Wildland Firefighter Foundation
Wildland Firefighter Foundation

Home / WLF TheySaid / Resource Ordering Agency VS Contract

  • 06/25/2016
  • Freshly Salty
  • 2,622 views
  • 14 Comments

Could someone with factual knowledge of this please post. Why would SWCC order and receive bagger T2IA Crews over agency when the orders come in Type 1 Or T2IA? There are many agency crews sitting (Hotshot Crews) and the gacc’s are filling them with contractors. Wouldn’t we put 3rd rate 4th string crews in last with a PL of a 5? Seems ass backwards. Maybe I should have been a meth head and worked for the Methineers. At least I would be getting better hours.

The views expressed are not those of this site, this blog or its affiliated companies. By posting your comments you agree to accept our terms of use.

14 Comments
  1. Mr. Magoo
    June 26, 2016 Reply

    I understand your frustration concern dispatch. However, I take great offense to your comments regarding contract crews! I could make many statements concerning the stereotypes of agency personnel, but the shoe doesn’t fit all so I will bite my tongue as you should as well.

  2. Bandito
    June 27, 2016 Reply

    Salty, statements like that just shows ignorance and gives agency personnel a bad name

  3. Fresly Salty
    June 27, 2016 Reply

    Aside from me hurting your feelings. Fact of the matter is, Hotshots are professionally trained, physically fit and come with good quals / experience to put out a great product for the ordering unit. As do a lot of Agency (USFS,BLM,NPS,FWS) Type 2IA crews. Especially the R-5 Type 2IA crews since the balance of those modules are in fact funded to be an IHC. My frustration is these modules have to sit on the bench while we watch school busses and eco vans roll by with out of shape on call bandanna wearing knuckle heads. Then we have to be lumped on paper as the same with typing. Truth is, we are not the same. Far from it in fact. Bandito- In case you didn’t know, we all make fun of contractors. Always have and always will. You guys are typically the butt of the joke in camp and are easily picked out of the crowd. Your philosophy is everyone gets a trophy. Not everyone can be a hotshot and not everyone belongs on the same piece of ground that we work so hard at academically and physically to be able to say that we are Fire Fighters. Just because you wear a pair of green nomex does not mean you earned the right too.

  4. Your name...
    June 27, 2016 Reply

    In response to the post titled (Resource Ordering Agency VS Contract). First off I would like to state that I have been a Hotshot within Region 5 for a number of years. To the one who posted this post which I specified the title above… If there was a BAGGER it would be yourself to begin with. If you do not have anything pleasant to say please keep it to yourself. There is a reason the GACCS hold onto NATIONAL RESOURCES. Sounds like this BAGGER does not know what I’m talking about

    1. Your name...
      June 27, 2016 Reply

      Apologies on the last sentence from this post, i meant to say: sounds like this BAGGER does not know what he is talking about. Thank you good day

  5. Rayovac Batteries are Terrible
    June 27, 2016 Reply

    Key words- National Resource. Apparently that phase is used very loosely. GACCS don’t hold on to them. They are controlled by NICC. Agency should be first out, then when depleted, ROSS can be used to cover with vper contract crews. It does often seem like we are becoming more privatized. I am leaning more on the poster’s side of things. Until then. Lets Bagger up.

    1. Joe
      June 30, 2016 Reply

      National resources, such as hotshot crews, are only controlled by NICC in a Preparedness Level of 3 or higher, in which case the NMAC group is activated and makes the decisions on movement of these resources. At a 1 or a 2, each GACC has complete control of them.

  6. Bandito
    June 27, 2016 Reply

    Salty I have 20 plus years in Fed Fire Service and still with the Feds but thanks for your concerns of my feelings. Batteries, I tend to agree with you look at R6. The Fed has an inherent duty to Serve the people and protect their land but there are gaccs out there that are known for rat holing resources (NOPS). It scares me when I see regions go that way but Generalizing and stereotyping all contractors is wrong. Salty you might want to try a little professionalism

  7. T. Johnson
    June 28, 2016 Reply

    If you hate the rotation in R5, then leave R5, or get on a Type 2 IA crew.

    NICC is going to spread the type 1 crew orders around to every GACC, and ensure that one GACC doesn’t suck all the type 1 crews up.

    You clearly lack any understanding of the national resource allocation across the various GACC’s.

    If you were a crewmember on my crew with that attitude, you wouldn’t be around long. Here’s a good stereotype for you. I cringe when I get a R5 IHC assigned to my division, or work next to one on the same line. The ones that have ruined it for the rest of you can be thanked. Stereotypes go both ways.

    Just because you wear the shirt, doesn’t mean you understand the core values of an IHC, and deserve to be called a hotshot, which this is also clearly apparent.

  8. Smokey307
    June 28, 2016 Reply

    There is a hotshot attitude. There always has been. I had one as a hot shot 50 years ago. That attitude should be directed to doing well the difficult and dangerous job you were hired and trained to do. Professional hotshot attitude is always quiet, it doesn’t need to be spoken, it is not condescending, it does not put down other types of crews because all are important, if anything it seeks to bring other crews up to their level rather than put them down. I don’t know if that attitude was in play on the Yarnell Fire but I know it was on the 1966 Loop Fire. The crew in question sort of lorded it over other crews including other hotshot crews. Sometimes that too high level of confidence blinds a crew to safety concerns. That did happen on a hotshot crew on the Loop Fire in 1966 and I lost 12 brother hotshots. I know this because I was on a hotshot crew where our Superintendent refused the same assignment. Professional hotshot attitude is humble and giving. Even if you were the hardest working crew person I had, I would consider letting you go. What you say is poison to a crew and the crew is much more important than any one individual. I hope you heed my counsel because it would be too bad to lose an otherwise good crewman

  9. ofg
    June 29, 2016 Reply

    Salty,
    The only reply you need make is “Lesson needed. Lesson learned. Thanks to the seasoned vets for your counsel.”

  10. Agreed
    June 30, 2016 Reply

    While is tone his harsh and a generalization he is mostly correct. While a few contact handcrews are good the great deal of them are not. I started in contracting, went to a district, went to a region 1 ihc, and am now in aviation. Lots of people leave contracting after figuring out they can move up. I find it ridiculous that when the NPL is at a 2 contract crews that cost quite a bit more than an ihc are called in. It’s important to still treat contractors with respect as they are fellow firefighters doing a job. However there are stark differences when it comes to performance, phyical fitness and professionalism.

  11. mike meyers
    July 9, 2016 Reply

    hey salty As a R6 engine contractor I staff my equip with several Former IHC members, Smoke jumpers type 3 IC, former AFMO and several former USFS/BLM district crew members.I was also a former R6 hotshot squad boss for several years Not all crews are created equal that is true. Careful what you say you could be one some day.

  12. Red Book
    August 13, 2016 Reply

    Why don’t you look in it, original poster?

Leave a comment
*