The court gave us his order today with the trial date schedules. I thought
most of you would like to know what that schedule is, so I've attached his
order.

Tina

www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2008/law/OrderTrialSchedule[4-22-08].pdf  (39 K pdf file small)

Text:

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON

TRIAL SCHEDULE

THIS MATTER is scheduled for trial beginning May 5, 2008 and
ending July 2, 2008. Counsel shall meet with the Court in chambers at
8:30 a.m. on the first day of trial. Jury Selection will begin at
10:00 a.m. Trial will be held each day from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
and from 1:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. excluding the following days: May 9,
May 16, May 22, May 23, May 26, June 5, June 6, June 20, and June 23 -
27.

IT IS SO ORDERED. The District Court Executive is hereby
directed to enter this order and furnish copies to counsel.
DATED this 22nd day of April, 2008.
s/ Fred Van Sickle
United States District Judge

Thanks Tina. Free Ellreese. Ab.

Here's what Becki Forest-Supervisor (on the Wenatchee- Okanogan NFs)
said on 4/14 theysaid post from Gorge FMO:

I plan on attending as much of the trial as possible. When I’m not
there, my representative will be. I will wear my uniform proudly in
support of all employees and the Agency. I have identified a few
employees that will serve a variety of roles in an official capacity at
the trial, including keeping you informed of the proceedings. Others
interested in attending can do so on their own time, not in an official
capacity, with the use of leave pre-approved by their supervisor.

She may be there in an official capacity, though.

Mellie

The Free Ellreese page is up to date again...

Here is a letter from the Forest Supervisor on the Wenatchee- Okanogan NF's
on the upcoming trial for Ellreese Daniels, Thirty Mile ICT3. We need to
keep him in our thoughts as the trial approaches.

GorgeFMO
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okanogan-Wenatchee Employees:

The trial of our employee Ellreese Daniels is scheduled to begin May 5.
He was indicted by a grand jury on four counts of involuntary
manslaughter and seven counts of making false statements based on
actions in his role as crew boss during the Thirtymile tragedy in 2001.
I struggle with the reality of criminal charges against one of our own
employees. I was not here in 2001, but today I feel the anxiety and
fears of the firefighting community. I am also deeply saddened at the
loss families experienced. Yet, in the midst of this swirl of strong
emotion, we must go on.

I intend to support Ellreese by ensuring I do not interfere with a fair
and speedy trial. All we can do for the families, employees and the
American public is cooperate with the defense and prosecution by
providing knowledgeable witnesses to testify honestly and truthfully.
Then, let the justice system work based on the facts of the case. In
the end, the judge and jury will decide the outcome of the trial.

This case will likely generate national media interest. If you want to
speak with the media, then it is critical that you emphasize to them
that you are speaking for yourself, as an individual, on you own time,
not for the Forest Service or in any official capacity. It is your
choice as an individual, representing your personal views to speak to a
reporter. I offer this thought though. Ask yourself, “How will my
comments influence the ability of the court to provide a fair and speedy
trial”? If you are asked to comment as a Forest Service employee, please
refer that request to Glen Sachet (503-808-2790) in the Regional Office.

Some of you will testify as witnesses for the defense or prosecution, or
you will know someone who is testifying. The emotions of the tragedy may
return. Don’t hesitate to talk with your line or staff officer, union
representative, or contact the Employee Assistance Program for help.

I plan on attending as much of the trial as possible. When I’m not
there, my representative will be. I will wear my uniform proudly in
support of all employees and the Agency. I have identified a few
employees that will serve a variety of roles in an official capacity at
the trial, including keeping you informed of the proceedings. Others
interested in attending can do so on their own time, not in an official
capacity, with the use of leave pre-approved by their supervisor.

Maureen Hanson, Bobbie Scopa and I will be holding meetings at HQ and
the Districts next week to discuss the upcoming trial and answer
employee questions.

Finally, this has been and will continue to be a very emotional time.
Please be sensitive and understanding of the feelings of others around
you, and take extra care of yourselves.

Sincerely,

Becki

I met with Ellreesse's Federal Public Defender Tina Hunt here in
Missoula on Thursday: she seems well prepared for the May 5th trial
date, and hopes that the Judge will approve a site visit for the jurors.
We talked about many of the issues that are well known to all of us, as
well as some tactics and qualifications issues.
Tina still expects a 6+ week long trial.
There will be lots of witnesses, especially on the Government side,
telling their stories about what they saw, heard, were told,
experienced. The 10/18 will be an important focus!
Maybe by July 1st, we'll have a clearer picture of the impacts of this
attempted mis-carriage of justice.
Tina was highly complimentary of many of the R-6 Fire Overhead that she
has interviewed.
She encouraged firefighter attendance in support of Ellreese at the
trial, yellow Nomex shirts and all!
Keep the Faith!

Dick Mangan

Thanks for the info, Dennise. We're in support, as you can see. Ab.

Ab,

Trial was moved to April 14, 2008. Right now it appears we're on track for
that trial date.

T

Dick Mangan

2/21/07
Survey reveals fears on fire line: One in four firefighters say they won't serve

2/20/07
Survey -- firefighters less willing to take charge

2/15/07
Friends help fund fire boss\'s defense: Organizers hope many will show their support for accused Thirtymile supervisor

1/31/07
Thirtymile Fire boss sees trial as a chance to clear his name: 'Other people could be held accountable,' Daniels' lawyer says

1/26/07
Thirtymile fire crew boss charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter

1/5/07
Fed case called \'travesty of justice\': Daniels' defense attorney blasts charges against fire crew boss

12/27/06
Thirtymile criminal case: Critics -- Filing charges was a mistake

12/21/07
Thirtymile fire boss faces charges: Forest Service supervisor accused of causing deaths

12/20/06
Crew boss charged with negligence in deadly 2001 Washington state wildfire

"Additionally, this case calls for the extensive use of expert witnesses not only to consult with the defense regarding the case, but also potentially to present evidence on behalf of Mr. Daniels."

"Counsel has identified at least five potential areas of expertise which will need to be retained and used during the defense of this case."

"This case represents the first time a United States Forest Service employee has been charged in a criminal action arising from actions and decisions made during the scope of his duties fighting wildland fires. It is a case which may have far reaching implications to other firefighters engaged in the line of duty."

(The new trial is set for October 15th, in part to help the active wildland firefighters)
"...many witness who may be called to testify on both sides of this case are engaged in wildland firefighting. These firefighters can be called to travel to locations throughout the Western United States in response to large wildfires, which greatly reduces their availability."

Glad the judge understood the complexity issue. It really is an issue. Ab.

Hi all - for those of you who were planning to go to Spokane tomorrow, it's canceled, as the court authorized the continuance to the fall. The following is a note from Tina Hunt, Ellreese's defense attorney. Finally some good news from the court, making it a little bit easier on all involved.
Thank you,

Heather
_____________________________

3/12/07 4:38pm
The court has granted our motion to declare this case complex, and has canceled tomorrow's hearing. The pretrial conference is now scheduled for 9/25/07 at 9:00 a.m. (that time is subject to moving it later in the day) and the trial is set for 10/15/07.

Hopefully, this email will reach those who were planning on attending before tomorrow's hearing. If this can be posted on the appropriate website, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
Tina

TJ

3/7 It's been replaced with something more recent. How can he get a fair local trial? Ab.

Here's a note of encouragement to get as many people out to the Spokane Federal Courthouse in a show of support for Ellreese Daniels at his next court appearance for criminal charges. The next appearance is the Pre-Trial Hearing (where Defense Attorney Tina Hunt will ask for a continuance into fall). Tina emailed us this afternoon, regarding several questions. Here's some info:

1) Pre-trial Hearing is set for Tuesday March 13th at 3:00pm;
2) Location in Judge Van Sickle's court on the 9th floor;
3) Thomas Foley U.S. Federal Building at 920 West Riverside; Spokane WA;
4) Appropriate clothing, advice from Tina "I would say that those who come in support of Ellreese should dress in civilian clothes. I don't think it's necessary to come in Nomex or fireboots, and in fact, it could annoy the court."
5) If you are considering whether to make the trek or not, here's what Tina thinks "Again, I always believe it is helpful for the court and the government to know how many people are standing behind Ellreese in his support."

I hope to see at least three times the attendance as last time, I hope to see YOU there!

Thank you,
Heather A. Murphy, Retired USFS Wildlife Biologist, Friend and Colleague

www.wenatcheeworld.com/sub/story.php?id=1172690932-643-895

Ab, here is the article that was posted in the Wenatchee World.

SMJ

Attached is the February 15, 2007 Wenatchee World article about Ellreese's legal defense fund for the criminal charges at Thirtymile. Please note, there is a local reporter now covering Ellreese's plight. We are hoping to get more articles in the newspaper about the affect these charges have on the wildland firefighting community and the USFS in general.

www.wenworld.com/sub/story.php?id=1171568494-490-475

The story did not have the fund address, here it is if you would like to contribute:
Account No. 1000110690
Thirty-Mile Legal Defense and Employee Assistance Fund
Cashmere Valley Bank
PO Box 249
Leavenworth, WA. 98826

And I dropped more letters and cards off for Ellreese today, he truly appreciates this show of support, it brightens this stressful time. Thank you to all who have taken a moment to let him know you care about the difficult situation he is in. If you would like to send letters, here's the address:
Ellreese Daniels C/O
Wenatchee River Ranger District
600 Sherbourne
Leavenworth, Wa 98826

Thank you,
Heather
Retired USFS, Colleague and Friend

www.wenworld.com/sub/story.php?id=1171571693-646-747

Story from a Wenatchee World reporter who is now covering Ellreese locally, rather than using Yakima Herald for Associated Press.

HAM

PS - I heard there was a mail delivery difficulty for him.

-CITE-
   7 USC Sec. 2270b
-EXPCITE-
   Title 7 - AGRICULTURE
   CHAPTER 55 - DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
-READ-
   Sec. 2270b. Department of Agriculture Inspector General
   Investigation of Forest Service firefighter deaths
-STATUTE-
   In the case of each fatality of an officer or employee of the
   Forest Service that occurs due to wildfire entrapment or burnover,
   The Inspector General of the Department of Agriculture shall
   conduct an investigation of the fatality. The investigation shall
   not rely on, and shall be completely independent of, any
   investigation of the fatality that is conducted by the Forest
   Service.
-SOURCE-
   (Pub. L. 107-203, Sec. 1, July 24, 2002, 116 Stat. 744.)

So there it is, IF the OIG used (relied on) any material(s) produced through
the Forest Service's investigation in order to conduct "his" own "independent
investigation", contrary to this statute, those materials should be deemed
to have been illegally obtained, ie, inadmissible.

Next step... I'm taking a wild stab at it that Special Agent Parker, et al, used
the work product of the Forest Service investigation in order to, at the very
least, have foundational information in order to proceed with their OIG
investigation. Under the "Fruits of the Poisonous Tree" doctrine, "any" evidence
gained through the use of illegally obtained evidence is deemed to ALSO be
inadmissible. If the OIG wasn't privy to, or didn't obtain, evidence and reports
through the proper manner(s), then any of the OIG case material gotten under
the guise of PL 107-203 mandate should stand to be suppressed through
pre-trial motion(s).

Additionally, Miranda, or more specifically lack thereof, might play an
interesting role in the admissibility of statements. In Vietnam, there was the
case of an NVA sniper who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He was
more of a nuisance than anything. The GI's decided to NOT hunt him down,
and instead put up with him, because they were worried that he'd get replaced
with someone who could really shoot. Yes, that one was for "you" Mr. Parker.

Hey! If any of you are able to attend Ellreese's court proceedings, "if" the
court makes a decision that the wearing of Nomex would appear prejudicial to
the jury, you might consider wearing a nice suit, along with your White's,
Drew's, or Nick's, etc. as an obvious but "lower key" show of support. I think
that the press would really run with that.

As always, Stay Safe!

"Kicks"

• Pre-trial: Have the Defense attorney get Parker to play the hot seat on a Tactical Decision Game / Sand Table Exercise as the Incident Commander of the fire. Since he is so knowledgeable about fire ground leadership and confident in Ellreese's guilt, what would he have done based on his experience, situational awareness and all of the dilemmas?
• Make sure all of the well documented distractions, human factors and "What if's" are thrown in by the facilitator/role players.
• Have the judge and each juror take turns in the hot seat.
• Have the jury participate in the Staff Ride that was developed for the fire. The whole thing can be reasonably re-created, even with the actual participants. They will see "things are not always what they seem" when reading an investigation report or 5 years later as memories soften.
• Maybe it's time for the Federal Fire Service to develop something similar to the Military's "Uniform Code of Military Justice" and their Courts Martial procedures.
• Shouldn't the jury be "of his peers"? Peer by definition: A person(s) who has equal standing with another or others, as in rank, class, or age. I could objectively hear the case and arrive at an unbiased decision. ( I have served twice on juries )
• There is too much at stake for Ellreese and the rest of the fire service, a new approach is needed

makes you think doesn't it?
a student of fire and leadership,

sting

"To provide for an independent investigation of Forest Service firefighter deaths that are caused by wildfire entrapment or burnover."

However section 1(a) seems to expand the intent by stating:

"In the case of each fatality of an officer or employee of the Forest Service due to wildfire entrapment or burnover..."

Inferences could be drawn that an investigation is required, not just with firefighter deaths, but those of others, perhaps fire ecologists and others. Again, the intent is vague.

Let's face it. The specificity of the law as relating to Forest Service employees demonstrates the intent of the legislation/law being to respond to the needs of the families lost on Thirty Mile. The fact that the legislation/law was written by Washington state congressional folks validates that point. However, given that this issue is even in criminal court should lead those from other land-management agencies to be wary of "motivated" overzealous prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves.

Therein lies one of the problems with this law... it was simply not well thought out and failed to look at the bigger picture.

The application of 107-203 to Thirty Mile "retroactively" is a concern,  as nowhere in the law does it authorize the legislation to be applied retroactively to Thirty Mile or any fire. Despite this lack of authority, the OIG Investigator clearly states his reliance on 107-203 to support his investigation into Thirty Mile.

The OIG Investigator also states that he worked "in concert" with the US Attorney's office and I believe you ask how that nexus developed.

The US Attorney's office is also relying on a less publicized statute (at least in the public commentary on Thirty Mile): this is Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 51 Homicide, Sec. 114 Protection of officers & employees of the United States and amended subsequent to 9/11.

This statute in part says

"Whoever kills or attempts to kill any officer or employee of the United States or of any agency in any branch of the United States Government (including any member of the uniformed services) while such officer or employee is engaged in or on account of the performance of official duties, or any person assisting such an officer or employee in the performance of such duties or on account of that assistance, shall be punished-

(1) in the case of murder, as provided under section 1111;
(2) in the case of manslaughter, as provided under section 1112; or
(3) in the case of attempted murder or manslaughter, as provided in section 1113

Let's not be naive. This law, amended post 9/11, is designed to focus on terrorists in this country or those who support such activities. To apply it in the case of Ellreese Daniels is unconscionable, irresponsible, an abuse of the law and stinks of political ambitions on the part of the US Attorney. At the very least, it is an extreme stretch to apply the intent of the law in the Thirty Mile case.

We have offered that assessment to the President and US Attorney Gonzalez in a letter last month. We also have corresponded with Phyllis Fong, USDA OIG on her department's "retroactive" application of 107-203; Mr. Parker's continual reference to his reliance on the Forest Service investigation ( a violation of the law) and actions which he continued to display while on the Esperanza scene.

Further, we have asked her department to define the parameters/policies/procedures it has developed to conduct such investigations under the law and have asked Congress to explain what its intent was in seeking a report from the USDA OIG's office, i.e. once they get such a report, what will they do with it.

All of this has led to the dialogue during last week's Senate Energy & Natural Resources Committee during which Sen. Domenici (R-NM) raised this issue and Mr. Mark Rey, answering for the Administration, offered concerns and recommendations... never mind the same concerns and recommendations the FWFSA took to the Forest Service 2 1/2 years ago and which fell on deaf ears.

So... hopefully this explains a bit on the application of the laws and how the US Attorney & OIG's office seem to be working together on this mess.

Casey Judd
Business Manager
FWFSA

"A legal defense and employee assistance fund has been established to provide financial support to Forest Service employees (current and former) who need assistance to respond to administrative and criminal charges."

Checks should be made out to "Thirty-Mile Legal Defense and Employee Assistance Fund"; put the account number (1000110690) on the check and send to:

Account No. 1000110690
Thirty-Mile Legal Defense and Employee Assistance Fund
Cashmere Valley Bank
PO Box 249
Leavenworth, WA. 98826

Special Note: for active USFS employees, please DO NOT distribute this fund-raising information within internal email systems, as it would be an inappropriate use of government equipment. That said, for those of us outside in the private sector, it would be OK for us to send to FS employees from our home/personal computers.

Thank you for considering helping Ellreese; having friends and support is an incredible force.

Take Care All,
Heather
Retired USFS
Private Citizen, Colleague and Friend

Being a federal employees we are not able to strike against the Federal Government, so let's strike against Washington State whenever they have a fire, since Washington State is the one that charged our firefighter.

We can thank the Forest Service and OES for the campers suing the Forest Service. Let's talk about making the case for them by charging our firefighter.

According to the Forest Service we are Forestry Technicians, not professional firefighters, so should a Forestry Technician be making the decisions a firefighter should be making? Therefore, should he be held accountable?

SGM

We can't strike against against anyone or any state. It's not the state's fault. I agree, how strange and demeaning to be called Forestry and Range Technicians... I hear your frustration.

I think

• if we continue to get the word out via FWFSA to legislators, local and national;
• if we support Ellreese and all who work and hake honest human decisions within their positions;
• if we get out the word and encourage firefighters to fill out the IAWF survey, we have more hard facts;
• if we demand that fire have a Just Culture so we can foster a safer Learning Environment;
• if we focus on systemic factors that need to be corrected to make firefighting safer,

I think we can effect change for the better. When our agencies leaders don't seem to step up to leadership as fast as we want, it's up to the true professionals on the ground to do it. That's us. We're working at getting the info we need to make the picture more clear to those who can help, skipping the agencies. There is action taking place behind the scenes.

We're strong as a group. Hang in there. This is a work in progress. Ab.

Ab note: Please keep the behind the scenes support going for Ellreese and all of us. It's good to see that Linda is doing her part to pass on info that keeps people up to date.

As discussed yesterday, Jim attended the arraignment for Ellreese Daniel to support him and all firefighters. Wanted to share Jim's note.

Linda Goodman
Regional Forester, Pacific Northwest Region

----- Original Message -----

From: James Boynton
Sent: 01/31/2007 02:02 PM
Subject: Yesterday's arraignment

Yesterday I was able to attend the arraignment of our employee Ellreese Daniels in federal court in Spokane. Ellreese was present with his attorney, Christina Hunt. The federal judge advised him of the charges against him; 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter and 7 counts of giving false statements to a federal investigator. His attorney entered a plea of not guilty on all counts, on his behalf. A new judge was assigned and a trial date was set for March 26. Ms. Hunt indicated the trial date will likely be delayed until sometime later this year. After speaking with Ms. Hunt, I’m confident in her ability to defend Ellreese against the charges and believe she will serve him well.

There were more than 20 Forest employees, retirees and friends of Ellreese there to provide him support and he was extremely appreciative of their presence.

There was also a considerable amount of media present. I was pleased that I was able to share with the media our support of Ellreese and the far-reaching negative impacts criminalizing of fire fighting decisions has had on our workforce and ability to effectively respond to incidents.

We will continue to keep you updated as things unfold.

Jim

1. The pre-trial hearing is set for March 13, 2007 at the Federal Courthouse in Spokane (time TBA);
2. The judge hearing this case will be the Honorable Fred Van Sickle (FYI - he was previously a Chelan/Douglas County Superior Court Judge);
3. It is absolutely appropriate for interested people to come into the court room.
4. The trial is set to start on March 26th, but his lawyer will be asking for a continuance until October 2007;
5. Tina will probably not know until March if the continuance is granted, then she will let us know of changes;
6. Finance questions - all of Ellreese’s court related costs are paid by the Public Defender’s Office;
7. Other finance questions - Ellreese will need financial assistance for incidentals (days off work, travel, overnight stays); court apparel; and if he wants his family brought to Washington for the trial. (For those interested in helping further, we’re setting up a Legal Defense Fund at Cashmere Valley Bank in Leavenworth).
8. Ellreese truly appreciates any and all support offered; the cards and letters are very important to him; as was the good showing of people at his hearing.

An aside, from my perspective of being at the Arraignment Hearing: There was a decent showing of about 20 of us; it was very significant, I’m glad I took the time to go. But, it was an awful experience, “chilling”, to hear the US Attorney read criminal charges against a USFS employee. I can only imagine how Ellreese is feeling.

On the good side – the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Supervisor, Jim Boynton, showed first-rate leadership by attending, and then, in interviews with media. In a note, he said,

“I was pleased that I was able to share with the media our support of Ellreese and the far-reaching negative impacts criminalizing of fire fighting decisions has had on our workforce and ability to effectively respond to incidents.”

Finally, my heart goes out to the family and friends of our lost four (Tom, Jessica, Karen and Devin) on 30-Mile, as it does to the survivors. There is not a day that those closely associated with 30-Mile do not remember their lost four comrades. It is a tough time for all; we need to help each other through this. Thank you to TheySaid for this important and professional forum.

Sincerely,

Heather Murphy
Retired USFS Wildlife Biologist-Resource Advisor, Colleague and Friend, (02/02/07)

Thanks, Heather. Good support and leadership counts for a lot. Ab.

“On the day of the battle, naked lessons are lying about everywhere and can be had
for free. By the next day, they have already begun to put their clothes back on.”

I’m fairly certain this is just an approximation of the real quote. The point is, as time elapses, individual memories of events subtly change. There is nothing sinister or criminal about this, it is just a very normal human tendency to remember and portray events in a way that casts the best light on the storyteller.

Another point to consider; after the fatalities occurred, anyone who was even peripherally involved with Thirtymile had excellent motivation to distance themselves from Ellreese in any way possible.

I encourage you to get off this person-based approach you seem to be stuck on and look more at the organizational issues that preceded this incident. Instead of going back and rewriting history, you should be looking forward to help insure that future accidents are investigated by trained professionals who understand the information processing limitations of human beings, and who are permitted to delve into contributing organizational influences. Too much time and memory and anger has passed under the bridge for THE truth about Thirtymile to ever emerge.

If the ENGB in question was wrongly portrayed, he has my empathy. But checking in at an incident is still a good lesson regardless of whether it happened or not. The important point is whether it makes people talk and think about checking in and getting briefed on every fire, not who did, or did not, fulfill their responsibility in this particular circumstance.

Another quote for you, from George Herbert:

“Follow not truth too near the heels, lest it dash out thy teeth.”

Misery Whip

Point taken. I understand your feelings. Ab.

No disrespect, Mr. Boche, but you'll have to excuse me if I remain somewhat skeptical that all the things you say will become reality the next time one or more USFS firefighters are killed on a wildland fire.

For example, you state that "When our firefighters act within the scope of assigned duties in a reasonably safe and ethical way free of gross negligence, the Forest Service will stand with them." Reading your statement and applying it to Thirtymile, I'm assuming that the official USFS position is that everyone involved, except Ellreese Daniels, met your criteria? The attempted Administrative Actions against many of those involved with Thirtymile says otherwise! Putting that point aside, you make it sound like the USFS really has the power and authority to "stand with them". I question what will really happen when an angry spouse/parent of a deceased firefighter gets their Congressman/Senator to pressure the Chief, Mark Rey or a politically motivated and ambitious US Attorney (who may be looking for Senatorial favor to become a US Judge??) to take action, or in the case of the USFS, to sit on its hands with their mouths shut while another employee is charged with manslaughter.

You also tell the field fire folks that "We will distinguish between acceptable honest errors and unacceptable willful violations". Using the standards that OSHA has for "willful" violations, the USFS has been cited for "willful violations" on numerous fire fatalities since the 1993 Buchanan fatality, yet no one in the upper levels of USFS management (line officers or fire people) have ever faced criminal charges, or even a slow down in their upward mobility!

The final element of your 3 key principles says that we should take action that "MINIMIZES risks of injury or death", but then you follow up saying that all personnel "must be vigilant so that safety is NEVER compromised for any reason." Sounds like conflicting direction to me: in my experience of 30+ years, the only way to insure that safety is never compromised for any reason is to implement the "NO ACTION" alternative by staying on the road and waiting for the rain and/or snow to put the fire out.

I wish that your words, and the words of others that are finally coming out, could convince me to grease up my White's and pack my Red Bag for the coming season. I'm afraid, however, I remain unconvinced, and so will implement my own personal "No Action" alternative for the 2007 fire season or until the critical issue of firefighter liability is resolved satisfactorily.

Mollysboy

Ab,

At the risk of sounding too dramatic, it was a dark day for firefighters
yesterday in Spokane. I was in the court room when Ellreese was read
the charges against him, and I can tell you, my gut was in a knot!

When you hear the judge say: "The Government of the United States
of America is bringing formal federal charges," it's awful. There's no
doubt the full might of the federal government is going to try and put
Ellreese in prison for at least 3 years, and fine him 250,000 dollars.

If you are a firefighter, and you have ever been on a fire when you
didn’t know everything you needed to know to make good choices,
this could be you!

If you ever declared you said "this" or "that" in an overwhelming moment,
believing you did, only to be told later that others in the heat of the same
moment didn't remember it that way, this could be you, being tried for
lying!

There was not as much support standing, sitting or being present at that
court house as there needed to be, with a few notable exceptions.

Now is not a good time to lurk in the weeds firefighters! Stand up and be
counted!

This could be you!

N166Z

"In the case of each fatality of an officer or employee of the Forest Service that occurs due to wildfire entrapment or burnover, the Inspector General of the Department of Agriculture shall conduct an investigation of the fatality. The investigation shall not rely on, and shall be completely independent of, any investigation of the fatality that is conducted by the Forest Service."

USDI folks, state, local, and volunteer agencies aren't immune from the hands of the USDA Office of Inspector General... nor are Forest Service folks... nor is anyone from a group (USDA OIG) that has been legislatively allowed to investigate "potential wrongful deaths" of federal employees without the relevant field, technical, or specialized experience necessary to complete a factual investigation.

Before PL 107-203, the sole responsibility for federal employee wrongful death was administered by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) under Title 18... As a result of PL 107-203, wrongful death of Forest Service employees is NOW INVESTIGATED UNDER Title 7 which specifically DEALS WITH AGRICULTURE.

Don't even bring up the Constitutional issues of how PL 107-203 violates so many basic protections. The USDA OIG and the Constitutional issues of PL 107-203 will be revealed to all at some point in the future.

After everything is said and done on the prosecution of Ellreese, I would venture to guess that that fingers of "blame" will be pointing back towards Special Agent Parker and the Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Washington.

Hopefully we will concentrate on learning and being a just culture.... SA Parker and the Asst US Attorney simply screwed up.

I bet that is everyone sticks to their guns, that this will eventually be presented before the United States Supreme Court.

/s/ Sign me... feeling somehow like a slab of bacon to accomplish the USDA "Mission".
Sign me also... Lobotomy

Today's Senate hearing on Energy and Natural Resources on
Costs of wildfire suppression [active webcast available]

The purpose of the hearing is to consider the status of Federal
land management agencies’ efforts to contain the costs of their
wildfire suppression activities and to consider recent independent
reviews of and recommendations for those efforts.

Trial date set for deadly wildfire charges

A March 26 trial is scheduled for a former U-S Forest Service
crew boss charged with involuntary manslaughter and lying to
federal investigators in the deaths of four firefighters.

Ellreese Daniels is charged with four counts of involuntary
manslaughter and seven counts of making false statements to
federal investigators. Pleas of not guilty were entered for him
oday in U-S- District Court in Spokane.

Thanks to all who are sending this in. Ab.

This isn’t the time to quit. If you’re retired, I understand quitting, but I wouldn’t call it that. You’ve put your time in and done your duty, now it’s time to enjoy everything else life has to offer you.

But the rest of you, c’mon! Why did you choose to fight fire in the first place? Firefighters are not like the majority of the population. Most of us are rather strange by “normal” standards, aren’t we? We’re the type of people that enjoy skydiving, rock-climbing, skiing, snowboarding, hunting, fishing, whitewater kayaking and traveling to strange places hoping to get lost just to increase the adventure. Firefighters are “fighters”. They’re people who don’t back down from a challenge or danger. They enjoy and thrive on helping those that are sick, injured, less fortunate etc. Firefighters are the type of people that will stop to help a stranded woman give birth without blinking an eye, risk their lives to save a dog trapped in an RV in front of an oncoming forest fire, jump into a class 5 river to tie off their buddy stuck in a strainer, walk through an area hot enough to melt the vibram of their boots to rescue a stranded fawn. Firefighters never ever give up on their calling, their friends, their peers or their families.

If you quit and just walk away, you’re not one of these people I’ve described above. If you quit to make a stand against what we all believe is wrong, then follow through by going all the way; go to Ellreese’s trial, write your senators etc. don’t just quit in silence, make it count for something that will make a change.

There is danger and a huge challenge ahead of us. Maybe we can do something good with it. Do you really believe that you’re the type of leader that will get in the same situation that Ellreese was in? Maybe it is time to take a look at how you’re leading. The “can do” attitude has to be reigned in now, doesn’t it? You know you take risks, we do. There are crewbosses that still allow crews to have a beer or two off hours while on assignment…. but no more. There are times when we engage without the proper resources to watch our back door, now, we can’t do that anymore. The crewmember that is insubordinate will not receive a warning, but will now be sent home on the first flight or bus because they are a liability. In essence without rambling on and on with examples, we now have to change our tactics so to speak. The result will be that we have more large fires, thus incurring larger expense. The initial attack percentages that line officers are supposed to achieve will not increase, but decrease, due to lack of engagement.

It’s simple circle logic.
We know that part of fighting fire is the inevitability that people will die and, sick as it sounds, that is what lures a lot of us to it. However, we can be better, we can be safer. We just have to back off on the mass hysteria and think about how you as a leader can fight fire smart. If you know you’re in over your head, don’t go deeper. Listen to your gut, get the training you need. Don’t accept a signed off taskbook if you know in your heart that you can’t take the worst assignment that position has to offer you. If you feel vulnerable or exposed with your current quals, back off a few and start over.
We need to be there for the younger ones that need us. We need to be mentors, we need to tighten up how we do business and be professionals. So WHEN not if, the next fatality happens, you can sit through an investigation with confidence that you did everything right.

Things will change; they will get better because so many people are fighting for our justice. Don’t you think it would be cowardly to walk away in the heat of a battle?

-Dozershot

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know some of you may have seen this Oregonian Editorial but wanted to
make sure you shared it with your employees. Unfortunately, there isn't a
lot we can do for Ellreese Daniels as he goes through the legal process.
However, we can and have raised our concerns about what this trial does to
our firefighters as a whole and talked about the need to be able to have
employees tell us what happened after an accident without fear of
prosecution. When talking to either newspapers or congressional staffers,
we should be mentioning our fears and concerns when possible. Thanks.

Linda Goodman
Regional Forester
Pacific Northwest Region

You may have received this information through other means, but I thought it best to make sure the info gets out to those who might help support Ellreese by personally attending this Tuesday's hearing. To get the "where/when" info, I made a phone call on Friday 1/26/07 to the (Federal) Public Defender's Office; Ms. Tina Hunt in Spokane. The Legal Assistant that I spoke with asked that the word gets out.

*Arraignment Hearing for **Ellreese Daniels *
_Date: _ Tuesday January 30th, 2007
_Time:_ 3:00pm (1500 hrs)
_Location:_ Thomas Foley U.S. Federal Building
920 West Riverside
Spokane, WA
_Courtroom:_ Magistrate Imbrogno Court

Those coming are advised to arrive 15 minutes early to go through the Security check point; bring photo ID (WA driver's license). The Arraignment Hearing is expected to last 15 to 30 minutes. You could also support Ellreese by waiting outside the Courthouse. I know a good group of local USFS supporters will be there on Tuesday.

Thank you,
Heather A. Murphy
Retired USFS, Colleague and Friend

Thanks, Heather. Ab.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that
matter"..... Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Mollysboy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subject: 30 Mile Legal Action

We learned this afternoon that our Region 6 employee has been indicted for
his actions during the Thirty-Mile Fire tragedy in July 2001. The grand
jury heard the evidence presented by the US Attorney's Office and has
handed down an indictment. An indictment is not a finding of guilt. The
employee is scheduled to be arraigned on Tuesday, January 30, 2007. At
the arraignment, he will appear before a magistrate judge, who will present
him with the charges, and at that time, his attorney will enter a plea. We
expect a trial date will be set at that time or soon after.

Again, we know this is difficult news to accept and understand. I want to
re-emphasize that no one has been found guilty. A jury will have to
determine if the individual is innocent or guilty as charged. I know that
this situation continues to impact us, particularly those of us in the
firefighting community. I encourage you to share your thoughts, feelings,
and questions with your local line officers.

Again, we expect that there will be news media coverage of this event,
where people will air their opinions and feelings. Let's not judge those
who may speak harshly of our employee or our agency. I ask you to be
professional, as always, and respectful of others' opinions.

***************************
Liz Agpaoa
Deputy Regional Forester
Pacific Northwest Region

Article Link: Oregonian

Thanks to all who sent in this link. Ab.

For what it's worth, I sent emails to both Utah Senators and all 3 congressmen yesterday, urging them to repeal PL 107-203. I think a concerted effort by the wildland fire community will not only heighten political awareness for this instance, but can provide a wake up call to our representatives that we are force to be reckoned with in the future.

Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains...

Joe Hill

If we each do a little bit every day, it will snowball.

Help Ellreese.

Ab.

noname

• FWFSA and IAWF issued a joint news release stating our belief that the actions of the US Attorney did not serve the public need;
• USFS retiree groups have become involved, trying to get PL 107-203 changed in Congress;
• Casey Judd and I have had numerous media interviews about the ramifications of these charges for future firefighter safety; www.firehouse.com just ran an article, and Fire Chief magazine has one scheduled to come out soon.
• Individuals in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, California, Montana (and elsewhere?) have written their Senators and Congressmen about this issue;
• Several of us have talked and emailed Ellreese's US Public Defender Tina Hunt and offered help;
• at least 40 folks are now linked together to share info about the upcoming charges, and attempts to modify or repeal PL 107-203.

It's my belief that we need to keep our energy level on the increase over the next 30-60 days, and so propose that those of us already involved, and anyone else who wants to o join in, consider taking the following actions:

• First, write your local congressional Rep and US Senator; they listen to local constituents more than outsiders; FAX the letter, because hard copy mail takes weeks since it has to get ultra-violet scanned in DC;
• if you've got good fire skills and are NOT affiliated with an Agency, contact the Public Defender with a copy of your resume. Tina_Hunt at FD.org (not putting the @ sign keeps spammers from picking this out);
• if you're a member of NFPA, SAF, IAFF or similar groups, let them know your concerns and solicit their involvement; FWFSA and IAWF are already involved and active.
• If you're an Agency person or an AD, and plan to remove your name from the "available" list at Dispatch for 2007, let your Agency folks know about it. The media Spokesperson for the USFS at NIFC keeps telling the media that losing qualified firefighters isn't a problem.
• if you're a State, County, Rural firefighter, let your department officials know of your concern about the criminal charges, and the potential for these types of things to trickle down away from the USFS and into your world;
• write letters to your local newspapers, telling them of your concerns;
• share information about what's happening with Ellreese and PL 1-7-203 with your fellow firefighters;
• if your US Rep or Senator is on the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, request them to hold a formal hearing about the impacts of PL 107-203 on wildland fire activities;
• in all of your conversations and writings, please remain professional and courteous to all involved.

Here are some suggested "Talking Points" that may help you focus your comments when talking to others (courtesy of Bill Gabbert):

TALKING POINTS:

• We are not asking for anyone to interfere with the legal proceedings that are currently going forward against Mr. Ellreese Daniels. We want to prevent it from happening to anyone else.
• Repeal the Cantwell/Hastings Bill, PL 107-203. Senator Maria Cantwell and Rep. Doc Hastings, who sponsored this bill, only wanted to ensure that the deaths of firefighters would be investigated so that lessons could be learned in order to reduce future such accidents. They both now say that manslaughter charges were never anticipated and is an unexpected consequence.
• Reasons to repeal PL 107-203:
  • The land management agencies are already obsessed with safety and conduct their own fatality investigations, along with OSHA, and now the Department of Agriculture's Office of Inspector General
  • Wildland fire suppression is as much an art as a science. It takes over a decade to become moderately skilled. Honest mistakes or the inability to predict with 100% accuracy exactly what a fast-moving fire will do should not result in a person being threatened with jail.
  • Some firefighters, now having to deal with the threat of going to jail for making a mistake during a split-second life and death situation, have recently decided that their chosen profession now exposes them and their families to unacceptable risks and they will no longer serve in overhead positions on fires. Others may decide to change to a profession that has less risk for them and their families.
  • Now that firefighters know that talking to investigators after a serious incident on the fireline can result in going to jail, destroying their careers, and ruining their families lives, many will refuse to say anything. Lessons will not be learned. Fires could get larger. More homes and private property could be lost.
  • This law, PL 107-203, requires that the Dept. of Agriculture's Office of Inspector General (OIG) conduct an independent investigation when an employee of the US Forest Service dies on a fire. The OIG generally investigates white collar crime, and has no experience or qualifications to investigate wildland fires. A good wildland fire investigator needs at least 10 years of specialized wildland fire experience, plus specific cause and origin training, as well as investigator training. The law enforcement personnel in the OIG do not have all of these qualifications.
  • If wildland firefighters can now go to jail for their honest mistakes made on a raging wildfire, can structure firefighters be far behind? If a firefighter is killed on a structure fire, will the Captain or Chief go to jail?

If you're interested in staying "in the loop" about Ellreese's case and activities regarding PL 107-203, drop me an email at: kona at bigsky.net and I'll get you on the list. NOTE: if you're an Agency person, the Email Gestapo may be watching! I'd recommend getting and sending messages to/from your personal mail account at home, on off-duty hours.

In the years that I've been involved in wildland fire (way over 30), I've never seen a single issue that has so much potential to have a negative influence on our business and firefighter safety. That said, I also never seen such a ground-swell of support from our wildfire community to right this wrong.

Please, get involved, stay involved, change/repeal PL 107-203 and help Ellreese beat these charges.

Dick Mangan

Now that I see that the Chief is resigning, it makes a little more sense when I was told that the Chief's office would not be sending anything out. Hopefully our new Chief will see this as a crucial topic that requires her immediate focus.

It is truly heartening to see the postings here on TheySaid.... Abs thanks so much for all you have done... Casey Judd, right-on for encouraging us to stay in the game and stay tuned, there are things that are happening... Dick Mangan...I have always been inspired by your knowledge and convictions, it was good to re-read your article... now I remember where the slippery slope term came from.. sorry for plagiarizing.... there are so many others that are posting things that keep the dialogue going... Jumpin Jill Flash.. Miserywhip.. FireBill...Old Green and Gray... Thomas Taylor... and all the others that bring their diverse opinions and feelings into the important issues that are in front of us.

Ellreese, hang in there and know that you have alot of people that are there supporting you and are raising the issues of criminal complaints against those that are doing the Gov'ts work. I, for one, am planning on continuing to stay actively engaged in fire suppression work... whether its being a ICT3, DIVS, OSC2, or as a SOF2. It is truly a very noble and honorable profession that we have. I have hope that we will see changes within the Agency, that they will be there beside us if ever the need arises. Let's all continue to stay engaged on the issues before us and continue the dialogue, and respect each other's perspectives.

Rod Altig
FMO Columbia River Gorge

You're welcome. It takes all of us. The Abs.

Conversely, I firmly believe that these actions are making life as a firefighter infinitely more dangerous because they are wrapped up in CYA instead of doing the job at hand safely. I am further disappointed in the performance of the Forest Service Leadership (lack of) specifically the Chief and Director of F&AM, more check lists, Doctrine, more smoke screen, where are their heads at? One poster here suggested throwing out the 10/18 perhaps they are right throw out all this acronym garbage and go back to the ORIGINAL 10 and 13 (yes 10 & 13) that said it all and these are not really grouped for management but for firefighter safety think about it! Commander’s intent is a good concept and it doesn’t need a big document to explain it simply put it is defined in Objectives, Strategy and Tactics tempered with serious application of the 10 and 13.

On leadership, well it is non-existent with most of the Forest Service, yet there is all kinds of “Management” they are woefully unschooled and unskilled in leadership. This trend has been evolving since the mid 80s. There are a very few islands of true leadership that remain and they are under assault by mediocrity which is becoming the accepted standard.

Several posters have commented on giving up or not obtaining Quals. Humm, if I was still on the job I would seriously consider the same thing; it isn’t worth what is happening to people that do make mistakes. I made more than my share and was extremely fortunate to not seriously hurt anyone.

Several years ago there was a post here on “Where have the ICs gone?” ab could you find it and repost it, as its very appropriate at this time. “Blackwell on Where have the ICs gone?” (link on the Archives page, Docs Worth Reading section.)

I was an IC, and would not do it today. Yes there will be a huge IC void, and as previously pointed out, it will be filled, with more mediocrity. There are people out there that are “Qualified” but certainly not skilled, a product of the new version training and quals system that is a check the box and you are one. I heard it said the previous quals system was the “good ole boy” system and to a certain extent that’s correct. However, when a person was “qualified” under that system they had demonstrated through action on more than one or two occasions that they truly were, and not everyone made it through that process. Just think, not all high school or college football players that want to, make it to the NFL no matter how good they are locally.

This issue is greater than “Quality training” it is also "quality performance". I have personally witnessed employees that have been denied qualification when they were signed off for qualifications on a simple incident. They filed grievances and won, only to move on to the next level and become even more incompetent. The same applies to those that are known to promote by grievance... yet more mediocrity. When was the last time you know when someone’s quals were rescinded because they were incompetent and it stuck? So those considering giving up quals think about who will fill that void.

When I started, it was tin hard hats brown work shirts, levis and shelters were a new thing we didn’t trust. When I retired a few years ago off one of the busiest fire forests I had been a type I IC.

Maybe after 40 years of this your thoughts may sound the same. I wondered why all the old guys were cynical when I was wet behind the ears new.

Sorry for the length of this and I am sure that there are those who will disagree.

Old Green and Gray guy

Welcome Old Green and Grey. Ab.

I wrote this letter over 4 years ago. As you can tell, I was frustrated and concerned about my inability to control my exposure when I had little control over the workforce assigned to me, especially on fire assignments. Even though most people know who wrote it, I asked to have my name removed from it as I have moved on to other things and prefer not to have it following me around. My understanding is that it may be more applicable today than then. Each person must make his/her own decisions, but keep this in mind…..Wildland Firefighting is a noble and important career. The country needs you! My time has past, but yours may not have. Fight the good fight and try to make things better for you and your people.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Retirement letter ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am sending this letter to announce my retirement on September 30, 2002.

I made this decision with a great deal of reluctance. I feel like I am deserting. When I agreed to become a Type 1 IC I actually intended to work 2-3 years longer. Otherwise, I would not have taken the position. Since then, things have changed.

The event that changed my mind so abruptly is the 30-mile Hazard Abatement Plan. As you know, fire teams have been struggling to keep abreast of the issues and follow the large volume of direction all summer. The people on my team did an outstanding job.

The fact remains that the Forest Service, through layers of directives, action items, letters and other documents, has shifted the majority of the responsibility to FMO’s and IC’s. I believe this puts us in a vulnerable liability position if an accident does occur. It is impossible to guarantee 100% compliance with all the rules and still do the job, either at home or on a large fire.

The 30-mile investigation resulted in several adverse actions, including proposed removals. The Forest Service will not allow us to review the related findings, so it is impossible for us to understand what actions or omissions led to the disciplinary actions and make our own judgments. It is now unclear what support the agency is willing to provide in such instances. We are left guessing at the future. More importantly, I see a trend towards more aggressive involvement by family members of victims. When we live in such a litigious society, this is also concern.

My family, my lawyer and I all came to the same conclusion. I have the ability to remove myself from this risk, I should do so now. I am already eligible to retire so it no longer makes sense to allow myself to continue in what I consider to be a position of unacceptable, yet inescapable risk.

I hope my service this year has helped in one small way of allowing others another year of experience at DPIC so they are even more prepared to step up. I am proud to have been part of the R-XX Fire Organization, I think we are the best in the Nation. I am honored to have been one of your IC’s and wish the best to the entire Wildland Fire Service.

The team membership of my IMT was well established when I was given the assignment last Spring. I can say I inherited the best group of highly skilled and friendly people I have ever seen on one team. They have done an outstanding job in a difficult year. Please continue to give them your full support.

Sincerely,

<snip>

Thanks for letting us share this. Ab.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the President’s Desk
Dick Mangan
IAWF President, 2004-2005

Wildfire Magazine
January-February, 2005

Wildland Firefighting on a Slippery Slope

In May, 1987 along China’s Great Black Dragon River that separates China and Siberia and is known in the West as the Amur River, brush cutter Wang started a wildfire as he was refueling his mechanical brush cutter without waiting for a cool-down period. The fire spread out of control, and burned together with other fires in the area that had been seen by satellites, but not reported to forestry officials. It eventually burned more than 3 million acres, and killed 220 people. The Chinese Red Army was brought in to suppress it, but the General in command was unable to control the fire, and consequentially was relieved of command and sentenced to time in jail for his failure.

The investigation of the 1994 South Canyon Fire in the US State of Colorado that killed 14 firefighters found that local fire managers had failed to follow their own rules and policies, but no one was held accountable, and some even received cash awards for their actions during that fire season.

Australia’s “Linton Fire” in December 1998 resulted in the death of 5 volunteer firefighters from Victoria’s Country Fire Authority (CFA). A “Coronial Inquest” was held to review all the events and facts (the equivalent of a US Grand Jury Investigation), involving over 100 witnesses, more than 17 lawyers, and thousands of pages of testimony. It was the longest running and largest “Coronial” in Australia’s history at that time, but no one was charged with mis-conduct or went to jail.

And then, in July 2003 during the Cramer Fire above Idaho’s Salmon River, 2 U.S. Forest Service helicopter rappellers were burned over and died on a “Type III” (Extended Initial Attack) fire on their home forest. Three (3) separate investigations were conducted: one, by the USFS; another by the US Department of Agriculture’s Office of Inspector General (parent organization of the USFS); and a third by the US Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), which is required by law to look at any fatality of Federal employees.

As a result of these investigations, the USFS decided to take “administrative actions” against some of their employees, ranging from letters of reprimand to termination of employment. Although it has been more than 18 months since the fatalities, most of those “administrative actions” have not been resolved within the USFS.

OSHA found the USFS liable for 5 Violations ( 3 “Serious”, 1 “Willful” and 1 “Repeat”).

But in my opinion, the most significant actions resulting from the Cramer Fire fatalities are those taken by the U.S. Attorney in Boise, Idaho: they explored, based on the findings of the 3 investigations as well as information that they had gathered, bringing CRIMINAL charges against the Incident Commander based on his actions, and the resulting deaths of the 2 helicopter rappellers. A news release in early December 2004 announced that a pre-trial agreement had been reached: The IC lost his job with the US Forest Service and would be on Federal Probation for 18 months.

Fighting wildland fires is a curious mix of science and art in a rapidly changing environment, with an often-unknown combination of factors determining what occurs. Since my 1st wildfire suppression action in the mid-1960’s, I’ve never been 100% sure that all my actions and reactions were absolutely correct and “by-the-book”. And the “book” keeps getting thicker and more complex every year! It’s relatively easy for an outsider, with weeks and months of time, to review the decisions I had to make in seconds or minutes, compare them against the hundreds of pages of direction found in the Fireline Handbook, the “Red Book”, the Incident Response Pocket Guide, and various Training Manuals that cover the past 40 years, and find errors in my judgment or decision-making. Does that make my conduct criminal?

Throughout my entire career, I’ve been blessed to never have a firefighter seriously hurt or killed while working under my direction. But, I’d be a fool to think that this was all the result of nothing but skill, ability and experience: pure, dumb blind luck has kept me, and the firefighters who have worked with me, out of harm’s way more than once - and out of the US Attorney’s gunsight. For that, I’m eternally grateful!

So, where do the Extended Attack IC’s for the 21st Century stand after the actions of the US Attorney in Boise? Are they going to risk their careers, homes and jail time to take charge of fires that are threatening to burn out of control into valuable natural resources and or into residential areas? How about Initial Attack IC’s? What about Prescribed Burn bosses who knowingly and willingly light fires in the woods?

I’ve got this new-found fear that wildland fire has entered onto a “slippery slope” that we won’t find it easy to get off of in the coming years, and that the fallout from the Cramer Fire will ripple throughout the wildland fire community world-wide, resulting in fewer and fewer folks willing to take the personal risks required to be an IC on a wildfire or prescribed burn. If that happens, the land and the public that we serve will suffer the consequences.

Maybe a US Attorney will step up and become an IC during a busy fire season.

I'm going out on a limb here and being politically incorrect, I'm
sure.. I guess I have a few questions. Why did the crew go down the road
with Ellreese? Did anyone look at a map and see that it was a dead end
road? You state that Ellreese was incompetent and should have been fired
long before...so why would someone follow an individual that they feel
this way about? Also, I'm curious, Ellreese tried to pass off the IC
position to a couple people that are notably better experienced/qualified
individuals and they turned him down, how much support at that time do you
think he felt?

My biggest question is this...and I will agree with you in that there are
alot of incompetent firefighters out there that are promoted, even those
who can't read or write. But seeing as how this is the culture that the
Forest Service has created, shouldn't the Forest Service be on trial? How
about the supervisors that have given Ellreese passing performance
evaluations, how about those who signed off his task book for Crewboss, IC3
and Div? Ellreese makes it through the system, he's known to have some
faults yet he's continually given positive reinforcement in the way of a
permanent position and qualifications. So when he fails, it's his fault? I
don't follow.

Once again, as it's been said before, this whole mess shouldn't be about
trying to hang an individual that is a product of a faulty system, it
should be the search for the latent failures that led to this terrible
tragedy. If we turn our backs on this situation then a precedent will be
set, a "slippery slope" as Rod Altig put it. This is dangerous, Thom, as
dangerous as pulling your crew off the fireline and not telling the
adjacent forces that you are disengaging.

-Dozershot

Your statement about the crew boss being responsible for the safety of all
of his employees is very true and I won't argue with you about that.
But, where does their responsibility lie with crewmembers that
intentionally disrupt and ignore issued directives? If I remember from
Missoula, you were up in that rockslide for the initial push and roll, then
moved down to the road afterwards (please correct me if I have my facts
wrong. I am just going on what you stated you did at the time at the scene)
Maybe you could enlighten the rest of us welfare employees working for the
big green machine on who made the decision to ride things out there and
why, when the aftermath photos clearly show that the road or even the
sandbar near where the vehicles were parked would have been a hands down
choice to deploy and survive, as most of the rest of the crew did. I think
at one time I even saw pictures of the crew rigs and they survived with
minimal damage.

I have never seen a true unredacted statement that covers the decision
process used by the rockslide squad and would be interested in reading one.

I can't think of any I.C. that I know that is perfect and makes the right
decisions one hundred percent of the time, and that includes myself. My
personal thought on this indictment is that it is going to open the door
for additional suits against more of us if and when we make an error or
someone working for us makes an error.

FMO Joe

I have been totally overwhelmed with the responses I have received to my
letter "30 mile a Agency Slippery Slope". Based on the emails and phone
calls I have gotten, it appears that there are a lot of people that feel
very strongly about what has happened to Ellreese Daniels. I would like to
thank all of you that have responded, and if I haven't sent you a reply,
its due to the magnitude of emails I have received, and not that I am
ignoring you.

The letter that I sent to Dale Bosworth, Chief of the USFS,
Tom Harbour National Director of Fire for the USFS, Linda Goodman R-6
Regional Forester, Ken Snell R-6 Director of Fire Mgmt., all R-6 Forest
Supervisors, and all the Fire Staff's in R-6 has been fairly well received.
I have gotten responses from Dale Bosworth, Tom Harbour, Linda Goodman,
and Ken Snell, along with numerous others. They have all assured me that
they are working on several things to correct this injustice, but due to a
open criminal proceeding, they have not felt that it was appropriate to
comment publicly.

I have been asked (summoned) to the Regional Office to
assist the Regional Fire Director and Regional Forester in drafting a
"White Paper" on this issue on Thursday 1/11/07. We shall see what it has
to say, as we are all waiting for some Regional and National leadership on
this issue. I have also been told that all of the Regional Foresters and
the National Fire group are meeting soon to discuss this issue.

I have seen numerous changes in the fire community since I first started
as a GS-2 grunt, on a district fire crew in 1974, some positive, some not
so positive. Being a member of the wildland fire fighting organization has
been a wonderful career, the places I have seen, the close friendships I
have made on every fire, and those relationships keep getting stronger and
stronger.

There have been numerous people that have sent replies to my letter
asking what they can do to help resolve this issue that's before us. I
think one of the most important things we can do, is to engage in serious
discussions within our local Forest, Regional and National arenas, talking
with our Line Officers/ Agency Administrators, Cooperators , and others to
come up with a solution. There are also avenues to try and repeal the
Cantwell legislation. The fire community has always had a " Can Do "
attitude, and I feel very strongly that we can weather this storm and
effect some change within our organizations. We need to be there to support
Ellreese Daniels through this difficult time that's in front of him.

Another thing we need to continue to do is mentor and provide quality
training experiences for those that are coming up behind us, so that they
have the knowledge and confidence to face all the challenges that lay
before us in the future. So let's look forward to the day that our Agencies
will stand along side of us through thick or thin, 'cause if they fail to do
so, I fear that there won't be anyone to answer the call.

Rod Altig

"To accomplish great things,
we must not only act, but also dream;
not only plan, but also believe"
Anatole France

Casey Judd

Of course we must endeavor to improve the system which asks its employees
to bring order to chaos.

We must always look at the context in addition to human error. But we
cannot turn our backs- nor ignore- the fact that some actions
by incompetent people throughout history border on the criminal. Their
actions went well beyond simply failing to understand the feedback of the
situation. When all the variables were taken into account, many
individuals throughout history have proven that they were motivated by
elements of their own personal situation that had nothing to do with the safety
and well being of their subordinates. To General Custer it was arrogance and
his personal need to position himself for the Presidency which led to the slaughter
of his command at the Battle of Little Big Horn. Yes- we can talk about his
tactical blunders and the nuts and bolts of what happened on that day back
in 1876, but the essence of this tragedy was personal arrogance. The
Department of the Army gave Custer a great deal of "tactical discretion",
but without mastery of self, this discretion failed to serve Custer well.
You noted that "we need to focus on examining the system, the bureaucracy,
enabling policies, and the physical environment in order to find the root
causes of the problem. FIND the problem and solve it, not prosecute
individuals or add to Watch Out lists".

I can tell you what the problem is in these fatality fires. The problem is
that firefighters are caught in the wrong place at the wrong time by a head
fire that kills them.

The factors which define wrong place usually involve being above and or in
front of a rapidly advancing flame front. The factors which define wrong
time usually involve being in an area without a sound escape route/safety
zone at a time when the humidity and fuel moisture's are at their lowest
and the temperature and wind are at their highest.

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here (I was born one) but it seems to me
that if we use our heads, we might be able to place ourselves in the right
place at the right time and reinforce our chances of a safe outcome if we
add sound escape routes and safety zones to this equation. If you don't
want to die in a fire shelter -maintain a sound anchor, flank, establish
LCES and know your limitations. I agree- firefighters shouldn't be
worrying about liability- so quit worrying and do your job according to the
scope of your abilities and qualifications.

Still Crazy After All These Years