but coming from a female firefighter (although currently a single one, so obviously not totally qualified to comment): When I come back from a fire, I’m usually either semi-comatose or still jumping with adrenaline. In the first case, it’s very rare for me to manage to actually get the charcoal out of my hair before I simply collapse (I’ve fallen asleep on the living room floor right inside the door in the past…didn’t even make it to the couch). In the second case, well, my old roomie from school was visiting me, and when she showed up at my house she found no me and note saying “On fire, back whenever.” I got back at two that morning to find her asleep in her car in my driveway…and then I kept her up until eight in the morning just talking my head off. Fire trivia, crew gossip, stuff she probably didn’t give a damn about. No shower, no nothing…smoky, sweaty me just sitting there talking ‘til past dawn. For the record, J is a true friend, and she didn’t hold my behavior against me. Now, a significant other in the same position, on a regular basis, would be well and truly justified in smacking me, or at least dishing out a little suffering. But I’ve found that adrenaline high is profoundly self-centered state (as well it should be; it is after all the fight-or-flight reflex)…especially when layered on top of a little fatigue, it makes it hard to be considerate. The key has got to be communication. On the spot or in the calmness of the next morning, it doesn’t really matter as long as it happens. Any guy/gal worth being with is going to be willing to take a step back and go “Oh shoot, I’d better stop that.” If told that a certain behavior drives their SO up the wall. Especially something like brushing their teeth before jumping into bed. Nerd on the Fireline
9/29	Most important thing is get alone with him. Even if it is after the kiddies are asleep. No TV . Tell him how you feel. he is probably feeling rejected and you may be feeling used. Communication is the thing. I know you hear that alot but it is true. Try and remember all the reasons you fell in love in the first place. Must be a terrific man. He goes out fights the war and comes home to warmth, comfort, security and wants the little woman to respond. You are there with the kids 24/7 and need to be snuggled, taken care of and listened to without thinking the pay off is gonna be sex. If possible have a set night every week for date night. Even if you can't leave the house set up alone time. Go walking once a week even if it is around the house. I am going to presume that I know a lot here and I think there are probably very few women in mommy/wife relationships that have not felt this way. When we are in relationships with these men who are gone a lot on these adrenaline rush type occupations they go out and do the FF thing and the rush is expected to be continued at home. "oh I'm sorry honey but it is 3am and I realize you are wide awake and roaring but guess what buddy. While you were out doing the ff thing I was here changing diapers and wiping snotty noses of the children YOU helped me make and I want sleep. Try tomorrow night after some adult attention and conversation and not me being treated like a "woman of the night". ( and honey you cook dinner and change the kids) And before you "men" start huffing and pointing fingers. Why do we think the divorce for FF is so damn high? Here's a clue----- Look in the mirror and try and tell us at some point your mindset has not been exactly that. Been out on the engine or the forest, cold, wet, tired beyond sustaining life and still thinking ummmm light on in lamp, toasty home, kiddies all tucked in and asleep, little wife waiting for ME!!!!!!! Think again. you have not talked to her or listened in three days. have no idea what happened while she was alone-and you want WHAT? I think if the one coming home to the sleeping family showered or at least brush the teeth and splash on some after shave and climb into bed and GENTLY snuggle for a while you may be pleasantly surprized. But if you come home smelling like wet smoke and green teeth, strip and HOP into bed and try to reeve up her engine you are probably gonna be properly rejected. You will be able to derail this train a lot faster and not have to wait 20 years or 4 wives later to see there really is a different way to handle this. What about how the female FF think on this issue? Would be very interested in your opinion, because it is a very valid issue. And very serious to relationships. No moniker 2
9/29	Old Dispatcher: You nailed some things very articulately…and I know enough about the Sun Dance to know what an honor it is to be invited to watch, let alone make blanket strips! That isn’t a sign of respect earned by being insensitive or disrespectful. Good for you. Dawn: (hug) Sammi: I wish I could have accepted your invitation…sounds like the party was a ton of fun. Any roast left over? Yum…but I was in Vehicle Extrication class. I may have been the only girl in class, but on car number two the boys did me the compliment of just handing me the axe. Whoo-hoo! (smash, bang…tinkle, tinkle). Nerd on the Fireline
9/29	Right on sammi, You can get mad at almost anything but it is a lot harder to get mad when you sit down and talk things out. Sometimes people forget that talking is an option. I looked on my times with the crews as a time to learn. They know a lot of things that I don't know. If I wasn't open to learning, I never would have found out. We can all learn from each other, sometimes what we learn is not good but it does come in handy at some time in your life. I have also worked with troubled girls. Try to work with someone who has no idea where you are coming from and can't relate to you. We found that we had things in our past/background that we could relate to each other on. It is up to all of us to find out what those commonalities are. I know with the guys, we were all poor at one time in our life or were still poor. That isn't much but it is a common bond to start the communication. How many ways can you cook beans? You would be surprised how original some folks can be!! That might sound funny but at least the conversation was started and we could go from there. No moniker Old Dispatcher?
9/29	Old Dispatcher.....BOY ARE YOU OUT OF LINE AND I"M COMING TO GET YA !!!!!!!!! mess with my gals. (smiling) (kidding) I think you perfectly put it into words how sometimes it is just plain silly to get so bent over something so minor. My husband was on a fire this summer and had the opportunity to chat with a couple of the Native American hot shots about their names, he asked them to please explain how their names were arrived at. They took a great deal of time and explained and he actually learned a lot and they had a really nice talk. They were not in the least offended and then they talked about his accent and how he grew up etc. exchange of information on differences and they were not angry or in any way insulted. I think some times people get offended by other people because they want to be offended at something. Sort of looking for an excuse to be mad........sammi
9/29	To all of my Friends, Thank you for the flowers, they made my day. REALLY!! I have been having a hard time with the husband home...I know that sounds funny, but maybe some of you with children will understand. When he is gone, I get to just be a mommy. But when he is home, I have to switch gears, going from mother to lover. I have a hard time with this. Do any of you feel the same way? After a long day with 2 small children, with homeschooling and the every day homemaker stuff, I am spent come the end of the day. And then I have to turn into wifey-poo! Somedays, I wish I could just SCREAM! Oh well, thanks for letting me vent, can you tell it is approaching that wonderful time of the month...and I am not speaking of payday! Dawn
9/28	Dawn, We gathered a Biiiiigggggggg bouquet of flowers for you- sounds like you could use a pick-me-up after the last several days! We're thinking of you, hope things improve and hope you cheer up soon!!! Friends from Family Said
9/28	OK guys, and I know by now that most of you on this site are gals but I am used to calling everyone "guys" with no gender associated with the term. I am going to get my 2 cents in on this Indian/Native American thing. I worked for several years on the fire line with Indian crews. My guys and gals, although very few were gals, were from the rez. We understood each other perfectly. At that time, Indian crews were on the firelines a lot but there were still few women. I told them once that they were tolerated and so was I but that was about it. Neither of us was liked but were necessary evils. I was a crew rep and traveled with my crews, stayed with them in camp and looked out for them. I would be like Sammi, mess with my guys and you are going to be talking to me! We didn't care what color we were, we were in it together, white or red, didn't matter a whit. We respected each other for what and who we were. People don't seem to understand that you take someone at face value. I was appalled when we were sitting on a hillside in Utah, thank goodness at night so no one could see my face when this guy who was our strike team leader just popped out, Which one of you had ancestors at the Little Big Horn??? I could have died. I considered that inappropriate. There was a big silence but the guys did respond to the question and I learned something about my guys. I would never have asked that question, if the subject would have come up, then they would have told me. I was once invited to a school house on the rez where the medicine mad could call the buffalo. To be honest, I told the guy who invited me that I would go with him but I would never just arrive at a ceremony like that without one of them with me. I have been invited to a Sun Dance which is a very sacred ceremony. Fact is my friend asked me to make some blanket strips for her. They are beaded strips about 18 inches long and 4 inches wide. Took me 3 years to get 6 sets made for her. I considered that an honor as the strips were used on blankets which were used as gifts in the give away that went with the ceremony. In later years when I went into dispatch we had a huge uproar about calling the crews "Indian" rather than Native American. I said my guys didn't care but I would poll the reservations to see what they preferred to be called. You know what, they told me they didn't care what I called them AS LONG AS I CALLED THEM! I think that at times outsiders make more of the situation than the folks who are affected. You can stereotype to your hearts content but in all my travelings with the crews I never had a problem. We traveled over a lot of the west. You will never find a better sense of humor than you find on the crews. There are a lot of tricksters out there so we got along well. There was a lot of teasing and good times. Even after 15 years I still see guys from my crews and we are glad to see each other. I live in a town which is known for the attitudes that carried over from the 1972 riots. Well, I gave those folks all something to talk about one morning when right in the middle of main street, this old white female was out there giving and getting a couple big hugs from a couple of Indians. White, Indian, not on your life, they were my friends and I was their friend. That is all that counts. I have never been asked my my Indian friends to call them Native Americans. So yes, let's go a little easy here, there was no disrespect intended that I could tell. I have the feeling that I am going to regret sending this as now I will be drawn into the fray rather than just as you say Lurking! Old Dispatcher
9/28	Dawn, you are never just a wife and mother. You're doing the most important job on the planet. Taking care of those kiddies and making a safe home is what it's all about. Please give abs the ok for me to write to you private. Sammi
9/28	Hello all, I am still around, I just don't feel like any of the current conversations pertain to me. Please don't take that the wrong way. I am just a wife and mom trying to live each day, and I come here for support from other spouses in similar situations. You gals are the most amazing women, and have given me much support when I needed it, THANK YOU! I am around if anyone wants to chat. Just get my email from the Ab's, you have my permission :) (Sorry I have not been around much more, I have 2 children with nasty colds.) Dawn
9/27	Outsourcing: oK some of you "they said" lurkers over here on this list......will someone please explain in REALLY simple understandable English what "outsourcing" is. I think I have a fairly basic interpretation but when I just went out and ask my troops, who are working on the house, I think I started a war. And they are armed with hammers and saws.....sammi
9/27	Happy Saturday gang. The weather is finally turning here and I'm enjoying it being a wee cooler...although it's still probably 85 in the sun. I just got back from a long trip to the dog park w/ my dog and my brother's. I sat in the shade for probably an hour and a half, absorbed in my Ghosts of the Fireground book. It is so good. Really gives you a great idea of fighting wildland fire. Had a nice evening yesterday. Went to the lake and did some wakeboarding and then rented movies and settled in for a quiet evening. Watched Michael Moore's Roger & Me, which was really, really good...and depressing. And then attempted to watch (at Nerd's suggestion) To Have and Have Not. But I started it too late and could not stay awake. Will have to try again soon. I'm not accustomed to watching old movies and I think it takes some adjustment. They take more patience at first. I want to rent Philadelphia Story too. There are sooo many old movies that I have not seen. Talked to my FF today after I called him and he returned my call. Still on the damn Canoe Fire. He said they've been staging a lot the last few days, so not as much work as usual. He talked like they might get released a day or two early, but after talking to him today, don't think that is a possibility...which makes it a big possibility he won't make his flight this Sunday. It's out of my hands, I should quit fretting about it. We talked for all of three minutes. I can always tell when he is at the end of a tour, he seems so distant, disinterested, burnt out and tired. I try to not take it personally but that can be difficult. I wonder if I should even talk to him at all for a few days until he is off this fire. I mean, what is the point? I just end up disappointed and a slight frustrated. Quality over quantity you know? Again, I'm soooo over it. Going to a movie premiere tonight for the School of Rock w/ Jack Black. My friend works for Richard Linklater and got us tickets. Should be a lot of fun and a little celebrity sighting to boot. There is a bowling party after the premiere and that is what I'm looking forward to most. Going to have to wear a nice hat to cover up my hideous hair. Ugh... Tomorrow is my b'day barbecue...wish you gals could join me. TazGirl
9/27	In the interest of diplomacy: sorry if I misunderstand but I think I almost disagree. I am still gonna stand by my post as to North jumping into a thread and assuming we need more monitoring than we get from Ab's. The Ab's have been doing a great job with out making people on our list think they have done something wrong and get embarrassed and then not post again. We obviously have some very strong assertive people here who have no problem at all voicing opinions and declaring war if needed. (nice war) On the other side. We have some people here who are not ones to take on some presumingly gruff, bearded, booted dude, but cute, that has assumed the responsibility of chastising her (them). Now for all I know North is some 5'2" 105 lb sweetie, who also happens to wear boots and green pants. it doesn't matter. At the least, to think we have some crew sitting around reading our posts is a tad disconcerting, but no problem there, (you're all welcome) but at the least work into letting us know you are there and then introduce yourselves and gently advise the rogue writer as to their mistakes, as you see them. If this had happened to Susie who is new to fire and family she probably would have run the other way. And we would not have had the opportunity to explain this world we live in and how we have to learn to handle these situations. And yes North did ask to take it private which might have been better, so thx for that North> You tried. And when you guys get tired of me acting like mother hen just tell me to quit cackling. I will go with my tail feathers ruffled back to my nest. I have all my troops here today to finish our new deck so I am surrounded by a bunch of people who know EVERYTHING about life, work and relationships. Oh my gosh I really do wish you guys could come up and see how crazy they are. I may end up with a 5 story condo or a ladder up to a tree house. I never know.........I'll have to tell you the story of when they helped their dad build a swing. Yep-I just got orders for roast, rice with gravy, and lots of banana pudding. So Nerd here's your chance come on up and join us for lunch outside under the tree. if you can survive a day of this gang your a keeper. Gotta go cook,,,,,sammi
9/26	Nerd you are right. I shouldn't have taken a poke at Northzone 5. I asked Original Ab to take my comment out. Is Abercrombie his real name or is Original Ab a female? (Sorry, sorry, I just can't resist.) Robbie
9/26	Ya know, I think I’m going to step in and squash something right here…Northzone 5 expressed a reaction to a perceived offensive statement. Others have come on this board basically attacking who we are and what we do and our need to keep communications open between ourselves and others in the same or similar situations (you remember those!). I think Northzone’s reaction, justified or not, reasonable or not, fire fighter or not, was legitimate. We don’t like being dismissed for being romantics, or jumper-humpers, or fire groupies…let’s not go dismissing anybody else without really due cause. Nerd on the Fireline (in the interests of diplomacy) Okay, who are you and what did you do with Chica? Man auction? And here we were all thinking you were a demure little shrinking violet of Southern womanhood (or Colorado womanhood, as the case may be)…oh, wait, no I was confusing you with somebody else…man auction? Yup, gotta be Chica… (Laughing hard) Nerd on the Fireline
9/26	Hey Poet, good to hear from you sleepy headed thing. What comes to my mind when I read your sleepy-eyed posts is the disney character Thumper, who was always just waking up and coming out of her hole when bambi was already up and around and so perky. Am I mis remembering that movie? Do the rest of you form mental images of people writing in here? I liked NorCal Tom's image of Sammi on theysaid. I bet you do have a shotgun, Sammi, and you know how to use it too... on the bears and elk and mountain lions that threaten your log cabin. Has to be that way. Now Taz, I wondered for a while if you could be one of those studded, tattooed roller queens. I thought not. And Catskilldog. That moniker had me worried until someone explained the mountain connection. Guess she's off doing pressing things. I would be too. OK so I did get the beachboys lyrics wrong. I have been accused of biased hearing before, especially surrounding my after dinner dishes job as a kid. However if the beachboys had been beachgirls they would have sung it my way. Robbie
9/26	"delurking" YAWN... Sorry guys, been very hectic here. I am NOT use to working overnight shifts, and any free time is spent trying to sleep. I am on mandatory 12 hr days, 4 days a week, with options for Friday and Saturday to. Yikes! Anyhow, enough of that... My firefighter has been home for over two weeks now. Whoo HOO!!!! It is so weird being able to see him at least every couple of days, not to mention I got him a cell phone so we can communicate when he is not here. It is wonderful! I didn't want you all to feel bad now that I have my man here, and some of you don't. Hope all of you get your significant others home soon. I have had little time for poetry, but have been dabbling a bit in painting. I have two in process, and hopefully should be able to post pictures this weekend. Ab's, can you send me the schedule of chat times, so I can try and be there? I work usually when the chats are on, but may be able to squeeze something in on a break. I am truly impressed with everyone's stories and life experiences I feel so sheltered, not having been involved with fire until this spring/summer. I can see i have mised out on an interesting life. I feel blessed to have been accepted into such a community. No, that is not the right word, I should have said FAMILY. <G> Oh yeah, in regard to the poetry, my FF finally got to read all I had written, and actually pasted one of them in his work locker. I guess he liked them. I was worried it would be to mushy or something. Got to go to work, AGAIN, so take care all! If anyone wants to e-mail me privately, Abs, you have my permission to hand out my e-mail address. a tired but happy Poet Oh yeah, Happy b-day to all who have just had or will have them! Readers, yer on your own for chat. Your regular time is good. Let me know if you want to change it and I'll post the information here. Your "message sender" is on vacation. Orig. Ab.
9/26	Wooohoooo! Bring on the man auction! I have absolutely no problem with two men for every woman. I'll start making a list of possible candidates right now . . . ;-p FireChica
9/26	Thanks for the b'day wishes guys. I really appreciate it. I had a wonderful day yesterday, besides my hair mishap. I went to my friend's house to get my hair highlighted. She just finished beauty school and has been doing my hair for months. I spent about four hours at her house and was all excited about my b'day dinner. Well, suffice to say my hair did not turn out like I was hoping and I was quite upset about it when I got in the car. So there I am, running almost 30 minutes late to meet my friends at my own dinner and my hair is yellow...and I'm crying. But I got over it and just sucked it up. I called my girlfriend that was at the restaurant w/ everyone and she talked me down. And no one gawked at me too much when I walked in....my friend told all of them she would kick their *ss if anyone said anything or stared. Awww... And I guess it's not really that bad, but it's way too yellow and needs some fixin'. Which my friend said she'd do. So it's a pretty funny story looking back, and so typical. Hair drama...really puts things into perspective doesn't it? ;) I almost got choked up again last night at dinner w/ all of my friends just because I was so touched to see them all there and it meant so much that they all came out to celebrate with me. I gave 'em an appreciatory toast. We had Indian food at this place I'd never been to and MAN, was it good!!! FM, do you like Indian food? Maybe that's where we should go when you come in town. Well, you and your hubby should at least b/c it's wonderful. I'm supposed to be at work today, but a new girl started and there is literally nothing to do. And I woke up late, and don't have my car so I will just go when I feel like it. It's all cloudy and gray so I don't really feel like it. I just need the hours at this point. I will be getting another job here in a couple of weeks. I'm also supposed to go to the lake today, so of course it is cloudy. It is a family curse that any time any of us wants to go out on the lake or near a boat, the clouds automatically come in. My brother and I BOTH went out on my friend's boat a couple of weeks ago and we, I'm not kidding you, heard a clap of thunder the very moment we opened the car door at the lake. We gave each other a knowing kind of grin and went anyway....and got rained on. I guess there are worse curses. Sammi and Firechica, you guys did an awesome job standing up for Nerd. I think that was a perfect example of PC gone out of control to the point where there is no point. Her story was funny, relevant and it didn't occur to me for a millisecond that she was being offensive or not having respect for the elder Indian. It is obvious if you have spent ANY time on family said that Nerd is in no way offensive or the slightest bit racist. That's the thing w/ friends...you say what you want to and they don't judge you. It was such a 'they said' tactic. They get so feisty over there, and competitive. Maybe he was just lookin' for some torching. ;) It's funny Ab, the 'they said' vs. 'family said' dynamic that develops, isn't it? It's two girls for every boy isn't it? Someone said something about a 'family said' reunion next year. I just want to put in my two approving cents to that one. I'm in. That would be fantastic. Thanks again for all of the birthday wishes. TazGirl
9/26	Robbie, when you said your sister better not buy 'one' with her OT, I thought you were talking about the man, not the motorcycle. Made me laugh. Taz: Happy Birthday…looks like I got on a bit late, but I’ll add a Union Hotel Mud Cake to Sammi’s donation…my favorite baked good hands down…seven ounces of unsweetened chocolate, and there’s no water in recipe…substitute black coffee and bourbon. When I was a kid in Catholic school (there, you’ve heard my secret, I was a Catholic school girl, without ever being Catholic) that cake was best analogy I could think of for sin. Served with fresh whipped cream. And happy belated B-day to Oregon Jewel, too. Chica, Sammi, thank you for the back-up…and as far as two guys for every girl, wasn’t it the other way around with the Beach Boys? I think we just need to work a bit harder on cloning technology and make ourselves another Son of Sammi. And I don’t know about two…in my experience, maintaining one man in the condition to which he has become accustomed is hard enough. More than one is just asking for trouble. Nerd on the Fireline
9/26	Well, the movie was ok....but definitely not Dances With Wolves. It was nice to just sit and not have the phone ringing or tones going off. And even after a bizillion years married to the same guy he still likes to hold hands. So sweet he is. I probably better stay home and not go off on the Harley....what if I fell off? he would just come pick me up and brush off the gravel and then say "what the hell are you thinking?" and then he says "not much I see!!!!" Happens every time I pull a dumb stunt and he has to save me. I really want you guys to know how much you have meant to me this summer and even tho some of our people are back for the season I hope you will check in from time to time. Dawn is probably busy with husband and kids but she will be around. I think this is her 2nd full season. Those of you that are of the younger set really are so full of life and have such awesome energy it has been such a pleasure hearing your thoughts. I find it amazing how we are so different, in age, personalities, jobs, relationships and yet bonded. Yipee!!!!!! What a group, we need a party. hey Firemom, I lost your e-mail address when my internet service got messed up so please write me. Also Firedad, same thing......sorry but I am way behind in my mail thx Sammi Abs'; do you think Family Said is a keeper???????? better say yes or you will have to face the troops.....sammi Original Ab sez, "sure why not, whatever makes life easier for firefighter families." I'm sure Abby would have put it differently. Lemme poke around. Abby may have left those emails addys and I can forward your message on.
9/25	Happy B-day Taz. Whatever you do, don't take up that stunt motorcycle riding (Dallas) that they showed on the news tonight. Better to become a smokejumper than go overboard and buy one of those "Donor Machines". Now, you can want your Harley guy, Sammi, but give him up if he becomes brain damaged and starts popping wheelies going 120 mph. Reverse Darwinism. Enough out of me. I'm shutting up. But my sister better not buy one with her OT $. Robbie "Two guys for every girl." The beachboys had Chica and Nerd in mind?
9/25	Taz Happy Birthday! I hope yours is at least half as great as mine was, sounds like you have a great group of friends and family to celebrate with. This year my celebration has lasted all week and it's definitely one of the best birthdays I've had in 10 years. Oregon Jewel
9/25	Hi guys, and welcome North. I really don't think Nerdy needs any cautionary advice from anyone and certainly not pertaining to her Indian story. If anyone out there on this list is so touchy as to be offended by such a story then it is their problem not Nerdy's or ours on family list. We go really fast here from subject to subject and from mood to mood. (Women with hormones) opps was that politically correct? Probably not, oh well, who cares? (your chance to speak up, anyone) I could be offended all week long by different friends, co-workers of mine who call me all sorts of names. Babe, g'ma, dragon slayer, charger, trouble and the list goes on. it is such a waste of time to have to find things to be offended at. And if it was an "Indian" that saves Nerdy's butt one day. (and probably a very cute butt) "God bless him for being a hero." Red, black, blue or purple color has no meaning what so ever. And coming from where I grew up that is a real hard won statement. So please you guys are welcome to come to family said to visit, learn, communicate whatever but please don't come over here and think we need help changing. We don't. We are doing just find in our nest and you are welcome but don't make us wary to post freely what we are feeling, thinking etc. That is the best part of our list. Everyone here all summer have supported each other, cried, yelled given great advice and told very bad jokes and so far we are ALL still here and our numbers are growing. No hard feelings but get to know us before you try to teach us. And Nerdy.....you're great!!!!!!!. Ok I will bring the cake. Strawberry icing on white cake and strawberry and vanilla ice cream. Yum.... I have invited my hunny to go see Kevin Costner's new movie. The Western. can't remember the name. I'll check in later to see if we have any more "issues" we need to address. You guys keep watch and take no enemy's.... sammi
9/25	Wow...I'll know from now on not to abandon familysaid for so long! Tons of really interesting conversation since a certain SJ happened to be in the same 5 mile radius as me for the first time in 2 1/2 months! Woohoo! He left again this morning, but he's going on a single resource assignment, so I should be hearing from him more often, etc...yay. It seems like our separate fire seasons may be soon coming to a close...no complaints here. As far as my two cents about everything else, when I left the line, I was an engine boss. Working my way up to that, I definitely had some hard times with different individuals ... I remember a certain FMO was introducing someone to all the engine crews, and when he came to me, he exclaimed, "And THIS is our WOMAN engine boss, aly!" I felt like a museum exhibit, like a bunch of 3rd graders should be oohing and ahhing... anyways, I later let him know that I didn't really appreciate being introduced as THE WOMAN, as it was pretty darn obvious I was of the fairer sex. I never had a problem with him after that. I found in my experiences, there was sometimes doubt about whether or not i deserved to be there, either as an engine boss, squad boss, or whatever. For me, the doubt just made me work harder to prove that I did belong there. Like Nerd, I didn't want to be treated specially, or be singled out, I just wanted to do my job for the love of firefighting. Anyways, that's that. BLM Bob, I loved the hard hat story! Taz - I totally feel your pain regarding the firefighter boyfriend assumptions. On airplanes, in restaurants, anywhere I am, if i'm reading something about fire, watching the news about fire, or happen to glance to long at a darn candle burning, it seems like someone will ask me if my boyfriend is in fire. Of course, he is in fire, but so am I! Grr. That always made me angry. Instead of being angry towards them, however, I would always just smile, explain I was a firefighter, and move on... Speaking of moving on, I need to put my college degree to work. Anyone have any good ideas for a crazy chick with an BA in Business Management and a working knowledge of 3 languages? I also sing and dance (not well) and don't mind doing a hard days work... -aly
9/25	TazGirl..... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! FireWife
9/25	TazGirl-you are cracking me up!! Happy Birthday! FireChica
9/25	Hi guys. Thanks again for the positive words and support. Today is my b'day so I'm going to dinner tonight with a bunch of friends. I made reservations for 16 - 20 so hopefully that isn't too many and dinner won't be too chaotic. Maybe I should've kept it smaller... My FF called first thing this morning to be the first to wish me happy b'day. We never get to talk for more than a couple of minutes but that will all change soon, so no complaints. He verified he is on the Canoe/Honeydew not the Grindstone. They are camping at some prison camp or something like that. Bought his airplane ticket yesterday for October 5th!! I feel better after talking to some of my friends last night about all of it. I was worried about crowding my roommate and what not since he is going to be here for almost two months. A couple of my friends all offered their places as a place to go hang out, watch movies, whatever. My friend even offered her car for days when she doesn't need it. So that made me feel really good. Is there anything better than great friends? I think we will adjust just fine after a couple of weeks and hopefully he will be happy to not be working 16-hour days and playing golf and hanging out w/ me instead. Too bad you don't have two sons for Nerd and Fire Chica, Sammi. Shoot, you might need two a piece for these tough cookies. ;) TazGirl
9/25	Dear Northzone 5, I think that perhaps you misunderstand. It would seem to me that Nerd was telling that story 1. just to tell a story and 2. to point out how people use all these romanticized ideals-of all kinds of groups, not just native peoples. I feel that I am a bit informed in this particular area because I have lived in Navajoland and have had a number of native friends. Some want to be called Native Americans, some just want to be called Indians. Truth be told, I have found racism (which can go both ways) involving native peoples in this country to be quite a bit stronger as you move east rather than west. But that has been my personal experience. In the end, you must simply treat every person and every encounter as unique. In general I find that there is not a whole lot of appreciation for people constantly saying "what tribe are you" which is responded to with a great deal of eye rolling, but I have always found that if you are genuine and show the proper respect that eventually they will invite you to partake in a number of jokes that involve race and culture. FireChica
9/25	Northzone 5; I’m not quite sure how to approach your post…other than to say that if you substituted just about any other ‘group’ into my experience, the story would have been the same. As far as my age and non-native status…please watch that you don’t make yourself guilty of exactly the kind of stereotyping you condemn. I may be young and gabacha, or hapa-haole, or anglo, but I grew up with Indian folks (which is one reason why I don’t fool around with the PC terminology; it’s generally not appreciated by the folks to whom it is intended to be ‘sensitive’). The point of the story was to illustrate the durability of jokes and innuendos on and off the fireline, with excursions into the area of ‘sexy’ stereotyping. I’ve spent a good deal of time as a third party by-stander in negotiations between tribal individuals and entities and outsiders, including but not limited to university research groups, the Army Corps of Engineers, and hired contractors, and I’ve noticed that the fastest way to these negotiations to dissolve beyond the point of no return is the first time one person looks at another and says “You’re not a real Indian, are you?” As far as working next to some Indian crew who may save my bacon…I’ve gathered basket-making materials with some Indian ladies (who I would be proud to call Elders) who are some of the wisest, funniest, and most aware people it has ever been my pleasure to talk or work with…and I work on a mixed crew; the faller who has saved my bacon a number of times is an Indian. So, as I’ve mentioned before, “You never know who you’re lecturing to.” (gently) Nerd on the Fireline
9/25	HI Everyone!! TazGirl... I think you and your FF will do great when he gets there. He will fall right into the routine with each other. It is kinda like when I moved in with my FF after we had only spent a week together. But after a day or two it will be like you tow have been together for the whole summer. And at least he is getting there when the heat is on its way out!! :) although I remember being able to go down to the bach on Christmas and we were able to put our feet in the water without to much damage to them! Well my FF is going to get a day off this weekend and we are going to the Lava Beds in CA !!! Our 3yr old can't wait. See she gets to carry her own flashlight and scare away any monsters that might be lurking in there so they don't get me. We had to make it fun for her and not scary. *smiles* So she is already with her flashlight and ready to go. She is already asking if we have snacks to take. FM... thanks for the websites. I love the aquarium so it should be wonderful!! How do I know if I can run the site on my computer though. I don't know what plugs are. *smiles shyly* BLM BOB... funny story!!! Goodbye for now FireWife Anyone seen Dawn lately??
9/25	Taz; FireChica and I don’t officially know each other outside of family said…we started e-mailing through Ab when the FF personals idea came up, and found out that we have some rather scary life-parallels, so we’ve been e-mailing a lot. There’s a shortage of young, single fire fighting women out there, so it’s nice to have somebody in the same position to tell stories with. Planning on meeting in person one of these days. Good luck with your FF coming in…sounds hectic. I just got out of Structure Fire Academy this past weekend and heading back for a back roads EMS conference this coming weekend…yawn. People tell me I need a day off, but I’m having trouble hunting one down…haven’t even seen its footprints. Nerd on the Fireline
9/25	Do you see how selfless she is! Cuter than you! Oh please! OK, well, perhaps I am very cute but you're a hottie. Sorry I missed the discussion last night. I have more to write but it will have to wait since I am being dragged off to boring events of the meeting type persuasion. Later! FireChica
9/25	AB(s), please tell the roomies that not all "Indians" are drunks nor fools. bet that Elder (drunk or not) was glad to see someone regardless of skin color or gender with the necessary tools to protect him and his; especially on a poor rez. jokes are fine, in a controlled audience; we are all guilty about forgetting our "audience" slop-over. unfortunately in many western states Indians are still considered varmints by the local Anglo population. as you pointed out to me long ago: never know who reads posts on this site.... someday Nerd may find herself on a fireline working next to some Indian crew who will save her bacon. (ok to pass my comments on to her privately if you choose not to post it in the Family room. Considering Nerd's non-native status and age group, I'm surprised she didn't call that Elder a "Native American" or "American Indian" to be closer to today's PC confusion about the "correct" term)... can't wait to tell my INDIAN Elders this story...... they will shake their heads, and hopefully laugh Northzone 5
9/24	BLM Bob: (laughing) Your story about the pink hardhat reminds me of another incident…During my first prescribed burn one of the guys decided announce that I was just one of the guys…which is cool up to a point, but I was trying to get the attention of a guy on another crew at the point so I really didn’t appreciate the sentiment (I don’t like having to hit a guy over the head to get him to remember I’m female…it’s counter-productive). So I grabbed a big hank of pink and green flagging and tied it onto the end of my braid, Little-Bo-peep style. Realize that that chunk of flagging was about four feet long, so it trailed and fluttered rather nicely. “There, do I look like a girl now?”…and I wore that flagging for the rest of the assignment. Actually our crew boss wound up with a pink hard hat and the moniker Sir Twinkle Toes on one assignment, but that wasn’t quite the same thing. Sammi: You remind me of a patient we had on my ambulance squad once…it was a very busy weekend, and we had two ambulance loads on the way to the hospital when we had another accident…with no available ambulances and six patients on the pavement, we had to bring the low-triage priority patients back to our station. One poor woman wound up lying there, back boarded, on our pool table for almost an hour. At one point, we asked her if she needed anything and her eyes got dreamy. “A biker boy…a baaaad biker boy…” We figured she was okay. By the way, Sammi, if you’re really looking for a nice FF girl for your son, and I don’t look like a good fit, allow me recommend Chica too…she’s smart, spunky, and definitely cuter than I am. "chica's boots" Nerd on the Fireline
9/24	Thanks for the support everyone. Made me feel better. Sorry I missed you last night Nerd. I think I left work right before I got that and didn't get online again until much later. I called my friend to come and give me a haircut. Nothin' a good girly chat, a haircut and some cold beer can't make feel better. Sorry, I had to rub that in for FireChica's sake...the beer part. :) I was just feelin' crappy yesterday and my boss's comments couldn't have been more poorly timed. It's just so insensitive and judgmental. Oh well, I'm over it now. Feeling better too because I heard from my FF this morning and got the go ahead to buy his ticket today. So that's pretty exciting and reassuring. Then I start to think about things and him coming here and I get nervous. I know I've already mentioned this but it is just increasing it seems as the time nears. It's one thing to adjust to your FF when it is your home together and you see him here and there... but the adjustments involved in him coming to my home, where he's never been, and not having seen each other (except for those 2 days) for five months ...well, it's a little overwhelming. And the thing is, I'm not worried about me necessarily, and my happiness. This is my home. But I want him to be happy while he's here. I don't want him to be uncomfortable. And I think part of my nervousness too has to do with the fact that he comes in the DAY of my championship bout and that is always crazy and chaotic and I won't get to tend to him as much. There will be sooo many people that day I will have to introduce him to and I know how old that gets, especially when you JUST got in town. Anyway, just some more venting. Thanks for listening. The Indian story was great, Nerd. Do you and Firechica know each other outside of Family Said? Just curious. I can't offer much in the way of movies lately. Haven't seen too many. Might try to go see Seabiscuit today. Anyone seen it? The book, Ghosts of Fire, is good, like Firechica and I have both said. It jumps around a bit, but the author is very interesting, articulate and perceptive. Next I want to read Fire on the Mountain. I need to read that B. Kingsolver book first though. As far as music, my new favorite CD is the new one by Coldplay. I'm so in love with them. They are very mellow and yummy. It's soooo good and it gets better the more you listen to it. His songwriting, voice and piano playing are very good. Thanks for the story BLM Bob. Where is Poet? Tonya? Time for roll call. TazGirl
9/24	Again I want to applaud the people on Family Said for having a fine community and holding interesting and important discussions. But what caused me to de-lurk was a memory stirred by the talk on women in firefighting. Some of you may recall that I once was married to a woman that was in helitack - I wrote here about sending some flowers to her at a helibase while she was on a fire assignment. We were dating when she decided to go into firefighting, so I did what I could to help her get going, but she did all the work. She had the desire and got into top shape (she could do ten pull-ups and all the rest, and later in life got hired by a municipal fire dept after passing the rigorous "combat test"). She got herself hired onto a helitack crew (different agency than mine), and I did what I could do to be supportive and helpful. We had lots of talks about how hard it can be for a woman to break into fire and be accepted. But I have sort of a mischievous nature, and sometimes can't help myself. One day early on in her first season, while her helicopter was pre- positioned on stand-by near my station, I grabbed one of my prized metal Bullard hardhats (we could still wear them then - it was a different time and a different place) and picked up a can of a nice pink spray paint. I went over to the helibase, and said hi to the crew - I'd known the foreman for some time. Then I set the coveted metal hardhat on the deck and carefully spray-painted it a pretty rose pink. When I'd finished, the helitack foreman snickered at me and asked "Hey Bob, are your guys wearing pink hardhats now?" "No," I replied, "not MY guys..." and I handed the hat to my girlfriend as a present. The entire crew looked on in semi-shocked silence. Now, you can just imagine how the idea of a pink hardhat went over with some of the less-enlightened guys in the fire world even (or especially) when worn by a hard-charging, strong, competent firefighter. BUT to her everlasting credit she WORE that pink hardhat for two seasons. It provided both of us with no end of amusement to see how people reacted to it. She said it was a pretty good barometer to tell who took themselves a little too seriously. It only worked because she was SO good at her job and held up her end of the ground-pounding and then some. Just about everyone that got to know her got in on the joke, and before long her crew was proud of her and enjoyed the whole thing. I always admired the strength and determination she showed in being a first-class firefighter and being able to stay in touch with her feminine side. I once flew air attack on a fire where her crew was building line, and I noticed that I could spot her easily from the air - that was pretty cool. Just a little story with no real point, except maybe that sometimes women (or people!) in fire can address vexing issues by confronting them straight on and even make a joke out of them. But I'm not sure I'd try a stunt like that these days. BLM Bob
9/24	Good words Taz....my comment is a big DITTO!!!! As far as the Indian remarks, my friends and family know if I every get the chance I am gonna get the nerve to ask a big hunking Harley guy with long hair and leather chaps to let me tag along to Montana and back. Notice the "and back". Most of the time when my hubby calls from a fire he will say "well obviously your Harley man didn't show up". So whether it be Indians, Firefighters, military or Royal Mounties we all have stereotyping ideas and dreams, eh !!!!!!! wanna be a Harley babe-sammi
9/24	Chica, you’re making me blush! Nerd on the Fireline
9/24	Hiya all, I've been away for a bit again. Things are going OK. My goodness, I missed an exciting few days on the board! TazGirl, I totally understand what it is like to have to work with people who cannot relate to you. At least you have somewhere else to connect. I too am reading "Ghosts of the Fireground." Pretty good book. I would like to add a bit to Nerd's description: Has a marvelous sense of humor as well as a knack for amusing phrases and descriptions. Is highly cultured with a great appreciation for the finer (yet not pretentious) points of life. Has a great variety of interests and a number of adventures under her belt. People who are intimidated by her intellect and abilities sometimes fail to see she is actually a big ole softy and a good friend. Later! FireChica
9/24	Taz: I empathize…after spending three years as a hotshot’s girl, anything I did that showed interest in fire was chocked up to infatuation with my HS…even by him. I didn’t tell anyone but a few very special friends about my plans to get into fire until after my HS and I broke up. Here’s some penny psychology for your boss, though; I think he’s jealous. Every man wants to be a hero…a secret agent, a warrior, a firefighter. Your boss’s life doesn’t sound all that exciting or romantic (interior decoration not exactly being a high-adrenaline sport) and I think he’s envious of both you and your FF. After all, you’re the kind of people who get books written about them! You can probably shut him up by looking him straight in the eye, arching your eyebrows, looking incredulous, and saying “Why, I think you’re jealous!”. Of course, my success in fending off such things has been notably spotty, so I wouldn’t listen to me. We were on one fire earlier this summer, stationed doing structure protection on the rez, and this old Indian guy who must have been about sixty and very drunk decided to tell me that I was most amazing woman he’d seen in a long time. Needless to say, my engine mates, both of whom swear up and down that they were asleep at the time and thus couldn’t possibly have spread the story, told the entire town. The next morning I walked into the café, our usual base of operations, and the whole place burst out laughing as the town police chief greeted me with “How, Princess Firewater!” and needless to say the story hasn’t slowed down any since…three months later I get charcoal on my face and it’s war paint, and heavens forefend I should get caught by a member of my department in any way associated with beads, feathers, or anything leather. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that romance makes good stories, whether it’s a motivator or not. And that people will make of a situation what they will. I think one of the reasons I got in so much trouble over that incident is because we were joking on the way down that we were going to find some cute little “indias” for my engine mates…they were looking a little underfed (sarcasm) and could use some fry bread. For the record, this is not intended to be insulting or patronizing to any group; but Indians are just as romanticized as firefighters, if not more. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. Nerd on the Fireline
9/23	Taz.....seems like you are having a rough time. Even tho I understand how hard it is to be "different" than the people you work with, unless they are family or your room mates they really don't have an investment in your life or feelings. if they were friends they would be supportive, not downers. I have total empathy with your feeling alone in the big world and the only female in the state with a relationship with a FF. That does set us apart and it also brings all kinds of emotions from other people. Most of them are seriously in awe of the FF jobs. It's the hero syndrome, especially after 9/11. Maybe if you put a picture of your guy on your desk or whatever is your space that would make him real to them. It is very hard having a relationship with a phantom. That is one of the most important reasons we as family need our own lives and our own successes. It is very hard to wait in the background for a hero......hang in there he is worth it. Sammi
9/23	I must vent... My boss, who is not just my boss but a friend in a way, just saw my fire book... Ghosts in the Fireground.... and gave me a look like I was the stupidest, cheesiest person on the planet. One of those like, "c'mon, give me a break" looks. Why? for some of you that don't already know? Because I do not work in fire and the whole wildland fire fighting business barely exists in my world and/or circle. Therefore, the only reason I would read a book about fire, as he sees it, is because my boyfriend is a FF. And because I want to read about how sexy FF is because that's the only reason I'm with my boyfriend. Um, NO. Hardly. Sexy would be him actually being here to see me. The whole sexy HS stereotype thing went out the window a long time ago and it never was THAT much of a presence to begin with. My other co-worker then joined in and was like, "yeah, it's probably a romance novel." !!!! That was what he piped in after I tried to tell them it was more of a historical novel, which it is. It's about the Peshtigo fire in the 1800s. Can someone explain to me what in the hell that has to do with my boyfriend?!! Sorry for all my exclamations and what not. But it really upset me. Why can't it just be that I've become legitimately interested in a world that was unknown to me up until a few months ago and that it has little to do with my boyfriend? I hope I am conveying articulately why this upset me so much and how misperceived my boss was in his comments. I don't talk about my FF at work (okay I did just a tiny bit right before I went to see him two months ago) and I don't talk about fire, but yet they see me reading a book and probably think I'm obsessed and all in love with some guy just because he's a FF. Makes me so mad. I told my co-worker a couple of months ago that I was thinking about attending classes in October for dispatching and he literally looked at me like I was crazy. The imaginary boyfriend is really getting to me.... I have this whole other world and relationship that no one knows about, yet is so much a part of my life. And except for a few friends, no one seems to give a rat's *ss. Thank Abs for you guys!!! I guess I have vented enough for now. If anyone wants to chat tonight, let me know. I could use it today. I'm kind of at my wits end. And to all you moms out there, you are very inspiring. What wonderful daughters you must've raised and are raising...and sons too for that matter. BQ sounds like quite the smart, insightful girl. Here's to people who just don't understand, TazGirl ***Did I mention the fact that my boss's constant problems and issues are all we talk about around here....mostly interior decorating and his new car?!!! Give ME a break!!!
9/23	Thanks, Terry! I love the way Lauren Bacall was able to put guts, competence and class together and make it look so good…I think that was an idea that got lost in the 40s (if it ever really existed at all…FYI To Have and Have Not is one of my favorite movies). I guess that’s the end goal, isn’t it? To do whatever you want to do, do it really, really well, and do it with style…not just outward style, but inward style: compassion, humor, grace, tact and joie de vivre. Nerd on the Fireline
9/23	Fire Wife...& other mom's educating their little ones... Often in the fire realm young families are in the "out-back" and quite isolated from the educational opportunities of larger urban centers. Young families are also usually pretty tight with their family budget. So, here are a couple of excellent internet sites that provide some "real time" outside stimuli and educational resources right at your fingertips: www.omsi.org OMSI (Oregon Museum of Science and Industry) is part of an online science network which provides teaching modules you can access for free. Lots of cool stuff to sift through and links to other such places across the country. I think BQ and I are going to explore the "Understanding Water Fountains" module...which includes...."Making Your Own Fountain." www.mbayaq.org/efc/efc_hp/hp_obw_cam.asp <must have a microsoft plug-in> Monterey Bay Aquarium has an excellent site with five LIVE web cams so you can watch the sea life there at Monterey Bay, Calif. facility. When I checked to see if the site was still operational before posting this, I clicked in just in time to see a huge sea turtle and a sun fish swim by. There are sharks too. My two favorites are the Outer Bay Cam and the Otter Cam. The Outer Bay Cam lets you listen to the music they have playing in the exhibit which is really cool. The Otter Cam is just plain fun to watch. I recommend you don't leave the Cams page open for long periods though. It costs them $$ to accommodate the data flow. If you're not watching it, click to another page. One of my worst problems raising little ones in isolated Forest Service compounds was the lack of access to anything stimulating. (Yes, I know...the woods hold mysteries and lessons of their own....) I would have loved to have access to stuff like this back then. Hope it helps. FM
9/23	Before I rush off again, Nerd, check this site out for Lauren Bacall. Tahoe Terrie
9/23	Amelia Earhart was good… My heroines are Beryl Markham, Gertrude Bell, “Lipstick” LaVarre (I highly recommend ‘Gold, Diamonds, and Orchids’ by William LaVarre, If you can find it), Lauren Bacall, and Catherine the Great…resilient, brave women who went out and did what they wanted to do. As far as well behaved women…I think anyone, male or female, can make history if they take life’s lemons and make lemonade in the face of all opposition. If they can do it and stay well behaved while maintaining their personal integrity…well, extra points for style. In the interests of equality of the sexes (wink to FM), my male heroes are Prince Rupert of the Rhine (the last heir to the throne of Bohemia), Emiliano Zapata, and anybody played by Humphrey Bogart. Not to mention lots of people I’ve known personally. Has anybody seen “Pancho Villa”? I want to go see it, but it’s one of those movies I think could be great or could be awful. I think it’s out… Nerd on the Fireline
9/23	From Firescribe for Taz: Honeydew Fire (Nor Cal) photos Steeeeep, note the ocean in the background.
9/23	In the spirit of "lightening things up"...my movie recommendation of the week is "No Such Thing." The director only drops the ball a couple of times with the story theme and I'm finding myself hurrying through my daily chores so I can rewatch specific Monologue sections (the monster provides an outstanding and heartfelt performance). This is not a gross, half-brained movie. The production is on the mild side of alternative, but unique enough to keep you (me) engaged. In her "perfect timing" way, BQ was standing, looking at my "Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History" bumper sticker. She got in the truck and said thoughtfully, "Mom, that's not true. I think Amelia Earhart was well behaved." I think BQ is historically correct. I feel blessed to have this little person in my life. ; ) FM
9/23	Quite the discussion going on here regarding feminism and the workplace. I don't really have too much to add for a couple of reasons. You guys have hit all the points I can really think of, and sooo articulately I might add. I haven't run up against too many walls just yet to have as much perspective. I don't have a career yet so that could explain some of the lack of perspective. But growing up with an older brother and seeing some of the double standards in that area I did run up against those walls. I was a very frustrated teen due to these double standards. I think a lot of smart, strong teenage females become depressed and/or rebellious due to these ugly double standards and think it is much harder to grow up a female than it is a male....the coming of age part, that is. And for more reasons than one. Maybe more on that later. I am kind of scattered brained today because I have a lot on my mind. So bummed that I missed chat. I zoomed out of practice, only to find my roommate (w/ the computer in her room) had already gone to bed. And I had to meet a friend anyway for a celebratory drink. She just got an amazing job...and hey, I even helped her write her cover letter. My derby season is almost over and practices will be less frequent so I can participate more. I have spoken to my FF the tiniest bit here and there, not since yesterday morning. I guess now he is either out of range or dead cell phone. It was roaming last we talked so could only talk super briefly anyway. At one point he was on the Grindstone in northern Cali but seeing as how he has called me from the beach, it looks like he is on the Honeydew. Unless something else major happens, he should be finished on the 30th. So there is a real good chance he'll be here in Texas the weekend after this one!!! I can't believe the time is here. Boy are the next two weeks gonna drag. But not too bad since all my b'day festivities are this weekend. I'm getting a little nervous about his visit, hoping that he can stay busy and learn to like it here.. at least until December. When you go this long w/o seeing someone, things can get skewed. Expectations, etc. So I hope we can make things work and it all just isn't a fantasy, I miss you, now I can't stand you game. That is just my cold feet talking. We've made it this far and hopefully can "keep on, keepin' on." Did I get it right FM? ;) Funny you can have a dream about people you've never actually met. Sammi, you were in my dreams last night. I dreamt you and hubby came to visit and then some kind of chaos broke out and I wasn't available and you guys left before I could even say goodbye. I was a very bad host and felt very guilty. I wonder what that means in reality? I have very vivid, powerful dreams so I try to listen to them. But you were nothing but nice in my dreams after I apologized for being a bad hostess. Very understanding... Better get back to work. Catch me up on anything I missed in chat. Nice to see you lurkers comin' out of the shadows now. Glad to have ya. TazGirl
9/23	Ok, so I was going to sit on the fence in this equality debate but just couldn't stand it. Mine is more an observation in contributing to the debate. Like Sammi, I grew up in a small "good ol boy" community. It still is for the most part and is in the heart of ranching territory. For most in this community a woman's place was in the home. That is until it was 3 am and a first year heifer was having trouble calving, or the fields needed brushed in the spring and the new calves needed vaccinating, or it was rodeo time and the fields needed their second cutting of hay before the rains came, or there were 200 head of cows that needed AI'ing. I have always found it ironic that the "good ol boys" who wouldn't here about having their wives work, have never blinked an eye when they needed her to run the combine or baler. Women have been doing equal work for many more years than the equality movement. It's just that until then no one ever gave them credit for it. My grandmother graduated from college with a teaching degree in 1921. Back then they if they were teaching, they needed to stay single. Once you got married it was the kiss of death for your career. I remember my mom telling me that my grandma made her promise to get her degree and to teach for at least 2 years before she got married. She was always on us about getting our education, and not settling for the first guy that came along. Incidentally, my mom married her high school sweetheart (my dad - love that guy) after 2 years of teaching and this year they celebrated their 53rd wedding anniversary. Don't know if Grandma was trying to make a statement or not. I just know she was an insightful woman who taught me alot of good life lessons before she passed on. To this day, in our family if someone puts their foot down, and refuses to budge on an issue its called a "Florence". I feel for women who have never had the privilege to know someone like my grandmother. To know the struggles and work they put in for themselves and for future generations of women just makes me all the more proud I'm a woman. We have been given the gift of choice. I think think to remember and cherish is that. We may not need to bowl people over with "I am woman, get out of my way!"; but in honor of those before us, we must not become complacent either. There are still alot of women out there who don't think they have ability or right to make it on their own. Those of us who have been graced with strong female role models need to continue their legacy. Ok, I'm giving FM her soap box back. Thanks for the loan. Fire Wife, It's quite alright. I was getting pretty bleary-eyed myself. Signed off not too long after you. If you're interested in any more info you can email me. Abs can give you the address. I'd be happy to hunt stuff down for you. I also have some other info you might be interested in for your DH. Have a great day, see you all tonight. Heli
9/23	Whoa, did that turn out to be a conversational hand grenade! Being a baby FF2, I have run into the baboons (“Can she really do it?” from an assigning officer, “Whoa, you’ve got a chick on your squad?” from a fellow firefighter on the line), but my crewmates and crew boss (I’ve never thought that was a gender-specific term) offered to beat anybody who pissed me off “like a red-headed step-child”, so it’s never really been a problem. The only person who’s made me really mad about gender issues is a fellow female (as discussed before) who insists on ramming her (and by extension our) female-ness down everybody’s throats. As I move on up the ranks, I’m expecting to run into it more, but I’m not worried. There’s always an *sshole, that’s life. You work around them, you convert them, or you steam roller them, whatever works best for the *sshole in question. And I haven’t found anything that works better on *ssholes than listening respectfully to their ideas (whether good, bad, or bass-ackwards) and then demonstrate that you can work hard and competently. What feels really good, though, is when we walk in parades and such (we’re a handcrew; we don’t have an engine to ride) and women, or better yet, little girls, see that I’m a woman wearing the same uniform, carrying the same pack, and carrying the same tool as the guys. “Look, Momma, it’s a firewoman!”. Fire fighting is one of those things that every little boy, and increasingly I think every little girl, wanted to be a for a while and then decided was impossible for them; regardless of gender, I think it really comes down to that “never say die” attitude. Nerd on the Fireline (adequately self-censored, Ab?) Ya done good. Ab.
9/23	Ok Abs, why are you over there on that "other list" telling them to sneak over here and listen to our conversation? The next time they start talking about wearing panty hose to keep their legs warm, we demand to know so we can go listen......right girls? Gosh Abs did ya ever think you would be riding herd on such an awesome bunch of people? Comment? maybe my eyes are still blurry from last week but I do not think it is a negative that some women or men choose to go to certain levels in their career and level off and remain where they choose to on the ladder. I know many women certainly not in the FF business that have reached a stage where they are happy and comfortable and wish to remain there. I happen to be one of those types. I made a conscious choice to stop the climb because I did want to still have a very active hands-on element of my job. I knew I would not be happy just leading people around and making policy etc. One of our daughters stopped at LT because of the same reason. She also knew she wanted to be in the trenches and did not want to be stuck behind a desk. For women especially, I think this is a symbol of, "we know who we are and we are happy with us" . We are not out to prove anything and certainly don't need to tank over people to get there. For me it is, I can be proud of who I am and my associates know I am ethical and will tell them to their faces not their backs when I have an issue. But I will also take them to lunch or at least high tea for the gun fight. and now I am off to fight the tigers......see ya tonight.......sammi
9/23	FM, HG, ras, smokecapt.... Sorry I got off without saying bye. The computer kicked me off for some reason adn then it wouldn't let me back on. This house is weird the phone line has no dial tone for about 15 minutes after you get off the internet. So the computer kept saying there was no dial tone. UGH!! HG... Thanks for trying to figure out my next life, wherever it may be. FireWife
9/23	Totally for Women in the workplace in the fire environment: Been following the discussion in Family said - and I agree with most points - especially about real change coming from stepping outside the box and developing one's own management style and taking risks. One has too to break thru the glass ceiling of the male rooftop. But the femininity issue comes down to an observation over twenty five years. Those women that fought A LOT of fire - usually chose to stay close to the fireground as they rose thru the ranks. There are many women FMO's and Asst. Fire Staff's - who choose to go no further as they found a niche without having to play the overt politically correct mindgames at the highest level. Most of these women know how far they can go and choose not to - I've asked many of them why? - and they don't want to be considered "favored" or politicians - or worse - power junkies. On the other hand, look how many women broke through the ceiling, manage to do great work as administrators and directors, but at a cost of giving up experience on the line and developing key operational skills. What's changed with women in the upper ranks, since about 1990 they have risen through independence and free thinking and utilizing some sensitivity in management (that many older fire dogs just don't see as an attribute). Although some women in "power" also abuse it, play favorites, and quite frankly - "know it all" - even when they're wrong. That promotes the lore of unqualified. Good managers "play and share with their people" so underlings can succeed. Some appear more interested in chunking qualified males but I guess that's a spin-off of the adversity caused by the consent decree; "stay in one place and the world will open up for you, but you might have to kiss a little OH derrière. So what's changed that helped the cause of women: 1) standards, 2) socio-dynamic equality (ad nauseam CD), 3) some of the more experienced women actually making a conscious decision to use their field experience (beyond squad boss, or dispatch center leader) to honestly seek reform - and who can argue with those who have put in their "NFL" season with the troops on the ground. As far as standards: many men and many women never made it to the elite Type 1 firefighter level pre 1985 for a simple reason - physical standards were changed for many programs. Used to be a qualification that 20 pull-ups were needed to pass the jumper physical. This knocked out so many candidates. When the standard was changed to seven - the results tell the story. There are many more examples of how standards have changed that have opened the door for both male and female, especially the adoption of ICS with its inherent co-ed command and general staff positions. Many males and females grew through the ranks by getting involved - it was a processing procedure that helped bring change to all - and the savvy women took more advantage of it. No more "fire bosses" (gender oriented Title); now via ICS, its easier for any gender to become incident/area commander, or a "chief." The smart ones took advantage of it. Also having a female Fire Director in the mid-nineties helped the cause (sensitivity training "three days in May," Mutual respect, etc). All good things AND excellent opportunities. If you can't change the system, modify or update standards and training. A good male leader stands out no more than a good female leader. All support to Women in Fire - but lets not overlook what changing times have done "for the good of the order." Thanks for the opportunity to share, "Emerging Flower"
9/23	Ok GIRLS,,,,,I am gonna jump right over about 30 posts and get my 3 cents into the "I am Woman hear me roar!!!!" discussion. ( I have to do this without giving away to much information) so please use your womanly instincts to read between the lines, words. I grew up in a tiny town in West Texas that was so "good ole boy" it was practically slavery for women. (this was many, many years ago.....) my siblings and I were fortunate to be raised by our maternal g'ma while our mom went to college in the next large city. (which was very rare for women back then) G'ma told us every day how important it was that we help with chores etc so mom could finish her college. G'ma was a gentle little whiff of a woman but I never saw her raise her voice or back down from anyone, ever. I remember one day after school in third grade, some mean ole boy had thrown rocks at me and my friends for the umpteenth time. So I ran home crying with sand all over me...grandma grabbed up the baby and with 4 little kiddies and one baby we went charging down the street to the mean little kids dads car shop. I remember very clearly g'ma quietly told that man if his son EVER attacked her granddaughter again she was gonna come down and close up his shop.....that little boy NEVER threw another rock at us. (Good job Grandma) G'ma finished about the 4th grade. Mom did get her degree in business and started in the hospital business office right after she finished college. g'ma still kept house and took care of the 5 of us chillins. Long story short. Our mom retired as the executive director of one of the largest medical centers in her area. G'ma died many years ago the year I had our first baby. She always taught us two things I never will forget....the truth will always be known it may take a hour, a month or years but it will always come out. (And that is true.) And "hell hath no fury like a mad woman" "but you'd better be respectful" . Because of these two very strong women in my life I stayed in school, got a degree, even with kids, and have a very good career going. (of course my husband was very supportive, but maybe he was afraid not to be) I work with lawyers, law enforcement, judges, etc. I have never had a problem with the gender thing. maybe behind my back but certainly not to my face. These guys I work around call me for support and advice way more than I call them. I have also seen women and men come thru the doors straight out of college and they have an attitude, they don't stay around long. Some men come out, holier than thou, "I'm here, move over". and I just ignore the ------they try to dish out. I don't have time or patience for baby macho wanta be men type people. and the women seem to have "I'm pretty, take care of me" or "I'm WOMAN, let me show you my attitude!!!!" and no I do not mean every man and every woman has this mind set. Thank god they are few and far between. Just like a lot of other things I believe my success was the definite result of my childhood and the principles I was taught by that strong little woman and then my mother. In turn I have passed those lessons on to my daughters and they are very successful at what they do. Both in family and careers. And also I have tried very hard to teach our sons that women are not here on this earth to wait on them and bake cookies. That is great if they are happy doing that and there is absolutely nothing wrong with stay at home moms and cookies. (if there was more of them I wouldn't have a job, and believe me I wish there was no call for it) ) But if the women in our sons lives want to be FF paramedics or neurosurgeons, that is ok too. It matters not a twit what we do as long as it makes us happy and we are good at our jobs. We have 2 daughters in the FF profession in different segments. Both of them have run across the macho baboon. And their brothers want to go kick ass but the girls tell them. NOpe, I will handle it my way. Then the girls call me, I give them the killum with kindness speech but don't be a pansy either. So basically we women in this family have made it in men dominated careers with a few scars but they knew we were there when it was over. There is no right or wrong way to handle this stuff. Follow your inner gut feeling and it will take you far. Then if you want the Calvary,,,,call and I'll send the troops. (who have never beat anyone up, that I know of) I do need to say here, that my husband has always been right here beside me, (well at least in the same country) the whole time and he has always had a very close and strong relationship with our kids. They tell him everything sometimes long before they tell me. Apparently I am too "mushy". Their words not mine. And ya know what.....as long as we treat our SO's with respect and support and they treat us with respect and support then we are all successful. Right? Because whom else do we need to please but ourselves and our FF's? And now I have no idea if I strayed way off the topic but I feel better. Sammi And Abby I changed the identifiers.....thanks sammi You did indeed. Ab.
9/23	WOWZA! just skimmed the recent posts... looks like the Family chats I've avoided may have contributed to a heating up of topics in here. looks like some good debates - will come back for a re-read. before I do, any women want to hear the stories I heard after my baby joined a Shot crew? (women = old enuff to vote, aka adult) about the couth book, too < chuckling! 10 yrs ago women entering any FF service had to fight for an equal place in the men's occupational realm -a very difficult uphill battle. in wildland often UNTIL they went to fire camp; if females heard "cat calls" from the idiots, their crewmember guys walked one on each side to and from showers, chow, wherever! <snip> < needs to save up a few bucks for grub; who knows how many will be here with spouse/SO and kids once the snow flies..... welcome mat is out but please give me a few hours warning if you wanna eat <grins> "old Shot's parent"
9/22	Abby, there is nothing you have said that I disagree with, with the exception of your suggestion that "things have changed." I would very much agree there has been an evolution, and yes, that connotes "change" but certainly not a total one. And it certainly does matter what industry and part of the country...and world we are working in. Nerd, I don't believe you were saying anything "badly." And please don't think that my disagreement with some of your points translates to an attack. It is only disagreement. Let's see if I can say this simply...There is a vast array of ways in which we all interpret and respond to situations. Abby, your explanation was very thorough. Still, it has been my experience that, if I, personally, do not exhibit the appropriate "niceness factor" I am labeled with some form of feminist slang. There is very little middle ground. I don't think there is any question that I am passionate about some very specific issues. That passion has also been labeled...and not very kindly. But, without that passion, even now...even today...the status quo will remain firmly entrenched. This is not a phenomenon of the past. I will also say, however, that various similar methods are used to suppress movements of change, regardless of gender. It just wouldn't make sense to call a 50-year-old white male who happens to be pressing for an overhaul of his company's disability coverage a "Femi-Nazi." But there are other methods to pressure him into silence and/or make him uncomfortable. Abby, you said, However, you have to admit that was a sentiment held by some of our earlier generation of "sisters" in the '60s, '70s, and 80s. It also was the sentiment held by some of the pioneer women in fire. For some it was necessary to be that proactively militant at that time to raise awareness of gender inequality and unfairness. Women who were compelled to be involved in change then were mostly, OF NECESSITY, in reaction to the status quo and to incidents reflecting the status quo. Absolutely, Abby. But, if you've watched the forerunners of these women through history, they have evolved in their communication and management styles...or they haven't advanced. (Okay, well a few have and some of us are still waiting for them to learn new skills). Still, as you so aptly put it, there was a reason for earlier impassioned behavior. What I am asking is that we understand it and not disdain it. You've helped articulate that. However, I truly believe that, just as abuses in the logging industry in previous decades have given the groups fighting against natural resource harvest the tools to halt responsible contemporary harvest methods, so too has ultra extreme behavior by "early era equalitarians" made advancement difficult during the 80s and early 90s. (Yes, this would indicate that I agree with both you and Nerd on at least contemporary extremism.) It's a thin line. My request is that we not forget - even though these early women may not have executed the smoothest maneuvers - that our own hindsight is much more acute than our future vision. At least they did the best they could to make changes. The courage to do that deserves respect. So often today I hear young women berating the Equality Movement as absurd...or perhaps not as offensive, but just as thoughtless - ignoring the advancements, and the opportunities they have which others paid a high price for. My older daughters and I have had quite a few heated discussions over this. But, I guess, when it gets right down to it, perhaps I'm expecting something that will never happen. It won't happen for the exact reason I've been working so hard...I have been working my entire adult life to give them a level of comfort and security that didn't formerly exist. They have options they wouldn't have had even a couple decades ago. So, I should be content right? But I'm not. I appreciate the fact that we can talk like this. I appreciate the fact that we can see things a bit differently and be able to discuss those differences. I just don't think I'll be comforted in this lifetime with the belief that all the needed "changes" have taken place. FM
9/22	FM, Nerd, and all others, Wow, now this is really exciting! A discussion about "Women's Liberation"! This is probably an antiquated term, but it is what I remember of the loosening of societal bonds that let us women enter into jobs and opportunities (including income earning ability) that we weren't privy to before. I even remember "bra burnings"! I'm not sure FM and Nerd's ultimate positions on this issue are really all that different. Maybe it's just too late in the day to comprehend the subtleties of the arguments. As a member of the older generation, I'd have to echo Robbie's mother's comments from a few days ago. Those of us whom you younger gals may consider trendsetters, we really didn't do anything particularly extraordinary. We just set our goals and plodded along to obtaining them. Living our lives - day by day. (I must demur to the use of words like vision and heroism.) However, there were leaders and heroes like Gloria Steinem and others who helped us all along. And of course, there was the really, really older generation (even before my time!) who worked to get women the right to vote. I think it is very important to remember what life was like for women before suffrage, and birth control, and the women's liberation movement. But all of you, FM, Nerd, and others, including the mothers of young children are laying the groundwork for your daughters and grand daughters just as we and our mothers did. From what I've read here on FamilySaid, the future of women's rights is in good, strong, hands. Let's not forget that it is not a given even in today's world, that women will be treated as equals. Remember the poor young mother in Nigeria who is currently appealing a death sentence, by stoning, for the crime of adultery. Even today it is important to remember that there is a need to be strong and supportive of each other and our collective rights. Each woman is different. I've always been a very quiet person, but very willful. I decided when I was 15 that I wanted to be a lawyer, and I worked toward and accomplished that goal. I had the encouragement of a father who stressed that education was a way out of poverty. He had less than an 8th grade education. And the help of a very wonderful man, my husband, who put me through college and then quit his job and sold his sports car to go to law school with me. (Our kids still cringe at selling the sports car.) My point is, I never used the "I'm a woman, get out of my way" approach. In fact, I really find that approach fairly annoying. I even find the "Erin Brockavich" approach annoying, although this is in no way meant to take away from her accomplishments. I just think that whether we're talking 40 years ago or today, it is performance that counts. Women must have the education or training that is necessary for the position they want. And then they must be competent and persistent. There is still very much a glass ceiling in corporate life, or so it seems. And firefighting has to be one of the last frontiers for women. I'm sure there are men out there who will discriminate against women solely based on their gender. But, I think deliberate, competent persistence will pay off. And, if any of you run into discrimination, give me a call. I don't do personnel law, but I'll sure refer you to some one who can. Or, just sic the FamilySaid group on them and then they'll be sorry. You are all wonderful and I look forward to read further discussion on this issue. Best to you all. Another Montana Mom
9/22	Abby; Thank you very much…you’ve made my point far more articulately than I was managing to…as usual my attempts at explication simply resulted in me shoving my foot further and further down my throat. What I was attempting to point out (badly) was that there are still a few (or more than a few) militant “FemiNazis” (I hate the term too, but occasionally it fits…) who use overly confrontational tactics to get their way in whatever male-dominated arena, using their femininity to cry “discrimination!” when a decision really was made innocently, or to try to set their female compatriots above other members of their profession based on their femininity (equal rights versus special rights). I had a run-in with one recently; she made me so mad it’s taken me a quite a while to sort out exactly why she made me so mad. Women like that tend to give all women in their profession a bad name; there’s a backlash effect where resentment toward nonexistent discrimination creates discrimination where it wasn’t before. Like insisting on gender-neutral pronouns ALL THE TIME, PC police behavior (as distinct from couth office duty), or that female firefighters are more capable (and should be promoted faster) than their male compatriots because they overcame greater obstacles to get into fire service in the first place. I know for a fact that this woman made my life more difficult on getting into fire because the male firefighters around me were incredibly nervous around me; they were expecting me to jump down their throats for the slightest slip in PC. Once they figured out that calling me “one of the guys” wasn’t going to elicit any negative response, life got a lot easier for everybody. And I personally think that a more comfortable crew is a safer crew because communication flows more easily. Nerd on the Fireline
9/22	Hello all, I admit I am a lurker here at this message board only writing occasionally, but I come to read all of your posts often. My husband is based out of Colorado. I noticed some of you have family on the Needle Fire. That is where my husband is as well. Hopefully he's only out there for about a week more though. I am missing him badly. I'm sure you all know how that feels!! Anywho, thank you for all your posts. You have a been such a comfort while he's been gone! DS
9/22	FM, Nerd and others, Time to de-lurk. FM, I don't think Nerd is necessarily attributing to you the sentiment "I am woman get out of my way". However, you have to admit that was a sentiment held by some of our earlier generation of "sisters" in the '60s, '70s, and 80s. It also was the sentiment held by some of the pioneer women in fire. For some it was necessary to be that proactively militant at that time to raise awareness of gender inequality and unfairness. Women who were compelled to be involved in change then were mostly, OF NECESSITY, in reaction to the status quo and to incidents reflecting the status quo. I can remember one really smart and competent woman, new in forestry in the early '70s, being told by the male department chairman (who later became the Director of CDF) that she wouldn't go far in a career in forestry because she was a woman. In response, this woman simply shifted over to biology and took all the forestry and other natural resources classes she needed (aced them all), and went on to become one of the cadre of pioneering women making changes for all women in fire. I don't remember her as one of those reactionary "I am woman get out of my way" types, although she had a right to be, in my opinion. Rather, she was a sweet smart young woman who had the guts to keep making her good decisions, adhering to her personal style and following her passion in the face of the male status quo. Some other women in forestry, fisheries, wildlife and other "natural resources" did it that way, too. But some used the more militant, reactionary path, because when you're doing something for the first time and it involves bucking such a large, solid, entrenched network, what you do sometimes just comes from the gut with all the harshness and polarization that goes along with that. My point is that in the 60s, 70s and 80s women found their own personal way of making change, which sometimes included the "in your face" method, in part, as a result of the solidness of the "environment of male dominance" in careers involving "natural resources". Things have changed since then. The current status quo is more one of fairness and "women can do anything they set their minds to". Armed with the knowledge and the foundation provided by women (and many good men) in the gender-equality-pioneering days, I think women of today can usually make greater change by simply living their expertise (which I think is what Nerd was saying), minimizing polarity and being in response, rather than in reaction. (Actions speak louder than Attitude.) Let me share a few more observations to distinguish between the two. Response, to me, connotes moving with and altering the status quo by staying true to yourself and your purpose when confronted by a perceived unfairness. There usually is a sense of being able to step above your own issues to look at the whole picture and choose from there. It feels more like an aikido response: you see the situation and move to turn the dynamic to suit your creative purposes. It can often be done simply by your state of being, and includes attributes such as your ability to communicate, your intelligence and expertise. With practice you get better at choosing to respond. My experience with reaction at a personal level is that when it is honest, it occurs at a more gut level and can be kneejerk. It is true and useful at this level. However, some groups (and individuals) cultivate it as a style of action and sometimes employ it to try to make change. My experience in this day and age is that people choosing this as a style tend to see their issue(s) in black and white (when the world really is technicolor). To me using this as a style feels like using a 2 by 4 on someone's head when understanding and a feather would have sufficed to turn that head around. My experience is that if used consistently as a style, it can result in further polarization and entrenchment, not real evolution and lasting attitude change. I do think that reaction and response are both legitimate choices and can be legitimate strategies for behavior: sometimes an unfolding situation suggests one and sometimes an unfolding situation suggests the other. I like having the response option in my practiced repertoire of behaviors. I find it takes me further in creating real understanding and change than simply reacting does. It's also way more interesting. FM, "The world is decided by those who show up." First I heard that was from Ray Quintanar, head of R5 fire some years ago. Abby
9/22	Nerd, I'm not suggesting you haven't "bumped your nose" and good for you that those "fabulous good ol' boys" decided to give you a shot. But, I think your understanding of the term "Good Ol' Boys" differs from mine. It is a reference to the historical power network that gave out privilege or withheld it based on biased personal favoritism and gender, with no consideration given to skill and ability. It does not refer to all men in positions of management. I too, have been extremely fortunate to have male mentors. Some of my favorite human beings are men...who can think. --> I work in very unreformed industry, and am doing very, very well for myself by refusing to play the sexual politics card. What exactly would you define as "the sexual politics card"? I don't believe remembering where things have come from is playing sexual politics. I believe honoring those who have followed their dreams, even in unreformed industries, deserve kudos...men AND women. -->I recognize and appreciate the foundation laid for my generation of women by the generation before us, but I think now we’re at the point where “I am woman, get out of my way” will do us more harm than good; Is that truly the only thing you've heard me say? Wow. And certainly, Nerd, if "I am woman, get out of my way" were the persistent battle cry, there would be no progress, only stalemate. But, that, exactly, is where it is so easy to pigeon-hole the idea of equality. In one short phrase, you have summarized the way in which those tired of hearing about "how things used to be" scoop it all into one neat pile and call it "history." --> just want to go out there and get my job done. No special privileges, just the same shot the next guy gets. Thank goodness you have that job to go to. And "opportunity" IS a privilege - one that just came to you later than your brothers. FM
9/22	FM: I’m not quite sure where we disagree…I have bumped my nose up against the good ol’ boy network, and I’ve actually been quite surprisingly successful at busting my way through, in great part due to the support of some fabulous good ol’ boys who decided to give me shot and were quite pleased with the result. I work in very unreformed industry, and am doing very, very well for myself by refusing to play the sexual politics card. I recognize and appreciate the foundation laid for my generation of women by the generation before us, but I think now we’re at the point where “I am woman, get out of my way” will do us more harm than good; I just want to go out there and get my job done. No special privileges, just the same shot the next guy gets. And I don’t care if I get called “ma’am”, “miss”, “miz”, “little girl”, “baby”, or “gorgeous” as long as I get the space and the tools to do my job well. Alright, TazGirl; Here’s the verbal snapshot of me: I’m 22, 5’9” with long brown hair and green eyes, on the muscular side of skinny. People tell me I’m good looking but I usually don’t listen because I’m more interested in what I do than how I look doing it. My major faults are over-aggressiveness and intellectual arrogance, but I’m getting much, much better at not using my brain as a bludgeon. My biggest weaknesses are big dogs, good horses, and men who can dance. Bonus points for men who read. I was raised in a barn and brought up by field crews, so my house training is kind of spotty; I can cook well but I don’t do it often, and my cleaning skills are downright iffy, because I generally come home to sleep and dump gear before heading off to the next thing. I’m a tomboy and a half but I like to think I’m a lady too (in the old-fashioned sense) and I have a green dress I’ve been told qualifies as light artillery in the war between the sexes. I’m very much a one-man woman; like most things I do, I tend to jump in feet first and worry about landing later. I’m a rural-department vollie which means that I do it all; wildland is my passion but I enjoy EMT work (studying for my EMT-B right now) and I do structure, confined space, and HazMat. I also have a day job which results in eating money and new gear. I’m a scientist by training and an engineer by inclination, so I appreciate machinery even if I’m better at breaking it than fixing it. I don’t have a garage but I’ve got the cookbook and boot oil side of things down; no need to send those along. I also have a very pretty little cabin with a great trout-fishing stream off one side and a couple hundred square miles of designated wilderness on the other. He’s on his own as far as the hat rack goes…I’ve got one but it’s kind of full right now. The other heads-up is that I’ve got two fire departments and a rescue team who call me little sister, so the screening committee might be kind of rigorous. Can’t really think of anything else terribly important about me (I’ve gone on long enough already) except that in a nut shell, I’m a good girl with bad habits. Nerd on the Fireline (getting that job-interview feeling)
9/22	Okay, This time I really had intended to use spellcheck. As a matter of fact, I hit "Send" when I had intended to hit "Tools" and "Spelling." On that note, I did a bit of mini-research on "Apartheid" (not a Apartied...). And the little boy didn't "loose" to BQ. He did "lose" that particular race though. Those two items appeared to be the most bothersome spelling mistakes. Ab, Saturday I told myself I would spellcheck my all posts before sending, as I realize that's not your job. I had it in my heart, but my index finger didn't behave. I'll try harder. ; ( FM FM, somehow I overlooked the misspellings on your post. I don't want spelling or grammar to stop people from sending in their posts. I don't mind spell checking. I just kinda look them over for blatant mistakes. In the old days Original Ab just copied and pasted. Made for some very original, if confusing, posts. Of course "loose" is a word. Might not have caught that one - no little red ric'rack under it. Oh, you also misspelled barrettes. Fixed that too, but ya coulda fooled me on that spelling. haw, haw. Just ribbin' ya, of course: feel free to just send 'em in as is. Ab.
9/22	Hey everyone, I ran across this in my cleaning frenzy and thought you might enjoy it. I'd forgotten all about it until I found it. I don't know the author, it was in a trade newsletter from work. It's posted on my fridge now. SPEND YOUR TIME LIKE YOUR MONEY. Imagine that there is a bank that credits your account each morning with $86,400, but carries over no balance from day to day. Every evening, this imaginary bank deletes whatever part of the balance you have failed to utilize during that day. What would you do? Draw out every cent, of course. But each of us has such a bank. It's name is TIME. Every morning, it credits you with 86,400 seconds. Every night, it writes off, as lost, whatever of this you have failed to invest to good purpose. It carries over no balance. It allows no overdraft. Each day it opens a new account for you. Each night, it burns that remains of the day. If you fail to use the day's deposits, the loss is yours. There is no going back. No drawing against "tomorrow." You must live in the present, on today's deposits. Invest it so as to get the utmost in health, happiness and success. The clock is running. Make the most of your day. To realize the value of ONE YEAR, ask a student who failed a grade. To realize the value of ONE MONTH, ask a mother who gave birth to a pre-mature child. To realize the value of ONE WEEK, ask the editor of a weekly newspaper. To realize the value of ONE HOUR, ask the lovers who are waiting to meet. To realize the value of ONE MINUTE, ask the person who missed a train. To realize the value of ONE SECOND, ask a person who just avoided an accident. To realize the value of ONE MILLI-SECOND, ask the person who won a silver medal at the Olympics. Treasure every moment you have. Treasure it even more if you shared it with someone special, special enough to spend your time. And remember, time waits for no one. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift - that's why it's called the present. Heli
9/22	Nerd, While I understand and respect your position on "being singled out simply because you're female" I don't agree with it. Which is okay, right? We have that latitude here. In a crew scenario, I certainly do agree that group cohesiveness is crucial and gender differentiation for the purpose of function is not only counter productive, but can be downright dangerous for the entire crew. But, you have stepped to the plate on an issue that has been alive and well for a number of decades...There are valid points on both sides. But, I for one, fully support applauding and shining a light on strong women in occupations they previously weren't allowed to set foot in. By doing that, we're NOT saying "Hey, look she's s-p-e-c-i-a-l." The message should be a clear and resounding, "She's strong and capable and has succeeded in an area where her passion is. And you can do it too if that's what you want." Nerd, that's the message us older folks have been trying to get across to our daughters and our granddaughters. But, the message, if it has been successful, doesn't come across in billboards and picket signs. It comes to you by opened doors and occupational (and income..) opportunity... It comes in the form of freedoms and options...yours to pursue should you CHOOSE. Let me broach the subject of competition...If you haven't had your face slammed up against a grisly monster called "The Good Ole Boy Network" yet, that actually would be unfortunate. Because, once you do, the understanding of competitive advantage comes blazing through like a quasar. Having slogged through that swamp many, many times over the years, I know full well that being a woman has been used against me in order for my competitors to win. "She's just overemotional. It must be "that" time of the month. She's just being oversenstive. She's overly aggressive." On, and on, and on. Names and classifications used to derail straight forward issues. Only be keeping the issues on the table and refusing to hack into the "Red Herring" that's repeatedly thrown on the table as bait, have I made progress in my chosen paths. I will say, however, that I have come to know incredible business people of both genders. Those are the individuals I look to for advice and guidance. I do think our society is growing weary of the whole gender equality debate. But, the debate surrounding South Africa's Apartheid bored some folks too. Yesterday we took BQ to the River Forks park at the confluence of the North and South Umpqua for a picnic. There is this incredible fort structure there that encloses a kid's play area. BQ really loved it because she's enamored with Lewis and Clark right now. Her last summer hoorah was at OMSI's Camp Kwanalong over at the coast for "Lewis & Clark Adventurer" camp. Anyway, she was having a blast, playing with her cousins and some other kids. There was a young boy who sauntered into the fort enclosure and started yelling "No Girls. Girls Out. No Girls. Only Boys." Big deal right? BQ looked at him like he was an idiot and kept playing. My husband came around the corner with his camera and called to BQ to come sit with me on the cannon for a picture. She stopped and turned around...she was standing right by the boy. When my husband called her name (which is clearly very much a girl name...we don't call her Bionicle Queen in public..) the boy's mouth dropped open. BQ has short hair and refuses to wear barrettes, so, doesn't look real girlish. The boy pointed to her and said "This one? This is ___? Right here?" I thought he was going to start crying. Why? Well, seems just a few minutes earlier they'd had a foot race out on the grass and BQ left him in the dirt. Why is this significant? Because it was okay for him to lose to a boy, but not to a girl. BQ just smiled a big smile and jumped down to come have her picture taken with me on the cannon. The boy stood there and glared. How do mothers overcome this early conditioning? By raising healthy boys and girls who feel free to make their own choices and respect the choices of others. Nerd, I'm thrilled you're immersed in an occupation you very clearly enjoy and seem fulfilled in. I'll say to you what I've said to my own daughters, put yourself on the outside of your current situation and look in on it. Pretend its Christmas time and you're looking through a plate glass window at a treasure you know you'll never touch. It wasn't that long ago when that was exactly the case. The gratitude you can show is not ignoring the efforts that went into opening that opportunity for you. The gratitude can be shown by encouraging young people OF BOTH GENDERS to pursue their dreams regardless of outside societal and cultural pressures. Ciao, FM
9/22	I just re-read over some posts I guess I had missed. Oregon Jewel, happy b'day...belated!!! I hope you enjoyed it and had a great b'day. Mine is coming up this week as well. Think we will go out for some Indian food. Funny, you had Indian summer, I will have Indian food. Sammi, yes, it was indeed Nerd that is holding out for that son of your's. But man do you make him sound pretty good in your description. I think we should hear Nerd's description (in the same style as your's) to see if they match. C'mon Nerd, whaddya say? I've read your wildland FF description and that was hilarious. Now you just have to do the same, but for you specifically. FF's Dad, I just read your post today. It was very insightful. Glad to see we do have a man around here and that you enjoy our posts too. And thanks for the derby compliments. Season is almost over...boo-hoo. As for your advice to us independents w/ no dependents...I'm trying to do exactly what you were talking about and taking advantage of my situation the best I can. It would also be easy to just stay here in Austin and have fun. But there are too many opp's out there that require getting off my butt and moving. It has worked out well for me so far and I have met a ton of people over the last few years that I will never forget. Those experiences stick with you and have really taught me a lot about myself. And moving to new places and restarting your life requires strength, and if you don't start out with it, you will surely gain some by the time it's all said and done. It's going to be time here again soon for me to leave the nest again. I trust you all will still be around for me to lean on when the time comes...right? I crashed on by bike this weekend and am quite sore today. I think I might've pulled a tendon in my leg or something. I'll live. I think it will just be kinda sore the next couple of days. My FF is still in northern Cali. He calls at night and in the morning but we only talk for a couple of minutes since his phone is roaming. But that is better than nothing and we don't have much to talk about at this point anyway outside the arena of 'when are you getting here?!!' Thanks for all the compliments on the pics...and my granny. And thanks to Mellie and Ab for passing them on. Hope you are better FireChica. TazGirl
9/22	Hey Everyone, Hope you all had a great weekend. I spent the weekend reformatting one of my hard drives and cleaning out the front porch. My SO will be sooo impressed when he gets home and finds he can actually walk up to the front door without a rescue team to help. Poet... Awesome painting! I love it. A woman of many talents! Taz... Happy Birthday, Libra sister! My birthday is Saturday, the 27th. Get to spend it without my SO though, he's still (as FM says) being held hostage on the Needle Fire. They don't want to give them leave until they have a "season ending weather event" so it looks like his next R&R will be spent in a motel room somewhere in WA. We just have to hang in there, they'll be home with us soon enough right? I told him he'd just have to take me out for my birthday when he got home. Besides, I'm getting old enough now I'd just as soon skip a couple birthdays anyway. Great pics of you and Granny. There's nothing more special than family. Firewife... Your babies are beautiful! Thanks for the pics. I think we need to have a Family Said reunion next fire season when all the guys are gone. Maybe hit one of those hot springs. Sammi, how about being our tour guide? Well, better go to work and make some moola. Heli
9/22	Dawn: BACK OFF HE’S MINE. You’ve already got one. Sammi; Do you want me to pay the postage? Slap a stamp on his forehead and send him down here…wow, he’s even tall (I’m 5’9”…tall is a plus). Sigh. Now you’ve derailed my train of thought for the rest of the day. Everybody else: I was raised on Gerald Durell and the original Oz books by Frank L. Baum…chock full of smart, gutsy females. I had structure fire training all this weekend, and at the end of it, one of the local (female) chiefs wanted to get all the women together to take a special picture. This brought about some active (if not impassioned) discussion; being female in addition to being FF doesn’t make us ‘special’…it just makes us another set of hands on the line or on the hose or on the engine. If we single ourselves out, that’s kind of counter productive. When push comes to shove, I want to be dispatched and assigned based on what I can do, not by somebody who’s thinking “Oh, Nerd’s a girl, so we’ll put her here…” I want them thinking “Oh, Nerd’s a damn competent Firefighter, so we’ll put her here…” I’m a very specialized confined-space rescue team, and we have a special call-out procedure for communication within the team…I’m number three man. When I’m yelling out “Number three man okay!” Or “Number three man in trouble!” I’m not going to take the extra time and thought and say “Number three woman”. That’s pretty silly. By the way, I got my structural FF1 (whoo-hoo!). I’m still wildland at heart, though…one of the instructors commented that I was rather aggressive about going through walls during overhaul, and that cutting line through somebody’s living room and then firing out the kitchen really wasn’t what we were after. TazGirl; One bad apple really can spoil the bunch as far as guys are concerned…I’ve noticed that people tend to make relationships into self-fulfilling prophecies…if they expect bad things out of relationships with female FF, younger women, blondes, brunettes, women with six fingers, or green people, they tend to have bad relationships with any of the above. The only thing that fixes that is love, courage, determination, and good will. And a bit of introspection helps. And if your cute, charming brother gets stuck on anything in EMT training, I’d be more than happy to lend some study-buddy help…(grin). Happy Birfday, by the way. P.S. Chica’s doing better. She thanks you all for the good thoughts. Nerd on the Fireline
9/22	Apparently Sundays are our "off" days...I don't see any new posts all day. Look forward to hearing from all of you Monday morning. It is now Sunday, midnight for me. Just got back from the festival. I saw Jack Johnson, Ben Harper and REM!!! It was pretty sweet. Good friends, good music, good beer, good fun... Oh, when I think about leaving this town.... My FF called right when REM was playing. At least I could share it with him. He is on the Grindstone now and will officially be done (I'm pretty sure anyway) on the 30th. Then he will drive to Salt Lake and then fly to Anchorage, and then come to Austin. And it kills me because if he misses my championship roller derby bout, it will be by a day or less!!! So I'm still crossing my fingers that he can boogie down and make it. It might take only a 24 hour stint in Anchorage to pull it off. He would do that for me though right? ;) There were 75,000 people at this festival today. And it's only in it's second year! And it only cost me $50 for my three day pass. That's pretty cheap. I saw a lot of really good music!! I'd better go. Talk to you gals tomorrow. TazGirl
9/22	Hi people, I am back to my normal crazy life and reread my last post. Boy, I must have been tired. I was trying to give our son to Nerd, not Dawn or Taz......unless one of you wants him. After all he is free. And he can come home for maintenance not eminence or whatever I wrote. (I think that was a spell check error, not possible it was me.) I was determined to sleep late today so we skipped church and was so asleep and the phone rings at 7:30am and the available son is on cell phone on his way here for breakfast and to get some kind of machinery he left a month ago. So we had a nice breakfast with everything you can imagine would be breakfast food. He thanks us and gives hugs and is out the door to go see what damage he can do to something he is building. This pm I took a four hour nap,,,,,, My ff husband is home, for the winter, I'm sure. So it was good timing. He had to re-train himself to home life because I was seldom around. He has cut some wood and even has all his gear back where it should be. Most everyone went straight to their own nests so I missed the usual roughhousing, let's get mom session. We will have a huge Thanksgiving and they can assault each other then. Looks like most of us have the guys back home, or at least close. That's good. (maybe) later sammi
9/22	Mellie.... thanks for doing that for me... Poet... I loved the pheonix and the fire.... Too awesome!! FM... Thanks for the info on the leap pad but does it work with the first leap pad for ages 3-5? Or only the older kids one?? Well starting tomorrow I will be alone... :( My DH is going out to do some burning and will be gone all week. I have to find a way to sneak an I love you card into his bag. :) hummmm and what do I want to sleep with??? *smiles* FireWife
9/21	Any of you interested in old issues of Home Education Magazine? Let me know. Also, Fire Wife, if you have the Leap Pad, also check out the module that lets you download stuff off the internet. You use a blank cartridge like the ones that come with the theme packets. The url is: LearningClub@leapfrog.com. Have fun! FM
9/21	Hi Everyone!!! I am so glad to be able to have some time to get one here and read. I have only had time to read, not respond lately. Went into Klamath today and did some Christmas shopping for my kids. They are so spoiled!! But it makes my family mad because I only like to buy educational toys. Like LeapFrog. They are the best!! TazGirl... I loved the pics of you in Derby mode. Granny is tooooo cute!! Okay dumb things I do when my FF is gone. I have fire pics of him from past years and I bring them out to decorate with. I cuddle with his pillow on his side of the bed. And I also save all his messages and listen to them at night. I also like to call his cell even though I know it isn't on, just to hear his voice and then I leave him a message. I am too big to wear his clothes but I can sleep with them. But only ones that he wears to work so they have that manly smell... FireWife
9/20	Hi all, Well we are still just a houseful of girls, hoping to see that stinky FF we all love soon. A little birdy said maybe tonight or tomorrow. TAZ- LOVED THE ROLLER DERBY PICS! Hope everyone is doing well, and since I haven't read anything about firechica..I am sending good thoughts her way. SAMMI- Your son sounds good...but I need a spare FOR fire season! LOL Dawn
9/20	Taz, You crack me up....of course you aren't the only one that saves and listens to the voice mail messages. I do it daily...sometimes more than once if it's a tough day. I am wearing one of his old hickory shirts and levis right now...standard weekend farm wear for me...my family gets kind of sick of it Winking smiley emotion. Last week when I wore one of his fire t-shirts to run in to the feed mill the clerk asked if I was a firefighter....had to laugh at that one. We all do the things that comfort us when we're apart....like checking in on Family Said daily...well OK, more than daily, I admit it. I had terrible news about our upcoming trip to the Grand Canyon in 3 weeks....they CANCELED the mule rides to do trail maintenance! I am so bummed. We may have to substitute a raft trip instead, but it will not be the same. And just think I had read 131 pages of "Brighty of the Grand Canyon" on Friday getting ready for our adventure. I celebrated my birthday yesterday with the company of good friends and family and am heading out dancing tonight. It's a glorious Indian summer day here in Oregon and I'm painting windows for our barn. Oregon Jewel
9/20	I put all the photos up that I've been working on the last few days. Take a look at theysaid for the links to the photo pages. In addition, if you go to Fire 19 there are two photos at the end, a bit tongue in cheek. TC contributed them and said, "Not a fire, but still great pictures..." This Ab agrees. They may come down with the next fire photos that come in, but Bambi, NC Crew, Brush 6 and other easterners (and everyone else) should definitely get a gander at these. WOW. Readers, we'd like to draw your attention to a new artist, Terry Wofford (Wofford Studio, the Art of Flight), represented on the Classifieds page under Books/Videos/Art. Some of you who read the Airtankers Pilots Message Board probably know her work. She does fine images of AirTankers and now has a new and very nice "call of the wildfire" t-shirt for sale. Check it out. I am assured it is soft and pliable, great to wear and would make a nice gift. Ab.
9/20	Uh...yeah right...like I could really sign off on Friday night until Sunday or Monday?!!! It's really late Friday night, or more like Sat. morning at this point and yet, here I am....checking into Family Said. Dwight Yoakum, by the way, was AWESOME!!!! Aly, yes, I think the tanker kitten plays a big role in all of this. Do I care:? No. Because I know I'm really different and our relationship is different so it doesn't matter. And because I don't have my heart set on the line. Otherwise, he would have a real 'situation' on his hands. But I think dispatching suits me. Thanks for the comment on the 'determined glint in your eye.' That meant a lot to me. 'Cuz I think I am pretty determined and it's always interesting to hear when people notice. Especially people I've never met that notice those things. Still haven't talked to my FF. Yeah, I know...wah, wah. It's only been a couple of days. But I'm so close to the end that it's going to go by real slow and all you ladies will be hearing about it...okay? But my birfday is next week so that will be nice and distracting. My brother is throwing a party: Can any of you come? ;) I'll find you a cheap ticket. Feelin' a lot of love tonight, Taz Girl
9/20	It's 11pm here and it is down to the wire on my project for tomorrow. Took a break and read the posts. cannot let Taz post begging for one of my sons to pass. We just happen to have a young, single, 6'2'' well built, studly male available. He is potty trained, well educated, (mom did that), very much the gentleman (or mom will kick butt) he eats anything available, not picky, likes all of the female persuasion, but is definitely a one woman man. he loves to fight the dragon, jumps out of perfectly good airplanes, (could be an insurance issue) and he spends all his $$$$$ right now on his truck but would rather spend it on a family ( I can convince him, I'm sure). He is a burly handsome (but dirty) wildland firefighter in summer. In winter he changes to handsome clean structure firefighter/EMT and ski bum/ski patrol. All you need to do is love him and the smell of smoke and nature will take care of the rest. (you can send him back for eminence every 6 months) Mom will throw in all cookbooks, operating instructions, laundry soap, boot oil, and baby pictures. All you need is a hat rack for his Stetson...and a garage for the truck. PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! momma sammi
9/20	TazGirl- you're awesome. It was a real treat to see your pics. The one with your Granny speaks volumes about the love in your family. I'm not much of a public contributor, but am talking off line with some FamilySaid regulars. And, as the season winds down and everyone will be scattered soon, I really want you all to know that it's been a privilege to learn about each of your lives and your interests. Our common interest is wildland firefighting and fire fighters. My son, oldest of three, is a 2nd year FF, so that's my connection. If I get personally involved, it will be to work to improve FF safety on the fire or getting to and from. But, this is the family side of the board- (how insightful were the Abs when they figured out that Family would want to talk??). What I see on the FamilySaid side are all women posters- with, no doubt, a few men lurkers like me- who are passionate in some way about their careers, their SOs and/or their families. At the risk of being the only male poster all year and banished forever, I'd like to share a few insights that have developed over the years: For those seeking a career path- follow your heart, interests and talents. That's what dedicated FFs and fire-related people do- they just can't get enough. There's something really adventurous and rewarding about it. My kid says "I can't believe they pay me to have so much fun!!" If you gotta take a crap job for a while- then that's what you gotta do. But let it be a stepping stone to something greater and not put you in a long term holding pattern. "You only achieve what you're willing to settle for" (author unknown) For those who are no longer a dependent but don't yet have dependents- This is a precious time in your life when you get to be really selfish- either by yourself and/or with an SO. If your intentions are honorable, you can make all kinds of mistakes during youth and recover without damage. So experiment, be adventurous, and, as opportunities present themselves, don't be shy. "We may never pass this way, again." (song from the 70's- don't know who) Re: SO relationships: Be your own person. Honor each other and cherish the love, but "...the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow." (the Prophet, Kahlil Gibran) For those with kids- This is a precious time in your life time when you have the honor of being responsible for the development of others. You get to advocate for your kids in all situations and tell about it on FamilySaid. You don't get a lot of time for yourself and you never get to not be aware that you have kids. You get to look back over time and be proud. For the empty nesters- I can't speak to that yet, I'm not quite there- maybe someone else can fill-in on this topic. With good wishes to you all and hopes to see your posts next year, FF's Dad
9/20	Hmmm, usual things I do when my HS is gone. Lets see.... I write poetry as you well know, paint, read voraciously, Journal (diary), and babble incessantly to my friends and coworkers about the wonders of my man. LOL I also have purchase a cheep locket at a local jewelry store and put his photo in it. When I am especially down, I just touch the chain, and somehow feel his presence. He knows I have it, I showed it to him. He did not know what to make of me. LOL I am SUCH a kid about this relationship. I save phone messages, and replay them until my darn cell phone service deletes them after a month. Glad to know others do that. <G> Anyone figure out how to record them or transfer them to another medium (CD, cassette)? Please let me know. Attached are pictures of my first few tries at "fire." I did these when I was in Atlanta. Abs, please feel free to resize these as needed. I also design and make stuffed animals, so that helps too. Otherwise the thing I do most is check FamilySaid a LOT when he is gone, and just see how others are coping. Poet We'll do photos again when we have time... Just finished days of them. Ab.
9/19	My mom had monster spray when I was little ... then one night when i had decided to take care of the monsters by myself (i always was an independent little bugger) i accidentally sprayed some on myself. I remember thinking I was going to croak right then and there. Good thing my mom had a sensitive nose, realized I smelled like "monster spray" (if i remember it was cinnamon-smelling) and explained very tactfully that it only killed off monsters. Funny the things you remember when you get to thinking...by the way, has everyone seen Monsters Inc? Great kids movie. Nerd -- it is waaaaaay tempting to spend my OT on clothes, fortunately I have not done so yet. I bought some socks...those should go with my sandals wonderfully and keep me (somewhat) warmer up here. Yowzas, it's cold lately. Good thing dispatch isn't exactly on the same par as Paris or Milan fashionwise. I know how the non-shopping small towns are (grew up in one), and it's a great thing when it comes to budgeting. But hey, you can always try QVC :) Taz -- great roller derby pics. Seeing you in the derby gear, determined glint in your eyes, I have complete faith that you not only could be an awesome dispatcher, but you could kick some a** on the fireline, too. As for your FF having a run in with a tanker kitten, it wouldn't suprise me. They do exist, and it's quite annoying to those women that are in it for the love of firefighting, not for the love of firefighters...then again, he could be worried you'll turn into the complete opposite, the scary woman firefighter that chews, spits, and cusses with the best of them ... Okay, stupid things I do when my SJ is away (which is...always.) Now that I'm always away, too, I always pack a picture I have of me and him in FL last year in the off-season, one of his old, ripped fire shirts and peppermints. He loves peppermints. No matter where he is he always has them in his pockets, in his pack ... so they remind me of him. Silly, silly. You'd think I was a 16 year old girl the way I pine over that man. I also save all my voicemail messages from him as long as my service lets me. Then he has this cute thing where he sends me postcards from the places they've jumped (or the closest place) with little pertinent facts. Ah...i've already revealed too much. He'll kill me. Or at least act annoyed. He'll probably like me bragging about him. Talking about him like this makes me miss him. Thanks all, for the support. --aly
9/19	Great to hear from you Poet. So envious your man is home. Can't wait...can't wait. Haven't heard from my man as I posted earlier and don't imagine I will until he is demobed from the Loma fire. Bummer. Hope that is soon though. Containment is already 35% today and they are mopping up and finishing burnout. Just a quick bye for the day. I'm heading out to see Al Green and Dwight Yoakum. I don't know if I can check in here again until possibly Sunday. Or maybe I can check in in the morning. Anyway, ya'll have a great weekend. (I'm SOOO addicted to this board) Hope some of you enjoyed the pics if you got 'em and let me know what you think. TazGirl
9/19	"Yawn" *stretches and blinks sleepily* Hello everyone! It was nice to read that you guys missed me. <G> I have been lurking in the background, but have not had time to write anything. My work hours changed, and I now work 8PM to 6AM. YUCK! We really needed to have a third shift with the workload at work, and I volunteered. Ah well. Now to the important stuff... My HS has been home for a whole WEEK. This is the longest we have had together. We were inseparable for the first three days or so, with him visiting with my parents when I was at work. I think they have adopted each other. Isn't that so cute? It has been so nice, knowing he did not have to leave in 24 hrs or less. Still does not seem enough time, though. Why do I have to have a job? It keeps me from being with him 24/7. (he would go NUTS if we spent that much together, but it is a nice thought. <G>) I told him about Family Said, and he still has not had time to read all the postings, or my poetry. He has been running around trying to get all the chores he has put off all summer done. Those chores were delayed because he has spent the last 3 or 4 visits home with me. <G> I have been keeping tabs on the goings on online, and have a few comments on the little kid stories. Mine are 18 and 20, (yeah, I am THAT old) but remember quite a few. I have a few things I would like to share and I hope they can inspire some ideas of your own. 1) Nightmares: Find a smelly can of air freshener, relabel it "monster spray" and have it handy for nightmares. When the child has one, get the can, liberally spray the room. Under the bed, in the closet, wherever the child directs you to spray. The smell "repels" monsters, and lingers more than long enough for the child to fall asleep. It works. 2) Seat belts: My children really rebelled against seat belts, and I found a unique solution. On a day that they both had invited a friend over, we all went out for ice-cream cones. Once they were in the car with their cones. (yes this can get messy, but it is worth it) I asked them to put belts on. When they refused, I did not say anything, but drove off with them in car as usual. I then drove to an uncrowded side street, and watched them in my rear view mirror. As soon as I saw one of the kids take a bite of their cone, I gently tapped my brakes. Needless to say, the ice-cream went splat in their face. I did this several times. Even their friends got the same treatment. They got the point. (embarrassing them slightly, while being humorous, seemed to help the occasion) Their friends think I am the silliest Mom and my kids just roll their eyes. But they ALL wore their seat belts after that. 3) Books: Anne McCaffery -Dragonrider of Pern series. There are at least 19 books in this series, and they are WONDERFUL. I grew up reading about dragons and such, and these books have wonderful strong women characters as well. Good reading for parents and children alike. Mercedes Lackey- Valdemar series. These have intelligent telepathic HORSES instead of Dragons, and have equally rich and strong characters. I have quite a few poems in the works, as well as a painting or two. I hope to take pics of my "practice" paintings and send in shortly. Can we have chats Friday, Saturday or Sunday? Those are the only days I seem to be conscious. I am enjoying everyone's stories, and am really impressed with the goals and aspirations of you ladies trying out for FF jobs. I really need to get into some sort of training myself, if I am to keep up with my FF. LOL. I lift heavy things and drive a fork truck at work, so I do get exercise, but to RUN, UP HILL, with a PACK? Yikes! One last note. When my FF came home, he was explaining some of the stuff he had done on the last fire, and I was able to answer, " Oh, you mean the Red Pack" or "Demobbed" etc. He just looked at me with amazement in his eyes. He was not expecting me to come up with terms to what he was talking about, much less understand it. You guys have corrupted me. LOL! Hugs to everyone. Poet Reminder, if you buy online please use Amazon and go though our black Amazon portal on the fire books page (link in the header). Do not bookmark the site, but enter that way prior to ordering. The management appreciates help with paying the bills. Ab.
9/19	Taz, Just watched Hedwig and the Angry Inch a couple of weeks ago. I don't think you're the only one whose confused. ; ) But, you know, there are a lot of really great one-liners as the main character is narrating. Dwight Yoakum, have you seen his part as to dolt Doyle in Slingblade? "If yer gonna kill me I guess you'd better call the 'hurst'." Heli, Yep, both those princess books are in BQ's collection. I'm so glad there are witty writers who pay attention to those messages. I just LOVE the message of the Paper bag Princess. Wrede's Cimmorene is so gallant and smart. When I was growing up, being fast, smart and witty (and in my case non-Mormon) were a death kiss. I had the mistaken idea that if I was bright I would be appreciated by the other kids. So I really tried to learn...to learn fast. You know, growing up most of us were looking for various ways to be accepted and appreciated. Nope. I didn't go to Primary (that would be Mormon 101 for the young crowd in elementary school). I was on the debate team (surprised?)...the track, volleyball and basketball teams. In Southern Idaho - a place that's a bit more, let's say, slow to come into the current century, there was much disdain and social pressure at the ready for young girls who would not conform. There actually still is. My father was kicked off the city council for wanting to lift the ban on selling beer on Sundays. Devil spawn. That's me. My own older daughters began to take the freedoms and the opportunities they now have for granted, sort of hinting that I was going overboard in suggesting they need to protect the freedoms that were hard won by the generations of women that came before them. It's hard to impart that message and not be considered a (okay I hate name calling but...) Femi-Nazi. I'm not. I really love being a woman. I love my husband being a man. What I REALLY love is people of both genders developing their minds and working together to build healthy, strong communities. That takes work... I do get rather militant when I see gluttony, greed, conniving, lying, excess, and abuse anywhere (and it's everywhere). Those things are like crab grass...turn your head and it takes over your whole front yard. But, an EQUALLY important lesson to teach our children is to temper our responses to things we abhor. I'm not real good at that, so it's an ongoing exercise for me. BQ is quite helpful in pointing out when I'm crossing the line. She has "a look" that usually takes most people three or four decades to develop. "Breeeeath mom....Just breath..." Southern, I'm glad you're back. I agree....where's Poet? FM
9/19	Bambi, an answer to your question on theysaid. Ab, Bambi, and others, In regard to the hurricane and what it did to my area; it was pretty minor damage. Winds peaked out at only 50 mph. Fortunately my general region is a pine ecosystem, so not too many trees went down and the storm sped up so not much in the way of flooding. However, where brush 6 would be; Duck (it's a real place...a really nice coastal town) and anywhere along the outer banks from Atlantic City north got hammered pretty bad (north east part of the state). I would say that Va. got hit worse then my hometown did. If you are curious about anything this news site is pretty good: www.wral.com And just for giggles, station 11 in my city got dispatched to a grass fire during the hurricane. Go figure. -NCCrew
9/19	Hey everyone! Just a quick note to say hi to all of you before I head to work for the day. I have to talk with my new boss today about my wages. I was a little disappointed in my pay scale based upon my experience. Expected to be paid more than I was because of what she was paying me when I was contracting for her. So...here goes nothing. I'll either be getting more money by the end of the day or back on the unemployment line again. I hate to sound greedy, but I just can't afford to drive 120+ miles a day, take 2 hrs out of my day, and put all that wear and tear on the car for what she's paying me. I'd probably be better off financially flipping burgers at Mickey D's here in town. Anyway enough of that, wish me luck! I couldn't help worrying about FireChica all night. I hope everything is OK with her. FM, Funny you should mention "Holes". Just the other night my daughter informed me that we needed to buy the DVD of the movie because she said it was one of her favorite books. I'd never even heard of it before that. Anyway I went scouring through Stinkerbell's bookcase last night and found the book so I could read it. Apparently, she bought the book last year on one of her book orders and read it. It's so nice to know how in tune I am with my child sometimes! (ha-ha) A couple of other books that are personal favorites around here are: Princess Smartypants by Babette Cole and The Paper Bag Princess by Robert Munsch. They are both for new readers so they are very simple and small but Stinkerbell loved them so much when she was young, she still takes them out on occasion and reads them. Princess Smartypants is about a princess who is being pressured to get married and she doesn't want to, so she creates all these horrible tasks for her suitors to accomplish in order to win her hand. The Paper Bag Princess is about a princess who is going to marry this prince, when a dragon burns down her castle and steals her prince. She ends up having nothing to wear because the dragon burned everything, so the only thing she can find is a paper bag to wear. Then she sets off to rescue her prince. Both books are "girls can do anything" oriented. Good fun, quick reads for little girls (and big girls). Ahh...The West Indies. How exciting for you! While the snow blows up north, you'll be basking in the rays. We're on our way to Hawaii this winter. I've never been outside of the continental U.S. so I'm looking forward that, can't wait to go check out the volcanoes and lava flows! Just keep that OT and Hazard pay coming! And speaking of trips. Taz, sounds like you've got quite the adventure planned! I'm looking forward to everyone's winter adventure stories already. So, it's great to see Southern is still with us, now we just need to hear from Poet. Wonder what that girl is up to? Maybe busy writing an epic for us! Sorry about the long paragraphs...got to watch those carriage returns! Take it easy, Heli
9/19	Ahhh...what would I ever do w/o Family Said to anxiously come check in the morning? It is Friday!!! Yay...what a slow week. And the music festival I mentioned is this weekend. You guys are gonna be so jealous. Well, you will after you go see www.aclfest.com and see who's playing. Dwight Yoakam is tonight. I love him. Haven't talked to my FF since he got to Loma fire so I assume cell phone coverage is nil. Oh well. I got to talk to him a lot in the week he was off. I'm getting very anxious about his visit, in a good way. I just can't even imagine him actually being in my bed sleeping while I get ready to go to work in the morning. Oh, and the simple pleasures of having someone to go to the grocery store with and rent movies with....you know what I'm talkin' about. I have a new topic, one that we can all swap stories about. What silly things do you do when you miss your FF and want to feel closer to him? I'll be the first one to step up to the plate and admit one. I listen to the messages he leaves me on my cell phone. He leaves the sweetest messages and when I haven't talked to him in a while I will just listen to all his messages. (Boy if Normal comes out for this one, she's gonna puke.) I know that sounds fairly innocent, but there are like 20 on there right now and it takes a while to listen to them. So come on, who else does silly stuff like this? I bet you wear his shirts...or listen to his favorite CD...c'mon, you can tell us. Mellie, I just read the Sit Rpt this morning and the Loma website. Looks like things are going smoothly and they will contain it soon. It was at 30% this morning. I'm so torn because man do I really want my FF home...but man does he need that money. I can't imagine where they would send him after Loma, so I'm thinking they'll head back to Salt Lake and then home (Anchorage) and then TEXAS!!! I looked up Shasta County yesterday on the web. It's so gorgeous! I have never been to northern Cali. I really, really want to go. Nerd, maybe you're right. Maybe it was the 'tanker kitten' as you called her that ruined him on that idea. She really made her rounds.... Southern, thank you so much for the encouragement. Such confidence in me, thank you. I wish I could go to the classes here in October but that is our busy time at work and don't see how I could. So I'm just going to apply w/o any training it looks like. I might apply to the Missoula Dispatch Ctr. As that gets closer, I'll be needing more help. I might be doing it from abroad if I can't get it done before I leave. Does anyone want to come to the October fire classes here in good 'ol Texas? They have quite a lot of classes to offer and it's only $40/day w/ meals. And you don't have to be nominated either. And I can find you cheap airfare. Did I mention that I live in Texas too and you can come see me while you're here? ;) Go to Ab's links and find the Texas Academy if you're interested. Norman McLean's son is speaking there too. He is the one that wrote Fire on the Mountain. Nerd, you're not that far away. And I have a really cute, charming brother that wants to be an EMT. By the way, I laughed when you said that about Sammi's sons. I would so be saying the same thing if I were single. I've already pictured them once....or twice. I watched Hedwig and the Angry Inch last night. Whoa...what a movie! Anyone seen it? Fire Momma? It's pretty good. I need to see it again though. I got confused. We also watched Michael Moore's documentary, The Big One. Frightening.... I guess I've gone on long enough for now. Glad to see you're back Fire Wife. Wish I could see pics of that little baby. Bye for now, TazGirl
9/19	Hi Everybody! Been really busy lately with the end of the season approaching rather fast. Now is the time when I have to tie up loose ends. Don't think I have forgotten about all of you as I read FamilySaid at work but haven't had time to get on line to chat. The stories of the young ones bring back fond memories since my babies are now 17in two weeks, 20 and 22. As I am reading the posts I will just start laughing out loud and can just picture all the stories in my head. FM- I am so happy that you get to go down to Texas in October. Are you going to try to make it to fire classes? If you ever get to Colorado I would love to show you the natural hotspring where I live surrounded by 14,000ft mountains. Taz- I would be happy to help you out any way I can to get your foot into dispatching or on the line which ever you decided to go into. You really don't need the training but it does help to start out with at least the basic firefighting so it's not that hard to realize what the people out on the line are talking about. My training at first consisted of D-110 which is expanded dispatcher or mostly ordering what a fire needs from overhead to crews. I then started Initial Attack Dispatching locally and haven't stopped since. My daughter took the same class as me during the same time but her love is working the line, she just doesn't like being indoors. This year I took more classes for fireline so that it will help me better understand what my guys are going through. Most of the firefighters in the class were really appreciative that I wanted to learn more. Like the saying goes "If you think you know all you need to know about firefighting you better get out of the business" As far as fire guys giving you a hard time if you decided to work the line let me tell you, The guys that my daughter has worked with have taken her under their wing and take care of her. Sometimes I think somebody needs to take care of them from her. She's 5ft 2in. and 100lbs but can work with the best of them from falling to digging line and if something doesn't feel right she will be the first to let you know. The guys I have worked with from all over the US have treated me with nothing but respect also. Taz, just by reading what you have posted I believe that you will go far. Please let me know If you would like help and please have your FF read FamilySaid because I think it might open his eyes toward what you want to do. My FF is back home in the South. He does get to come and see me in October for a week and then I don't know when I will get to see him again. I always promised myself I would never date a FF because of the work and the worrying but I went overboard last year when I met this one. Not only did I go out with him I fell in love with somebody who lives 2000 miles away from me. Maybe someday we will be in the same vicinity. It's been 15 months and I can't believe that were still together. Is that a sign that this may last? Gotta Go. Early morning at work and it's 1a.m. Thanks for listening to me. You all have become instant friends to me. Southern Loving
9/18	Looks like they may pull off containment on the Loma Fire. That would be soooooo nice. Lots of resources over there to watch for slop over. Talked with someone tonight and there are more than 1100 firefighters and support staff working on the fire, 22 type 1 crews; 15 type 2 crews; 2 type 1 helicopters; 3type 2 helos; 2 type 3 helos; 20 engines 2 strike teams of engines; 3 bulldozers; 14 water tenders; 235 overhead and 2 camp crews. One ff got heat exhaustion but was cooled off, pumped full of fluids and released. Goodness, I sound like SoCal CDF giving a report in fire class! If you trace it back, the friend who told me probably got it from the same Plans Section Chief. He said they're building the last of the containment line and they're going to burn out about 1000 acres in the middle to wrap it up. Now I can visualize them doing that in that terrain and then I remember our Big Bar fire and how many times the fire rolled out, spotted, or slopped over or blew up and out of containment lines with the wind, sometimes 6 or 7 days after burnout. He said they're giving it a 40-60% chance. So pray for the right kinds of conditions to give the tactics a chance to actually contain it. And oh yeah, Taz, he said that they were continuing to find weapons caches and pot gardens. Nearing harvest time, ya know, but never fear, law enforcement is present on the fire line. Bet the sheriffs are just loving having to eat that smoke! NOT! Mellie PS to Taz, cell coverage is spotty. It takes a bag phone powered by a car battery in our valley. Ironside Lookout is a mile above us, almost straight up! m PSS the photo of the Lewis & Clark HS buggy on Arcata Plaza.
9/18	Okay, Everybody: I’m not going to tell FireChica’s stories for her, but I’d take it as personal favor if everybody could send her a long-distance, no-questions-asked hug tonight…she needs ‘em. TazGirl: Bingo! Sounds like your boy had a bad run-in with a tanker kitten or equivalent…I have to say that in my experience FireChica nailed it…you get flirted with, but I have NEVER had an inappropriate experience in fire camp or on the line. I have found that if you treat firefighters like gentlemen you will generally be treated like a lady. IF someone decides to push, you will never, ever be as well chaperoned as you are on a fire crew…my favorite lecture ever: when I first started on one of my crews, the guys were so skittish around me it was getting ridiculous…no profanity, no nothing. I finally cornered the worst offender and asked him what was going on…he said that our crew boss had told them that “You are to consider Nerd my daughter and your sister, and you are to treat her accordingly.” So I promptly acquired eighteen big brothers. The last guy who caused me any trouble in this town came home to find six guys on his porch asking if he’d rather have his thumbs or his knees broken. Sigh. Excessive, but comforting…I think. As I believe I’ve mentioned before, it makes it hard to get a date. FM: Ooh, couldn’t you at least send me pictures? But I have my heart set on one of Sammi’s well-trained sons (hint, hint, lovely, wonderful Sammi). Are the Patricia Wrede books the ones where the girl gets very annoyed at the knights who come to rescue her? And the other princesses hanging around being useless? And she cooks cherries jubilee for her dragon and teaches herself herbs? I loved those! Couldn’t remember the author or the title though…I think I found them in my junior high library. Thanks! The image of BQ and the drum was lovely…I love dancing to a good drummer…never got the knack of drumming myself. Aly: OT moolah for fall clothes…tempting, isn’t it? Fortunately I live in a very, very small town, so that temptation doesn’t have much chance for an outlet…but a pox on mail-order 9and a bigger pox on clothes that look so good in the pictures and so bad on me! Nerd on the Fireline
9/18	TazGirl, Yeah, they found the trip wires and a cache of weapons (guns/explosives) on Tuesday just off of Prairie Creek Road (along border of the Trinity Alps Wilderness). Some people in this area grow pot and some weird stuff goes on from time to time. Whenever fighting fire on the Shasta T or on the Six Rivers, and maybe on almost all CA forests, you have to be very careful of possible non-fire risks like ordnance. During the Big Bar Complex in 1999 back in our side of the wilderness, there was one day when firefighters were pulled off the fire because of a weapons cache going off. Some caches date back a number of years. I was glad to see the photos of the Trinity River and the terrain. Our country is so beautiful, so rugged and wild. New River is a Class Five River in the gorge below our place. Not many people have rafted or kayaked it. Where it enters the Trinity River is Class Four, if I'm not mistaken. This country is not for the faint of heart. It's fun to see our place on the location map. If this were August I'd worry about the fire reaching us, but the rains are bound to come before it moves over/around the mountain -- if it's not contained before the rains. I'm wondering what impact this will have on the black bear population. Last Saturday I counted 4 different bears in our valley. I think there are double that number as so many had cubs this year. Saw a bald eagle too. I was in Arcata (on the coast) last night. The Lewis and Clark Hotshots (Great Falls, MT) pulled in, 2 crew buggies and a truck. They were on the way to the Loma Fire. Talked to a few of them. They were wondering how many more hours of driving to get there. They looked rested. I got some pics of their buggies. The hippies and others on the Square were checking out the rigs. The ff descended on eating establishments and seemed to be enjoying Italian, Mandarin and Sushi and the pizza by the slice place. There were some very cute guys in the group. Gee Nerd and FireChica, if I had your email addies I would have handed them out! Mellie
9/18	Hello Ladies!! I am so glad to be back on here. I have been so busy with moving into our house and taking care of the kids that life has not allowed for luxuries like getting online. FM... I love the idea of a worm farm and greenhouse!! Can the worm farm survive the winter in OR?? That would be fun for my daughter who is so worried about bugs!! She might learn to like them. Tell those ladies to Kiss your Butt!!! Robbie... The story about the little boy is too funny!!! I heard something similar in a child safety seat class that I took a few years ago. One Sunday an officer pulled over a van going about 0mph to see what was wrong. In front of the van was a little girl about 4 in a nice sunday dress. He asked the father why he was going so slow and why the little girl was walking. He proceeded to tell him that the little girl refused to put on her seatbelt so the dad made her walk. He told her if she didn't wear it in the car then she couldn't ride in it. The officer laughed and went to the little girl. He made her an honorary officer and was given permission to yell at anyone who wouldn't wear their seatbelt in the van. And she eagerly went and got into her seatbelt. About 2 weeks later the cop got a letter from the parents that it had worked and she was taking her job seriously. I found this very funny....And can see this little girl in a frilly dress walking down the road in front of the family car. I am with everyone about fire season being over. Although now the burning season begins. And that means them being gone still for that. UGH!!! It never ends. FireWife
9/18	Ab, For those who are interested, Women in the Fire Service will be holding its 6th Biennial "Fire Service Women's Leadership Training Seminar" in Miami in March. For more information on the conference and the organization, the web site is: www.wfsi.org . WFSI is accepting proposals for presentations for this conference. Proposals are due by October 15. The site also has information regarding other training & job opportunities, as well as news about ....well...Women in the Fire Service. Thanks, FM
9/18	Feeling much better today...not quite so blah. Maybe it's because it's almost the weekend too. I'm supposed to go to the lake again today, but it is pretty cloudy. I guess it doesn't matter either way because it will still be warm. The water is about 85 degrees!! Mellie, thanks for all of the Loma fire info. I was checkin' out that website yesterday also and today they even have some good pics up. The news release I read said it is the highest priority fire in the nation right now. And today there are over a 1,000 FF's on it. You're right about my FF coming home though. I should quit getting my hopes up too early since that only leads up to disappointment. I guess you heard about them finding a weapons and explosives cache w/ tripwire on that fire. What's up with that?!! That is some scary, weird stuff to me. Is there cell coverage out there Mellie? With Verizon? FM, yes, you're right about our SO's having plenty to talk about. That will leave them distracted so we can chat right? Yeah, just let me know your details whenever they are more concrete. I look really forward to meeting you. What a treat!! Can anyone else stow themselves away in FM's bags and come along too? Oh, I saw a movie preview for a Bionicles movie!! Boy, if your BQ (Bionicle Queen) gonna want to see that or what? FireChica, yes, my FF has only worked on Alaskan crews. And I do think that shapes his opinion a little differently than maybe if he had worked for lower 48 crews. He's never worked w/ a woman on his crew, although swears he's worked w/ a lot from other crews...enough to know. I'm not quite sure what all that means. But I do think his crew and maybe Alaskan crews in general can be quite different, more machismo. They are a different bunch. What do you think? I think he needs to hang around more females in general...the right ones. How 'bout derby girls for example? ;) Actually, now that I think about it, he dated a girl that worked on an Alaskan crew, probably a type II. But I don't think it was a good experience for him. I think she made her rounds with some of his friends and was quite the party girl and maybe that just leaves some kind of bad taste in his mouth. I dunno. Can you shed some light on what difference the Alaskan crew thing makes? It's interesting. Aly, thanks so much for your encouragement. Because honestly, I'm not sure I can get much training if any before applying. I will just apply anyway and see what happens. Charm 'em to death right? The information all of you have given me has been really helpful, and again, encouraging. We'll see what happens. Speaking of dispatch, where's Southern Loving? She must be busy these days. Guess that's it for now. Sammi....glad to see you're still out there and checkin' in. Take care, TazGirl
9/18	Dawn, My DH is on the Grindstone and I talked to him this am. He said he was unable to call last night because no ones cell phones were working for some reason. I know that it has taken him a long time to be able to get out on his cell when it has worked. (15 min or more of continuous dialing) If your DH is working on the Deafy fire, which I think most people are, these is no cell coverage there. -C
9/18	TazGirl, I am interested to know if your FF has only ever known AK fire crew work? From what I hear they are a whole nother breed of HS. I have never had any real problems with harassment. Lots of flirting and come-ons, but never any problems. Everyone I have worked with has been really supportive and they have made it clear that all I have to do is say if I become uncomfortable. Anyone taking anything too far has a quick ticket home! FireChica
9/18	Again no info from my husband. Has anyone else heard from their FF on the Grindstone? Just getting nervous. Bit of exciting news today...my older daughter lost her 1st tooth! Time flies doesn't it? Dawn
9/18	Hi guys, did ya miss me? Sorry I have been out of the loop here. I have a huge project I have to get ready for Saturday so it's work all day then half the night. I will be back strong Sunday....I'm still reading the post just not writing, so stay safe, out of trouble and have fun. sammi
9/18	Aly, I'm looking forward to the Yearbook gig. I just can't see doing it like they've done it in the past...Kinda like "Paint by the numbers" I'll show them the light...."Inch by Inch...Row by Row"...I like the idea of little ants marching from page to page. Well, Hubby didn't come home. A Div Sup. grabbed him up on the Needle Fire and is keeping him hostage...which is okay I suppose, I do need a new couch. Hmmm. Ohhhhhh, I miss him. I am trying very diligently to finish getting everything back in the kitchen cabinets before he walks in the front door. It's hard moving around in a house that's under renovation. You find you keep running into one another and soon everyone is annoyed. Has anyone read "Holes"? I just picked it up today at the bookstore to read to BQ. It's supposed to be pretty good. The book ladies were going "GaGa" over it. They were so darn cute. We also just ordered the fourth Patricia Wrede dragon book, "Talking to Dragons." The series is a "must" for moms with young daughters. It's about a princess who gets fed up with all the princess crap, and dealing with whinny princes and goes to live with the dragons. She's pretty fair with a sword as well. Though its cool here in Southern Oregon now, the temps are supposed to move on up to the 90s soon. Looks like an Indian Summer is coming our way. First frost on my windshield this morning when I took the wild one to school. I'm ready for the fire season to end. I tell the fallers that and they get sort of a stricken look in their eyes. For heaven's sake..... Does anyone drum? As in Jembe? BQ and I took our drums to the coast last weekend. The wonderful place where we stay has bungalows with no adjoining walls, so we can drum quietly...more loudly down at the beach. I woke up early Sunday and made a fire in the fireplace and opened the sliding glass door and came back to bed. BQ got up and started drumming. I looked up and saw her silhouette against the ocean, her little hands hitting her drum rhythmically...quietly. It was one of the loveliest visions I've ever seen. Just thought I'd share it. Oh...my word...the consequence naked boy story had me howling. I do love to laugh like that! What an awesome approach....but then I really do agree with experiential learning when those opportunities arise...which is daily in our household. Ciao, FM
9/17	Hey Taz, I sounds like our SOs will have plenty to talk about....chainsaws, fire and burning trees. ; ) I have to work out the travel details, but will get them to you when they're final. FM
9/17	Hey All-- I wish I wouldn't have missed the chat on Monday -- I got moved all around again, so I was in route to my new location ... and it's cold here! All I packed a month and a half ago when I was last home were capris and tank tops ... brrr. I guess that just gives me an excuse to go blow some OT moolah on clothes! Woohoo. I wanted to tell everyone that even though I haven't contributed much, everyone here means a lot to me. Being on the road all the time, it's nice to have a constant in my life... Tazgirl -- Just a note on dispatching... don't not apply if you don't have enough time for training. Apply anyway, because the fed. govt. loves to train people, and they'll train you after you're hired. Sure, you won't be as dug-in as the people who did get trained, but I think on the job experience is the best kind. I was also thinking about your FF not wanting you to be on the line, and I remembered when I started with fire. I myself didn't particularly want to be on the line -- I mean me, dirty? Never. But when I started I had to go to rookie school...and as soon as I got home I applied for a transfer to engine. I did that for 4 years, and now I'm back at dispatch. It's really easy to get hooked. FM- I was the editor of my yearbook in high school and I worked it in college -- very exciting stuff. Doing an elementary school one would be so much fun! I love the garden theme...or maybe an Ant Maze? That could be very neat, with the ants marching from page to page... AMM - That was some plume over that Lockwood fire, eh? Very nice article there, and great pics. Everybody stay in good spirits, it may be over yet :) Carefully avoiding excessive carriage returns, --aly
9/17	TazGirl, NorCal Tom posted the Loma Fire website link on theysaid. www.fs.fed.us/r5/shastatrinity/incident/Loma/ They're predicting it might be contained by Saturday the 20th, but I don't know. It's warm and windy today, ripe conditions for aggressive fire behavior and spread. It hits the wilderness and a whole new set of rules (MIST) will come into play. Last year we didn't get rains until sometime in Oct. In 99 the Big Bar Fire, in the same area slightly west of the Loma Fire, didn't get contained until it rained on Nov 5 or 6. Firefighters are trying, but you never know. The terrain is vertical especially in French and Little French Creek canyons. Some years it doesn't rain until Thanksgiving. We can hope, but your SO might not be back all that soon... If the fire goes on for a bit, come visit the Shasta T and Five Waters. We could join the parade of Lookie Loos driving down Hwy 299 (just kidding). People do like to drive and gawk. Why do we all have such fascination with fire? Wow, they used a combination of 7 helicopters and 5 airtankers yesterday, today I heard they had 8 helicopters but heard nothing about ATs. Forgot to ask. Today they have 15 type 1 crews, 14 type 2 crews, 12 engines and a strike team of engines and other resources, 480 personnel, getting up there in numbers. Photos of the beginning of the fire on Fire 19, taken by a couple of youngsters in our family trying to make it home. Mellie
9/17	hey nerd, thanks for the reading recommendation. i will definitely check it out. i'm kinda thinking that when my FF lover and I finally move to where we're going to build our house near the mountains, i will be changing careers and i am very interested in search and rescue type work and have quite a bit of time to learn all about it before then cause it won't be happening until about 5 years from now. wow that was a long sentence, huh. catskilldog
9/17	FM, Just a little side note I kept forgetting to mention to you. My FF sent me these great pictures of him on the Square Lake fire in Washington. And there is this great series of pics of him felling (right?) this huge tree. So I asked him if he is a faller too. And he is a Class C Faller. I didn't know that and thought it was interesting and just wanted to share the tidbit with you. TazGirl
9/17	Robbie, That’s brilliant! Very short note before I go off to take my EMT block exam…two of seven. TazGirl; I figured it was something like that…and I think your guy’s heart is in the right place (although that stuff about not having fire in the eyes…you have checked the boy for brain damage? How could you not love fire (tongue firmly in cheek)). Nerd on the Fireline
9/17	Heli, I have five fallers, including my husband on the Needle Fire. Tell your guy to look them up. They should be pretty easy to find, I'd think. They're the ones with the big friggin' chainsaws! ; ) FM
9/17	Hello all. I have just been in such a blah mood today. I checked here this morning and there wasn't much to see. And then I just took a "break" from work and when I came back there were multiple posts. Crazy how much that cheers me up! Not only that, but, Fire Momma, you're coming to Austin?!! That is great news. Unfortunately, there will be no more roller derby going on as our Championship is Oct. 5. But if you and your husband would like and/or have the time, I would love to get together. I can make dinner or we could go out somewhere. The weather will be great that time of year so we could maybe even grill at my house and make those margaritas we talked about. I would absolutely love to meet you. And my FF will be here by then too. Keep me posted. Nerd, thanks for your thoughts on the dispatch vs. line thing. My knee jerk reaction was kind of the same too as far as, well, is he reacting like that for chauvinistic reasons, etc. So I kept really questioning him regarding his opinions on not wanting me to work on the line. I think it came down to two things: 1) he is not passionate about this job and drawn to fire like a lot of other people are...it is purely work to him and he does not want to do it much longer than he has to; therefore, he does not want me to get "sucked into it" as well because he won't be in it much longer either. 2) I think he thinks I would be harassed by all the other guys and talked about in a disrespectful way, like I'm assuming he's heard before and doesn't want it to be about me. Does that make sense? I suppose his motivations are, for the most part, looking out for me and as long as that is the case, I can tolerate that over purely selfish ones. But I did tell him it would be a different story if I had my heart set on working for an engine crew, because I don't usually bend over when someone tells me I can't do something. His plan is to work a couple more seasons and then go into something else. He hasn't exactly figured out what that something else is though and I guess this tides him over. I can only go through another summer like this again if we live in the same place or together so that at least our days off are spent together. TWO DAYS since April 30th!!! I'm not doing this again. Thanks for the insight though. I thought it was interesting. Heli, I'm with you. I'm soooo over it. I mean, I know I'm not even working but my FF is really over it too. He is torn though because he really wants his 1000 hrs of OT and he has another 150 to go. He is on his way to the Loma fire. But there are so many crews on that small fire right now that the FF's could all probably join hands and make a circle around it. There are 800 people on it and the acreage is 1400. He doesn't think they'll be there long and doesn't know where else they would be needed after they're done with it. I know he really needs to stretch out the season as long as possible, but selfishly, I just want him to come home more than anything. I'm feeling extremely weary of this whole 'I miss you' crap. But one day at a time right? I think it was Catskilldog that asked where we would be traveling in the winter....we are going to SE Asia...Thailand, Cambodia, possibly Laos, possibly Malaysia. He wants to go to New Zealand too to see a friend but I'm not sure if we can afford to go that much further. We'll see. I can't wait to start making some concrete arrangements and securing some dates. Robbie, your story about your brother was hilarious. What a funny mental picture. And a clever parenting idea. FM, those PTA ladies just don't know how fortunate they are to have you do they?!!! You go on with yo' bad self....worm farms, greenhouses, fried chicken and all. ;) Guess I've rambled enough. Oh no, wait...I didn't get to tell you about my FF in Reno and how he almost lost $600 in Blackjack. Yep....dummy. He made his money back in one hand after another trip to the ATM and got real lucky. He was really gonna hear it from me otherwise. Why do men have to be some jackasses sometimes? (Can I say that Ab? ;) I mean it endearingly...kind of. Thanks again for everyone's support. If it weren't for you guys, I would be climbing the walls right now. Hangin' in here one Family Post at a time, TazGirl
9/17	Hey everyone! How's it going? Looks like everyone has been staying busy! I can't believe I've missed two weeks of chat. I'm so bummed. I don't know what's going on with my email but I keep getting Mellie's email about chat a day late. So, by the time I get the notification, you guys have already had your evening of chat. I'm just going to have to haunt the chat line and see if people are chatting I think. Taz, so sorry to hear about your loss in the semi-finals. By the way! I caught the Insomniac show with your roller derby group the other night! Great show. Looks like a lot for dangerous fun! You know what they say..."It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, and then it's a sport!" (ha-ha) I don't know if Montana is going to be able to offer you the same adrenaline rush you're used to. You might have to take up bullriding if you move up here! I can't believe how much has been going on with everyone since I last posted. Breastfeeding, homeschooling, derby semi-finals, fish tending, buying new homes, greenhouse constructing and baiting men with fried chicken! My new job has been great but the 120+ mile drive everyday is wiping me out. I don't know if the travel is worth being able to do what I'm trained for. It's really cut down on my Family Said time. My SO is on the Needle Fire now, so we don't get to talk very often. Cell coverage is sporadic at best. Got to talk to him this morning. It was nice to have his voice to wake up to, even if I didn't have his warm body next to me. I'm really starting get weary of this fire season, ready for it to be done. I think he is too. He sounded tired and just generally "over it". I think my workaholic might actually miss me! FM... The worm farm's a great idea! I think I have some nightcrawlers in the fridge leftover from fishing season I could send you to get it started. Anything to help out a friend. Have a great day everyone, Heli Mellie says she has her system down now, she says and will send notices out a day sooner. Ab.
9/17	Catskilldog, I think your Alice is just planning for the future when she's big enough to eat your cat. Cuddle up now, squish later... Another Montana Mom, I too appreciate the vision and heroism of the women like you who dared to push the limits and choose really different careers in the previous generation(s). I feel those women established the paths or the beginning of the paths. Once when I asked my mom and about it, she said it didn't seem like anything extraordinary. She was just living her life with permission to be creative and make her own choices and have the consequences of those choices. My dad supported that too and encouraged the girls to play sports and challenge themselves mentally the same as the boys. But the fact of choices having consequences for boys and for girls was always discussed and always guided my parents decisions of how to inform and treat us. There's one story told in my family that is about consequences. I wasn't around but it began one morning when my 3-yr old brother decided he wouldn't get dressed for preschool. It was a power with mom thing 'cause he was good at getting dressed before. Not about preschool, he loved that. That morning, story goes, mom finally made him get dressed with much tantrum... somehow got him to school which was 4 long blocks from home... on a very public street. He was happy once out the door. This happened a second morning with the same consequences. By the third, mom said she felt a long-term pattern coming on (something to be avoided at all costs when dealing with "bad" behavior)... so she thought of the possible options... what would the consequences be of him not getting dressed?... He'd go to school naked. She called the school to see if they'd freak out if she brought in a little naked boy and told them why. They said no problemo. Then she talked with my little brother (who is older than me) about why she liked wearing clothes and shoes, warm and cozy... in contrast to no clothes, cold and wet. It was a rainy day in the low 50degrees, definitely on the goosepimply side of comfortable. She didn't fight with him, just continued getting herself ready and then asked at the door if he was ready. He said yes and off they went, her with her light jacket and umbrella, him stark nekked with everything hanging out. Not a big deal, like everyday people have the choice to go to school without clothes. He lasted less than half a block before he was one big goosebump and decided wearing clothes was a good idea and he wanted his on. She agreed. Came home and he happily got dressed. It never came up again. (She did get razzed by those she worked with "what were you thinking????") Fire Momma once told someone in financial disagreement with their SO to get the finances in order and ask the SO to take over if there were complaints about money handling or if the SO didn't understand why there were money problems. Same idea. Let the other person have the experience with no blame. The consequences of putting your body through something often imparts a greater lesson than simply telling someone about it. Firefighters train by put their bodies through things over and over again, if my sister is any example. Training takes over in a pinch. Same with life. Start early. If it doesn't kill or maim them, let them try things out (being the responsible adults/educators, mom would say, know their developmental ability, talk with them about choices at an early age). Homeschooling, well that's a different set of experiences you can have with a kid ... in contrast to discussing with the kid the choices she/he makes within a public school setting. In my experience one is not better than the other. It just depends on whether you spend time creating a learning setting at home and work with them there or take time to work with your kids at school and at home about choices that come up at school. The two are not mutually exclusive, either, kids learn at home and at school and everywhere inbetween. All part of the creative process. Oh my, I have gone on... Thanks for your comments about careers, AMM, it got me started. Sammi the "private dance performance" for dad, nice one, another creative way of letting them have the experience they want. Robbie
9/17	Hey Taz-er-roo! I'll be in Austin at the end of October for a contractor conference. Still going to have roller derby goings on? My husband and I will actually just be flying back from the West Indies and will be staying there in Austin for the conference before coming home to drippy Oregon. FM
9/17	Good morning, everybody. Apologies for missing chat again…work schedule etc, mea culpa. I haven’t been at home between six thirty am and eleven pm for weeks now, so chat time is hard to come up with. Like catskilldog I’m working on my EMT, and my department is working on becoming a full transport ambulance, so that’s requiring big chunks of time…but we’re going to do it! And hopefully that’ll mean more funding, better communications, more equipment…and ambulance number 2 (hooray!). Catskilldog, if you haven’t seen it already, I highly recommend “Medicine for Mountaineering” by “The Mountaineers”. It’s an excellent, practical, in-depth yet down-to-earth book on back-country medicine by a bunch of Mountaineering MDs, produced by the same folks who did “Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills”. Good for fire fighters. I read it cover to cover…it’s that readable. And you can get to it through Ab’s Amazon link (blatant kiss up to Ab). FM; the garden theme sounds great…and every kid should have a worm farm. I’m all in favor of a dirt diet for small children…keeps them knowing where dinner comes from. You know, I’ve done politics on all sorts of levels, but I think the most vicious by far are elementary school PTAs or equivalent. One of my good friends is a PTA president, and those women are just blood thirsty. Especially when religion gets involved (no offense to the religious on the board). TazGirl; I’ve been thinking about what you said about your FF being happier with you in dispatch than on the line…it’s taken me a while to formulate my thoughts on the matter. My first reaction was “What a jerk!” but I think it’s more complex than that. Being on the line is hard, rough, dirty work, and as much as your FF may enjoy it, he may not like the idea of you doing it because he likes to think of you being somewhere nice while he’s down there in the dirt and ash. In a twisted sort of way, I guess that’s respect; he’s putting you up on a pedestal and maybe using the thought of you as a mental retreat. Just a thought. The other possible goes like this; he thinks you’re so incredibly gorgeous that you’d be hit on night and day by every male in fire camp, and he’s trying to save you the aggravation (smile). My two cents worth, Nerd on the Fireline
9/17	Hello ladies, Well I did not get to hear from my FF even once today, I really hate that...kinda sad, and heading off to bed with the kids. There is still at least one more mouse in the house. Hopefully the cats will get it. Went to the Dr today to get the stitches removed from where the Dr. removed a "suspicious mole", luckily for me no melanoma, but they did say it had "melanomic tendencies", and to watch the area. So if any of you are putting off having something similar removed, PLEASE do not wait! Also, remember to have a mammogram. I just had my 1st, and thank goodness it was fine. I think we get so busy in our lives taking care of everyone else, we forget that we need to be in good health to take care of them. So for me, please everyone check your skin, and lets all have a breast self exam day (for all the ladies). Dawn
9/16	Hello everyone, It's official. School is here. And I...(cringe...) have volunteered to be the school's yearbook chair. I'm thinking "How could we fit it Jackson Pollock into this project" and then...think...I d-o-n-'t think so...Maybe theme it after "The Garden Song." What do you think? I also suggested we work on constructing a greenhouse and a garden area for the kids to do educational horticulture lessons. A woman at the back of the room (who r-e-a-l-l-y doesn't like me...oh well...) said the school didn't need a greenhouse because there was one at the junior high. (Ab, you would have been soooo proud of me...) I smiled very diplomatically and said, "That's wonderful! If the kids are introduced to horticulture here at an early age, the greenhouse at the junior high will be used much more than it is now!" She scowled at me...and I added..."And we really should ALSO consider a composting program and a worm farm." Dawn, I really don't think you got on anyone's nerves during chat. But, I was thinking about your comment this afternoon. You hang out here because you must feel comfortable. I imagine you feel comfortable because this is a supportive place. Pretty much everyone has expressed that support. So, I don't think it matters one iota if some particular subject any one of use brings up doesn't agree with someone else in the group. We're hear to listen one another out, not draw judgment. Be comforted in that. Don't worry if your opinions or topics you bring up resonate with the group or not. Great if they do. It's equally ok if they don't. There'll be those times for all of us. It's the community of support that's important. We're here for ya babe! Wish you were here to be my Yearbook co-chair. I don't know if these people know what they've gotten themselves into. ; ) My husband comes home tomorrow. Maybe I'll bait the kitchen with another basket of fried chicken. ; / FM
9/16	Hello Everyone.... AMM... welcome to the group!! Glad you could make it. Dawn... I enjoyed the questions last night since I don't know anything about the programs either. You weren't getting on my nerves by any means. *smiles* Even after you left Mellie and I kept talking about it. FM and everyone else... Wish I could have been on to talk to you guys but I started walking last night so we didn't get home till after 7 and then I had to eat!! Next week we are going to walk earlier so I can be here. TazGirl... knowing you, you gave em' Hell !! And as long as you played good that is all that mattered. Wish you could have been there last night but I am sure the lake was a blast. Congrats on the wakeboard!! FireWife
9/16	whazzup all, well, i have been very busy lately. my FF lover (he's my husband, but we call eachother lover, it's cool) and i just made an offer on a house and it was accepted! we are in the process of doing all that needs to be done before we close! yea! i am so excited to have more space since we live in extremely crammed quarters now. we're moving about 10 miles north of where we currently live which is further for me from work but it's much nicer and cheaper there. taz girl, i'm glad to hear things are going well and that you will be spending a bunch of time with your FF man very soon! that's awesome! sorry to hear about your recent roller derby loss. i'm sure it was fun! i hope you are keeping up with your workout routine. sorry i haven't been around too much. i've been working out regularly and getting better at my runs. i'm excited about reaching my goals! sure do miss the beer, though. so where are you guys going to vacation? i know a neat place that is extremely laid back and beautiful if you're interested. when i met my lover, we were long distance (2000 miles), too, and we had only spent maybe 10 days together, but, of course, endless nights on the phone when i asked him to go camping with me (i finally found the right one to go with) for two weeks in the virgin islands and it was a great trip! we really bonded and saw a certain side of eachother that we may not have seen otherwise (the sand is nice a soft there! hee) others, i have a snake, alice. she's a ball python and she's really pretty and long. she eats regularly and is a night owl. her and my cat can hang out together believe it or not. i have a photo for evidence if you want to see. i don't know if i'll be around too much for the next 9 months. i have been enrolled in the FF/EMT program at a local college since last winter, but didn't take any classes for the summer. I will, however, be enrolling in the EMT program starting in october and will be in training two nights per week plus some saturdays for 9 months. i will be checking in now and then to see what's going on with everyone and update you all on the status of my cool motorcycle being built by my handsome FF lover! hee hee i hope you and all of your FF loved ones are having fun and staying safe! over and out..... catskilldog
9/16	TazGirl, Enjoyed your post. I'm sorry about your team's defeat. But you know what, what really matters is that you played and you played well and especially that you have so much family that is supportive and cares about you. I'm sure you make your family proud. I hope all goes well with your FF. I really do. Ahh, to be young and in love. Enjoy. AMM
9/16	Good morning everyone. Welcome AMM. We are glad to have you. I am so disappointed. I got the e-mail that chat was going on and I thought that e-mail came in this morning. So I was all excited about tonight. But no, it was yesterday and I missed chat yesterday. I'm sure you ladies had a great time w/o me. Sorry I missed it. Oh well though. Was everyone there? Nerd this time and Sammi? I was out on the lake yesterday from 5:30 until almost 1 am!!! It was so fun. My friend from Colorado just moved here and he has a ski boat. My brother and I are pretty happy about that. I jumped the wake yesterday on the wakeboard and landed it for the first time. I am very sore today though. My roller derby team lost on Sunday. Yep. It was pretty crushing. I didn't take it very well. Since it was the semi-finals it was real decisive game for us...and we lost. I was just really mad because the reffing is not up to par with our playing abilities and it is extremely frustrating. Our team was getting penalties all over the place and our opponents, who were committing just as many fouls, barely got any. Anyway, my 82-yr old grandma came and watched too so that was pretty neat. I played my best and I played well so I'm walking away from it with that. I will send a pictures link to Ab as soon as they are posted. My FF just came back from Maine. So now he is back to work. A couple of his crew stayed back in SLC to meet him and head out to a fire in Northern Cali. I don't think they will be out much longer. Either this will be their last tour or this 2 week one and then another half. SOON, VERY SOON....he will be coming to Texas. Can't wait. He is going to stay here with me until we leave to go travel in December. Looks like we will be able to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas together. Christmas in the islands...in a little hut on the beach....mmmm. We are still talking about plans for next summer and if he is going to switch crews or what. But we will have to see how this winter goes and see how the relationship progresses. We are very much in love, but we are also very different. This winter will be the time to tell how those differences play out and if we are compatible on a day to day basis. Bye for now. I'm gonna go down the street and get me some $1 breakfast tacos. Yum. And I'll be online ALL day for anyone that wants to chat. TazGirl
9/16	Just put up a post on theysaid about the Apprenticeship Program. See, people do read familysaid. That was quick. Ab.
9/16	Abs, I'm not knowledgeable about the apprenticeship program but I happen to have a link (I think it's what you're talking about). www.wfap.net/ I found the link this summer when I was trying to gather information for a recent high school graduate who thought he'd like to fight fires. I don't think he pursued it. But for what it's worth, here's the link. Another Montana Mom Thanks. Ab.
9/16	Sammi: What kind of fish did you have again? I have a lizard who has a little house he hardly ever comes out of at all. The fact that I’ve had him for more than ten years and he’s still fat and sassy indicates to me that that’s normal, although probably totally inapplicable to fish. Ab: If you’re going to pick on me, at least get my tool order right! I’m First Scrape, for Pete’s Sake…it’s much easier to type with a rhino than a Pulaski. The spike end of a combi is best, though. There, a message with no carriage returns whatsoever. Nerd on the Fireline (laughing thick-skinnedly) haw haw. Ab.
9/16	Sorry Ab's, here is my new condensed message form, I hope it passes all Inspections. The Garden Song that was posted is on a children CD that I own sung by an artist named Charolet Diamond, and she sings it in the most beautiful voice. For those of you with small children, she has WONDERFUL cd's. Chat was nice tonight, although I got the impression that I got on everyones nerves with my new firewife questions. Sorry about that. DH is still on the Grindstone fire, it is so hard on my girls at night, my little one did not want to go to sleep tonight, she wanted to wait up for daddy. I told her he was sleeping, kind of camping down where the fire was. "Will he be home tomorrow?" she asks...it is so hard to tell her that No he won't be home for a while. Oh well, I will try not to whine too much. Dawn PS. Ab's is that condensed enough? I had to stretch that one out. By the way, DH stands for "Dear Husband" I've been told. I like that acronym. Mellie said you didn't get on nerves with your questions about the Apprenticeship Academy, at least not hers. All newcomers to fire who want to make it a career should be planning ahead, setting educational goals and making the most of opportunities like the Academy. Maybe someone reading here who is knowledgeable about the program could write in with more details, links, etc. Applications are still open. The basic educational requirements in wildland fire are changing. Fighting fire is a complex scenario these days requiring critical thinking, knowledge of technology, knowledge of people, etc. SOs play a role in helping make career advancement decisions. The hardest transition into the new requirements will be for those already in positions of responsibility (GS 9+) to document past training, translate it into college credit (or verify college credit) and fill in the educational gaps. Education and documentation is worthwhile doing whether the firefighter is in his or her 40s, 30s or 20s. Younger people must plan and achieve educational goals if they want to advance. Ab.
9/16	Abs and all, thanks so much for the welcome. Wow, I hope I did lay some groundwork or maybe I just got caught up in the groundswell. Either way, you younger girls are kicking butt and I'm enjoying it!! Sammi, I "don't know 'nothin" about fish. Now, breastfeeding and temper trantums I might could help with. My best to you all. AMM (Another Montana Mom)
9/15	Welcome Montana Mom....glad you came to play. If you have been joining us quietly you know we cover all aspects of life not just Fire even tho we have a huge investment in that also. So don't be shy, can't be if you are here. And to the oldie people on the list: wow we have done it all. We have discussed fire, marital and other relations, children and temper tantrums, homeschooling, breastfeeding (Abs close your eyes) roller derbying, practical jokes, jobs dispatching and physical fitness, and how to not kill our FF the first two days they are home. And now We get a grammar/computer lesson. PLEAZZZZZZE !!! Abs, we have very important things to discuss here and you are bothering us with petty details. Ok, we need to discuss fish....my fishes are hiding in their sea shells. Is that normal? sammi (who is terrified now to type anything for fear my keyboard will explode) (smiley face) we need to be able to do little pictures
9/15	Montana Mom, Welcome! I'm sure I can extend a welcome from everyone here. Just got back from the coast late last night with BQ (aka Bionicle Queen). We went to listen to music in Pistol River. I have to admit I didn't really even know the musician...that is until he opened his mouth...and then I thought..."Oh, yea. So that's who you are!" David Mallet...he sings one of our favorites - The Garden Song. This song goes perfectly with the tantrum flower game... Garden Song by David Mallett CHORUS: Inch by inch, row by row Gonna make this garden grow All I need is a rake and a hoe And a piece of fertile ground Inch by inch, row by row Someone bless these seeds I sow Someone warm them from below 'Till the rain comes tumbling down Pullin' weeds and pickin' stones We are made of dreams and bones Need a place to call my own 'Cause the time is close at hand Grain for grain, sun and rain Find my way in nature's chain Till my body and my brain Tell the music of the land Plant your rows straight and long Season them with a prayer and song Mother Earth will make you strong If you give her loving care Old crow watching from a tree He's got his hungry eye on me In my garden I'm as free As that feathered thief up there Ciao, FM
9/15	Welcome to Family Said, AMM! We’d love to get your perspectives on things, and we’re glad you joined us. When you compliment us girls on going out and doing our own thing…well, it’s women like you who laid the groundwork and made it possible for us go out and do the “unladylike” things. I worked in South America for a while; I do appreciate how far we’ve come in the US. The idea that “Firefighter” and “feminine” are not mutually exclusive…well, that’s a tough one. Nice to have you, Nerd on the Fireline P.S. We greatly admire Sammi too. Hey, Posters, including Nerd and Dawn, a request from the Abs: Could/would you please watch how many lines you skip (times you hit the carriage return) between parts of your message? The more extra skipped lines, the more "editing" we need to do to minimize posting space and the more mistakes we can make in reading, copying, and posting. I left Nerd's post above unedited to illustrate. (Plus I know from past interactions that she won't take my request personally. She's particularly thick skinned if you haven't noticed. (Good ff trait.)) Another posting "mistake" this morning resulted from extra carriage returns in Dawn's message. We cut and pasted all we could see on our screen and the message got posted as coming from C~ cause that's all that showed up on the screen because of the blank lines before the message to C began. Dawn alerted us and we corrected the mistake. (C~ may know didly about homeschooling and the Waldorf Method. How confusing!) If you haven't read the corrected version from Dawn, scroll down. With as busy as we are, cutting and pasting-as-is works best for us. Sometimes when things come in, we're on the way out the door and we don't notice how much further down a message goes if there's more than one line skipped. Everyone, you can REALLY help by lightening up on your carriage returns, and that includes after you sign your moniker. Nerd! You don't have Pulaski in hand, it's just a keyboard. :-0      ;-) Ab.
9/15	OK, on invitation of sammi, who I don't know but greatly admire, I'm coming in out of the shadows. I've been a "lurker" here on TheySaid for the past 3 summers. I have a 21-year old son who is in college and who has fought fires the past 3 summers with a private contractor out of Oregon. Partly out of not wanting to infringe on my son's privacy (my kids hate it when I talk about them), I have not joined they Family Said discussions, yet. Actually, the first summer, I just wasn't sure that he would continue with the fire business, I didn't discover TheySaid right away, and I wasn't sure that a kid with a private contractor was considered a "real" FF. Then, the second summer, it seemed that most of the posters to They Said were with fire fighting agencies and I didn't feel I had a lot to contribute. Then this summer, well, I guess I'm just kind of shy and the longer I didn't join in, the more I felt kind awkward about it. So, thanks, Sammi for the invite. I have been blown away by the discussions on FamilySaid this summer. What an incredible support group. And what a wealth of experience and knowledge to be shared. And shared so willingly and honestly. As a mom, I don't have the same anxieties and concerns about personal relationships that many of the posters do. And, at 52 (married 33 years), I'm kind of beyond that. But I want all of you to know that I find Fire Momma's and Sammi's advice to be very valuable. And I'm so thrilled to hear from the younger girls (I mean "girls" in a good way) like TazGirl, Fire Chica, Nerd, and CatskillDog. Way back, when I was their age, the main careers for girls were teacher or nurse or housewife/mom. I think it's wonderful that girls on are the fireline and running businesses like Fire Momma. Actually, despite the handicap of growing up in the 50's, I did manage to become a lawyer and am enjoying watching my son and daughter grow up and compete in a different world. So, enough already. You guys are really great. Keep up the great dialogue. I love the critter stories. Another Montana Mom Welcome Montana Mom. Ab.
9/15	another mom; awesome pictures and the story is perfect example of people helping people with no expectation of more than "thanks". It happens all the time (and not just fire) and we never hear about it. Thx for the article.... come on over to family said and join us. We are not just about fire anymore, seems we wander around to whatever needs to be discussed at the time. Awesome support group for those of us left at home. please join us, sammi
9/15	Another Montana Mom has a nice post on theysaid. Ab.
9/15	Homeschoolers....look on the net for info. Or you can go to a fairly large city and they have school supply learning centers. I finally found a huge 3 inch thick workbook, I can find the name if interested that has everything every grade should be learning. As far as not getting the alphabet or slow to read etc. My theory is they just are not ready to do that yet, whatever it may be, and wait a while and try again. Like potty training. If you have a hastings or Borders Books go look at all the choices they have. Honestly my kids learned more by doing than doing workbooks etc. Like baking cookies. They read, do weights, measurements, and follow directions. Then if older they can write a report in their journal. Lots more relaxed, and they do learn. And on top of that the little ones learn by watching the others. sammi
9/15	FireWife~ I have TONS of homeschooling info, if you want to drop me an email, I would be happy to point you in the right direction. It just really depends on your ideas, and beliefs. We personally choose to somewhat follow a "waldorf" method of education which states that children learn by playing and imitating you. And the alphabet is not even introduced until kindergarten. We started "K" at 4 1/2, and it took until just now ( a whole year) for my older DD to know her alphabet. I am very relaxed, and figure she will learn it at her own pace. We tend to add in more academics than a typical "waldorf" curriculum, but it is what my older DD needs and thrives with. You really just learn what works as you go along. She just mastered writing her whole name without asking what letter came next, which is pretty good considering her name has 9 letters! We kind of do a little of this, a little of that, and then fill in what even we might have left out. She is very intelligent, and very verbal, so learning with her is always an adventure. My 3 year old can count to like 14-15, and knows a couple of letters, especially that her name starts with an "H", and she can write an "H" very well. C~ I heard from DH once, but am not really sure where he is in the Mendocino area. Just that he is down there. I asked him to give us a call as often as he can, and he usually calls once a day or so. Sammi~ T he girls did get to talk to him when he called this morning, and he told our older DD that as soon as he was back he would go to one of her classes with her, it seemed to perk her up. She had a hard time going to sleep tonight, having a sudden fear of me dying. She was asking if my mom (her grandma) was always old, and would I be an old grandma soon? Weird...sometimes that child's brain works too hard. She has a very old soul, and is wise beyond her years. Good night all, Dawn
9/14	TazGirl-the paragraph about your mother's visit could have been written by me. I love her so much. The woman has given me so much. But there are times she can drive me ab-so-lut-ly bananas! :). It has gotten better recently. But I know what you are going through. All you home schoolers-I wish I lived near you. Although we send our daughter to public school I have found the home schoolers have the same value system as we do. A year ago August we yanked the antenna to our TV and now the only TV anyone in the house get is video or DVD. No commercials and no trash. We miss our sports and news...but right now the benefit far out weights our loss of entertainment (so called). Anyway --home schoolers gave us the courage to do this. I haven't met any home schoolers in our new area yet--maybe I should just pop into a Le Leche League meeting some night around here. Anyway you-all sound like people I'd want to hang with. I think my FF wants to move back west. So who knows. Just had a FF spouse and family over for dinner. Her FF is out and she was so glad to have an adult to be with. The kids all got a kick out of one another too. It was nice for them to know that other Daddies go away for long periods too. Well blessings all. My mother in law reported Kallispell MT was pretty free of smoke, maybe your fire fighters will be coming home soon. Hoosier
9/14	Sammi & Dawn..... Thank you both for all of your support on homeschooling. I would love to do it. I am having trouble getting mine to learn the alphabet. She knows alot of it but just not in the right order!! She can count to 11 and loves to be read to, especially mommy and daddy books. So she hears history all the time since that is what my husband reads. How did you guys get info on books, etc?? FireWife
9/14	Dawn, My husband is in the Mendocino also. He has been there about a week now. I talked to him this morning about 8 am and they could see the plume from the Deafy fire. Sounds like it took off yesterday and must be going good today to have a plume so early in the morning. I have been enjoying everyone's animal stories. When wild animals get into my house it is with the help of my cats. One night I woke up because the cat was pouncing around on my feet. I turned the light on to see what was going on and she was playing with her latest catch, a snake! One of them likes to bring live bats into the house and release them to fly around. (yes the cat's have rabies shots and there isn't a rabies problem with the bat population here) I don't know what I would do if she did it when my husband wasn't here to catch them. She caught a few right before my husband left on a fire and I spent the next day sitting by the cat door ready to lock her out if she tried to come in with anything. -C Scott Vail's Team is on that one, originally a collection of 39 small lightning fires and the few big ones. The Deafy Fire is the most active. Here's the Incident page and the photos for family and friends page with maps and photos of firecamp and the Grindstone Cowboy (Scott Brockman from the Mendo NF). The map of all the little fires is interesting. Check out the photos of the Deafy Fire Wind Event yesterday, link on Families and Friends photo page. Ab.
9/14	Dawn, help her plan a private dance show for dad at home and have refreshments. Let her choose what to have etc....make it a surprise dance party for dad. ( I love doing tea parties for the little girls, dress up and act so Victorian) Firewife- Dawn is right. Who better to teach the kids than you......and we will substitute when needed. I really do miss it. Even tho there were times if my husband had not been supportive I would have quit, for about 5 minutes. But that is when you go down to the lake and have a science project seeing how far rocks will fly. Most importantly don't try to tie your self down to a schedule, that nearly did me in in the beginning. And yes homeschooled kids can get scholarships and go to college. Two of mine did. The kid that is now the FF-haz mat guy never read a complete book until he was probably 14. Then he needed to fix his motorcycle so dad bought him one of those 'How to fix your Honda " books and he read the whole thing from cover to cover. He just needed something he was interested in. After that he knew he could read for himself and it could be fun. Not just having mom and dad read all the time. kids are great-we just need to relax and they will lead us. sammi
9/14	Sammi~we actually decided not to do the 100000000 piece dino, since they are only 3 and 5! But we do like digging out the dino, although you are right, there is plaster everywhere!!! FireWife~ You CAN homeschool. It is amazing what you learn as parents as you learn with your children, and yes, there is always someone to help teach those difficult subjects. And it does not have to be "school at home" , we follow the thought that we learn from our everyday living and from our world and community. Think of who your children are right now, they have learned how to be who they are from you. You have taught them everything they know, and you are capable of continuing if it is something you desire. So does anyone know of the fires in Medocino? My DH left early this am for some fire in Mendocino National Forest. So anyone elses FF there? I am really disappointed, we had told the girls that after today, daddy would have 3 days off, and my oldest was so excited that daddy would be at her 1st dance lesson. I know, I know, it is all part of the deal, but it still sucks sometimes! Dawn
9/14	Hey Dawn,,,we did one of those dig the dinosaur out of the putty projects. I was picking up little pieces of fake dinosaur mud for weeks. Then we did the- put the 100000000 piece balsa wood dino together. I think we ended up making a dino airplane. The project that had me nervous was when at about age 13 he decided to build a laser. We went to the library and the librarian who had been there since he was a baby (our little town has one gas station, a mini mart and 4 bars so everyone knows everyone) She knew us very well, said "well if anyone can do it Joey will" ,at that point I was a tad bit apprehensive. But he spent a few days reading and drawing plans then decided to learn how to make keys for padlocks or something like that. Firewife: you can homeschool. You only need to love the kids and want to keep them safe and happy. The rest is really easy. Even tho I will admit there were many spur of the moment field trips because they would not have survived the day if we had stayed home. Depending on the state you live in most states are now very homeschool friendly. Not like when I started. Lots of books, support groups, mothers support groups etc. And you certainly don't need a degree or even a huge amount of gray matter. This kid (despite a learning disability) has excelled in all his fire classes. He is structure and wildland, EMT advanced and has his haz mat tech and is on the region haz mat team. It took him a while to figure out what he wanted to be when he grew up but once he got interested in fire it was clear sailing. (honestly all I did was sort of guide him thru life) and drive to the library. My theory always was if I don't know how to teach them something I can find someone who does...(happened a few times) and my main goal during their school years, even if they never learned anything, was to keep them safe and avoid as much peer pressure as we could. We had two successes and one that pushed the envelope but after a few rebellions finally did see the light---met a wonderful gal that just straightened him right out. And don't let anyone discourage you because of the kids needing "socialization" if they are homeschooled you pick their friends and wouldn't want them to do the socially acceptable thing now anyway. ok off the soapbox and off to fold towels. How can one person and two fish make such a huge mess, and I am never home. those messy fish.......sammi
9/14	Hola amigas buenas. Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend. You know, it used to be that Family Said was a week thing while I was at work and I would just go w/o from Friday night to Monday morning. But no more. I find myself checking in daily even on weekends. There's just too much good stuff here. I love the little tid bits that come out bit by bit about everyone. Learning about each and everyone of you one interesting crumb at a time. Aly, Thanks so much for all of your dispatcher info. That is extremely helpful. I suppose my next step will be figuring out how to get the training. The are offering some here in Texas this October actually, but I don't think I can get off work. I'm working on it. I need to get that instruction before applying any where. My mom is visiting this weekend. Actually, she just came in this afternoon. What is it about a mother's visit that can be kind of draining? I mean, I love the woman to tears but she can really drive me bonkers. And then I feel bad, like I am taking her for granted. But man, we are just so very different. Anyway...my brother, mom and I and three other friends all went to have some dinner tonight and enjoyed the outdoor weather and the gorgeous moon. The heat is beginning to subside here and it is so wonderful and such a relief. Whew... and it was still 85 today, but there was an actual breeze and it felt more like 75. After a nice dinner and some wine, we all came back to my house and had some of mom's homemade brownies and ice cream. Yum...caramel brownies, with a special batch for me w/ no pecans. Got to talk to my FF tonight for quite a while. He is still in Maine right now w/ family. I don't think he's ever been as sweet to me over the phone as he was tonight. It is so nice to talk to him when he is more relaxed and not so exhausted. His mom delivered the package I sent and he was happy about that. And he got to show his family the pictures I sent to him, most of them derby pics. He has played golf three times in two days, with more scheduled for tomorrow. The long summer is almost over for us and I can't begin to tell you how relieved I am about that. We still have a lot of plans to hash out, but the LONG separation is almost over. (And I promise to still write after he is here ...;) We're looking at about another month. Thank heavens I will be really busy, so hopefully time flies. Three day music fest, b'day weekend, championship derby game should all keep me busy these next few weeks. But it would be a LOT harder if it weren't for you guys... Roller derby is tomorrow ladies!!!! Semi-finals!!!! Hell Marys v. Hotrod Honeys. I'm just not gonna even think about being nervous. I'm just gonna kick some serious roller derby A*&!! I will write more Monday about our victory. I know all of you will sincerely be pulling for me. Hope to have a chat soon. And if I haven't already said it, your stories are hilarious!!! I feel like I have such a good understanding of a meltdown now. Glad I asked. Maybe this board and you all will still be around when I have kiddies, because w/ all of this experience, I sure could learn a lot. Take care everyone... and your demon spawn, TazGirl
9/13	Sammi & Dawn... you two are making me jealous. I want to homeschool our kids but I wasn't a very good student so I don't believe I can teach our kids. My husband is a walking history book so he would have to do that section. *smiles* It was too cute this morning my daughter asked her daddy if he wanted to stay home with her today!! He had to explain that daddy had to go to work to make money. Oh but how he would have loved to stay home in bed cuddling with his girls and watching football. Hope everyone has a good weekend... FireWife
9/13	FF's Dad, if you got in touch with Abby and tried to e-mail me privately, please try again. My e-mail service was down most of last week but thankfully, it is working again. sammi
9/13	Tazgirl -- I keep meaning to post, but constant distractions lately -- anyways. Previously I was on an engine crew, but now I'm in dispatch. Some info -- let me know if you want more, I'm not sure if you want to know really specific things, but I can go into agonizing detail over everything from daily duties, different desk assignments and of course, ROSS. Dispatching is actually a pretty broad field -- the different positions are EDRC (dispatch recorder), EDSD (support dispatcher), EDSP (supervisory dispatcher), IADP (initial attack dispatcher) and then a RADO (radio op) and an ABRO (aviation base radio op). I think that pretty much covers the different positions in comm tech. An IADP can specialize in aviation, Intel, or just fire, also. Typically those new to dispatch start out with their EDRC task book and the D-110 class. IADP (the most fun part of dispatching) usually comes next, depending on what you want to do. NOTE: to be a dispatcher, due to new regulations, fire experience is strongly encouraged -- if you do not have fire experience, you will need a Fire Dispatcher task book, which requires you to attend basic firefighter training, visit the fireline, attend crew briefings, etc... Dispatch positions are usually flown at the same time as firefighting positions -- with seasonal positions open all over the west (and elsewhere). Of course, Alaska's season is in mid- to late-spring, then the Southwest starts burning and it gradually works it way north, and just when all that seems over the south and east will start burning as well. Therefore, dispatcher jobs are open all over the country for long amounts of time. As is my situation, I'll get laid off and then start getting sent out as an AD -- hopefully keeping me employed until I go back for my masters next fall. Looking at your questions to FireChica -- I work for the BLM, based out of Montana. I travel a lot, that's all I've done this year. My office was a little overcrowded, so I've been on dispatch details all season. The job is fun. Very extreme ... either mind-numbingly slow or mind-bogglingly (SP?) fast. You have to have a thick skin and a cool head -- and be pretty laid back. A high strung dispatcher can be a pain (no offense to anyone). I think that's all I can think of -- Ab has my email address if you want to ask me more specifics or keep it to the board or whatever. That goes for everyone -- I love this job, and I strive to better understanding of what exactly I do -- trust me, I do not sit back and pick my nose all day. (Cue preachy music.) Note to all - you are hilarious! The tantrum stories and critter tales have kept me and my fellow dispatchers in stitches -- and before anyone jumps on me for reading on government time, it's a Saturday and it's been raining for two days – after a long season I think we’re entitled to a little fun. I hope everyone’s SO (including my own) comes home soon – after making a ton of money all summer, of course. --aly
9/13	You girls are AWESOME! I am so sorry that I missed the chat, it helps to know that other mothers do breastfeed toddlers as well. I actually am a breastfeeding educator and La Leche League leader, but I still rarely see mothers who breastfeed as long as I did. I miss convenience of the "booby band-aid", as we called it. Things get better here every day as far as the tantrums go, it is just not something I am used to. DH was actually home at a decent hour last night, and did not leave till 8 this morning so my youngest got some great "daddy time" this morning. And then the goof ball forgot his lunch and we were all in a mad dash to get to him at the Ranger station before they got in their engine to head out to their neck of the woods, thank goodness we made it in time to save the day and make sure he did not go hungry! It took me a good 20 minutes to go up and over the mountain to where he meets his crew, I flew past 3 sheriff hoping not to get pulled over! We also follow a "child led" homeschooling life! We have some "curriculums", like Oak meadow, and Saxon Math, but we really just pick and choose what sounds good that day. I plan out a year in advance, with the girls help, on what they would like to learn about that school year, and we add in the other stuff, like math, language arts, and such. Right now we are in the middle of Dinosaur month, where we are excavating a "Dinosaur fossil" out of a giant block of plaster, it is really COOL! Along with dinosaurs naturally comes volcanoes, and what a better place to live than No. Ca. with Beautiful Mount Shasta in our view! We are hoping to get up to Lava Beds sometime later this month too. So, where is the best place to order him an extra pair of green nomex pants? The Forest service in not on the ball, and I am tired of washing the same pair of pants daily! When is the next chat? Dawn
9/13	(world-weary sigh from probably the junior member of the board) Ladies, you embark on reproductive activities with Fire Fighters, and then are surprised when you get demon spawn. I'm disappointed in you all (laughing). My parents were great believers in the value of absurdity when raising me...no toddler likes to believe that he/she/it (I think I was an it) is not being taken seriously. Whenever I threw a tantrum (and they claim I only threw one) they'd go get a couple of newspapers, hide behind them, and whisper and laugh...I'd shut up to hear what they were saying. They also said that being mocked and ignored made me embarrassed enough that I never did it again. On the other hand, i didn't sleep through the night for the first two and a half years, and they never considered having a second child, so I guess I wasn't a perfect little angel. Nerd on the Fireline
9/12	Well, my so's fire is winding down so he called tonight and will be home by Tues. That is a good thing because I need firewood brought up. My little red wagon has to make three trips to get me thru a day and night. and with the chilly nights I want warmth. Breastfeeding: do whatever you need to for yourself and the little one. Just ignore any busybody that says anything or gives "the look". they are probably jealous. Home schooling, we have a lot in common. We (I) home schooled the youngest three....it was an awesome experience and I wish I had known about it for the others. Especially the boys, with their short attention spans and the need to be moving around and exploring, their young lives would have been much more enjoyable for all of us. But we survived both public and home schooling. I did not use a curriculum. We did the "child led learning" whatever they were interested in is what we learned about. Of course with math, reading and writing included. MY youngest learned fraction, weights and metric in the bathtub. I kept all sorts of plastic measuring cups, measuring spoons, turkey basters with measurements on them, little scales, any thing with measurements. And he would spend forever in the tub playing in the water with all the measuring stuff. Then he wanted to do pulleys and weights. So I bought all sorts of little pulleys and wire etc. Dad and he strung that wire with the pulleys from the beam logs all over the house and for months I was dodging Tonka trucks and baskets full of rocks, matchbox cars filled with pennies, etc that were being pulled around the ceilings with all those pulleys etc. One day I was outside doing something and I heard a noise on the roof and he had climbed out his upstairs window and was rigging up an antenna to get better reception on his radio. He was a little older then, probably 12 or 13. If you want a learning experience, figure out the measurements of Noah's Ark and go outside and mark off the dimensions so you can really see how big it was.....I really learned a lot from home schooling. Sammi
9/12	Hello all! I have been a bit quiet because my FF has come home to visit for a few days! WHoo HOO! And I have a few animal stories stashed away, too. Pet wise, I have guppies and a parakeet, "Pip Squeek" Poet
9/12	OK Ladies and Gentlemen, you had me in a stick again. The animal stories and stories about children having tantrums are too funny. I am so glad there is a place for us to come when our FF is away and we need someone to talk too. Dawn....like I said in chat the other night with regards to nursing a toddler...."Ain't Momma happy...ain't nobody happy." You do what is best for you --not any one else. I wasn't happy with all night feedings when mine turned 2 1/2 (ave. age around the world for weaning) and cut her off. It just took three nights and she didn't ask any more. Now she still wakes frequently in the middle of the night. She is 6. We have gone from crawling in bed with mom and dad to her finding her way into a sleeping bag on the floor in the middle of the night. NO MORE crawling in with mom and dad. Mom and Dad where not happy anymore! In about 6 mon. I'll be ready to say STAY IN YOUR OWN BED DO NOT COME TO OUR ROOM. Long story for a small point. Everyone. I hope some of your fire fighters are home. Mine is but he's working on our other house so we can get it sold! More separation...this is getting old....You all keep me strong. Blessing, have a good night. Hoosier
9/12	Good Afternoon Ladies!! Dawn.. No flames from here. Kudos to you for BF... We talked about this the other night on the chat. You are not the only one on here who was nursing a toddler. Don't let anyone tell you that you should only do it till the are a certain age. You do it till whenever. My 3 yr old still had a pacifier at bed time, well that is now gone as off Tuesday night. We did it cold turkey to, but she slept with her rescue helicopter instead. Now at night when she asks for one I tell her they are all gone but to get a toy or something to sleep with. And oh my the animal stories!! Where I used to work in MT, I worked with pain in the ass teens. Anyway it was in the mountains so we had the occasional mountain lion or cougar that would come into the area looking for whatever. Well the girls in my family would freak out about them. So at night even if one had not really been spotted, I would tell them that one had just for fun. And on the way back to our dorms we would be walking and I would be calling... Here Kitty Kitty Kitty... Needless to say the kids would freak out!! I loved it. And most of these kids were rich little city kids so they weren't used to the animals. Well one night I was driving a van back from the lake with about 8 girls in it and I hit a deer. Well they freaked, one was in tears over it. They wanted me to go back and make sure it was dead. I explained that we can't do that since if it isn't it can be very dangerous to me. So I told them that if I went back who was gonna get out and make sure it was dead?? Of course no takers on that. And if it wasn't who was gonna finish it off so it didn't have to suffer. HAHAHA I was mean. This is the only critter story I had!! FireWife
9/12	Tantrum children.... --> (scene: kicking and screaming on the front room floor) Calmly go to the linen closet and take out a twin-size sheet (either flat or fitted, doesn't matter) Hold the sheet at about the 5 foot level and ceremoniously chant as you flip the sheet out and let it settle on little tantrum-er ... or tantrum-ess. Have a spray bottle of water at hand. When the sheet settles over the little varmit, start spraying the sheet like it was a garden of flowers and start singing...any familiar song will do...something they're used to...Amazing Grace...whatever. They will emerge a bit confused. You should next blink sweetly...and say..."Ah, my first flower has bloomed!" Two different things will happen...they'll be amused and will listen attentively as you read them a bedtime story..or they re-melt, at which time you just start over. Splash them with jello...wipe jelly on their elbow...ANYTHING to unsettle them out of their tack. YOU ARE THE QUEEN! Act like it! Okay, so I'll share with you all... Yesterday was kind of a difficult day for me. In addition to my work in the fire realm, I am also a farmer. I grow flowers. I am a member of an agricultural cooperative. Our cooperative has a CSA. A "CSA" stands for "Community Supported Agriculture." What that means is that at the first of each growing season, we offer "shares" of the agriculture products we grow. Our customers pay a set season price for their "share." Each week, we deliver a box of whatever is in season. We have a regular CSA program and we also have a Senior CSA program that we were commissioned to operate through the state agricultural department. I am one of the three people who volunteer to supply our seniors with their CSA produce (all of our growers grow it, I just help deliver it...). Okay, now you have the background, and you know what a CSA is. Yesterday was the regular senior CSA day. On that day, seniors come to my house to pick up their food. These people, for the most part, are very tired, and very thankful. I just want to take them in my arms and kiss them on the forehead. But, you know, that generally freaks people out if they don't know you very well. So, I give them their fruits and vegetables and I lure them into conversation...and I encourage them to eat, eat, eat their fresh fruits and vegetables because I think it will make them feel better and think better. And I realized yesterday, they probably wait all week just to come to pick up their fruits and vegetables to be able to talk to somebody. So, I take them into my flower field. I give them fresh eggs. I try to figure out what's important to them and get them to talk about it. If you get a chance, any chance, if there are senior folks around you...just find a reason to talk to them. Help them feel their presence here matters to someone. Okay...I'll stop. I'm just a bit sad today. I want to grow old gracefully. That's easier sad than done. I can't find it right now, but there is a wonderful book/poem entitled: "When I am an old woman..." ...When I am an old woman, I shall wear purple, and learn to spit...and say we have no money for butter. I should go find it now... FM
9/12	Critters: So back when I was still living at home, my mother, who is not as well versed in country life as she thinks she is, decided that the raccoons were digging up her lawn in search of grubs. So she got a Have-a-Heart trap, baited it with cat food, and waited. First, she got a couple of cats. Then, on about morning three, she got the most gorgeous bushy-tailed wiggly-nosed skunk you ever did see. The thing must have weighted twenty pounds…glossy, fat and really, really pissed off. The problem is getting the skunk transported elsewhere and then released from the trap…Have-a-Hearts great but you have turn them upside down to open them, and that’s tough to do with a really long stick. So Mom goes down to the local Rent-a-Wreck and gets this pickup truck. The she walks up to the trap holding up a sheet of clear plastic in front of her, wraps the critter up in the plastic, and, feeling rather proud of herself, drives out on a back road and goes to get the thing released. In the process of releasing the skunk, however, the trap falls out of the plastic and the skunk scores a direct hit to Mom’s face, which temporarily blinds her. So here’s Mom, standing on this back road in the middle of nowhere, blind and pissed off. She starts crying, which fixes the problem pretty well. Okay, crisis over, right? Nope. She goes to take the truck back to the Rent-a-Wreck place and the guy says “Hey, did you run over a skunk? Sure does smell like it.” I think the final score of the Great Trapping Fiasco was four skunks (or one skunk four times, which was my theory), one raccoon, and six cats. Finally she got tired of the project, put the trap away, and wired the whole garden with electrical fencing. Which really made the neighbor’s dog mad…he went to lift his leg on an ornamental shrub, and well… Nerd on the Fireline
9/12	Okay, Sammi...I have 2 cats!!! and one of them did catch the little sucker, but then dropped it in my daughters Barbie case, so that he could play with it before eating it. Brings new meaning with "Don't play with your food" 3 year old meltdown: She is standing naked at like 7pm, after stripping of her jammies, and wants to put on a "dress-up" dress and go outside and ride her bike in 50 degree weather. I told her no, it was time to get ready for bed, I had to pick up her limp and screaming body and put her on the toilet, and then fight her jammies on while she is screaming in a voice I have never heard "No, I don't wanna wear my jammies" It was demon spawn all the way. Just a little back ground...she has NEVER has tantrums, but last month she went to grandmas for 2 weeks for the first time, and while there she weaned herself from breastfeeding. So now we are learning to cope without breastfeeding for comfort. I KNOW.. WAY TOO MUCH INFO. Please no "flames" on my extended breastfeeding. Anyway, add this to the fact that this daughter is "daddy's girl", and when he is gone like this, she is a wreck. My older daughter doesn't seem to mind too much, she understands more why he is gone. As for that squirrel story, I WOULD DIE! I WOULD MOVE OUT until someone got that damn squirrel out of my home! So that is my pathetic saga, add that to the daily crap around here, and homeschooling, and I am a WRECK!! Yes that is complaining that you hear :) Dawn
9/11	I was reading Firecookies post about the squirrel, Me too!!! Everyone was out on fires last summer, only people I could call to help was daughters in law and they are as much weenie material as I am. Anyway late one night I was watching TV and I saw this blur run across the logs (walls) about 4 feet up around the family room. I thought it was a mouse but it made two or three trips around the room and the dog was going crazy. It looked like a mouse the size of a cat. I had bought a box of apples to dry and had them stored in my husband's closet until I cut them up to dry. The next day I was putting clothes away and saw my apples had been destroyed every apple in the box had little teeth marks and chewed spots. Everynight for about a week I saw that creature running around the inside walls of the house. So I finally got a good enough look to know it was a squirrel. So brilliant me, I took the screen off the kitchen window and left the window open, hoping he would leave. Didn't see him the next day so I put the screen back on and thought life was good. Well next morning I walked in the kitchen and the little booger had chewed his way thru the screen and was back in the house. So now I have no apples and a ruined screen. Plus a bunch of bread and some cookies that were toast. So now we are at war. Hubby calls and I tell him to get his ----- home and shoot this monster. He had no problem telling me to use my shotgun and shoot it myself. Yea right. Hold still Mr. Squirrel. Blam!!!!! Opps, we were getting a new TV weren't we dear? No way....so I put up with The Terminator till hubby got home and we left the screen off again and yep....we caught him in a trap and Terminator was moved to the state park. I'm sure he has produced several generations of terminators and one of them is bound to find his way back here for revenge.....sammi
9/11	Fire Momma and Sammi... Oh my gosh are you two so right!! I couldn't help but laugh at both of your definitions of a melt down!! Mine does all of that and more... She is now at the stage where she will throw herself down and kick. Oh and the selective hearing that goes along with it is so much fun!! And Sammi you are right about bribing them with anything you can think of. Oh all you want to do with them when they are acting like this is to lock them in the closest closet!!! But of course we don't do that at least we don't admit it. Just kidding put down the phones and quit dialing CPS. Actually my little angel is asleep right now and this is the best time sometimes. Everything is good, one down and one to go!! Oh my and the mice stories are so funny. I actually dated a guy who lived in an orange grove and they had mice real bad. Not little ones either. BIG ONES!! I once ran out of the house and left until they got it out. Here in OR it is big spiders that like to be in our house. I use the JC Penney catalog to kill them. Last summer my husband was on a fire and he called me. Here I am talking to him for the first time in a few days, when all of the sudden I scream and toss down the phone. I am yelling like a little girl and I start throwing the catalog at this huge thing. I picked up the phone after it was dead and lying under the catalog and calmly proceeded with my conversation. I told him what I had done and he was laughing so hard I thought the whole camp would be in on the funny. Well that is my contribution today to the critter killings. FireWife
9/11	Ok now here is the expert talking. When any child is behaving in any way that mom finds annoying or bewildering, you get down on all fours so you are eye level with the little rugrat and get right up there forehead to forehead and you whisper,,,,"Sisie, if you will stop screaming and throwing your crackers in the playpen with your brother, I will let you go to the freezer and pick out any color Popsicle you want. And if you want ice cream after that we can do that also. But you have to promise not to scream any more until the next wakeup (tomorrow)." All of that behavior modification and non-stressing is -----------. BRIBE THEM!!!!!!!! It works. I was in the huge grocery store with our sweet baby when he was about 4. He wanted something and in my stupidity I refused to let him ruin his dinner. He threw the biggest fit I have ever witnessed. MY theory at that time was remove the child from the reason for his anger. So I grab the kid off the floor, him kicking and screaming and I football carry him toward the front of the store going to the car. I am telling him we have to leave if he doesn't shape up. Oh boy was that a mistake. I carried that squirming kid thru the store with him yelling "call the police, CHILD ABUSE, she is beating me, help I am hurting, mom stop you are breaking my arm" and on and on and on.(His older brothers had contributed by teaching him this technique) And honestly I do not know why someone did not call the cops. Let me say this since the stature of limitations has not run out.....that child NEVER did that again. And that is as much of a confession you are getting. maybe I will sign this anonymous (sammi) Ok, I have solved the problems with furry creatures and children. I am going home to see what kind of mess the fish have made. Hopefully my computer will be ok tonight.....later sammi
9/11	Hi guys, I have been working way too hard and my e-mail at home is down so I am posting from the office. It's legal. Dawn, ever heard the word CAT !!!!! I have two and their whole existence is to get all those furry little creatures that love log homes in the woods. I'll tell you all the squirrel story later...anyway. My cats love to catch mice and bring them home to me....like they are feeding me I guess. So if any of the testosterone crowd are around, I just stand there and yell pointing at the little headless body that is either on my bed or in my chair. Sweet kitty's. If none of the testosterone carrying people are around, I do my thing. Picture me sneaking around the dead, still, cold little furry beheaded body. As if it is gonna jump on me. I hurry to the kitchen to grab two surgical gloves (used to make hamburger patties) anyway I put on the surgical gloves, get a huge baggie, sneak back to the beast and put my hand in the baggie, like a pillow case, and pick up the monster. YUK!!!! Fold the baggie over really fast and RUN for the outside trash. They are never to be buried in my kitchen trash, ever !!!!!!! Oh and that reminds me of Betty the cat...couple of years ago one of my guys was on a fire and found a tiny black kitten. He hauled her around in his coat for a couple of days till they were demobed and he brought her home to me. He had named her Betty after the only bar in the area he was in. So we have Betty the Cat named after "Betty's Bar". He took her with him when he got married but the new wife could not handle the headless mice on her bed, so I have Betty back and son pays kitty support (food) and has liberal visitation. Betty is still supplying me with little headless rodents but not as often so I am grateful for that. sammi
9/11	TazGirl, I would be happy to talk to you and Ab can pass my email addy on to you. But here is the low down: you don't really need any special qualifications to go out as a radio operator. There is a self study course you can take to be a dispatcher, just call up your local Forest, BLM, BIA, NPS, of FWS district and ask to be referred to their fire program and they can tell you all about it. If you want to apply to be a dispatcher or something of the like go and look in USAJobs and formally apply, but you can also just go out as an AD which is an emergency hire position. The way to do that is to find out the number for the regional dispatch center you want to work out of and give them a call. Let them know that you want to be made available as an AD radio operator and see what they say. Generally they prefer for you to be associated with an agency already, but it is really just a matter of getting friendly with folks. Communications is fun and important. You usually work 15 hours a day in camp and will have hours of down time when nothing is happening (you read a book or write letters, whatever) then bam! You get a medical evacuation. You also have to get on good terms with Supply and Ground Support so you can expedite line orders efficiently and get the guys on the line what they need. You also have to write down EVERYTHING because sometimes Helibase or somebody will drop the ball and they are going "what were those coordinates again?" I like communications but not everybody does, some people hate feeling like they are stuck babysitting the radio, but I feel like it is important work. Fire camp is awesome, I love it. The only bummer is that after working all day you just go to sleep after that so you spend all your time in the commo unit so you spend two weeks in camp talking on the radio being well fed and hence you put on a few pounds. FireChica
9/11	Taz, Geesh...I suppose we could just let you stew about the "melt down"... ; ). But, as far as I could figure out from talking to as many people as I could about this when mine were going through it (which they ALL did)... according to child psychology folks, the "Tearful Threes" follow the "Terrible Twos." Specifically, in terms of psychological development, when a little one is three they go through a period of realizing they have these things called "emotions" yet have no idea of how to control them. So, like a runaway truck with no governor on the transmission (that is where the governor is, isn't it???) at times of high stress and/or fatigue, and/or stimulus overload, ...well, you know those volcanoes we made in fourth grade science class? It's like that just with emotions. It doesn't stop...till it stops. By that time, mom is usually wiped out and babe is exhausted and sleeping. Dawn & FireWife, did I do okay in the explanation department? How's things today? Fire Momma
9/11	Fire Chica, Please, please, please tell me how I might be able to get into something like that for next season. How did you get into it? What is it like on the job? Where are you based? Do you travel? What agency do you work for? Etc, etc? I need some info. if you don't mind taking the time. I would greatly appreciate it. What training did you have before hand too? Thank you so much and glad yer back. TazGirl While FireChica catches her breath and shucks her smoky clothes, you might read up on the 310-1 qualifications (it's a pdf file) for ICS positions. Search on the mnemonics that she sent in. Leave off the (T). You'll see what is required in terms of course work and OJT for the positions. (You can always find this link on the links page under education and training.) Ab.
9/11	Hello one and all! I am back from a stint on the Rathbone Fire in Montana. I went out as a RADO and got promoted to INCM(T) (Communications Manager). I'm hooked! I am a full on radio junky! Hopefully I can get myself into a Communications Technician class next year. Hope all is well with everyone. It is going to take me a while to get caught up Later! FireChica Take a look at the mnemonics list to see what those ICS acronyms stand for. (T) after anything denotes trainee, which you have to do in most positions to complete your OJT (on the job training) and get it recorded in your PTB (position task book). Ab.
9/11	Oh my, you gals are too funny...explosives, mice, 3-yr old meltdowns, testosterone, etc. Good stuff. Dawn & Fire Momma, I would love to have you explain a 3-yr old "meltdown" to me. C'mon Dawn, you owe us another story. I want details. ;) Happier day...I talked to my man this morning for like 20 whole minutes I think, maybe even 30!! And he wasn't exhausted. He was at the airport waiting for his flight to Boston. We even talked a little bit more about plans. He brought it up actually. I think his words were, "so have you gotten over this firefighting idea yet?" He doesn't seem to mind the idea of me dispatching, but then again doesn't necessarily understand it or why I would want to get into it if it's not a career. But the thing he is so adamant about is me doing anything else in wildland fire, such as working for an engine crew. He absolutely does not want me to get into that. I was really trying to figure out his motive for this. I think it comes down to two things: 1) he is burnt out, wants a career change and does not want me falling into this; he wants me to go back to school and/or find something else steady, not seasonal 2) he thinks that I would be treated badly by all the 500 guys around and have nasty things said about me, which is probably what he must hear from his guys about our female FF's (he works w/ an all male crew); I don't think he wants guys talking that kind of mouth about his girlfriend. So justifiable or not, I told him he's lucky I'm not really set on working for an engine crew. I mean, I toyed w/ the idea, but that's about as far as it went. I'm much more interested in dispatching. And then I told him that I think I could really only get a dispatching job in Alaska and that I didn't really want to do that, be based out of Alaska. So there's more discussion as far as that all goes. We would basically be in almost the same situation if we were both to work out of Alaska next summer and I'm really trying to avoid that lengthy of a separation. Two weeks to a month is one thing, but five months is a whole 'nother ballgame. And I want this relationship to work dam'mit. He should be finished by early October. He said they are going to do another 2-week tour and then probably a half tour and then head home to Alaska. So that's three weeks out, travel time, R&R time, and eventually here. I'm still looking at another month basically. Yechhh. I'm trying to work on him to fly here for my b'day because it falls on his next R&R. But the odds of that are slim to none. The hour glass is almost out of sand ladies, but I'm hangin' in there. Went wakeboarding yesterday....yippeee! Got rained on twice but then it kept clearing up and we saw this awesome full rainbow. My brother came with me and we went and saw this old friend of mine I mentioned before, that has moved here. The water temp. was 86 degrees people!!! It feels good. If you get cold when it rains, you just jump in the water. Sammi, if you want to see some good action photos from our last roller derby bout, check out my profile on Fire Chat and there is a link. Remembering soberly the people of 9/11 today, TazGirl
9/11	Hello everyone!! Well sorry I haven't been on these past couple days. Don't know if I had said it before but we are moving. Well into a house in the same town but still I have to pack and unpack and all the other fun stuff it entails. I have missed being on here lately, but I am so glad to be moving into a house again and not living in an apt. It was getting very crowded. Thanks for the fun evening on chat!! I haven't laughed that hard in a long time!! Dawn.. I totally understand the 3yr old meltdown. We have been having them almost every night lately since she has been fighting taking naps. Luckily on Monday her daddy was home and they were playing in her room!! We missed you in there hope you make it next time. TazGirl... Go For It!! I hope you get the job. Money is a good thing!! But don't forget to make time for yourself. That is the most important thing. Good Luck in the semi finals... Give 'em He@* I have missed being on here lately, but we have been moving!! I am so glad to be living in a house again and not an apt. It was getting very crowded. Hope everyone is doing good and that everyone is safe!! And Abs is right Amazon is a great website to order from. I will remember that the site gets money if we order through them since I am about to order Christmas gifts... Hope everyone is doing good and that everyone is safe!! FireWife
9/11	Ooookayyy Ab, I realize our physiological make up includes various levels of both est. and test.. I was merely suggesting I had subconsciously acted to flush the larger concentrations from my immediate area...for awhile. But, maybe not. Could just be my own sardonic grasp at faulty logic. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) Sardonic \Sar*don"ic\, a. [F. sardonique, L. sardonius, Gr. ?, ?, perhaps fr. ? to grin like a dog, or from a certain plant of Sardinia, Gr. ?, which was said to screw up the face of the eater.] Forced; unnatural; insincere; hence, derisive, mocking, malignant, or bitterly sarcastic; -- applied only to a laugh, smile, or some facial semblance of gayety. Where strained, sardonic smiles are glozing still, And grief is forced to laugh against her will. --Sir H. Wotton. The scornful, ferocious, sardonic grin of a bloody ruffian. --Burke. Here's to learning a word a day..."Sardonic" Ciao, Fire Momma Haw Haw - nice save, Ruffian. Ab.
9/11	Checking in. I definitely need to check into a two-module "firefighter re-entry" program...The first module for the returning firefighter, and the second for the SO. Just sent all the fallers we had back on our roster out again...this time north. Whew...the ole house has quite a different feel with only estrogen here. My daughter, myself, dog, cat and 24 laying hens. I honestly didn't realize I'd disposed of the last bit of testosterone with the three roosters I put in the freezer. Wonder if there's anything subconscious about that....Hmmm. Dawn, I could just feel your frustration. But, when a three year old has a melt down, there's almost nothing I could figure out to do aside from calm down myself, calm the house down, put on soothing music and hope they get the "calm" by osmosis. I can remember how hard that was to actually accomplish. Hope things went better for you tonight. An unhappy babe can be so draining for mom. Nerd, I looked back and don't think I have your email. If you'd like to talk about explosives, I'd be happy to. Just let Ab know you'd like to contact me directly. OOOooohhhhh! Explosives! Fire Momma Can't say I have ever felt our house with no testosterone. <snort> Ab.
9/11	Abs! Why didn’t you tell me you got a percentage if we went through your link! I just ordered a whole slew of stuff from Amazon (direct from their site), and I wish you’d gotten some of that. Drat! Nerd on the Fireline OH well. From where I sit, it eems we Abs push that "help support our site" information way more than we should. At least Original Ab and I buy our computers through Amazon. Helps us pay our bills...
9/10	Hideho, I am working late and decided to take a break so what do I do,,,,check family said of course. Tonya- I sent a cell phone with my guy this time and he is not too awful far from home and in a good cell phone spot so I am getting calls 3 to 4 times a day. he usually just calls at night if he can. So be careful, you may get what you wish for and he will be bothering you all the time. (not really, it does help to have him call a lot, except now he is telling me all the things I need to do.) Has anyone seen a book written about families of wildland FF and their stories of life on national forest etc. I saw it listed someplace and can't find it now. Abs is correct (man they know a lot) Amazon Books is great, I have ordered lots of stuff from them, including a Wildland GI Joe. (the large one) and never had a problem. Someone asked me about the t-shirt that says "you think being a FF is bad, try being a FF wife" you can order them from a company called "Our Designs" again very reputable place to do business. They have their catalog on the net also..... Derby queen- good luck and send pictures, sounds like you have a huge support group. That's awesome. You go win. gotta go fight tigers..... hope everyone is ok sammi
9/10	You guys are all so wonderful to have around! If you could have seen me and that damn mouse you would have died laughing. There is still at least 1 more lurking in my kitchen! The DH is gone on fires daily, but has come home most nights because he is working on his own forest right now. No Biscuit fire for him last year...last year was his first year...he was on a college crew and went to the McNally (Sequoia), and the Williams (Angeles Nat'l Forest), and that was it, at the end of fire season he was offered this gig up here, so up we moved. I am so sorry to have missed the chat the other night, but my 3 year old had TOTAL melt down around that time. She had had no nap that day, it was truely UGLY! Anyway, I am here, at least a couple times a week. I will try to stay in the loop :) Dawn
9/10	Wow, it's pretty quiet around here after our chat the other night eh? What's everyone up to? Thanks for the input on the waitressing gig. It really put things into perspective for me. It helps me to weigh opinions before making decisions, because I can be so indecisive. I'm going to apply tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get the job because I really need the money. My life is going to be a blur w/ two jobs and my social life. Yikes... Talked to my FF this morning. He was at a WA airport on his way to SLC and then to Maine. He seemed pretty cheerful to not be working. I was a little bitchy and irritable at first because I'm so impatient these days about our situation, but improved after talking to him for a bit and joking around. I told him I'm going out on the lake today w/ an old friend (male) that just moved here. He remarked that I sure do have a lot of guy friends and I could tell he was a little irritated by it. I said yeah, I guess I do, but I always have. Guys are easy to hang around with. And so what if he is the slightest bit jealous? I think a little healthy jealousy can be a good thing, right? Give him some motivation to get here as quickly as possible. Maybe I'm just being petty. But so what. I've been beyond patient this summer. My patience is starting to wear thin...not much longer. I reminded him that my b'day in 2 weeks fall on his 2 days off. That is a nice fantasy but it is so close before he is finished that I doubt it is worth it. He might be completely done by then and have to go back to Alaska on their dime before coming here. For those of you that read Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver, did you read The Poisonwood Bible by her as well? It is SOOO good. I just started Ghosts of the Fireground by Peter Leschak and am really enjoying it so far. I really like his writing. I swear, between my computer use and fire stuff always being on the screen and my fire related books always laying around, my friends must think I've come undone. But that's why I have you guys... My roller derby bout is this Sunday. It's the semi-finals. My mom, dad, aunt, uncle and 82 yr old Grandma will all be there among a ton others. Should be a lot of fun, although I'm gonna be really nervous. This game determines if we play in the top two at Championships or bottom two. Ugh... Y'all take care, TazGirl Ab plug: if you order any books thru our amazon link, we get a small percentage and it helps pay the bills here. The Abs frequently order all kinds of things thru Amazon and have never had a problem with receiving them in a timely fashion.
9/10	Robbie; I don’t whistle Dixie…I’ve been known to sing Sweet Home Alabama at the top of my lungs, but I don’t whistle Dixie. Nerd on the Fireline (amused)
9/9	Taz, Regarding the waitressing gig....Absolutely nothing wrong with showing the world that you're a strong, capable, intelligent AND beautiful woman. It's all in the attitude you project, not the outfit you are wearing. If you hate it or how you feel about it...what do you have to lose? Quit! While it may seem a little jaded, the people with the problem are the ones whose minds are so narrow that THEY objectify women, regardless of their gender. Chat was fun last night, but my head was spinning trying to keep up with the conversation threads. Oregon Jewel
9/9	Hey everyone! >From the looks of the recent posts it seems to be life on Family Said as usual. I hope to hear good news about all of your FFs coming home soon. School is a drag, already! But it is keeping me very busy. My FF and I are discussing future plans, yippee! There isn't a chance of us getting married before the fall of 2005, but we are looking for land. We aren't in a rush to find it, but if we find a good deal we're definitely considering buying. That is my good news for the day. This weekend is going to be like old times of my FF being out west. He has his basic air op.s training this weekend. Only this time, I'm sending MY cell phone with him! His cell gets no reception ANYWHERE! We'll see if he can remember what number he has to call me at! Talk to you all very soon! Tonya
9/9	Whoo-hoo, (formerly) FireMomma...I would be so happy to get any further info you've got on getting fire-tree-hazard-blaster certified...I'm kind of half-assedly working on my commercial blaster's cert right now, with that kind of peripherally in mind. But Primacord is fabulous stuff. I had a project once collecting waste bits of it from an operation, bundling them up, and detonating them. "Disposal". I called it a very entertaining week...a bundle the size of a foot ball blew a big chunk of 13" structural steel I-bean into four pieces, one of which we never found. How about that for a moniker? Primacord? Tree-detonator? Ka-boom? Big Bada-boom (hmm, that could be interpreted as suggestive...might want to avoid that). I think Primacord suits you...a suitable warning to any who'd tackle you in debate! Nerd
9/9	Robbie, We need to talk...I'm checking into explosives felling training right now. Interested? I am. Taz, I waitressed for 18 years. You do the math. That must mean I did it while I was doing everything else...including raising three kids on my own, going to college AND developing a career. You bet your ass. If you have the right attitude, you can even get one hell of a lot of excellent writing material while you're at it, and a good paycheck. I once popped a kid on the forehead with the back of my hand and told him to develop some manners. I was filling his water glass and he slapped my hand away because he hadn't asked for more water. I do believe the whole table threw out a $20 tip over that incident. The kid sulked out of there with his buddies kicking his butt. It's all in the way you decide to conduct yourself. Do what you need to do but don't let anybody treat you like you're less of a woman than you are. Rock on little woman. Fire Momma
9/9	We missed you last night, Nerd. And you too, Sammi. Robbie, where were you? We had a good ol' time. I even left practice early to make it. Has anyone heard from Tonya lately? She must be busy w/ school and her man. Lucky... How late did the rest of you continue after I left? I talked to my FF for about ten minutes and then went to meet my friend from out of town because he left this morning. Boy, I really notice the difference when talking to my FF between the first of his 14 days and the last. He is so tired at the end, it is really hard to have much of a conversation. He is too tired to get very involved in what I have to share and too tired to really offer much of his own. Most of our conversations now end with, "I'm sooo over this." (the phone/not seeing you business I mean) Well, not much else going on for now. I might go get a second job waiting tables. My brother knows a girl that works this barbecue place and she makes really good money. But then I looked it up on the internet and its theory is similar to Hooters. I.e. you have to wear pretty short shorts/skirt, etc. So, since I respect all you strong women's opinions, am I degrading myself if I do this for two months to make money to go travel? Am I selling myself out to do this? Or using it as purely a temporary opportunity to make quick money? Which is more important...making a stand that I won't do it, or making that money? My bro's friend says she makes about $150 - $200 a shift...with her clothes on people...this is still waitressing we're talking about here. This is a real tough one for me. Thanks for any input, TazGirl
9/9	Wow, Nerd, thanks for the e-mail info. You ain't just whistling Dixie when you say you are Nerd on the Fireline! I'd say you are THE Nerd. What a complete discourse on Pematex, Permatex, Pemacord, umm... P.R.I.M.A.C.O.R.D, yeah, the stuff that blows snags up when nothing else will do. Almost makes me want to become a faller. FireMomma, others, how many faller women are out there? What proportion of HS crews have faller certs? (my sister is gone again...) Robbie (Ab, thanks for cutting and pasting the e-mail from Nerd.)
9/9	FireMomma; You’re very right about crew bonding…I’m the only woman on the crew; I’m a nerd (it’s not just my moniker) and a brainiac and not real good at fitting in. My crew, well, we’ve got the usual contingent of French Foreign Legion rejects, bad boys, fire junkies and seasonal bums; fire and EMS in the summer, ski patrol and snowmaking in the winter. A few family men, a few who haven’t quite worked out what chicks are for besides looking at in the bar. But somehow after a season of training and some nasty fires (our specialty is initial attack in seriously bad, bad terrain…our State Forestry assignment coordinator told us after one fire “I can’t believe you guys did that…the hotshots would have told me to go to hell.”) we’re kind of scarily tight. Makes it hard to get a date…this town’s so small that I always seem to have at least three self-appointed big brothers within earshot. Sigh. What you said in They Said about respect between crews was important and right-on in my opinion…we all have different strengths and weaknesses. My crew is not a HS crew…but we’re fast, we’re flexible, and we can respond anywhere in our area within two hours. We can operate in the field as anything from a two-man saw team to a full crew, and we’re very, very good at getting squads into nasty terrain where most other crews would, well, tell the assigning officer to go to hell. We can’t really do big project fires, we’re not really set up to go out every two weeks for an entire summer, we don’t get paid to train…but we’re the best tool for a lot of jobs. Does that make us better than hotshots? Not really. We think we’re pretty impressive, though. Fire fighters tend to be arrogant; we do a very hard job, generally very well. We get a lot of people telling us we’re heroes (a pet peeve of mine; I’ll get into it later if anybody’s interested), and that tends to inflate the ego. HS get told they’re the elite of the elite; ditto jumpers. We’re trained to be self sufficient, too, and that combination makes it hard to ask for help, and hard to recognize when we need help. I’ve watched (and swamped for) guy falling trees that were too much for them; too big, too hazardous, too burned out. I’ve seen some get away with it, and I’ve seen some move really really fast when lots and lots of tree didn’t do what they thought it was going to. Thank God I’ve never seen anybody get hurt that way; but I’ve sure seen some get scared. I hope I never see anybody head off to the Firecamp in the Sky that way. We all need each other is I guess what I’m trying to say; no single crew ever has the skill set to tackle every conceivable situation. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. I’m not always as graceful as I could be when somebody more qualified than I tells me I’m getting myself in over my head; but I do try to listen, step back, and re-evaluate. I don’t want to explain to my boys that got patted on the top of the head by a sixty-foot pondo. Nerd on the Fireline
9/8	Hoosier, Thank you so much for your encouragement. You know how it is, weeks go by and you're fine and then all it takes is that one day that you're just so sick of it you can't stand it. I just need to make it through this week and try to focus on other things. After that, I have a BIG roller derby game this Sunday, a visit with my mom possibly two weekends in a row, then my b'day and then he should be here a couple of weeks after that. I'm anxious to see how things progress between us after that. Hopefully, he will still be willing to put in the work to build those bricks. I think at this point, he knows he kind of owes it to me due to his absence. And won't feel differently come fall. But he seems pretty dedicated to the relationship and realizes I have been more than patient with him and offered him many chances over winter and spring (when he wasn't quite as devoted). I had a feeling he was worth it though and he did come around. This is really his first relationship so it has been a learning process and he didn't bring many skills to the table in the way of communication, etc. "relationship skills" (I always intend to shoot off a short one and end up going on and on) Catskilldog, so good to hear from you. I was starting to think you dropped off the face of the fire world since your man has returned. Hey gang, I haven't heard back from Mellie yet but I have practice tonight, as far as our "date" is concerned. Not much I can really do about it but if some of you will hang around past the first hour, that's when I can make it. Otherwise, poor little me will have to wait until next time. (sniffle, grin) And I hate to miss out. Where can I send off my request for a transcript Ab? ;) Maybe I'll talk to some of you chattier Kathys later on. Keep rollin' on, TazGirl
9/8	Robbie, I believe Raker Shaker was referring to explosives. Fire Momma
9/8	howdy to everyone, i just got caught up reading a gazilion posts and as usual enjoying it. my FF hub has been running with me three times per week and i've upped my strength training routine a notch. i am feeling pretty damm good! my body has actually changed quite a bit in just 3 weeks -- amazing! i don't know if i will be able to do the FFing thing this year for financial reasons, but i am going to try my best to set things up so i can definitely do it next year and my FF lover will most likely be smokejumping then and i will definitely be in the best shape ever! TazlinaGirl, hey, keep up the the good workouts! i've quit drinking beer for a while until i get into the shape i want to. (man i miss it -- polygamy porter, wasatch brewery, is my fav and not just because of the name!) i love austin -- i once rode a mountain bike around the entire city. i wish i had some friends here who were motivated to get a good workout -- but i'm not waiting around....plus i still got my hub and he's tough. he's got marine blood in him. hang in there with your man......i find that i would rather spend awesome small amounts of time with my lover than huge amounts of time with anyone else! plus, he's just got the cutest damm butt! humor is the best relationship saver....use it at all times!! everyone else, thanks for the entertaining stories! i will try to get in communication with you all tonight! ~catskilldog~
9/8	TazGirl, Cut yourself some slack girl. The stuff you are going through is rough, but good. You'd be going through this stuff in other ways even if your FF wasn't a FF. This is the hard work. The stuff that makes a great relationship. Keep thinking that you are building a relationship with this guy brick by brick. Some bricks are harder to form than others. Those of us who have been married to our FF for a long time can tell you that the building never stops (even during non fire season). Your relationship is forged via the fire (literally and figuratively). Sometimes the longer and hotter the fire the better the relationship. So keep on keepin' on (oh my I'm showing my age). You'll get this thing right. My FF was gone on trips for his graduate school project early in our marriage. Those where hard times and we didn't have a little kid at home all the time then. But the topper....the one that probably trained me to be a fire wife was when he went to the Ukraine (former U.S.S.R.) and worked at the foot of Chernobyl nuclear plant and studied mice for two weeks. No calls, no messages. "Bye honey" when they left U.S. soil and "Hello honey" when the plane landed back on U.S. soil. TazGirl you can do this! Be strong. He thinks you are strong. Well my FF is trapping bats tonight so I hope to see you-all at chat when that gets arranged. I would love to have a real time conversation. Hoosier
9/8	ab, i am finally getting back to you about the pics i sent a while ago. all of the pics are from the centerville, utah, fire. the close up heli shot is of a 407 doing a bucket drop, the other heli shots are skycrane bucket drops. thanks! ~catskilldog~ Welcome back. Hope you haven't been off having too much fun... Sending you an email... Ab.
9/8	Good article Heli Groupie. Interesting one from you, too Mellie. The issues in the articles seem a lot more complex that one might first think. It seems to me that it's easier (takes less brains or effort?) to take a hard stance one way or the other (with appropriate lists of dogma?) than to find ways to reasonably meet in the middle. Or maybe it's that more people live in the city and tend to think of the trees like stationary bambi's, more of an idealistic idea of nature than a real one? Trees do grow back but a monoculture is not the best way. On the other hand, the FS people in the Smithsonian article did say the old FS managers were slow to change to looking at alternatives to clearcutting, etc. Policy often goes from one extreme to the other as people fight to get change made and then policy moves back again to somewhere in the middle. Mellie, in your article they quote Partain. Was he the chief of CDF? My sister said he was. I wonder when. She said her professor in school knew him. Fire Momma What did Raker-Shaker mean when he/she said on theysaid, "some spell 'falling:' P-r-i-m-a-c-o-r-d."? Robbie
9/8	Thanks for your comments and insight Sammi. (I know you said you were leaving for this day, but you can read this later) I was just glad he didn't get mad because I was kind of unloading on him last night. I think that would've upset me more. And I wasn't really being that dramatic or anything, just sad rather. He apologized that he was putting me through this (like you said your hubby felt bad for the same reason). I said it was okay, that I had made that decision myself and that he was worth it. Our relationship is just so new you know? So hopefully it will be some kind of testament that we've successfully made it through this fire season w/o any resentment or anything else after only 6 months of dating, five actually. Five together, five apart. Now if I can just get over my nervousness of tackling the day-to-day prospect of being together and that adjustment. And the other point you made...them being out there, being told what to do almost 24/7. It makes a good point and was something I noticed before but couldn't put my finger on it. I know he is out there, working really hard, not much personal freedom and exhausted. But there is still that aspect of just going forward, being busy and not having to think too much or makes decisions for yourself or fill up time. For me, that is different for obvious reasons. I have a day to do nothing or social functions to go to that I wish I had a companion to go with, and just really notice his absence that much more. I'm certainly not saying he doesn't miss me very much, but how he copes with it is different I guess. I'm just babbling now... And yes, Poet, I find myself mentioning him in conversation all of the time and I'm sure my friends get sick of it. Especially since they have no real point of reference, having never met him. Kind of makes ya feel ridiculous sometimes...or childish. That's why this board is invaluable. You don't get that. I'm just holding out for that sand between my toes too. For those of you that haven't seen it already, Heli Groupie posted a great article link to a Smithsonian article about prescribed burning, timber sales, etc. and the debate over whether we are working against nature by putting out too many fires too early. It was a great article. Still left you sittin' on the fence to an extent though. But that ranger and the Montana example were hard to disagree with. I'm a little bummed too because my friend that is visiting from Cali (the music video guy) has hooked up with my best friend and has either been hanging out with her or working. He only stayed at my place the first night and then his suitcase disappeared and is over at her house. So I haven't gotten to hang out with him too much. And the dang monkey didn't show!!! I guess I should just be happy for my friend. But there are other circumstances that come into play that I'll get into later. The good news is...my friend from Colorado just moved here and I just got a call from him. Haven't seen him in over a year. And he has a boat for wakeboarding. Super yay. My FF is going to Maine this week to visit family so at least I can look forward to some good phone time. He is on the Maple fire in WA right now. He said he can't wait to play a lot of golf once he is here. I just can't wait for someone to go to the grocery store with, rent movies with and cook dinner. Ahhhh.... Here's to unreliable monkey handlers.... Cheers, TazGirl
9/8	really quick here then I have to go check on some things.... Taz....don't feel like you were weak or wrong to be weepy. My husband and I have been married more years than you are old I'm sure. I still have meltdowns and he still gets upset with the situation not me....he wants to fix it so I will feel better and he can't. So then he feels neglectful and it goes round and round. I think all of us, FF and the left at home brigade will be able to handle it much better if we recognize it for what it is and get thru it. The reason for the emotional roller coaster is because we care so much and they care so much and we are both stuck in a vacumn and cannot call the shots for ourselves. It is in the hands of the Fire Gods and we will weep, scream, cuss, throw a pitty party then pick ourselves up, dry our eyes, take a deep breath and get on with life. My husband learned a long time ago, because of my job I will come home sometimes mad or weepy and he knows to just sit and let me vent then I am ok.....its the same thing with fire, let me vent and I will be ok. He doesn't have to fix it- just listen. It works for us.... We are the strong ones, left to manage life, and they go out and have someone to cook, clean and tell them exactly what to do all the time. (wait that sounds like what I do when he is home) I'm outta here, be good girls and hang in there. Sammi
9/8	Thanks for the comments on the poem. That one hurt to write, but I felt better afterwards. (Still no word from him. I think when he gets home I will staple a cell phone to his forehead. LOL) I also have been reading TheySaid, and have another short one for you: (I don't have enough guts to post it there, but thought you all would enjoy it) ********************* Our skills compliment Our skills overlap Now can we all Quit this argument crap? Lives hang in the balance It's not us or them but "WE." Let's work together That's what counts, don't you see? Issues DO matter Safety first for all I've said enough Now it is your call. Poet
9/8	WOOHOO!!! It was in the 30's last night!! I am loving this cold front we are having here in Southern OR... Hoosier... Lawn mowed ** well it is done by me so that it does get done. Even when my husband is home they don't get off till about 6-8 so he doesn't have time to do it. Otherwise we would have ajungle out there. giggles... also my husband is also from up around those fires in MT. I just keep thinking about how beautiful MT is and I know it is right now even with all those fires burning. Nothing could take the beauty away from MT!! Poet... Thanks for the new poem I love it!!! I will add it to the others on the wall. They are my support when I need it and can't get on here. Keep them coming. Sammi... the hot springs sound good right about now. It sounds like you and your husband had a good trip. I wish mine was home long enough to go somewhere. well fire season will end soon enough and then we will be ready to shove them back out the doors! Fire Momma... Thanks for the support in your last post. Those of us who are new need all the moral help we can get. firecookie... Oh my that storie was sooo funny. Between you and Dawn and the animal stories I am laughing myself silly. this place is so full of hilarious antics I just love getting on to see what everyone will be saying. This isn't an easy life to be in but you guys here are making it a little easier with all your stories and support!! Thanks FireWife
9/8	Dawn, OMGosh, I am sitting here LMAO at you and remembering back, I have ALOT of stories..... I'm a firewife of over 11 years now, my hubby is a battchief for the FS, who is also on a national type 1 team, haven't seen him much in the past month, he was in Montana, now he is in No Cal. Your mouse story reminds me of 10 years ago when I was pregnant with our son, He was on a detail on the LP, and we were getting ready to move into housing at the helitack station at Lake Castias. He was gone, of course, and I was there to meet the delivery guys for my new washer and dryer. No one had lived in this house for a long time and the crews had just finished working and painting the house. You know, one of the Shotgun houses, with the VERY long hall way. I was going thru the closets in the house, and opened the closet where the washer/dryer go, and this damn grey squirrel jumped out at me, I chased him down the hall way towards the kitchen, where I thought he would go out the back door that was open, but low and behold he said No way little Momma, and turned around and chased me back down the hallway!!!, I slammed the bathroom door on him, and Stayed there!!!! Great trapped in the bathroom, not sure where the dang thing was, I wasn't sure if he was rampid or not, couldn't tell if the little beast was frothing at the mouth or not and I didn't want to take the time to check. Needless to say I was in there for about a 1/2 hour, (I spent my time putting the cabinet doors back on and cleaning) When the guys from sears finally showed up. I peeked out the door at them and asked if they had seen Squirrlzilla, told them the story and then had to endure their laughter for the next 10 minutes, and they snickered thru the whole installation. LOL. They checked the house out for me and couldn't find him, so we assumed he had left of his own free will. Another time (I was waddling by this time) I walked into the kitchen to turn on the exhaust fan over the stove to try and circulate air (no A/C) and as I reached up to punch the button, here sits this HUGE yellowishgreen Lizard. I froze, we locked eyes, and I did the slow moonwalk backwards to the front door and over to the neighboring house. When the helitack Capt opened his door, (he later said I was very pale), I told him about the new critter and he sent his boys over to catch it, He was still sitting there, I guess the metal was cooler than the counters. The boys were excited because we had lots of Alligator lizards around but no one had ever seen one like this. They caught him took him outside and then let him go in the field. Sheshhhhhhhh. Now mind you the crew at the station had nicknamed me Snow White, because I fed all the critters OUTSIDE!!! We had quail, rabbits, raccoons and even deer that came in, but I had no desire to have them IN my house, LOL. Oh yeha, and there was the time that the Hubs chased a mouse around with a boot and when he finally caught up to the thing under a hat, I made him CATCH it, because the poor little thing was shaking so hard and was so scared. Yeha, he thought I was crazy then too, LOL... Just keep your spirits up Hun and enjoy him when he is home. Heck who knows He might get to chase the mouse next time and you watch his comedy.!!! LOL firecookie
9/8	I guess about everyone's checked in post-weekend except me. Are you just on pins and needles or what? ;) Sammi, before I forget, another option for printing from the board (although you can edit it like Heli suggested): highlight the desired text, select Print from the File menu and when the prompt window comes up, select "selection" instead and it prints only what is highlighted. I have used that before for this board and it works. But if you wanna make it purdy then you should copy and paste into Word like Heli said. I had quite the weekend. I wish I could say I feel refreshed and rejuvenated to start my work week, but no. I'm tired and feeling a little burnt out. Last night I committed the cardinal sin of being a FF's girlfriend. I cried and whined on the phone. But you know, before you all shriek, it really wasn't that bad or pathetic. You know how some days are just really bad and you miss them so bad you can feel it in the pit of your stomach and yet there's absolutely nothing you can really do about it? It was one of those days. I was just feeling run down and needed something to soothe or comfort me and nothing would do that...except him...and he is 3000 miles or so away with at least a month to go. But after talking to him about it, I felt better. It's just been especially hard lately because I've talked to him barely twice in almost two weeks. I was really feeling that lack of connection and presence of distance and was trying to express that to him. He wanted to get off the phone at first after only five minutes or so of idle, distant chat. I was tired, he was tired and he was kind of PO'd at me. But that's the thing about men it seems. When they are PO'd, they don't tell you. His way of telling me was to get off the phone way too early w/ me. But I got it out of him and the conversation progressed after we talked some more and I think we both felt better. He thinks I go out too much with all my girlfriends and stay out late, drink too much and become irresponsible and he worries. And he's not entirely wrong by any means. I told him I would try to tone it down. There is just so much going on here ALL the time. And especially since I have 60 rollergirl friends too. You really have to be self-motivated in this town because at any given moment there are parties and bands to see, and five people willing to go with you and stay out late. You almost have to turn your phone off and hibernate at home to stay away from it all. This is all another reason I think I'm ready for a move. I've lived here through college and beyond now and think I need something else. I need a change of lifestyle. I absolutely love it here and am terrified of not making friends like I have here. But I also don't see myself progressing much if I stay here. And I'd really like to live in/around the mountains also. I'm am so envious to hear about you guys road trips up there and all the camping opps. available. And the trees.... It must be gorgeous. Thanks for you poem Poet. I feel so honored to be included it it. You have such talent. Nerd, I think you're right. I'm just going to have to start making some calls. With all the different agencies and stuff, it can be a little confusing. But I'll figure it out. The dispatcher thing seems obscure at time as far as info. posted. Dawn, the 'not knowing' aspect of FF does suck, indeed. Making plans seems impossible. And when they tell you they'll be spiked out for 2 days, and 2 turns into 5!!! And that's just waiting for a phone call, no return to home. Hopefully that will be my situation next summer though. I agree w/ Heli, when the summer started (it's my first) I became quite obsessed with the Sit. Report and any/all other fire news. It made me feel more connected and not totally in the dark. My roller derby championship game is 10/5 and I've been begging my FF to be here by then. But as far as planning on it...that'll never happen. It's slim that he'll be done by then. He has to go back to Alaska first too and then down here. I think I've yapped enough for now. I know this is really long...sorry. Post-weekend catch up you know. Thanks again for listening, TazGirl
9/8	Ah Sammi, It's the nature of the beast. When someone is riled about the faller issue and they can't find anything intelligent to say, they always throw out the big stinking Red Herring...."Well who says your fallers are better than anyone else's?" It's a non-issue. It's just that the whole discussion of creating national standards for fallers is so beyond what many of these folks can fathom, its scarey. So, they puff up and make a personal attack. Like Mellie, I tend to get cramps in my belly from laughing so hard. I have never said our fallers are the best God ever created. I have said they've gone the extra mile to prove they have commercial falling experience AND they've taken the time to complete S130 & S190 and pass the pack test at the arduous level. NONE of which is required by any agency. The fallers all agree it is necessary to raise the bar of professionalism for contract fallers on fires. Critics (usually the small hand full of fallers who have been handed the majority of the fire assignments in the past...) are crying "foul." It's not "Faaaaaaair...." Phouey. Pishaaa. MANY of them also don't like the idea of a woman at the helm of a company of professional timber fallers. You know what I say? "I'm learning to play a mean hand of poker. So, pick up yer cards fellas." Also, I will say that there are many, many "lurkers" out there who follow the They Said conversations closely, and who jump over to Family Said to check out what's going on. This board has an exponentially larger audience than those that choose to post. I've had many discussions with folks who read the posts, but who do not participate. What I'm saying here is...it's like Nemesis said...but without the paranoia attached to it. There certainly is a broad readership. And, rather than being frightened, I urge you all to remember that They Said and Family Said provide an incredible opportunity to communicate. Sammi, you do it well all the time. The fire shelters...your suggestion for fresh professional drivers...many other excellent observations...REAL, GENUINE, no BS observations that have REAL WORLD impact. That is the true value of this venue. Don't be afraid someone's going to "come down" on you. If you truly stand behind what you're saying and feel strongly about certain issues, it shouldn't matter. Sammi, Heli Groupie, Fire Wife, Poet, Nerd, Fire Chica, Hoosier, Dawn, Taz, Northzone5, Mellie....you all are wonderful. Your ideas, concerns, aches, and joys are real. Let the the lurkers stand in awe of your courage to discuss these things. (My word...was that a trumpet I just heard....) Ciao, Fire Momma
9/8	Hoosier**** My SO works Helitack. They were flying the crews in and out of the fire and also supplies, meals (instead of Meals on Wheels, I guess you could say Meals on Rotors LOL) and such when the crews were spiked. Also doing water drops. Their helibase was by the Big Hole Battlefield and the fire camp was at Lost Trail Pass about 20 miles up the road from the helibase. Sammi**** To copy Poet's poems...just highlight with your cursor the text you want to copy, go up to your edit menu and select copy. After that select something like Windows WordPad or some other Wordprocessing Program and Paste it in from the edit menu. Then save it as a file. If yuu save it as a WordPad file it will be in a text format that you can import into other programs so if you want to make it pretty with artwork and have something like PrintShop you can do that. Sounds like you had quite the adventure on your mini-vacation. We took a trip up to Idaho Panhandle earlier this year. I just fell in love with the area - so many trees! Reminded me alot of the Flathead area, but with even more trees. Our valley is really wide so it's quite a distance to drive to be in the forest. It's quite the contrast to have huge evergreens growing right on the roadside. Heli Groupie
9/8	after catching up: Dawn, hang in there. It will be over soon....then when they get on our nerves we will be wishing there was a fire to send them to. Wasn't he on the Biscuit Fire in Oregon last year? I think that is the one. Has he been staying close to his own forest this year? he is Forest Service, right? Your right, it is the not knowing what to expect that is the worst for me also. Can't make any plans, can't even depend on when to fix meals, and the kids never know when dad will show up. I do much better when mine is off on a fire and I know the start and the end. I remember when our son was down on the St Joe. He was working on a forest that year and had the 5th wheel down there to live in. My hubbie and I packed up one Thur and went down there to visit him and do some fishing. Our son had not been on any fires except the small ones on his forest.....wouldn't ya know it...he got called out later that Thur night and was gone till the next Tuesday. So we didn't see him but for a couple of hours the whole weekend. They really don't like to be away from home. And it is such a contradiction but they also want to be out on the fires. It is a very difficult position for them to be in....we say" you say you don't want to be away from home, then you fly out the door like you are going to a party" I don't understand the FF mentality , they don't themselves. I still think we need Firefighter anonymous.....like AA. Hey Poet......really liked the new poem. I wish someone would tell us how to print them....any computer geniuses out there? sammi
9/8	Oh my gosh....did you guys miss me. My hubbie and I decided Friday afternoon to take a mini vacation so we packed two little overnight bags and headed north. Called the phone chain and told them we were going to be out of the loop and would check in with them a couple of times a day.....I turned the cell phones off we could not be called. I would not let him take his radio so I thought we were safe..... We got to Bonners Ferry Idaho and guess what....they have a rip snorting fire west of town that is really cooking.. about 3500 acres.. so we had to stop and check it out of course. Took pictures and watched with the binoculars. made it across the border and closer we got to Cranbrook, BC the more smoke we saw.....wouldn't ya know it....HUGE FIRE west of Cranbrook, the whole place is on evacuation notice. There was a bizillion firetrucks, heli's, tenders, flatbeds with all kind of equipment. scattered all over the place. MY man was in FF heaven. We HAD to stop and check out some army machine thing with tracks instead of wheels. Then he got into a conversation with a Mountie and some Canadian FF's at one of the roadblocks....I read my book. At about 20 min I cranked Alan Jackson up on the radio and he came back..... We stayed at a Motel in Cranbrook Fri night and the restaurant was packed with you guessed it FF from all over the world......again FF heaven. On a personal note the smoke was sooooo bad in Cranbrook I ended up taking allergy meds and complaining about the smell and wondering if my car seats were gonna absorb the smoke smell. And dear hubby could not even smell it.....I guess their noses are so use to it they really don't smell the smoke after being in it so much. We got out of the smoke up around Windermere...went to Radium Hot Springs. It was wonderful. Got home tonight about 5:30 pm and his marching orders were waiting.....so he loaded up and was out the door in the blink of an eye. Guess where he is going? After looking at the fire map there really is no where to go up here that we would not have been in fire country. But, it is raining here now so that is good. We haven't had any rain in seems like months. So tomorrow I start another week as a fire orphan. No body here but the dog, the fish and me. Do any of you have experience with Siamese Fighting Fish? Fire momma: what kind of trouble are you in on They Said...I sort of skimmed thru it and sounds like you have quite the "discussion" going. need any help? We could round up the Calvary ("FamilySaid" ) and jump over there and help.....naw you can takem, you go girl. Take no prisoners!!!!!! I will catch up on all I've missed later and see what you guys have been yakking about.......sammi
9/8	Hi all Just got back from a weekend with my FF, step-daughter and daughter. Had nice quality family time. Did not't talk about fire at all. He's ready to go back out, but I might blow a fuse since he is going to fire school in Oct. for 2 weeks and wants to go on any KY fire late in the season. Plus the FS keeps their people in training ALL the time. But anyway. Question. How dose your lawn get mowed? Mine has not't been mowed in six weeks. Good thing you can't see the house from the road? :) NZ Mom thanks for the weather lesson. My FF is from (of all places) the part of Montana that is burning! Recently he was on the Blackfoot fire just outside his hometown. I have only begun to understand Montana weather, it is so different from Hoosier country. I've been trying to read some of the fire behavior books and get an understand too. We watch the weather map with a totally different perspective now. Heli Groupie My FF was on the Black Frog Complex early in the season and most recently was all over the Bob Marshall and Spotted Bear in MT (see above). My FF mostly digs line and puts out smoke. What dose your FF do? Most of our men and women are out west. Time to have some spouses and SO's over to my house for dinner! Well all --I think he is home until Fire School in Oct. but I'll keep checking in with you. A good night's sleep to you all, happy dreams and wonderful homecomings! Hoosier
9/7	Twenty-one days Have come and gone Why is my firefighter Been gone so long? He warned me, he did It was not fair to me That he was gone so much and for so long, you see. I know it's not me, It's the call of the fire It's the life that he prefers A choice I do admire. I said I could handle it The loneliness, the strife All the things you would go through to be a firefighter wife Fire Momma, Taz, Sammi, Heli Groupie too. This is the time, I most need all of you. Help me to make it To survive to the end The man is worth it My love, my friend. This prose shows my pain But the words they are true. I love my dear firefighter And I will STILL wait for you. ****************************** A sad and lonely "Poet"
9/7	Dawn, I am also new to this Wildfire life. I have dealt with it (or at least tried to) for the last two months. This list is the BEST thing that you can have to help cope with your SO being gone. I have learned a lot, and any questions you may have will be answered by many people, from all different viewpoints. The more information you have, the more you can understand and cope. Now I have a question for all of you. Does anyone else here drive their friends nuts with mentioning their SO's name in most conversations? I find myself saying "{insert name here} would LOVE this, or I wish He could see that...?" It seems to get worse the longer he is gone. By the time 3 weeks goes by, my friends roll their eyes when I mention his name. <G> (Yes it is in a humorous way, but still... *sigh*) How does one cope with this? What can I do to keep from driving both myself and my friends nuts? Any suggestions? Note: Most of them have yet to MEET him, as he is gone some much. Thanks, Poet
9/7	Hey Dawn, Your mouse story brought a smile to my face and reminded me of a similar incident I had. I was scheduled to host a Pampered Chef party at my house, when I discovered a mouse in my house. Knowing that I had this party coming up, I put out poison bait in the hopes of taking care of the problem before the party. Well, the clever littler bugger managed to avoid the stuff for weeks. So, a week before the party I called and cancelled because the thought of having the mouse join the party wasn't too appetizing. That Saturday, at the exact time the party would have been in full swing, I hear my daughter yell from the kitchen, "Look mom, the mouse is playing on the floor!" I go into the kitchen and there in the middle of my kitchen floor is this mouse flopping around making his last death throws. I was soooo grateful that I'd cancelled the party! Heli Groupie
9/6	Thanks to all of you wonderful people for your support and understanding. I know he can take care of himself out there, he may be fairly new to firefighting, but hey at least he is not being shot at in some far off land, right? If he was till a Marine, he would be right on the front lines somewhere, and that would scare the heck out of me more than fire. I just figure at least fire does not hold a grudge! LOL He did get home this afternoon after pulling an all nighter, and goes back first thing in the morning out to another fire. I guess the hard part is last year when he started this, he did 2 campaign fires. So I kinda knew where he was. Now being on the Forest, he may leave for work one day and not come home for weeks. I do follow the weather, it is hard not to when the lightening is so close you swear it's gonna hit your house! I am a Southern California girl, and this is my 1st year up here in No. Ca. ..so these summer storms are all new to me. I am really not that fond of thunder and lightening, but I try and keep it together for my girls. Oh and that mouse I spoke of...ran across my living room this morning while I was trying to put everything in my kitchen in Tupperware so that the little booger could not eat through packages. My cat caught it, but then dropped it in a toy bucket on the floor, I actually had to scoop it into a piece of tupperware and run ...freaking out...outside, and my neighbor let it go in a field for me. I can handle anything EXCEPT rodents, reptiles, and large spiders! I bet the entire town heard me screaming over a mouse! Thanks for listening, Dawn
9/6	FireMomma, you are a hoot ! I enjoy your posts. I just re-read your post of 8/27, ask some of the jumpers if their group doesn't have some kids size t-shirts - they did a year or so ago. did same thing you are with your second girl - and still believe in non-gender toys and activities. <chuckles> if you want a SJ t-shirt for her, I'll try to find one for her! keep the faith all. Lots of fires in many states; it may be another long burn year in some CA because of unseasonable rains & if big rains do not arrive early. TY Mellie for the link "The last time this area burned was 1956, so this is a lot of very dead, very dry material that's burning now, in addition to the bug kill area," she said" (CDF spokesperson). but the real kicker was, the idiot evacuee who was quoted, "We're mentally prepared for at least two days," ... "They have a pool and cable. It's nice." arrrgh! FFs are risking their lives to save the idiots who refuse to take responsibility to safeguard their choice to live in forest land and then turn around expecting or demanding others to save their butts & material possessions- if FEMA continues to waste my tax dollars to refund their loss I'll attempt to be in any court to say ENOUGH WASTE! (bet elected officials won't like my tomorrow's letters & emails) defensible space is not a new concept! the ppl who lived in Oakland Hills '98(?) as the world saw those fancy homes go up in flames learned a hard lesson ... and then the rains came (more ugly for those below). how many times can the Malibu area survive similar before ppl wake up, especially the county/city planners. to everyone out there on the line, in a bad situation your life is NOT worth anyone's possessions. Northzone5
9/6	Hoosier, I was going through the archives today looking for something and found out that our SO's were on the same fire earlier this season. Such a small world! Take care, Heli Groupie
9/6	Dawn, I know how you feel. Since I'm new to this whole fire thing myself, I know how hard it can be to feel like you're just sitting there... waiting for news. My SO had been doing this a lot of years before we got together and I just kept reminding myself of that - that he's very experienced and got along quite well for a lot of years taking care of himself without me, there was no reason to believe that he couldn't take care of himself now. I still worry though, but not so much now. I remember the first time he got called out, I did exactly what I promised him I wouldn't do...I cried. Needless to say, the whole scene didn't go over very well. He got mad and I felt like I'd let him down. That I had shown him I wasn't the rock he'd thought he'd hooked up with. The funny thing was, we'd been separated because of his job before, but this time it was for a fire. Somehow, that changed everything...it scared the h**l out of me. I surprised myself how much this first call affected me. I'm with Fire Momma. It helped me a great deal to engross myself with SIT reports and other fire information at first. I'd have to say I was probably a little obsessed. But, it helped take the mystery out of it for me. Having gleaned a little bit of knowledge about fire in general and the fire he was on, also had the added benefit of letting him know I was interested in what he was doing - so he is more forthcoming with information now than he first was. Before this, I'd ask how things were going and I'd get a "Good". Don't beat yourself up for being a "Paranoid" woman. Most of us have had years, and years of conditioning to make us the worriers (probably not a real word, but what the hay) we are. It's a great quality when you've got kids to rear. We just need to remind ourselves that our men are not our children (even if they act like one from time to time) and they are pretty darn good at looking after themselves. And planning something special for after the fire season is also a great idea. My SO and I are taking a trip when fire season is over and now I have something to look forward to. Just like Fire Momma, I dreaming of sand between my toes and ocean breezes on my face! It doesn't have to be something extravagant or expensive - but it should be something just for you, as a couple and/or a family. I would have been happy with a camping trip to the mountains...but funny thing, he wasn't too jacked about spending time in a tent. LOL Boy, I am I rattling on or what?! Ok, I'm shutting up. Take care girl, Heli Groupie
9/6	Nerd, You hit on the juice of the "magic" Mellie was talking about. In my view, "fire" isn't the focal point, its actually the common factor that brings all of us...and the rest of the firefighting world together. Yes, there is intrigue in learning the strategic aspect of fighting fire. But, the "magic" happens when people come together with a common purpose and interest. The overarching goal of working within the realm of fire helps us (hopefully) overlook our differences, as Sammi so eloquently put it. In crews, my observation is that the common purpose gives crew members a reason to find common ground. Its on this common ground they find the courage to expose the more vulnerable parts of themselves. Once that happens, bonding takes place. Its a good thing to watch. Crew bonds are not easily broken and they're what make crew members willing and able to go beyond what they ever thought they could do physically and mentally before. Crews are many times as close, if not closer than direct family ties. Your feelings about crew life is normal. And, good for you, that you've had the opportunity to experience it. Here's to hoping something warm and snuggly comes along your way as winter sets in. Fire Momma
9/6	Dawn, I understand your frustration over the "unknown" factor. You're living the reality of it right now. I will say, however, that if you start learning fire season behavior, where the fires start and how they tend to move north and west through the season, watch weather reports, learn to interpret storm patterns, etc., part of the unknown will be replaced by anticipation of what you think might happen next. I just emptied my faller roster in a matter of two hours last night between three different agency requests. For Oregon, this is prime fire season. The thunderstorms are fairly normal. The dry fuels mean they'll have to work extra hard to keep all of these lightening strikes small and manageable. The lack of resources...both here and elsewhere, is now making matters much, much worse for all. My husband gave ME "that look" when I told him he was up on the roster to take one of the assignments. It's funny to think of it. You all are waiting for "the call" to come in. And my husband has to deal with "the call" coming from me. We're extremely fair about how the dispatches are dealt out so there's no mystery about the roster ranking. When you're up, you're up. If you decline, you go to the bottom of the list again. Dawn, Chin up...work now means play later. Hey! I just got my tickets in the mail for my West Indies tall ship cruise! Yeee Haaa...Whoop Whoop. Work now...play later. I can just feel that white sand under my feet & its only two months away. Fire Momma
9/6	Dawn.... I feel the same way. I only dated military until I got married and you do know that when they leave it is for a set time. But with FF they can be all ready to walk out the door to come home and then be sent somewhere. And they can't always call and tell you so you sit and wait and hope they are ok. I worry all the time. I know he is good at his job but I still worry. And everytime you hear all these stories on the news I worry more. The kids don't understand why daddy made plans with them for tonight and then doesn't show. And with mine we are in the process of moving and I have to do it all since he is at work. We live about 90 miles from K Falls and yeah with the lighting the other night and then again last night he is busy. He hasn't been home early in days. You can email me anytime you want to talk or B*&!^ about his job or him not being home. Laughs!! I think you can get my address from Abs... FireWife
9/6	Well, I guess it is finally my turn. My FF is out somewhere in the Klamath where there are some 30 fires burning from the recent electrical storm. He left this morning with all intentions of being home tonight, I guess that is the hardest part...not knowing. I really don't mind him being gone, I married into knowing that he would be gone alot, I just hate not hearing from him, and him not coming home. You know back in Marine Corps days, it was 3 months gone here, 6 months gone there...I knew that he was not coming home, but this wait and see thing SUCKS!!!!! And I worry about everything that COULD go wrong, do all of you do this too? How do I get over the worry? And I hate being in the house alone with just me and the kids...again just the paranoid woman in me. (We do have 3 big dogs, so that helps a little) AND and I found out we have a mouse...or mice in my kitchen!!!! Darnit!!!! Okay, my bitching session is done with, thanks for listening. I am so glad you are all here, I would be lost without you. Dawn
9/5	Wow…families… Strange concept. I’m an only child, not much of an extended family, and I really grew up on field crews…I’ve always had a crew rather than a family, and not in any real hurry to establish one of my own (though winter’s drawing near and it might be nice to find something warm and cuddly before it starts snowing). I think one of things that really drew me to fire was just that I felt kind of lost without a crew. Ah well, no point getting maudlin. Sammi; Never too many family stories…you’ve got the kind of big roistering mob I kind of wish I’d had…but if I’d had it, I probably wouldn’t have turned out me. FireMomma; It’s refreshing to hear from somebody who sees fire as a business and a practical thing…for me it’s fun and camaraderie and play-toy money (I’ve got checks from three fires to spend and waiting on three more…gonna get me something nice, but I’m not sure what yet). Most of us have the flames in our eyes so thoroughly we can’t see anything else. Like Mellie said…it’s way addictive. I find myself edging toward the 180 club myself (good term), but I’m resisting. Can’t just toss five years of school (well, you can, but I’m telling myself you can’t). Right now I’m doing rural-department vollie (which means structure, wildland, EMS, cats in trees, traffic control, anything you can think of and some things I hope you can’t think of) which is working out to about forty hours a week on top of my fifty-to-sixty hour a week ‘real’ job. My chief would love it if I quit my day gig to run his ambulance service, but like I said, I’m not ready for the 180 club just yet. TazGirl; Location is tough…by some kind of luck I wound up getting a job (sight unseen) in one of the most gorgeous places in the world. As far as getting dispatcher jobs with no experience…I don’t know how they expect you to get experience if they won’t hire inexperienced people. I would almost recommend calling individual offices and impressing them with your moxie, intelligence, and willingness to lay it on the line; that might get you more options than you’d have otherwise. Nerd on the Fireline
9/5	Never tired of the family antics Sammi. It sounds like you have a wonderful family. My extended family has dwindled so much over the years as everyone gets older and moves but I do miss those big, chaotic family gatherings. My dad had five siblings so between all my aunt, uncles and cousins we had a lot of fun. I guess now it's up to me and my brother to find a mate and have some kids of our own. I sure look forward to that... Since you can't "know then what you know now" any knowledge you pass along the way is the next best thing. So advice to us youngsters gladly accepted, just not necessarily always heeded. ;) Had a big night last night playing musical chairs w/ the Texas Rollergirls. One girl was scared because she was sittin' between my and my brother. Not two people you want to be in between in a competitive game...which for us, defines any and all games. They had this great old timey band that played the music for us. It was a lot of fun. And then afterwards we took my friend from Cali to a couple of good, local bars. I have only talked to my FF once in 8 days. I'm really feeling the distance. Man do we need some QT in a big way. I'm still pondering over all these future plans. I keep going back and forth on the dispatching idea. For the most part though I think I would still really like to do it. My concern is my a) lack of experience and b) the fact that I really might not be able to take the S130/190 in October due to work and other obligations. I guess I could take some classes somewhere in the spring, but that doesn't really help my application if I apply in Dec/Jan. And then there's the matter of where to apply. The BLM in Alaska says you do not need experience for temporary fire season dispatching. But the BLM in the lower 48 seems to be singing a different tune and says you do. So I'm confused. And I don't really think I should work out of Alaska because my FF and I are talking about being based out of Montana. I mean, he has a van that he sleeps in when he is working up there and his parents are there too. But I would not have a place to stay otherwise so how could I be based there? And being based out of Montana and having a place together, on the other hand, would mean a place to see each other on our occasional concurrent R&R days. Although it doesn't sound like I go out two weeks and then the two days off. It sounds like I work more of a 9 to 5-ish schedule. I dunno. Maybe firechat w/ Southern Loving will clear some of this up for me. Thanks for listening to the rambling. I would LOVE to set up a fire chat time. Do you all prefer mornings or evenings? Weekdays or weekends? My schedule is pretty open. I will have to look back and see what nights the TheySaid people talk about work n' stuff but week nights I think are best for me. How about a nice post-weekend Monday night chat? Or Wednesday? But I have to say those are my roller derby practice nights so it would have to be before 8 my time, which in the west would only be an hour earlier unless you are pacific. So there you have it. And Nerd, since you can't wear the fire boots in the 5K you could just dress up real goofy. They're having a costume contest for the weirdest. When you encourage Austin folks to be even weirder...it's almost frightening. Should be interesting. TazGirl
9/5	Hey all, Just wanted to check in and tell you I'm thinking about you. My husband got home yesterday morning. Came in and found him eating fried chicken at the counter in his birthday suit. Been kinds busy since then.... I'm in TOTAL support of a chat. Most anytime works for me. I would also love to get together with folks in our neck of the woods and would like to be put on the background email circuit. I'm totally comfortable with the majority of you folks knowing who I am. Many do already. Margaritas anyone? Northern Cal. is torching, as are other areas of the west...things are picking back up for us again. As fallers are trickling in, they're refueling, cleaning, repacking, and heading back out again. I'm definitely planning on taking full advantage while my man is home. (He loves the kitchen, by the way... ; ) He sat down at the computer this morning to order my new oven and range top....Yeee Ha! Sammi, your stories of your FF kids are wonderful. I have to say, I have not encouraged mine to follow their father's path. My hopes for them were that they would fly far, far away from firefighting for the agency their father worked for. In our young world, fire came first, families came about fifth. I raised my children alone. I'm sure that says more about the dysfunctionality of my former relationship. But, I saw the same behaviors taking place all around us. I'm not saying that I forbid my children seeking FF employment...I just never encouraged it. I tried very hard to observe their passions and provide the resources and opportunities I could to help them along their OWN chosen paths, and felt fortunate none of them felt passionately about fire. I will also say, however, that if ANY of them had (and I shudder watching my youngest in her life "play" activities...) expressed that interest I would have supported their wishes fully. I will do the same with my youngest daughter. (I guess her obsession with parasailing at age three might give some kind of indication...but I can only hope otherwise...). Why then, you might ask, am I a friggin' fire contractor? It has to do with the window of "down time" professional timber fallers have in the middle of the summer because of fire season. It's purely a survival issue...and has NOTHING to do with my love or admiration of fire or any fire organization. I am a business woman, a wife and a mother. Fighting fire is a business, not a passion for me. My passion lies in supporting my family, my husband...and now my roster of fallers. My passion lies in keeping them safe and fighting against the inherent safety factors that threaten them. That's it. Fire? Doesn't do anything for me, personally. Actually, when the scanner goes off, my gut reaction is to send it the way of the deceased TV. But, I don't. The fire arena is as hot as its ever been. Our prayers need to be constant. There are many, many, many hard working men and women out there. Ciao, Fire Momma
9/5	Sammi.... OH MY!! your stories are always so funny. I love hearing about your family antics. Your kids sound wonderful!! I am glad to hear you have your porch back. Hearing you talk about the pictures, I have one of our now 3 year old sitting in the yard, in a diaper with her dads fire gear around her. Of course we set it all up around her only because I don't let her play in his stuff. You never know what she might have come out chewing on. A fusee!! I also have a picture of her in his whites with his hat on... She is so fun when a camera comes out... :) Keep the stories coming... FireWife Also I am interested in the chat session...
9/5	Sammi, You can find out about my early beginnings in fire if you go back to the late 1999 theysaid archives and read forward. Yeah, right... That fall, after my 76 days of fighting fire in northern California, I came home and couldn't NOT think about fire for more than about 2 minutes at a time. It's the most amazing thing I've ever experienced, and am still experiencing. Fire and fire people changed my life that summer and I've been working in the fire world ever since. Original Ab and theysaid (Hickman, Old Fire Guy, Rochelle, Doug Campbell, WP, Pulaski, 6, Doorsmaurer, Dave, R5 Firecapt, Ramble, Firehorse, AZ Trailblazer, Tiny, Kelly, bcdavis, Maddog, MOC4546, Boo, Keith, LAVE, even my Nemesis, ie the so called CDF Engine Capt) and others who have become dear fire friends -- they took me under their wing then. My first motivations to understand the complex system of the fire world were for the safety of young people fighting fire and the issues (political and otherwise) of those pounding ground or leading groundpounders. I am indebted to FireWolf, Joe S, Hutch, Doug Campbell, John W., Lasagna, local FMOs and groundpounders, the fire trainers (CDF, local fire departments, FS) who taught the 5 month long class I took in spring 2000 -- they and theysaid taught and mentored me along. I didn't feel like so much of a PTSD freak when theysaiders pointed out that I'm a member of the "180 club", made up of those who forsake perfectly good career paths to join the firefighting community. Yeah, I did that. What I do with and for fire these days is not a job or a career. You could say it's a "calling". <chuckle> I'm a lost soul... or a soul focused on fire... depending on your definitions ... (enjoyed that description of heaven/hell, Nerd and Ab). Beyond that early beginning, I don't like to share specifics about myself or my history. I'd rather let people get to know me as my relationship with them unfolds - in person or via email and theysaid. Chances are we'll run into each other sometime, either on purpose or because the fire world is small. Familysaid is a good place for finding support and gaining insight... in a way it's similar to the support theysaid offered me. Don't let the "old Nemesis of the world" throw you off track. Pot stirrin' paranoia... BAH. What you have happening here is nothing less than MAGIC. Thanks to Sammi and Fire Momma for providing some solid advice and insight and humor -- and to TazGirl, Nerd, FireChica, Catskilldog, Heli Groupie, Hoosier, Dawn, Poet, Artista, Fire Wife, Robbie, Oregon Jewel, et al for the antics and energy of youth and/or the open seeking to understand the fire world and their relationships in and with it. Mellie
9/5	Hoosier, (chuckles, TY!) yes humidty is good to put down a fire IF there is wind bringing it at the right time & no storm brewing. human and machinery working a fire in hot temps is debilitating & humidity is more debilitating to the operator. in most western states off coast line normal summer humidity is in the teens or 20s in daytime. batteries: if not charged are just more useless baggage. sox: no wildland FF has enough clean ones if on the line for weeks. for sure the groundpounders want other clean "undies" too, and the right size and fiber content and pray if they didn't pack "good" batteries, they hope someone did. TY Hoosier; for sure not laughing AT you best wishes to you and family including the man (God and Spirits keep you all safe & sound) keep the faith Hoosier! NZ Mom
9/5	It has been an awesome day. Made some wonderful things happen and the world is happy. Went and got my hair done..no not orange, just highlighted. All the FF yardsale stuff is off the porch and I suppose back in the beds of the trucks where it lives. trucks are gone also. I WON!!!! A couple of the guys went out this afternoon so I am relatively safe for a couple of weeks. TAZ: you ask about our daughters. They are FF, not wildland. One is in the medical scene and the other one is doing structure and school. One of them did Wildland for a couple of seasons and decided she wanted to get married and be a mom so she switched her focus to structure/EMS, and she loves it. And she now has a son who is very interested in FF and is doing the explorer program. We kept telling her as soon as he found his niche in life he would excel. And he did and he does. And his grandpa is so proud he just glows....... These girls were always right in the mix with their brothers. They still will wrestle in the front yard and have hell-latious water fights. They will make chopping firewood a contest. And we do get more work done that way. I wish every one lived closer and we had more time together because all of them are a lot of fun and throw in wives and a husband and several kiddies and we have a bunch. (and thankfully they all get along so far..) After Taz asked abt them I was telling my partner about: when one was in first grade, one was in maybe 5th, one in 7th and one in 11th grade. Because we live so far out they all rode the same school bus. One day after school I got a call "Mrs. ------, you will have to come get your children they are not allowed on the bus"( now these kids had NEVER been in trouble on the bus) when I got to the school there they were all four of them sitting on the curb with two teachers and the principal standing guard over the little felons. Well, my first grader had been picked on by an older kid on the bus, my 5th grader jumped on that kid to save his little brothers life; my 7th grader got in the fray and stomped the other kids trying to interfere. The bus driver grabbed my 1st grader for instigating the whole thing and my 11 th grade "daughter" proceeded to take the bus driver out. So we had a riot on the school bus started by MY children........thank goodness everyone in the area knows us and knows all the kids in the area and it was not a pleasant experience for anyone but at least they were not arrested for assault. if I remember they were praised for taking up for each other but grounded for two life times for being disrespectful to the bus driver. And I know you are probably tired of the family antics.....but about three yrs ago we had a wedding and because it was a FF wedding everyone wore their dress uniforms. Not only did they bring the good stuff but they also brought their turnouts, the ones that do structure, others had their nomex. I took them up to dads fire dept and got a picture of all of our kids in their various uniforms standing by their dad in uniform sitting in the drivers seat of his favorite engine. But my favorite picture is them in their turnouts and nomex wrestling with dad on the grass with the engine in the background. Very impromptu moment but so special.......I really do envy those of you starting relationships and maybe families. I would do it over in a second if I could but only if I knew what I know now.....by the time we learn to parent they are gone.....ok enough of memory lane..... Are any of you interested in trying the chat thing Mellie explained......we need someone to come up with a time that fits as much as possible. Anyone volunteer to be the chat manager? mellie........can you give us a very general idea of what you do in FF like hotshot, medical, clerical, IC, weather.....we might have a bunch of questions......sammi If you decide on a time, we'll post lookout. Ab.
9/4	Dear Fire Friends, My FF has been home since Monday (happy, happy, joy, joy) so I've been a little slow getting to the list. I tried to catch up on as much as I could but you-all have been very busy posting, I would need a whole 2 hours to read it all. The house stories have had me in stitches too! As I was reading I thought about the big mess in the basement/family room. I think right now my daughter is sitting on a red bag surrounded by water bottles, a sleeping bag and other fire gear watching TV. For some reason his socks go everywhere when he comes home. Not to mention, as you-all did, the batteries that are all over the house. What is it with FF and batteries? The more the better? However, I do understand safety. Can't radio in if you don't have batteries that work. Safety is why I do not move any fire stuff! However, I did think about leaving a note about not cooking dinner (I thought that was a good one) if it was not't picked up, but HE is cooking dinner tonight so I WILL NOT complain :). Thanks everyone for the humor, the poetry, the art work and the support. I can't remember who said it, but a line someone posted here went something like..."we are in their lives because we are grown up and strong. If we were not they would not't be with us." I remember that when I get angry with the whole situation and I realize what a complement it is that my FF thinks of me as STRONG! Hoosier PS the humidity in Hoosier country has broken!!!! Hope that means that humidity in the west is up?!?!?!
9/4	Hi Robbie, I do have that on my "to read" list, looking at parallels between the military, post 9/11, and what has become our "all risk" fire force. I'm reading it with an eye on at what might make both "essentially governmental" and how that might mitigate competitive outsourcing for fire. Now aren't you sorry you asked! Mellie
9/4	Okay, my case of foot-in-mouth disease seems to have broken out again. I meant “girly” as in “girlish” as in TeenPeople, Seventeen, Cosmo, not as in “chicks without clothes”…no suggestive magazines, just embarrassing ones. The AARP magazine “Old and Lively” or whatever it is (I really don’t remember) would work about as well, but it’s not nearly as good for reading aloud in the crummy as hair and make-up tips. TazGirl; I am again in awe of your energy…as for 5K in fire boots…My car broke down once and I wound up walking about 8 miles back to town in my caving boots (which are better designed for such things than my fire boots)…asphalt is bad. I am not a city girl. My weekend plans sound so unambitious…salsa dancing, EMT class, and a little sleeping in. As for ribbing crewmates…my experience comes from getting more than my share of grief and having to dish it right back. Both my wildland and my structure crews are developing for reputations for seriously high smart aleck (self-edited; the word I wanted to use ain’t polite) quotient. I mean, even by wildland fire standards. Another Nemesis; I really didn’t read your post as being hostile…I agree with you as far as being careful to protect our privacy and that of our loved ones. I also think your point about regional perspectives was a good one. Names, well, I made the mistake of saying what I did for a living (for those who don’t know me, I’m a vollie) on TheySaid and some of the most amazing nasty hostility came out of the woodwork. Not anybody really trying to be mean, just misinformed; and some of the comments came rather too close to home. The Abs (probably wisely) censored my (very long) response. Really, on this site, we’re here as FF and supporters of FF…that’s kind of all that should need to be said, identity-wise. Nerd on the Fireline Clearly that Ab has not looked at a Cosmo in his life. ~haw, haw~ But if the Magazines Cop could make a court case out of Cosmo, I'm sure she would. Readers, if your post doesn't get posted, please write back and ask why. Could be we never got it or it's gone into the spam filter. I always communicate with those rare people whose posts I reject, usually with a suggestion about how to rewrite them if the poster so desires. Don't remember censoring one from you, Nerd. If I did, it was probably our loss. Ab.
9/4	Nerd, faux pas...I had it as a spelling question in a fierce game of Cranium over the weekend. Sammi, your boys and husband sound like quite the troublemakers. Things must always be pretty lively around your household. I hope to have a family w/ such a great sense of humor some day. The way you tell your stories I have a great mental picture of it all. I love it when people are willing to go to far lengths for a laugh...it just makes it that much funnier. How do or how have your daughters always fit into this mix? Are they pranksters as well? I have one older brother that is my best friend and we share endless laughs, but I always wished I had more siblings. Still do... Would've distracted my parents a lot more too when I was a teenager. ;) Your ideas were great Nerd. You have quite the insight on how to earn plenty of ribbing from crewmates. And just to keep you posted on my fitness progress, I have upped my sit-ups from 20 to 30 as of yesterday! Woo-hoo! My friend that's doing this music video gets in at 1:00 today from L.A. My room is clean. My car is clean. And I even put up some pictures and what nots on my bedroom wall. I moved in a couple of months ago and the walls have been virtually blank. So it feels great to have some things done that I've been meaning to do for a while. I cleaned my car for an hour yesterday trying to get rid of all the dog hair and sweat was just dripping off the end of my nose. Can you say h-u-m-i-d-i-t-y?! I also coached roller derby practice last night and made 'em skate their little butts off...some of 'em not so little. Heh, heh...mine included. Wish I had one of you gals to be my buddy this very active weekend. There's musical chairs Thursday night, Twister Friday night and the Keep Austin Weird 5K on Saturday that I'm skating. I bet Nerd could run it in her fire boots....and would. And along the way you can stop at the donuts 'n bacon booth, ice cream booth and beer booth. Keepin' it weird... Over n' out, TazGirl ***Sammi, I do not have an orange mohawk (*grin, snicker*) but thanks for the inspiration. I am considering a new do after all. You could get a grey mohawk...now there's a prank for your boys and especially husband.
9/4	Sammi... Thanks for your response to Nemesis. The post from him/her really bothered me. I had an hour long drive yesterday to my new job and all I could think about was Nemesis' post. My reaction was one of fear and anger. Fear that someone would single someone out on a forum that was meant to support people and their problems, and angered that someone would even suggest that anyone on this board including the Abs would jeopardize our loved ones' identities through a lack of discretion. Since, I have experienced the help of the Abs in relation to getting out a message while still maintaining my anonymity, I can vouch for their thoughtfulness and expertise on this subject. So, thanks again, Sammi & Abs. Heli Groupie Heli Groupie, you know, I debated putting up the post from Another Nemesis as it appeared to me to border on intimidating -- and this in a forum that is geared toward support. Then I thought, why not educate the person? The person can clearly do no actual harm here and maybe they're just unaware of how we operate. I thank you and Sammi for your generous and honest replies, quite in contrast to the tone Another Nemesis projects, intentional or not. Ab.
9/4	Mellie, If I may ask a personal question, are you really reading that military publication? Does it relate to firefighters? If you don't want to answer this, don't. Robbie
9/4	I read and re-read Nemesis post today (yesterday) and I truly welcome his/her input and observations. Most of my family has been around this week and we are having a good time enjoying each others company.....but I want to get serious here for a few. I have been a part of family Said since the beginning. I have no idea who Ab's, Abby, Mellie, Hoosier and the other members are in real life. And for me it doesn't matter.....I have learned over the years I can trust Abs and Abbys with my writings and they will suggest waiting to post, or changing something or several times they have changed names that I had already changed, just to help me get my point across at a better time or to protect my family's identity. I have posted a few times from my work computer, and that is no problem except there is no doubt Abs knew immediately what my employment is. And it is such that I have to be anonymous......for my protection not my embarrassment. (they might delete that and that's ok.) MY family is my life and my kids are the best and we would do anything to protect them. No way is mom going to chance harming them by my writings. This list is Abs child and they will protect it.....I have complete confidence in the Abs and Abbey to help us all maintain the confidentially we need to continue this list. Without the confidentiality They Said and Family would fold. (and Nemesis ----I have a very good handle on confidentiality ----work with it every day) We can be a powerful force for the good of FF, and as family we have a huge investment in their safety and security. But, we have to be assertive enough to speak out and be heard. When we were actively trying to get attention for the new shelters the Abs were a huge help in directing us to possible sources of info when needed, and passing private e-mails to people as needed. They also helped us stay away from making fupaws (?) that would be embarrassing to us and the list. I have been around FF for a lot of years and as Abby wrote to Nemesis, I know the Abs are not going to do anything to jeopardize this list. All the mostly gals that are on the list now are awesome and hopefully we will keep growing because we need each other. Already we are hearing of good results in relationships from our rambling advice and support. We have poets, mothers of young ones, moms of shots, horse trainers, roller derby queen in a skirt, artist, a mom that needed to get a message to her shot-son, and the list goes on and on. But regardless of what we do for employment, we all have a FF in our hearts and that makes us sisters (and brothers) The younger women on the list are as accepting of me and my grey hair as I am of them. And quite frankly this summer has gone by much faster and happier than any I can remember, because we have a connection and we all have mentioned how we look forward to reading the list whenever we can. Whether we have grey hair or orange Mohawks we have accepted each other and I want you all to consider your selves hugged. and Nemesis---stick around we need ya......sammi
9/4	Ideas for Sammi: Ah, Sammi…a few ideas 1. Really silly girly magazines rolled up in the bottoms of their sleeping bags…nothing funnier than a big macho guy trying explain how he got a Cosmo in his bedroll. Try Lowrider magazine for the girls. 2. Chow Mein noodles…in line packs, sleeping bags, red bags. You keep finding them FOREVER. Raisins are worse, but more destructive. Styrofoam packing popcorn has many possibilities too, but it doesn’t prickle and itch in a sleeping bag. 3. Sew their names into their underwear. If anybody on their crew finds out, they’ll never live it down. 4. If you pack lunches for them when they head back out again…find all that goofy silly kid food, like the blue pudding and the lunchables in weird shapes, with sippy cups and little spoons shaped like animals, you know, all the stuff grown-ups would never be caught dead eating. Very, very good for earning crew ribbing, and do you know how frustrating it is trying to drink out of a sippy cup if you’re more than three feet tall? 5. Perfume. Many, many possibilities. Sleeping bags, packed yellers…you open ‘em up and just get a waft of scent. Again, hard to miss, easy to get teased about. I almost didn’t put this down because perfume is flammable and might not be good on yellers, but it should volatilize off just about instantaneously so it shouldn’t be a hazard. A guy on a neighboring department got burned because of fabric softener on his bunkers, though…I’ve always had a prejudice against fabric softener. What I’d do too is slip a note into a weather kit or fireline handbook claiming responsibility and stating the cause-and-effect relationship. Nerd on the Fireline Please skip the suggestive magazines prank or you may have the "magazines cop" down on you. You could really get your folks into trouble, like lawsuit trouble, if she gets wind of them. Ab.
9/3	You guys will be so proud of me....nerdy...I did not surrender.....I left a big note on the house message board that politely said "all, and I mean all equipment, clothing, tools, footwear, EVERYTHING that pertains to ff will be cleaned and out of the house by the time I get home from work or I am not cooking the fried chicken all of you requested!!!!!!'. well they did it, all of their gear is out of the house and laying and hanging over every chair, swing and banister on my front porch......I had to smile at it though because I could see they actually took their time to strategically place the stuff so there is no place to sit and we had to step over some of it to get in the house..... like I could miss it....whole place looks like a ff yard sale. One of them got down a huge 4 foot teddy bear we had in the attic, they put an old dirty, stained ragged turnout coat on him and sat him in my favorite rocker. Times like this I am so grateful my house and yard cannot be seen from the road. I bet they had a briefing this am, got the weather report then planned the attack on my porch.......and dad drew the swing because all his gear was neatly lined up covering the whole thing with his hard hat on top like a crown......I really do enjoy them and they do keep us laughing. How can you be mad at people that are so determined to have fun in life? except that when they are home they use me as the victim.....so tomorrow I will not be surprised if I come home and all the gear is on the roof. Don't tell them I said that.....wish I had thought to get a picture.....this has turned into "lets get mom"....and dad is helping them, turncoat! If I had some help I could come home early and take all their stuff and hide it and leave and they would never know it was me.....oh they would be so unhappy, thinking the propane man stole all their gear.....really the propane man is very reliable he is the only one that comes around....I need some ideas on how to pay them back but they won't know it until they are back out on the fires......that way I won't have to run to save my life...sammi
9/3	Poet, nice poem, Fire chat is our chat room on wildlandfire.com. See the little button in the header... It's not just any old kind of "chat" room although Ab says he has surprised a few people in there making out from time to time. (Just kidding about the making out, not about the surprising people...) Usually we try to stick to fire questions and discussion of current fire issues. People are often more open and on-the-fly there than on theysaid. Sometimes we have a set topic we discuss that relates to safety, politics, FWFSA, interagency issues. Occasionally those discussions or Q & As are summarized for theysaid. I have done a few of those summaries. Sometimes people bring their fire issues to firechat and we discuss those or young people come and ask jobs questions. Yeah, and sometimes contractors come and try to recruit if they can get away with it. The Abs do not promote that, but it may happen time to time. During non-fire season there are some regulars who come when we're all not too busy. Hunter is one. <smooch> It's a good place to get to know people better. Some folks who never post on theysaid come to firechat. Often the younger set as the night goes on. If we're kicked back and chatting, the alcohol can flow. Hickman is good with the virtual spirits. After all, no one is driving anywhere. You can post links to photos etc, to all or on a private message line, letting good friends see what you look like, sharing an email address, agreeing to meet later in a quieter time on the chat site. It's nice, informal. I helped with the monitoring last season. Monitoring can be a burnout for the Abs. Time consuming. But it is fun. Often easterners get on early evening and stay as late as they can keep their eyes open and westerners come on a bit later. We have one regular vollie - Shep- from the midwest who used to hang out in the mornings to see if anyone stopped by. I enjoyed visiting with him. Hope he does it again. It's a good place to learn about issues and meet those who post to theysaid (and now familysaid) and those who lurk. Some people use different firechat monikers than their posting monikers to maintain anonymity. I'm sure you on familysaid could pick a night or afternoon to gather if you want to try it out or pick a regular time every week. Maybe a time when the younger folks want to visit. You're also welcome to come when fire is the main topic. Often that's a Wed, Th or Friday, sometimes Saturday night at 7PM west coast time. If you want to set something up ahead of time with short or longer notice, Ab would probably be willing to put up an announcement on familysaid or theysaid that people are gathering. The first person gets there and just waits. The chat page lists who is chatting. When people see who's there, they come on in. You need to register your moniker before you enter, but that's no big deal. Did I cover it Ab? Mellie You did. Thanks, Mellie. A few more rules: No cursing, bullying or personal attacks allowed. Fun is OK, we welcome it. We try to keep difficult topics on issues, not personalities, even if you decide you don't like someone, you gotta be civil. That's about it. I also enjoy monitoring/participating when I have time. Right now when many are off on fire might be a good time for this crew on familysaid to try out the facility. Ab.
9/3	Sammi.... The story about your house had me in stitches... I was reading it to my husband as he was getting ready for work this morning... It is so true... When he comes home from a two weeker there are clothes everywhere, red bags and things all over. IT is bad enough that the house reeks of smoke but then we have to get all those nasty clothes cleaned and repacked just incase that phone rings!! Even though the house may look like a river of fire gear, I know you are glad they are home and safe!! FireWife
9/3	Another poem: ****************** How do you explain To family and friend The love we have for these Firefighting men? They see only the pain The loneliness in our eyes They see he's not there And grill us with "whys?' Why do we love them When we're left home alone? Why do we still care When they can't even phone? The fire that burns In their hearts and their eyes Also burns in our hearts And THAT answers the "Whys" Families, although separated Are not families apart Together we stand On a foundation of HEART. For love it does bind us Together or away It is the faith in this truth That gets us through each day. *********************************** And a few more lines just to let you all on FamilySaid know how I feel about you! Firefighter families understand. The same thing they go through For this I do respect And appreciate all of you! I am just at the beginning Of this thing with my man. With your help and understanding, THRIVE? I sure can! *************************** Hope all is well with all of you. Poet Mellie and Abs, what is Firechat?
9/3	Sammi! Don’t you DARE surrender! You’re one of my heroes (I had a hard time riding herd on one FF, let alone as many as you’ve got)! (laughing) Then I look around my living room and realize how much detritus is still in place from the aftermath of my last (several) fires…my couch is untenable because it’s currently got my red bag, assorted rescue gear, and, yeah, about a square yard of batteries on it, getting from my kitchen to bathroom is a logistical challenge because of the narrowness of the path between my line pack, my SAR pack, and various tools…I wouldn’t wish me on anybody else, so I understand where you’re coming from. When I decide I’m hopeless, I just leave…I don’t really have to live with me. That’s probably why my house doesn’t get cleaned. For the record, my line pack and red bag are impeccably organized and ready to go. Book wise, I highly recommend anything by Gerald Durell…especially “My Family and Other Animals”. Puts family problems in perspective, and does so most amusingly. At least fire-mania is hard to bring in the house… Nerd on the Fireline
9/3	Mellie, I can certainly see how the chapter on a "Paradigm shift on force planning" in your recommended reading might have personal applicability in my household. ; ) Things are heating up on the home front in terms of fire danger. My fallers are trickling home, but I doubt they'll be home long. Sammi, Your observations on driving accidents suggest the need for an indepth look at accident profiles that have occurred in relation to fire over the past few years. Such a study...and corresponding policy changes, should be co-sponsored by both land management agencies and the private fire contracting industry. First though, observations and trends need to be substantiated by fact and statistics. Then, proposed changes have more ground to stand on. I'm going to look around and see what I can find. There's a new fire grant cycle coming around. Hmmmm. Fire Momma
9/3	The good thoughts and juju all of you sent me worked. I got the call last night! My friend and I were sitting on my back deck chatting and winding down when he called. When the phone rang, I told my friend "oh, I hope that's him, it's been five days." And turned out it was so she said she was about to leave anyway and not to worry about it. She said she completely understood. It's nice to have friends like that. And really, if she had just gotten there I would've been more accommodating. So I sat outside while we chatted for what was probably an hour or so. We got to talk so long b/c he was in a motel for the night. It was kind of their make-up for being spiked out for so long w/ no personal gear. He said they hiked three hours to get into town and he was exhausted. So it wasn't the liveliest discussion I was hoping for. But I'll tell you what...if it weren't for all the advice I've heard through this message board over the summer, I probably would've reacted differently. I reminded myself of what you all say about not taking things personally b/c they really are just dead tired and to keep things light. I prodded him a little about being a smart aleck and pokin' a little too much fun when all I really wanted to hear after five days was all the sweet stuff. That's when his gears switched and he said "well babe, I just walked six miles and I thought about you for 5 and three qtrs...so yeah, I've been thinking about you." It's funny when I hear everyone say their SO's want to talk about fire and their job b/c he is so opposite. I was bringing up some piece of news or another re: fire and he said in a nice way that he did not want to talk about work. He's pretty burnt out. I'm sure they're all starting to feel that way this time of year. He just wants to play golf. I told him he could play until his heart's content while he is here and I'm at work. They were going to spike out again today so it will be a few more days of no communication. That's alright, I got my fill last night for a few. It's hard to connect sometimes when our worlds right now are so far apart. I feel kinda silly and frivolous telling him all the fun things I did over Labor Day while he...labored. In other good news, I have located a monkey. I need a monkey for this music video and after some bizarre phone calls, found a few even. And I thoroughly cleaned my room and did some organizing last night too. It feels good to be a little more productive. Nerd and FireChica, I ran again last night w/ a friend. I already notice the difference. We ran about 10 min. longer and I was out walking/jogging for a full hour just about. And my crunches and sit-ups are feeling stronger too. I'm gettin' good at those push ups. The S130/190 class is still up in the air for October. It's a combo of getting off work and some trepidation on my part...and maybe partly question of necessity. We'll see. Sammi, You're story of your boys and husband are hilarious. I'm sure you don't find them as funny but more annoying rather. But I can just picture it and it is quite the hoot. Talk about FF in the blood! More absurd stories appreciated. Congratulations HeliGroupie!!!! I should probably do a little work now... TazGirl
9/3	Fire Momma, How about the Quadrennial Defense Review Report (September 30, 2001)? Honestly, I haven't read anything memorable all summer. No time. Fire season, ya know. I do have some "fluff" novels handy in case of a sleepless night, but haven't begun one of those either. Last good non-fire book I read last spring was Girl with a Pearl Earring by Tracy Chevalier. I did like Prodigal Summer when I read it several springs ago. Hugs back Hunter. I miss you, man. Not enough firefighters/others around nor time for firechat to be up and running. I'm looking forward to resuming our Wednesday, Thursday, Friday firechat nights in the fall. Guess Thursdays were the best. Be thinking up some good fire issues. Maybe some evening could be designated fire family chat night if folks wanted. Mellie Sure, that's possible. Ab.
9/3	Hey everyone, Today I start a new job. Finally have to get off my butt and work again. Darn it anyway. I was kind of getting into this life of leisure. My SO should be happy though, since everytime he'd call he'd ask me if I'd been called by my new employer yet. I can tell he's getting anxious about fire season ending and having to exist on a base salary again. I sympathize with him, but it sure was nice to get to spend the summer at home with my daughter, plus be available to go do something when he had R&R. Sammi & Nerd **** I just had to laugh about the decompression stage of a FF when he comes home. Mine does it even on R&R. He must spend the first 2 or 3 hours he's home scouring the house looking for what's out of place or not done. Then he'll make some comment about me having 2 weeks to get this or that done and can't believe I didn't do it. He's ex-military turned FF, can you tell? TazGirl **** Hope your guy called last night. I was sending good thoughts and wishes all day, hope it helped. Write and report, inquiring minds want to know. Have a great day everyone, and take care Heli Groupie
9/3	Thanks All for the welcome. I was stuck within a half-hour reach of my dispatch center this weekend -- not a fun chain to be stuck to, i'll tell you that, so I'm happy so many of you went out and had fun. Congrats to Heli Groupie on the new ice! Fire Momma, you were asking for some book recommendations? I highly recommend both "Good in Bed" and "In her shoes" by Jennifer Weiner. Very good books about family and love and "real" women trying to find their way in the world ... both will make you laugh and maybe cry (if you tend towards crying about books, which i do.) -aly
9/3	Oh my gosh nerdy you are sooooo right on. If you go out in my drive right now there are two pickups and one car all backed in...then there is one little Land Rover pulled straight in between the backwards pickups......I have been living this way so long I never even noticed. Guess who the Rover belongs to? I got home from work this pm...left early because of the smoke, headache, and my huge front deck is covered in red packs, boots, hard hats and I have tents and sleeping bags hanging on everything horizontal in the FRONT yard...they hid all their stuff in their trucks till I left for work today....I come in the front door and am blasted by radios all over the place toning every emergency in the world. Mind you, my husband and a herd of the sons got home last night....as I am walking in the door today, the tones are going off and my sweet adorable husband says "would you mind if I went on that call?" he decided maybe that wasn't such a good idea......smart man!!!!! The laundry room is a field of yellow and green with some tan thrown in. And then my bed, get that MY BED, is covered in 5000000000000000 batteries they are testing to see which ones are still good........am I wrong here or do I need to move to the 5th wheel and let the FF's have the house? It is the invasion of the firefighters.....and I am losing the battle. Send Spock and beam me up Scotty I surrender. I am fixing to kick my chicks out and shove the batteries on the floor and go to bed.....is that child abuse????? sammi
9/3	Glad to see folks are back in chattin'. Sammi...yeah, black. It's actually turning out awesome. Before doing something that drastic, I thought a lot about the light factor and what I wanted to accomplish. And the fact I wouldn't actually be able to remodel my kitchen for another three years at least. The important thing was that, although I used black, I also used a slate gray underneath the crackle. I also used a high sheen clear overcoat for reflection, which actually bounces a lot of light around. I enjoy playing with color, texture and light to create illusion. You're right, the rough sawn aspect of your log home is the main reason it may seem like a "light vacuum." If you walk into a log home with "buckskin" logs, the feel is entirely different. The reason, the slight sheen bounces light around...and its reflective properties "create" light. Tonight I was sitting out on the back deck watching the moon rise. I realized I was smelling the night blooming tobacco (ornamental). It's one of those "perfect temperature nights," ... you know where you walk out, stop, and say..."Wow, this is a perfect temperature." Today was my little one's first day at school. She stayed in third grade again, which she was not happy about. Last year we struggled with her kidney disease and so, she lost a lot of valuable school time. Although today (to her) I'm the stupidest creature on the planet for having her repeat the grade, I'm hoping spending this year getting caught up academically will help her in the long run. After the school day was over, she didn't seem too rough for the wear. I took her for pizza and bought school clothes to sooth her social wounds. Seemed to work. On the topic of returning firefighting SOs...well, all I have to say is prepare your sense of humor. Keep it light. Just got the call tonight that mine was headed home Thursday. Ciao, Fire Momma
9/3	Sammi, I cried when I read your post tonight on "They Said" regarding the van accident last week. Every time one of these incidents happens it brings back a flood of memories from when I was in college and had to attend my first funerals after a van accident killed a couple of the kids that I had grown up with on our wrestling team. Back then the vans didn't even have seatbelts as standard equipment. Driver training, mandatory seat belt usage, safe vehicles, fatigue, adrenaline, miles on the road...all of these are risk factors. I wish there were easy answers to prevent this from happening again. Oregon Jewel
9/3	It isn't that the pain and confusion posted in Family Chat isn't recognized, maybe some posters have an important perspective on the wildfire FF lifestyle and community after so many years. relationships die, not only in a WF family, also the military, and just plain NORMAL city life; often for misguided/silly reasons is a fact of life. WildlandFire website offers links unprecedented elsewhere - links about wildland FF lifestyle, & many opportunities to better educate ourselves about current issues. Recently it appears the new-to-fire stopped giving names and places in their requests for insight; that is a good thing. Still, some posts should be reconsidered before hitting that too easy send button (including mine). never forget, what is not seen on this FS screen today will be archived - do not embarrass your loved one by posting hastily. not only can your SO read what was posted, as one of the Abs pointed out recently: so can the media! that is when I put on a new hard hat & taped my fingers, before some family members read the archives and hit me upside the head. Another issue all need to keep foremost in mind is the fact that many of us live in other parts of the USA and posters have experience with various fire suppression perspectives... AK is way diff than FL, NM is way diff than east coast, etc. be it urban interface or total wildland, be it as contract, volly, local, state or feds, it is still wildfire with a diff twist. those who have been quick to misinterpret posts from a different perspective often attack, or are too focused to heed advice that may be important tomorrow or next year for their situation; sad if we don't learn from one another. (the Aussies and NZ have again been invited to help us, so too have the Canuks and our military - read the NIFC daily sit report.) <pray that there will be no more accidents and everyone's loved ones come home safe & sound after the dragon goes to bed. ... if it is your SO, give him or her time to unload and unwind. pacing at odd hours or repacking a red bag is not necessarily weird, neither is telling war stories when hoisting brews. YOU be the designated sober driver! FYI, there were wildland fires in so cal last January. Nemesis (Not the Original Nemesis of course.) Another Nemesis, I think that everything shared here is alright. We Abs work at keeping people "safe" on theysaid or familysaid. I don't think anyone's identity is at risk on either forum. Familysaid is an experiment just as theysaid was in the beginning. There have been emails back and forth behind the scenes when issues of sharing too much "identity" come up. There have occasionally even been changes here in specifics details like SOs names and the number of children, etc to protect familysaid posters. No changes in essentials, just very minor things. The fun had here is not at the expense of posters' SOs. It's people figuring out how relationships work and forging fire season support friendships. And you're right, some firefighter relationships will not work anyway. That's OK. Life is a process of discovering what will work. I think you can leave the "protecting" to the Abs. We aim to do it. (And I haven't heard any attacks here.) On the other hand, if people want to email behind the scenes and plan a get together, etc we think that's natural. To our way of thinking, sharing information and feeling part of a group with common interests relieves the stress. As far as the press scrutiny goes, posters are aware of that too, or we make them aware. Timing is everything and we balance that with free speech. My thanks to Sammi for her honest thoughts on theysaid and for her willingness to follow our request on timing. Her thoughts mirrored thoughts that crossed my mind as well. She has extensive experience with youth. What she said needed to be said, why not by a person who knows both firefighting and youth so well? Thank you Sammi. Ab.
9/3	Fire Momma, I have been laid up for a while due to surgery on my arse kicking foot. I have been passing the time reading. "Can't put it down" books I recommend by Nelson DeMelle: The Generals Daughter, The Charm School, Up Country, The Gold Coast, Spencerville, The Lions Game, Plum Island, Word Of Honor. I would think all these are available in the library near you. All his books involve a lot of action, and lengthy dialog between the main male character, and a smart female type. Good reading for you and your SO. Hunter PS: Hugs Mellie!!!!
9/2	Sammi (laughing)… Yeah, I used to deal with that a lot, with my (former) FF… the inability to go anywhere without a pack (and the insistence that I do the same), the inability to simply pull forward into a parking spot (gotta back in!)... I grew up on field crews (of various types); I’ve been out for up to six weeks at a time living out of tent, and yeah, it does skew your perspective. But if those around can recognize the effect, any reasonably introspective FF should be able to recognize the tendencies in themselves and correct for the ‘reality factor’. In all seriousness, though…FFs tend to be very highly trained creatures, so we react, just like members of the military, with training first and logic later. One of the reasons I recommend taking fire classes to SOs of FFs; if he or she can’t seem to function without a pack and a tool, or walk side-by-side instead of single file, well, yeah, we’re freaks, but we’re freaks for a reason. Nerd on the Fireline
9/2	On lunchbreak here......Hi Robbie now that you remind me I certainly do remember you. I'm slow ya know so my computer chips are full and don't spit out info like they should. I'm glad you were around to keep abs company over the weekend. Most of us bailed so things were quiet around family said. I just called home and all my guys packed up early and went their merry way. well all but their dad....which brings me to a touchy subject around my house. When the guys or gals come home off fires they seem to go thru a decompression stage. I think the military has special support groups for the people left behind to know how to handle this "returning to reality syndrome". For instance.....if the silverwear drawer is not arranged to the returning FF liking then he should have stayed home and monitored it. And if the returning FF doesn't think the yard has been watered enough then water it yourself.......it has been a very long time since my FF has acted this way and I am liberated enough now- I am gonna punch his lights out. So if any of you want to know my identity on the next rotation look for the tall guy with a black eye, he will be mine. I realize being away from civilization for two weeks or longer gives a skewed view of life and it probably does take some time to acclimate back to civilization but why can't they wait till at least the next afternoon before they start pointing out all the horrible things we did or did not do......don't ya think he would be grateful we didn't wreck the car in Canada? Nope not at all....and to make matters worse I laugh at him and he really does not like that. So yea I'm guilty of pushing his buttons. But I need at least a month to get use to having the fork and spoon patrol home and on duty..........maybe I will hide all the silverwear and dig out the picnic plastic......I can be sooooo bad......sammi
9/2	Hey Taz… Yeah, I was pretty incommunicado this past weekend…Labor day is right when you’re on an ambulance squad. Not to sour anybody’s day, but I favor public flogging for anybody who hits someone who can’t or won’t hit back. Enough of the dark stuff…here’s good juju heading you way, may your phone ring, his cell service be good, and his mood be buoyant. Heli Groupie… Congrats! Sounds like, commitment phobia or not, your guy knows a good thing when he’s got it. Besides, ice is nice, especially coming form somebody properly appreciative, right? Robbie… (laughing) I think you had most of us convinced you were male…ah, the joy of androgynous monikers, que no? Nemesis… You nailed it. Especially about the fireplace, but given a few ‘errors’ I’ve made in the past, I wouldn’t make that a gender-specific phenomenon. Everybody… Back when I was in school, my roomie and I were frequently called ‘feral’ (as opposed to domestic)…but all these home improvement projects are giving me the odd urge to fix my place up…I actually bought curtain material the other day. You’re all a very bad influence (laughing). Nerd on the Fireline
9/2	Heli Groupie... Well congrats on the ring anyway!! It is great that he has taken a step. And the piece of paper isn't that important. FireWife
9/2	TazGirl and All, Yep, got a ring! The business hand would be the left hand. No, it's not an engagement ring. Since we live together, it's more like a commitment ring. He's got a marriage hangup, so this is a big step for him. But who knows, maybe one of these days he'll get over his phobia. LOL Heli Groupie
9/2	Hello... Dawn... it sounds like there are a few of us in the same area... FireMomma, Oregon Jewel and us... we should all get together for a BBQ... you can email ab and get my address... (is this ok ab?? ) would love to make friends around here... FireMomma... I think you would love Crater- hope you get to go soon!! Congrats on the empty house!! HeliGroupie.... Congrats on the Ice!! Does this mean engagement or just new rocks?? Let us know!! FireWife
9/2	Sounds like everyone had a great weekend. Especially you Sammi. What a great welcome to come home to after your fun weekend. And HeliGroupie, WOW! A ring huh? Call me silly, but what exactly does your 'business' hand mean? Are you engaged or the proud new owner of a gorgeous ring or what? Need more details... It's hard to live vicariously w/o enough details. ;) Well I must say I am quite envious of everyone that has their SO's at home. Fire season is not quite over for my FF. And I'm gettin' pretty antsy and cranky because I haven't heard from him since last Thursday afternoon. And the longer it goes, the more I get my hopes up that tonight is the night he will call, so then I am just that much more disappointed. I know. Silly right? I'm assuming they have either been spiked out this whole time, or his cell phone is dead or there is no coverage at fire camp. I don't imagine the fire is big enough to have phones. There are only four crews and about 200 people total. I'm going to write him a letter and send him a package and maybe that will make me feel better. But go ahead and send me some juju anyway that he will call tonight and I can write here tomorrow w/ lifted spirits. I have a visitor coming to visit (I think I mentioned already) on Thursday so I will be plenty busy cleaning up my house a bit for that. I have a new project to start on too and I'm also coaching derby tomorrow night. So I won't have too much time to mope around. Nerd, where are ya? We haven't heard from you since the weekend? Temperatures are cooling off here right now. It is wonderful... TazGirl
9/2	Black kitchens? (just curious) How do you get enough light to see things well. Our house is log...rough cut. Inside and out. So one of my problems has been getting enough light inside. The logs seem to absorb the light so I have concealed fluoresce lights all over the place. It's very cozy when you want it to be but there are times I wish for lighter walls, like when my plants die from light deprivation. and try hanging pictures etc in a log house......sammi
9/2	Hi Sammi, I'm Roberta, Robbie for short. My younger sister is a hotshot and I follow her doings and support her firefighting. I have been posting to familysaid for almost as long as you, just not so frequently. My sister still out there somewhere, lovin it I'm sure, but probably tired. TazGirl Mosaics are fun, I would imagine. I did a big "mosaic" this weekend. I haven't gotten around to grouting it yet, but I got it up. I did the tub surround and the small attached bench on our new bathroom addition. In anticipation I had made the tiles for some of it. I fit them into the larger "artwork". Since they are 5 sided featuring native american designs, it involved a lot of cutting and piecing surrounding tiles. I am game for getting the bathroom done. Tired of the scorpions who seem to creep in through the plumbing.... (Although I secretly love it when one freaks out a city slicker visitor.) Robbie
9/2	To everyone who responded about my painting: Thank you so much for all the compliments and kind words! Please pat yourselves on the back, this painting was truly inspired by all of you. To answer some of your questions: Yes, I do art professionally. But it is primarily graphic art that I make my living on. My whole family does art with the exception of my mother - who says she can't draw a stick figure. There are only two of us in the family however who make a living in the art field. I have been drawing and painting all my life. I don't recall a time that I wasn't. It was my mom's best babysitter - a stack of paper and a pencil! This is my first fire painting, but I enjoyed it so much I'm already starting another. It's going to be depicting "THE DRAGON". I'd love to share it with you when I get it done. I have never done anything abstract. I really like abstract art but I have never conquered the ability to loosen up. One of my old art teachers once laughed and said I was a lost cause when painting with watercolor because I always wanted to control it. He happened to be an exceptional watercolorist. In the past, I have mostly painted portraits - people and animals - on commission. My job has taken me away from painting the last few years and this painting is the first one I have done in three years. So, thanks again to all of you - you jumpstarted me into painting again! Tonya, If I were you I wouldn't feel jealous at all. I can't imagine what could be more fun for a firefighter than a woman who could blow things up. Just imagine the possibilities of doing your own fire behavior experiments in the kitchen during the winter months! Thanks again everyone, Artista (Lurker) PS. Ab's thanks for the new handle. Welcome back Artista. Ab.
9/2	Hey Everyone! Hope all of you had a nice holiday weekend. Our town celebrates Labor Day in a big way, so it was crazy here. I usually try to avoid it all by getting out of town, but my daughter wanted to stay and take in the festivities. I've been going nuts waiting for the weekend to get over so I could get back online and back to Family Said. I wonder if there's a 12 Step Program for this? My SO got R&R just before the weekend started so it seems like ages since I've been back to Family Said. Although I did sneak a peek at the postings while he was sleeping! BIG NEWS on my end! My SO surprised me with a trip to the jewelry store when he got home! So now I'm sporting Ice on the business hand! I'm so jacked! FireMomma: Sounds like the kitchen is awesome! I love black kitchens, my sister-in-law did her kitchen black also and it looks great. I gave our bedroom a facelift about a month ago. It has been powder pink since we moved into this house (going on 4 years now). I just couldn't take it anymore. So I painted it a dark greenish blue (called Stillwater) and trimmed it out with a kind of taupe (called Oregon Trail). Our bedroom is really small so I had to move the queen size Mission style bed around to get to one wall and then move it again to get to another. I completely sympathize about feeling really, really OLD. I couldn't move for a week after that Dawn: Your post about your husband always wanting to be work for the Forest Service and be a FF since he was a little boy in Boy Scouts reminded me of a joke someone told me recently. It just cracked me up. Here it is: What's the difference between Wildland Firefighters and Boy Scouts? The Boy Scouts have adult supervision. Well, take care everyone, Heli Groupie
9/2	Wow,,,,looks like we are missed. Poor Abs, welcoming a newcomer and trying to explain why no-one was around but him, Hoosier and Robbie? Who is Robbie? We all ran away!!!!!! Poor guy. So welcome to aly.....and thanks ab for holding down the fort. We knew we could trust ya to be good to our list. I had an absolutely wonderful time. My youngest FF and I went up to the hot springs and around thru east Glacier and then sorta round and bout home. We laughed and howled at the moon. Literally,,,,,took the telescope to look at mars but couldn't find it.....so we watched the moon. He ate everything in sight and then some......course we found some cute girl type people who are more than willing to chit-chat with him.....surprised a couple of them didn't sneak in the back of my rig.....oh well,,,,he is a handsome dude, looks just like his dad..... As we were getting closer to home this afternoon, I was thinking long soak in tub, good book, peace, quiet, etc......well no!!!! We get about half way up our drive and there are three pickups more than when I left.......yep.....two more sons and the dad....all home on the same night. That hasn't happened in months. We cooked steaks and the other stuff and then THEY cleaned up the mess while I got to soak...... yep I trained them well. So they decided to bunk here for the night and go on to their homes tomorrow. Well all but the dad he belongs to me. The guys (all but the dad) are all out in the 5th wheel bunking together with "my" dog right there with them. I think I heard snoring before the lights went out. So it was a grand weekend with a better ending. Abs, one of the topics of conversation tonight with the guys was the new shelters. Do we have any information on them and the dates for distribution...... mommy sammi who has most of her chicks home
9/1	Hey Everyone, Go on over to theysaid and check out all the new photos. If you click on the thumbnails you get larger photos. If you click on the words under the photos, you find out where/when/ by whom they were taken and sometimes some more info. Some of your contributions are up on various pages. I could still use some info for the appropriate description pages from Catskilldog about the photos you sent in (MT 1 and 2 on Fire 18 and some on Helicopters 11). And Sammi, could you check the photo description page for your photos, too (Fire 18, Airtankers 8)? I wasn't 100% sure what info went with what photo. Having a truckdriver in the mix makes things interesting. I know I'm a little fanatical about keeping track, but this can make me crazy if I don't keep up. FireMomma I still have a number of your memorial and misc photos to put on their old and yet-to-be-created pages. I need to work on those pages, soon. I didn't receive the one of the inside of the McCall smokejumper ready room. Ab.
9/1	Fire Wife, My DH also got to be Smokey, and now my girls ages 3 and 5 think that that is just daddy's job. They know he is a fire fighter, but they heard me saying that being Smokey was his "dream come true." He has wanted to work for the forest service and be a fire fighter since he was a little boy in boy scouts, so he is living his dream. It sounds like you, and Oregon Jewel are all somewhat in my neck of the woods, we are in No. Ca. I have not been to Crater yet, but my DH has and wants to get me there as soon as time permits. Hope everyone had a safe weekend, Dawn
9/1	Oregon Jewel, I've yet to go to Crater Lake. My husband said he would take me after he gets home and before winter sets it. But, well, fire season seems like its going to rage all the way through next spring. I can't believe I'm saying this, but...it'll be nice to sit upstairs in my studio and scrapbook with the rain hitting the roof. TazGirl, your life going's on sound so fun! An art show...and helping your bud with a music video...lots of creative juices flowin' I'm so achy from jumping up and down from my cabinets to paint and wallpaper, I'm feeling like an old, old woman today. My middle daughter came in town last night from Northern California in a U-Haul to pack up the rest of her stuff and move. We had fun going through old family things and laughing. She asked me if I was sad to see her finally move out...I said "About as sad as I was the day my last child started kindergarten...." Translated...NOT... She gave me the pouty look and I gave her my mom hug and said..."Pack 'er up girlfriend." With the new kitchen...her fiancé here to help me move heavy stuff around in the garage and a gaping U-Haul...I used it as an opportunity to "Feng Shui" my life. Here, you want this? How about that? Here's the cedar chest...the sewing machine...dishes...pots...drafting desk...end tables...lamps...Don't forget this...and that....WoooHoooo I could dance through my house right now. It feels so ... clear! And just so it doesn't sound so much like I'm an uncaring ice-queen, she's only 3 hours away in Northern California in my FAVORITE town of all time. So, we'll be visiting often. With four children, (three in college now) I've gotten kind of antsy for my little birds to flit out into the world. "Flit" not being the operative word in any of their cases...all three heart stopping, gut twisting, droopity, rollercoaster maiden voyages. I think though, especially after talking to other parents, most nest departures are similar to that. The phone just rang..."Mom, I have a couple of questions...." Fire Wife: Thanks for the encouragement about the kitchen. I really didn't know it would take this much work to give my kitchen a face lift. But, all in all, I'm sure learning a lot. My visiting daughter said "Wow, mom this looks like a timber faller's kitchen cabinets, just with class." At least I haven't torn down any walls this time around. Mellie, any good book recommendations? I'm in the mood to get lost in a good one. The last novel I read was Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver. Funny, the story(ies) all involve women who are, in some way or another, linked to one another and they don't even know it. Take Care, Fire Momma
9/1	Hello... It is quiet on here today... I guess everyone is enjoying the long holiday weekend... My husband had to work all weekend as they are on 1 in 14 right now. He had to work the fair part of the weekend. Our daughter got introduced to Smokey. She is 3 and did NOT like him. Even when it was daddy and she knew it (he showed himself to her). She said she liked her daddy but not the Smokey costume. Oregon Jewel... it sounds like you had a great weekend in Crater. I love it and we try to go as often as possible. You will love Glacier too as we used to be able to go there often also. There are many places to hike in to... Fire Momma... I am sure the kitchen looks great!! I am sure your husband will love it. Hopefully he gets to come home soon. enjoy the rest of the weekend.... FireWife
9/1	Hi ya'll. Hope no one is laboring too hard today. I know I'm not. I posted on Friday and said I would not be back to this board until Tuesday. Yeah right. I'm addicted. I think even amidst my busy weekend, I have managed to check in daily. I'm going to take it easy today. My brother and I are going to hit the thrift stores. It is 50% off!! I think I'm going to start a new mosaic project and will go look for some materials. I'm motivated after seeing Lurker's painting and Fire Momma's kitchen remodeling project. Mine will be on a much smaller scale. I haven't talked to my FF since last Thurs. afternoon. He called that day and said they were spiking out and that it would probably be a few days. So this is nothing unexpected. But it's been four days now, not three, and I sure am itching to talk to him. It looks like he'll be on the Square Lake fire until his next 2 days of R & R, about a week and a half from now. And then he flies to Maine for his grandmother's wake. (She passed away about a month ago and they are having services for those that couldn't be there) I sure hope fire season is over soon. Call me selfish...real selfish...but I'm just dyin' to have him here in time for my championship roller derby game. The odds are slim but I'm still holding out hope. He's never seen me in action and that might be his last chance since I might be moving and not playing again. Sometimes I miss him so much I feel like I could just cry... I just keep moving forward...forward momentum. And I have lots and lots of distraction. It's only fleeting moments when I miss him like that. I went to this great art party last night. It was six artists that held their own showing. They had free beer (Lone Star, of course), a band, and free frito pie...true Austin, TX style. It was fun. Then I went and saw one of the roller derby girl's band play. I have seen more live music than you could shake a stick at this weekend. I have a friend from California coming in this Thursday. He is going to be shooting a small music video here and I will be helping him w/ that. Should be a lot of fun...and more distraction. ;) Talk to you all tomorrow, TazGirl
9/1	Hello All! I just got back from 4 days at a Science Fiction Convention in Atlanta. Interesting people there LOL. I missed FamilySaid, so when I called home to check in with mum, I asked her to read the latest postings to me. She is as hooked on this board as I am. Thanks again, Ab's for creating and maintaining this. I DID see some interesting art in the art show they had there. Someone did a print of a group of teddy bears as Wildfire Firefighters! Another artist did a sculpture of one of the characters. I grabbed the card of the one who did the sculpture, and can pass the name onto Ab if anyone is interested in it. I wrote a bit while I was down there, and hope to post some more poetry and such after I run it through spell-check a few times. Hope everyone had a good weekend, and that all your firefighters come home soon. Poet
9/1	Good morning everyone, Nemesis, Welcome. Thanks for the hilarious post. I do have a couple of fallers though that stack their own firewood so precisely, they must have used a level and a plumb bob. I also once dressed my (former) husband in a Halloween costume as a .... drip torch. Hope all of you are doing well. It looks like some of my fallers at least will be straggling home over the next few days. My husband may be one of them, maybe not. I'm just emerging from the kitchen project, wondering if I'll ever get all the black paint out of my hair. It's hard to realize just how much renovating a kitchen entails. Inside and outside every cabinet and door, even in a small kitchen...is a lot of surface area. Saturday I put a stack of CDs in the stereo to listen to while I worked, and as usual so many of the tunes reminded me of the personalities here on Family Said. Here's my musical recommendation of the week: "Robinella and the CC String Band." Man she can belt 'em out. Two tracks specifically "Man Over" and "Dress me up, Dress me down." Also..."Mornin' Dove"...and "Mistakes" Movie release to watch for..."And I will foul you with great vengeance and furious anger", <the story of Ken Carter, the controversial boys' basketball coach at a high school in northern CA who became nationally known in '99 after he benched the entire undefeated team midseason for poor academic performance...> Peace to you all...and patience until you can attain peace... Fire Momma
9/1	Taz Girl By all means, get out and do something adventurous with your life! Just do it because YOU want to do it. You never know where it will take you. We are all the products of the collection of experiences in our lives. Some of them are great, some not so great, but we learn and grow from all of them. Just got back from a weekend at Crater Lake, it is truly the "Oregon Jewel". I've lived here most of my life and never visited it before..... we tried last year, but the park was closed due to limited visibility from the Apple fire. Next month we are going to the Grand Canyon, next summer Yellowstone, I think we'll wait until Glacier has some time to recover before heading over there! Oregon Jewel