Hazards of Drip Torches (& Fusees)

[abercrombie]

From the Ab account:

I have a story about the hazards of drip fuel.

I started taking the top off the torch and VERY CAREFULLY, was dumping the rest of the fuel on the pile.

Others started doing the same, until one person jerked back when the flames went poof and spilled some on
his leg. He started running but soon realized he had better start rolling. Someone was there to throw dirt and
it resulted in only minor burns.

But, realize drip fuel and gas is the last thing you want on your clothing as a firefighter!

William Riggles

[abercrombie]

From theysaid:

One more comment about the hazards of drip torches. Many years ago I was with a crew burning large clear-cuts on the Olympic National Forest. We had finished lighting and were at the at the bottom of a very steep unit. One of the crew members took the top off his torch and threw the unused fuel onto a burning log. He didn't want to pack the extra weight back to the top of the unit. Just as the fuel poured out a swirling ember flew into the open torch and caused a mini explosion. He was very lucky and only received a small second degree burn on his arm where his glove met his shirt sleeve and a singed eyebrow. (And this was long before Nomex was invented.)

Just a reminder to everyone that drip torches (and fusees) can be just as dangerous as any other tool we use.

AK Old Timer

[SLEDGE]

Here's one on a Fusee mishap from Ab's Lessons Learned posts:

http://www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/...ad.php?t=12360

Message is Wear your PPE.

[rocksteady]

Have seen this sort of thing many times.....

IMHO, the critical part of the equation is the fuel mix....

I always mix it 3 parts diesel (or Jet A/B) and 1 part gasoline....Too much gas, too flashy....Too much diesel and poor ignition.....


Temperature also plays a key role, very cold temperature, vapours pool, especially when igniting piles....And then WHOOMP !!!

[ksengb]

Not trying to change the subject here, because this is good safety information, but reminded me of another question I've had related to fuel on fire lines, and that is with sawyers. It seems that you can usually pick out the sawyer on a crew, as they are the ones whose shirts and chaps (at least) are thoroughly saturated with fuel. This seems risky, yet I'm not sure I've seen a report of a sawyer bursting into flames from it, or being more severely injured in a burnover situation. Has there been such an issue? Is there a good way to mitigate this hazard short of changing clothes several times a day? Mods, if this doesn't fit appropriately in this thread, feel free to move it to another...


Ab Note: Fine to have this here in the mix.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by ksengb

shirts and chaps (at least) are thoroughly saturated with fuel. This seems risky, yet I'm not sure I've seen a report of a sawyer bursting into flames from it, or being more severely injured in a burnover situation.

Ab Note: Fine to have this here in the mix.

Since gasoline evaporates fair quick, there is little or no risk of bursting into flames....

Chain oil requires a higher temperature and longer exposure to ignite....

I have never seen it cause problems......

I would think there would be more risk of a rash/irritation to the persons skin from direct contact with the fuel or oil...

[William Riggles]

If you are trying to light piles go heavy on the diesel, if you are trying to broadcast flame burning grass, give it some gas.

If you are trying to get a stubborn pile lit, the more diesel the better because all the heat stays on the wood instead of burning up in the air as vapor.
~~~~~~~
I have to agree with gas drying out, I've had several occasions when gas spilled all over my shoulder. You could put a match to it and it would not light, true; but it is MORE flammable when it's oily.

[William Riggles]

How many people have started a fire with saw gas?

What do you do when the first soaking doesn't do the job?

If you saw someone ready to pour gas out of the can, would you stop them?

There is always someone out there proving Darwin right!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~
You might be smart and use a little container and pour just enough for one shot, which you carefully pour on the fire so you don't splash, holding the container so that when it catches fire it's empty and all you have to do is drop it and put you hand out too while you are at it.

If you are not afraid of getting a little burnt you can play with fire and probably live through it.

These guys did.

[abercrombie]

Someone sent this in...


Interagency Transport guide for gas, fuel, diesel...

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/fueltran/guidance/index.htm (password: t-d)

[rez-ff]

Originally Posted by ksengb

Not trying to change the subject here, because this is good safety information, but reminded me of another question I've had related to fuel on fire lines, and that is with sawyers. It seems that you can usually pick out the sawyer on a crew, as they are the ones whose shirts and chaps (at least) are thoroughly saturated with fuel. This seems risky, yet I'm not sure I've seen a report of a sawyer bursting into flames from it, or being more severely injured in a burnover situation. Has there been such an issue? Is there a good way to mitigate this hazard short of changing clothes several times a day? Mods, if this doesn't fit appropriately in this thread, feel free to move it to another...


Ab Note: Fine to have this here in the mix.

The area of concern is not the fuel/oil itself, but rather the long term effects it will have on the Nomex. Nomex will begin to fail (char) around 833 degrees, and will continue to burn only when there is direct flame contact. Nomex is engineered to self extinguish once the flame is removed. The continued exposure to the chemicals will severely degrade its inherent ability to self extinguish, and thus support a continued burning process.

The easiest path of mitigation has two options. The first option is to issue 2-3 Nomex shirts/coats so they can be properly laundered. (not likely) The second option is to regularly clean you gear. I know and understand the challenges of cleaning your PPE while on a fire, however by simply hand washing (rinsing) your gear at the end of your work period will prolong the life of your PPE as well as reducing your personal exposure levels. As we are now learning of the tremendous amount of chemical exposures wildland fire fighters are being exposed to, anything you can to do reduce your personal exposure now will pay dividends in retirement.

Stay Safe!