Compiled by Mellie (03/03/01)
Please note that this list of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) was created
for the MEL Madness hiring that occurred last spring, 2001. All questions
regarding the schedule of MEL hiring are out of date. Fire jobs are still being
offered and people are still being hired. Please see the series 462 and 455
pages for specific federal job listings and the Jobs Page for other jobs
offered. As hiring picks up over the winter months, more questions will come in
to wlf.com and I'll try to find answers to them. Mellie. (08/06/01)
- I haven't done this application process before and I'm trying to
learn more. Where can I find information on how to apply
for FS fire jobs online?
- I'm applying for a FS fire job for the first time. How
do I do it?
- What is the schedule for applying and hiring?
Any tips on the process?
- What are certs?
- When should I get a confirmation letter?
When should I call to ask about it?
- I got my confirmation letter. When will I be
called if I am selected? How can I make it easy for them to reach me? Is
there anything else I should do?
- How do forests within a region decide
who they gets an applicant if more than one forest wants that
person?
- Will I get only one job offer per round?
- I wasn't offered a job in Round 1. Do I need to
reapply for Round 2?
- I turned down a job offer in Round 1. Do I need to
reapply for Round 2?
- I accepted a job in Round 1, then declined it. Do I
need to reapply for Round 2?
- I accepted a permanent job in Round 1 but haven't decided. I also
had an application in for a seasonal job. Is that still valid or do
I need to decline the permanent job and reapply for the seasonal job for
Round 2?
- I wasn't rated as "quality" on the certs. Why? How
do I correct that?
- How do I change my geographic area(s)?
- Which is the best answer on Form C or
which one will look better/ rate higher, D or E?
- I applied for a permanent position before 2/16 for FMO/AFMO/Contracting/Public
Affairs or Computer Specialist. There was a problem with AVUE and getting
scannable Form C. We were given an extension to get Form C in by 2/28. When
I tried to get Form C from Avue, I only got half. How
can I get a the whole thing? Is there a new deadline? When is it?
- What else should I know?
For FS fire jobs, go to http://www.fs.fed.us/fsjobs.
If you're adept at searching a website, you can work through the process of
informing yourself from there.
Note: When typing in urls, use the lower case. When possible, it's better to
copy and paste them so as not to make mistakes. If you come across any acronyms
(like KSAs, FMO, etc) go to our fire
acronyms list and look them up.
To bypass the first pages and menus and find out about positions and
locations in fire that are available, go to www.fs.fed.us/people/employ/asap.
This takes you to a box with the green heading (on the left) that says "Navigation
Menu". Click on the third line, "Locations/Positions".
You can then see what is available on forests in different regions (units).
Click on a region and when that page comes up, scroll down to the blue box and
choose the type of fire position you're interested in (not
"other").
If you don't know anything about the duties associated with the
different kinds of fire suppression positions, scroll down below the "Navigation
Menu" to the red box. Click on the yellow Fire helmet that says
"Jobs". When you get to the Fire Hire page, scroll down to GS-0462
Forestry Aids/Techs GS-2 through GS-7 and look at all the kinds of Fire
Suppression jobs available and descriptions of them.
Before you call anyone, go to the website as described in the previous FAQ
and study up. Then call the Automated Staffing Application Program (ASAP) at
(877) 813-3476. If you let them know you're new at this, they will tell you
what's available in fire, what your options are, and guide you through the steps
of the application process. Apply with a hard copy. ASAP folks take your
address information and send you one, including the very important Form C in
which you rate your knowledge, skills and abilities (KSAs).
If you call ASAP with a particular job announcement number from OPM-USA jobs
list, they might assume you know more than you actually know. Having an idea of
what you want to do is fine, but it's always good to say, "If you were
me and applying for the first time, what questions would you ask?" Get
the expert you're speaking with to put themselves in your novice shoes and tell
you what's important. Then get them to answer those important questions. They
are there to help and want to help.
Don't be put off by a busy phone signal. Start early before any deadlines and
keep trying. You will get through. (Find a phone with a redial button and
sit there with cup of coffee and a good book and punch it until you have
success.) The ASAP folks want the best people to be hired for the jobs that are
available. They can't help it if a lot of people want and need to talk with
them.
There are three kinds of fire hires (D001, M002, T003) with multiple rounds
of hiring going on simultaneously (Beyond these three, ASAP also deals with one
more category that is non-fire --T004). To see the overlapping schedule
for the three fire groups, click MELmadness.
Note that dates in the later rounds (*) may be pushed back due to unforeseen
delays and problems in earlier rounds. The schedule tells you the last day
that offers can be made in each round. I will try to keep the schedule current.
After you apply you should call up the supervisors on the forests where you
want to work and let them know their job is your first choice. You might also
alert your second and third choices. It helps if they can pick you out of a
stack of applicants.
Cert lists apply only to permanent fire positions, not to temporary.
The "cert" is a certificate of eligibility, or certificate of eligible
candidates for permanent positions, presented by the personnel people (or
classification specialists) to the "hiring authority" (the
person/forest who gets to pick). As a permanent-job applicant -- you might
be on a cert (hopefully), but the list belongs to the person who certified it
and the person who's going to use it to choose the ones who get the job
offers.
To find out if you're on the cert for a particular permanent job, call the
forest where you're interested in working and ask whether you are on the cert,
and whether you're rated on the quality list or just the eligible list. Forest
numbers or contact numbers can be found if you go to the navigation
table and choose the location option.
You may get a confirmation letter right away if you apply near the deadline
-- or you may not get one for 6 weeks if you applied long before the deadline
and the ASAP staff is focused on hiring another group. (They have priorities to
meet and are dealing with many categories of hires simultaneously.) For example,
seasonals (box two on the MELmadness
schedule may have gotten their applications in by Jan 15 and may still not have
received their confirmation letters. This is why. At that time, ASAP was busy
focusing on the Permanent MEL hires. Now they're focusing on the NON-FIRE hires.
The seasonals' turn will come up again about March 15.
On the MELmadness
schedule, the last week before certs expire in your particular category of hire
is a critical time when you should make yourself available for a phone call
from the forest(s) where you'd like to work. Be sure supervisors there
know of your interest and have a current phone number where you can be
reached.
The hiring process (at least for Round 1) goes from highest grade (GS and
tour of duty) and works downward to lowest in each specialty "group"
being selected. The "group" order was as follows:
- Helitack
- Suppression crews
- Engine crews
- Prevention
- Lookouts
- Dispatch
- Helishots
- Hotshots
- Smokejumpers
- Fuels
This means that if an applicant is being considered by two forests, the forest
with the best offer in the most needed specialty group gets first pick. If you
apply for helitack and engine crew with equal GS ratings and tours, you'd better
be ready to move to the helitack location if they want you, even if the engine
crew position is on your home forest. Another case: if an applicant is being
considered by two forests, the forest with the best offer gets first pick. For
example, if forest 1 has a GS-7 18/8 tour, and forest 2 has a GS-7 PFT
(permanent full time) tour and you are the top selection for both forests, then
forest 2 gets to make the offer because their offer is the best by tour
standards. But, if forest 1 and forest 2 are offering the same grade and same
tour, then theoretically the choice is up to the applicant. (I say theoretically
because this wasn't the case for at least one person I know).
(If the order of the groups changes, will someone let us know?)
Yes. Since forests within each region decide among themselves and then
regions decide between themselves, there can be only one job offer at most
per person per round.
No, you do not.
You should make sure that ASAP has your application. You should also find out
whether you're on the cert list and whether you're rated as "quality"
or "eligible". To do that, call the forest you're interested in
working on. If you think your rating is wrong, look below to see what you can do
about that.
(If you are one of the quality people who was notified by Boise in Round 1
that you are quality but who then got lost due to the database problem, you are
automatically back in Round 2.)
No, you do not. When you turned down the job in Round 1, that took you out of
Round 1. Your name/application goes back into the pool for Round 2.
Yes, you do. When you accepted the job in Round 1, that took you out of all
future consideration.
Yes, if you must decline, decline the permanent job and reapply for seasonal.
When you accepted the job in Round 1, that took you out of all future
consideration in any category of hire. And be careful that you make any major
changes like this *very nicely*, because accepting a job and then reapplying to
get another job in another round is not polite and can cause those doing the
hiring a lot of grief. If the word gets out that you're a flake, being hired for
any job within fire becomes much more difficult!
Form C is a self-rating on the quality of your KSAs. Those of you with good
experience need to rate yourselves as high as you can.
If you feel that you are "quality" and would like to change your
answers on Form C to reflect that, send an e-mail (fsjobs@fs.fed.us)
or fax (208- 373-4285) with
- your name,
- your announcement number (D001, M002 or T003),
- your social security number (not absolutely required), and
- the list of the responses (bubble dots) you want to change (For example
say: On Section 17, #2, I'd like you to fill in the E and erase the C. Make
as many changes as you need to so your experience is accurately reflected in
your application. MAKE SURE YOU RATE YOURSELF AS HIGHLY AS IT'S POSSIBLE AND
STILL BE HONEST. DON'T EXAGGERATE OR INFLATE YOUR EXPERIENCE, BUT DO RATE
YOURSELF AS HIGHLY AS POSSIBLE.
Do this before the deadline for sending in applications for the next round
(see the MELmadness
schedule) to make sure that changes in your application package will be
reflected in how you're rated for the certs. For example, say you applied for
Round 2 Permanent MEL and other positions (top box on the MELmadness schedule)
and you want to change your responses on KSAs. You should do it on or before
March 14 which is the last date that applications can be postmarked. You might
try later, but there are no guarantees.
An example might be: letter D answer is "I have more than 6 months of
full time experience, and more than 24 credit hours of directly related
coursework," and letter E answer on form C is "none of the above
applies in my situation." Which would rate the applicant better? The higher
letter, or the lower letter? (Tisk, tisk, questionnaire makers, the two are not
necessarily mutually exclusive.) Anyway, I haven't got an answer for this. Some
applicants have several years of experience, or maybe a BS in Forestry, or maybe
both. Therefore, letter E applies, but so does letter D. Which one rates out
higher? If anyone figures this one out, please inform us.
On your application, you should only list the geographical codes of
the places where you are willing to live and work. List specific locations.
You do not want code 999. This does not mean you're flexible. It means
you get considered last after everyone else has had a chance at the specific
places/jobs. If you put 999, you should change it NOW to one or more specific
places you'd like to be. You may not want to list as many as the 9 that are
allowed unless you're truly willing to pick up and move to any one of them.
You should know that if you apply to 9 national forests in 2 (or more)
regions, the national forests within regions will decide who gets you first and
then the two (or more) regions will decide who gets you. You may get a call from
one or both forests asking your preference. You may not, if time runs
short.
If you designated 9 locations but would like to change some or reduce the
number, send an e-mail (fsjobs@fs.fed.us)
or fax (208-373-4285) with
- your name,
- your announcement number (D001, M002 or T003),
- your social security number (not absolutely required), and
- the list of locations you want to change. Go to appendix 1 or get these 3
digit codes from the fsjobs website For example, tell them to
"delete this 3-digit unit code for Bighorn NF (WY) -- #018 or to
"change that to some new 3 digit unit code like #039 for Tonto NF
(AZ)".
Here's how to find the three digit location codes for areas/jobs you're
interested in. Go to www.fs.fed.us/people/employ/asap.
Go down to the green "Navigation Menu" and go to the third line
"Locations/Positions". Click. Scroll down to the big Regions
("Units") Table. Choose the region of interest and click the
appropriate cell under "Sites". This links to a list of forests
with their three digit "unit code" for location. Simple. (Yeah,
right.) But if you do this, you can expedite your process (with ASAP) of
changing your locations, and potentially reduce errors.
Do this before the deadline for sending in applications for the next round
(see the MELmadness
schedule) to make sure that the changes in your locations will be reflected in
your application in time for consideration. For example, say you applied for
Round 2, Permanent MEL and other positions (top box on the MELmadness Schedule)
and you want to change the locations. You should do it on or before March 14
which is the last date that applications can be postmarked. You might try later,
but there are no guarantees.
I applied for a permanent position before 2/16
for FMO, AFMO, Contracting/Public Affairs or Computer Specialist. There was a
problem with AVUE and getting a scannable Form C. We were given an extension to
get Form C in by 2/28. When I tried to get Form C from AVUE, I only got
half. How can I get a the whole thing? Is there a new deadline? When is it?
If you are a person who got your resume/application in on time (postmarked by
the deadline 2/16) for FMO, etc hiring (third box at end on the MELmadness
schedule and were offered an extension on scannable Form C, because of problems
with AVUE, here is what you do:
The Washington Office is working with this group of hires to get complete
information. Detailers are taking your answers to the scannable form questions
over the phone. They are working over the weekend (3/2-3/4) and possibly beyond
to get your answers entered and scanned. Call one of the following numbers:
(703) 605-5151 or (703) 605-5152 or fax them at (703)605-4948, (703)605-5105, OR
(703)605-5107. They want to get hold of everyone who is missing this
information. Call or fax them! This round may be your best (and only) chance at
these jobs!
Another alternative is to go find the KSAs for those jobs - the OPM website (usajobs)
has the KSAs listed (not for the demo jobs, you have to find the announcement
listed for current fed employees). You can send a hardcopy KSA narrative
addressing all the KSAs for the job. You could probably fax one to the phone
number listed above, too. Rule of thumb: spend about one page per KSA, and it's
okay to use a bit less of a page or a bit more of a page depending on your
strengths/weaknesses for the listed KSAs.
Most applicants who have written in to theysaid have said that this process
has been extremely frustrating. The ground rules were changed several times
throughout the process, and I'm guessing they'll change even more during Round
2. The important thing is to take a deep breath, do your best to sort this out,
and make the best choices possible. Remember that we are all in this together,
doing the best we can with such largess that it's almost overwhelming. If a job
offer is not the one you really want, consider the consequences of turning down
the job, and weigh that against other options you have available. Everyone I
know who has been totally immersed in this process says, "Don't get too
stressed, it's just not worth it." One friend who has had a share of ups
and downs but has maintained a good attitude has said, "Things in life
happen for reasons, even if we can't comprehend what they may be now. Hang on,
it's a wild ride and getting wilder!" I just want to say, "Hats off to
all. Stick with it. Write in if you have more information."
Sent in by Mellie who based this information on conversations with people
at ASAP and others from R3, R4, R5 and R9 involved in the hiring process. For
any corrections, send her e-mail via Ab at abercrombie@wildlandfire.com.
Put "for Mellie" in the subject line and I'll see she gets it.
Ab.
Revised: April 17, 2004 .
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